Mini 1401 - Game over!

[Slandaar]

VOTE: Absta

Quite like the kthx wagon but Absta didn't vote me; it feels wrong.

[Slandaar]

What other reason could there be?

[Slandaar]

Hey did you vote him because of X?
Yeah
Cool!

What is the point of the question if I have a ready made answer courtesy of you?

[Slandaar]

So you're saying I should just have asked you to explain your vote without supplying a potential answer myself? Maybe.

However, it would be pretty bold and pointless for you to just go ahead and answer 'yeah' if it isn't actually true that absta101 have some sort of history, since this is something that other players can potentially check for themselves. So it's not like I was throwing you a meaty bone there.

More a general statement of the way it is worded is bad (hence the X)

Your point is legit but its still unneeded and really only benefits the person questioned.

How is this relevant? The question reads badly ie forced.

@slandaar: so you like my wagon without saying why you like and/or agree with it and then you fluff your post with giving us some history we neither care about or want to hear about and furthermore try and push us back into rvs. Is there a reason that although you "like the kthx wagon" you chose not to vote on it? Scumtell alert...

Sin: I voted non random nananananananana
Fitz: OK I will play ball; what was the reason?
kthx: GOOD QUESTION FITZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

I don't remember any history lessons in this game, I expected Absta to vote me but he didn't, I find that less than town; he did not do what I expected town him to do, could I be wrong? yes, but weighing up the arguments I liked an Absta vote better.

@Slandaar

- Who have you played with before in this game?

About half the game, how is this relevant to anything?

[Slandaar]

VOTE: Conman

Yeah.

[Slandaar]

Vote: Slandar

His voting pattern is suspicious an he seems to be one of the scum.

What troubles you about his voting pattern?

Well kthxbye you seem rather quick to try and take votes of yourself and try to blame other people but I guess I haven't been reading much because I have been at a lacrosse tournament and am really just spamming but you do seem to have a past history with this forum and with the points mentioned above...

UNVOTE

VOTE: kthxbye

Lets all guess why he didn't answer NS.

also;

What voting pattern? His only vote (until just recently) was for absta101. That's not a pattern, that's a single vote.

Amazing.

Why isn't any of this inventing arguments scummy again meph? do tell.

[Slandaar]

Screw you guys I'm going home!

lol

Huntress is probably scum.

[Slandaar]

I am lost right now

Too many ridiculous things being said

Need to think.

[Slandaar]

He said it about Gorgon but it's personality based rather than alignment based.

There is no town or scum are more likely to read rules.

[Slandaar]

@Absta: I will answer when [ongoing] ends.

OK Huntress...

Being a bad towny is just as bad as being a bad scum since if you're town, nobody in their right mind would ignore your scumminess.

This gives me a bad vibe. It's as if he knows he's pushing a mislynch and is making a pre-emptive defence.

Read Kthx's quote in context, she has taken what kthx said completely out of context to paint him scummy (and to defend Conman)

Conman is scum because nothing he says makes any sense, he has no reasoning, he is literally trolling from what I can gather, he can't answer basic questions.

Unvote
Vote: Nobody Special

had he put me ( fake ) L-1 then two people might have paniced or seen that I was done so they might have voted for me, very scummy

Why would people panic seeing you at L-1 thinking you are done and vote?

Does this make sense if hes town? no it doesn't

If scum? yes; BUSSING (in panic).

[Slandaar]

Read Kthx's quote in context, she has taken what kthx said completely out of context to paint him scummy (and to defend Conman)

I did take it in context, in that he followed it up by confirming his vote on Conman, although this may be coloured by the fact that what he was calling a scumslip is something that I've found town are just as likely to say as scum.

It wasn't a slip granted

Context:
Conman is saying he wouldn't be scum because he would hurt his faction too much
Kthx then says: being a bad town is just as bad as being bad scum ie; hes saying this argument is terrible (it is) he hurts town if hes town scum if hes scum etc.

Huntress: This kthx guy knows conman is town! he is scum making preemptive defence!

