Mini 932: Let's all be friends (Over)

[Sotty7]

Hi

[Sotty7]

Vote: Hoopla

[Sotty7]

Eh I don't like Riddick echoing hoopla and following Spy. Sure it's only page two but a little original thought would be nice.

Unvote, Vote: Riddick

[Sotty7]

How serious do you think he was with that post?

[Sotty7]

You know what you are right. I just noticed it more with you because you have more posts. CC could do with picking it up.

There is nothing wrong with following anyone but it is easier to fit in that way which is what scum want. You have posted more than the average player so far in the game and all your posts have been following of some kind. Something I note.

Is this how you normally play? Jump on the biggest wagon etc?

[Sotty7]

I'm actually liking Riddick more now after my poking.

You know what you are right. I just noticed it more with you because you have more posts. CC could do with picking it up.

Also does this mean you find him scummy or not? I can't really tell, I'd naturally be inclined to think he must scummier than average for repeating the same thing you voted me for, but there's no indication here that you think so. Could you clarify?

Yeah I find him scummy, I wasn't going to just move my vote after you pointed him out to me though. Your reaction to my pressure does feel pretty town however.

Riddick is town, at least in my early D1 reads.

SpyreX, what's your case on Budja? It's serious? Because it looked like an early D1 joke. Point on Sidekick is weak but at least a point. Point against Budja seems like joke made from far-fetched thoughts. Why do you think you should be voting him, instead Sidekick? Just because Sotty told you to?

This paragraph is really confusing. When did I ever vote Budja? Or more to the point, when did I ever say anyone should vote for him?

Unvote, Vote: CC

Sidekick, if you can't tell if bandwagoning is scummy or not at this point of the game why did you point it out in the manner you did?

[Sotty7]

Oh Christ... I mixed up Hoopla with you. I meant Hoopla's,

Ugh.... This is plausible but I still don't like it. I'm not sure how you could confuse Hoopla and myself.

As far as the current bandwagons,

I'm hardly convinced by the reasons, though players under pressure do provide info

, so I'll submit to SpyreX's bandwagon badgering...

Vote: Budja

@Budja: How intimidating is being the target of an early bandwagon?

Why would you say the bold if you wanted Budja to feel pressured and give up info? You basically told him you don't really like his wagon and if he waits long enough you'll find someone else to go after.

I agree with cruelty's post 83. sum = some, not scum.

Hoopla feels very much the Hooplatown I have experienced in the past so far, so I am liking that. Spy always tries too hard but he is

really

reaching with the sum/Scum.

[Sotty7]

Apparently everybody is off enjoying the weekend?

The two people I addressed in my last post haven't posted since. Clearly, they are scum who are trying to avoid my solid cases against them. I'd vote for one of them, except I'm also liking my icemanE vote, since we've seen a grand total of one post from him all game.

You think Hoopla and Fongold are clearly scum yet you keep your vote on a lurker? I see no cases in your last post at all.

[Sotty7]

I don't like Riddick's bandwagon vote on Budja - he tries to pull the whole wishy-washy thing where he's not really for the bandwagon, but he'll get on it anyways.

Thus:

unvote - vote: Riddick

What do you think about Riddick's posts after he joined the Budja wagon?

Unvote, Vote: icemanE

Bad vote combined with apparent backtracking is enough to get my vote.

[Sotty7]

WoW, who else has contradictory posts?

[Sotty7]

Hmm I missed what happened with Sean for some reason. Looks like he was pressured into the vote which could speak more to newness than anything. Ice was a little different in that to me, it looked like he had forgotten completely what he had said in his previous post before posting a total 180.

That's just my impression of the difference in the two looking back.

[Sotty7]

@iceman: have you played any other games under an alt or on another site?

What's the point of this question? Ice has been a member since 2008 so you can't be trying to suggest he is newb. What are your thoughts on his (limited) posting so far?

I second the Ice prod.

[Sotty7]

Ugh... Don't like that vote.

