Mini 1426 - Hell's Bottom

[Desperado]

I don't do RVS, so my first post is either going to be contentless or contain 'random' questions.

These two statements don't follow logically. If you don't "do" RVS, then by definition your first post should be contentful and contain pertinent questions. By saying you don't do RVS but you also aren't going to post any content, what you're really saying is "I'm going to post unreadable shit AND not give you a vote to be analyzed later." You're trying to have your cake and eat it it too.

Also, what Bub said.

Vote: Mr Flay

[Desperado]

Rainbow and Yoshi and Bub are all town until further notice, as well

[Desperado]

No Rainbow, I understood it perfectly. He's saying that he's going to engage in the spirit of the RVS stage (posting contentless bullshit) without actually randomly voting anyone, which is the only thing that RVS is even useful for. By not "doing" RVS what he's really doing is mitigating the amount of information he puts out there by not having to put a vote on someone that he would have to answer for later.

[Desperado]

Hey, Desperado, get an avatar. And then stop pulling things out of your ass. Kthanxbye.

Also, what's with the somepony thing, Rainbow? I get that it's MLP, but do you do that all game?

This is a really weird way to defend someone. You don't even point out how what I said was bullshit, like Flay did, you just (presumably) piggy-back on what he had to say. Kinda lazy honestly.

And why did you feel the need to tell me to get an avatar? Is it ruining your gameplay experience or something?

[Desperado]

These two statements don't follow logically. If you don't "do" RVS, then by definition your first post should be contentful and contain pertinent questions.

Read again. Also note that I was the FIRST person to post after the mod announced D1. What content was I going to provide/analyze, other than questions? RQS isn't for spamming, either. As already explained, my question was pertinent, both to me and to the game as a whole. How people react to it is also important (to me).

The rest of your post is (to borrow a phrase) unmitigated bullshit so it's not even worth responding to. Bub may have felt like he had a reason to vote, but you're just spouting crap. Tell me again what RVS is "for" and why I should participate in it? Nobody ever "answers" for Random Votes.

More content in the morning, but I will definitely be looking at Blue Yoshi's posts more.

Then maybe you shouldn't have been the first person to post, if you were going to insist on both 1) not posting any worthwhile content, and b) not placing an RVS vote. If you had waited until someone else posted something worthy of analysis and then led with that without ever mentioning how you just don't "do" RVS then we wouldn't even be having this conversation, would we?

Your question wasn't pertinent at all, you said yourself that you don't know any of the people in this game because you haven't played for so long, and many of the players are not long-term members of the site anyway, so it's actually the complete opposite of a pertinent question because the answer is "none of us have any fucking idea what the most dangerous scum team is."

Finally, if you can't see how something as little as an RVS vote could be used to cull information, and why you refusing to do so even though you felt the need to participate in the other facet of RVS (posting random/pointless bullshit) is scummy, then we're probably going to have a problem this game.

[Desperado]

Why dont you have problems with the other random votes?

Because none of the other random votes are on him. That was a pretty silly question.

Not to beat a deadhorse but I just don't understand these two posts from Elyse in conjunction with one another:

@MrFlay
I was just curious, that's all.

UNVOTE: Bomb
VOTE: Keybladewielder
This:

Vote KBW

Inconsequental question is inconsequental.

BB can be town for now.

VOTE: Rainbowdash

Why did you vote me? You don't know anything about me.

I hadn't even posted anything yet.

is a terrible vote. He is already showing how desperate he is to get votes off him, and it's a freaking RVS vote. Seems like he's nervous scum to me.

If you have a problem with policy-style lynches and that's what you were referring to given YOLO's response then I understand, because at this point that's the only justification for a KBW lynch. Frankly, I'm suspicious of anyone that's voting him right now (oh hey look Flay just voted him with flimsy/policy laden language. This is my surprised face ). What I don't get is the first vote on KBW. How do you explain that?

