Mini 2307 | Songs from Glee! | Endgame
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Day 1 gives me anxiety-
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Scumhunting is hard-
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For me, I have more information the later the game goes and so I can build an actual case without going crazy.-
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I actually think in normal queue the flavor is specifically supposed to be separated from having specific roles.In post 70, OopsieDaisy wrote:
I'm not rly a mechtalk person but are we sure the theme/flavour even has a link to the setup in the first place?In post 65, iamveryhappy wrote: want to setup solve someone? I'm clearly incapable of doing it on a kindle
Like I don't rly see the use in speculating about the set-up at the start of Day 1 when none of the games I've played in or read so far in the normal queue have had a noticeable link between flavour and roles. Albeit this is just from my experience someone correct me if I'm wrong here.
Also the roles need to be Normal so no singer or screamer I think?-
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Is RN new?In post 77, KittyTacky wrote:
Exchange feels town, especially with RN being newish to MS.In post 39, Random Nurse wrote: From my perspective I've experienced so many players in their own little boxes that presume Scum/Town must play this way or that way.
How do you best navigate Day 1? I'm sure you know my main and that I struggle with Day 1 in general.-
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In post 80, PenguinPower wrote:In post 79, KatyKimFanClub wrote: Is RN new?In post 39, Random Nurse wrote: How do you best navigate Day 1? I'm sure you know my main and that I struggle with Day 1 in general.
Not that it really matters, but I only included the RN quote from 39 there because it implied he wasn't new.-
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I don't think Singer is a normal role (at least according to the wiki).
It's unclear to me whether Normal games are even allowed to have flavor to the extent that specific role speculation is possible, though I am interested in someone answering this question for me.-
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KatyKimFanClub he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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It's pretty accurate, but I don't think it means that much on Page 4. There are a couple of people in this game I've played with before as both scum and town, so I don't think it would be fair to assume I wouldn't change my meta to adjust for that. If I were you, I would have probably held onto that to try to get a better read later in the Day.
Turning this onto an analysis of you: The chain of logic here seem moderately +town. I don't think I buy the "oh, I just realized KKFC was in that game too, here are my thoughts on KKFC by the way" transition, but I don't really think that means much.
Question for Daisy, would you believe me if I told you I'm trying to merge my honestly-quite-distinct-as-of-two-completed-games town and scum metas?-
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I LOL'edIn post 115, iamveryhappy wrote:
I'm pretty sure people know how to readIn post 114, Random Nurse wrote: An erroneous lim because the mod miscounted a vote, in a game of Mafia, is bad.
WHY are you arguing?
I'm arguing because I refuse to say I'm wrong.-
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I don't think I'm going to spend any energy trying to solve iavh slot this game.-
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I mean, you're trying to use a meta read on Page 4. I'm not really sure what you think the appropriate response or discussion would be. Here are all my posts by Page 4 from the game you've read.
In post 17, KatyKimFanClub wrote: Hey everyone, I'm new to forum mafia but I've played on epicmafia and in person before. I'm super excited to play with y'all!
VOTE: VOTE: Cook-
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Sure, but saying I failed the reaction test when it was pretty obviously one seems a little harsh, right?-
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Considering playing a game by only using quotes from ITYSL. Feel like I wouldn't last very long though.-
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@PP is there a correlation between these two posts?In post 166, PenguinPower wrote: hmm....skygazer could actually be scum...interesting-
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Let's hold on to our horses. I haven't even had my coffee yet and I'm at E-1.-
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If I'm following your logic, you think Skygazer and I are the scumteam then?-
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KatyKimFanClub he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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I don't think he would put me at the top of a readslist if so, especially since I haven't really done anything yet this game. If anything, given what I think are your inherent suspicions of Skygazer, shouldn't you think I'm being set up?-
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Unrelated to game ---
Sometimes I see posts made to the thread between the time I started writing a post and when I submit and sometimes I don't. Is there a known reason for this? Like if I have multiple tabs of the same thread open or?-
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Uh........... what?In post 206, Elements wrote: Intent to hammer-
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Nevermind, I thought you were using 159 for your read on Skygazer in 166. In my head, I was just thinking like "wait why does this guy scumread me for Skygazer townreading me?"In post 215, PenguinPower wrote: who is setting you up and how?-
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Yes but sometimes I don't get the pedit even with posts being made in the interim.In post 222, PenguinPower wrote:
it's called a preview edit (p-edit) and it's intentional so you don't actually hammer if you don't mean to or need to address something that was posted while you were writingIn post 217, KatyKimFanClub wrote: Unrelated to game ---
Sometimes I see posts made to the thread between the time I started writing a post and when I submit and sometimes I don't. Is there a known reason for this? Like if I have multiple tabs of the same thread open or?-
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KatyKimFanClub he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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A little confused as to what I've done (or not done!) to get 5 people to scumread me this early into a game.
