Guns & Roses VI [Game Over]

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

With so many roses, there doesn't seem to be a need to be secretive about claims this time, maybe.

Assumption "All mafia and some townie picked guns" asking for self.

Picking rose as scum is hard to justify.

Dunn

and

Enchant

open with similar themes,

Dunn

saying there isn't a need to be secretive and

Enchant

goes on to push for massclaim after making an assumption that mafia cannot be rose.

VOTE: Celebloki

Bad vibes

Noted

VOTE: malakittens
Still confused and kinda bothered by the suggestion that I’m skilled with mech, I can handle it but I would not say I’ve been pivotal to helping win a game that way

How does that make them mafia as opposed to just being wrong?

+1 good question actually

i do not think there are any advantages to doing so

maybe

i mean i could see some but
without trackers or anything like that there is no way to prove someone could visit if we have less then four people claim gun

The advantage is that we know there are 10 roses and 4 guns:

If mafia fake claim rose we know we can trust the gun claims

If mafia true claim gun they can be held accountable for where they are targeting

The downsides to claiming is that mafia can then target the guns. And the knowledge of guns today may not be helpful.

I like this point arguing against massclaim.

I think massclaim is good, so we force everyone who claimed gun to shot each other, because i don't believe Mafia didnt Went full 3 gun fun.

Wheme is conftown, unless atleast one gun claims.

Enchant

posits

Wheme

conftown with the mafia = all gun route, and relays a plan for all the guns to circle kill the other... I don't understand the town-motivation behind this. I know with

Alisae

there's an explicit scumread outside of their idea about how guns function in this game, but this feels like it could be

Enchant

wanting role information to tailor potential NKs. The town-motivation is less straight-forward if any is present, especially because the

Wheme

townread here was false.

I think massclaim is good, so we force everyone who claimed gun to shot each other, because i don't believe Mafia didnt Went full 3 gun fun.

Wheme is conftown, unless atleast one gun claims.

I never would go for that if I have a gun. I would shoot my reads period.

I smell you don't have it.

This actually does ping a bit like rolefishing, tbh. Kind of wondering if

Bulge

picked up on that.

I think after Wheme claimed gun, all 3 other guns are mafia and it's all pointless.

Weird logic loop, even with this read being false, it's positing that only town gun would claim.

i want to move off rvs but no one has scumpinged me yet so someone do that please

Fluffy posting

i do think the guns/roses claim discussion over the past few pages has been generally town-motivated

I didn't agree when I first read that

ok so why did you decide to pick rose?

Because it implues mafia need to remove me at some point.

The post preceding the lie that

Ari

caught.

I think massclaim is good, so we force everyone who claimed gun to shot each other, because i don't believe Mafia didnt Went full 3 gun fun.

Wheme is conftown, unless atleast one gun claims.

I never would go for that if I have a gun. I would shoot my reads period.

I smell you don't have it.

I might. I might not. Why are you speculating?

Because i have nothing to do.

Likelyhood you picked rose as town are 90%.
Maybe higher.

It seems you started this conversation assuming that Titus is town by saying you believe they are a rose. I think this is potentially weird, you have a strange perspective here.

See, this is actually a take I agree with on

Dunnstral

, their diction just feels off to me. I'd figure a townie would have a more articulate thought than "strange perspective" and actually do something with teeth here, like a vote or harder push.

:/
I just stated scum can also win if all town roses are dead
That’s been a thing in every run of this setup

I've never played this setup before but it just feels silly to me to pick rose as mafia - I'd pick gun every time

I am inclined to agree with this. Extra kills are more powerful for mafia than for town. On the other hand I've played a run of this setup where town only had 3 roses at the start and it felt pretty doomed.

The reasoning here makes sense, even though I disagree with the very premise that mafia are always going to be guns here.

The other game with 3 roses was a mafia win, after all.

I thought enchants answer was a banger

Ima shoot Ali I think

Wondering where

Ali

came from here.

Ok you got me i did in fact pick gun.

I pretended i townread wheme, so i can shot wheme in the face without being shot back but i guess it's blatant i always pick gun.


Bruh game.


So yeah. Crosskill?

The post where

Enchant's

stance on his claim and

Wheme

completely 180

VOTE: enchant
looks like a flailing wolf to me, this feels notably different from just normal Enchant scumminess

Feels slightly superficial read here, like I can see anyone coming up with this as a justification to vote

Enchant

. Am I being too harsh on

Cakez

?