Rainbow and Yoshi and Bub are all town until further notice, as well

I'm going to give town points to Desperado for this. I don't want to lock in reads too early, but taking so many potential suspects out of the lynch-pool so early doesn't seem to jive with a scum motivation.

Flay, i don't really understand your explanation on not doing RVS becuz youclearly seem to be fine with attacking people but not RVS, how does you attack can pressurize a person with out voting them? if you want some one to talk..you put pressure them with your vote, no body is going to slip or talk without actual pressure.

And not being in the site for long time doesn't make you a different player. that looks like an apparent excuse...

This post is so weak. No real follow up or vote for flay.

Keyblade is giving me a VI vibe.

I understand your hesitation not to lock in reads but I find that's it a lot easier to townread someone first and change as they exhibit more scum behavior than it is to go the opposite direction. In other words, if you get a scumread early it's going to be difficult for that to ever change, and I honestly think it gets worse the longer the game goes on. All three of you approached the early game in a townie way, so until you do something to change that, you're town.

As for the bolded, pretty much. Which is why we shouldn't really even be considering voting KBW today. Policy lynching is not a successful strategy.

I like Bub and Rainbow for town so far. Well thought through post by Bub, to the point. Rainbow seems to be the most active poster we're going to have this game.
Mr Flay is pretty town too in my opinion since he's pretty in game focused and trying to sift through any of the unrelated stuff like Rainbow has been too.

Elyse, was the vote against YOLO because you were waiting for someone to target a person with a VI read? You weren't overly specific there and seemed to get a lot more than I did out of two words, could you explain it?

I don't think Bub and Rainbow and Flay are playing similarly at all, can you expound on this?

[Desperado]

Well it didn't make any sense for you to vote KBW yourself, and then vote someone for also expressing suspicion on him. My assumption was that you were faking your FOS on KBW in order to coax scum into sheeping you (which you might have done anyway).

Your actual explanation is disappointing. How on earth was he rolefishing? KBW claimed VT on his own. Regardless of your level of experience re: how townies and scum react to a roleclaim, what YOLO did wasn't fishing. That's why I was confused.

[Desperado]

and btw, I'm playing another game too Toadette. my brain isn't fully on this one.

VOTE: Keybladewielder - get in the game, then. Playing multiple games is no excuse not to, you know, play multiple games. Also your attitude sucks, as personal attacks are extremely unlikely to remove votes from you.

Blue Yoshi: I disagree about your ability to direct or stir up anything with those posts. *shrug*

STAHP.

You're giving reasons for why you might not like him, but not reasons for actually voting him. Jumping on the easy target is NOT making you look too good, Flay.

Hey, can you stop coaching? Especially without actually voting anyone? This is the second time you've blatantly told someone that they are being scummy and what to do to fix it. All you're doing is giving potential scum an opportunity to correct the behavior that will get them lynched. Either go be a veteran in a newbie game or wait until the end of the game.

[Desperado]

We don't seem to be communicating with one another very well. I didn't say that your vote on KBW didn't make sense, I said it didn't make sense

in conjunction with

your vote on YOLO. And they still don't, because your argument basically boils down to "He's scum for pointing out what every other player had already seen," which you've already conceded as untenable. So why are you still voting YOLO?

[Desperado]

So what, we have a competition for who can actually be the village idiot? Is it Flay or is it KBW?

Several people have independently suspected Flay based on legitimate arguments. Bubs in #6, myself in #24, Angel in #44, YOLO in #76, KBW in #78, and yourself in #81. That's half the participants all calling YOLO out for scummy play within the first 90 posts. At what point does he go from potential VI to plain-old scum?

[Desperado]

Flay of course that's what I meant. Your last bit seems to intimate that there is some broader plan to your blatantly scummy behavior. Well, I'm all ears.

[Desperado]

@Desperado
Who is post 90 directed to?

UNVOTE: YOLO (I'm taking Rainbow's word for now)
VOTE: jeromus

I'm sick of him repeating things other people say and not doing anything that even seems remotely like scumhunting.