Weirdly, I think Daisy and Skygazer might be the only people on this wagon to truly believe in a case against me?
I'm most confused by Elements claiming intent to hammer for sure though.-
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Eh, I can see why you scumread for that, but it's very much an intentional decision.
I'm not interested in giving away my reads this early, nor do I care about advancing the game state if I think that the current one is good enough for town. If you would like me to elaborate on my philosophy, I can, but as an example, I think I get more towards solving the game if I can keep disscussion on why Daisy and iavh think a meta read on me is relevant by Page 4 than if I move on to a different topic.
I guess to clarify my position, advancing the game state is generally good, but I don't really see what giving my reads this early would really do. We have a lot of time left in the day to gather information and I don't think there's been enough time in the game for me to have a significant change in opinion on people's alignments yet.-
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If the idea is that y'all (collective y'all) want to speed up the game and think that my not giving reads is impeding, and so you're going to wagon me for a reaction, then fair play.
I will say it's very easy to look like you're advancing the game state by throwing votes onto someone, and in fact this is probably what at least one scum member would be doing right now.-
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Take 1 is saying that this is what PP should be wondering.In post 237, Skygazer wrote:In post 214, KatyKimFanClub wrote: I don't think he would put me at the top of a readslist if so, especially since I haven't really done anything yet this game. If anything, given what I think are your inherent suspicions of Skygazer, shouldn't you think I'm being set up?
These two takes feel incompatible (granted i just had a read flip flop myself but yeah)In post 233, KatyKimFanClub wrote: Weirdly, I think Daisy and Skygazer might be the only people on this wagon to truly believe in a case against me?
Take 2 is my own opinion.-
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Fair, but if your worry is that I'm being fed lines by a partner, then I hope I've assuaged some of those suspicions by now?-
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Wasn't that the point of the wagon in the first place? to force me to react? Not sure why your tone sounds like you've caught me in some gotcha or something lol.In post 241, PenguinPower wrote:
allow us to ask why and....advance the gamestate.In post 236, KatyKimFanClub wrote: but I don't really see what giving my reads this early would really do.
In general, I don't really believe in my reads this early into a game. In an ideal world, the way I would like to find scum would be looking at pairwise interactions and also consistency in how they've played the game.-
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And both of those ideas take a little bit of time. I think when we get down into it it's mostly just that I don't have confidence in forming strong reads early and so I'd rather spectate and focus on defending myself as the game starts to speed up.-
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I thought that was the implication when you said "time management" and from posts 196 and 240 with PP.In post 246, Skygazer wrote:
1) what an interesting conclusion to jump toIn post 242, KatyKimFanClub wrote: Fair, but if your worry is that I'm being fed lines by a partner, then I hope I've assuaged some of those suspicions by now?
2) so you're saying your partner is inexperienced and unhelpful?-
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In post 245, PenguinPower wrote:
noIn post 243, KatyKimFanClub wrote: Wasn't that the point of the wagon in the first place? to force me to react?In post 177, PenguinPower wrote:
If I've been coming across as fairly nonchalant in my responses to people, to be honest this post has been why.In post 177, PenguinPower wrote: i mean - the answer is no, scum could jump on them as an easy push....but, early D1 wagons almost never lead to an elim so now seems like a weird time to do that.
I guess I should ask you why you think I'm scum, PP?-
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If you're not voting me for a reaction then you're voting me because you think I'm scum, right?In post 245, PenguinPower wrote:
noIn post 243, KatyKimFanClub wrote: Wasn't that the point of the wagon in the first place? to force me to react?-
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I don't really think it's fair to say that I haven't engaged with the people scum reading me?-
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I'm a little confused by what you mean honestly.-
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KatyKimFanClub he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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In tone, yes, but I think taking the comment where I say "nonchalant" and scumreading it is a weird conclusion to take out of the last few pages where I clearly have been very attentive to defending myself.In post 256, Skygazer wrote: "not engaging" might have been a poor choice of phrasing but you yourself admitted you werent taking it seriously-
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Your logic is getting more tenuous as this thread progresses and I don't like that. If you're grasping at straws or if this was all for a reaction then that's fair. What I don't like are the arguments in 252 and 255 especially since you're whole posture on this wagon has been "yes I scumread you from your ISO and here are my reasons"
In 252, your take-away from 249 is that I haven't really been engaging in my defense of myself. It just looks to me like you found a word to push on and are trying that. I'm clearly referring to my tone here, and that is quite different than what you're talking about specifically because you mention "engaging". It doesn't make any sense to scumread me for a lack of engagement given the last few pages.