Of course you can't let me shot wheme, until she wastes gun on some random townie, uhum.

I see this as attempt to powerlim me so Wheme can say "oh i joked i am in fact rose" on D2.

Posits that

Wheme

will waste a gun, but not that they're scum?

Also says that the votes are an attempt to powerlim so

Wheme

can say they lied about their claim... I am wondering what made

Enchant

want to do massclaim if they presumed who would claim is lying.

Why would you shoot Wheme?

Fair question, I'm not sure an

Enchant

-partner would give attention to this publically

Why would you shoot Wheme?

Cuz i am only town gun.

I don't believe one scum picked rose.

Same justification, only town gun can be

Enchant

... which is ???? Completely wild assessment to me. How can nobody else conceive the idea of town-gun if they themselves do?

Actually... if you are a town gun, why are you claiming instead of just shooting at night?

BeCaUsE EnChAnT NeVeR pIcK rOsE aS tOwN.

I TRIED to hide until i get my shot, i just realised that if i get wagoned to E-1, people just disbelieve me and it's blatant i am lying anyway.


So if pick rose, everyone push me for picking rose and when i do pick gun, everyone still push me, because they can't bear mind that i do have gun.

Literally unplayable.

It's not about the gun, it's about how you interacted regarding the claims and your reads.

yeah, I don't understand the drive for the D1 claims, seems senseless to me

At this point it is likely too late

The gun claims are likely either both town or 1 town 1 mafia

Mafia know everybody else is a rose

Town /maybe/ has 1 more gun hidden, assuming one of the current claims is mafia.

Hmmmmm...

On one hand, I like this post superficially because

Dunn

is giving a very real possibility of TvT here. But they aren't really doing much to caution the current suspicion alongside this. I also wonder if this post can come from an informed perspective.

I think enchant is town

K.

i think you are mafia w/ enchant

This seems unlikely

Tbh,

Dunn

, how has your

Wheme/Enchant

reads evolved and do you really think an

Enchant

flip is good here?

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

Why?

Like I mentioned before, I don't feel that

Celebloki

said much to suggest

Enchant/Wheme

cannot be scum, so this feels like a purposeful counterwagon. The intentions behind that are less clear.

Regarding 261 by Malakittens I don't think Enchant was ever scumread for "picking gun". I do believe the reasons were: "enchant is claiming rose but would pick gun as town", "enchant is being deceptive", and "enchant is a flailing wolf". In light of that I find post 261 pretty suspicious.

DO YOU GUYS WANT TO FIND ANSWER URSELF OR WANT MY HELP

Yes

Ali’s reasoning is very weird

Still want you to explain this

I have so many thoughts I don’t want to share I am a genius

K...

Wheme's

posts aren't really giving much and that's intentional. Really helping me sort that slot... /s

VOTE: The Bulge

Interesting, I wonder where this came from, and also where the feels on

Celebloki

dissipated, was it because

Celebloki

wanted to counterwagon him and

Enchant

?

Is this your defense of eliminating

Wheme

over yourself D1...?

If you eliminate Wheme, who i will shot?!

Just let crosskill happen, fools.

Never convinced by your reasoning for killing

Wheme

Idk, Titus maybe.

K? More focus on

Titus

Enchant picking gun is NIA for me
I don’t really see why people are scumrrading enchant for it

Can you point to somebody scumreading Enchant for picking gun.

Mind meld
No one thinks that's why Enchant is scummy.

Cakez

parroting

Dunn

on something I actually had the similar perception as

Celeblok

I feel like Enchant and Wheme both being scum is almost like *too easy*? Like I feel like they would have solved this shit in scum chat or something by now. And they are both a little naturally scummy I think

I never really like these types of posts. It always feels like an easy out to backpedal when a read is correct or incorrect when convenient. The whole idea about scum solving this in their chat is WIFOM. The benefit of the doubt that

Cakez

supposes here is muddled by the previous statements, so I'm left feeling less sure on what

Cakez's

actual read of

Enchant

and

Wheme

and their wagons are.

Ali want to vote bulge with me

Another

Bulge

reference with no clear prompt from the other ISOs I've grouped here.

So Taly you go over my iso here. Where am I repeating what other people are saying here?

As for your response to 205 I never called Enchant mafia, never voted for Enchant. I see now that Alisae has claimed gun so that may change as I read up.

This oversimplifies why I scumread you. A lot of it is that you're very passive in this game in a way I don't think is natural.