Jeromus. I can see how it was confusing.

[Desperado]

Hey you've made 9 posts since you voluntarily left RVS and still haven't put up a vote. What's up with that?

[Desperado]

What would you call what Jeromus was doing there?

[Desperado]

Unvote: Flay
Vote: Jeromus

Rainbow's town-defense of Flay and his most recent post have eased my scumread on him. It's still there, but if my scumreads were like that water-gun horse race game at the fair, Flay would be the old guy who starts flawlessly but can't do any single activity for more than 5 seconds a time and eventually falls out, while Jeromus would be the 14 year old kid who already has 5 giant teddie bears and only has 50 more cents to spend.

He's probably been the most active player overall yet he's only placed one legitimate vote (on Elyse, who leans town for me right now), his interpretation of scumhunting appears to be identifying scum and then helping them appear more towny without voting them, and there's even something about posting via GIFs that scumtells him to me. In particular, he seems to recognize that he's posting like a dick in #105 when he mentions that "being snarky is bringing the game down," which he followed shortly thereafter with a post entirely composed by a GIF saying "Getting real tired of your shit." Pretty snarky, wouldn't you say?

He also claims in #131 that Elyse's vote on him is wrong because he's "upped the content level...made time for the game" when in his posts there's really no indication of that. Here's all of his activity after Elyse put her vote up:

See, I was actually asking for an explanation, and...That didn't really explain much. Calling that rolefishing is SUCH a stretch.

Actually, screw this - Being snarky is bringing this game down. I am unconvinced that that is appropriate grounds for suspicion. Ignore the whiny teenage undertones of the last post. Keep the core concept.

I just didn't see too much of a reason for it. And that's important.

I'm at work at the moment, I'll get me some mad re-reading when I get home tonight - Until then, why did you initially vote me? Not why it's still there, why initially?

Also, can someone run me through how multiquote actually works? It's been a million years since I got my head around BBcode

I just didn't see too much of a reason for it. And that's important.

Why do I feel like im an IC in this game? There is a reason I dont IC as Dash, dont really have the patience.

Anywho

1) What is your read on Flay? What do you think of the push on him by BB and Desp?
2) What do you think of Bomb and his RVS comment?
3) What do you think of KBW? The votes on him?
4) What is your read on YOLO?

1) Flay is being weird. Inconsistent with what he says and what he does, but everyone has covered this ground before me.

Read again. Also note that I was the FIRST person to post after the mod announced D1. What content was I going to provide/analyze, other than questions? RQS isn't for spamming, either. As already explained, my question was pertinent, both to me and to the game as a whole. How people react to it is also important (to me).

Honestly, that one there sticks out for me. Feeling the need to point out he was the first person to post just seems like he's got too much to prove.

2) I think very little of it. I presume you mean the one about pushing it OUT of the RVS and his lack of doing so? I feel that should be clarified before answering this question.

3) OH MY GOD KBW. I think if he's to be voted for, it's only for a policy lynch and if he's REALLY lynched D1, it's only so that we don't have to talk about him for the rest of the game. He's being loud and unhelpful and I'm just getting VI from the guy. Also, this MAY be the first game where I've known that VI is an acronym, as in, there's actually a word for that, so I MAY use it a little too often

I'd honestly like to hear from him about basically just his thoughts on each player, cause we haven't got much other than "You voted me so I voted you ponies are lame roflolkillme" from him and I'd like to see what his thoughts on the actual game are.

4) Well, he's posted twice, but I'm getting an overall townie vibe from the fellow.

Are you voting KBW because you think he's scum or because you think he's a bad player? I don't see any reasoning for why KBW might be scum in your post so I'd like you to explain your vote.

Talking about explaining votes, Elyse also has some explaining to do. What exactly have you been waiting for, Elyse?

This is a big thing for me.

Now, Imma just make up a 5.

5) I think Elyse is acting mighty peculiar.

I like the aggression in this thread so far.

