Marketplace Mafia II - Game Over

[Mehdi2277]

Do you think chatting with a mason on reads helps them (or a hydra)? Same logic since strong town reads together is basically a set of masons working together.

PV I can't pm people. Nor can I chat with them when the first qt I tried to make was on the dead. What I said is all in this thread.

As for what I do with my money just trust me I'll be doing something useful.

I think it was obvious I wasn't planning to follow plan so again why not complain then. This argument is very circular right now.

[callforjudgement]

your saying if someone bid earlier than me on cop, that means im scum?

I'm saying that if there were multiple bids for cop that should have caused the current bid for cop to increase earlier than it actually did, then someone is lying.

@Mehdi: I personally think masons/neighbours are more useful for alignment confirmation/probing than for the conversation ability, but I said that already. Normally if I'm talking in a neighbourhood, it's to see if my neighbour has particular resistance to certain reads (you can potentially catch an entire scumteam that way), or something like that.

[greygnarl]

Oh my fucking Jesus, Peregrine is just shooting in the dark to try to deflect attention. He suddenly has a million things to say about the game when cfj questions his alignment? Yeah sure.He's coming up with a million scenarios that make little sense, he's attacking Voided saying that he should've claimed doc. He's attacking Mehdi because he transferred which is a bit weird. However, if Mehdi was scum why would he say that? To look like really dumb town?
VOTE: Peregrine

[Tazaro]

Tazaro explain how you win auction cop when neighborizer won.

The oracle predicted that one of the abilities that would be up for bidding was auction detective, which meant it was going to be up for bidding no matter what ability won in the advertisement dynamic.

UNVOTE

, I actually think my case relies to much on Phil scum.

VOTE: PeregrineV

This is not his:town metaz

[Tazaro]

silly colon (:), bran is not for kids

[Tazaro]

Ignore the quote that got into my post #1703 somehow<.<

[Seanald]

^ lol a much needed laugh while reading this game.

[Voidedmafia]

Why do you have $8?

Elmo's claim of having $50 left + Mod's wage/bonus granting of $100 - transfering of $142 = $8

Well that was just plain retarded of him.

Oh, another realization with the current strategy which is potentially really bad: scum will probably be locked down from winning any auctions for a few days, but any scum recipients can invest every night meanwhile, and that'll give the scum enough money to absolutely blow out an auction some time in the future if they want to. This is not necessarily a disaster, but at that point we'll have to defeat scum entirely with day play. If several voting-related roles end up in unknown hands, we should move to purely FoSes until we've decided on a lynch. (That's not necessary yet, though, and we shouldn't do it until we have to because it'll hurt efficiency.)

I think (well, I hope) that by that time we'd have a good pool of obvtown/conftown reads to transfer to that should be able to keep up with such absurd money amounts. I'm not certain, but I'd hope.

For anyone who was watching the bid amounts change realtime night 0: how early in the night was Cop bid on? I'm busy trying to work out the Seanald situation. Definitely, he's either scum, or scum are trying really hard to implicate him. Given the disjointed scumteam, possibly both!

IIRC it was bid on before the 1st update. Definitely before the 2nd.

P-edit: Cop had a bid of 1 I think for the first two parts of the night. It wasn't until near the end a second person even bidded (doc wasn't bid on at all until the end of the night). Only powers that were bid on early I think were neighborizer, II, and rb (maybe double voter and gov too).

No, I bid on Doc before the 2nd update. I did up my bid total before the final one, though.

VOTE: Phillammon

I felt like I waffled on my stance on he..

Now know BBmolla is the one who is shown as most early voting for Phillammon. Now want people to note if BBmolla had a compelling case?

Huh?

@Voidedmafia: Just noticed that you didn't actually explicitly claim to protect GB last night, just strongly implied it. Can you confirm that you protected GB last night?

Yes.

[Voidedmafia]

I think sean has become the lazy out and scum read for a lot of people when the original reasons I argued against and since then there hasn't been more there really (problem is his death clears two people if he gets two innocents which makes it a worthy death later but earlier on that wasn't true at all).

