mystery box of silver 15: i'm killing hostages (negotiated)

[DkKoba]

VOTE: pooky

ok last post for real bc i think i understand ranger now after how badly they double downed on their(faulty) assumption about my frustration/play and sorta the kind of robotic response in 593 actually gave me a key for ranger's thought process-ish.sorry for the flooding! but i will at least say I did not leave empty handed from this so I did not *waste* the threadspace at least.

mainly just wanted to change my vote lolz

ok signing off....

sorry again for the spam

[Alisae]

sorry again for the spam

gives me something to read when I get around to sitting down and reading game

[Ranger]

i think u are actually way better than this as town seeing your townplay and seeing u get into a tunnel like this is uncharacteristic of you

That's the thing.

I'm not tunneling.

You're portraying my read on you as a tunnel.

I've been fairly consistent in stating my reads are fluid and change. I formed an initial weak scumread on you. It was never strong, mostly gut. This read has evolved off the content following. Despite the presence of townier content in the newer posts, the read remains, because of a belief you've demonstrated a lack of sincerity in your 'scumhunting' efforts.

There's certainly doubts to my read! I might express them when not thoroughly exhausted. (I should've been asleep two hours ago.) There's nothing uncharacteristic of me

having

a scumread. If you are pushing the narrative this scumread is some hardcore deathtunnel, that's exactly that; a narrative. It doesn't reflect reality.

Right or wrong, I have a scumread on you. I've good reasons for it. These reasons aren't absolute. They still exist, and are for now, my best lead. I fully admit I could be wrong. I've made many D1 pushes which I thought were for good reasons and learned I was mistaken. Given the balance of evidence I have, you're still my top lead for scum.

i do not believe you found players like Meuh to have a "vibe' that good off those 4 posts.

Given the content of those posts, I did. Meuh had a lighthearted jokey vibe which is disproportionately likely to be +town.

I do drop players in my reads when I don't see posts from them. Or sometimes, the inverse. When I see those players posting again, I resume adjusting their position. I did say so previously, when I specified "recency bias".

ofc doubling down on not explaining and just copping out with "its just how i play" doesnt help.

This is a disingenuous portrayal of my responses. I never doubled down on refusing to explain with "it's just how I play".

[Ranger]

as an autistic person, the autism excuse is weak and boring

I don't recall using autism as an excuse.
I do recall snark about it specifically because of knowing you're autistic and

should

recognize the variance.

Naturally, I

am

capable of citing posts to make points very easily. I've never said I can't. Quite the opposite. I've acknowledged I

can

.

What I

have

specified, is I'm not capable of citing posts

right now

. Autism doesn't make for a consistent response which will always be exactly the same. Capabilities

vary

on different days. And

today

, I'm incapable of it. I've the full capability for it on a

different

day.

[Ranger]

is what i am assuming ranger has at best, and if so they should actually say that.

The Team Mafia game is the first to come to mind, yes.

I'll research on my own when I've the ability to.

[Ranger]

i just want someone to have a nuanced and deep conversation about mafia with rather than this stupid debunking cycle that i get into every other towngame because i have to teach people how to not assume things and if they *do* assume to LISTEN to the clarification.

I'm rather certain I'm not the player clinging to assumptions in this debate.


I'll recognize 582 as making me reconsider my scumread, among others. I'll process it as I can.

[Alisae]

UNVOTE:

[Alisae]

when I read I wanna see if the posting that I haven't caught up changes anything.

[Ranger]

did u know.. um.. that.... peoples scumgames.. um... tend to mimic their umm,.,............ towngames sometimes.. super CRAZY i know.

Sure. Success isn't guaranteed though, particularly given different inherent motives and knowledge bases. Scum have a motive different from town and between motive and knowledge, their approach differs. I believe town motivators can be present in town by scum not being able to portray them. I believe town motivators can be present in scum by scum being able to portray them. I believe scum indicators can be present in town because of town imperfections combined with scum imitation. I believe scum indicators can be present in scum because of scum revealing their alignment.

I previously believed your demonstrated town indicators were scum mimicking your towngame. I previously believed your demonstrated scum indicators weren't town imperfections and were a betrayal of your alignment.

I'm less certain now.

idk how u cant see that im actually trying to pull answers out of you!

I'll say I see this in 583, and some of your more recent posting. As I said, not tunneled. I'll say I certainly didn't see them for most of this back-and-forth. If I looked back, your very first engagement was likely also pulling answers out. A great deal of the early-middle section, I saw only accusation. I'll say I believe there's no accusation in this post, at the very least, which combined with prior doubts, warrants consideration.