@ Jeromus
I don't think we're going to get along. Btw, why exactly are you asking for content from other players while you have done nothing in two posts besides saying you don't like 'YOLO'?
Also, Earthbound > Kingdom Hearts.

ill get an avi when your vote on me gets removed, Toadette.

and btw, I never get a scum role, I think the odds are stacked against me. I'm always getting voted because I'm me.

And everyone always regrets voting a VT

.

and btw, I'm playing another game too Toadette. my brain isn't fully on this one.

Wait... what?

I was waiting for someone to do this.
UNVOTE: Kbw
VOTE: YOLO

I do NOT follow you on this one. Also, reading you in ISO is just a wall of pony RP curiosity and you screaming the word "ROLEFISH" a few times.

I think YOLO was just commenting on it, not making some big play. Elyse seems to me to be just throwing aggression against the wall and seeing what sticks.

VOTE: Elyse

Welcome to Hell, Qwints

It's like some convict descendent ADHD or something I don't know.

I...I always thought I was the only one!

Sorry to correct you Qwints, but that's not called Town Leader, it's called "Self-righteous prick". :p I'll cut down on it, I know it just shits people.

Oh, ok. Yeah, I agree. But I don't think that's really town motivated. I think it's more I'll-tell-everyone-what-to-do-so-I-won't-have-to-do-anything-myself motivated.

I think we need to be seated separately so we don't bombard each other with spitballs.

You haven't really said much worth addressing. The main thing you disputed was that you weren't "screaming", which, I must admit, was my bad. Hyperbole is just fun.

Not once did you bring up any other content you've posted. So tell me again, what did you want me to respond to?

Look at that again. From the time Elyse votes you to the time you claim that you shouldn't be suspected because you've made time for the game and upped your content level, your posts consisted of:

Legitimate suspicion, apology for snarkiness, clarification, pledge to conduct a big re-read, question with any easier answer, said re-read post where you don't actually answer any of the questions posed to you, irrelevant comment, irrelevant comment, self-deprecating irrelevant comment, GIF, more snark.

So...where's the content? Your iso is 10x worse than Flay thinks Elyse's is.

[Desperado]

Desperado's definitely town.

Right back at you. Why are you still voting Flay? Surely you see jeromusscum.

[Desperado]

UNVOTE:
I apologize for my inactivity and downright bad play, but from here on out I'm going to do my best to improve that. And of course I'll be more active.
That said:

jeromus

:
As far of the way of reads go, he's done a little but not enough to make it look like he's contributing. Following that, he's made many snarky comments, avoided some questions, and hasn't really had the best play. He's even made a lot of posts with not very much content per. #180 does a good job of encapsulating his play to this point.

Leaning Scum

Mr. Flay

Has played good active play, finding things and trying to help the town a lot. The case Bub is putting on him is basically revolving around the first post that he made, where he said that he hasn't been playing for a while and might be bad. The way I see it it's a perfectly natural post to make, and he has been playing a good game since.

Leaning Town

qwints

Various lurky, short posts, though most have content. The fact that he hasn't made extravagant posts or anything with too much content makes it difficult to get a read on him. Though it could just be he's trying to soar under the radar.

Null

ArcAngel9

Has 6 posts, one of which (#44) is legitimate. It's not a bad post, but it could still use more.

Null-Lurker

Blue Yoshi

Hasn't been around much, and has made very sub-par posts. He thinks he's helping stir up activity, but with the current state of the thread, it's obvious he isn't trying very hard. Maybe he should suck it up and start trying harder.

Null-Lurker

Bomb

Was a productive player with good, content filled posts that were albeit short. He is now replacing out, but unless his replacement does something totally insane then he's one of those that is a pretty good slot.

Null-Town

Bub Bidderskins

A very attacking player who posts a lot of content. Though the style of play that he's using makes it seem like he's done this before, so I don't know whether it's because he's town or if it's just his all-around playstyle of why he's attacking like this. His first attack on Flay just seemed really vague. I'm thinking he's town, but I'm still wary.