For me personally I just haven't been impressed by his play or posts, and I think that the only reason he's not up to be lynched is because of that cop shot. Regardless of my read of him or his ability as a player, I'd still want that shot to go off in case his actually is town and we can then get two conftowns (so long as they're not shot, either, anyways).

Or the fact I'm a neighborizer and had planned to target GB way before the plan originated and I already explained me giving money to him.

So you not only transferred all of your money to Gentleman, he was also your neighbor target? All your eggs in one basket seems counterintuitive, since if he was so townie he would be targeted for the NK, why not neighbor Slumber and transfer Genteleman, or vice versa?

Well, it should also be made aware that really the only reason this failed is a lack of communication between Slumber and me, so...

Actually, that would be Voided's claim. You arguing "he needs cash, he's broke" seems to be coming as if you think it is reality.

Well, I AM broke until we get our monies tonight. What's youre point.

If voided thought Matt was town, then why not say he's the doc?

If you read on, this is explained. (And no, i don't give a fuck that I'm post facto answering for Mehdi, you seriously could've read on a couple pages more to answer this.)

Oh my fucking Jesus, Peregrine is just shooting in the dark to try to deflect attention. He suddenly has a million things to say about the game when cfj questions his alignment? Yeah sure.He's coming up with a million scenarios that make little sense, he's attacking Voided saying that he should've claimed doc. He's attacking Mehdi because he transferred which is a bit weird. However, if Mehdi was scum why would he say that? To look like really dumb town?
VOTE: Peregrine

Interestingly enough, he's done this kind of stupid attack before (or something rather similar). Check Words With Scum, where he attacks me and calls me scum for my tracking of who has what tiles since D1 (we were both town there).

I agree that what he's doing is stupid, retarded, etc. but I wouldn't call it scummy yet.

[PeregrineV]

I agree that what he's doing is stupid, retarded, etc. but I wouldn't call it scummy yet.

So it's all "just bad luck" in your opinion?

What do you think the purpose of following the plan is?

What should be the consequences of not following the plan?

[Mehdi2277]

PV consequence like anything should be judged on what exactly was done.

I'm still curious why you didn't attack me more on this when I first revealed it (or when I hinted to doing something contrary day 1).

[Seanald]

Can't tell if peregrine is stiring shit up, or on to something actually good....

[SlumberPartyBois]

VOTE: PV

I like this wagon currently

[PeregrineV]

Oh my fucking Jesus, Peregrine is just shooting in the dark to try to deflect attention. He suddenly has a million things to say about the game when cfj questions his alignment? Yeah sure.He's coming up with a million scenarios that make little sense, he's attacking Voided saying that he should've claimed doc. He's attacking Mehdi because he transferred which is a bit weird. However, if Mehdi was scum why would he say that? To look like really dumb town?
VOTE: Peregrine

There is so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start. Let me know if you want to explain it to you.

In short:

TRANSFER FROM _____ TO ______:
Pitty to

Stephan

Seanald to

Gentlemen Bastard

Guille to

SlumberPartyBois

Philammon to

Salamence

Elmo to Tammy
Voided to Peregrine
GreyICE to greygnarl

PLAYERS NOT DOING ANY TRANSFERS:

Eidolin

BBmolla

Tazaro
Mehdi

The bolded are pretty strong town reads based on day1 play and what happened. Italics are professed non-Entrepreneurs. Based on Marketplace I- 2 scumteams of 2 + 1 3rd party in a 13 player game, Expecting 3-3-1 scum and 13 town this game isn't too farfetched. That means like 6 scum in here. Let's look at the non-bolded players.

Pitty- I think is scum.
Seanald-Got cop. 1 shot left. Probably going to be lynched to verify cop results. Scum knows this so most likely wouldn't buy cop. Plus MoI opening vote on him.
Guille- apparently cleared by Seanald using cop
Phil- kind of scummy, but mostly for early game posts
Callforjudge-I had Elmo as null, Callfor currently null leaning town for detailing funds.
Voided- Really uncertain, but let's say town for the sake of arguement because of doc crap.
Shamrock-nothing on him or GreyIce

So let's say Phil/Pitty are sum, that leaves 4 more.

