Micro 1085: Even/Odd Killers [GAME OVER]

[Deltabreedy]

Catching up quickly now.

If anyone wants to draw my attention to anything in particular, now's the time!

[Deltabreedy]

Thoughts in order on a quick buzz-through:

We're not out of Rvs.

I feel like when someone places a vote for real, we're out of rvs, yes?

I don't like how Merlyn skirted over someone going to E-1 here.

---

I kinda vibe with Shea's #57. It would, in fact, have been very funny. And informative.

If someone lol hammers it would probably be way more informative than what usually happens on page 2 of a game and would also be very funny.

we lose a full day, then tomorrow we yeet that person and either they're scum (which like, meh) or it's a townie who wanted to be funny and then we lose TWO days and no

i'm not mad i've gotten used to everyone always wanting to power yeet me

Datisi's #59 disregards by omission the possibility of hitting scum or SK with a powerlim on Sheep.

Datisi/Sheep team? It's Datisi's moving of their vote that hopped us off of E-1, but then went for Merlyn over Shea. Why was this?

---

Didn't really vibe with Appearence's first few posts, but the retraction in #100 mitigates that I think?

Not sure how I feel about Sheep & Shea's hopping onto it there but we move. #102 at first glance feels like a good post but feels a bit too obvious of a thing to jump on?

Not sure where the townreads of Roden come from just after this

---

Sheep makes a really good point in #133 - and it's something that I've kind of been thinking as I go through as well. Merlyn is like 10 posts deep at this point, but isn't saying much at all. #136 against Appearance doesn't really include any real reason to scumread them.

Fire spells it out for me in #140: '

the general wagon kinda feels like a jumping on a slight awkwardness of phrasing things that imo is nai

'

I do understand why Merlyn may be aggrieved and the reaction feels more genuine than forced. As misplaced as the accusation of making it up may be and the whole modnote thing too - it does feel like genuine frustration.

---

#170 speaks to me. Shea's my top townread as of this point.

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#205 I agree with my slot (Hi Black!). Datisi, on a re-read is the most constant person that I've scumread the whole way through.

VOTE: Datisi

---

#254 This is the first real argument against Appearance that has really spoken to me. Good post imo.

---

Readslist

-

Town

Me

Shea

- Vibes, feels scumhunty and has the willingness and energy to drive content and arguments.

Don

- Felt like a bit of driftwood up until the argument on Appearance, which did have a bit of an effect on me. More town than Roden, less town than Shea for me.

Roden

- Weird one this, I get the sense that they aren't adding a whole amount. I've just read the game, right - and I can't recall one post, just a general unease with the slot.

Fire

- Feels a bit happy to townread folks on a whim, and the arguments so far don't really have any sway on me or my thoughts so far.

Sheep

- I don't think they came off as well as they could have done earlier in the game.

Appearance

- Another odd one - I get the sense that Appearance is playing for friends than playing to find scum? I agree with Don's argument and it'd be a flip of a coin to see them drop below Merlyn. Of all the slots I think this one is most likely to be the SK.

Merlyn

- I think the page 2 avoidance of addressing the E-1, combined with what has felt like at times some quite drifty/actively lurky gameplay plus the arguably bad-faith argument with Appearance maybe felt just a bit too much off the mark. It seemed genuine when I read it but on reflection (and I won't edit the above, so as to show my thought process), the whole exchange felt a bit confrontational as opposed to genuine belief that Appearance was scum.

Datisi

- Most consistent scumread. I've not felt that Datisi's contributions lead much in the way towards scumhunting - I feel like the intent just isn't there and I'm keen to see this slot go today.
-

Scum

---

Catching up quickly now.
*snip*

Pfft -

quickly

[Deltabreedy]

I'm really liking Don's recent posts, especially 254.

can u talk a bit more about this I dont see it

Echoing this to an extent. I do see it, but I would like to see what you're liking in 254, and if it adjusts your thought process.

[Deltabreedy]

*Snip*
we lose a full day, then tomorrow we yeet that person and either they're scum (which like, meh) or it's a townie who wanted to be funny and then we lose TWO days and no
*Snip*

No, you didn't.

You said we lose a full day today, then everything after that point refers to the D2 lim. I've highlighted it below:

*Snip*
we lose a full day,
*Snip*

No mention of scumhood here
And then

*Snip*
then tomorrow we yeet that person and either they're scum (which like, meh) or it's a townie who wanted to be funny

and then we lose TWO days

and no
*Snip*

You completely disregarded the possibility of the lim hitting scum by virtue of saying that 2 days would be wasted which struck me as scummy.

Suggesting by omission that they aren't scum suggested to me a level of knowledge about the game. Can't be an SK with that level of knowledge about the game so has to be scum IMO.

[Deltabreedy]

Datisi/Sheep team? It's Datisi's moving of their vote that hopped us off of E-1, but then went for Merlyn over Shea.

Why was this?

what is this question asking?

Why did you go for Merlyn over Shea?

[Deltabreedy]

and, technically speaking: even if i were scum, i still cannot have the level of knowledge to know whether the quickhammer on day 1 is going to flip town or not, so ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

This is a non-sequitur - you would know whether or not it would flip scum which is the key distinction.

Would it flip town? Maybe. Would it flip SK? Maybe. But the thing that you avoided was that chance of it flipping scum, that's where the omission occurs and that's why I think its scummy.

