Open 901 - Normal Idea Mafia Redux - Postgame

[JacksonVirgo]

hello hello

[JacksonVirgo]

Also tonight I'll confirm whether or not I was pinned all three nights or if Cakez is probably a true ascetic. If I do get a clear, I won't claim it until necessary

[JacksonVirgo]

How does this relate to her being town? She may be more likely to be town, yes, but as you yourself have shown with Jacob, unlikely things can and do happen.

I believe Skygazer is town and I'm seeing my strongest town-read disagree completely with me so I'm talking about it. I can't convince her that I'm right (or her convince me that she's right) if we just throw the weight of the entire case at each other because we're both independently biased, that doesn't work. So I'm trying to pull it apart as best I can

[JacksonVirgo]

Also math is fun

[JacksonVirgo]

How does this relate to her being town? She may be more likely to be town, yes, but as you yourself have shown with Jacob, unlikely things can and do happen.

I believe Skygazer is town and I'm seeing my strongest town-read disagree completely with me so I'm talking about it. I can't convince her that I'm right (or her convince me that she's right) if we just throw the weight of the entire case at each other because we're both independently biased, that doesn't work. So I'm trying to pull it apart as best I can

Adding to this. She believes it's scum!AI when I disagree so I'm talking about it

[JacksonVirgo]

Don't hammer yet

I'm cooking

Lmao

I was so scared that I would do all that math and counting the roles thread, for a hammer to just be placed and have me delete all the work I was doing lmfao

[JacksonVirgo]

And frankly the "odds don't matter, oh no a hammer intent waaaaaait stop let me calculate the odds!!!" comes off pretty desperate.

-Atalanta

Bitch please, I was excited and didn't want that to go nowhere

[JacksonVirgo]

See I was right town is more likely

even if I didn't know it

bask in my brilliance

Wrong. Jackson correctly calculated the odds of a particular person being a neighbor of a certain alignment (I assume, I didn't double-check the specific math) and then kept spinning the numbers into the overall odds of drawing a neighbor role using the total number of players, which is irrelevant here. We're not talking about the odds of

someone

in the game getting a neighbor role, we're talking about the odds of

Skygazer

getting one as a certain alignment. Which apparently is 3/86 as town, 2/26 as Mafia OR 1/25 as Werewolf. So like I said, notably higher likelihood of it being Mafia.

-Atalanta

Care to explain why it's irrelevant? Because I disagree entirely, the raw chances are shown better when taken into consideration repeated events. Sure, the odds are great and all but like does 3/86 mean anything to you? There's no equal comparison there because the amount of roles in each faction are so different from each other, so I made them equal and fair based on the amount of roles possible AND the amount of roles that we're dealing with (10v3v1)

[JacksonVirgo]

Sure the logic was more vague and not focused on one particular slot but that's meaningless?

[JacksonVirgo]

You can't just like "ah yes, lets stop at this step because it benefits my position more".

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm genuinely asking btw cuz probability is an intimidating field to get right and I don't wanna do it wrong

[JacksonVirgo]

But I should really wait for post-game ig

[JacksonVirgo]

And where the fuck is Shaddow?

I wonder

[JacksonVirgo]

Stopping this talk here, got carried away with an excuse to math

[JacksonVirgo]

There's something Argo said I wanna comment on, lemme find it real quick

[JacksonVirgo]

i'm on team lets not vote out skygazer

I am always on Team Skygazer :]

Unfortunately for you, the team what wants to vote you out :twisted:

Also, and maybe this is a Drew read(err, Asclepius read), but it feels to me that this wagon kinda stagnating and even people hopping off makes me feel like scum thought the wagon would naturally dissipate.......but lack of activity these past few days have forced the hand of the members of scum to leave the wagon to make sure their buddy is not limmed.

Like, usually an early day wagon doesn't stick, so no need for scum to worry too much.......but this one has stuck, with no real counter wagon.

This obviously is only relevant if Sky is Team Scumbutt, but just was something I was thinking about at work today.

-Asclepius

Just before I say what I wanted to say, you'd need some pretty agreeable people in a hydra now that I've realised it cuz imagine a hydra just voting the people they want out and then refusing to let another head get their vote, who also just votes whenever the heads change it. Crazy

Regarding this post, I wanted to sit on this to see what I thought of it given some time to think (I responded to it initially to acknowledge it). What would be the difference between a stagnant wagon (because scum would hope it drops off) to a stagnant wagon because the Town likes where the gamestate is?