Cruelty what do you think about Sean? I did a quick look over your ISO and I don't see you mentioning him. Where is Ice on your suspect list?

Also:

It seems like DisgruntledSean is stretching to find reasons to find IcemanE scummy.

Very much this.

[Sotty7]

Because I am finding Ice scummy but obviously not sold on my read 100%

Combine that with Sean and his weak attempt to throw weak suspicion on Ice and I'm not sure what to do. Cruelty putting Ice at lynch-1 is something the game needs with 4 days till deadline, but doesn't mean I have to like it.

Also I don't like how Cruetly hasn't mentioned Sean.

[Sotty7]

Actually it's pretty clear what I should do.

Unvote, Vote: Sean

[Sotty7]

Also if Ice needs to be replaced can we get a deadline extension?

[Sotty7]

Mmmm this is beautiful.

I'd put HIGH odds on one of these two being scum from the way this is panning out.

Which two?

[Sotty7]

I am willing to switch back to Ice to prevent a no lynch but would prefer a lynch of Sean. I think Ice is going to get replaced and so we

should

get an extension. Still that doesn't excuse the lack of posting by others.

[Sotty7]

I agree Sean should claim.

I would join a cruelty wagon over a fongoid one. He has been strangely absent and I really didn't like the lack of interactions between him and Sean. It wasn't like Sean was off his radar, at the time of cruelty's vote on Ice, Sean was the other wagon taking off. He just completely ignores it and that just sends red flags up to me.

So yeah, I'm happy with my vote on Sean or cruelty at this point.

[Sotty7]

Basically to me, dj, you read like you've read through the game with a pre-meditated profile of me as scum, then shaped what you found to fit. I don't really think your suspicion is genuine at all. I suppose it's logical, trying to pull votes off your wagon would be desirable regardless of your alignment, but I don't really get the feeling that you're hugely pro-town at all.

Why would he target you in such a pre-meditated way? I might be able to buy this if you were one of the top wagons but you're not, so that makes zero sense to me.

Sean was the other wagon taking off. He just completely ignores it and that just sends red flags up to me.

Why? Is it genuinely inconceivable that I don't have a scumread on Sean? I don't understand why I have to discuss -everything- that happens, even when I don't find it particularly worrisome.

It was the way you half heartily voted Ice. You were voting because the deadline was coming up so that means you must have looked at the two top wagons and picked one. Yet you don't mention Sean at all, you just tact your vote onto Ice for no real reason. It's not that you have to discuss everything, it's that you went out of your way not to discuss Sean's wagon when his and Ice's were pretty connected with the deadline at that point.

Budja

, top scum reads and why please. ASAP

[Sotty7]

Unvote

Claim works for me. Spy is right, it doesn't sound like a newbie fake claim.

Why would he target you in such a pre-meditated way?

No idea. Possibly because I played a very passive game the last time I played with him.

So you think DJ saw you as a possible easy target and then stretched his case. Alright.. Can I see the game in question?

It's not that you have to discuss everything, it's that you went out of your way not to discuss Sean's wagon when his and Ice's were pretty connected with the deadline at that point.

I went out of my way to not do something? c'mon. I didn't like either wagon, so yeah of course I jumped on the once I disliked the least. And then I spoke about Sean the next post. Fact is, I didn't really want either of them lynched whilst Fongoid was still in the game.

Come on, lets not re-write history here, you only commented on Sean after I called you out. Although with Sean's claim, if true, my link between the two of you is weakened.

Budja is coasting pretty hard, I'm not liking that.
cruetly still feels off, but if Sean is to be believed then my case on him isn't as strong as I thought.
Will need to look back though the game again

[Sotty7]

Sean didn't vote himself I don't think. It was a broken quote.

[Sotty7]

I went out of my way to not do something? c'mon. I didn't like either wagon, so yeah of course I jumped on the once I disliked the least. And then I spoke about Sean the next post. Fact is, I didn't really want either of them lynched whilst Fongoid was still in the game.