[Slandaar]

just because you don't understand him doesn't mean that he is scum
just because he has no reasoning doesn't mean that he is scum
if he is trolling it has absolutely no fucking weight on his alignment
not answering questions doesn't. make. someone. scum.

Trolling is scummy.
Avoiding questions is scummy (without reason)
Having no reasoning is scummy.

I will accept not understanding him was a bit unfair, however the rest stands.

[Slandaar]

In fact, Huntress could be scum with Conman town.

Hrm.

Let me think

[Slandaar]

My play hasn't drastically changed no.

Rainbow thought it had though.

[Slandaar]

Fixed that for you.

Thanks buddy!

However, Conman and Huntress scum together? Does that add up with Huntress preemptively painting Kthxbye in a bad light for suggesting Conman is town (which would be wrong and Huntress would know that)? Hmm ...

I think it is taken out of context as she was trying too hard to find a way to defend him.

its also possible Huntress Scum knowing Conman is town.

I think Conman lynch needs to happen though, hes too scummy independently.

[Slandaar]

okay now there's.... something. slaandar's got something here I think...... Okay slandaar. Are you willing to vote kthx based on this? It's pretty compelling...... The thing is. Huntess and kthx can't both be scum. Well I guess they could but it doesn't look like it. I'm thinking that conman is town. and if we lynch him we are just wasting our time. But at the same time... i'm not ready to vote for kthx. so I'm wanting to play it safe here

VOTE: No Lynch

I know I make good points thanks.

I can't figure out where he gets the idea I am suggesting kthx is scum from this post.

[Slandaar]

I don't really like to quick lynch before I have time to ask questions and wait for answers so I can based reads on people. I think the longer Day 1 is the easier in the long run it will be to catch scum.
Why are you so eager to cut it short?

@Mala: This game is beyond stalled. Many a lurker, many a fluff poster. I feel that a Conman lynch/flip will give us much more information than pulling the teeth that are answers out of over half the

lurkers

players in this game.

top and bottom contradict

Top is saying he wants to draw the day out to get answers bottom is saying lets lynch conman!!!111

[Slandaar]

---

@Slandaar:

I remember that game with RD, but I sure as don't see where RD saying that the play has changed. I remember him giving you another chance.

There's also another theory that you haven't even decided to think about regarding Huntress.

Why don't you think Kthx is scum?

Also, if you read my post you would have realized I asked Kthx a set of questions which he answered. I'm trying to wrap my head around why either 1. You didn't read most of my post or 2. You didn't realize what Kthx answered was coming from me in the first place.

Because he thought my play had changed; but the point is, no, it hasn't changed.

And that Theory is?

The thing with him is he is just so bullish.

I read your post and made my post, then an hour later came back and read the bits I hadn't/posted rest Timestamps can verify it is just a 'Sland was posting at work' tell.

[Slandaar]

Absta is town btw

I find it highly amusing Absta spells Filler Filer and the Mala thinks she spelt it wrong initially so also spells it filer

Anyways will read this wall stuff and figure out whats going on later.

[Slandaar]

Whats the difference between dodging and panic exactly?

[Slandaar]

If I had to guess based on Comans list I would guess a Conman/SK/SiN team.

Just sayin.

[Slandaar]

Anyways

VOTE: D3x

Hi new-guy

[Slandaar]

@slandaar- do you really feel that the best use of your vote is on me at this point in the game {latestage rvs}? do you not feel that there's enough happening to comment much? you've been riding that conman vote for ages, do you feel that my entrance into the game has diminished conman's scum potential or are you planning on hopping right back on? i'm not seeing a whole lot of content from you, recently a lot of scumteam speculation w/o much else.

I have been voting conman for ages, what was my vote accomplishing?

Your entrance into the game obviously changed nothing re Conman and yep I will hop back on later probably. What does this tell you?

[Slandaar]

Absta is town btw

Explain plz.

He was too annoyed with me for voting him earlier. Chasing me to the ends of the earth etc is town.

[Slandaar]

Why have you been riding that Conman vote for so long?