I've seen the argument "stagnant game, scum controlled game" my words that I came up with on the spot but I've never seen it framed in the way you said it here. Can you elaborate on that?

[JacksonVirgo]

It reads that's reasoning on your end to consider Sky more wolf, but then you say it's only relevant if they're red so perhaps this is just a post to consider post-flip and I'm reading it wrong?

[JacksonVirgo]

I like the people on the wagon though, I agree with Black's assessment regarding that

[JacksonVirgo]

are you changing your read on Argo, JV?

How shallow do you think my read on him is? Lol, of course not I'm asking to understand their pov

[JacksonVirgo]

I tried going forward with his viewpoint in mind to see if I can vibe with it more than the inverse but I couldn't

[JacksonVirgo]

Misogyny??

[JacksonVirgo]

That was a playful bitch please, should have expressed my tone better

[JacksonVirgo]

not based on just this, was skimming the last few pages and I felt you being pretty defensive around their spot on a way you aren't with Black, for instance

then got curious

Like with the math? Or more than that? But nah, I town-read them pretty strongly

[JacksonVirgo]

That was a playful bitch please, should have expressed my tone better

I'm familiar with the phrase so I know you didn't mean harm, but I probably just wouldn't use that one anymore. Some people haven't heard it used that way or they may just not like being called that even if it has playful undertones

Yeah good idea, thank you

[JacksonVirgo]

I have and it does not matter. I am not on 'playful banter' terms with Jackson and there is no reason for him to have thought we could be. It is an offensive slur used to demean a certain group to keep them in their place and its usage here was totally in line with that. It is not up to him to decide when it's okay to direct a slur at someone else and they should just be okay with it.

I'm sorry for upsetting you, that was the last thing I wanted to do. I didn't think that I was not able to banter with you just because we weren't on particular terms, I don't really understand that but just knowing it's important to you I will stop. I also genuinely did not know the word was that loaded either, so I am sorry for my ignorance there.

[JacksonVirgo]

STD, why the sudden shift against Skygazer?

[JacksonVirgo]

Get your rear into gear for I fear the hammer draws near, ya hear?

At this time of year??

I better go grab a beer!!

[JacksonVirgo]

People won't just listen to you because you were right on a mislim. That's a little silly. If you want something (aka shadow) you should push it now, not consolidate in hopes of you having a better basis for your push tomorrow.

[JacksonVirgo]

dw I can agree twice as much to cover for that

[JacksonVirgo]

Are we still at E-1?

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh perfect timing, thanks

[JacksonVirgo]

That's one mighty position for shadow to be in, but I guess a vig does add more of a risk of hammering for self-pres

[JacksonVirgo]

I mean I don't wanna poke and prod unnecessarily but if it's so terrible wouldn't claiming be more beneficial than just vague "threats"

[JacksonVirgo]

Black isn't the way

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm not entirely convinced it's not you anymore, but I will get back to you. Just woke up but I did catch up

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't think it's a bad play because you actually are convincing people to vote me? What the heck are you talking about

Bro you have two votes

[JacksonVirgo]

Just as I told STD I'll get back to you in more depth relatively soon, I'm not liking what they're doing now by any stretch of the imagination. They're seemingly flailing and stressing over something incredibly little (from what I am reading). I'll put more thought into it in a few hours

[JacksonVirgo]

Sigh

Black: I am putting in effort, it's silly to think scum me would get off sky it wouldn't do anything
Also Black: convinces people to vote Std by saying "more votes on std"

Wanna vote Black with me?

Lol that is never happening

[JacksonVirgo]

It's hardly out of nowhere, though tbf jumping off shadow when you were getting pushed is a good look

[JacksonVirgo]

Okay that made me facepalm a little bit

[JacksonVirgo]

Hammer?

Why are you rushing a hammer?

[JacksonVirgo]

It's hardly out of nowhere, though tbf jumping off shadow when you were getting pushed is a good look

I am not following

What part?

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh, no they unvoted from shadow and then added it back. I thought you were asking someone to hammer lol

[JacksonVirgo]

Did Argo ever respond to me with my question about the wagon on Sky?

