NY 159: RUST game over

[AngryPidgeon]

ap, just be quiet. we get it. you have different opinions from everyone else who is remotely conftown. feel free to gloat in the endgame if you turn out right. you're not convincing anyone.

I will. I will.

I cannot believe this lynch. The setup makes zero sense if one of the claimed PRs is lying.

And seriously look at PH's play and tell me he is doing something that isn't gliding off a nice warm current of towncred.

[Darthe]

vote: zabriel

i could go for zabriel, bloodcovenant or rob right now. zabriel best bet.

i could go for zabriel, bloodcovenant or rob right now. zabriel best bet.

well, tell me then. Why zabriel?

very well, but you should know its your fault that people won't get a chance to form their own opinions about this and will instead adopt my awesome opinion

Wow. Miller claim already. Seems legit. BC=Obvtown.

if zab had simply said "miller claim. bc=obvtown" i would have thought nothing of this post. but no, its "wow," its "already," and it "seems legit," which makes zab "seem way too excited" to either already know who he doesn't have to nightkill, or be pushing his buddies millerclaim through to the town list (still too early to tell which, but we will kill you before too long too and find out, don't worry)

I'm clearly looking at your reasoning in a different perspective. You're single minded, you thought of only one possibility with his post, i looked at it a different way. suddenly that makes me role fishing. No, it doesn't.

if you actually cared about understanding whether or not i was scum you would look at my reasoning from my perspective and wonder if that reasoning makes sense from town, not make up some new perspective to talk about that instead (and yes, to rolefish, because all your comment does is beg the question to zabriel "are you the cop")

you know what, i don't actually need to read what i missed to see whats happening here. zabriel wagon is stalled because scum don't want to bus yet. angrypidgeon should vote for him, that will bring us to critical mass and they'll have to start bussing. bloodcovenant is still the scum claiming miller. ckd needs to get his vote off of ap because you are both town and should also join the zabriel wagon.

and really, 17 pages in and there's five people not even voting? for shame.

i'll go ahead and prove you wrong when zab and bc both flip scum

well you are just outright wrong.

first of all, "scumslips" are not the only way scum is found. in fact i would say its rare that an outright "scumslip" occurs.

second, i've already established two primary reads that i believe strongly in. one of them is still the leading wagon. so why exactly do i need to do anything except try to convince more people to vote for him?

third, even in your narrow interpretation of my actions as "cannot contribute", being unable to contribute is not alignment indicative in any way, so your fos is bunk

you are being silly and stubborn

Tazaro's laconic replies are a bit abrasive, but I generally find that this is a town playstyle. Out of the whole Rob/Rofl thing, I do have bit of a stronger town read on Rob. I'm feeling kind of null-scum on Rofl.

^^^^^^scummmmmmmmmm

Fuck it, just started through your ISO and their is no point. I could quote shit and make you look scummy as hell this game but in doing so I would ignore a big part of how you have played. A few big scummy statements but if you're mafia you did damn better than the rest of your team and bussed the living shit out of them. I'm stuck with probable town here, though I dislike a few things you have said.

[AngryPidgeon]

Do PH next, do PH next!

[Darthe]

God damn it, I took out the quotes when I saw it was useless. Stupid text editor.

[roflcopter]

pidgeon, prohawk is like a distant, distant fourth for possible scum right now. why would he take his vote off demon core after the claim and go right back to zabriel?

[AngryPidgeon]

To divide the vote? I don't know. I don't actively think about gaining an advantage with my play when Im scum. I think about trying to look town. His interactions with the Dcore wagon make him look less all-knowing and therefore more town.

[DrippingGoofball]

Fuck it, just started through your ISO and their is no point. I could quote shit and make you look scummy as hell this game but in doing so I would ignore a big part of how you have played. A few big scummy statements but if you're mafia you did damn better than the rest of your team and bussed the living shit out of them. I'm stuck with probable town here, though I dislike a few things you have said.

K, this guy is town.

Which means the game is over, we lynched the right player.

