Open 333 : Carbon-14 - Game ended

[saulres]

Confirming.

[saulres]

Oh cool. So a free false-lynch with no risk of mislynching? Sign me up!

Vote: Mist7676

(Boy I hope we can get him to L+3 before gamestart )

[saulres]

Oops. Sorry, Mist. Let me revise.

EBWOP

Oh cool. So a free false-lynch with no risk of mislynching? Sign me up!

Vote: Mist7676

(Boy I hope we can get

her

to L+3 before gamestart )

[saulres]

Vote: Whiskers

kondi's "Meh" makes me think he's town and doesn't want to play town. Whiskers voting for him is therefore by definition not pro-town.

[saulres]

I'll say at the end of RVS.

Hmph. And here I was trying to get us out of RVS quickly. :noseinair:

@Saulres: What is your experience with mafia? Have you played much off-site?

This is my fourth game. Two of the others are onsite and ongoing, one was offsite.

I'd like to have that question answered by everyone, actually, I like knowing the experience levels of the people I play with.

[saulres]

1. What is your timezone?

I'd prefer not to say for various non-game reasons. PM me after the game's over if you're really curious.

2. Why do you play mafia?

It's fun. I like trying to figure out what's going on and how to achieve my goals. Plus as someone else said (I'm too lazy right now to look for it) the social aspect.

3. What's your favorite role?

Haven't played enough to answer that, sorry.

4. When do you get to post?

A lot. I won't give specific times but you might see me post almost any ol' time.

Everyone that voted me in Pre-Game: Why?

I was trying to see if we could get someone to L+3, because that's never go to happen in a real game. Thought it would be funny.

Unvote.

Vote: Xalxe

For some strange reason this makes me feel like leaving my vote exactly where it is.

[saulres]

I was trying to see if we could get someone to L+3, because that's never go to happen in a real game. Thought it would be funny.

Not sure I buy that last bit. Anyway, yeah, the last game I replaced into, there was an L-1 wagon in RVS. So no, that would not never go to happen.

Pfaugh. I did that during a pre-game start after the mod said the votes didn't mean anything. That wasn't RVS. Once the game started I did no RVS.

And not a joke? Read it again. L

+

3, not L

-

3. As in "3 votes

past

the lynch", not "3 votes

until

the lynch."

No sense of humor, these Equestrians. At least the My Little Ponies could laugh.

[saulres]

I don't have issues with the vote changes; what I have issues with is not providing reasoning after I've asked like twice. When the vote moves, please to be providing explaination.

We are still in the Random Voting Stage, if I'm not mistaken

I surely hope you're mistaken.

[saulres]

How about we all agree to be out of RVS and do fresh unvotes or votes, so we know exactly where the line was drawn?

I was considering myself out of it with my first post-game-start post. I have grown to hate RVS with a passion and wanted to move us out as soon as possible.

I accept Whisker's argument that he thought we were still in RVS, so UNVOTE: Whiskers.

[saulres]

Your new play style is OMGUS?

Or was that a typo that prevents your unvote from being counted? Just curious.

[saulres]

Okay.

So Whisker's still playing like it's RVS.

Saulres is probtown.

Cobbler, what makes you say that?

I'll say at the end of RVS.

Cobblerfone's Post 60 seems to say that he thinks we're out of RVS.

I think we're out of RVS.

Whisker's trying to keep us in RVS. Only scum want to keep us in RVS.

Ergo, Whiskers is scum. Q.E.D.

Vote: Whiskers

[saulres]

Well yes. But I'm trying to get the game moving.

[saulres]

where in my posts do you think you see me trying to stay in RVS?

Here.

it wasn't THAT funny

To each his own. I liked it.

Bitching about RVS

I'll keep doing that too, I think. I hate it. But I've been reading about it here, and trying to follow what it says.

[saulres]

Cool.

UNVOTE: Whiskers lest a bandwagon suddenly form and run him over.

[saulres]

saulres, do you really have a townread from kondi's only three-word post?

Here he says "This slot sucked." and here he was revealed as vanilla townie.

I know it's not much to go on, but we have so very little to go on now, it's a start.

[saulres]

Scumzors

Mist7676
Whiskers

Why?

I mean, I'd like whys for all of your reads, but let's start with the scum to keep it simple.

[saulres]

I find it strange that you put the weaker, easy-to-get-a-lynch-on players in the scumlist.