Come on, lets not re-write history here, you only commented on Sean after I called you out. Although with Sean's claim, if true, my link between the two of you is weakened.

What I meant was, in -my- next post. It's not like I voted iceman, went off on a crazy tangent, pointedly ignoring sean for days and refusing to answer questions. My next post (admittedly a day later but throw me a bone here, I'm on the other side of the world to most of you) laid out what I thought about sean and why I preferred the iceman wagon. No avoidance of your question at all.

I guess I wasn't clear enough. Basically I mean I don't believe you would have commented on Sean if I hadn't had said something. (Thanks for the game link.)

^ I must say that while I disagree with cruelty, he does sound fairly sincere ATM.

Do you disagree with everything he posted? What exactly was sincere in that post and why?

I don't understand how claiming doc on day one helps anything protown wise. If your the doc you're fucked. For scum it is the perfect claim because you look to out a doc in the town if they have one.

I will look back at the sidekick stuff and see what I can see but I find myself agree with cruetly's post 325.

bbl with vote.

[Sotty7]

I'm having a hard time swallowing Snow White being drunk during every post and looking back fongoid's hop onto riddick was just plain awful. But she did claim doc and despite the obvious pitfalls we can always deal with her later if needs be. With that in mind.

Vote: Sidekick

Disliked the back handed attempted to discredit Sean post claim and looking though her ISO there is a big lack of actual scum hunting. So vote goes on her. I believe that is 6 and we need one more.

[Sotty7]

Are you talking about Sunday morning Snow white? My plan was to post in all my games but I had an emergency at home that took me out for the rest of the day. It wasn't until I got home again and could sit down that I realized the deadline would fall over the weekend. I only managed to get that one post out, it was a pain because I am in three other games.

SideKick, an ISO is reading that one players post in isolation. If you bother to read mine you see that I have been scum hunting. (Bujda, Sean, Cruetly) You on the other hand did little but ask questions about things that didn't even matter, like asking Spy about what ebb and flow meant. And asking questions of other players with no follow up. I also don't think you know what the definition of active lurking is, because I certainly don't qualify.

Between a claimed doc and Gunsmith I would much rather lynch you.

[Sotty7]

Hoopla is exactly right. Targets please.

[Sotty7]

But why did you claim macho doc? Don't you think it would have been better to just claim doc and leave the scum guessing as to the rest?

[Sotty7]

Okay I'm a little confused. I thought a macho doc couldn't protect the cop (hence my why did you full claim question) but that's macho cop right? Is a macho doc a doc who can't protect other docs?

[Sotty7]

I thought this is a mini normal game?

Anyway, I have been crazy busy lately so I haven't be able to put the effort needed into this game which is bad form for me. A massclaim sounds like a good idea what with some power roles out already. I am tempted to believe what people have claimed which makes me think the scum team must have some counter balances to it all.

Anyway, just tell me when I should claim. I am hoping to be able to put some real time into this game come tomorrow and over the weekend.

[Sotty7]

Townie too.

Hoopla! Enlighten us all please.

[Sotty7]

Okay, I agree mostly with Hoopla at this point. Her post 438 is pretty much why I believe Spy/Snow white. I was a little suspicious of Spy willing to believe Snow's claim like he did, but how events have played out have made me feel happy enough to label then both town for the time being.

The PR claim I think is most likely to be scum is bujda. Why did you look into TeWuicah last night bujda? I don't think you said.

I also agree that we should lynch among the pool of claimed VT.

WingsOWisdom
cruelty
Sotty - Not SK
don_johnson - Doesn't have a gun
Cuetlachtli - Performed no night action

From this list I think we should lynch one of WoW and cruelty simply because they haven't been cleared by anyone.

