Micro 1061: If Trees Could Scream [Game Over]

[Vanderscamp]

FIRST

[Vanderscamp]

It's too early in the morning to think of something funny to say so just pretend I did

[Vanderscamp]

Wagons are a good way. How about a Don Draper one?

Are you the other arsonist?

Titus and Ircher are my current guess for scum.

Is the ircher read serious?

[Vanderscamp]

I see that it is.
Is there some history between you two where Ircher frequently goes after you as scum?

[Vanderscamp]

If not Draper, how about Porkens?

Why not Draper?

[Vanderscamp]

Why is that a reason to not wagon there?

[Vanderscamp]

VOTE: Ircher for your avoidance of conflict

[Vanderscamp]

PSA:

REMEMBER TO STOP, DROP AND ROLL. ALSO, IRCHER IS AT E-1.

Seen

[Vanderscamp]

I see that it is.
Is there some history between you two where Ircher frequently goes after you as scum?

There isn’t but suggesting a wagon on me for literally no reason is hella scummy don’t you think?

No.

[Vanderscamp]

VOTE: Don Draper

I expect more.

VOTE: Titus

Day literally just started and you yourself noted the stump mechanic, so dislike your reasoning.

What does the stump mechanic have to deal with my expectations for you? Even now, you aren't doing much. Your two scumreads happen to be the two people voting you.

What do you expect me to be doing at this early stage ib the game and how is it in anyway unusual for me to be suss on anyone who either votes or advocates wagonong me for no good reason? This makes me even more confident on this read because you know there is nothing unusual about my reaction.

I feel like there's always one player each game who hard OMGUSes an RVS vote, so I don't think your reaction is super scummy, but I also just don't really get the perspective.

If someone suggested wagoning someone else would you still hate it or is it just because it's you?

[Vanderscamp]

BE ALERT! VOTE: DON DRAPER EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED. BE FIRE SAFE.

bad vote Smokey.

I definitely believe you’re not Pooky now because he actually has reads that are good.

What do you think you've done that should make anyone get a read on you?

[Vanderscamp]

BE ALERT! VOTE: DON DRAPER EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED. BE FIRE SAFE.

Nooooo why back off the e-1? That was good pressure stride

I agree

[Vanderscamp]

Herta, Porkens, Titus and Vanderscamp has 2 Arsonists.

Interesting. I could see arsonist!Titus possible naked voting a buddy like that but I’d want to heat more. What do you dislike about Vanderscamp?

He’s obviously incorrect to characterize Titus’ vote on me as rvs but I think Titus is extremely likely to be scum because she tends to be a lot less tunnelled as town, especially this early. She pushed a town pr really hard in some game where she was scum in a game with town!Math, so this is more likely than not, her scum meta here.

Yeah I think I was conflating Ircher's comment on you which you also responded negatively to.
In my mind it's fairly similar, it's more the sentiment of hard omgusing someone super early and creating this death tunnel which I don't find super productive.

[Vanderscamp]

Vanderscamp is just being reasonable and asking questions, not really towny or scummy, but the vote on Ircher looked a bit quick to me, I don't think Ircher is an Arsonist

Why not?
I can buy not agreeing with me but I can't imagine why anyone would have a town read there. I think Ircher is easily the scummiest person in the thread atm for seeing what Don Draper was doing to anyone who expressed any kind of suspicion on them at all and then just backing out.
To me that implies the wagon was less important to Ircher than how they are perceived in thread.

[Vanderscamp]

I think Titus is scummier than Don and they're pretty clearly not together. But I could def see this as town vs town

[Vanderscamp]

Vanderscamp is just being reasonable and asking questions, not really towny or scummy, but the vote on Ircher looked a bit quick to me, I don't think Ircher is an Arsonist

Why not?
I can buy not agreeing with me but I can't imagine why anyone would have a town read there. I think Ircher is easily the scummiest person in the thread atm for seeing what Don Draper was doing to anyone who expressed any kind of suspicion on them at all and then just backing out.
To me that implies the wagon was less important to Ircher than how they are perceived in thread.

Ircher has some familiarity with my meta, so I’m currently on the fence about that and who exactly is “anyone”? Ircher only advocated wagonnong me after Titus made that ridiculous vote on me. One player /= ANYONE.

When Ircher talked about doing a different wagon you had called the two people who put any pressure on you at all the scum team, for the reason that they had put pressure on you.

If Titus flipped scum right now I'd think the interaction makes Ircher look slightly better but I don't think it's obvious.

[Vanderscamp]

BE ALERT! VOTE: DON DRAPER EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED. BE FIRE SAFE.

bad vote Smokey.

I definitely believe you’re not Pooky now because he actually has reads that are good.

What do you think you've done that should make anyone get a read on you?

My point is that Pooky’s very good at reading me.

So what have you done that you think Pooky should read you correctly for?

[Vanderscamp]

Herta, Porkens, Titus and Vanderscamp has 2 Arsonists.

I'll give you Vanderscamp as possible scum here. Hard to explain but I don't like their posturing and they were on the fast Ircher wagon. Feels like they want anyone and are floating.

This is quite a scummy take; I want specifically Ircher and I think I've done a pretty good job explaining why, and I haven't even voted anywhere else.

[Vanderscamp]

BE ALERT! VOTE: DON DRAPER EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED. BE FIRE SAFE.

Nooooo why back off the e-1? That was good pressure stride

SO DOES THIS POST MAKE PORKENS TREE GOOD OR BAD?

I can’t say, I’m currently nullreading them but I don’t like Ircher being at E-1. In SS’ game, a player was put to e-1 and self-hammered on d1, they were town. Early day 1 flashwagons more than not tend to be town. I don’t see any reason to rush the vote regardless.

Although I had no intent on voting Ircher, I feel like we got info from it. Regardless of Ircher's alignment, likely one scum in it.

Can you explain this, if you haven't already?

[Vanderscamp]

I think Titus is scummier than Don and they're pretty clearly not together. But I could def see this as town vs town

Yeah, Vanderscamp is the partner.

Sign seal deliver.

Willing to do either today.

Lol ok

[Vanderscamp]

Probably out for a bit

[Vanderscamp]

If there’s a world where Titus is actually moonlogicy tunnelled town here. then I probably wouldn’t trust their reads in much. I don’t really have an opinion on Vanderscamp yet. I previously played with him in Koba’s neighbour game. Yes, I’m Loki.

I THINK NOT HAVING AN OPINION MIGHT BE THE KIND OF TREE THE ARSONIST APPEARS TO BE

I MEAN, "DIFFICULT-TO-FORM-AN-OPINION-ON" MIGHT BE THE TREE TO AXE RIGHT NOW

People really suck at reading me early game so I wouldn't read too much into this

[Vanderscamp]

HEY MISTRESS DO YOU WANT TO DOGPILE ON VANDER? I AM RUNNING OUT OF SUSPECTS. IM DOWN TO VANDER AND PORKENS.