[Deltabreedy]

I'm really liking Don's recent posts, especially 254.

can u talk a bit more about this I dont see it

Don was a bit of a non-entity until that string of posts, but it didn't feel like a "oh shit I need to start posting content before I get called out on it" moment to me. I feel like they were just hanging back a bit until a few things came up they could hone in on. I generally agree with their takes, and 254 specifically was very well-worded and explained things that were sitting in my brain that I couldn't quite organize into words and hadn't seen anyone else post either.

While you're here, weigh in on Datisi?

[Deltabreedy]

and, technically speaking: even if i were scum, i still cannot have the level of knowledge to know whether the quickhammer on day 1 is going to flip town or not, so ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

This is a non-sequitur - you would know whether or not it would flip scum which is the key distinction.

Would it flip town? Maybe. Would it flip SK? Maybe. But the thing that you avoided was that chance of it flipping scum, that's where the omission occurs and that's why I think its scummy.

i know it's a non-sequitur, i'm poking fun at your 277, which claimed:
"Datisi's #59 disregards by omission the possibility of hitting scum or SK with a powerlim on Sheep."
which implies that i am informed in two ways, which. you know. you get why it's false.

then, when i say "scum" i'm generally referring to any non-town. with 284 being an exception because i was responding to you there.

finally, omission: yes, i was assuming a quickhammer wouldn't flip scum. this is because (1) the conversation was going in that direction, (2) i have never seen a p2 quickhammer flip not-town.

I'm honestly unconvinced by this.

---

@Roden: True, but as I say, from vibes I feel that they're townie. Playstyle, sure but vibes tell me they're town.

Who is your top townread?

[Deltabreedy]

I mean I can put a full-on case together on you but at present it's a central pillar yeah.

Nothing you've said is really convincing me that I need more to be honest.

[Deltabreedy]

Delta feels fine, their entrance and catch up posts lean a bit on the townier side for me. I do find it kinda funny that they don't think much of my posts even though we both landed at a very specific conclusion (Appearance being the SK).
-

Shea

- Vibes, feels scumhunty and has the willingness and energy to drive content and arguments.

Why does this make Shea town? Every alignment is incentivized to scum hunt in this set up. And Shea himself admitted that his playstyle is all about high activity and constantly driving content.

The actual fact is that I'm in a huge game right now and i entered both this game and last one trying to play not to my normal hyper style because I'm kind of exhausted but i failed in that game and it kind of already feels like I'm failing in this one.

I'm just sweaty always and i guess i should kind of just embrace that.

I also asked you to comment on Datisi.

Could you oblige please?

[Deltabreedy]

I get the sense that you're trying to deflect the accusation of scumslipping through a series of 'gotcha' moments, rather than explaining why I should be voting elsewhere.

Why does it have you rattled that I voted you? I'm alone on your wagon.

[Deltabreedy]

Can you quantify that for me?

It was a lot of waffle to get down to... You haven't sorted him yet.

Are they a townlean then?

[Deltabreedy]

Not quantify, but just say what you mean kind of thing.

[Deltabreedy]

also it feels to me that most of your case around me is built on the assumption that i'm noobscum or that i don't know how to play scum which like always annoys the shit out of me lmao

That's not something I've put across, it's vastly reductive and is a poor attempt at discrediting my argument.

Again - why is your aim primarily to discredit what I am saying through vague assertions rather than telling me where my vote should be going?

I also don't care if you're annoyed at this - I won't be abandoning this line of thought until I'm satisfied.

---

Ninja'd:

Can I get a readslist please Merlyn?

---

@Roden: I typed it after your first post and before your second.

I was just reminding you of the question.

And your followup before addressing my request for you to clarify did clear it up so thank you. I think you're pretty off with that read tbh but cheers.

[Deltabreedy]

No, you're really seriously trying to discredit my argument off the back of nothing - do you honestly think I'm trying to put you down as newbscum when you're approaching 25000 posts here? Seriously?

There's a base level of understanding of the game that is implicit with the fact that you have such a high count here - so no, I'm categorically not implying shit.

---

The narrative that I'm saying you're newbscum is an entirely fabricated argument that serves to cement my position on you being scum rather than weaken it.

[Deltabreedy]

Will it make you happier if I say they made a mistake whilst being very very experienced, then doff my cap and tug my forelock?

No-one is immune to perspective slipping and tbh you've got a bit of an ego if you're getting offended at this.

Again, I think this is faux outrage.

[Deltabreedy]

you're accusing me of something that realistically, only very incompetent scum ever makes a mistake on, but then you're claiming you're not accusing me of being a noob

dude

If you want to push the narrative that you're incompetent, that's more on you than it is on me.

I'm still yet to see a good reason why I oughtn't keep my vote here. This reaction

stinks

.

[Deltabreedy]

i'm typing these posts while taking a serene night walk in the countryside

this ain't even close to what my outrage looks like

As I said. Faux outrage.

[Deltabreedy]

If you want to push the narrative that you're incompetent

Quote it in full now mate

[Deltabreedy]

I'm open to reassessing

When I'm told why I should lmao - feigning outrage like this isn't terribly convincing.

[Deltabreedy]

For context I avoid meta reading because it's fairly easy when you've played a while and are aware of your meta to play towards or away from metas.

And again, it's quite reductive to say that all of my reads are assumptions and rigid, and even more so to say that it's all based on vibes. All you've done over the last page and a half is attempt to discredit rather than attempt to explain where it's wrong.

You've done this by feigning outrage, by appealing to the playerbase, insinuating that my line of reasoning comes from a position of attacking your character and you've failed to actually engage with anything that I said outside of the vote on you.

You've literally focused in on discreditting my argument whilst on a 'serene night walk'. Why aren't you focusing in on telling me why my read is wrong rather than accusing me of things I haven't done.