Well, assuming you think he's Scum, it's pushing the Wagon.

Scum found.

I asked him what the point of leaving my vote on Conman was he says; to push wagon

He then later is asking me why I was voting Conman so long.

Hes scum; it is clear cognitive dissonance, I am scummy for voting Conman so long AND I should be voting Conman to push the wagon.

Can't be both ergo d3x is scum.

I voted him for the obvious reasons of meph getting caught then flaking instantly, not randomly, although it is how I made it appear to see how d3x would react and obviously not well at all.

[Slandaar]

Nope;

D3X: Town should use their vote to push a wagon
Then D3X asks:
Why were you voting him for so long?

See how the first point answers the question; Its clear scum cognitive dissonance

Amazingly; Reasons can be found dotted through my ISO.

[Slandaar]

Amazing.

Why isn't any of this inventing arguments scummy again meph? do tell.

DERP.

I never connected Kthxbye's question with Conman's post. I derped that up. Now I see the point that you all were making; that being said, my opinion of Conman has not changed.

I'll have a more substantial post later today.

Meph last post

Oh Dex what is this? did he get caught and then never post his promised content?

No! it can't be!

I wanted to see his explanation but obviously he never posted it.

[Slandaar]

I don't answer pointless questions; as I said; reasons can clearly be found in my ISO.

Conman is scum because nothing he says makes any sense, he has no reasoning, he is literally trolling from what I can gather, he can't answer basic questions.

Unvote
Vote: Nobody Special

had he put me ( fake ) L-1 then two people might have paniced or seen that I was done so they might have voted for me, very scummy

Why would people panic seeing you at L-1 thinking you are done and vote?

Does this make sense if hes town? no it doesn't

If scum? yes; BUSSING (in panic).

When you say dodging Gorgon what are you suggesting I was trying to achieve?

[Slandaar]

218 sums up my reasoning pretty well.

That was the point of quoting it; it is not comparable because I have already answered the question before the question was asked; Ergo; pointless question.

Which follows on to; What is scummy then about 'dodging' a pointless question?

[Slandaar]

2- How is this a seperate point from 1?

I didn't say it was; you are the one who numbered everything.

Does it really matter if it is the same or different? how does it make him town exactly?

3- How is trolling scummy? I can't begin to tell you how many players on this site troll as a way of life. Many as a way of ScumHunting.

Trolling removes all responsibility from your posting, which benefits you if you don't want people to read you. It can also be used as a reaction test occasionally.

(Conman was not reaction testing)

4- How is this scummy? You didn't answer my questions. You felt that they were 'pointless'. I disagree and apparently a number of others do as well. Does that make you scummy?

Which of your pointless questions have I not answered dex?

I gave a reason; he hasn't.

Further, how do any of the points listed above seperate him from VI?

Yes yes the VI argument, good job, how about we just call anyone who does something scummy VI?

Did you miss the part where I said that I prefer interactions to archive diving for my ScumHunting? Why wouldn't you just point me in the right direction if you felt this way?

Dex accuses me of something he had to have read the thread for he is then asking me for my reasoning now he is saying 'oh why didn't you link me to it originally! I don't archive dive I couldn't have seen your posts when I read the thread initially! I was just accusing you of something with no actual backing.'

[Slandaar]

also; Why did you ignore my Panic point Dex? Couldn't think of an excuse for him?

[Slandaar]

You didn't have numbers in front of each point, but that doesn't matter when you list them. I broke them down for ease of reference. I'd like to note that you didn't respond to the question, btw.

What question?

Note how Dex ignored my question; why does it matter if they are the same or different (it doesn't it still makes conman scum)

Why can you not look at your own case and tell me why the actions listed are scummy? You say the same thing twice and can't tell me why it's scummy either time? Your only responce is 'I didn't number my points'?

I can thanks.

This is what D3x ACTUALLY said/asked;

1- That is a ridiculous generalization. I've been able to follow what he's saying most of the time.
2- How is this a seperate point from 1?

