NY 160B - Welcome to Castle Zar - TIME FOR FIREWORKS!

[Mehdi2277]

I can do it more too. First game on site where I said I self meta as town a lot more (newbie 1268). It's fun isn't it. If I'm going to defend a scum tell I've never done as scum meta works whether you like it or not.

[roflcopter]

we'll see when i'm done lynching you

now more votes everybody

[ArcAngel9]

Vi - What are your reasons to suspect me? Explain yourself?
Because i see your trying harder to frame me, I know what is my role and your push to get me killed give me every reason to suspect you!!

What have you done thus far that would cause me to believe you are Town?

Why wouldn't answer straight? I asked you to state ther reason suspect me but vauge answer proves that you dont have reason and you just want to kill me for no reason? This is the most scummiest move ever. Either you're really don't know how to play or your'e SCUM or lousy townie.

[ArcAngel9]

RoflCopter

what is your opinon about Vi, Mehdi & Tammy
and Is there any one who you think are scummy?
your reply will be appreciated.

[Mehdi2277]

He's voting me and pushing me a lot. I think he thinks I'm scummy.

[roflcopter]

RoflCopter

what is your opinon about Vi, Mehdi & Tammy
and Is there any one who you think are scummy?
your reply will be appreciated.

is this question for real? i thought you had read everyone enough to create that page of opinions on everyone. my iso is like 14 lines long right now, and i've said the answers to all of these questions already.

vi and tammy - town
mehdi - scum

now just vote for mehdi already

[Vi]

Vi - What are your reasons to suspect me? Explain yourself?
Because i see your trying harder to frame me, I know what is my role and your push to get me killed give me every reason to suspect you!!

What have you done thus far that would cause me to believe you are Town?

Why wouldn't answer straight? I asked you to state ther reason suspect me but vauge answer proves that you dont have reason and you just want to kill me for no reason? This is the most scummiest move ever. Either you're really don't know how to play or your'e SCUM or lousy townie.

Setting aside my lack of skill for a moment - why haven't you voted yet?

[Empire]

Why is anything that ArcAngel said alignment-relevant?

Erm, thought I explained why in #112 but to elaborate a little more: when reading newer players, I put more emphasis on tone than I usually do. This is because, well, they're newbies - they often do dumb things and they often haven't developed their skill at scumhunting so a lot of the stuff about "passivity" is something I tend to see in newer players a lot. Hell, even if you've played elsewhere, you still need to get used to the site culture/meta (I know I spent months casually following ongoing games here before I even made an account).

Since I had a different reason then one given before which I already said. I found the fact emp wasn't explaining first when I was used to him walling from the beginning to be a bit strange and voted him.

...wait, what? How can you be "used to" me walling from the beginning? You've only played two games with me, both of them were in hydras where I play very differently. This was my very first post in Open 463, hardly a wall. Every single unsigned post from that hydra after #68 is from Tammy. In fact, I'm pretty sure the only wallpost I ever wrote in that whole game was the infamous Tierce meta-case. Most of the posts from Gentlemen Bastards in Marketplace II were from Regfan, the few times I did post I did so concisely. So how in the world could you have possibly developed that meta so quickly? (Now I'm starting to see why others are calling your vote on me scummy.)

Response to MoI's #153 and DV's #204:

Taking these two together because I don't want to make this wall more unwieldy and the issues/questions they bring up overlap.
- The Vi comment was basically me fucking around since he's a friend and one of the few people I talk to off-site so I just wanted to take a little jab at him. It wasn't meant to be any sort of reaction test which is why I never brought it up again.
- Over-explanation is what I do. The running joke is that I basically play like a version of Regfan and it's (embarrassingly) true. Here are some instances of me over-explaining stuff: Micro 34 (here and here, Micro 54 as a replace-in here, and Mini 1373 here and here (on my now discarded main, satire). Furthermore, given that we only have one week deadlines you better bet that I'm going to try and draw as much as I possibly can from each game day.
- Refer to the top of this post regarding my townread on AA9. As for the preference issue, my understanding is that most people generally tend to prefer being town as opposed to scum (

silly

outliers like Faraday and RedCoyote notwithstanding). Like I suggested with my AA9 townread earlier, newer players have a habit of clamming up and struggling what to say as scum. You can disagree with it as an empirical matter but from my experience that leads to the inference that newer players are typically very uncomfortable playing scum. I'm not seeing that discomfort at all in AA9's posting which is the basis of my townread on that slot.
- No I am not a Westeros regular though coincidentally I did make an account there today =P
- MoI, I asked you the question because my impression was that you still posted during your V/LAs, only less frequently (sorry for the mistake). As for the reason behind asking you the question, it's because I've been trying to develop a meta on Vi - started to work on it a bit while in Open 463 but then stopped when the meta case on Tierce was sufficient to get the slot lynched. Wanted to see what you had.