[Deltabreedy]

Its bizarre to be honest

[Deltabreedy]

#279 did not address my line of reasoning.

#283 once again did not address the accusation of slipping by omission.

#284 addresses it, but categorises it by attempting to say that mechanically scum can't know that someone is town. That is true, but they do know who scum is which was the point of what I said. Therefore, Datisi dodged it again.

#289 admits that #284 is irrelevant as a non-sequitur. It also then seems to be an attempt to tie me up in semantics - which is something that people have successfully countered my arguments before. By putting semantic waffle in the way, it clouds and distracts my point. The last part of it addressing it is entirely weak and doesn't actually prove anything. When taken in the context of a number of posts that duck and dive the accusation, it's not enough to overturn what I said.

Following this, they change arguments into essentially accusing my read of being based on an ad-hominem and then you come in to defend them because... I don't know.

Either way, I'm keen on letting Datisi answer the accusations against Datisi - so if it's all the same to you, stop defending them. They're more than capable themselves.

Ninja'd:
It's not untrue at all. Quotes incoming.

[Deltabreedy]

You've done this by feigning outrage, by appealing to the playerbase, insinuating that my line of reasoning comes from a position of attacking your character and you've failed to actually engage with anything that I said outside of the vote on you.

like this is so blatantly untrue that my immediate reaction is to think like datisi did of "scum wouldn't double down on just completely misrepresenting things this hard, would they?"

but i think he is the type of scum player who might

---

Here's where those things happened:

Spoiler: Feigning Outrage

also it feels to me that most of your case around me is built on the assumption that i'm noobscum or that i don't know how to play scum which like always

annoys the shit out of me

lmao

@delta (am on mobile so no quote surgery)

that's not something you put forward, but i can very clearly see it's implied.

because people don't accuse good scum of "perspective slipping" and "no intent behind scumhunting"

again, because your view of my slot is garbage

and i'm trying to change your mind and/or see whether you really believe it

why should i be telling you where to vote. you can read the game and see who i've expressed suspicion on and who i'm voting right now

---

Spoiler: Appealing to the Playerbase

that's not fair fire, what do you mean you read games for meta instead of just making vibe assumptions??

also, a question to everyone other than delta: do i sound outraged there?

---

Spoiler: Insinuating that my line of reasoning comes from a position of attacking their character

you're accusing me of something that realistically, only very incompetent scum ever makes a mistake on, but then you're claiming you're not accusing me of being a noob

dude

---

And they haven't passed comment that I've seen on my Shea read, on my Appearance or Merlyn reads or even my null reads. They've not passed comment on anything other than the vote on them.

[Deltabreedy]

Just a note for everyone that I'll minimally active on Friday and very lightly active on Saturday as I'll be at a funeral. Don't expect much/owt from me on Friday.

[Deltabreedy]

@Mod: Reference #334 above

[Deltabreedy]

Either way it's fake. The reaction came when their ducking and diving didn't work so it switched to wholesale discrediting my argument.

So if you want to get specific, it's neither outrage or annoyance.

[Deltabreedy]

They've not passed comment on anything other than the vote on them.

yeah bc i don't really care about your other content right now

Why don't you care?
Why are you

only

concerned about how you look to me?

[Deltabreedy]

But the only reason you think content is drying up from this line of discussion (on which I disagree by the way, we've learned that Fire's basically a Rottweiler when it comes to defending you) is because you're solely focused on my read on you.

Why not shift the discussion elsewhere and keep it going, as opposed to derailing it?

[Deltabreedy]

there was no ducking and diving he literally directly addressed your point and explained his thought process behind the post and you pretended he didn't and are still pretending he didn't

Nope, he categorically didn't. I've explained why.

[Deltabreedy]

@Datisi: What would you like to talk about that isn't my read on you?

There's changing the conversation and there is ending it, and there's a difference.

[Deltabreedy]

*Snip*
we lose a full day, then tomorrow we yeet that person and either they're scum (which like, meh) or it's a townie who wanted to be funny and then we lose TWO days and no
*Snip*

No, you didn't.

You said we lose a full day today, then everything after that point refers to the D2 lim. I've highlighted it below:

*Snip*
we lose a full day,
*Snip*

No mention of scumhood here
And then

*Snip*
then tomorrow we yeet that person and either they're scum (which like, meh) or it's a townie who wanted to be funny

and then we lose TWO days

and no
*Snip*

You completely disregarded the possibility of the lim hitting scum by virtue of saying that 2 days would be wasted which struck me as scummy.

Suggesting by omission that they aren't scum suggested to me a level of knowledge about the game. Can't be an SK with that level of knowledge about the game so has to be scum IMO.

oh, i see what you mean now. i was responding to shea's 57 there, which says that

If someone lol hammers it would probably be way more informative than what usually happens on page 2 of a game

it would be informative - i figured the assumption was made that the person getting lolhammered would flip green (because if they were red, then any sort of information about the lolhammerer kind of pales in comparison to actually having a red flip), and the "it would be informative" surely wasn't talking about the person potentially getting hammered because we'd know their alignment soon enough

also, i've never seen scum getting lolhammered on page 2, but i have seen town getting lolhammered on page two. so i would be making the assumption that, if anyone does get hammered on page 2, it's going to be a townie

Here you go.

Tell me exactly where they referred to it.

[Deltabreedy]

@Roden

Someone perspective slipping
Then ducking and dodging questions when called out on it and failing to address it
Then accusing the person voting them of insinuating that they're shite at the game out of nowhere
Then attempting to end the conversation rather than moving it along

isn't compelling? Maybe you need more time but no - I'm staying on this point for a while now.