Making no sense and having no reasoning is fairly similar, but really, who cares? who actually cares? it is still ridiculously scummy to have no actual reasoning behind what you are doing and then avoiding questions about the actions.

Now; What does it matter if its the same point?

It is also a thing people on the internet do. Even with your answer, I don't see how this is explicitly scummy. Hell, I could argue that fitz is trolling, with his "zzzzzzzzz" posting, his blatant tunnelling, his talk of wasted votes, and his attempts to shame people into voting Conman. I don't neccessarily think he's Scum for it.

If someone is joking through a whole game not taking anything seriously; is it scummy or just null because 'people on the internet do it' ?

Answer: scummy, why? because they are not taking any responsibility or accountability for their actions.

Same thing with trolling, they are close enough to the same thing, you are doing it to make it hard to read you; town don't need to do that. Occasional is a bit different, but the whole game? its scummy.

I seem to remember asking point by point how the actions you’ve listed are scummy.

You did not do that. I don’t see how this then becomes relevant. If you can’t tell me how the actions are scummy, I don’t think he’s done anything scummy. It then stands to reason that his poor play is caused not by him being Scum, but by being VI. All of the points you referenced in reasons to Vote him are more easily answered by poor play, not scummy play.

I don't seem to remember you asking that. Quote it.

Nope scummy not poor. Example; If he were just VI why didn't he just say 'I was joking' or 'it was random' etc etc to NS question about the voting pattern? instead of plain ignoring? he has nothing to hide, right?

I assume you have a rational explanation that doesn't involve VI VI hes a VI!!!

Even recent question avoiding backs this up substantially that was just the first one.

I will post later ran out of time for now.

[Slandaar]

Kindly refer back to Gorgon’s p405. Yeah, you answered, after someone voted you for dodging.

Actually I answered before as shown here;

Amazingly; Reasons can be found dotted through my ISO.

Say I dodged though, why would I when I can go and get 4 or 5 quotes in my ISO? explain why it is scummy.

I seem to remember asking point by point how the actions you’ve listed are scummy. You did not do that. I don’t see how this then becomes relevant. If you can’t tell me how the actions are scummy, I don’t think he’s done anything scummy. It then stands to reason that his poor play is caused not by him being Scum, but by being VI. All of the points you referenced in reasons to Vote him are more easily answered by poor play, not scummy play.

They are so blatantly obvious I shouldn't need to.

Here this is very very basic;
If the game was in RVS forever, the town would never get anywhere, ergo the RVS is proscum. If someone continually votes with no reasoning ie RVS voting then it is pro scum ie scummy.

Did you really need me to explain this to you? (rhetorical; of course you didn't)

No, I didn’t think it was part of the reasons you were voting him, as you failed to list this after you wrote…

Conman is scum because...

snip

Frankly, I thought it was commentary on ongoing conversation, which it was. If you’d like me to respond to that now, sure. If he’s Town, then he should have a legitimate concern for being MisLynched especially if so many people are tunnelling him.

Well I wasn't calling him town there; It seems pretty obvious to me that was a reason.

Anyways; You are ignoring the point

Town is at L-2: 'Oh no only 2 more votes till I am lynched! people might panic and lynch me...' because?

This is a question you need to answer; why would people panic and lynch him if he is town?

[Slandaar]

You do indeed have your reasons for suspecting Conman summed up somewhat in ISO, but the question/request that you clarify your reasons was nevertheless reasonable IMO. Reacting to it gives new information while simply referring back to what you've said earlier (which you btw didn't do until your next post, as far as I can tell) gives less information. I find d3x's stated MO of hunting through ongoing interaction valid. So I don't think the question was pointless and therefore your question is meaningless to me.

Ok nice waffle but the point was this;
If I have quotes in my ISO and tell him they are there what is scummy about not actually getting the quotes or writing out the reasoning ? (repeating myself)

[Slandaar]

Dex is clearly scum; as soon as I explain my reasoning which he has pestered me for he throws his toys out the pram and calls it semantics.