---

Updated reads in next post as I've noticed there's been a flurry of posting since I've been writing this and I want to make sure I haven't missed anything. If I haven't responded to specific questions in here, please let me know.

[Mehdi2277]

Since I equate you with walling off memory more. I've never played with you as scum, but I knew that you're more apathetic and like scum less. Same way I knew you tend to analyze a lot.

[ArcAngel9]

RoflCopter

what is your opinon about Vi, Mehdi & Tammy
and Is there any one who you think are scummy?
your reply will be appreciated.

is this question for real? i thought you had read everyone enough to create that page of opinions on everyone. my iso is like 14 lines long right now, and i've said the answers to all of these questions already.

vi and tammy - town
mehdi - scum

now just vote for mehdi already

and why you think VI and Tammy are Town?

[ArcAngel9]

Vi - What are your reasons to suspect me? Explain yourself?
Because i see your trying harder to frame me, I know what is my role and your push to get me killed give me every reason to suspect you!!

What have you done thus far that would cause me to believe you are Town?

Why wouldn't answer straight? I asked you to state ther reason suspect me but vauge answer proves that you dont have reason and you just want to kill me for no reason? This is the most scummiest move ever. Either you're really don't know how to play or your'e SCUM or lousy townie.

Setting aside my lack of skill for a moment - why haven't you voted yet?

Because i am not irrational. I am giving you more time to defend yoruself, that's what townies do.
You clearly seem to have a problem with that.

Let me make you happy for a while!!!

VOTE : VI

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Lolzee.

[Zar]

For a very long time, many a folk believed the statue of Count Yates would come to life when a member of the family was near death. Paradoxically, whenever a member of the Zar family died within Castle grounds, the grave keepers would report that the sickle held by the statue of the Count would appear to have blood in its blade. For a guided tour of the Castle crypts, please contact the Zar Estate Concierge at the Lobby.

Day 1, Votecount 8

Mehdi2277 (6): SnowStorm, Vi, Johhog, Tammy, roflcopter, Ser Arthur Dayne

Johhog (2): Mehdi2277, Baby Spice
Nobody Special (2): Empire, Konowa
Vi (2): DeasVail, ArcAngel9
Empire (1): MagnaOfIllusion
Konowa (1): Nobody Special

Not Voting (1):

Kingmaker

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline

: Friday, December 21st, 2012 1:00 PM New York Time. (GMT-5) (End of the Mayan Calendar! )

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2012-12-21 13:00:00)

[Empire]

Picking up where I left off, have a pretty decent list of townreads, though I'm a little light on the scumreads I feel like I'm inching closer to being able to PoE this game. Here's a quick summary:

Ok, I know I'm preaching to the choir here but, to use her own words, Tammy is "holy fuck" town. Her first content post of the game in #123 fits her town meta to a T, especially re: her being on the fence regarding AA9 ("her passivity rubs me the wrong way..." / "there is something that makes me lean town here but I can't put my finger on it...") as I know that kind of waffliness is the way she thinks about and discusses her reads as town. Really like her townread on Johhog, especially the meta reference to Rocky Horror too and the suspicion over Mehdi's vote on me is super genuine. I'm also liking roflcopter's entrance into the game as I'm thinking him hipfiring the three townreads in his first serious post and then following up with the vote on Mehdi + questioning in #127 fits his town meta. Fairly sure I've seen rofl set up conditional lynches like in #127 as town before (and I

think

I remember the specific game) but need to double check on this. Liked rofl calling out MoI for overreacting in #244 as I was also weirded out a bit by that too. Loved Arthur coming in, placing down a silent vote on Mehdi and proceeding to question Konowa as that kind of reaction test is what I've seen him do in Open 463 with Tammy and I - I know as town he loves to get his hands dirty, throw himself into the fray, and get reads on people by doing crazy shit like that. I remember hearing/reading somewhere (maybe from Tammy?) that Arthur's a little more self conscious as scum and I'm not seeing that at all, especially considering his responses to Konowa and MoI. Johhog looks even better in his back and forth with Mehdi as I think his frustration is genuine and his reasoning for continuing to push on him is understandable.