I thought you wanted Porkens.....explain why you now prefer Vander

I DON'T PREFER EITHER I SUSPECT BOTH NOW THROUGH POE. TITUS IS DOWN FOR VANDER SO I ASK DON X MISTRESS BECAUSE IF BOTH WANT THEN IT'S EASIER TO PUSH THROUGH.

I'd reevaluate your process for coming to this POE.

Herta in particular, wtf has that slot done to seem town?

[Vanderscamp]

HEY MISTRESS DO YOU WANT TO DOGPILE ON VANDER? I AM RUNNING OUT OF SUSPECTS. IM DOWN TO VANDER AND PORKENS.

I thought you wanted Porkens.....explain why you now prefer Vander

I DON'T PREFER EITHER I SUSPECT BOTH NOW THROUGH POE. TITUS IS DOWN FOR VANDER SO I ASK DON X MISTRESS BECAUSE IF BOTH WANT THEN IT'S EASIER TO PUSH THROUGH.

Titus is sus though. Don't you agree that Enchant/Herta are bad scumreads?

IM NOT CONVINCED TITUS IS SUS THOUGH. IF SHE IS FIGHTING WITH NANCY TO CREATE DRAMA IT CAN BACKFIRE AND IS LOT OF WORK. MORE LIKELY PARANOID TOWN.

IF U R TALKING ABOUT PORKENS, PORKENS ALSO WANTED IRCHER BEFORE THAT. SO THEY WANT IRCHER THEN ENCHANT/HERTA. NOT A GOOD LOOK.

The first paragraph is also my reasoning on Ircher.
Ircher saw what was happening with Titus/Don and immediately noped out of that.
So why is Ircher town?

[Vanderscamp]

HEY MISTRESS DO YOU WANT TO DOGPILE ON VANDER? I AM RUNNING OUT OF SUSPECTS. IM DOWN TO VANDER AND PORKENS.

Vanderscamp doesn’t sound really completely different here than in the neighbour game. He also gave me __ in that for omgussing nearly every player who sr me. I would really like to discuss with Auro his Ircher read before I do anything. I’m still not convinced that Titus is this bad at reading me.

Were we both town in that game?

I think you're probably the towniest person in the thread but if I really did give you shit for OMGUSing in that game and you were town there then that makes you even townier.

[Vanderscamp]

I think scum is more likely to have an agenda.

MY OPINION IS THAT VANDER HAS AN AGENDA IN THIS GAME, THEY ARE JUST TRYING TO HIDE IT. I BELIEVE PORKENS-VANDER IS AT LEAST 50%.

PEDIT:

I NOT SHEEP, I LISTEN. I HAVE POE LOCKDOWN ON PORKENS AND VANDER.

He also gave me __ in that for omgussing nearly every player who sr me.

MAYBE THIS IS A CLUE

???

How so, he had no way to know I’m Loki until I actually outed it.

WE KNOW HE SHOW AGGRESSION AS TOWN

I'm pretty confused what you're trying to say here

[Vanderscamp]

I didn't say Huerta was scum. I doubt they are. I just don't have enough to declare a townread yet.

Vander is poking around the sidelines. His post on you v me was very bad. He didn't say we were t v t. He said it was possible. His post was designed to flip me first before flipping you. It made it clear he really doesn't want to flip you, yet he doesn't want to call you town.

The charade is pushing me as scum.

You STILL have no analysis. No thought process beyond someone voting you is scum.

Yeah I think you could be t v t or t v s.

I do think Don is town and I don't like the things you have said recently that I've commented on (your read on me trying to get any wagon and your analysis of the Ircher voters)
I vaguely like your confidence that I am scum but overall I sr you.

If I really wanted to flip you both, I would not be advocating that it's very possibly t v t, I'd say something like "yeah Don, I agree with you that Titus is not this bad at reading you, which makes me think one of you is scum," but I don't actually think this is the case so I'm not saying it.

[Vanderscamp]

I'M STARTING TO COME AROUND TO SCUM TITUS

I'm waffling on Titus.

At this stage I'd probably rather flip a random person who hasn't said much of substance like porkens or herta because I'm giving credence to the fact that Titus is choosing to engage in a battle with someone, but I also have questions about his analysis. In particular I don't understand coming to the conclusion that the Ircher wagon contains scum regardless of Ircher's alignment and am very keen to hear his reasoning.

[Vanderscamp]

The above meaning that I would rather flip a lurkerish null than Titus but not more than Ircher.

I like Don and bear, and mild town on furtive.

[Vanderscamp]

Well Vander hasn't been here for ages and has little attention to detail.

1) Vander is not familiar with me.

A) He used male pronouns for me repeatedly. I am a woman.
B) He doesn't appear to know I do wagonomics.

2) He doesn't have attention to detail because my pronouns are listed with every post.

That forces me to consider the possibility that I misattributed a level of precision and deliberateness due to Vander playing nearly as long as I have.

Sorry for the misgendering, Titus is a fairly common male name in Germany so I just used male by default.

I've played something like 600 games total across sites since about my registration date, but only about 10 on this site and am pretty unfamiliar with specific player meta.

[Vanderscamp]

I didn't say Huerta was scum. I doubt they are. I just don't have enough to declare a townread yet.

Vander is poking around the sidelines. His post on you v me was very bad. He didn't say we were t v t. He said it was possible. His post was designed to flip me first before flipping you. It made it clear he really doesn't want to flip you, yet he doesn't want to call you town.

The charade is pushing me as scum.

You STILL have no analysis. No thought process beyond someone voting you is scum.

If you actually believe this and are actually not bsing me, then you’re clearly not reading. And where’s YOUR analysis on us? I’m still waiting.

If we’re actually wrong on you, you thus far have given me no reason to think so and you continuing to insist we’re scum when if anyone I would expect to be correctly reading us here is YOU, is not doing anything to change my mind.

I know you read me wrong in Anything uPick but I attributed that to Cheeky but here you’re actually reading ME wrong and you haven’t done that in like forever.

I have detailed almost every post with a reach out and my expectations if you were town, only to get shot down each time. When I suspect town!Nancy, town!Nancy engages on my reads. Town!Nancy does more than OMGUS.

Despite me putting out multiple reasoned reads, I get zero questions or reasoned reads from you.

Then you’re not reading

. I honestly can’t tell anymore if you’re seriously this tunnelled you are missing the obvious or you’re scum but I know what you’re saying isn’t true but what I’m not sure is if you actually believe what you’re saying or not. I don’t agree with your reads especially the one on me obviously, so I don’t even understand what you’re talking about anymore. I’m telling you I’m town here. Whether or not you choose to believe that or not is no longer my concern. I feel like engaging with you any further would be about as productive as watching pain dry because you literally aren’t listening to anything I’m saying and everyone else in the thread can see what you’re saying about me is wrong, so you’re either not reading my posts or you’re scum because I don’t understand why you keep saying the things you are otherwise?

This feels real

[Vanderscamp]

I love Don as town

I think I will also take Titus as town




I still like an Ircher kill but wtf is horte doing in town circles
Ez sleeper scum slot

[Vanderscamp]

Meta sucks though

It does but it's there whether we like it or not

[Vanderscamp]

We're back on!

