Open 463: Black Flag Nightless (Game Over)

[callforjudgement]

Vote Count

• JesseSheffield (2)
  : N Thor665
  
• Thor665 (2)
  : Soul2277 JesseSheffield
  
• N (1)
  : Deadpool
  
• Not voting:
  Justin Timberlake Cerulean

Deadline: Mon 3 Dec, 10:37 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2012-12-03 10:37:00)

)

With 7 alive it is 4 to lynch.

[Deadpool]

(Arthur) Going to be semi-V/LA till Sunday night. Stuffing my face with turkey and all that good stuff.

[Justin Timberlake]

Have a headache tonight and won't be around tomorrow or maybe the next day so v/la too.

[callforjudgement]

V/LAs noted. There's enough time before deadline that they shouldn't disrupt the game.

[Justin Timberlake]

Deadpool; Re: Post 1094 about the only line in Oversouls Post 455 I felt was really really genuine in that post was the "Do you want me to show you our hydra logs because I will do if it will stop you from acting all high and mighty like this", I felt a lot of the other stuff was very over-the-top and him directing aggression and frustration with me is something I still cannot fathom given that I hadn't spoken to him. I don't see how Post 750 is a town-tell at all, asking 'Am I scum for X" is relatively null. I also don't understand what I'm missing that you and apparently Thor are seeing with the logic for your town-read on Post 902, if they still thought Piggy was scum there'd be no need to question Thor or suspect Thor there at all because the game would be over. There was no real sense of eagerness to find out if it was over that there was from a lot of other people, specifically Tammy and you guys. When someone is lynched with one-lynch-ends-game for scum losing town are always very much praying that it is over whereas scum can't fake that well and instead pre-plan the next days lynch and Souls comment to Thor there reads as that.

A. Buddying in reference to the votes being next to each other.
B. I've made my suspicions pretty clear. I could ask OS to write a wall case but honestly I just don't want to.

I still don't understand A) I don't know if it's because I'm still somewhat asleep but what does buddying have to do with anything they've done or their votes being next to each other? Explain it clearly for me please. I rather you do B) if they're the only pair you think are possible you would have confidence, confidence means you would know there's a lot of posts and linkages that would create a strong case, show me them yourself if you don't want Oversoul to do it. I have no issue with what C) was anymore since done the reading into that pair and don't think it's plausible either.

Although curious on what are all the results of the meta searches? That and I'm still waiting to hear reg's reply on the rest of my meta since I don't remember it).

I've got the afternoon and night fully unbooked tonight so I'll be finishing up all of the meta and PoE reading then.

[Cerulean]

Going to be going over some of the meta again tonight. Will post my impressions at some point.

~Empire.

[Justin Timberlake]

I'd rather you take a deep look at my Deadpool-Town case and PoE partnerships before you spend time focusing on meta.

[Cerulean]

Sure. My only reservation with absta's play at this point is how he goes from this to this. This shift in confidence in his Voided scumread is a little jarring. As far as Arthur's posts go, I talked with Tammy briefly about them and she says that he's playing more like his town self now with the recent spam posting in his ISO. I especially like his reasoning re: his Soul townread - I don't necessarily agree with it but I think there's a very traceable/identifiable thought process there.

As far as the PoE stuff is concerned, aside from some silly minor paranoia about scum gambitting or some shit, it's fine. I do want to hear what you think about C) Jesse + Soul, though. I haven't gone back and reread them yet but I remember Jesse getting furious with Soul over interrupting his ability to interact with the other players which would be a weird interaction if they were partners. However, from what I recall of Jesse's scum game, I seem to remember him getting somewhat mad at his partners for "being useless" and while not directly analogous here, it's possible he might attempt some sort of similar distancing.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Oh, another thing, I remember bringing the "This is also a nicer way of saying "we were trying to misslynch absta" line up with Tammy and we both agreed that it made him less likely to be Sixty's partner for the same reason you mentioned. Also, I think you made a mistake with one of your links in #1072 since the #993 link doesn't lead anywhere relevant. I liked Arthur's "if someone is trolling and prolonging this it's not cool" too.

~Empire.

[Justin Timberlake]

Sure. My only reservation with absta's play at this point is how he goes from this to this. This shift in confidence in his Voided scumread is a little jarring.