[Deltabreedy]

*snip*

Here you go.

Tell me exactly where they referred to it.
[/quote]

This is the post I am referring to by the way Fire. Please - prove me wrong.

[Deltabreedy]

I gave my readslist before this whole interaction...

[Deltabreedy]

I'm kind of happy to bump Roden up into a townread.

I hadn't considered the Shea/Merlyn angle until now.

[Deltabreedy]

I kind of hate all the reference to self-meta. I feel like it's just a playstyle thing but when I see someone saying 'this is how I play as [x] alignment guys, trust me' it really gnaws at me like someone running nails down a chalkboard.

[Deltabreedy]

That really bothers me Shea and idk if it shouldn't be factored into my thoughts (playstyle clash) or should (gut feeling that something's a bit off).

[Deltabreedy]

I think you're minimum the 3rd person (Myself and I think Roden?) to say Appearance is the SK.

[Deltabreedy]

I do agree with sheep that offing the SK today would be pretty neat

[Deltabreedy]

I'm still V/LA and not really in a decision-making mood right now, I might revisit this but

UNVOTE: Datisi
VOTE: Appearance

Ninja'd yeah fair enough.

E-1

[Deltabreedy]

I'd preferentially take out the SK today because it takes a kill every other night off the table, which I think increases our chances by significantly more than popping a mafioso today.

I agree with the assertion that fire is scum over Datisi also.

[Deltabreedy]

I'd preferentially take out the SK today because it takes a kill every other night off the table, which I think increases our chances by significantly more than popping a mafioso today.

I agree with the assertion that fire is scum over Datisi also.

either a real dumb tell or an attempted fake dumbtell. Hard to say which.

I was going to react with absolute indignation until I went and checked the setup.

Neat.

UNVOTE: appearance
VOTE: fire

[Deltabreedy]

I get the sense that Appearance is too easy of a Lim, it makes sense that they're the SK and I don't think we should be aiming there.

I do think we should be whacking Fire here.

[Deltabreedy]

Hmm. Give me a moment, i just woke up, and i will make a detailed case on fire!scum.

Want to see this before the hammer gets dropped.

[Deltabreedy]

I think it's quirky that Fire jumped in to defend Datisi super-hard, it looked more like someone looking to curry favour on what was being universally called a bad read for credit, and didnt read as genuine.

Why would Town!Fire jump in to defend Datisi? Meh I dont think they're town

[Deltabreedy]

Yeah. I don't think they can both be scum.

[Deltabreedy]

Did Merlyn coast yesterday?

[Deltabreedy]

I maintained a fairly consistent townread on them from when I joined.

[Deltabreedy]

I maintained a fairly consistent townread on them from when I joined.

Why though?

When I replaced in, had good vibes and I agreed with most of their points.

Is the fire vote still a gutread?

[Deltabreedy]

Sure

VOTE: fire

[Deltabreedy]

Out of interest, why does all of this ping you?

Keen on understanding as I have my own reasons to think that Fire is not-town-aligned.

[Deltabreedy]

And I imagine you haven't caught up to the exchange that leads to this conclusion.

[Deltabreedy]

I think it's Fire. I don't see why anyone would feel the need to defend Datisi with the ferocity that they did unless they were motivated by the need to have friends come endgame.

It was truly bizarre and now their vote is parked on me for... I guess reasons? I've not seen anything substantial to suggest why but for they disagree with my points. The fact that they aren't really looking for anything else suggests to me the very thing that they're accusing me of - an apathy towards finding scum that doesn't translate into a town-aligned mindset for me.

Read their ISO. It's a lot of jabs and remarks, without really much of substance behind what they say. Questions aren't followed up on when they're answered or not held accountable, they're picking fairly easy arguments to go for and as I say, if they were really scumhunting - their vote wouldn't be on me, someone who's inactive through V/LA for reasons that feel at best, contrived.

[Deltabreedy]

Doesn't completely clear Datisi, they could both be anti-town of course (which would also, coincidentally, be very funny), but I think Fire!Scum or Fire!SK makes me feel associatively better about Datisi, even if only a smidge.

The fact that they felt so happy to assign townhood to folks earlier in the game also suggests to me that they are by some measure informed.

In order of preference, I'd take a:

Fire lim
Datisi lim
Nurse lim (legacy read from your previous slot)

[Deltabreedy]

They also critique my play, suggesting that 'Town!Me would be more fervent in pushing their case' (paraphrased).

Can we talk about how they end Day one by talking about me, their primary scumread, then hammer Appearance?

Nah this isn't town. Lets get this done.

[Deltabreedy]

appearance, who do you scumread?

probably fire rn. they seems to a touch bit too defensive in that they've played the contrarian when i was being wagoned (140, 147), defended datisi real hard (330, 343). tho one thing which i like the least is the unexplained sheep tr (376, 403, 405, 408). and 501 feels kinda like they've been paying not enough attention to the game.

anyways, i guess i'd go back to VOTE: fire.

Also this

[Deltabreedy]

I mean they're allegedly Dong's top SR as well, so that's hypothetically E-1.

Worse things than following your gut. Where are you caught up to?

[Deltabreedy]

Can you manage our expectations on when you're going to be caught up? Obviously doesn't have to be every post but I kind of want you to be talking from the same base of experience as everyone else in this game. At the moment from what you've said, you're scumreading Fire with barely any context D1 and none D2, just vibes?

We're halfway through the day and you've been about for over a day in real-time. I would have hoped when you joined the game you'd commit to reading more than pages 1-3.