I was worried it was just on my end!

[Vanderscamp]

VOTE: Bear

If we aren't limming the whining player, then let's go after the sheep stirring up drama and sneaking his vote.

Why?

[Vanderscamp]

Sorry, will catch up soon

[Vanderscamp]

Scum will favor lurker pushes here. Lurkers are more likely to give up if miseliminated. Only if scum can't get a lurker will they push active people. Hence why I FoS Bear there.

Do you think Scrrrdbear 'couldn't get' Enchant/Porkens? I'm still voting Porkens

Not without yelling and dominating. There's also the fact that Enchant is obvtown. Do you really expect Bear to be able to push a case where little to no evidence exists and there's meta evidence for town Enchant?

Porkens might be an easier sell but still would require a dramatic shift.

Third, hard pushing a lurker might draw them to play. Scum want lurkers to lurk.

What's the meta evidence for town enchant?
I don't have them as town.

[Vanderscamp]

Why don't the arsonists have a faction name?

Imo i know it's on level of insane telling, but it's probably real arsonist will not ask, because these REALLY draw hate, for reasoning that that's what arsonists asks to be as most distant with role mentally.

I like this read

[Vanderscamp]

Yeah, I'm still happy going on Ircher, porkens is fine if not

[Vanderscamp]

Why am I your top town?

[Vanderscamp]

Scum theatre?

For serious?

[Vanderscamp]

I have to be able to call a spade a spade. That's reality.

Anyway, Herta's last post looks rather tmi.

VOTE: Herta

Very much agree

[Vanderscamp]

I will vote ircher Titus or porkens.

This is my list except swapping you for Titus.

Nothing is really happening to make me change my mind on the general consensus being a good one, recent posts make me like porkens less

[Vanderscamp]

@Ircher, who do you sr other than Titus and who are your townreads?

~Nancy

From town to scum:

Ircher
Vanderscamp
SCRRRDBEAR
Don Draper x Mistress (hydra of Nancy Drew 39 and Auro)
furtiveglance
Enchant
Porkens
Herta
Titus

If ircher scum I'd look at furtivegalance draper or enchant as partner so I don't think ircher as scummy now since I townread those three.

This is the post in question. Are you guys saying Porkens knows Ircher is scum and setting us up while finding a justification to not scumread Ircher without directly townreading Ircher?

Herta, not Porkens.

I don't think Ircher has to be scum, it just sounded like a fake reason to read Ircher as town this early in the game.

[Vanderscamp]

Like, mid to late game I don't mind looking for specific partners on someone and then townreading them when they don't have any valid partners, because there are pretty obvious connections, but this is D1.

[Vanderscamp]

Ok so Herta's TMI is that Ircher is town

Could be either!
The TMI might be that Ircher isn't with any of the remaining players for TMI reasons, but Ircher is still scum with Herta.

[Vanderscamp]

Ok so Herta's TMI is that Ircher is town

Could be either!
The TMI might be that Ircher isn't with any of the remaining players for TMI reasons, but Ircher is still scum with Herta.

The biggest conclusion is probably that the three people that could have been with Ircher but were too towny are all town.

[Vanderscamp]

Ok so Herta's TMI is that Ircher is town

Usually with TMI arguments the player accused has something to gain from townreading town e.g. towncred

But Ircher isn't really close to being voted out or anything.

Is it just that it's a bad reason to townread someone and that's sus?

I don't agree with your first paragraph

[Vanderscamp]

Ok so Herta's TMI is that Ircher is town

Could be either!
The TMI might be that Ircher isn't with any of the remaining players for TMI reasons, but Ircher is still scum with Herta.

Why does scum!Herta make that post though? At any rate my initial sr on Ircher has pretty much taken a nosedive, have no idea what Auro thinks about it.

The same reason any scum gives reads.

[Vanderscamp]

I would be reluctant vote one of non-voters as mafia atleast. It's like death sentence (depends).

Why is it a death sentence?

[Vanderscamp]

Porkens wagon lookin kinda clean thooo

How can you say that after saying this?:

I get the feeling that several of us agree on Porkens/Herta, yet we're kind of stuck on which one to vote first. Maybe it's better to just vote one of them and move on

[Vanderscamp]

The above meaning that I would rather flip a lurkerish null than Titus but not more than Ircher.

I like Don and bear, and mild town on furtive.

FOCUS ON FIRE PREVENTION.

VOTE: TITUS

I don't understand what Vanderscamp is saying and what scrrdbear is doing here.

I was saying that I would rather kill Ircher than a null, but a null over Titus.

[Vanderscamp]

I'd like if everyone answered a question: Do you think any bus votes have happened on any wagon excluding mine? (I know I'm town so I know mine can't be bussing.)

No clue.

[Vanderscamp]

One day to go?

We should kill someone soon, I don't particularly think it should be Titus

[Vanderscamp]

Well I really can’t tell rn if Porkens is scum or checked out town. In my experience, they are usually more obvious as scum but I haven’t played with them in quite awhile. I would expect scum in this game to be trying a bit harder because there’s only two of them.

It concerns me that Porkens isn’t really too worried about the possibility of being run up. Auro hasn’t expressed any concern about them.

It’s obviously not good that they aren’t giving reads but my theory is if Porkens is actually scum their buddy would most likely be bussing them but I think with only two scum, it’s hard to believe that scum would bus on d1 unless they absolutely had too.

I still want that readslist from them but I still am the most suspicious of Titus.

I don't understand your third paragraph at all.

[Vanderscamp]

Actually that’s wrong. I wouldn’t be happy to eliminate anyone. I have preferences of who I’d like to eliminate but they aren’t based on town/scum reads.

Like: Don Draper x Mistress (hydra of Nancy Drew 39 and Auro)
Love: Porkens
Wary: furtiveglance
Impatient: Herta
Enchanted: Vanderscamp
Wary: Ircher
Like: Titus
Wary: Enchant
Tempted: SCRRRDBEAR

I don't really get this, but it shows I guess genuine thoughtfulness rather than the manipulation vibes I'm getting from Titus.

VOTE: titus

Wtf

How can you townread that post?

[Vanderscamp]

I’ll think about it.

Nope, everyone is 50/50

Actually that’s wrong. I wouldn’t be happy to eliminate anyone. I have preferences of who I’d like to eliminate but they aren’t based on town/scum reads.

Like: Don Draper x Mistress (hydra of Nancy Drew 39 and Auro)
Love: Porkens
Wary: furtiveglance
Impatient: Herta
Enchanted: Vanderscamp
Wary: Ircher
Like: Titus
Wary: Enchant
Tempted: SCRRRDBEAR

This is part of it. The timing of these posts show Porkens is thinking about the game. Could be scum, but I think it's enough for Day 1.

VOTE: Herta

This is absurd

The TMI reads continue

[Vanderscamp]

I don't think Titus is super town or anything but at least he's actively engaging in conflict in a game where relatively very few people are doing so.