[JacksonVirgo]

No, they haven't

[JacksonVirgo]

Anyway free time has been consumed, I gotta go. Will drop a few nuggets of wisdom whenever I get the chance

[JacksonVirgo]

I'll be casing STD and Shadow when I get back, see which one I prefer

[JacksonVirgo]

It's hardly out of nowhere, though tbf jumping off shadow when you were getting pushed is a good look

I am not following

What part?

Did not parse any

What really?
I'm saying that the wagon didn't form out of nowhere, it's been cooking for a long time. It's just actually happening now. In regards to the second part, you got frustrated (or whatever emotion that was) to the wagon forming on you but you didn't commit harder to the current wagon. You jumped off it, which I don't expect from a wolf

[JacksonVirgo]

Just woke up, was a little too busy yesterday to do what I said I was gonna do so I'll get it today

[JacksonVirgo]

What happened to the skygazer wagon

Gone, reduced to atoms.

And thank the lord for that one

[JacksonVirgo]

argo, why is your vibe so scummy to me?

Is it them as a whole, or specific heads

[JacksonVirgo]

Just as I told STD I'll get back to you in more depth relatively soon, I'm not liking what they're doing now by any stretch of the imagination. They're seemingly flailing and stressing over something incredibly little (from what I am reading). I'll put more thought into it in a few hours

I don't think this is an accurate take at all

I'll check for myself when I analyse them and shadow

[JacksonVirgo]

What happened to the skygazer wagon

Gone, reduced to atoms.

And thank the lord for that one

Thanking the lord isn't very metal of you :evil:

By why so happy it has poofed and gone away?

-Ascelpius

I'm trying to sneak into heaven so I can play deathcore there and scare all the angels

[JacksonVirgo]

By why so happy it has poofed and gone away?

Because I think they're Town? Lol?

[JacksonVirgo]

Though now that you're here (your head specifically) can you answer 1429

[JacksonVirgo]

What I mean here though, is that a good amount of the time the first wagon of the day is not the ending wagon, I mean it could end up being the vote but not before other wagons start to happen. So, even with Sky close to a lim scum didn't really need to be proactive to end the wagon initially since the natural ebb and flow of the game would kick in and eventually another wagon would happen......but that wasn't happening since the game was going a bit slow.

I agree with you about the starting wagon stuff. But that didn't really answer my question, unless I'm just really unable to think properly cuz of my headache. I already explained my read on Sky, not really feeling up to repeating myself but I can find the post for you if you want me to

[JacksonVirgo]

1356

Just skimmed, this might not be the right post

[JacksonVirgo]

Why would I not claim? I wanted him dead, I had him scum-read AND checked. I wanted him out

[JacksonVirgo]

Maybe that's a cultural difference, do you usually not claim guilties immediately here?

[JacksonVirgo]

Maybe that's a cultural difference, do you usually not claim guilties immediately here?

What kind of question is this? You've been here for years and have 10k posts, surely you're aware of various strategies investigatives might take with regard to their results. In my admittedly limited experience they're typically shy about outright claiming a guilty and prefer to just make a strong push in hopes of not getting taken out the next night.

-Atalanta

I played here about 10% of the total time I've played mafia, including my substantial hiatus which I'm just recently coming back from and I've never had someone say what you just said regarding hiding a red-check so I was just asking if that's a thing that happens here. Where I'm from, we claim guilties immediately. There's not much utility in hiding a guilty as a 1 for 1 always benefits the Town, I don't wanna play mindgames and push people and claim a guilty later if it doesn't work, that idea sounds so awful to me.

[JacksonVirgo]

Not awful as in the play is bad, but I just don't like playing like that

[JacksonVirgo]

@Black what are your thoughts on Argo?

[JacksonVirgo]

black what's your opinion of jake the wolfie

What are yours?

[JacksonVirgo]

Funny haha about it being pagetop so I can't scroll up

[JacksonVirgo]

Yeah I can agree, they were a solid town voice in the early game but dwindled off but I think that's because only one head is really talking now. I liked their take on jacob before they flipped, it didn't feel like TMI at all looking back

[JacksonVirgo]

OH i get it

scroll up from YOUR post, not mine

it's on this page

Oh lol, I see

[JacksonVirgo]

Don't you think it's a little late for wolves to still be supporting two to consolidate onto later? Are you seeing a Black/Argon/Shadow team?

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh wait I thought we had a lot less time than we did, ignore me.

[JacksonVirgo]

Don't you think it's a little late for wolves to still be supporting two to consolidate onto later? Are you seeing a Black/Argon/Shadow team?

why black?
~o

Did you read their post?