[Slandaar]

#316 - Guessing at a Conman, SK and SiN team

I have been drinking so eh I will post tomorrow properly but this I don't remember saying; I have never thought that was the scum.

[Slandaar]

VOTE: d3x

scum #2

Will post content when I have time

(V/LA till about the 30th)

[Slandaar]

Yeah sorry will post tomorrow going out now will have proper access after tonight

[Slandaar]

Conman

- 1st 2 Votes of D1 are on Slandaar and absta, before any real pressure on them has one listed Town and one listed 'Undetermined' here, weak flip on Slandaar here, super weak flip on Slandaar read here to which he never responds to the 'points' specifically despite requests, End of Day Bus Vote on Slandaar when it looked to be the only way to save his own ass {outlined previously}, Survivor mentality, flipped Scum PR

Yes, that is why he was scum along with his other nonsense.

Note: survivor mentality explains all his 'flips' on me. It is clear when he started to call me town was because I wasn't voting him any longer ie buddying.

Slandaar

- weak Vote on Conman Wagon for most of the Day, then jumps to me for made up reasons {detailed previously}, cannot get back to Conman Wagon to earn TownCred b/c it would look terribad, the rest of the case was presented previously... multiple times

Why would I 'weak vote' a buddy? I would gain no towncred.

Keep twisting things, I would obviously have voted Conman if I were around when the lynch happened he flips scum how do I look 'terribad'?

Anyways, anyone can meta me to see I never unbus when I am bussing, I ride the wagon the whole way (if you bus you need to get towncred from it) so I am pretty obvtown at this point considering I was the counterwagon to scum and meta etc.

So...

Meph defends Conman as he was new and felt bad, I pointed out how obvious Conman was, Meph still says he thinks the case is bad and then Vanishes without explanation.

Dex replaces in again defends Conman using the VI defence and tries to start a counterwagon to save his buddy, Conman of course switches his town read on me to scum and sheeps him, Dex ignores this because he has to as there is no way to defend it even the VI defence doesn't work here.

Now, the reason the VI defence was so bad is because if someone is a VI they will be as scum also (call it an SI), but when they are just making stuff up as they go along there is no town motivation behind it, you don't just make something up as town as Dex knows as shown;

then jumps to me for made up reasons {detailed previously},

Dex's whole case on me is basically that he is trying to push I made up reasons (I didn't but ignore that) the point is, he knows it is scummy but he still says Conman is town when half the case on Conman was exactly the same.

So why did he think he was town? (he shouldn't have hes scum)

[Slandaar]

So, explaining the Absta thing; basically we were in a different game where he was lynched and I was scum and I had buddied him hard, I made a bad assumption thinking he knew I was scum there; he obviously didn't but hence I expected him to vote me and he thought it strange.

Anyways that is pretty irrelevant now.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar, reads on SiN, NS and qwints at this point in the game?

town/town/town

Gorgon is the 3rd scum I expect.

Everything you just agreed to points to you and him being ScumBuddies... um...

Everything you said was Conman did X; He voted me when I had votes he called me town when I stopped voting him aka Survival Mentality. How is this related to my alignment exactly Dex?

This doesn't make any sense. I'm saying that he was playing Survivor Mafia over protecting his ScumBuddy {read- you}. Were you following the conversation instead of tunnelling me, you'd have seen that. How would a Survivor mentality equate to him changing his 'read' on you multiple times?

See above.

This is a bit of a weasley statement. In the post immediately before your UnVote, you called him out as part of the 3man Scum Team.

Explain how you believe he flipped your Vote b/c it was no longer OMGUS, plz

See above (2) Lots of words saying the same thing.

Bolded: Explain where I said anything like that. He didn't flip my vote I changed it.

{whch is what you are implying}.

Nope;

Note: survivor mentality explains all his 'flips' on me. It is clear when

he started to call me town was because I wasn't voting him any longer

ie buddying.

He called me town BECAUSE I wasn't voting him

Nice misrep.