I think scum are people like Ircher/Herta/Porkens who are just sitting back and chilling and letting Don/Titus waste time with a tunnel on each other.

I think Herta has given multiple really suspect reads and I would love to kill that slot today.

[Vanderscamp]

I’ll think about it.

Nope, everyone is 50/50

Actually that’s wrong. I wouldn’t be happy to eliminate anyone. I have preferences of who I’d like to eliminate but they aren’t based on town/scum reads.

Like: Don Draper x Mistress (hydra of Nancy Drew 39 and Auro)
Love: Porkens
Wary: furtiveglance
Impatient: Herta
Enchanted: Vanderscamp
Wary: Ircher
Like: Titus
Wary: Enchant
Tempted: SCRRRDBEAR

This is part of it. The timing of these posts show Porkens is thinking about the game. Could be scum, but I think it's enough for Day 1.

VOTE: Herta

This is absurd

The TMI reads continue

Explain the tmi here.

There's nothing at all in porkens' post that shows he's thinking about the game.

[Vanderscamp]

I don't think Titus is super town or anything but at least he's actively engaging in conflict in a game where relatively very few people are doing so.

I think scum are people like Ircher/Herta/Porkens who are just sitting back and chilling and letting Don/Titus waste time with a tunnel on each other.

I think Herta has given multiple really suspect reads and I would love to kill that slot today.

Suspect reads as in what you think are wrong reads or suspect reads as in fake reads. If they're wrong reads, so? and if they're fake reads, explain what clues you in to them being fake.

I've talked about this earlier, your post where you say that someone only has three specific scum partners and you townread all three of them, therefore that person is towny, is just way too confident a read that anyone could be making at this point in the game. You have to be confident in so many different things for that read to apply, and it's not like you've been confident enough to be able to push hard against anyone in particular.
I think you're giving out fake good reads.

[Vanderscamp]

What happened to your enchant scum read, Vanderscamp?

I don't remember having much of a read on enchant, it's possible I included them in a list somewhere but ultimately I don't remember much of what they've said.

[Vanderscamp]

Excuse you that’s insulting

I'm assuming you mean #491?

That wasn't meant to be insulting, I'm sure you are thinking about the game, but I don't think that post was a great representation of deep game thoughts.

[Vanderscamp]

VOTE: Ircher

Ye

Why did that post make you not vote Herta?

[Vanderscamp]

VOTE: Ircher

Ye

Why did that post make you not vote Herta?

Idk, but it prob not coming from maf

Atleast it's silly way to embrace and throw away legitimate reason for scumread

Therefore, it makes Herta more often town than not

... Silly right?

I feel like this logic implies that every time someone gives a town read on anyone, the person giving the read is less likely to be scum, which I don't find to be true.

Regardless of the silliness the result is the same and the process (not getting the read through legitimate means) is the same.

[Vanderscamp]

I have to agree that Herta's recent takes on Porkens are really bad. I could buy a TMI argument there.

These two things are incongruent no?

What do you think TMI means?

[Vanderscamp]

I see what you're getting at, I just don't think the absurdness of a scum giving that read is less likely than the absurdness of a town doing so.

[Vanderscamp]

I would vote porkens over Titus, I still obviously want to kill Herta but I will compromise onto pretty much anyone in several hours to ensure that we actually get a kill.

[Vanderscamp]

I have to agree that Herta's recent takes on Porkens are really bad. I could buy a TMI argument there.

11 hours left. We should make a decision. I'm willing to compromise on Titus and to a lesser extent Herta. Anyone not voting one of the top 3 wagons ought to move their votes at this point.

VOTE: Titus

Yup Ircher's scum with Herta.

This is also my best guess

[Vanderscamp]

I’ll think about it.

Nope, everyone is 50/50

Actually that’s wrong. I wouldn’t be happy to eliminate anyone. I have preferences of who I’d like to eliminate but they aren’t based on town/scum reads.

Like: Don Draper x Mistress (hydra of Nancy Drew 39 and Auro)
Love: Porkens
Wary: furtiveglance
Impatient: Herta
Enchanted: Vanderscamp
Wary: Ircher
Like: Titus
Wary: Enchant
Tempted: SCRRRDBEAR

This is part of it. The timing of these posts show Porkens is thinking about the game. Could be scum, but I think it's enough for Day 1.

This post is actually fabricated.
VOTE: herta

Why say this now and not earlier?

[Vanderscamp]

Three hours!

I count three on Titus and three on Herta

[Vanderscamp]

Herta E-1

[Vanderscamp]

Alarm is set to vote Titus in one hour

[Vanderscamp]

Alarm is set to vote Titus in one hour

If Enchant gets on before you, they'll hammer someone of their choice.

Don't you want a say?

My say is to vote Herta, if I could hammer there I would.

[Vanderscamp]

VOTE: Titus

[Vanderscamp]

Titus it’s extremely difficult to take you seriously if you still have us ib your PoE. I can’t even.

Can you please stop focusing on this now that Titus is confirmed town?

[Vanderscamp]

VOTE: Herta

Let's try again I guess

[Vanderscamp]

Uh sorry guys. I thought Herta was townie, maybe I scumsided

When Porkens really towned it up and Titus hard opposed his wagon I figured she was probably town.

I don't have porkens as hard town btw

[Vanderscamp]

There should be scum on Herta. Scum knew he wasn't doused.

Probably. And Herta definitely wasn't doused.

I can see it happening with five town but the team where this isn't true is porkens/furtive which is possible but very unlikely.

[Vanderscamp]

2.final

Votecount 2.final

Herta (5):

Vanderscamp, Ircher, SCRRRDBEAR, Don Draper x Mistress, Enchant -

Axed

.

Not Voting (3):

Porkens, furtiveglance, Herta.

Tree-stumps:

Titus.

With 8 players alive, it took 5 to axe someone.

However we will have to vote for someone. It’s not us, obviously not furtive. My guess could be Ircher/Scrrbear maybe?

Why is it obviously not furtive?

I haven't been townreading basically anything they've said in the last several days.

[Vanderscamp]

Firefighter should claim imo.

I don't think this is necessary.

[Vanderscamp]

Firefigher should claim and lead town as conftown. His "protections" are unneeded now.

It's likely that FF was doused anyway. I am not sure how gasolines view me, but they probably didn't douse me either (i would't honestly).

And i am not FF

. Therefore, it raises chances that FF is already doomed and should claim for atleast some benefit.

Any late, and arsos probably counterclaim/win already.

I don't think this is pro-town but I like you doing this

[Vanderscamp]

@furtive, what do you think about what Enchant is suggesting? Do you think Ff should out but obviously NOT claim targets?

I’m seriously reconsidering switching my vote to Porkens. But first, I want to hear more discussion about what Enchant is suggesting.

Are you in favour of ff outing or you think it’s best that they stay hidden? I haven’t yet made up my mind on that, so I want to hear opinions on that other than Enchant’s.