As for misrepping you, sorry about that. ISO dive probably got me mixed up.

Conclusions from 509

- Able to see

Dunn

with some town motive. +Town
- Grievance with

Cakez's

posting strengthens -Town
-

Celebloki

,

Titus

,

Aristeia

,

Alisae

, and

The Bulge

are good next potential ISO groupees. Namely

Celebloki

and

Bulge

at the moment.
-

Wheme

does not make anymore sense to me, except for perhaps why they do not scumread

Celebloki

~Null
- I don't feel my suspicion on

Enchant

was absolved. ~Scum

idk i want both

dunn

and

cakez

flipped, they have failed the vibe check

Huh. What is changing your opinion of me back and forth?

I did like some things you said, I just don't think any of it is strongly AI one way or another, or potentially informed.

I don't think I'm passive, aside from not being here.

[Dunnstral]

This oversimplifies why I scumread you. A lot of it is that you're very passive in this game in a way I don't think is natural.

Here is what you wrote:

I eluded to this in my earlier post today but I scumread

Dunnstral

because I feel like a lot of their posts are a regurgitation of known information or what someone else said, which doesn't strike me to be on par with a player of their caliber.

I don't think my post is incorrect and I don't t hink you have been able to show where I have been "regurgitating known information".

[Taly]

This is boring me

Do you want to talk about something else?

The reason I didn't point to a specific post is because I don't get new information from what you've said on a level outside of sorting people, at least with earlier posts that was related to mech discussion.

[Alisae]

No that wagon should be Dunn for.

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.
VOTE: SirCakez

Both of these are good takes I was exactly thinking during my read atp.

Anyone else notice that 221 is just a joke post but pisskop calls it a "good take".

Ugh I hate this post

[Taly]

enchant

don't lolshoot me I have cookies

[Taly]

[WhemeStar]

Okay to be fair I thought it was obvious joke but then ppl took it seriously so I was like hmm I can just act like nignt 2 gun maybe mafia kills me night 2

I'm not buying that it was a joke, and if mafia shot you night 2 you would be able to get your own shot off as claimed.

Near the beginning of the game you were asked why you had claimed, and you immediately responded that you thought it had made you clear. Doesn't seem like a joke to me, really. Instead it seems to me that you are now flailing after two people claimed gun after you did.

VOTE: Whemestar

This might not make sense I don’t know how to word things but look

First off this whole post sounds like you know I’m town and it’s confusing me. Second off the only scenario in which claiming gun = being ic is if all mafia are gun and there’s only one town gun. That’s impossible to know which is why it’s an obvious non serious claim and if I’m mafia and I know there’s only one town gun because we’re all guns then why would I claim gun and risk a counter claim. The only way it makes sense for me to be mafia is if I am rose mafia baiting a counter claim and night shot by gun which is a genius idea and I’m glad Ali thinks I would do that but I think that’s out of my range. If I’m scum with a gun claiming gun is just asking for a death wish because you would just get shot. So if you believe I am actually a gun there’s no way I could be scum.

[WhemeStar]

Does that make sense

[Dunnstral]

This is boring me

Do you want to talk about something else?

Not really. Your reasons for suspecting me seem inconsistent between posts, and I don't think you can back up what you said was your reason for suspecting me in 432.

[Taly]

This is boring me

Do you want to talk about something else?

Not really. Your reasons for suspecting me seem inconsistent between posts, and I don't think you can back up what you said was your reason for suspecting me in 432.

I just did back up my reason because it's a feeling I get from your posts at large.

And what of me having an inconsistent view? It hasn't changed the fact that I townread the majority of the playerlist more than you in some capacity or feel that your posts warrant a push.

[Taly]

You cherry picked 802 to where it doesn't show my progression of your read.

[Taly]

My read* It's early

[Dunnstral]

Okay to be fair I thought it was obvious joke but then ppl took it seriously so I was like hmm I can just act like nignt 2 gun maybe mafia kills me night 2

I'm not buying that it was a joke, and if mafia shot you night 2 you would be able to get your own shot off as claimed.

Near the beginning of the game you were asked why you had claimed, and you immediately responded that you thought it had made you clear. Doesn't seem like a joke to me, really. Instead it seems to me that you are now flailing after two people claimed gun after you did.