In 255, you're scumreading me for jumping to assuming timing tells refer to possible mafia partners? To be honest, I thought this was the dominant takeaway from looking at people's timing in their posts. Either way, my comment about post timing is saying "shouldn't you be townreading me for this if you're townreading PP for it". I don't really get why that's suspicious at all, I'm saying you should have the same conclusion for timing tells between two players right?-
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your whole posture*-
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Just as a fun teaser, Daisy do you want to answer why it would be reasonable for me to think this?In post 259, KatyKimFanClub wrote: In 255, you're scumreading me for jumping to assuming timing tells refer to possible mafia partners? To be honest, I thought this was the dominant takeaway from looking at people's timing in their posts.-
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In post 261, PenguinPower wrote: what if it's not a timing tell but based on the content that was expressed
what if...
Are you talking about your own interactions with Skygazer here or 255?-
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In post 265, PenguinPower wrote: I'm saying you should have the same conclusion for timing tells between two players right?
Ok, I see where you guys are coming from now.In post 240, Skygazer wrote:
You're also the scummiest in my PoE at the moment... Penguin had some good real time engagement with me...
Honestly when I read 240 I interpreted it along the lines as Skygazer townreading a "good response time". Hence my question of why he didn't extend the same read to me.-
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Probably Skygazer if he keeps pushing 252 otherwise probably just Elements since I think he's just openwolfing as scum.-
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Admittedly, I feel better about Skygazer's push after reading 240 more carefully.-
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Well, I've been pretty busy defending myself. Yes, I could have voted my strongest scumread and use my vote as an indicator of my reads but I was hoping to finish this conversation thread before moving to offense.In post 269, PenguinPower wrote: so why aren't you voting?-
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In post 266, PenguinPower wrote: katy, if you were forced to vote right now who would you vote?
Are these two part question/hammer type posts meant to be some sort of gotcha? They're kinda funny.In post 269, PenguinPower wrote: so why aren't you voting?-
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I think it's just your tone. Sorry if you're not trying to come across the way I just think a lot of the zingers paired with the ...'s make me feel a little bit dismissed?-
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In post 252, Skygazer wrote: about to go back to the grind but generally nonchalantness is a scum tell from my experience; nsg has caught me a few times bc i didn't engage in people scum reading early me in hopes it would just go away. town usually engage more when they get scumread despite the unlikeliness of getting eliminated early
Discord amongst the brain trust...In post 274, PenguinPower wrote: tbh your defensiveness is fairly scummy-
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This is such a big narrowing of a scumpool and it's exactly everyone who isn't on the wagon or hasn't interacted positively with it. I don't really know what it means besides the possibility that Skygazer is that confident in me?In post 227, Skygazer wrote: as of right now i think scum is in kkfc/random nurse/IAVH/Delta
Yes, Iavh is on the wagon, but that vote on me is from the day before and sheeping Daisy's meta read. I don't think it "counts" in that sense.-
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Skygazer reads a lot like someone who has a strong set of personal heuristics for what is +town and what is +scum and so I think I buy something as aggressive as the really narrow scum pool in 227 and their push on me?
Though if you can narrow down scum to 4 people in 9p you've already won the game.
I'd say its more likely for Skygazer to be town than PP (most confident on these reads) but honestly I'm pretty null on PP.
Only other significant opinion I have is that I'm still upset that Daisy is using a meta read on Page 4 and that it gained traction. Maybe a little +scum as of response to 263?-
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If you wanted my full set of reads Daisy, it feels to me like Elements and IAVH are just going to openwolf (I use this word a lot and I really hope it means what I think it does. Based on google-fu it does) this game.
I don't really have a read on Delta since they're catching up out of V/LA.