[JacksonVirgo]

Black, you really don't see shadow as a wolf?

[JacksonVirgo]

If you're right on Shadow, I'm wrong somewhere and I don't know where. I thought my stance was pretty clear but I guess not. I don't have a case against shadow, I'm on him as a placeholder that stuck because I don't know where else to go. The other wagons I dislike quite a lot which makes it uncomfortable to reasonably vote anywhere else. I think STD reacted great to the pressure he had especially regarding where he was placing his votes, albeit the behaviour he showed at the start was a little yikes and you already know my stance on Skygazer. The people I scum-read had made me have to look elsewhere or claimed something in a way that shouldn't be focused today so I'm at complete odds of where to go so I'm going with the person I have no real substantial read on because going with people I think are town is not comfortable. I feel that's not ideal, and if you don't see them as a wolf I want to be willing to compromise and vote somebody you wanted beyond my reads but I don't know who I'd be more comfortable to vote out of STD/Skygazer so I'm feeling like sticking here is probably what I'll end up doing. I have to be wrong somewhere though, my inherent "solve" was Jake/Cakez/Shadow and I doubt that's the team.

Where would I be wrong though? Argo perhaps, but unlikely. One of STD/Skygazer maybe considering the confidence people had on Skygazer but I really didn't like the argument Argo had against Skygazer's wagon stagnating. Argo might actually just be a wolf here. I'm probably labelling surface level town-tells to things that shouldn't be town-read. Scum could very easily just counter the push on Jacob for town-points, they must be a good wolf though if that is the case because it doesn't reek of TMI which is the main factor of my town-read on what they've done.

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't know

[JacksonVirgo]

I need to factory reset

[JacksonVirgo]

Maybe that's a cultural difference, do you usually not claim guilties immediately here?

What kind of question is this? You've been here for years and have 10k posts, surely you're aware of various strategies investigatives might take with regard to their results. In my admittedly limited experience they're typically shy about outright claiming a guilty and prefer to just make a strong push in hopes of not getting taken out the next night.

-Atalanta

I played here about 10% of the total time I've played mafia, including my substantial hiatus which I'm just recently coming back from and I've never had someone say what you just said regarding hiding a red-check so I was just asking if that's a thing that happens here. Where I'm from, we claim guilties immediately. There's not much utility in hiding a guilty as a 1 for 1 always benefits the Town, I don't wanna play mindgames and push people and claim a guilty later if it doesn't work, that idea sounds so awful to me.

:thinking:

So this whole sequence was lost on you? You paid no mind to how your scum partner nearly got turbo yeeted because your other scum partner came into the day voting him and townies interpreted it as a guilty? Even when she talked about it in the mafia PT?

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

-Atalanta

I have no idea what you're talking about, mind clarifying?

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh I think I understand but if you think that just because that happened I should immediately just assume the right play is to not claim a guilty, you're sorely mistaken. This line of reasoning is worse than garbage

[JacksonVirgo]

Don't throw down your playstyle down my throat and pretend it means anything, I resent that

[JacksonVirgo]

I did forget that happened at all, it was such a minor event in that game and you're pretending it should have blown my worldview wide open. Lmfao

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm sorry for calling the read worse than garbage, that was uncalled for. I do think this is a huge stretch to jump onto me for, makes me think you're doing it for a reason beyond this argument which like if Skygazer does flip and flips red, I'm seeing partner equity but I don't want to jump to conclusions. Would they jump to me instead of shadow though if they wanted to jump ship? Probably not

[JacksonVirgo]

Actually no, Argo probably would never be a wolf with Skygazer based on the argument they (specifically Drew) made against them

[JacksonVirgo]

Excuse me?

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't think Argo has been treating anybody in the right light today. The one thing I can't let go of is how they responded to the red-check on Jacob because that was townie as hell and is what cemented my confidence on them but "everything" else has been pretty awful. They frame Skygazers wagon in a way that I deem unnaturally weighted to Skygazer being a wolf, it doesn't make a lick of sense. They said that scum would expect the wagon to dissipate and therefore the fact it hasn't means it's likely to be a wolf. Which feels like it's maliciously weighted against Skygazer

There is also the added wrinkle that losing their buddy(scumSky) without having to defend them isn't a terrible play, even if you lose a buddy, since there would be no clear associatives........but now I am starting to ramble a bit lol.