I don't think we really need it to happen, I don't think we're so uncoordinated that we won't be able to come together unanimously to kill someone without a confirmed town, partially because I think you're very town and I agree with you that I want to kill Ircher.

I don't think it's a guarantee that FF has been doused yet and I'd rather reduce the information the scum team gets regarding whether they should douse tonight.

[Vanderscamp]

Furtive, why are you so sure on porkens?

I don't agree at all with whoever said that porkens was towning it up a few days ago and I don't have any reason to have a town read there, but to me the slot is basically just a scummy null.

[Vanderscamp]

Ircher/bear?

[Vanderscamp]

Town: {Ircher}
Lean Town: {SCRRDBEAR, Draper}
Neutral Town: {furtiveglance}
Neutral Scum: {Enchant, Vanderscamp}
Lean Scum: {Porkens}

I was your top town last you mentioned me, what happened?

[Vanderscamp]

2.final

Votecount 2.final

Herta (5):

Vanderscamp, Ircher, SCRRRDBEAR, Don Draper x Mistress, Enchant -

Axed

.

Not Voting (3):

Porkens, furtiveglance, Herta.

Tree-stumps:

Titus.

With 8 players alive, it took 5 to axe someone.

However we will have to vote for someone. It’s not us, obviously not furtive. My guess could be Ircher/Scrrbear maybe?

Why is it obviously not furtive?

I haven't been townreading basically anything they've said in the last several days.

Because they were opposed to Herta but I’m not thrilled with him saying I refuse to vote Porkens just because my vote is currently on Ircher. I don’t understand the rush, especially since we could lose the game if we’re wrong.

Anything other than that?
I don't think it's impossible for a scum to be opposed to a town wagon.

[Vanderscamp]

If y’all can’t see what’s scummy about herta I can help you:

Read his posts, read them carefully and beteween the lines. What is he really telling us with each post? It’s that he doesen’t town.

Dude's scum fersher.

Idk, I still prefer Ircher.

Even though I think those posts are scummy I feel like town is more likely than mafia to make that kind of error.

[Vanderscamp]

I also think there is something pretty weird about the way furtive is acting like Don preferring Ircher (who is imo still very scummy) over porkens is resisting the porkens wagon, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the team were Ircher/furtive.

I can also see porkens/Ircher but I'll ignore that world since we should be fine regardless today unless town really throws.

[Vanderscamp]

Furtive, why are you so sure on porkens?

I don't agree at all with whoever said that porkens was towning it up a few days ago and I don't have any reason to have a town read there, but to me the slot is basically just a scummy null.

I can't see 2 mafia without Porkens

I also don't like this reasoning since it seems very unsubstantiated.

[Vanderscamp]

I'm pretty tempted to put the second vote on Ircher here, this probably loses to a team of porkens/bear and basically nothing else.

[Vanderscamp]

If y’all can’t see what’s scummy about herta I can help you:

Read his posts, read them carefully and beteween the lines. What is he really telling us with each post? It’s that he doesen’t town.

Dude's scum fersher.

Idk, I still prefer Ircher.

Even though I think those posts are scummy I feel like town is more likely than mafia to make that kind of error.

I think this kind’ve went over your head, I read that post as pretty obvious sarcasm.

Oh yeah you're right, I read it as him talking about porkens.

[Vanderscamp]

UNVOTE:

for now but I think those two posts by Porkens look like a scumclaim. Scum!Grandpamo wanted to lim dead town in RC uPick.

Is that the same player?

[Vanderscamp]

I also think there is something pretty weird about the way furtive is acting like Don preferring Ircher (who is imo still very scummy) over porkens is resisting the porkens wagon, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the team were Ircher/furtive.

I can also see porkens/Ircher but I'll ignore that world since we should be fine regardless today unless town really throws.

That kind’ve weirded me out as well but I disagree. I think it looks like Porkens maybe fake townslipped with those last two posts, unless he’s literally being facetious. And it doesn’t look that way to me.

Why would scum fake townslip in that way?

[Vanderscamp]

It seems everytime I want to vote Ircher, something happens to change my mind. Whether it’s those weird Porkens’ posts, furtive saying I’m refusing to vote Porkens and now Vanders pushing Ircher, I have no idea what to think now.

I've thought Ircher has been very scummy for the entire game, and the readslist they posted just now where I go from top town to scum lean with no explanation at all doesn't do anything to make them seem townier to me.

[Vanderscamp]

VOTE: Ircher

But stumps should be directing us, I genuinely forgot this was a thing and it makes the claiming plan even less important.

[Vanderscamp]

Don, is there anything other than furtive being opposed to the Herta wagon that makes you think they're town?

[Vanderscamp]

Don, is there anything other than furtive being opposed to the Herta wagon that makes you think they're town?

Their iso. Why do you think it’s scummy? And I do think Porkens’ latest posts about Herta/Enchant are seriously hella weird.

So, I just don’t want to end the day yet but rn that’s where I expect my vote is probably going to go.

It's more that furtive isn't towny imo, and I think the porkens push is scummy.
I wouldn't be shocked at all to find out that furtive is town here but they're also very far away from being obviously town to me.

[Vanderscamp]

I initially had furtive as mild town early D1 for posting generally reasonable content, but that read goes away on D3 when what is giving cred for is pretty easily doable as scum.

[Vanderscamp]

VOTE: Ircher

But stumps should be directing us, I genuinely forgot this was a thing and it makes the claiming plan even less important.

imagine listening to Titus

I'd obviously prefer my own reads, but this is in the event we can't do it ourselves

[Vanderscamp]

I DON'T LIKE ENCHANT'S SUGGESTION.

KNOW SAFETY - NO FIRE

Reads?

[Vanderscamp]

I DON'T LIKE ENCHANT'S SUGGESTION.

KNOW SAFETY - NO FIRE

Reads?

I NO LONGER TOWN READ ENCHANT, IN FACT I SCUM READ THEM NOW. I THINK THEY WERE TMI ON HERTA D1. I KIND OF LEAN TOWN ON YOU, DRAPER AND IRCHER. I GUESS I SCUM READ PORKENS OVER FURTIVE.

That's funny, I townread enchant much more today than previously.

[Vanderscamp]

Town: {Ircher}
Lean Town: {SCRRDBEAR, Draper}
Neutral Town: {furtiveglance}
Neutral Scum: {Enchant, Vanderscamp}
Lean Scum: {Porkens}

Can you explain those reads? Why is Scrrrbear your most confident town and why do you sr Enchant and Vanders?

@Ircher, can you please answer this?

I don't really feel like explaining practically all my reads. I will oblige you if you narrow it down to a single read you're most interested in hearing about.

Can you explain why I went from top town to neutral scummy?

[Vanderscamp]

I'm just waiting for Don, Enchant and Vanders to vote Porkens.

He's not my top scum.

[Vanderscamp]

I disagree that Porkens should claim. Someone should just hammer.

Can you answer my question about your reads please?

[Vanderscamp]

Firefighter.
N1: don
N2: vandercamp

Been playing bad on purpose to avoid getting doused

Why would you claim your protects?