There is a chance that Hoop is lying and is actually the SK herself. With there now being two docs there is a chance that one of them blocked a scum kill and she had an interesting back and forth with Riddick during day one. I am not willing to rule this possibility out yet, but Hoopla has been feeling townie to me. I also think another night will help us figure just what we're up against.

I'm gonna,

Vote: cruelty

For the time being.

[Sotty7]

I'm not seeing an issue with those new night choices Hoopla. I'm fine with that plan. I'm not much of a setup breaker like this myself, but I don't see any flaws.

[Sotty7]

You're reaching Cuet. I have already aired my gut check of Hoop being a possible SK herself.

I have gone along with Hoop

and

Spy who seem to be doing the "lets break the game deal." I don't like this part of mafia really and I'm not too happy having it happen in what is supposed to be a normal game.

I also notice you don't have anything to say about the possible night choices Hoop laid out, so that means you are fine with them as well right?

If not speak up please.

[Sotty7]

With that said, I am actually feeling town for Cuet. His paranoia seems healthy enough even if his case on me and Hoop as scum BBF's is poor.

[Sotty7]

You're reaching Cuet. I have already aired my gut check of Hoop being a possible SK herself.

I have gone along with Hoop

and

Spy who seem to be doing the "lets break the game deal." I don't like this part of mafia really and I'm not too happy having it happen in what is supposed to be a normal game.

I also notice you don't have anything to say about the possible night choices Hoop laid out, so that means you are fine with them as well right?

If not speak up please.

Well of course you don't like this since I am voting you!

The night choices depend on what you flip. If you flip scum, then the PRs should obviously be on Hoopla. If you flip town, then we should follow Hoopla's plan to investigate Budja.

So you just want to lynch me to make yourself feel better about Hoop's plan? That hurts man.

I say it is weak because you haven't actually picked up any scummy things myself or Hoop have done. You have just said "I see some buddying between these two so they must be scum" The only legit point you have is when Hoop pushed my vote onto Sean with her questioning. She was right to, which is why I switched. If you can explain why a) that's scummy and b) why I would need coaching in that spot, I'm all ears.

I personally don't think there has been half as much buddying between myself and hoop than there has between Spy and Hoop. Why nothing about that?

You should also take into account that mafia is a team game, even when you are a VT half of the game is figuring out who can trust and who you can't. Right now I am happy with Hoop so I am willing to go along with her plan. Sure I might be wrong, but if I am right the scum are shitting bricks because townies are working together, which is not what they want.

[Sotty7]

This is all scum by association though. What individual scummy things have I done? Has Hoop done, has DJ done?

My memory tells me that DJ's slot wasn't run up to lynch-1, but I will have to look that up again to be sure. Why is calling someone town scummy?

And why are you ignoring Spy/Hoop?

[Sotty7]

I think calling someone town with very little evidence scummy.

And I find "investigating" someone you think is town very scummy!

The bold is actually a good point.

But

why

is calling someone town scummy?

[Sotty7]

I don't get it, I'm playing the part of brick shitting mafia? You confuse me Don.

I don't think calling out your gut reads on people is scummy. I do it all the time, so do a lot of players (I'm pretty sure i have seen you do it). Doesn't mean your reads are set in stone, doesn't mean they can't change. If anything it is to get people to react, scum don't like townies finding other townies and will try and discredit it.

Right now I just disagree with Cuet and want to correct his associative scum hunting. Scum buddy with town all the time, town buddy with scum, town with town, scum with scum. From the way he tells it he saw some buddying and then built a reaching case around it. Buddying could be a part of a case, but when it is the anchor you're looking for trouble.

[Sotty7]

Sorry for the lack of posts lately. I have some kind of issue with my stomach, blegh, so bare with me. I'm trying to be as active as possible.

= = = = =

cruelty my vote is on you over Wings because of your shady actions surrounding your vote on Ice while ignoring Sean (yes I still can't let that go.) Also your reaction to Don's pressure wasn't great, particularly the part where you tried to say Don targeted you in a pre-meditated way despite not being one of the lead wagons when he replaced in. It was like you were tying to discredit him any way you could. That's not a townie reaction.