[Deltabreedy]

i don't think appearance is that scummy

the general wagon kinda feels like a jumping on a slight awkwardness of phrasing things that imo is nai

don and maybe shea

appearance i think some of the reasons that he was pushed over were bad and probably scummy which kinda makes me lean town but independent of that i don't particularly townread him. so.... eh

merlyn i guess i should read closer

you/sheep/datisi i wouldn't vote rn

After this you quote a few posts of Appearances but you never developed it any further than 'I think Appearance is scummy'. You point out a few things where you disagree with them but they were never really framed as scummy. You threw around the idea that they weren't solving, but weren't voting them. You would rather it were either Don or I but you never cased either of us really. Indeed, Appearance was 3rd in your list of lim targets behind Don and I.

This is why I find it weird why with some time remaining in the day, you wouldn't look to turn the wagon to a more solid scumread? Your hammer on Appearance was pretty vague, and came immediately after talking about me. To not really explore the appetite for it to any great extent feels to me like you settled for appearance because it's a lim and it's not you.

[Deltabreedy]

this game takes like. 30 minutes to read, max. it's not that much of a time commitment

Don't tell a complete stranger what is or isn't "not that much of a time commitment," especially when you don't know how busy that person is in real life.

This is why I've asked you to manage our expectations. Tomorrow? Sunday? Day 3?

It's not unreasonable to ask you to read the game that you replaced into in a timely fashion.

[Deltabreedy]

i don't think you're taking in new information or trying to solve the game at all, you're just repeating old points and positions. i don't get any feeling that the flip of shea being scum told you anything about the game

i don't think town would have nurse as their 3rd preferred lim here

Yeah it told me Shea was scum. They also did a fairly good job at distancing from everyone bar the Merlyn/Nurse slot.

Onto not solving the game and not taking in new info - why are you voting me again?

[Deltabreedy]

You're still not answering my question.

When will you be caught up?

Why are you dodging this question?

[Deltabreedy]

I'm trying real hard to ask you nicely without asking why you replaced into a game you have no time for reading, but plenty of time for posting.

[Deltabreedy]

You're still not answering my question.

When will you be caught up?

Why are you dodging this question?

[Deltabreedy]

So, safe in the knowledge that Datisi had indicated intent, why did you hammer for them?

[Deltabreedy]

Also fire, am I being a dick by asking Nurse to catch up? I dont feel like I am

[Deltabreedy]

Also fire, am I being a dick by asking Nurse to catch up? I dont feel like I am

I told you I have no interest reading 28+ pages of past Day 1 speculation, and yet you continue pestering me over that as if that's going to help anyone. That is my meta. Continue pestering me over it to your own detriment.

You have 65 posts on the site, a third of them in this game - you don't have a meta?

'Trust me, I'm ALWAYS this lazy!'

Nah fuck that tbh - your vote on fire came from shite vibes on the first 3 pages and your vote on me is because what - I want you to read the game you voluntarily replaced into? That's a kinda wild take.

[Deltabreedy]

My heads fell off at this, what is going on

[Deltabreedy]

Also, @Fire - Do you understand how logically inconsistent it is for your vote to be on me for 'not solving the game' and yet you're now defending this behaviour from Nurse, almost refusing to play the game.

Can you rehash your argument against me again?

Additionally, I find it odd that you're not holding Datisi to account for not hammering when they said they would.

[Deltabreedy]

I wanted to hear what you thought about it first, as you're my primary scumread. You're right in that it only occurred to me now. Unfortunately for you, my perception of it is as I said above - that you found a wagon with steam, you gave it your support in an apparent 180 from your original thoughts and you limmed it without really trying to push for a me or a Don lim.

For someone being so bullish about my apparent lack of gamesolving, you really are keen to give people a pass.

I get the feeling you're really trying to push this narrative of 'not trying to solve the game' because you've got nothing else to push, so you're manufacturing this and hoping it sticks off the back of 'suspecting' me yesterday. Im still yet to see a coherent case on anyone come from you that carries any weight?

---

@Datisi:

Why didn't you hammer? What changed?

[Deltabreedy]

#709-#712 for anyone that's interested.

Mad what can be accomplished when you read the game but hey we've learned today that's optional

[Deltabreedy]

I'm moving house tomorrow and taking apart my computer in like 30 mins or so, so if anyone wants to ask me anything now is the time before I'm almost-but-not-quite V/LA.

[Deltabreedy]

They aren't partners
I still scumread Datisi but I don't have it as strongly. I think Fire is nailed on though.

[Deltabreedy]

My god thank you

But yeah you asked me how it could make me feel better about Datisi (IE lessen the scumread)

It just kind of does?

[Deltabreedy]

Don't undermine my argument by painting it as idiocy, it's fucking rude for a start and you'll give scum like fire and trolls like nurse a bat to beat over my head.

They obviously can't be partners. Me saying it clear as day is why I feel slightly better about Datisi, although I still find them annoying.

I'm concerned that Nurse is making an attempt at obv-towning by picking a shitty fight to focus on (I'm not reading the game and that's just how I am) but at present the improvement in my Datisi read doesn't overcome that.

[Deltabreedy]

@Datisi: Why didn't you hammer? What changed?

*snip*
do you think me not hammering is relevant to my alignment?

After this, not really - I think getting my 3 braincells rubbing together thinking about this will just drop me down a WIFOM mineshaft so I'll say probably not and leave it.

I'd ask what you think of Fire's hammer in the context that I gave earlier, but I think they described the scenario as much the same so I doubt there's much to gain from that.

Am I today's lim, in your opinion?