[Vanderscamp]

Don Draper x Mistress, I'm going to have to threaten you with the word 'paired' to make you vote Porkens. Because your progression is ridiculous. 1) Having me as top town all game and 2) Having Porkens as a scumread, "oh I'm not refusing to vote them I just prefer Ircher" etc. Give me a break. How are you now saying you can't decide between us and want to vote someone else? This is complete BS.

You can threaten me all you like. I won’t be intimidated into voting until I make sense of this.

That's the thing, your projected gameview is completely dysfunctional - not just inconsistent, but you never signposted when your thoughts apparently (must have) changed from having me way above Porkens to having us literally equal. And the fact that you won't even explain it now is not a good look.

How can you seriously accuse Don of being scum here, especially given what Ircher is currently posting?

[Vanderscamp]

@furtive, tell me who you think is Porkens’ buddy?

@Porkens, answer me the same thing wrt to furtuve.

Prob Ircher or the bear

Why couldn't I be with porkens?

[Vanderscamp]

@Furtive what about me trying to make sense of this makes me a buddy? If you’re the real ff, then tell me who the fuck is Porkens’ buddy. There’s still two arsonists remember?

Idk who the buddy is, I was considering Ircher. But the fact that you keep repeating "oh one of these 2 is mafia then"...it's like you're dumbtelling. Hell yeah 1 of us is mafia, you should have an opinion.

I said one of you is lying and I don’t want to lim the real ff and you threatening me and intimidating me isn’t helping me one iota. I honestly don’t gaf if you don’t like it. I’m not fucking rushing this!

You keep ignoring my question. How did you go from [Me, Enchant] top town, [Ircher, Porkens] most scum to having literally no idea?

Both of you claimed ff and I don’t know who to believe rn. If there was only one arsonist lef it would be different but there’s two and I think it’s just safer to lim the other one today but I want to first hear from Enchant, Vanderscamp and Scrrrbear and optimally Herta and Titus.

You trying to push me is just having the exact opposite effect.

Yeah I completely agree with you.

I do think porkens is scummier than Furtive but I still don't have furtive as town and I think furtive as mafia would CC porkens 100% of the time in this spot.

I have pretty big issues with porkens' "I intentionally played bad to not get doused, here are my protects, whoops I shouldn't have said that" play, but I think Ircher is even scummier.

I'm also not sure how much merit the idea of leaving the firefighter alive has, almost definitely non-zero which is enough to make me lean towards not solving it if the outside pool is obvious, and to me it is pretty obvious, you're like 99+% town to me and the only question mark is BEAR who is vastly less scummy than Ircher here, and I don't like that Ircher is pushing hard on porkens.

[Vanderscamp]

It's probably either Ircher/furtive or bear/porkens here

[Vanderscamp]

Like, very likely

[Vanderscamp]

Again, Ircher, I'm very interested to know how I went from top town to mildly scummy.

[Vanderscamp]

Firefighter.
N1: don
N2: vandercamp

Been playing bad on purpose to avoid getting doused

This is ironically probably true. Us and Vanders we’re probably doused on the exact nights Porkens claimed.

Idk, feels weird to give us that info for free

[Vanderscamp]

2/5 town are not doused right now (presuming you didn't prevent one or more).

If we chop undoused target, they still can ignite on the win potentially. So we have 1-2 mislims or so.

We could have 0-2 mislims pretty sure and probably not 2

[Vanderscamp]

IDK IF FURTIVE IS BUSSING?

Is this a counterclaim?

OH FURTIVE WAS THE FIREFIGHTER? WELL DONE FURTIVE!

Wow

[Vanderscamp]

I don't like bear's recent posts


But Ircher

For the love of god can you please explain your progression on me, and why you have refused to do so up to this point

[Vanderscamp]

Arso is incompetent.

I agree.


I also really think it's Ircher.
Not that bear was towny on that final day, but it's a joke that we hammered him and just allowed Ircher to get away with not explaining any of his reads despite aggressive prompts over many days to get him to do so.

[Vanderscamp]

I THINK ENCHANT IS ARSONIST AND WON'T HAMMER ME BECAUSE THEY KNOW I WASN'T A DOUSE TARGET

ALSO, FURTIVE MAY HAVE BEEN THE N1 TARGET BECAUSE THEY SCARED PORKENS

Can you explain this? We obviously have to lim someone today and the only player who is very likely not to have been a douse target is Ircher and I’ve pretty much completely removed him from my PoE.

So, I don’t know who else Enchant thinks we’d lim today if not you?

And why in god's name have you completely removed Ircher from your POE?

[Vanderscamp]

I don't like this bullshit pumping from you.

Do you think Don is more likely scum here than either me or Ircher?

How do you feel about Don's contributions throughout the rest of the game?

[Vanderscamp]

I'm very very confident it's VOTE: Ircher.

[Vanderscamp]

Like, what has Ircher actually done that is town, except for presumably bussing Porkens?

I think both Don and Enchant have both clearly at least made an effort, and while I disagree with a lot of what they've had to say, they've at least showed reasonable thought processes and have given passion.

Ircher has not done anything resembling that for the entire game, and him refusing to talk about his reads or his progression of his reads is a massive massive red flag for me.

[Vanderscamp]

UNVOTE:

for now

Vanders tell me why you’re so sure it’s Ircher?

You have generally been pretty obvtown throughout the game, and I've talked a bit about Ircher above.

My main reasoning why it isn't enchant is that while I agree that the FF claiming stuff was anti-town, at least he was trying, which is more than Ircher has done.
I also agree with him that igniting last night was (sorry scum) absurdly poor play and I believe him when he talks about why he wouldn't have done it.

[Vanderscamp]

It’s not Vanders. It’s possible I’m being pocketed.

I'm slightly worried I'm wrong and just really tunneled!

But the issue is that I know that if I get to a final three with Ircher and anyone else and I'm wrong, I'm just not going to be able to ever re-evaluate unless Ircher massively changes it up compared to what he's said previously.

Atm it is just really a non-decision for me, BEAR being alive was at least a decision.

[Vanderscamp]

I don't like this bullshit pumping from you.

Do you think Don is more likely scum here than either me or Ircher?

How do you feel about Don's contributions throughout the rest of the game?

I don't know. I wanted to open today with plan "let's kill both vander and ircher and win lol".
Yeah, arso can't kill tomorrow, so go wild.


Let's pull everything we know.

There's only 2 ignited: Screrbear (BEAR in future) and furtive self.

It means that furtive did stop one prime somehow. We don't know for sure, but if we discover who he would protect and who arso primed, it will be easier to win.


N1 is unknown
N2 is unknown
N3 is obvious. They doused furtive who claimed. Considering Arso is notcompetent and wanted to get rid of FF ASAP, it means BEAR was doused before, not furtive. If furtive was doused beforehand, then why they didn't ignite instantly if this was goal?
N4 is ignite. Obvs.


On n1-2 they doused BEAR and some other person. I gonna bet that scum doused BEAR at N1, because he looked towny at that point and it's unlikely to quess prime at N1. It's possible but still.