[Rob14]

Lol, I love the intent to kill. And I suppose that DGB saying malp wasn't mafia was enough for all of you to tuck tail? Do me a favor, speed lynch me tomorrow and go full retard when you're left floundering almost at LyLo with no good choice.

you act like there aren't enough lynches left to take care of malp too, something i've mentioned numerous times and made a point of including yours and his names in the shortlist of people who will be dead before any lylo situation, wah wah wah

And here was the mafia reply.

What happened to "I shouldn't make it to LyLo because I made early-game mistakes that would make me a target"? This turnaround makes me more sure that you're scum.

[Rob14]

Then I read Darthe's wall on rofl and returned to not-so-sure.

Make a wall on PH, AP.

[DrippingGoofball]

I cannot believe this lynch. The setup makes zero sense if one of the claimed PRs is lying.

A one-shot gunsmith isn't a PR.

I don't know what it is.

A liability? He can get positive results on townies, and not on all scumbags.

And just one shot of it?

You call this a PR?

[AngryPidgeon]

DGB is letting me have it my way /burger king Tomorrow, so we will win when PH is lynched. Come. on. He is lurking and not in an even remotely town-motivated way.
P-edit: Ok But itll have to be next game day because Im at work. (lol)

P-p-edit: Well, yes. Its more powerful than a VT still. And the setup is not balanced (in my not that much experienced opinion) if everyone is telling the truth.

And look at PH's opinions on Cheery's claim not making sense because he would have to be a 2shot since there are 2 millers. DUH? The hell did that absurd opinion come from.

[Darthe]

Okay, I started to blow this off as AP being... Ap-ish but as you read more down perhaps you'll start to see it too. Commentary as well this time.

Rob, you have a few good points against BloodCovenant, except for one part. Wouldn't scum try to avoid each other more than make connections with each other? Do you really think that scum would make two connections back and forth to sacrifice the other scum-partner should one flip scum?

While this does not exonerate BC or Zabriel, I think it does make it not so fairly obvious as you say it is.

So this gets said. Mafia, according to post 1 from PH, don't try to connect to each other so this is going to make things more difficult.

I think I can see it now.

VOTE: zabriel

Wow. Miller claim already.

Seems legit. BC=Obvtown

.

I was mostly commenting on how he was claiming miller in first post, and that's like one of two schools of thought on how to play Miller. But it was so to the letter it was just kind of funny.

I also wasn't sure if it was a legit claim or not.

These two posts do not equate.

Early town cred of a sort.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Demon Core

Amusing.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: zabriel

No reason to call his bluff Day 1. Back to the other scum.

And then.

Completely agree, don't counterclaim until later in the game. That way in the off chance he is telling the truth about being cop, we don't mis-lynch him and scum would be forced to kill him.

Well this seems obvious doesn't it? (Should be noted that at the time I was somewhat drinking this coolaid as well).

zabriel - Mafia Doctor! - Anyone else as confused as I am about this? I mean, I knew zab was a bad guy, but killed during the night?

Holy shit Batman! (this forum doesn't seem to have a sarcasm font =/)
It should be noted that there were no posts between the two above.

Third party? Is zabriel DC's partner? We have a vig AND mafia kill was blocked/protected? We have to reach some agreement on how this NK happened so we can analyze Day 1.

P-Edit: If a vig shot Zab, then our doc/RB got it right on N1? Is any of these roles "claimable" right now?

No. Not Claimable.

VOTE: malpascp

Has now said mafia won't be working together or linking at all on thread but his votes... seem to generally indicate otherwise or he is an awesome scum hunter who is floundering in late game.

I see a Miller claims. Detestable. Never seen Miller claim turning out to actually be a Miller. See Spartacus Mafia and Disney Villains Mafia to see where I'm coming from.
If possible, I'd like to lynch both Millers. Believe it or not I saw a two men scumteam plotting to claim millers at the same time, get one lynched and have one live until the lylo in cruising time.