Their response was that "bussing would be good" and didn't explain the reasoning they used at all, it was (what drew said) just rambling which you can check the entire post for yourself I only quoted a small portion of it. I asked so much and waited so long for this response and it was pretty much a deflection. This interaction in particular is what's getting me feeling like I don't like the slot. It doesn't feel like they're (drew specifically) is treating Skygazer in the light that a town would, not saying they can't scum-read Sky that's stupid but the reasoning feels predatory. Especially given the logic they had originally used was enough to convince Drew to switch their town-read of Sky into a scum-read. That doesn't line up, that doesn't compute to me. I don't see how that argument is weighted enough against Skygazer to flip a read, I've been trying to understand it which is why I asked and asked and waited but got nothing satisfying.

Then with another head, their treatment surrounding me reads completely preposterous as they're taking my core philosophy based from the community I own and frequent and throwing it down my throat and scum-reading me because of that. I don't understand that at all, well I understand the thread they're connecting but to connect them you need to stretch that shit so thin that it's incredibly unjustified and feels like you're just trying to find something to push but I'm willing to suspend this particular read because it's recent and I'm pissed off about it. Will let it settle

[JacksonVirgo]

Why would they pair so hard given if they were wolves they'd have a lot of freedom right now

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Argon

This behaviour needs to be scrutinized

[JacksonVirgo]

I am always on Team Skygazer

Unfortunately for you, the team what wants to vote you out

The hell does this mean if it wasn't

[JacksonVirgo]

I skimmed their posts before (it's difficult tbf cuz I have to see the tags) but I see no mention of skygazer as a scum-read at all all the way back between EoD1 and that post. didn't check too far deep in D1

[JacksonVirgo]

I believe that this means that Drew was on team "Let's vote Skygazer out", which they humorously labled as "Team Skygazer".

"I was always on team "lets vote skygazer out" but unfortunately the team wants to vote you out."

[JacksonVirgo]

??

[JacksonVirgo]

What is happening

[JacksonVirgo]

Why the fuck did you say it the way you did if you meant it like that

[JacksonVirgo]

Lmfao that's actually painful, let me errata my post

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't think Argo has been treating anybody in the right light today. The one thing I can't let go of is how they responded to the red-check on Jacob because that was townie as hell and is what cemented my confidence on them but "everything" else has been pretty awful. They frame Skygazers wagon in a way that I deem unnaturally weighted to Skygazer being a wolf, it doesn't make a lick of sense. They said that scum would expect the wagon to dissipate and therefore the fact it hasn't means it's likely to be a wolf. Which feels like it's maliciously weighted against Skygazer

There is also the added wrinkle that losing their buddy(scumSky) without having to defend them isn't a terrible play, even if you lose a buddy, since there would be no clear associatives........but now I am starting to ramble a bit lol.

Their response was that "bussing would be good" and didn't explain the reasoning they used at all, it was (what drew said) just rambling which you can check the entire post for yourself I only quoted a small portion of it. I asked so much and waited so long for this response and it was pretty much a deflection. This interaction in particular is what's getting me feeling like I don't like the slot. It doesn't feel like they're (drew specifically) is treating Skygazer in the light that a town would, not saying they can't scum-read Sky that's stupid but the reasoning feels predatory. That doesn't line up, that doesn't compute to me.

Then with another head, their treatment surrounding me reads completely preposterous as they're taking my core philosophy based from the community I own and frequent and throwing it down my throat and scum-reading me because of that. I don't understand that at all, well I understand the thread they're connecting but to connect them you need to stretch that shit so thin that it's incredibly unjustified and feels like you're just trying to find something to push but I'm willing to suspend this particular read because it's recent and I'm pissed off about it. Will let it settle

EBWOP removed " Especially given the logic they had originally used was enough to convince Drew to switch their town-read of Sky into a scum-read. " and " I don't see how that argument is weighted enough against Skygazer to flip a read, I've been trying to understand it which is why I asked and asked and waited but got nothing satisfying. "

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm sorry for reading what you meant wrong, that caused me so much distress and I didn't know why the hell nobody was seeing how absolutely wacky that would be from you. I understand now, a little more than before at least

[JacksonVirgo]

My whole point was that the scum team losing a buddy so quickly isn't the worst thing in the world because lack of associatives.