Why do you call those players weaker than the rest of us?

[saulres]

His one post with content is productive?

I'm not seeing it. It's helpful, sure, but productive?

And it's more than Mist. So it's got that going for it. Although that's not really saying much. Mist, do you have any opinions at all on what anybody's said?

Someone give me someone to ISO looking for tells. Oh wait, too early for that. But know that I like doing that, so if you need someone to ISO, I'm your man!

[saulres]

So could you maybe answer your own questions? Particularly #4?

1. What is your timezone?
2. Why do you play mafia?
3. What's your favorite role?
4.

When do you get to post?

[saulres]

@Xalxe:

Was this:

Vote: Mist7676

Policy lynch go!

due to this?:

Hardly Ever.

If so, how did you know she hardly posts? If not, what was the policy?

[saulres]

Mist, post something with content.

And in some way,

any

way, pro-town.

Otherwise I'm voting for you as scum. Because you're doing nothing at all to help town win.

[saulres]

What about me? You missed me. I feel left out

[saulres]

Just for grins (and because nothing else is happening), I decided to ISO one of the more active players, Xalxe.

We need to scumhunt

Agreed. So why aren't you doing so? You have 24 posts, of which the following I consider scumhunting:

Maybe 63.

87 So close, but no arguments, just a list. I don't see how that helps.

94 Ah, there are the explanations. Not much substance, and even though you have me at the top of the list, you must think that means I'll let my guard down around you. Not so! In it, you say:

Whiskers - on the flipside, has taken the game seriously, but when you have, it has been scummyz.

But provide no examples. Please provide examples.

That's it, that's all I can find with significant content.

Oh, except for this bit:

Actually it was serious. To explain, "trying out a new style" can be an excuse to avoid comparisons to previous town-meta. It's not much, but it's early. With my townread posts I felt we were out of RVS but still in RQS, so... yeah.

Why are you trying to avoid comparisons to prior town meta?

He isn't, your conf-town read DonJosh is. I expect you to promptly ignore this bit now that you realize it's against him.

Oh, shit, really? Sorry for the misquote.

@DonJosh

: Why are you trying to avoid comparisons to prior town meta?

Whiskers, you're misdirecting here, which is scummy. Here's the actual sequence of quotes which led to the "avoid comparisons to previous town-meta" line which Cobberlfone, not DonJosh, introduced:

Actually, I'm going to put that in a different post, because it's got my suspicions up, and this one is about Xalxe.

[saulres]

The actual sequence of quotes which led to the "avoid comparisons to previous town-meta" line, and it's followup to date:

1

@DonJosh: I remember playing some marathon games with you, but I couldn't find any normal ones to research. How would you describe your play?

2

I'm pretty terrible at mafia in all honesty, but I'm trying out a new playstyle this game.

3

VOTE: DonJosh

For claiming he's trying out a new playstyle.

4

another round of RVS to occur-- case in point, Cobblerfone's "Donjosh says he's trying out a new playstyle, lynch him lol." I assume this is random-vote,

And then, the quote in question:
5

Actually it was serious. To explain, "trying out a new style"

can be an excuse to avoid comparisons to previous town-meta.

Note that was said by Cobblerfone as a possible explanation of DonJosh's motives. DonJosh has neither confirmed nor denied that explanation.

6

Why are you trying to avoid comparisons to prior town meta?

7

? I was talking about DonJosh.

8

Actually it was serious. To explain, "trying out a new style" can be an excuse to avoid comparisons to previous town-meta. It's not much, but it's early. With my townread posts I felt we were out of RVS but still in RQS, so... yeah.

Why are you trying to avoid comparisons to prior town meta?

He isn't, your conf-town read DonJosh is.

9

Oh, shit, really? Sorry for the misquote.

@DonJosh: Why are you trying to avoid comparisons to prior town meta?

And that's where we are now.

There are two things which stand out to me from this as possible scumtells:

1) In 5,

Cobblefone tries to get everyone to believe that DonJosh is trying out a new playstyle in order to not look town

. The only reason I can come up with for why he would do that, is that he was trying to get us to think that DonJosh is intentionally trying to look scummy. I would love a better reason.

2) In 6, Xalxe challenges Cobblefone as though Cobblefone is trying to cover himself. When Cobblefone, in 7, expresses confusion over being questioned, in 8,

Whiskers perpetuates the confusion

.