You keep going on about WoW being absent, is that scummy? Do you want us to lynch a lurker? Do you think I should be the lynch? Why, why not? I get you think Hoop is scum, but you seem to be appealing to the hate of lurking as a way to save yourself. I'm not getting it.

I am willing to look at Hoop as a lynch come tomorrow, but right now I think we should stick to the pool of VT's and see what shakes out at night. I am not sold on Hoopla's claim but I do think Bujda's is scummier. Mainly because I don't see how finding out if a townie has a night action helps town. This role works a lot better as scum and if we are to believe the other power roles then a scum role cop isn't a stretch. Also Budja has been really on the outside of this game, barely committing on much of anything. I really like him as scum.

Scum hunting > PRs any day of the week.

But you have yet to show me why I am scummy outside of Hoopla. Feel free to do that (HINT: Saying it over over doesn't make it true. Give me a case)

Also that quote might have had more pull if you hadn't basically thrown out the Spy/Hoop budding because spy has

claimed a power role

I'm also pretty sad that you really think I still need coaching despite my join date. But I think that is just my small ego dying a little. Ha! Hoop covers this (<3) as you can tell I am reading as I type.

"Not Open to lynching" means "I think they are town."

Um no it doesn't. I don't want to lynch Hoop today but I don't think she is town.

And yeah, pretty much what Hoop said in the post above me. More budding for you Cue.

[Sotty7]

Cue, disagreeing with you is not the same as insulting you. Sorry if I gave you that impression, I'm not that kind of player. I might be a tad frustrated with your play but I don't get dirty in these games they are meant to be fun.

With that said, I still have yet to see an actual case from you regards to me. I have now asked you several times, so please. Case that doesn't just involve you pointing at Hoop and me and saying "lolscum"

Also in your little thing up there, I should be in the semi clear section no? Seeing as I am not the SK as per Hoops deal. You are also putting words in Hoop's mouth and have for some time now, it is getting beyond silly.

[Sotty7]

Cue what happens next when I flip town as far as your theory goes?

What are the pros and cons to no lynching today? I have thought about this a few times and the con is obviously lack of lynch information from the flip, but this game seems to be weighing heavily on night actions now so I'd thought I'd throw the idea out there and see what others thought.

[Sotty7]

WingsOWisdom, Cuetlachtli are the un-investigated, non-PR's. There is a possibility that DS was redirected so Sotty is less cleared than Don.

Why is there a possibility he was redirected? Why wouldn't he have been redirected on night one as well? He had claimed on day one don't forget. Do. Not. Like.

I'm not lynching Hoop or Snow white today. I think we should be lynching Budja. I could also be down for a no lynch.

[Sotty7]

I should say that WoW outside-chance-hoop-is-scum theory surrounding the attempted SK kill is a good one though. I will tip my hat to Hoop if that is actually what she pulled here. For now she is in my town category for part claim part actions in thread.

Snow is all but confirmed to me. Sean could be lying but I'm not feeling it.

I will have to re-read WoW and co to decide on them, but I feel Town Don in my gut if that helps. Probably doesn't.

[Sotty7]

Also, the Hoopla-Sotty love affair maintains the course it has been following since RVS.

What can I say.... I have been crushing on Hoop ever since she day vig'ed me on page two of another game. Well that and she claimed FBI agent and we lynched an SK makes me think that she was, oh I don't know, actually telling the truth.

The only 2 possibilities I can see a Hypo-Scum Hoopla figuring out that Cruelty is a SK are.... 

1. Hoopla is a mafia role cop and investigated Cruelty on N1 

2. Hoopla and the other scum dubiously opted to kill Cruelty instead of SW and a bullet hit Cruelty's vest. The Riddick kill and Cruelty's subsequent VT claim told veteran Hoopla that Cruelty was probably a SK and she exploited this situation accordingly. 