I think it's just the case of his initial comment being based of what he remembered of Voideds play and the second one being based on him actually going through Voideds ISO. Think that change of opinion with more information added (ISO comments that people often forget) is actually a very natural change.

The broken link that was 993 was meant to say Post 903. But yeah, seems like you guys are roughly on the same page as me at the moment.

[Cerulean]

Oh yeah, that image post made me laugh really hard.

One more thing I want to talk about re: PoE but I want to hold off on it for a bit while I talk to Tammy about it.

You said earlier that C) Jesse + Soul seemed like it could go both ways. What are some of the things that make you think it's possible they're partners?

~Empire.

[Soul2277]

I still don't understand A) I don't know if it's because I'm still somewhat asleep but what does buddying have to do with anything they've done or their votes being next to each other? Explain it clearly for me please. I rather you do B) if they're the only pair you think are possible you would have confidence, confidence means you would know there's a lot of posts and linkages that would create a strong case, show me them yourself if you don't want Oversoul to do it. I have no issue with what C) was anymore since done the reading into that pair and don't think it's plausible either.

A. Define buddying. Mine is when two people just obviously connect with each other in thread in a nice/helpful way. The votes being next together is buddying.

B. Sure, OS can write one later.

Jt/emp pretty sure both of you by now have read parts of my meta especially when I know jt has commented on parts of it. So you could say connections right now then add the rest when you finish reading vs explaining my meta to me just when you finish reading.

~Mehdi

[Justin Timberlake]

Jesses frustration towards Soul for 'making him out reads/thoughts before he got his information' in Post 167 reads as very genuine and points against them being partners and his 'you forced me to out something that wasn't even related to you' in Post 173 also comes across as genuine and points away from them being scum together. Their discussion about Jesses read on Sixty in Post 208 and Post 210 is another thing that points against them being partners. Jesse says 'Their rage seems fake' in Post 519 and vote on Soul in Post 639 but moved to vote Thor not long after. His recent reads post though in Post 1038 where he says that if Soul/Deadpool/Cerulean are scum then they're going to win means he now apparently has a strong town read on Soul and the change from scum-read on him towards strong-town read on him has no backing whatsoever. It's as if he forgot that he was bussing and then turned around town-reading them so he has an excuse not to have to push them. Soul on the other hand have a had a town read on Jesse for most of the game and his comment in Post 870 of "does Jesse work with anyone other than Piggy as that's how it sounds" comes across as inside information. That being now that we've gone through Jesse and everyone and he actually only works with them as scum I can understand how they reached this conclusion but I don't think they'd have done the reading into it to rule out all other partnerships with him at that point as town, reads as pre-planning reasoning not to have to vote him later down the line. So yeah, I'm really undecided on whether they work or not so want your guys opinions on this massively. Faraday barely helped with his, fking troll don't even know why I hydra with him.

What all the partnership-work has shown me though is that Thor is a massively suboptimal lynch today - only person he works with as scum is N meaning voting N is more likely to hit scum than voting Thor plus the fact that I'm still finding his play to be fairly townish and I remember Faraday agreeing with me on him about that last night when we spoke. It also means that Jesse is likely a suboptimal lynch as he doesn't work with Thor or N and can really only work with Soul if he works with anyone so odds are I think my vote is going to be on one of Soul or N today. Want to look into Jesses games properly though and see how he interacts with partners in detail and then want to touch on Ns town meta to see how close this is and lastly finish up metaing Soul. Then probably need to do one last re-read through them. And wow, I just realized I have hours worth of work to do. Will probably do a massive chunk of the reading tonight and finish it up tomorrow.

[Justin Timberlake]

A. Define buddying. Mine is when two people just obviously connect with each other in thread in a nice/helpful way. The votes being next together is buddying.

What the fuck? Buddying is when someone attempts to suck up towards someone else to gain favour with them. "Votes being next together" means voting each other? That's not 'next-together' at all. And I don't think Thor and Jesse have interacted in a 'nice and helpful' way at all.

[Soul2277]

You realize even back then n and jesse had argued a lot. And thor had back then already pushed on jesse quite a bit. And then everyone else looked pretty town then. Saying I can't rule out combinations then when the reasoning to rule them out now is identical to before (well n and jesse not being a team being even more obvious now then before) is just dumb.