Null-Townish

Keybladewielder

I...don't need to say anything about this one. Get an avatar plz.

Town-VI

Elyse

Has one of the higher postcounts with a below-average amount of content still. Acts a little bit rude which doesn't help. This is like a jeromus case, though not as severe.

Town-Leaning Scum

Rainbowdash

All the postcount of jeromus and Elyse, but with a lot of good content. Is a really helpful player and consistently shows good involvement in the game. Definitely the best player.

Town

YOLO

Has been a really lurking player (actually only has 5 posts) and even asked someone else why they were lurking. Only one of his 5 posts were really that useful to look at, and it was just a catch-up post that didn't explain much about him.

Desperado

Currently tunneling jeromus, but is doing it in a towny way. Is really involved in the game and deserves to be called town.

Leaning Town

I don't really like writing posts more than 8 lines because then I stop and do something else, which is why I started writing this post 8 hours ago.
I guess this doesn't speak well for the future. I barely even remember all that is in this post.

This post extremely uninteresting. Dubious categorizations pretty much everywhere (what specifically separates null qwints and null-lurker Yoshi? You even use the word lurker in qwints' blurb. Null-townish and town-leaning scum are equally vague). Only one straight up read, in the form of a love letter to rainbow. Are you suggesting that being the best player is a towntell? I think there are far better (and convincing) ways to establish someone as town.

In other words, I don't think there's really that much to cull from Yoshi's reads. I'm also not sure how accurate we can expect someone's player-by-player to be on D1, so I question the purpose of this post. As someone else said, activity is not a bunch of big, catch-all posts interspersed by inactivity, but constant and fruitful engagement in the town discussion. This does not qualify.

[Desperado]

I definitely do not agree with the L-1 wagon on Jeromus and I am completely surprised Rainbowdash even goes as far as to ask for a claim. Where is the case on Jeromus? I can see the 'few content in lots of posts' argument but that's not nearly enough for a lynch, especially not when deadline is so far away. Someone should unvote Jeromus asap.

Regardless of the fact that "few content in lots of posts" is an extremely watered down version of the case on Jeromus, who are you to tell anyone else what is "enough" for a lynch? Is there some kind of chart that you could share that spells out how many scumtells someone needs to exhibit before we can lynch them? If you're going to just handwave away multiple posts, made by several people different people, independently, on why Jeromus is scum, you're going to need to do better than this.

[Desperado]

@ KBW: Can you tell me specifically what you mean by "town-oriented play"? Sounds a lot to me like you're saying they are playing "too towny," so to speak. And what separates me ("pretty much confirmed town") from Bub and Rainbow?

[Desperado]

Are you suggesting that Jeromusscum wouldn't have known that Qwints had already voted for him and that it was a ruse? And be incapable of forcing a towntell?

The flipside of what you're saying is that if he were scum he would have said something like "hahahahaha thank god you finally hammered, I was getting tired of defending myself" or something, which is patently ridiculous. I saw the post, I analyzed it, and I did not come to the same conclusion that you did. I stand by the case I built earlier, and this third player-by-player basically confirms my opinion that they are totally useless. Can't believe I wanted five days for...that.

[Desperado]

I have no intention of unvoting right now. Jeromus' obsession with lynching for information is troubling--how on earth is "AA hasn't interacted with anyone" a good reason not to lynch them? Taken to it's logical conclusion, all scum have to do is literally not play (seriously check AA's iso--they may as well have v/la'd from the word Go and saved us all the trouble of reading their "contributions" to the game) in order to avoid a D1 lynch.

Here's what I don't get: YOLO was the only person, IIRC, to express any legitimate reservations on a Jeromus lynch prior to the qwints and Rainbow fake hammers, which were incredibly unsubtle. Now we're unvoting due to a series of reactions that could just as easily be forced as genuine? Elyse's switch was particularly abrupt--how do you go from cheerleading a lynch to a hard townread based on one sentence?