I've already covered this point, but one more time for oldies sake, eh? You voted him weakly early in the Day. You would gain TownCred by riding the Wagon to it's termination {Scum flip}. You got on the Wagon for weak reasons and when the heat started dissipating, you left the Wagon for an RVS Vote, then tried to pass it off as prescience.

OK that is one version of events the true version is;

I voted him because he made some junk up then just voted you to explore new avenues ie a different scumread as the conman wagon was not going anywhere fast.

So, really this is just pointless.

And when exactly were you planning on getting back on the Wagon? You kept your Vote on me and were definitely around when the Wagons were neck and neck.

How is this twisting anything, check the Iso Vote counts and your posts. I'll wait...

I would obviously vote my scumread to save myself at deadline over you so... how do I look terribad again when I do this? how do I look terribad again by voting him if I was around when he had 4 or 5 votes by saying 'Well Dex isnt going today will just vote Conman' ?

Do Explain.

Bolded: How about you show that I was around during the end of day. I think last I saw he had like 3 or 4 votes then he was just dead.

What does Neck and Neck have to do with anything, at all? the wagons could be 1/1 with 6 to lynch thats neck and neck, there were days left before deadline I was happy where my vote was and still am.

So, when did you plan to get back on the Wagon? You abandoned the Conman Wagon when it lost steam for a weak Vote against me. You didn't get back on the Conman Wagon. You were pushing hard against me while the Conman Wagon gained steam back. If you had jumped back on right before the Lynch, yes, it would've looked terribad. It would've looked exactly like what it would've been... a last minute TownCred Bus Vote.

Above.

I don't feel like responding to the rest of this nonsense from dex right now.

[Slandaar]

Pressured I am

[Slandaar]

OK

Most flakes do that... :/ If you had bothered to check, meph SiteFlaked. There are a thousand reasons why someone does that. He made 9 posts on MafiaScum in total.

Lets set the record straight shall we Dex?

Meph flaked from his only game ie this one, to call it a site flake is beyond manipulative. He obviously knows this so;

Now we will look at what Dex says here;

I believe that absta tried to defend against the Wagon, but didn't want to come across as hardlined as SiN or Meph/myself and threw in the towel when he realized that his play was inconsistent, scummy, and would be looked at very closely after the ScumFlip.

This is basically what I was saying; Meph threw in the towel and why? because he realised Conman was doomed and he would look bad for defending him and not even seeing the very obvious case against him.

So, why does Dex think this;

Please continue pointing to this as a ScumTell. It's very becoming of your ScumHunting prowess...

(hes scum)

Plain and simple, I didn't believe he was Scum. There is no 'defending' something that doesn't need defending. I'm not ignoring anything. I came out in the 1st post of D2 and said it, I even said that I can see how others would find that scummy. What do you think I've been ignoring, exactly? If that's it, I'm not doing a very good job of ignoring something that I'm pointing out, huh?

OK here is the point for those who can't follow;
Dex is basically saying being a VI makes you immune from all scumtells.

Clearly is plain bad.

The rest of your post is Confirmation Bias. Of course I can call his play like it was D2, I know he was Scum now. Nothing in his play pointed Scum to me. If I didn't read the flip, I'd still think he was VI. I would've backed a Policy Lynch on him before MyLo, but that's it {unless he started acting scummy, imo}. The difference between where you Quoted me and my opinion of Conman is that I don't think you're a VI. Way to take that Quote out of context, btw...

Again Dex is saying 'he was VI he was VI'

Yes, so what? he was SI, what is the difference? why does VI allow one to make stuff up and just vote anyone with any case made on them?

@p644 - I now see why you spent the entirity of your interactions for 9 pages on that...

If you had checked you would know he was chasing me about it I really didn't care.

Now, what doesn't make sense exactly?

He clearly didn't understand my breakdown of Conman's play D1 was in relation to him and only reinforced my case against him.

OK Let me see here...

Everything you said was Conman did X; He voted me when I had votes he called me town when I stopped voting him aka Survival Mentality. How is this related to my alignment exactly Dex?

I clearly say; how is this related to my alignment ie I knew what he was saying ie Dex is basically just inventing things here or maybe he has selective memory one can never be sure.