This game is giving me brain rot

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: shadow tentative switch back while I think this over

[JacksonVirgo]

I should lay off the stuff lmao

[JacksonVirgo]

Why did nobody tell me earlier I was on the complete wrong path with that? I've said it multiple times

[JacksonVirgo]

Whatever

[JacksonVirgo]

Also bloop

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm sorry for reading what you meant wrong, that caused me so much distress and I didn't know why the hell nobody was seeing how absolutely wacky that would be from you. I understand now, a little more than before at least

My whole point was that the scum team losing a buddy so quickly isn't the worst thing in the world because lack of associatives.

This game is giving me brain rot

I hope you aren't regretting the kind words you gave me in your GTKAS lol

luv ya my man

-Asclepius

I would never regret those words, I will hold them until the day I die

[JacksonVirgo]

So I guess I was right with my weird thoughts surrounding the "only if they're wolf" line in that argument, that I felt didn't fit. Cuz it didn't fit, but only cuz I wasn't understanding the rest of it. So cursed

[JacksonVirgo]

You're probably Town and the logic I was clinging onto with that jacob interaction was accurate, my gut and my brain felt like it was strong reasoning. God I feel stupid

[JacksonVirgo]

Alright so what am I thinking now?

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm thinking the scum are in three pools
{ shadow, cakez } + { std, skygazer, black } + { lucca, jake, argo }

The first tier is the easiest to sort through considering one has a vig shot claimed. The second pool I town-read black so likely one in the two STD/Skygazer simply due to the wagon formations and I trust Black's reads and I have to be wrong somewhere. The third pool is going to be the toughest I have to sort and I'll probably throw my action in that pool for the odd chance that I'm not pinned, I might also holster but wifom babyyy. This pool is going to be pretty hard to sort, initially Jake seems to be the wolf in that pool due to the other two being stronger (grain of salt, my thoughts on Argo haven't settled completely given the new information) but I don't believe that so I'm a little stuck in that pool. I don't think two wolves are in the shadow/cakez, nor the second pool, nor the third. Hence why I have those three pools as what they are.

[JacksonVirgo]

I just feel

[JacksonVirgo]

I just feel like I'm in a rat maze with my own brain and I don't like it

[JacksonVirgo]

Excuse me?

I'm sorry if I'm wrong but I just don't think your unwaivering townread on me is real

It’s alright, I forgive

[JacksonVirgo]

Also it’s not unwavering I just townread you

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh I’ve doubted it

[JacksonVirgo]

I just don’t feel the need to constantly throw it out into the world, I townread you. I don’t agree with most of what you say, so that comes with some level of scrutiny. It’s not like my read on you is surface level and I’m just throwing you in a bucket

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh I’ve doubted it

Not openly. Why haven't you pointed out scummy posts or anything? You can't just say you've doubted it because I can't be sure you're not just lying to me. Those thoughts should have been in the thread if you are being open and honest and trying to solve the game

When I iso-dived you for instance I called out what I thought was scummy for instance because I was wanting to express those thoughts to Jake directly. I focus/tunnel mostly on my scum-reads, just what I do even though I don’t like it. If you want me to vocalise it more I can do that, I can explain my entire thought process after I finish work and go on my “date” in the morning. I might be bat shit tired and I don’t wanna do it but better than being mislimmed for a playstyle thing

[JacksonVirgo]

I don’t expect you to know how I play as town but you do have my town game wrong for the most part excluding games where I’m choosing to focus on different aspects which this game is not that. Though this is useless to say but just for post-game sake. Though I would try and pocket you cuz you’re scary lmfao

[JacksonVirgo]

I probably won’t be able to put a lot of effort here for 10-18 hours which is unfortunate but I’ll do what I can

[JacksonVirgo]

I just had to break up a fight between my mates, today is cursed as hell

[JacksonVirgo]

Care to elaborate on that vote too?

[JacksonVirgo]

Actually I don't care, I had enough for today

[JacksonVirgo]

Thanks man, I'm gonna take a nap or a deep sleep whichever takes me first

[JacksonVirgo]

Will get to what I said I was gonna do real soon

[JacksonVirgo]

Damnit Jackson, go to deep sleep already!