[Deltabreedy]

Tbh I didn't realise I was on E-1. It kinda stinks that the wagon has built over what, a day or so?

Nurse is trolling so there's nothing to be gained from analysing that vote.
Fire is likely scum who prepared this with seeds from yesterday, then has taken advantage of my regular V/LA to accuse me of not gamesolving, being apathetic and the like (patently untrue)
Sheep parked their wagons with Fire's half the game ago, and has coasted back onto my wagon today with no further exposition of why.

So we've got:
- Trolling
- Misrepresentation
- Weak votes

Does this strike anyone else as a little odd that I've reached E-1 with such speed and little reasoning?

[Deltabreedy]

I could take a Fire lim for reasons I outlined over 4 posts (#709 - #712)
I could take a Merlyn/Nurse lim for reasons from Merlyn's slot that I outlined when I joined the game and the arrogant lack of investment the replacement has in any kind of gamesolving.

There's just too many bad faith votes on my wagon to have it go through ngl

Ninja'd:

@Roden: Can you walk me through how Merlyn is town?

@Datisi: How did Fire's defence of you (whilst saying also that you can speak for yourself) sit with you? Did it make you feel good/bad, uneasy/confident in their alignment?
Also, I don't particularly like Don's play at the end of D1 and through today, but I also wouldn't put them as someone I want limmed today. Can you recap why Don is your favourite today?

Ninja'd more:

@Sheep: I think you're sitting on my wagon for soft reasons, I think you're likely town but either bored or tired.

@Don: Can you manage our expectations on when you will bring that case? It's now been 5 days, and I doubt any amount of illegally downloading films could stop you from making that case for 5 days, surely.

Fucken let me post:

@Roden: I don't mind being limmed if it comes to that, but limmed for these reasons is kinda laughable I shan't lie, hence the indignation.

@Don: No, no more waiting. I want you to make the case.

Aaaaaaaaaaaah

Will post then respond.

[Deltabreedy]

Legacy vote from merlyn. Can't be bothered unvoting right now

So who do you want to lim? Fire or Merlyn/Nurse?

[Deltabreedy]

Because you voted for Merlyn's slot but now you're casing Fire so it's a little confusing, see

[Deltabreedy]

@Datisi: How did Fire's defence of you (whilst saying also that you can speak for yourself) sit with you? Did it make you feel good/bad, uneasy/confident in their alignment?

you mean 737? doesn't really do anything for me. i don't see it as a defense, because i don't think my action there needed defending. or like, i don't think me not hammering is alignment indicative for me there, i think fire also knows it's not alignment indicative for me, thus it's something that cannot be defended because the action itself isn't bad. does that make sense i hope it does.

No, the one from yesterday - oughtta clarified.

[Deltabreedy]

The amount of people referring to their own meta in this game is actually annoying me now - pointing back at meta as though it -proves- anything.

Imo pointing at your own meta and saying 'This is my [alignment] play in my mind makes any referring to meta moot, because it indicates an awareness of meta and if you're aware of it, you can play towards and away from it.

[Deltabreedy]

Shea used self-referential meta in an attempt to prove townhood - for me self-referential meta is a scumtell

[Deltabreedy]

The thing with Don that makes me not want to push them is their stance in response to Fire and I day one. It'd be so easy for scum to either let the argument happen or to pile in themselves, but they actually supported the more widely contrarian side and I agree with their conclusions on Fire.

That said, their end of D1 and D2 so far feels real iffy.

Is there a world in which Fire is Shea's partner, with Don as the SK?

[Deltabreedy]

The amount of people referring to their own meta in this game is actually annoying me now - pointing back at meta as though it -proves- anything.

Imo pointing at your own meta and saying 'This is my [alignment] play in my mind makes any referring to meta moot, because it indicates an awareness of meta and if you're aware of it, you can play towards and away from it.

Yeah i find it annoying as well. Thing is i had to point that out here because a) dats knows my meta, andb) my point makes no sense without knowing how i play.

I mean, I'm still aggrieved that you didn't put across a fire case and just accepted the Appearance lim in the end. Why did you sit back and relax over contributing your fire case?

[Deltabreedy]

You explain why you dont find his third point plausible, none for his first and second which are his strongest. Especially 330 is straight up buddying levels, and nothing for that? Why would town fire be so adamsnt about chainsawing you? If he thinks the case is bad, then he could show that by pointing out the flaws instead of regurgitating your points.

this is ignoring the context of the fact that 330 is literally me pointing out the flaws in the case

here is the exact quote that i am refuting:

All you've done over the last page and a half is attempt to discredit rather than attempt to explain where it's wrong.

You've done this by feigning outrage, by appealing to the playerbase, insinuating that my line of reasoning comes from a position of attacking your character and you've failed to actually engage with anything that I said outside of the vote on you.

how exactly do you expect me to point out the flaws in this case except by quoting the posts that prove this is a misrepresentation? im not regurgitating datisi's points and i don't think you actually read the back and forth very closely if you think that's the case. my argument didn't have anything to do with datisi's points. it was that delta was misrepresenting and pushing a flawed case

I explain in #332 and #333, for context.

[Deltabreedy]

I think that my status read has been fairly consistent up until post 461, which has been to scumread him constantly, so i assume you're asking about 461. And 461 is more about fire and appearance rather than shea. See, i had little time in d1 to make a case on shea, fire and push my appearance is sk therefore no lim strategy. I wanted to reduce the number of fronts i'd be fighting essentially. My read on shea hadn't actually changed, but i wanted him to be a non factor and maybe even back me up when i would push fire. If i were to antagonize him further i feared it would be harder to get a fire wagon up and running. You might think this is nonsensical, but check my previous town games where i constantly do this.

in 700 you use 461 to claim that you were townreading shea and therefore you wouldn't have shot him lmao

I'm keen on seeing the response to this.