Honestly, as against the grain as this is going to sound, I'm liking AA9 more for town. The "slow this down" attitude of #176 and #179 rings genuine and I feel like she's really struggling to get reads this game. Liked the townreads on myself and MoI for "good reasoning" and being open minded in #186 and the whole conspiracy-based suspicion of Vi and Tammy seems really unlikely to come from scum as I think she's being genuinely paranoid, especially considering how she reaches out to Mehdi in #213 and considers the players on his wagon. #234 reaction to being faked vigged and being frustrated that Vi isn't "playing the game" is super genuine too. Why do people think she's scum again?

Not really seeing the Vi townreads myself, thinking the call for AA9 to be vigged is just Vi being Vi and nothing really alignment indicative. Really need to hear more for him re: his reads with reasoning on others. Also need to hear more from Kingmaker, Baby Spice, and DV. I'm kind of with Arthur that Baby "coming to Mehdi's rescue" by voting Johhog is strange and, looking back, her angle on NS in #64 is also weird. Liked DV's meta-reference in #204 but that's a super minor thing, waiting to hear on his reads after he goes through everything again.

Reminder to self to look at the NS meta and that roflcopter game.

Town (S->W):

Tammy, Johhog, AA9, Arthur, Snow, roflcopter, Konowa

Scum team is in {NS, Mehdi, MoI, Vi, Baby Spice, Kingmaker, DV}

[Mehdi2277]

Emp is your reasoning on snow the same and why is he stronger then rofl?

[Empire]

Ok, managed to glaze over that roflcopter-town ISO I was referencing. It was Mini 1343 - The Murder of Papa Zito where he spent a large part of his early game chaining KageLord and Pine together as a scum pair. Recalled this one because it was one of the first games I followed while it was ongoing here on MS before I made my account.

P-Edit: reasoning on Snow is the same, roflcopter and him are basically equivalent on the little scale thing. What was the point of this question anyway (feels like a really minor thing to ask about)?

[Mehdi2277]

Since I find the reasoning on snow weakest at the moment as a town read (the only one I completely disagree with is joh though). That and I give more weight to the chain lynching as a town tell comment since it wouldn't actually occur.

[Baby Spice]

I've had a lot of unexpected work dumped on me yesterday and today that has to be done, but should hopefully be finished it tommorow.

[Tammy]

Archangel is weird. I don't necessarily agree with empire on his town read of archangel but that's mainly because of her passivity rubs me the wrong way, most specifically her refusal to give any of her own thoughts. Especially when they post the same exact question in more than one game. I find her complaints about there not being any scum hunting, but no proactivity to actually do anything herself as off especially after claiming to have experience as both alignments. (there is something that makes me lean town here but I can't put my finger on it and wouldn't at all be upset at a VIG shot here)

Totally would not mind a vig of archangel and am slightly town reading vi because of his comments on it,

Don't call me weird. I already feel alien here.. and am not rushing to vote or suspect someone without understanding anyone and to understand someone i need to know them and i haven't got crossed my ways with all the 15 players yet. so i think you need to re-think about me be different here is the fact that i am new here. and you're being judgmental.

Yes, i am experienced that is only for you to know that i am not noob in the game that doesn't mean i am not putting any effort in scum hunting.
TBH, I did asked a question to everyone, I don't see anyone actually answered that which makes me keep an eye on everyone. And how doesn't it is not looking like that i am not scum hunting. If you're townie what's stopping you to answer that question?

I wasn't calling you personally weird, and I'm sorry you took that as an insult. (I actually like weird people and consider myself somewhat weird anyway, so that wouldn't be an insult from me at all.). Your play is weird, which should be obvious as I discussed what about your play was bugging me in the entire paragraph.

You say that you're experienced but the way you're going about things don't really make sense with being experienced. Perhaps at your forum you do things differently, but you need to figure out a way to become acclimated to the style of play here.

For instance, your assertion that vi and I are trying to frame you for something makes no sense whatsoever. If we were buddies, and we're working together, and wanted you dead, we'd just kill you. Several people have commented on and criticized your play, and you are dismissing that. You are a detriment to town with the way your playing right now, and therefore I wouldn't mind if you were VIG shot. That is not meant to be an insult, and I don't have problems playing with and helping new people, but you don't seem like you want help or want to really work with us or how the game is played here. If you are town, please read a game preferably in the newbie queue as there are people there who will be answering questions that you probably have or making clear what are some things you don't seem to understand about what to expect here. This way you'll be more helpful to town overall.