For you to be scum would require you to have adapted your strategy on the fly and completely changed tactics towards this. Not impossible...yet not likely. Given the unlikelihood of scum fluidly shifting as you have in this way, I've talked my way into a townread. I've doubts, yet I don't feel content wagoning you.

VOTE: xyzzy
Would also vote ofhrz.

[Ranger]

in fact after like page 5 theyve stayed pretty much the same!

Despite my belief you're not accusing me, I'll state this is false though. I've not posted a readslist since the beginning of the back-and-forth to demonstrate the change. My reads did shift considerably. The very top and very bottom remained identical. Every middle position changed.

[Ranger]

i am literally sacrificing sleep to prove u wrong.

You're not alone in losing sleep.

Fortunately, it did bear fruit regardless of your alignment as I lean town by some unknown amount rn. I'll have a visualization of how much when I do my last readslist of the night.

[Ranger]

{SirCakez, PookyTheMagicalBear, Doctor Drew}
{Skygazer}
{Meuh}
{The Buldge}
{DKKoba}
{HighPrincessErinys}
{Alisae}
{Dannflor}
{MUSHSHAGANA}
{BlueSnakelet}
{iamveryhappy}
{sheepsaysmeep}
{Morning Tweet}
{RCEnigma}
{xyzzy}
{ofrhz}

Imperfect readslist, too tired to ruminate further. The answer to how town I think Koba is: apparently, quite a lot. Not strongly (that's Meuh and above), not weakly (that's Alisae and below), still a lot.

Readlist definitely has some stale tiers to fix Wednesday.

[Dannflor]

Ranger, do you have any words to put to your read on me

[Dannflor]

WOO 10 pages discussing meta

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok dont let me post for (expired on 2023-08-09 13:35:09)

i have posted more than 2x the next highest person and people are prob gonna kill me for flooding thread anyways and making it "unreadable" lol

o well

i will claim if needed but otherwise radio silence

roflmao

[Meuh]

ok funny moment but i think ranger probably not rly that scummy after a little meta dive bc all they posted for a little bit in a town game was those readslists lmao


regardless,

VOTE: Alisae

I'm pretty sure that's NAI and just how Ranger posts? Did you check any scum games?

[Meuh]

actually looking this over, wtf are these reads lists


link to actual in game stuff pls

[meta]hi schadd just in case ranger is town, the reads lists that ranger has presented are objectively pretty scummy in nature, they are supposedly from early pages, however Meuh is somehow top 4 despite only having 4 posts and are similar in content to mine, however I was put at the bottom vs meuh. god bless tommy edman[/meta]

I really don't get this point? Players can make a similar amount/density of content and one can be townie and the other scummy? Or is this just an "objectively scummy" point you're making jokingly

[Meuh]

ok im just gonna park VOTE: ranger

this game's vibes are insufferable bc there is so much bad faith going around, impossible standards for slots being tunneled(yeah maybe think about whether the person you are pushing, if you applied the standards you are giving them to anyone else, how would you feel about that slot?), and no interactivity with anyone


also drew quite frankly, i am very insulted that you called my genuine reasoning not explaining anything.
the fuck am i supposed to say? i gave my genuine reason. accept it or dont, dont accuse me of not explaining anything just because you failed to comprehend what i said

I just honestly don't get where this frustration is coming from
I don't think people have been acting in bad faith? They just haven't approached the game or their read on you in the way you'd like them to

[Meuh]

Feels very scum being scumread for the "wrong reasons"

[Meuh]

curious that since my activity sharply picked up, not a single peep from people on my wagon on whether the new evidence has changed anything for them

some are just afk! others im just p sure are scum tbh

What new evidence lmao you're just calling your wagon bad and saying Ranger's approach to reads (which seems NAI to me) is scummy

[Meuh]

Like wow there sure are a lot of posts there that don't actually change my mind about anything in the slightest

[Meuh]

It's dawning on me that this back and forth is doing nothing for the game at hand, this little song and dance has gotten boring now.

At least make it look like a real fight at this point.

So real

[Meuh]

It's dawning on me that this back and forth is doing nothing for the game at hand, this little song and dance has gotten boring now.

At least make it look like a real fight at this point.

youre not helping with comments like this, go away unless you have something to contribute

I am contributing, this is such contrived theater between you two.

when have you ever seen theater like this? please link a game, i want to congratulate those players on being such great scum players.

viewtopic.php?t=89094
Literally the only scumgame I've seen you play had you do a bunch of theatre with your partner (Dwlee) early on that I fell for

[Meuh]

I'm sorry but Koba's complaining about people being bad faith when their points just do not seem genuine

[Meuh]

(Fwiw I'm not really convinced of Pooky's alignment either way, but I think brushing off the idea of Pooky/Koba being scum theatre doesn't rly make sense and Koba would obviously know it's theatre they're capable of)