[Deltabreedy]

UNVOTE: fire
VOTE: Don

[Deltabreedy]

I explain in #332 and #333, for context.

and those are still misrepresentations imo but whatever i don't care to argue that rn

We can find time sometime I'm sure.

[Deltabreedy]

And I appreciate that. Real life comes first

#570 was 5 days plus change ago now.

You've had plenty of time for retorts, for engaging with Merlyn, engaging with me, engaging with fire - we're still waiting. Twice you've committed to either a case, or a 'something' and twice now we're left wanting.

Ninja'd:
Nurse you're yet to explain either your reads on either fire or I. Where are we now, post #65?

Are you even reading all of D2 as a minimum?

[Deltabreedy]

God I knew what I was saying had a point and wasn't just a rant in-the-moment.

[Deltabreedy]

Done some mulling on this and I think I'm the 'obvious' lim today. Three of you broadly have suspected me at one point or another, weirdly I think Datisi is the only one not to have done. I get this vibe that Dats is looking to have a hands-off lim today, I think if things developed naturally the wagon would build on me nice and easily. That this was manufactured suggests to me that Datisi did the kill last night, which lets them coast today a bit, appear more like a disengaged townie possibly or whatever and not eat a bullet in N3.

Honestly the most solid thing I have after thinking on the events of the night.

VOTE: Datisi

Open to hearing other theories because I'm not entirely sure I've convinced myself on this.

[Deltabreedy]

I've been looking through for a crumb and haven't found it yet.

---

I think your lolhammer sucks and honestly if we were a day earlier I'd be tunnelling you on a policy lim.

[Deltabreedy]

For context I'm mostly blocking out your lolhammer because I'll try real hard but I'll probably scumread you out of frustration.

---

See I thought the same thing as Datisi which makes me think that they saw that and it guided their shot. It would make sense since it allows an easy lim on me today, Datisi can't be investigation immune as Mafia so offing the cop isn't a bad shout.

I'm convinced now it's Datisi Maf.

[Deltabreedy]

I've been looking through for a crumb and haven't found it yet.

---

I think your lolhammer sucks and honestly if we were a day earlier I'd be tunnelling you on a policy lim.

Well maybe there shouldn't have been so much gridlock and resistance. I grew tired of the resistance and with Don, well, I guess he resisted too much.

That's besides the point.

I'm going to be pushing for FireRed's lim today, so either you can work with me or get in my way.

I'll opt for 'get in your way' thanks. Datisi is mafia.

[Deltabreedy]

See I thought the same thing as Datisi which makes me think that they saw that and it guided their

vote

. It would make sense since it allows an easy lim on me today, Datisi can't be investigation immune as Mafia so offing the cop isn't a bad shout.

what? i didn't kill the cop, the fuck you on about.

unless your claim here is that i saw that YESTERDAY and concluded that don's a cop that investigated shea...? in which case, you have to start with "datisi is mafia" already because there's nothing to say i'm not town who saw what i said i saw yesterday and thought it was a don/shea scumteam.

Amended in bold, should really be attached to my previous.

[Deltabreedy]

Theorycrafting - Datisi Mafia

- Distancing interactions with Shea pages 1-5
- Partner (Shea) dies N1
- Don crumbs Shea result
- Datisi sees this, leads the wagon
- Sheep, Fire and Nurse have all expressed comfort in limming me today
- Kills Roden

- Hopes to see me flip today, can be in the background as people drift towards the mutual wagon which lessens his chance of taking a shot from the SK.

Killing Roden was optimal for Mafia!Datisi as Roden I don't think expressed any huge desire to lim me.

[Deltabreedy]

Yeah nurse to be honest as much as they are actually scum, Datisi has a point. Gutvibes aren't going to do shit for you when you threw a fit at being asked to catch up.

[Deltabreedy]

Okay Nurse

Why -aren't- you suspecting Datisi?

[Deltabreedy]

Is it potentially because you could take them out tonight?

[Deltabreedy]

Nurse do you know the setup

[Deltabreedy]

Because in not so many words, I've just accused Datisi of being Mafia and you of being the SK.

[Deltabreedy]

Okay Nurse

Why -aren't- you suspecting Datisi?

Why are you trying to derail my attention onto someone else?

There's only one Mafia and one SK so there's no reason either of them would want to protect someone other than them.

Because I trust my reads more than I trust yours.

[Deltabreedy]

Nurse do you know the setup

I just looked at it a little while ago.

So you know that SK has a kill tonight.

I honestly think I've cracked it - Nurse SK, Datisi Scum.

Datisi for what I said earlier.
Nurse for setting themselves up to be able to deliberately dumbtell.

[Deltabreedy]

ah i see. my issue is that there's a bunch of other reasons that roden could've gotten shot, many much more intuitive than "datisi got this master plan to yeet delta while also not being on his wagon". same with his thoughts on me seeing things about don. it's taking the conclusion that i'm mafia and then trying to fit all facts into that mold. and i was interested in what you thought about that @fire

Why do you think Roden got shot?

[Deltabreedy]

I'll happily have someone (

that has read the game

) 'audit' my theory but it fits. Nurses' play also fits.

I'll take a lim on either.

---

Ninja'd by Nurse:
Because I trust my reads more than I trust yours.

[Deltabreedy]

what are the odds delta is mafia who thinks i'm SK and is panicking because he knows he really needs to vote the SK out?