TLDR:
So most likely, at N2, furtive protected someone and prevented them from going hot potato.

Who it would be?

Who would arsos prime N2 and furtive to protect N2?

It's also not super likely but definitely possible that scum targeted Furtive at some point before N3.
I agree that your scenario is the most likely but it's a pretty dangerous game to try to win based on those assumptions.
I'm assuming either Don or I was the save at some point.

[Vanderscamp]

... Eh. I can bet Don Draper was protected from death.

Ircher? lol, no.
Me? lol!
Vander? Did furtive even townread you? I don't remember.

Pretty sure he did, he made a comment during the CC day where he omitted me from the list of Porkens' possible partners, which I thought was kind of strange at the time since I was arguing to not kill Porkens.

Not that it makes me think I was a lock to get saved or anything, but hopefully it helps prove that me igniting last night is not a thing. I already think it's pretty awful but it's not like I would have been afraid of either furtive or bears' reads.
And if it helps, I've played this set as scum before on a different site, I can link the scum chat if anyone wants.

[Vanderscamp]

UNVOTE:

for now

Vanders tell me why you’re so sure it’s Ircher?

You have generally been pretty obvtown throughout the game, and I've talked a bit about Ircher above.

My main reasoning why it isn't enchant is that while I agree that the FF claiming stuff was anti-town, at least he was trying, which is more than Ircher has done.
I also agree with him that igniting last night was (sorry scum) absurdly poor play and I believe him when he talks about why he wouldn't have done it.

Actually good point, because if Ircher was town here, I would think arsonist would have targeted him.

The fact that no one other than furtive died probably means that furive made steller protects. I actually think ff trued to burn all of their douses but furive cleverly outsmarted them.

I don’t believe arso only tried to burn furtive.

This post is extremely towny

[Vanderscamp]

Anyway, Draper is always town here, and I'm town here. It's probably Vanders tbh because if it were Enchant, arsonists would not have ignited.

Would you have ignited?

[Vanderscamp]

Anyway, Draper is always town here, and I'm town here.

It's probably Vanders tbh because if it were Enchant, arsonists would not have ignited

.

Explain this.

I believe Enchant when Enchant says it would be a bad move. Since I also believe scum Enchant wouldn't carelessly throw the game, I can conclude that Enchant is not arsonist.

Vanders I feel would say they think it is a bad move and then do it anyway for the WIFOM.

Not that I particularly care how you read me since I'm pretty certain you're scum, but it's the opposite; I have a very extensive history on my other site of not making plays that I think are bad for WIFOM reasons, I can link info supporting this if anyone is interested.

[Vanderscamp]

Yeah, I'm still not very keen to WIFOM that too much

[Vanderscamp]

Is Ircher vs me actually a decision for you or are you just interested in Enchant's thoughts?

[Vanderscamp]

... Eh. I can bet Don Draper was protected from death.

Ircher? lol, no.
Me? lol!
Vander? Did furtive even townread you? I don't remember.

Pretty sure he did, he made a comment during the CC day where he omitted me from the list of Porkens' possible partners, which I thought was kind of strange at the time since I was arguing to not kill Porkens.

Not that it makes me think I was a lock to get saved or anything, but hopefully it helps prove that me igniting last night is not a thing. I already think it's pretty awful but it's not like I would have been afraid of either furtive or bears' reads.
And if it helps, I've played this set as scum before on a different site, I can link the scum chat if anyone wants.

Maybe you should? I think it’s probably Ircher because he was so sure Scrrdbear was FF but Idk.

Can you access this?
https://cassandrawerewolf.com/game/2498153/chat
You might need to sign in to read it, the game is here:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2498153/forest-fire


In case you can't read it, helpfully, the very first thing I said in the chat was this:
lendunistus Nov 24, 06:04 AM: Hello! You may chat with your teammate here.
lendunistus Nov 24, 06:04 AM: If you have any questions, feel free to ask them here or in your mod chat!
WerewolfHunter Nov 24, 09:46 AM: hello
Vanderscamp Nov 24, 03:07 PM: Yay!
Vanderscamp Nov 24, 03:07 PM: im excited
Vanderscamp Nov 24, 03:07 PM: lets crush
Vanderscamp Nov 24, 03:07 PM: Firstly it seems good to never use the ignite until the last moment
Vanderscamp Nov 24, 03:08 PM: And win there

[Vanderscamp]

Is Ircher vs me actually a decision for you or are you just interested in Enchant's thoughts?

Both. All of you locktown me and 2 of you think it’s not Enchant, so yeah his reads are important here.

I think it's Ircher more than thinking it's not Enchant, I don't know who of the two of you I would vote for (probably Enchant) because I think you're both quite towny, but if Ircher doesn't end the game it isn't automatic

[Vanderscamp]

Nevermind. This is 11 hour day. Carry on.

Are you on the right thread?

[Vanderscamp]

@Scrrdbear I would really like your take.

BEAR was ignited!

[Vanderscamp]

Also, I'll talk about the NK, which will hopefully make it more clear that I haven't done it.

I haven't actually worked this out yet, so there's some chance I prove myself wrong while writing this post, but it seems really obvious that scum should never intentionally set themselves up to ignite twice.



Last night is five alive, with one douse that scum knows was successful, one douse that scum knows is useless (stumpBEAR) and one mystery douse that could go either way.

If scum ignites last night, best case scenario two people die and it's a final three where scum needs one miskill.
Worst case scenario (what happened) the mystery douse was protected and it's a final four where scum need two miskills.


If scum douse last night, worst case scenario, furtive gets a save.
After one miskill, it's four alive, and after a douse, either it goes down to two alive for a scum win if the mystery douse was successful, or three alive for a final three if it wasn't, in which case scum needed two miskills total.


So even in this worse case scenario of dousing last night, even if scum somehow knew for a fact that furtive would 100% get a save, this is still no worse than just dousing last night anyway, and it's actually even mechanically better (assuming furtive's reads aren't super intimidating) because there's a wider pool that town has to select from.
And if furtive ever doesn't get a save, then it's just a win after one miskill even if the mystery douse didn't work.


So yeah, I would not do this.
I might do this if I somehow thought it was a good play, and then I might lie about thinking it was a bad play, but I don't know how I would ever think it wasn't a bad play.
And the fact that Enchant had the same logic makes me want to kill him much less than the people who don't. Like, if Ircher had come in and said "wow that's a really bad kill and I'll explain why," I would have loved that from him, but he didn't happen, probably because he is scum and made the kill.

[Vanderscamp]

Oh, caveat to that, there's a world where the village miskills the hypothetical douse target from last night.
Then it goes to four alive, and scum can choose to ignite then, and then it still just depends on whether the mystery douse was successful on whether it's a scum win or a final three.
So this scenario is still no worse than igniting at 5, and again, it's mechanically better because of the wider pool.

[Vanderscamp]

... Eh. I can bet Don Draper was protected from death.

Ircher? lol, no.
Me? lol!
Vander? Did furtive even townread you? I don't remember.