Lmao how long do you want me to even sleep for

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm genuinely super frustrated at the wagon on me, I don't think it's really all that fair at all. I don't understand why I'm not allowed to town-read somebody strongly without getting "oh ur just pocketing owo" thrown at my face all the time, oversimplifying my stance (on Black obviously) as unwavering town-reading for unsubstantiated reasoning when if people read what I've been saying about Black I feel that's ignoring my wall-case on Black that I discussed with Jake and just throwing my words into a bucket it doesn't belong in. I also don't understand why you think I would put my ass on the line just to throw Jacob out of the game and not just that but then continue to make myself look worse and worse by going with a 3-shot and just making myself look shitty over time rather than just claiming the 1-shot and leaving it at that. Getting voted because of how I think and play moreso than anything actually related to my alignment is just an awful feeling.

To elaborate further on both reasons to vote me, I think Argo's reasoning is just words to fill a feeling they had moreso than they genuinely believe that me claiming a red-check, when I got it, was scummy cuz that just sounds super silly. The seeing me as scummy for town-reading Black in an unwavering way is at least understandable. If you read this game you'll know that it's not uncommon for me to just throw someone into a top town-read bucket and focus elsewhere without verbally expanding too much on my doubts which I do get over time. I scum-read Elements at first, when I caught up I just saw them as town and didn't waver from that until elo where you have to throw away all assumptions and start from scratch, but even then I never saw myself voting them and I was right. It's not out of my scum range by any means but like you're seemingly on the line of thinking that this is just scummy when it's NAI and it's genuinely frustrating. I also HAVE BEEN explaining the doubts in my reads to some degree such as in the conversation I had with Jake so it's not like I've thrown you in a town bucket and never looked back even verbally I've said what I don't like about you.

I don't wanna be mad at a game so I'll be back soon

[JacksonVirgo]

Jackson, why do you think my reaction to your 'guilty' check was townie? You said it would be if Jacob flipped red, but he didn't, but you're still saying it.

I already explained why, pretty recently at that, the read would be stronger if he flipped red yeah but the feeling still remains

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm okay with being cringe

[JacksonVirgo]

Jackson, why do you think my reaction to your 'guilty' check was townie? You said it would be if Jacob flipped red, but he didn't, but you're still saying it.

I already explained why, pretty recently at that, the read would be stronger if he flipped red yeah but the feeling still remains

I don't understand how you can think Jacob's reactions to your guilty were bad, but me thinking they were fine (at least at first) is townie.

-Atalanta

I don't recall specifically saying Jacob's reactions to the guilty as bad but I'm sure I said it, the major part of my scum-read on him were from day 1 and then the guilty itself anything else was just supplementary if you will. Even so, you are comparing vastly different things here and expecting the logic to apply the same to both when it doesn't work like that. The assumptions I'm leaning into with this read are that you are not Jacob and since Jacob was guiltied, your slot would live beyond Jacob's in almost every world.

Given that assumption, I would feel it's incredibly weird for a supposed scum partner to push against and apply resistance against a true guilty result because assuming they go under (and was mafia) people would immediately see that connection and then focus on you. In most worlds, I see even mediocre-skilled wolves (which I believe you to exceed but that's beyond the point) commit to bussing their partner given a guilty from a townie player as I was considered townie by most people at this time. I was thinking Jacob was incredibly likely to flip red here, so my way of thinking was weighted towards that but given they flipped green I applied the same logic backwards. If a town guilties another Town, a scum would usually go with that because that could be an easy 2 for 1 lined up for the taking but you were almost the sole slot actively pushing against the guilty necessarily meaning something for the most part and given that you didn't leak any form of TMI that my eyes can see and it feels pure and that's why I town-read what you did

now

even though I said that logic for if they flipped red

before

[JacksonVirgo]

-_-

[JacksonVirgo]

Ain't no way that's a genuine response to that

[JacksonVirgo]

I think you're both trying to provoke something

[JacksonVirgo]

Shadow has only just came back into E-1 unless you mean this general positioning moreso than actually E-1

[JacksonVirgo]

Has Jake even asked what we think about shaddowez, or looked into what we've done or said with the slot earlier?

I don't recall anything like that, no

[JacksonVirgo]

Frankly I find Jake's shade here to be pretty bad. "Why won't you vote shaddowez omg guys, you're sus!" when shaddowez has been sitting on e-1 for quite a while is pretty lol. Has Jake even asked what we think about shaddowez, or looked into what we've done or said with the slot earlier? Guess not. I'd probably have been voting shaddowez too at some point today if not for the fact that he's been at e-1 when I've felt like moving my vote.