So now I'm looking at Cobblefone and Xalxe as the scummiest here based on actions (as compared to, say, Mist, who has complete inactions).

[saulres]

The confusion is that DonJosh never said he was trying to avoid comparisons to prior town meta. Cobblefone said that as an explanation for DonJosh's comment. DonJosh has said nothing about it. The fact that you then asked DonJosh told me you were confused (perpetually )

Also I have my ISO thoughts about you which I posted at the same time you posted your most recent long post, and I'm not sure if you saw it or not.

[saulres]

I'd ask you to come up with another explaination of why DonJosh would come and tell us (up-front!) that he's trying a new playstyle

Because he didn't like his last one? He wanted some variety? The way he's played in the past has gotten him incorrect pressure and he's trying to avoid that?

I don't get what my trying to explain that comment is going to accomplish though. It would be nice for him to explain. And since he is now 48 hours without posting here (although he's posted elsewhere), I feel comfortable asking

GM: Prod of DonJosh please?

The main reason I'm not scumhunting is that there's VERY little to go off of

I know, that's why I'm looking for things, and trying to get conversation going again.

I really don't like PBPAs and isos

To each his own.

Mist7676 should tell us why we shouldn't lynch her.

Sounds good to me!

@Mist:

Why shouldn't we lynch you?

[saulres]

I still could be an asset to the town in some odd way

Please demonstrate.

@Xalxe: Yep, I read it that way too.

[saulres]

No we should not claim today.

1) We have no protective PRs.
2) We only have one effective PR.

Given this, I really don't see claiming as a pro-town choice at the moment. If our effective PR claims, they'll be killed tonight before they can be of any use to us, period. If anyone else claims (and is believed), they'll narrow down the scum's choices.

[saulres]

And in the meantime, you're still not doing anything.

Please do something.

[saulres]

Before you claim, I'd like to have a little more time to analyze what I'm starting to think is our best choice: No Lynching for one or two days.

I don't have time now to figure out the details, but the thought of giving scum no more clues as to who's the one who can find them, while giving our single useful PR the chance to tell us what we're fighting and who at least one of them is, appeals to me. I want to run the numbers but just don't have time right now.

[saulres]

Oh, and before anyone hammers? I want to remind you that if we mislynch today, we're at MyLo tomorrow. This is what got me thinking that maybe we should treat today as a MyLo so that our effective PR has the best chances of being useful. Number-crunching coming when I have time to write it all out.

[saulres]

Okay, I had it backwards. But still.

Today: 7 players. 2 scum.

Mislynch today: Day 2, 5 players, 2 scum: No lynch or mislynch and lose. That's LyLo tomorrow. Our only useful PR would have had a 2 in 5 chance of getting a good result to share if they survive, a 1 in 7 chance of being the one mislynched, and a 1 in 4 chance of being NKed. And, only 1 chance to make a correct hit.

Don't lynch today: Day 2, 6 players, 2 scum: Mislynch and lose. Don't lynch and get another day. That's MyLo. Our only useful PR would have had a 2 in 6 chance of getting a good result to share if they survive, a 0 chance of being the one mislynched, and a 1 in 5 chance of being NKed. And, 2 potential chances to make a correct hit.

Option one gives the scum a better chance of removing the only real weapon we have and puts us in a "we better be right or lose" scenario.

Option two gives the scum a worse chance of removing the only real weapon we have, and another night to give that weapon a chance to be used successfully.

I'm really not seeing the downside to not lynching today.

[saulres]

I'm good with investigating Xalxe, Mist, or Kondi. Not necessarily in that order.

[saulres]

Actually, scratch that. Since a potential advantage is clearing someone, I want one of the more active players investigated.

And Whiskers going along with this plan, an enhancing it, makes me think he's town.

Let's investigate Xalxe.

[saulres]

Wait wait wait --

If we all agree on one player, then we've told the scum who to kill tonight. That wipes out any useful information we might have gained from our one useful PR.

I think we need to

not

specify who to look for, let them look, and let them look again tomorrow night, and do both reveals on Day 3.

[saulres]

So use the scum to do our mislynch. The thing is, that takes us back to only one useful result from the investigator. My whole thinking was to maximize what we can get, which is hopefully two.

I'll have to think about it some more, not much time to post today.

[saulres]

Curious what Xalxe thinks; he's been oddly quiet on this topic.