Tammy- getting her town vibe early . I did state a need to re-read some of her meta, and I have yet to do it, but let's say null.
Greygarl-I thought was fairly town early game, but often find myself not thinking that, or in the minority on this read. Call it null for argument sake.
Tazaro-claimed Transferred to Medhi. Why would scum do that if they can stick to "I was supposed to keep it-look at the plan!"
Medhi-Didn't like some early posts, but others looked worse. Called MoI town even after scumslip, calls Pitty town after detailing her knowledge of the scum PM, changes the final plan so that Medhi_Tazaro transfer doesn't occur, neighbored the nightkill, transferred money to the nightkill, didn't follow the plan.

So, all 4 of these scum?
Probably not. That means other reads are off somewhere.

So, I start with the scummiest. Based on the above, who would that be?

[Voidedmafia]

So it's all "just bad luck" in your opinion?

What does "back luck" have to do with anything?

All I see is that you've grown a penchant for attacking people for stupid things, and/or doing said attacks long after they're actually viable.

[Mehdi2277]

I called pitty scum and argued that point originally until GB explained it. Read more again?

And anyways you're mainly going back to what I did with the plan. I've responded to that a ton.

[Mehdi2277]

In fact GB was the one who really explained pitty town first. Those that make him scum? Using that as a scum tell is idiotic especially when you can't remember how the convo went.

And yeah I was wrong on MoI. So? I can be wrong. After being wrong so badly on him in DD I naturally felt more trusting kind of to him.

[PeregrineV]

I called pitty scum and argued that point originally until GB explained it. Read more again?

And anyways you're mainly going back to what I did with the plan. I've responded to that a ton.

Let's look at that, shall we?

Just a heads up, the discussion and argument that Pitty 'Scumslipped' is pretty much nullified by the fact that her Post 261 shows that she understands where the QT suggestion part is in the role PM and thus likely received it.

@Gentelman & @ Patty-In order for me to accpet that version of the post,

I'll need some pretty specific clarification on this bolded section.

MoI was town (like he pretty much always is in my reads) until the whole QT thing came up. And yeah, I'll admit Mag wasn't very vocal about starting up a QT with us,

but it says very clearly in both the town and scum PM

that one may ask for a private QT with the mod, so that makes me think perhaps MoI is TP and his PM doesn't say anything of the sort? I can't imagine that being the case but...

And this does not clarify it for me:

I'm going to clarify this now before someone goes "OMG! Piggy knows what the scum PM says?! Obvscum right there!"
I mean that by the fact that it's in it's own separate space, not part of the rest of the role. Meaning it's not an alignment indicator, it's a PM indicator. If all the town got the same PM (except our miller vig...?), and assuming all the scum got the same PM, the only one that wouldn't get something that everyone else has is TP, and if all MoI happens to be referring to is the sample PM on the first page (and I suppose scum could potentially not have that bit at the bottom as well, but that's really really unlikely, since that would give town a huge advantage and cause this whole mishap), well that would easily cause this slip up.

Since it clearly WAS a role indicator.

This is where I ask about it.

You respond:

Kind of forgot that part. She was also the first to mention where the qt section was found in the pm which she wouldn't have known as scum at all so that drastically increases her chances of being town.

I strongly suspect that MoI knew by his last post he was screwed and ranted all over the scum QT at Magua, and scum had, at any and all points after post 231, an exact copy of the PM sent to town. So, it doesn't clear her at all for me.

But if you responded to 471, I missed it. Please link it for me and I'll shut up and read.

Then Gentelman also responds:

I'm going to clarify this now before someone goes "OMG! Piggy knows what the scum PM says?! Obvscum right there!" I mean that by the fact that it's in it's own separate space, not part of the rest of the role. Meaning it's not an alignment indicator, it's a PM indicator.

If all the town got the same PM (except our miller vig...?), and assuming all the scum got the same PM, the only one that wouldn't get something that everyone else has is TP, and if all MoI happens to be referring to is the sample PM on the first page (and I suppose scum could potentially not have that bit at the bottom as well, but that's really really unlikely, since that would give town a huge advantage and cause this whole mishap), well that would easily cause this slip up.