VOTE: Whemestar

This might not make sense I don’t know how to word things but look

First off this whole post sounds like you know I’m town and it’s confusing me. Second off the only scenario in which claiming gun = being ic is if all mafia are gun and there’s only one town gun. That’s impossible to know which is why it’s an obvious non serious claim and if I’m mafia and I know there’s only one town gun because we’re all guns then why would I claim gun and risk a counter claim. The only way it makes sense for me to be mafia is if I am rose mafia baiting a counter claim and night shot by gun which is a genius idea and I’m glad Ali thinks I would do that but I think that’s out of my range. If I’m scum with a gun claiming gun is just asking for a death wish because you would just get shot. So if you believe I am actually a gun there’s no way I could be scum.

How does the post look like I know you are town? I am accusing you.

I also never said mafia had three guns and that is not something town can assume here either. It is strange that you are running with this as your reasoning as if you know this information to be true, while at the same time defending both gun claims - seems inconsistent to me.

I'm not sure whether you are a rose or a gun. But you claimed gun, and now you are retracting it after receiving pressure which reasoning that I find suspect, and that is what is important to me.

[Taly]

Wait, my progression of my read on you*

[Dunnstral]

You cherry picked 802 to where it doesn't show my progression of your read.

What you are saying there is not the same thing as repeating what other people are saying though. And I don't believe I was repeating mech arguments other people had already made either.

[Dunnstral]

That’s impossible to know which is why it’s an obvious non serious claim and if I’m mafia and I know there’s only one town gun because we’re all guns then why would I claim gun and risk a counter claim.

Why do you bring up there only being one town gun if you are mafia here. I am confused as to where it came from.

[Taly]

Dude, I answered your question. Do you want me to quote post by post my bias on why mech isn't helpful and why I didn't see a clear stance from you in the beginning?

[Taly]

By stance, I'm not talking about massclaiming, I'm talking about reads

[Taly]

Do you have more than 3 reads? Do you see value in talking about them?

[WhemeStar]

That’s impossible to know which is why it’s an obvious non serious claim and if I’m mafia and I know there’s only one town gun because we’re all guns then why would I claim gun and risk a counter claim.

Why do you bring up there only being one town gun if you are mafia here. I am confused as to where it came from.

Because the only way being gun = ic is if all 3 mafia picked gun

[WhemeStar]

And I agree we can’t assume mafia is 3 guns which is why being a gun doesn’t = ic which is why the claim was a joke because ali said they’re taking a gun claim as an IC claim aka assuming mafia is 3 guns

[Taly]

wheme

what is your case on

bulge

[WhemeStar]

I don’t rly have a case I just didn’t like their attack on ari because it made 0 sense and Ari is obv town

[WhemeStar]

Okay to be fair I thought it was obvious joke but then ppl took it seriously so I was like hmm I can just act like nignt 2 gun maybe mafia kills me night 2

I'm not buying that it was a joke, and if mafia shot you night 2 you would be able to get your own shot off as claimed.

Near the beginning of the game you were asked why you had claimed, and you immediately responded that you thought it had made you clear. Doesn't seem like a joke to me, really. Instead it seems to me that you are now flailing after two people claimed gun after you did.

VOTE: Whemestar

This might not make sense I don’t know how to word things but look

First off this whole post sounds like you know I’m town and it’s confusing me. Second off the only scenario in which claiming gun = being ic is if all mafia are gun and there’s only one town gun. That’s impossible to know which is why it’s an obvious non serious claim and if I’m mafia and I know there’s only one town gun because we’re all guns then why would I claim gun and risk a counter claim. The only way it makes sense for me to be mafia is if I am rose mafia baiting a counter claim and night shot by gun which is a genius idea and I’m glad Ali thinks I would do that but I think that’s out of my range. If I’m scum with a gun claiming gun is just asking for a death wish because you would just get shot. So if you believe I am actually a gun there’s no way I could be scum.

How does the post look like I know you are town? I am accusing you.

I also never said mafia had three guns and that is not something town can assume here either. It is strange that you are running with this as your reasoning as if you know this information to be true, while at the same time defending both gun claims - seems inconsistent to me.

I'm not sure whether you are a rose or a gun. But you claimed gun, and now you are retracting it after receiving pressure which reasoning that I find suspect, and that is what is important to me.

Okay but look

It only makes sense to do what I did as mafia if i am mafia rose

Scum gun would never claim gun

[WhemeStar]

And since there’s been only 2 gun claims it’s safe to assume there’s in fact a mafia rose

So if you believe I am a gun why would I claim it and not my teammate