[saulres]

No need to wait for Cobbler.

I would actually prefer to wait for him, honestly. He may see a flaw in our strategy.

[saulres]

Think for a little bit about why I would want to wait for cobblerfone, and I think you'll come up with why I want to wait for him.

[saulres]

Prods of missing players will be issued upon request

@Mod

: Could you please prod Xalxe? I find myself agreeing with the argument to lynch him but would hate to mislynch due to him forgetting to subscribe/bookmark this game.

Done ~ Otolia

[saulres]

the No Lynch plan sounded way more solid, I liked the plan of agreeing upon who should be investigated until somebody brought up the idea of "well then scum kills them."

It's an interesting idea, but I don't think that would happen personally. I would try to hunt down a PR rather than kill off a confirmable/future confirmed townie

So what are you saying here? That you think we should go with the no lynch plan and not call who is investigated? That we should go with the no lynch plan and call who is investigated? Or that we shouldn't go with the no lynch plan?

[saulres]

I'm still having problems with doing the first set of reveals tomorrow. If we hit scum, that means we're sacrificing our effective PR in exchange for that scum, and not giving the PR a chance to find another one, ever.

But if we do go ahead with it, we have to be clear: Xalxe is the one to be investigated tonight? I don't remember seeing that specifically decided on yet; I thought Mist was also up for investigation.

[saulres]

PEDIT: I'm not trying to disarm the plan, I'm trying to get all the kinks worked out and make sure we go in with the best plan. Here's the math:

Today we have 7 players, 2 scum.

Investigate a scum. Tomorrow we have:
6 players, 2 scum.

Assuming the effective PR survives the night (this whole thing goes out the window if they kill a PR tonight and the other PR didn't find a scum):

Reveal:
We lynch the scum and lose all investigative chances. Day 3 we have:
4 players, 1 scum.

Don't Reveal and do it again:
Scum have a 1 in 4 chance of killing the effective PR. Day 3 we have:
5 players, 2 scum.

If the effective PR is still alive (75% chance), we have two reads. Worst case the PR clears one town (and themself) and identifies 1 townie, leaving two unknown. Best case -- we know

everything

. Either we have 3 confirmed townies, or 2 confirmed scum. Game over, town wins.

So the choice, as I see it, is this:
Reveal tomorrow and play the rest of the game 3 VT vs. 1 scum.
Don't reveal tomorrow and have a 75% chance of outright winning, and a 25% chance of playing endgame 2VT vs. 1 scum.

I'm up for the 75% chance.

PEDIT: Oh wait that doesn't work, because if we only have 1 PR at that time and they show all clear we know nothing at all. DAMMIT!

Okay, screw it, that lowers the chances too much I think. I'll have to do the math later (I can do it during the night) so I'm not going to hold us up once cobbler offers his input.

[saulres]

I already know who both PRs are.

Wait what?

Are you the GM playing under an alt?

In any case, I've reviewed the thread and it looks like it's unanimous (barring cobbler) on Xalxe being investigated tonight. Sorry for forgetting that.

Mist in 210
Whiskers in 216
me in 218
konid in 221
DonJosh in 222 and 223: Xalxe okay, would prefer Mist

[saulres]

Wait, why? That doesn't seem like a good idea. I see no benefit in him telling the scum who he's going to investigate, and I see much WIFOM if he does.

[saulres]

Or for them to kill Xalxe and say "Hey! The player Xalxe was going to investigate must be scum trying to avoid getting caught!"

Or, etc.

[saulres]

Which they may or may not do; it's been discussed above.

So you're good? And also with Xalxe as the one to be investigated?

[saulres]

Everyone's had their say. Let's get this show on the road.

Vote: No Lynch

[saulres]

EBWOP: Heh. That's what I get for reading this page upwards on first go. I though Xalxe's vote came before the vote count and we still needed one more.

[saulres]

And the guilty sure didn't like Whiskers' plan, eh?

Which I get a little credit for arguing for no lynch in the first place, :smug:

Anyway, we do need to follow through on the plan before lynching. Otherwise Xalxe could still be scum trying to force a vote through before the true investigator gets their say.

"I did not get a guilty read on Xalxe."

[saulres]

The first rule of post 296 is: We don't talk about post 296.

[saulres]

Somehow I was expecting that.

Before we get into it: What was he? Mafia or Werewolf?

[saulres]

/me glares at Xalxe.