I think 1 is possible and 2 is idiotic. The is no logical reason why the scum would target Cruelty over a PR. 

You have a point about the PR thing, but does this mean you are finally dropping this theory? Because if anything Budja works better in question one than Hoop.

Don, what do you think about Budja?

[Sotty7]

I am about ready to vote Budja as well.

Don I get what you are saying about Hoop, but why do you assume the SK would be carrying a gun?

sk is most likely carrying a gun. otherwise flavor would indicate otherwise.

We don't know what kill went though on night one, this seems to suggest that you know more than you are letting on as far as who killed who.

[Sotty7]

Wow, that's a surprising result.

So, this means we have been playing in a 2:1:9 set-up all along. Really curious to learn Sean's results. I don't know why Wings was killed, when Snow was basically confirmed, what is the point in that? At this point, mafia must either have investigation immunity, or Sean must be scum. I'm quite sure it's the latter though, because a gunsmith in a 2:1:9 is starting to sound a little farfetched.

Once I saw Budja's flip I thought you were scum and the game would be over once the kill was in. But with six alive there can't be 3 scum. Still... I have suspicions around both you and Sean now, I think that one of you is scum. It's just a rumble in the pit of my stomach that I can't shake.

Snow is pretty much cleared. Bujda got no movement from Cue night one and me night two so I'm not really interested in Cue today either (combined results/actions). That leaves me with Don, Hoop and Sean. Out of those three I feel like I want to lynch Don after his quick hammer yesterday. If Don flips scum then Hoop is probably his partner with how suddenly Don was ready to lynch Hoop yesterday.

With all that said, I'm not ready to vote and could probably do with a re-read, but that's where I'm at.

[Sotty7]

Okay, okay. I just remembered in the shower that Sean got a "no gun" result on Don which kinda changes things a little. Thinking about it even more I'm finding it harder to believe that Sean is scum, unless he has an experienced partner who gave him a solid claim during pregame. This is a reach. Good this is confusing, but I am really starting to think it is Hoop + ???

Mod, can you tell us the flavor of the SK kills? Gun shot? Stabbing etc?

[Sotty7]

Okay, okay. I just remembered in the shower that Sean got a "no gun" result on Don which kinda changes things a little.

You were thinking about Sean in the shower?

Correction. I was thinking about Sean AND you while in the shower

Well if we no lynch, Snow is going to die and we're be the same place we were today. But yeah, I suppose you're right, even number of people means we no lynch. I'd like to see if the mod answers my question first though.

[Sotty7]

Prod Sean?

[Sotty7]

Right now I want the mod to answer my question.

That aside I want to lynch Hoop, if that isn't possible I would go with a no lynch.

[Sotty7]

Cue/Don/Sotty - what do you make of Sean suddenly claiming to have received no result after two nights in a row of investigations?

I won't say it isn't strange but it could be the result of any number of things. If we are in a 2:1:9 setup I'd have to believe the scum have some kind of power, maybe they have been using a roleblock on the docs.

[Sotty7]

Sorry I have been swamped these last few days. Tomorrow should be better and I can give this game a proper re-read.

[Sotty7]

Board slowness has hampered my re-read. I will try again tomorrow.

I actually hadn't noticed that the kills were just "so-and-so was killed" that is kinda strange with a confirmed SK in the game. I would have thought there would be distinguishing kills. Hoop why do you think scumSean would suddenly claim no result when he could claim a gun on someone for the near win?

I am happy to no lynch, but I still need to do some reading.

[Sotty7]

You make some good points.

Unless there is anything else to talk about I will hammer no lynch.

[Sotty7]

Vote: No lynch

[Sotty7]

Nice job Don and Cue. I didn't envy you at the end there.

Hoop, with all things considered I thought you played pretty damn well in this game. The claim was great and had me buying into you for awhile.

Go town!

[Sotty7]

Don't quit cruelty!

And yeah, this game was frustrating for me and I was just a townie.