I think the bolded part explains her post fairly well.

See 471.

And I responded back with 472.

So in light of the above, if you want to explain Pitty even more go ahead.

[Mehdi2277]

How hard is it to just iso me around that time.

I think the scum slip applies to pitty more so then MoI although I'm currently leaning she actually inferred that instead of having it as scum knowledge.

I don't think any scum knew that town had a qt based on his reaction to it (which already said hurts Pitty some).

And then GB responded later to me arguing that with

Just a heads up, the discussion and argument that Pitty 'Scumslipped' is pretty much nullified by the fact that her Post 261 shows that she understands where the QT suggestion part is in the role PM and thus likely received it.

Fits my story perfectly. Your story is pretty imaginary.

[Mehdi2277]

This was the response given to 471.

Me? I've already commented on it. I understand your reasoning, but I still think mine is more likely.

I think me saying she's town for it is enough.

[Seanald]

town on town yo

[Mehdi2277]

Curious how PV is town? He's still not my biggest scum read and I currently would still love sham lynched. Two players worth of lurking kills a slot.

[Seanald]

Im not opposed to Sham lynch either.

I assume declan was overwhelmed with the game's speed which as scum your more likely to become afraid of posting anything and would be more likely to wait for an opportunity to post, problem is most of the time you have to make your own opportunities to post, so a scared scum player will end up not posting.

which keep in mind in the future when advocating more lurker kills analyze the other side of the coin. the fact that there is 69 pages within 2 game days, sometimes 10 pages within a single real life day thats a fuckin lot and can be very off putting. CFJ is a rare occurdence, ive never seen anyone do what hes doing replacing into a game.

[callforjudgement]

OK, so I want to study the PV and GreyICE/Shamrock wagons. When I replaced in, neither player had any votes on them.

Since then (looking only at vote changes involving PV/Shamrock; the Elmo/me wagon is also interesting but I'm a bit busy so I'll wait until later before looking at it): Mehdi CFJ->Shamrock 1597
Me: nobody->GreyIce 1613 (corrected to Shamrock in 1617)
Tammy: nobody->Shamrock (attempted in 1654, tags fixed in 1656)
Tazaro: nobody->Shamrock 1661
greygnarl: nobody->PeregrineV 1702
Tazaro: Shamrock->PeregrineV 1703
the bois: nobody->PeregrineV 1712

What's alarming me, really, is the speed at which the PV wagon has built up. When I replaced in, most people were voting for my slot; since then, people have been looking for other wagons, which is reasonable. The Shamrock wagon, I started it, and with my weak townread on Mehdi I'm pretty sure it's a town-driven wagon. That doesn't necessarily mean it's correct, of course; but it does mean that I'm pretty sure there isn't anything sinister going on with it. And it's been growing the sort of way that, in my experience, midgame wagons normally do; they grow slowly, as more people become convinced.

The PV wagon, on the other hand, confuses me. Three votes in the space of 11 posts, two of those consecutive. And the reasoning? greygnarl thinks he's trying to deflect attention, Tazaro claims meta on him, SPB likes the wagon. That's not a midgame wagon, that's the kind of stuff you get in RVS.

Mathematically it's unlikely that all three of those votes are scum, but I wouldn't be surprised if two were. Regardless of PV's alignment, someone's contriving the wagon to happen IMO, whether that's trying to distract from the Shamrock wagon, trying to push a mislynch, or trying to get in early on a bus. (Bussing seems a bit unlikely to me, btw, not based on the content of the votes but purely based on the timing, so my read on PV is somewhat shaky at the moment.)

Oh, also, if Peregrine

is

town, Shamrock is probably scum, or there'd be no need to derail that wagon.

[callforjudgement]

the bois: current read on Seanald? current read on Shamrock? Also 205 what happened to your townread on Tammy? If you have a disagreement between heads on reads on those players, let me know about that too (hydras can be hard to scumhunt because of hydra dissonance).