When did we agree we should give the results today? Grr...

Anyway, since we're at MyLo, I'm working on a plan for a no lynch today. Give me time.

[saulres]

I'll say this now: If Mist is the seer, she should claim now.

[saulres]

There is! Unvote right now! Stop voting until Mist can talk!

If she claims seer, we have a lock!

Also the no lynch scenario is looking very bad for town. Give me time to show why.

[saulres]

Stop all this talking until we have all the info. There's no rush to get done with today in two hours!

[saulres]

Guys, stop it. You're blowing this.

Don't vote! Let Mist talk!

Possibility for you: kondi's the cop. In that case, we don't know who Xalxe's partner is. We need to hear from Mist. If she says she's not the seer, someone is lying.

[saulres]

Unvote! Right now!

If Xalxe is at L-2 and kondi and mist are scum, you've just handed them the game.

[saulres]

@MOD:

Crap, forgot red is mod color in this game.

Please don't modkill me

Could you change the color please?

Done. ~ Otolia

[saulres]

Yeah, I really should have listened to myself when I said I have too much work to do today to put thought into this game.

Okay. The seer wouldn't lie, and everyone else has claimed not seer, so Mist must be the seer. That clears her as town, and sets Xalxe as scum. It also clears kondi as the cop.

So who's Xalxe's scumbuddy? From where I sit it's either you or DonJosh, and from where the other one of you townies sit it's either me or the other one. I'd like to have kondi's input before he's NKed, and I'm sure the other townie between you would want that too. I see rushing to a vote as being scummy action at this point.

[saulres]

Could you provide your reasoning for your rankings? (Although I agree DonJosh looks scummier than Cobbler.) It would help us tomorrow assuming they're going to kill you tonight.

[saulres]

I want to hear from kondi why he has his rankings that way before he's killed.

Also yes I was very confused earlier. I'm trying to learn to be a less emotional player.

But calling me scum because I'm trying to extend the day? Rushing serves no purpose when we know who we're going to lynch and who the scum will kill, it just pushes us into a new day all too quickly, with one less confirmed townie's opinions to work with.

I'm going to be analyzing Cobbler and DonJosh's quick votes today very carefully when tomorrow comes.

[saulres]

Well that's not very useful, is it?

Cobbler, did you hear what you wanted to hear? Shall we lynch now?

[saulres]

...

That's it? That's all you've got? Don't post anything but try to move us into night with no commentary whatsoever.

I look forward to building the case against you to show why you and not Cobbler is the other scum.

Unless of course I find a more damning case against Cobbler. But really, that post to start day 2 is so scummy I can't even begin to guess why you'd post it.

[saulres]

Or, we could talk and make cases going into tonight so when we no lynch, we have more to go on tomorrow. Why are you in such a hurry to end the days?

[saulres]

Mist, are you saying that as a seer you investigated DonJosh and got a scum result? Meaning this game has one werewolf and one mafia instead of two of one?

That -- doesn't make sense.

[saulres]

Just did quick ISOs of DonJosh and Cobbler, looking for their reads on Mist and Xalxe. References to Mist are pretty identical, so that's clearly a take on her playstyle and not her scumminess (since we know she's town).

References to Xalxe are quite different. DonJosh tends to be more "Xalxe is town town town" while Cobbler's more "Xalxe is scum scum scummier". So we've either got DonJosh as scum trying to say his partner looks good, while townie Cobbler's reading him well, or we've got townie DonJosh reading him poorly and scum Cobbler distancing.

I suggest Mist read through their ISOs and do what I'm going to do next time I can go through them more carefully, which is look at their reads on Whiskers and kondi (and me, but Mist still needs to consider that I might be scum so she can't use me the same way I'm doing). If DonJosh is off most of the time then he's just bad at giving reads and it's not a tell, but if he's solid on almost everyone else and just weak on Xalxe, that's a sold scumtell in my book.

If Cobbler's reads are mostly very accurate, that's a problem, because scum know exactly what everyone is so it'd be a bunch of WIFOM. So I'm hoping to get something solid from analyzing DonJosh.

[saulres]

I'm going to think on this, because I don't want a mislynch today. We can nolynch and go through this whole exercise tomorrow, just one player down.

I do lean towards DonJosh being scum, as I've said before, but I want to feel more solid before voting, which I may still do today.