-Atalanta

If you looked at my recent posts and took away that I was complaining that Shadez has failed to die yet, you would have missed that I was implying that the scum were trying to find a resonant counter-wagon to their supposed scumbud Shadez.

To clarify like Drew hath clarified to Jackson:

I find it suspicious and scummy that there's way more movement on non-Shadez wagons than on Shadez, as it's generally a scum tactic to try and save their partners whenever possible.

Assuming shadow flips red, who would be his partner trying to find a counterwagon

[JacksonVirgo]

Scum will have an agenda they want to push and find it harder to move naturally.

For the most part I agree with you, but if wolves are trying to find a counterwagon to a mafia they would be more loose and it would be easier to move naturally.

[JacksonVirgo]

I am not become pagetop

[JacksonVirgo]

You pagetopped so incredibly hard my guy, also just realised our listed pronouns are reversed from each other

[JacksonVirgo]

Or I guess flipped is the word

[JacksonVirgo]

Crazy how Jake is wanting to push Black for being on shaddowez on D1, regardless of shaddowez's alignment, and now Jake wants to push Black for not being on shaddowez.

Jake just wants Black out, full stop

[JacksonVirgo]

I should be around around EoD

[JacksonVirgo]

on around*

[JacksonVirgo]

I exist, just woke up

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh wow, I see

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm a novice babysitter. N1 I couldn't do anything, N2 I chose Cakez.

Throwing ourselves into the ascetic like a dumbass gang, rise up!

[JacksonVirgo]

I can kill

WHOEVER I WANT

Maf doctor go brr

[JacksonVirgo]

4 - Serial Killer Simultaneous Doctor Rolecop Roleblocker
12 - Mafia Informed Roleblocker
15 - Mafia Combined Cop Roleblocker
27 - Mafia Jack-of-all-Trades (Rolestopper, Alien, Messenger)
28 - Town Combined Roleblocker Friendly Neighbor
49 - Werewolf Informed Three-shot Alien
57 -

Mafia Night 1,2,3 JOAT (Cop, Babysitter, Roleblocker, Rolestopper, Rolecop, Hider)

58 - Town Odd-Night Roleblocker
89 - Werewolf 1-Shot Bulletproof Simultaneous Alien Watcher
93 - Mafia Traitor Personal Rolestopper
96 - Serial Killer Jack-of-all-Trades (with Role Cop, Rolestopper, and Traffic Analyst shots)
126 - Even-Night Compulsive Babysitter Odd-Night Jailkeeper Serial Killer

All the roles that can interfere

The colored one is the only one I'd expect to not get used against Jackson again tonight, if he's on the level. So since Cakez can't be blocked I don't see much point in keeping Jackson around either.

So I'm fine with hitting anyone not named lucca or Black. (Obv not Cakez, don't think that even would work)

-Atalanta

You're not marking off the ones with only 1/2 roleblock abilities like the SK JOAT, or the other mafia JOAT but that's just semantics

[JacksonVirgo]

So fun, thanks for this game Alianna

[JacksonVirgo]

Mafia PT is hilarious

[JacksonVirgo]

Re: my loyal claim, it was heavily inspired by my town gambit cuz I realised it works really effectively. Won’t be able to repeat this, I burned that one lol but it was fun to try with the lower stakes (cuz was a traitor)

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m still shocked y’all didn’t shoot black after they stated the exact mafia solve, albeit u didn’t know about me but still

[JacksonVirgo]

Spoiler: implies a role/alignment

I wonder if Jake is pressing JV so hard because he thinks duplicate roles aren't possible.

I was actually a little suspicious of Jackson having a similar role to mine, but I was mostly all in on the "Jackson you sly fox, I'm gonna get your head!"

If u read my notes PT I was very close to actually claiming ur role but decided it’s better with this one

[JacksonVirgo]

It makes a lot of sense as to why you specifically pushed for my claim, also my reasoning for choosing who I chose was just me talking out my ass

[JacksonVirgo]

Unlike Jackson, I do not believe in investigating who you think is already guilty, instead I believe in clearing ambiguity. For this reason, I didn't want to investigate those three.

Bro, I was talking through my teeth to justify who I chose. I agree with you, you should supplement where you're the weakest and that's generally your null-tier

lol in our next game I'm gonna poke fun at you with this. "Yeah i hear you and you sound reasonable. but also you investigate guilty ppl."

Lmao laugh at this user, he checks his scumreads