I need to write out a proper case I think.

Gorgon feels slimy to me His posts just very manufactured. his story is; votes conman unvotes because 'oh noes L-1' then never rejoins and his dodging argument was beyond laughable I don't see town making it; 'he is dodging explaing why conman inventing reads is scummy!, he is dodging explaining why voting people with no reason is scummy! he is also dodging why avoiding questions is scummy!' nonsensical.

And he fits with Dex nicely one recent example;

It is clear when he started to call me town was because I wasn't voting him any longer ie buddying.

This is a bit of a weasley statement. In the post immediately before your UnVote, you called him out as part of the 3man Scum Team.

Explain how you believe he flipped your Vote b/c it was no longer OMGUS, plz {whch is what you are implying}.

I don't quite understand what you meant by the bolded part.

@all who think the Slandaar/d3x thing is just noise... please just ignore that portion of my posts. I have cases/connections to other players in the posts where we're arguing that I would like to see discussed as well.

Hell, I'd even like Slandaar to comment on them...

Second thought, I'd

really

like Slandaar to comment on them.

Good Answer

Dex ignored him asking the question which is suspect to say the least.

[Slandaar]

This game needs life.

[Slandaar]

Dex honestly I have read your Dunham case which is an Absta case really; the only thing worth noting is the giving up thing, but I still doubt he is scum. In case its not obvious I am working through the posts directed at me hence I have not gotten to this bit yet. Gorgon post is next iirc.

[Slandaar]

This is plain ol' WIFOM. It shows clearly that you know what your usual bussing behavior is and that you deviated from it and then point out this fact in your defense. What's there to prevent us from suspecting that scum-you is doing this on purpose?

It is WIFOM by definition, yes, but the fact is if I always do it (and I do) it means I think the strategy is good, hence going against it needs to reap benefits which as you say would be using the meta argument.
(or it could be meta reads fake tells etc but that obviously isn't the case as noone here knows my meta)

Now, lets be honest, how often do people say x is my meta i'm town! and people actually believe them? it never happens because everyone says WIFOM! I obviously know this and so go back to what benefits do I think I get from using a strategy which I must consider bad (as I never use it whatever the 'strategy' was you think I used here); the answer is none I seriously can't think of any and it just seems bad to not just sit on the wagon if I were scum.

I mean compare the meta argument even if it swayed 2 people it won't just make them go 'locktown' against the towncred from a full bus and its not close, especially on someone like Conman who was lynched anyways.

In short; I am town.

You mean like this?

Conman, please let know exactly what swayed you from the last few pages.

So, you don't find it suspicious when Conman doesn't reply x2 Dex is still pushing my wagon and ignores the issue?

I see.

Also, Conman (#414) was parroting me if anything, as he didn't add his vote to your wagon until I joined in and took d3x's side against you. Also, before I added my vote SiN had joined your wagon (#402), albeit with no stated reasoning. Conman had plenty of time to add his vote right after d3x's but he didn't until the wagon was gained some momentum.

Eh you were both basically sheeping Dex from what I could tell so he basically sheeped him also; nitpicking.

Him voting later when he had the chance earlier is probably because he wouldn't just hop on straight away with his buddy needs at least one town vote...

It's also of note that Conman talks about us guys making some 'good points', which he also said in #318 when joining a wagon on fitz, explicitly parroting SiN whom I believe to be town. He also said it about confirmed townie Huntress in #126, although he wasn't joining a wagon then. This does, at mininum, suggest that Conman is not that simple to read that one can automatically assume that him parroting others means said others are his scumbuddies.

OK? that wasn't what I was saying, at all.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar why are you still continually defending Absta-slot?

Because I think hes town? Continually defending is a bit over exaggerated but still.

Wow, I missed this earlier ... it pays to reread thoroughly.

@Kthx, If you want to bring up my meta, how about bringing up my Scum meta? Have you ever known me to hardline defend a ScumBuddy like this? I pretty much always bus the hell out of them whether they are under fire or not. It sounds so much more convincing that way. If I'm not bussing them, I'm usually ignoring them. Why would I take such a hardline stance against someone who tied for the highest Wagon when I replace in and is the obv Lynch of the Day?