As to the numbers above, here are the accurate ones. "Guessing" refers to "consulting a random number generator with no regard for what was posted."

If we lynch today, we win or lose, period. The 2 non-Mist townies have a 50% chance of guessing right, Mist has a 33% chance.

If we don't lynch today, there are 2 possibilities.

1) Mist is NKed. That gives both townies a 50% chance of guessing right.
2) Someone other than Mist is NKed. That give Mist, and only Mist, a 50% chance of guessing right (because the other townie will know who the scum is, and the scum and the other townie will immediately vote for each other).
(There's actually a third option, no one is night killed and we repeat today, but then we're faced with the same situation as the current one until something changes.)

Those odds suggest we go for a no lynch to remove the 33% chance tomorrow, at the risk of potentially putting the entire game into Mist's hands, depending on who's NKed. So that's something else we need to decide on. I'd actually like to hear if Mist is willing to have the entire game put into her hands, because if she's not, we should just lynch today.

[saulres]

DonJosh, do you have a case against Cobbler?

And Cobbler,

Wait no, I think it was Mist.

What do you think was Mist? I don't follow.

[saulres]

Thought I might look through Xalxe's posts looking for clues as to who his partner is and came up with this doozy (bold mine):

Oh no, I've been caught. Whatever shall I do.

(Yes, scum)

Completely un-fucking-necessary and he's trying to hide away a minor scumslip (which I would have ignored, it's usually the mafia, in most games) by mocking us and making bad jokes.

He admitted to being scum earlier, when I voted him and didn't give a reason. Again, completely unnecessary, just trying to make me feel bad or something because I shouldn't vote him.

You keep pushing Mist. Mist hasn't been scummy, only inactive. DonJosh has been far worse. You have a town-read on him, which is fucking broken.

Explain it to me then. Show, don't just tell.

DonJosh is scum? PROVE IT. I have yet to see it. SHOW ME conclusive evidence and we'll talk.

But for now, I'm okay with where my vote is, thought if you want me to move it, I might consider it.

And yes, I AM trying to make you feel bad. You should be ashamed for attempting to kill a townie like me.

[saulres]

Thanks for that Mist.

So this is where we stand. We're going to lynch today so the scum can't put the whole game in Mist's hands. We have DonJosh at L-1 and me leaning towards thinking it's him.

I'm going to do more research because I still don't want to mislynch and lose, and I might be able to find something against Cobbler, or something to exonerate DonJosh. To that end, I'd still like to see if DonJosh can put together a case against Cobbler, or can provide a reasonable defense.

DonJosh? If you're town, now's the time to prove it!

[saulres]

Here's a good one too, convincing me more to vote for DonJosh over Cobblerfone, from a confirmed townie who's played an excellent game here.

Yeah. I'm not even fighting against your questions. My point here is that Xalxe or DonJosh are all cuddly together, saying that the other is so awesome, both reading Cobblerfone as Neutral/Null, for instance, when in fact Cobblerfone has been more useful to the town than either one of them.

I've done enough research on my own at this point that I'm willing to hammer DonJosh. However, in the interest of giving town the best possible chance, I want to see DonJosh's defense and his arguments, if any, why Cobbler's really the scum.

Gonna stop doing my own research at this point until I hear back from him.

[saulres]

How do you figure?

I understand why you think I'm confirmed town. But I missed where DonJosh was confirmed scum.

[saulres]

LOL.

Okay, now look at it from

my

POV, and from

Mist's

POV. What confirms you as town?

[saulres]

I didn't hammer you when I had the chance. If I'm the scum and you're town, that would mean I'm just drawing the game out sadistically, because doing so would have won the game for me.

[saulres]

Seriously? That's it?

No case? Just "I'm town so he must be scum"? No defense against the arguments thrown out against you?

[saulres]

Yeah, I'm trying to stop jumping to conclusions. I'm just impatient, and I need to learn to step away from the game when I have other things on my mind.

But I'm finding that I also tend to be much more conservative as the decision has a greater impact on the game. On Day 1, not so much. When it's down to "If I vote this way the game ends" then a lot more.

[saulres]

Xalxe was already conf-scum at this point

No he wasn't. Both he and Xalxe claimed cop, and we hadn't started the "who's the seer" talk yet.

[saulres]

Do you have any defense for the arguments made against you?

In 353, 359, 363, and 367?