P-edit: How you want to call it doesn't really matter. To me referencing the votes being the same and close to each other was an act of buddying. And I believe I meant n/thor not thor/jesse (the original question was show thor/n working as a scum team).

~Mehdi

[Justin Timberlake]

Okay, so if you realized that Jesse and Thor didn't work back as a pairing and thus realized that Jesse has to be town to you because of no partner interaction that work as scum then why didn't you mention as much in your Post 947 where you ruled out Jesse + N and used that as your reasoning for voting Thor?

And now I'm confused as fuck, I continue to not understand what the fuck you're talking about re; buddying and votes being close to each other. HOW does votes being the same and close together be an act of buddying and if you're saying that X voted Thor so Jesse wanted to buddy X so he voted Thor too then how would that even work as anything. I really really cannot understand a word you're saying about this whole thing. Slow it down and link me to post numbers. Who are you saying buddied who in what vote and what scum motivation was there attached with it.

[Soul2277]

Clarifying a vote.

1006: First paragraph of mine refers to last two lines in the quote of you.

~Mehdi

[N]

Ns town read on Thor for 'voting him' is extremely odd, not something I'd ever consider a town-tell especially since it's based of just two games - did just go hunting for them to see if Thor was actually town in both games and he was - it's Reserve Rudex and Political Corruption if anyone's interested.

Now that we're both dead in it, I can point out that he thought I was scummy in Newbie 1288 too. So there was actually a little bit more to my read than two games we'd been in together.

Actually, that game has not completely ended. (another damn loss for me...)

And if we're talking about possible pairings, have a look at Jesse and Deadpool/absta. Jesse spent a lot of time early in the game soft-defending Absta, until Absta came in and said "Wtf is your problem? Stop defaming me." Even after that, the only thing Jesse actually addressed Absta with was a generic "Can you explain a lot more in depth your reads?"
After Deadpool replaced in, Jesse has only addressed him is in general futile chatter. First thing Deadpool says about Jesse is "Jesse reads as somewhat scum." and makes a small case against him, before suddenly (with no mentions of him in between) "Jesse reads genuine :/" and telling him "I already said you read town" and then that last bit of chain-sawing on me and Thor (I hope I'm using the right buzzword here).
I know Sixty listed them both in the never lynch list, but thinking about Sixty's play, I think she'd either list both of their buddies, or neither.

[Justin Timberlake]

Soul, so I take it you mean by 'buddying' that you mean Thor and N were voting Jesse together then? If so then that's not 'buddying as the scum motivation behind 'buddying' is to make the person buddied less likely want to lynch the buddier. Here's the proper definition if you're interested.

N, if you want to try and change my mind and suggest a pairing that involves Deadpool you're going to have to convince me what is wrong in Post 1072.

[Justin Timberlake]

What I've got from Jesses scum meta so far: In Open 256 his only mention of his partner were to list them as a FoS but never went into them or voted them, they were always the 'lesser scum read'. In Open 252 he states a scum-read on CES his partner saying that his play is antitown but refrains from voting due to not being confident enough, busses Furcolow last second when he has to and never really goes back to CES. So think his meta is scum-reading his partners but having it weak enough that he never has to actually follow through with having them lynched. Also shows he's willing to hammer and buss partners when they're dead meat so his vote on N this game rather than Sixty is a point towards him being town. I couldn't find scum qts in either game though, seems they weren't posted.

But yeah, growing more and more convinced that the play today is either Soul or N.

[Justin Timberlake]

I think I'm going to take a break for the night. Finished most of the reading off, just N and Souls meta to finish.

[Justin Timberlake]

Thor, I want to know who you think fits as Jesses partner. And please don't give me a "Only want to find one mafia" response.

[Faraday]

A. Define buddying. Mine is when two people just obviously connect with each other in thread in a nice/helpful way. The votes being next together is buddying.

And you think this is scummy? (Or makes them more likely scum together why?)

[Justin Timberlake]

A. Define buddying. Mine is when two people just obviously connect with each other in thread in a nice/helpful way. The votes being next together is buddying.

And you think this is scummy? (Or makes them more likely scum together why?)


BAMF

[Justin Timberlake]

Sig should be showing now. Yay!