This is just as much WIFOM as Slandaar's defence. I really hate this sort of rhetoric as again, there's no discounting the possibility that the player simply purposely went against meta in order to be able to point out that they are going against meta.

It's slightly annoying you posted this as it messes things up a bit.

My super mega Gorgon-Dex team case would have included it but now I don't know, I just don't know. It was brought up at a strange time but, would you really know about it? Thinking.

[Slandaar]

Will catchup later.

[Slandaar]

Im not lurking just havn't had a lot of time last couple days lurking and having no time are completely different.

Quite liked Mala wagon

Don't like rofl wagon

What is this really good point kthx?

I don't think I am going to respond to all the other walls aimed at me if there is something you feel is super important in them let me know but it is going to consume way too much time replying to it all.

Gorgon and Dex are not buddies, which makes Gorgon town by default and then the second scum is probably Qwints; he buddied me I think.

[Slandaar]

liked ie past tense

read my posts for the rest of the nonsense

kthxbye

[Slandaar]

eh that point is the only one i consider legit, still I am pretty sure the slot is town.

[Slandaar]

I have read everything thanks. Where do you get the impression I havn't?

Yes, Mala looked like scum to me for the conftown comment, 706 is before mala wagon, you have continuity issues.

Everyone was a townread except dex after mala so I thought about things and came to the conclusion qwints makes the most sense of whats left.

[Slandaar]

D3x very likely isn't scum. I know d3x very well and he would have bussed the hell out of conman from the start. Could he change up his meta? Sure, but that would only get him town cred from me where bussing conman would give him town cred from everyone.

So, you are not admitting to your error in continuity, instead defend dex with meta (which is failry irrelevant considering he replaced in after the conman wagon had a few votes already ie the towncred he would gain would not be that high ergo the situations you describe are different)

[Slandaar]

Massclaim seems fine though SK should have set the order and should claim last.

But anyways I am happy claiming after Dex so will wait on him.

[Slandaar]

vt

[Slandaar]

So, the last scum is in the VT's of;
rofl/sin/d3x/gorgon/Me

the other 3 are basically clear.

Lynch 1
vig 1 leaves 3 with a rb/vig

if vig leaves 2, scum shoot leaves 2/2 is not a win with RB left or Vig after lynch (both is win but scum won't leave both)
if rb town leaves 2 suspects alive
Scum shoot clear leaves 3 clear town alive with one of the 3 clear + the original 2 = 3/2 so that is a win lynch/lynch remaining unclear.

if rb town + scum doesn't shoot, leaves 3 clear and 3 unclear still, but assume the rb'ed is lynched leaves 3/2 scum shot + NS shot is 2/1 is a win.

if rb scum basically is the same scenario as above except lynch on rb'ed player is the win.

The only issue is when Scum have another PR.

So;
JOAT/Masons/ONVig

Seems quite a lot; scum had 1shot bp/goon/unknown, I think its close, if they have another PR it is probably something weak and I honestly can't think of what, odd night mafia doctor? seems outrageous honestly so I think we are ok to follow the rb plan for an autowin.

Basically (I know my workings out are a mess) Vig tonight from NS and vig from kthx doesn't guarantee win, RB however does as long as the RB'ed player is lynched if no kill from scum AND scum have no other PR which I think is likely; there really isn't anything scum RB is too strong for the setup with 1shot bp a second 1shot bp? then the vig shots are absolutely pointless.

Will check this later after work to make sure I didn't screw it up horribly but I think it is right.

[Slandaar]

I actually meant even night so that the vig/doc didn't clash (a counter to JOAT sort of thing) odd night would be too strong as it would give 2/3 scum immunity to odd night vig making the vig fairly useless for town.

But yes, unlikely, it would only matter if it was SK which is too wildtheoryesque to worry about.

[Slandaar]

rofl/sin

including SK seems pointless.