Kitty hasn't posted in a while but I feel like I like that slot given what I just reread. 78 comes across as genuine enough.-
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It makes me feel better, yes.In post 328, OopsieDaisy wrote:
Would it help your read if I told you that in mini norm 2302 I, as town, also brought up meta points to create/inform pushes at the start of the game?In post 294, KatyKimFanClub wrote: Only other significant opinion I have is that I'm still upset that Daisy is using a meta read on Page 4 and that it gained traction. Maybe a little +scum as of response to 263?-
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In post 309, Deltabreedy wrote: I'm getting some bad vibes since coming off V/LA from KKFC, I don't see much justification for 'openwolfing' which is their justification for scumreading Elements and IAVH and since it's not backed up with a vote, it comes across as cautious scum to me rather than cautious townie.
I don't scumread either really. If you mean justification for why I think they're openwolfing, it just looks to me like neither is trying to look very town. iavh with the setup speculation involving non-Normal roles and then posts like 115 or 141 that get pretty self-referential and play into the existing trope? Elements I just didn't really get the intent to hammer post and then subsequent disengagement from the game (maybe just busy or timing, idk)
If you meant justification for why I scumread them for openwolfing, I don't really? I figure for iavh that he gets scumread regardless of alignment quite often and so there's no need to put energy into looking town. For elements I'm not sure, but the "intent to hammer" post seems brazen enough that I don't know how often scum does it this early into the game.
A lot of people are getting on me for not voting, but I don't really have a counter wagon prepared yet. I'll vote when I'm more ready.-
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So you intended to hammer me without any reads?In post 342, Elements wrote: I have noticed there's only 3 and a half days left so I should probably get some reads-
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VOTE: Elements
If the idea was to provoke a reaction or a defense, then you should probably have considered the fact that there was already significant pressure on me. Seems like a lazy attempt to get on a wagon with the fallback defense of "reaction farming". Especially after you admit you don't have any reads.-
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Seems legit enough.
UNVOTE:-
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In post 385, OopsieDaisy wrote: For the most part I agree with this logic, I think if KKFC has a partner it's probably somewhere in [RN, Kitty] for not being there to protect their partner (Delta would've fallen into this group but he sussed KKFC p hard when he came back) or if there is a paired scum around the push it would be in [IAVH, Elements].In post 386, OopsieDaisy wrote: But yea [RN, Kitty, IAVH, Elements] is 4/7 of the possible partners in the game (from my POV ofc), and this is if we discount the more wifommy bussing situations with the others that I don't rly wanna explore right now
So you're pretty confident that I am not getting bussed. I think I am getting town vibes from Skygazer and I don't really have an opinion of PP pushing me or Delta scumreading me yet. I like Delta pushing on iavh, but I am wary of his scumread on me during his reread. It seems like a somewhat safe way to keep a possible miselim open. Especially after you unvote me in 288 with a caveat that you're ok re-committing to the wagon later. As town I think he's going into that with much more of a hammer mentality though.
If I'm town who among the people pushing me do you think is scum (if any)?-
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Their reasons are pretty different than yours/iavh's though.In post 389, OopsieDaisy wrote: However I do feel the wagon on you was fairly justified, at least from my POV of reactive/defensive play typically being scummy, so I don't read these players as all that scummy right now because I agreed with the reasons why they were pushing you-
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KatyKimFanClub he/himMafia Scumhe/him
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1563
- Joined: June 5, 2023
- Pronoun: he/him
It seems to me you're going through this analysis with the expectation that other people are going to be playing straightforwardly. Like I'm defensive so I have something to hide, or iavh says he's sheeping you so he's town. I don't think this game is going to be that straightforward. Then again, this makes you trust me a little more than I did yesterday.-
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KatyKimFanClub he/himMafia Scumhe/him
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 1563
- Joined: June 5, 2023
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Agree with this pretty much. I could see a nullread on IAVH but it's hard for me to give evidence or imagine a reason for him to be town at this point in the game.In post 397, Deltabreedy wrote:
Why? I really disagree they're doing anything in the town interest right now so to see someone outright labelling them town is weird to me.In post 395, KittyTacky wrote: KKFC gives me more null pings than IAVH but no actual scum pings. IAVH town tho.-
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KatyKimFanClub he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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I agree that labelling them as town is a tough sell. Personally I think he's the definition of null (imagining chaotic neutral on an alignment chart).-
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KatyKimFanClub he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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Oh I see the issue with my wording. When I say "reason for him to be town" I really meant "reason for him to be townread". Sorry.-
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KatyKimFanClub he/himMafia Scumhe/him
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 1563
- Joined: June 5, 2023
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Today? Yeah.-
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KatyKimFanClub he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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- Posts: 1563
- Joined: June 5, 2023
- Pronoun: he/him