[saulres]

Cobbler, I didn't think any of those were solid arguments. The two most damning posts DonJosh came up with against you were 106, where you said -- wait, no, I take that back. DonJosh's arguments against that were that Xalxe was your top scumpick but you voted Mist, but I don't see that in the post. I see you saying Mist is your top pick and while Xalxe was getting scummier, you didn't see them as a team.

So the only real case I see DonJosh bringing against you is 333. Why were you concerned that Xalxe would quickhammer? What were you worried would happen if he did?

PEDIT: Looks like you covered that one as well

Be back shortly, I think I'm ready to end the game.

[saulres]

Scum don't generally get all aggressive defedning their partners, now do they? They try to keep low about, to not cause a commotion.

WIFOM.

I was going to wait until you came back from dinner, but then you posted this...

Also, Cobbler has "countered" my ISO, but I'd like to see why

I

am scum. ISO me. I dare you.

I did that already.

So did Cobbler.

Plus Whiskers and kondi and mist -- everyone else has a bigger scumread on you, DonJosh.

I'm going to have to make a call at some point and I don't see my getting swayed seriously at this point. I'm ready to make my call, and be either the hero or the goat.

It's nice to be able to use AtE with no concern that I'll be called scum for them

Cobbler, if you're the scum, then good job. And I suggest DonJosh get a less aggressive avatar because there's an emotional part of me responding to his tone of voice and the spastic head.

Vote: DonJosh

[saulres]

My first completed / finished game on the site. Can't wait to see how it turns out!

[saulres]

As long as there are no hard feelings whatever way it turns out. Which I assume we can't say until the GM has their say, and I wouldn't want to anyway because that takes it away from him.

I did enjoy this game, and wonder if my No Lynch suggestion which Whiskers superbly expanded on serves to somewhat break this setup. Even though we still had decisions to make, it says this setup can be reliably duplicated by starting with two less players, only one scum, and no cop/seer.

[saulres]

Aw crap

[saulres]

I love how you didn't get it when I posted the thanks for your complement.

Hit submit and didn't bother to catch your ninja, was busy elsewhere

And thanks for the compliment, it's encouraging (since I lost my first two games ever, this one and the one on the other site I played).

I investigated Cobbler last night, so this day really looked saddening to me.

I really wondered what would have happened if you let Xalxe false-claim on D2, we lynched Mist, and then you did the double-reveal. You would have had a better shot of surviving. But I didn't want to suggest that during the game for obvious reasons.

PEDITS galore (Sure,

now

everyone posts all the time...)

there were so many ways it could go wrong (mostly if the investigated is a power role)

They wouldn't have been revealed, they'd just show as "yes scum" or "no scum".

I saw it!

Did you say so? I must've missed it This is why I wanted to make sure people had a chance to talk and delayed the Xalxe lynch.

the No-Lynch plan struck fear into my heart.

You covered it well.

[saulres]

Cobberfone wrote:
there were so many ways it could go wrong (mostly if the investigated is a power role)

They wouldn't have been revealed, they'd just show as "yes scum" or "no scum".

They would've been killed.

OIC.

[saulres]

What did you both see that I missed? The breadcrumb?

[saulres]

I investigated Cobbler last night

I'm curious as to why; if I had been as suspicious the game might have ended differently.

Oh hey and thank for running this, Otolia!

[saulres]

You're just saying that because I let you win.

I thought I played pretty aggressively, but there's room for more I know. The thing is I didn't have a conviction, which is why I kept wanting to delay things.

But as only my 2nd completed game ever, I did learn some things about how to play as VT which I hope I can bring into other games. Specific constructive criticism is certainly more than welcome.

[saulres]

I knew you couldn't catch Cobblerfone even though he scumclaimed foolishly.

Could you elaborate on how that's a scumclaim? For those of us who are new and just see it as though it could have gone either way (honest townie or bussing scum)?

[saulres]

Scum QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/9L6meutai8d

BWAH-HA-HA-HA!

[saulres]

So from a townie PoV you cannot say : " the cop can counterclaim " because at that point you don't know if the evil is mafia or not.

Argh! I noticed that right away but had assumed that Cobbler was just going along with Xalxe's cop claim, figuring the scum wouldn't claim an incorrect role. Damn.

You ran a fine game, Otolia. I didn't see any problems.

[saulres]

I suggest DonJosh get a less aggressive avatar because there's an emotional part of me responding to his tone of voice and the spastic head.