Do you suggest that we policy lynch the Miller claims without trying to see if they are scum or not? I don't really agree with the logic that we should lynch them because one scum-team plotted to both claim miller, especially when the team decided not to try it. As Rob put it, there are motivations for both scum and town to claim miller early on. There are other ways to catch scum without the cop.

Does not agree with lynching millers because they are millers. THIS IS VERY NOTABLE IMO. AP, why am I doing this case for you?

@ Rob13 - I am VT which also confirms CKD's claim of me not targeting anyone.

Here is his claim.

Silly attempt to get a DC that was going to inevitably be lynched to admit being scum in thread. If it had worked, he would be rolling in town cred. When Taz ruined it in subsequent posts, he gets really, really angry as indicated in ISO #39-#41 (look them up). Due to the crazy emotion and attempt to get town cred when DC was going to be lynched anyway, most likely, I consider this exchange a tad scummy.

^This convinced me.

Never understood why so many people discredited the claim so quickly without blinking.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CKD

I am so sad this thread moves so fast. So many one liners I wanted to reply to, but alas they are pages away and the joke is long gone.

And a CKD vote as well.

Oh, there's been a hammer. Well, that gives me a couple more days to catch up. Will post when day opens up.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Josh Lyman

Time to lynch the lurker.

Aside from that, rofl looks town to me. Still have more digging to do on Darthe.

Doesn't agree with lynching millers. Perfectly ok with lynching Lurkers.

@Rob - Your logic on Lyman scum is spot on so long as there are only 4 scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: malp

I also concur with your malp reasoning. I don't feel like Darthe is scum.

You're very agreeable aren't you? (Read the ISO, I am not quoting every damn time he is agreeable or submissive.. let's leave it at the fact that it is a lot)

Malp, You are a supposed miller, no way for us to tell what your real alignment is. I don't see anyone else more scummy around.

Rob has an outstanding track record of fishing out and lynching scum. Of course I am going to believe him when he says you are a good lynch.

You actually read Darthe's quotes?

So you don't think he is really a miller then?

2 Millers and 1

One-Shot

Gunsmith does not compute.

So with the setup we have to lynch one miller and gunsmith the other? Something smells fishy.

Today, we lynch Malp or Cheery.

Pretty much a turnaround here, I can see this building.

I think its malp, but Cheery gets second place.

I will compromise on malp

And there it is! Contrary to everything before you now want to lynch a miller, and have planted the suggestion that perhaps lynching a PR wouldn't be bad either, because of what they are.

I can do a wall if you want, but it won't be for a day or three. I have a midterm, quiz, and a shit ton of homework coming up this week that I need to get under control.

So yeah, will get wall on Darthe going as soon as I can.

If I am reading the deadline correctly, we have 2 Days, 13 hours to come up with a consensus. If you are really busy this week, you should consider lynching Cheery with us and we can go after Darthe tomorrow if it comes down to that.

But make sure you guys hammer quickly, let's not dally. This is some pretty inconsistent play, and worth a bit of a look.

[DrippingGoofball]

Darthe is town. Prohawk is town.

We lynched the right guy. What's so hard?

[AngryPidgeon]

inb4

[DrippingGoofball]

About PH: No way the last scum is going to pass on pushing miller lynches. That's what daytime is for! Why does he want to go after lurkers when he's lurking.

Game over.

[Cheery Dog]

Bad dgb, bad!

malp or ph tomorrow
followed by reverend the day after if you still haven't won.
And paid pyro at some stage a well I guess.

Also a minor possibility of angry being a sk that somehow knew I targeted him.

[ProHawk]

AP is just blinded by the meta-analysis that he never does, but by all means continue.

[AngryPidgeon]

Naw, Rev and PP are obvtown.

I would go PH, Malp, Darthe. In that order.

[Rob14]

Darthe, Malp in that order. We don't need a third because we will have won by then.

[Cheery Dog]

You wouldn't be getting my vote on darthe as it is, I still fail to find whatever is making him as obvscum as you say.
Although I did feel the same way about ckd, but I could see scum intent from his actions and when he still wanted to lynch ap after it was confirmed he had no him, he was an obvious choice.