This is scum. Nothing concrete or rallying against what I'm saying, just trying to sow seeds of doubt.

Ninja'd: Because you have a lot to gain as scum for the reasons I've explained earlier. It fits what has happened.

[Deltabreedy]

And so because I've taken the information available to me and come to a conclusion, but you don't like the methodology, I have to be wrong.

I mean it'd be fun to see that defence in court. I'm just right on this and I know it in my bones.

[Deltabreedy]

I've taken the information available to me and come to a conclusion

you went the other way around.

but alright then, i have no interest talking to a wall.

Is this it, that's your defense?

It fits, and you can't defend it because I'm right. So you're going to disengage, chuck an ad hominem in there and hope that people recall my shitty argument on you D1.

Nurse won't but that doesn't matter because they're the SK, they'll just off you tonight.

[Deltabreedy]

I'm quick to do this?

Game's been going 2 full days already, nowt quick about this. And I don't need to scumhunt because I've read the fucking game haha I'm confident in my scumreads today, all I need to do is convince others now.

No need to hunt any more.

---

Datisi I'm not your bestie to start off with. I don't react well to condescension so you'd do well not to carry that on.

I also developed the theory from D2 NKA and what would be optimal for scum - it works and then when you add in the bit where you admitted to seeing Don's crumb it rounds it all off. It fits. I couldn't give a toss about good faith - I

know

you're scum and that you've tried to throw so many different counterarguments at me and none have stuck should indicate to everyone else that it's right. Town wouldn't need to scattergun their defense on this.

[Deltabreedy]

Who do you think is scum, and who do you think is the SK?

Has it changed since start of D3?

[Deltabreedy]

Thought we were pumping the brakes, Nurse?

[Deltabreedy]

Can we get some thoughts to chew on before you depart then?

[Deltabreedy]

I can take a nurse lim too - either way we do the other of Datisi/Nurse tomorrow.

UNVOTE: Datisi
VOTE: Nurse

[Deltabreedy]

Nurse how would you know if 'this town' deserves to lose if you haven't read the fucking game

[Deltabreedy]

I've been consistent today with my theorycrafting that Datisi is Mafia and that Nurse is SK.

It doesn't actually matter which of you goes first.

[Deltabreedy]

my current guess would prob be deltabreedy scum datisi town

I forget the rule about what type of this youre supposed to reveal before scum pick kill and f3

Datisi prefers a Lim on me but can't justify why

I've explained my case to you. What about it don't you agree with?

[Deltabreedy]

Bollocks to that though Sheep cause I'm right.

I've not written it down but I mulled it over a lot because yesterday I was pretty tunnelled on Fire so coming to the conclusion that I did forced me to re-evaluate my reads on you and Fire by necessity.

[Deltabreedy]

my current guess would prob be deltabreedy scum datisi town

I forget the rule about what type of this youre supposed to reveal before scum pick kill and f3

Datisi prefers a Lim on me but can't justify why

I've explained my case to you. What about it don't you agree with?

this takes more than I am probably willing to give this day phase sorry

and it's not confident enough for me to leave as legacy

I mean this is where the game is won or lost Sheep so can you maybe rustle up some willpower?

[Deltabreedy]

By not reading the game when they entered, SK!Nurse is able to get away with passivity, and is able to make the case for arguing from vibes.

Nurse isn't looking to vote for Datisi because they have the bullet tonight so that makes it easy enough and they'll then recommit to pushing Nurse but really, no matter which way this goes there's no optimal kill for them and they know it.

This is why they aren't building a case, this is why their play is now all 'woe, woe is me' and 'Town deserves to lose' and that. It's emotive and manipulative and it indicates an absolute absence of any belief in their 'case' outside of 'they aren't me'. This is why they're casing Fire but prefer a Lim on me for quote unquote 'shifty behaviour'.

[Deltabreedy]

they'll then recommit to pushing

Fire

EBWOP

[Deltabreedy]

Vin-di-ca-tioooon!

I don't know if I can use Nurse's reads to be honest because they suspected fire from a gutread from D1 page 3, so there's no real validity there.

I'm about, just waking up.

[Deltabreedy]

My kneejerk is that it's sheep.

Your play feels hunty, theirs not so much.

[Deltabreedy]

Vibes.

They're non-committal, #605 feels fishy and the whole 'I don't see it' RE: Datisi!Scum from like idk #985 or so onwards feels like deflection from the upcoming kill.

[Deltabreedy]

True, but they committed to it after you were saying that I was reasonably towny D3, suggesting that their biggest 'townread' disagreed with the idea of Scum!Delta. Why go against that when they can use it here in D4?

[Deltabreedy]

I'm honestly happy to end this now. Fire?

[Deltabreedy]

I mean I'm waking up and phone posting so I'm light on detail but I don't see it any other way

And yeah, kinda keen on yeeting them before they have an opportunity to try and turn you onto me.

I'll be honest, ideal scenario for me here is we vote and hammer now and ride off into the sunset for tea and medals - if it is infact you, you've played a bonkers good game.

VOTE: Sheep

Let me know if you have any questions and I'll answer. It's the start of my day so I can be around for a while.

[Deltabreedy]

Yeah fair enough

[Deltabreedy]

In the end I just thought the D1 Fire defending Datisi thing on balance was too scummy to be scum, it made sense and I guess I got sucked into it.

GG Fire, as I said - you played a great game.

[Deltabreedy]

Yeah Jesus Christ - Jason loves a pagetop.

Cheers Jason.

[Deltabreedy]

F3?