[Tammy]

What was the question you asked everyone?

next time, either name or quote to ask question becuase otherwise it ll be hard to see who your question directs too.
It was general question for everyone who they currently think most scummiest person in living.

For instance...you can get a good idea for the answer to this question by looking at the vote counts as people re generally voting the person they think is scummy. The question you asked is bad for a couple of reasons and isn't going to really get you answers. One it looks like you're trying o look busy when you're not really being proactive. Second this isn't going to be met favorably because asking this of everyone looks like you're trying to figure out who it's okay to suspect because it's not you voicing any of your thoughts.

[Tammy]

Add the word a between Vi and vig. And yes I think the fact he's pushing on it is bad since so far it just seems like complaining about someone annoying (if it was someone really scummy then why is Vi not voting her).

AA the majority of the reads are summarized in one word null, so they don't really help at all. If you're commenting on different parts being willing to actually lean towards town or scum helps.

Tammy you arguing the questioning is the exact same thing I argued with joh. Read the argument between me and joh again and if it still doesn't make sense then ask me, but your last argument is nearly identical to what joh was arguing.

Currently think rofl is town too, just because speculation on someone flipping scum isn't really worth pushing on when I wouldn't flip scum.

P-edit: You realize all your scum reads are centered on me bad while joh good?

Yes, mehdi I know. I understand fine, it's you who are refusing to accept the argument against what you did and this is where I see you as scummier. You are distorting johhogs reasoning for the vote in the first place. He thinks it's scummy to go after an easy target. You are somehow now arguing something about quick lynches when that's not the same thing at all. I even told you to look back to marketplace and MoI's first post to see him pointing out scummy things done by essentially easy targets.

Johhogs reasoning for voting empire was the towniest reason there was, and your refusal to accept that you're misunderstanding something is really scummy. It's like in black flag when you and regfan got in the debate over buddying and you refused to accept the widely accepted meaning for buddying and opted for your own defintion instead. You're not also recognizing that it was scummy of you to make it sem like johhog ignored your question when he hadn't been back in the thread. Usually when town are presented with reasons for why their logic is faulty or they are calling something one thing that it isn't, town will acknowledge that. Scum are usually the ones that don't want to admit theyre wrong about an interpretation, and that is what I'm seeing here. You are too busy going "I'm right" instead of listening to what others are saying.

[Tammy]

I never said she attacked Vi. It was only a few posts ago so are my posts hard to read? You pushed me for taking the fact Vi pushed AA as scummy, but it's ok for her to get a town read on Vi for the same thing and seriously push for AA being vig shot.

See this is a really good example of my problem with you this game. You're continuing to distort. I never "seriously pushed for AA to be VIG shot.". I said I wouldn't mind if she was, and I wouldn't, as I find her a detriment to town. I don't even know if there is a VIG in this game, and my statement is similar to when I say I won't cry over the mislynch of someone I think is town but would be harmful to town come end game.

Your attempt to make something seem bigger than it is is really scummy mehdi.

[Tammy]

And you know mehdi I'm just not following you NOT understanding johhogs vote on empire and reasoning. I'm not getting you scrambling around and distorting it to call it a quicklynch or that going after an easy target isn't what a lot of scum do. In 463, your scum team went after piggy first thing. Why was that? Piggy is an easy target, easy to get a mislynch out of. You even in the mafia qt say that you guys can get mislynches out of piggy/absta/voided, so you know the concept. You know that scum will go after an easy target early if they can, because you have been on a scum team that has done that exact thing.

So, why do you find it suspicious for johhog to be suspicious of something that is well documented and a common practice for scum?

[DeasVail]

Regarding Empire, it wasn't him overexplaining, but more finding a towntell in pretty much everything Arc said. I'm not as sure of my scumread now though.

Empire, around how many games have you played as scum (solo) and in which do you think you played best?

Mehdi, do you think we should policy lynch you? (referring to the lack of difference you claim between your town and scum games)

[Empire]

Empire, around how many games have you played as scum (solo) and in which do you think you played best?

Only have two completed scum games on-site: Micro 70 and Micro 42 (as Black Mask). Can't really tell you which one I played "best" in because I feel I played pretty terribly in both of those games.

@Tammy:

What are your thoughts on the players who have posted since your #138 (specifically Arthur, MoI, roflcopter, and DV)?