[AngryPidgeon]

Rob, come on. I realize my Rofl read was bad. But stop ignoring PH. He has done nothing town this game.

He is tomorrow's lynch, ESPECIALLY if I die tonight. And ESPECIALLY if anyone brings up WIFOM related to me dying. But really its either me or you going tonight.

[Rob14]

Scum Zab does not surprise me at all. Scum Zab killed at night does. Next logical question is vig or SK? We could easily have an SK who wants to off the mafia to prevent themselves from being killed or a vig looking out for town.

Vote: Darthe

ISO #14: Pushing for a CC before a lynch of ObvScum-DC.

ISO #19: Does an about-face to bus DC.

ISO #20: LOL

P-edit: In response to AP,

#1: Darthe (obviously, I just voted for him - see above case)

#2: Malpa - very little to no content, trying to make weird claims about what one claimed miller's flip would mean about the other and ISO #14 strikes me as really bad because he pretty much comes right out and says he'll scumhunt when he damn well pleases and feels no pressure to contribute in the meantime. That's not pro-town.

#3: CKD - his end of Day 1 was good, but it could also be scum trying to get his partner to give up info in an attempt to look really, really townish. His early interactions with DC bother me quite a bit, especially now the DC is confirmed scum. I'll build a case on CKD in a future day. He is not the lynch for today unless he does something else.

Hello everyone, this seems to have been a good night. I am glad to have my suspicions of Zab confirmed and have to agree that an SK seems more likely than a Vig to me at this point. For now,

vote BC

in the interest of competing trains.

Here is why this is scummy:

First of all, Darthe is clearly new. And this post has 2 awesome scumtells in it that new players tend to commit.

1. Talking about how well the night went.
2. Assuming that Zabriel died to an SK and not vig. I mean come on you had Zabriel as a suspect and so did several people, so why is a vig unlikely??

Also, that Blood Covenent vote's justification is "competing trains". What. We are like a few hours into D2, why place such a forced vote.

For the record, Darthe, your psychology crap is an appeal to authority, and a bad one at that. A psychologist is not automatically better at the mechanics of the game (i.e. the vote) because the game was made by a set of different psychologists. That's like saying men are better at using electricity because a man discovered it.

Added note: The above was in reference to how Darthe started talking about how he was qualified in the game because he's a psychologist and the game was created by psychologists. It was total lol.

Here are some reasons from early days to be voting Darthe tomorrow. I'll do a more complete wall tomorrow if alive.

Also, pull up an ISO of both him and CKD and look at their combined ISO #17-19

Darthe comes in and votes CKD with weak reasoning (Reasoning that no one could build a wagon or real vote on, so no real danger to his potential scum partner here. Keep that in mind.) What I find interesting here is CKD's response. No vote? Darthe just made the most BS case on him of all time. He argued that CKD was using the power of the subconcious to convince us that Zab and BC are town. If I had Darthe argue something like that against me without refuting the validity of my main point when I posted "Zab-town" or "BC-town," my vote would be instantly on him. Why does CKD not go after him? Makes no sense...unless he doesn't want to draw attention to another scum when CKD, Zab, and DC were all under scrutiny already.

P-edit: I stand by my PH town read, and I will until you give me a good reason not to. As in wall. Also, I think DGB is also a possible target for scum if she's town. She came into this game strong and is clearly a strong town personality. She's also unlikely to have doc protection if any of our VTs are actually fake-claiming doctors (which isn't out of the question when considering balance).

[DrippingGoofball]

Cheery is still flipping scum.

Nowadays, players keep up the act until the bitter end.

[Cheery Dog]

I wasn't aware I was a death miller.
How did that get past the normality check?

[Rob14]

I wasn't aware I was a death miller.
How did that get past the normality check?

Reread DGB's post and apply common sense to figure out what he means. Thank you.

P.S. Think CKD.