Pretty sure he did, he made a comment during the CC day where he omitted me from the list of Porkens' possible partners, which I thought was kind of strange at the time since I was arguing to not kill Porkens.

Not that it makes me think I was a lock to get saved or anything, but hopefully it helps prove that me igniting last night is not a thing. I already think it's pretty awful but it's not like I would have been afraid of either furtive or bears' reads.
And if it helps, I've played this set as scum before on a different site, I can link the scum chat if anyone wants.

Maybe you should? I think it’s probably Ircher because he was so sure Scrrdbear was FF but Idk.

Can you access this?
https://cassandrawerewolf.com/game/2498153/chat
You might need to sign in to read it, the game is here:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2498153/forest-fire


In case you can't read it, helpfully, the very first thing I said in the chat was this:
lendunistus Nov 24, 06:04 AM: Hello! You may chat with your teammate here.
lendunistus Nov 24, 06:04 AM: If you have any questions, feel free to ask them here or in your mod chat!
WerewolfHunter Nov 24, 09:46 AM: hello
Vanderscamp Nov 24, 03:07 PM: Yay!
Vanderscamp Nov 24, 03:07 PM: im excited
Vanderscamp Nov 24, 03:07 PM: lets crush
Vanderscamp Nov 24, 03:07 PM: Firstly it seems good to never use the ignite until the last moment
Vanderscamp Nov 24, 03:08 PM: And win there

Treestumps cannot be doused

and Treestumps cannot vote.

Mech was a bit different in that game.

Not really?
Why would you ever douse a treestump?

[Vanderscamp]

Like, the parity rules with tree stumps are the same, right?
Once they get daykilled they don't do anything

[Vanderscamp]

FWIW I just had a thought, the fact that you yesterday said that you weren't considering Ircher as part of your POE makes me think that you weren't doused and Ircher wanted you alive in that final three, which makes me think I was probably the save.

This isn't a relevant argument from a current gamestate perspective, but if I'm right I want postgame cred for it.

[Vanderscamp]

Either that or I'm heinously wrong on Ircher and Enchant thought he could set up a sick final three with Enchant/me/Ircher, this is at least possible. I don't think it's very likely that Enchant was the save, so it's hard for me to see a world with scumDon thinking that getting rid of me that night would be better than letting me stay alive, keep tunneling on Ircher, and maybe get some heat (unless he just wasn't thinking about the NK at all) so it makes me feel even better about Don not being scum.

[Vanderscamp]

It’s not Vanders. It’s possible I’m being pocketed.

Why did you say this if you think it's between Ircher and me btw?

[Vanderscamp]

... Eh. I can bet Don Draper was protected from death.

Ircher? lol, no.
Me? lol!
Vander? Did furtive even townread you? I don't remember.

Pretty sure he did, he made a comment during the CC day where he omitted me from the list of Porkens' possible partners, which I thought was kind of strange at the time since I was arguing to not kill Porkens.

Not that it makes me think I was a lock to get saved or anything, but hopefully it helps prove that me igniting last night is not a thing. I already think it's pretty awful but it's not like I would have been afraid of either furtive or bears' reads.
And if it helps, I've played this set as scum before on a different site, I can link the scum chat if anyone wants.

Maybe you should? I think it’s probably Ircher because he was so sure Scrrdbear was FF but Idk.

Can you access this?
https://cassandrawerewolf.com/game/2498153/chat
You might need to sign in to read it, the game is here:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2498153/forest-fire


In case you can't read it, helpfully, the very first thing I said in the chat was this:
lendunistus Nov 24, 06:04 AM: Hello! You may chat with your teammate here.
lendunistus Nov 24, 06:04 AM: If you have any questions, feel free to ask them here or in your mod chat!
WerewolfHunter Nov 24, 09:46 AM: hello
Vanderscamp Nov 24, 03:07 PM: Yay!
Vanderscamp Nov 24, 03:07 PM: im excited
Vanderscamp Nov 24, 03:07 PM: lets crush
Vanderscamp Nov 24, 03:07 PM: Firstly it seems good to never use the ignite until the last moment
Vanderscamp Nov 24, 03:08 PM: And win there

Treestumps cannot be doused

and Treestumps cannot vote.

Mech was a bit different in that game.

Not really?
Why would you ever douse a treestump?

That would be dumb unless their reads were spot on I guess.

I should probably read some of your MS scumgames but Ircher saying you did it for WIFOM sounds whack to me. I maintain that if town, Ircher was a viable douse, so I think burn last night especially Sccrdbear looks bad for Ircher.

I haven't played many scum games on this site at all, and the one I did play was definitely a meta deviation for me, so your sample there won't be great

[Vanderscamp]

I might have played more than one but I don't remember it.

[Vanderscamp]

Like, what has Ircher actually done that is town, except for presumably bussing Porkens?

I think both Don and Enchant have both clearly at least made an effort, and while I disagree with a lot of what they've had to say, they've at least showed reasonable thought processes and have given passion.

Ircher has not done anything resembling that for the entire game, and him refusing to talk about his reads or his progression of his reads is a massive massive red flag for me.

That was before both of you took Enchant out of consideration.

Enchant isn't out of consideration for me, he's just must townier than Ircher for me.

But why would me taking him out of consideration make you read me as worse than him?

[Vanderscamp]

I lean to it most likely being Ircher. However, why couldn’t Enchant have been doused? Pretty much everyone and their uncle - except Porkens and Bear were tr him.

I don't remember this being the case.

[Vanderscamp]

Actually that’s wrong. I wouldn’t be happy to eliminate anyone. I have preferences of who I’d like to eliminate but they aren’t based on town/scum reads.

Like: Don Draper x Mistress (hydra of Nancy Drew 39 and Auro)
Love: Porkens
Wary: furtiveglance
Impatient: Herta

Enchanted: Vanderscamp

Wary: Ircher
Like: Titus
Wary: Enchant
Tempted: SCRRRDBEAR

I wonder if the bolded means anything? Could that possibly be a slip that I wasn’t doused? But then furtive for sure protected me and probably Enchant as well because both of us were his top two trs.

So yeah, there have been 3 nights of dousing so far and one night of ignition. Scrrdbear and furtive were two, so Idk why furtive would protect you over both me and Enchant?

Like I don’t see how that makes sense, Furtive either protected me or Enchant because we’re his top two townreads.

I don't remember him having enchant as one of his two top town reads (I'm assuming you're talking about early game?) but that could definitely be the case if you're right

[Vanderscamp]

As usual, nothing Ircher has said has made me want to change my mind.

[Vanderscamp]

Don't think it's Ircher

Why not?

[Vanderscamp]

About Ircher's response to your wagon?

Yeah, I hated it

[Vanderscamp]

I'm not going to spend time defending myself. I encourage everyone to make their decision and vote accordingly.

Done

[Vanderscamp]

GG guys!

WP town

[Vanderscamp]

Well done guys. I'm glad I saved Vanders.

Aha!

Yeah that made the ignite make more sense, decent chance we lose that final three