I'm just not buying it. If someone presents themselves as a better lynch then I'll consider it, by all means, but until then my vote is staying on Jeromus.

[Desperado]

Dude, you replaced in 5 days ago and have contributed zilch. You've haven't outed a single read, you haven't placed a single vote. The most effort you've put in is to backseat mod and request a prod for YOLO. Get your shit together and start playing or just replace right out.

[Desperado]

Unvote: Jeromus
Vote: ArcAngel

If you can't tell I like doing isos. I prefer looking for individual scum reads over broad player by players--they're more effective overall. Speaking of which, check this out:

Feb. 23:

Having issues with internet..am currently posting through mobile, so will be less active.

Feb. 26:

am here today, will catch up!!!

Feb. 28:

Firstly,

unvote

i have got some pages to catch up for this game.. sorry for being a lousy player, i ll get on to the game in day.. i promise.

March 2:

Waiting for ArcAngel and BlueYoshi to post something with content.

Am here, currently busy in weekends, i will have few reads by tomorrow...

March 4:

Checking in, real post after school

Hello HD, its good to see you here!! I was lost pretty much here. Will be joining you soon.
Hope you're not scum

Slow down Flay, I am jumping in today!!!

March 6:

I'm going to approach this game differently than I usually do, since I'm a bit lacking on the time front.

Why do you replace in if you don't have enough time to play properly? On top of that, the replacement queue tells me this isn't the only game you replaced into. This 'not enough time' excuse for playing differently seems bullshit to me.

Vote: Human Destroyer

What is wrong in asking about review of an on going game? How does that makes anyone scum? Replacement doesn't insist one to read through all the pages, its a choice of a player how they want to put their views in a game. That doesn't make them scum
you reason to vote HD is not fair and very anti-town.

Blocked by the mod. Lame.

Jeromus, how do you not know what sheeping is?

are you seriously fallign for that? He is lying!!!!!

Then they went V/LA (but still had time to show up and defend themselves and OMGUS Rainbow). Anyway, let me recap what AA has done thus far:

- Explicitly stated five times that they will be "jumping in" or giving reads soon, only to never do so
- Greeted HD and then used one of their 14 total posts to vehemently defend him from a single-vote wagon
- Implying that they found Jeromus scummy despite never voting for him.

That's it. The post defending HD was particular jarring--in a sea of barely intelligible promises to start playing soon i promise!!!!!!!'s, they come out of nowhere to defend Human Destroyer for a basically indefensible position, claiming that it is somehow OK for some to replace in and not read the game because "replacing in doesn't require you to read all the pages." Huh?

This doesn't change my feelings on Jeromus either. Notice how AA was cheerleading the Jeromus lynch without actually joining it, and her general lack of participation during basically the entire "should we or shouldn't we lynch Jeromus" period of the game. They're both scum for me at this point.

[Desperado]

HD, now that you know that your page one scumteam is impossible does it change your reads at all?

[Desperado]

Also, reading back, I was acting like a bitch, so my apologies to Desperado and Jeromus and anyone else I offended.

No hard feelings, it's a brand new day

No, it just takes Blue Yoshi out of it.

Difference is Flay was distancing himself from a townflip rather than his buddy.

Fair enough. In the absence of more convincing evidence I don't see myself lynching outside of Flay/Jeromus today. Jeromus' WIFOM reaction to the kill is not helping matters, so

Vote: Jeromus

.

[Desperado]

Not really. I would say my read on AA was more connected with Jeromus than the other way around; clearly this bit of scumhunting didn't work out, but Jeromus wasn't getting lynched yesterday and AA was the next best bet based on what I saw. My case on Jeromus was never dependent on AA being scum their flip isn't really even relevant.

I like Jeromus over you for the same reasons I did yesterday, and your respective reactions to the kill only reinforce that; he's here right at daystart to WIFOM and leave, while you're making pointed inquiries. Both of your posts today read town to me.

[Desperado]

I was on it and I stayed on it for as long as it seemed like Jeromus might get lynched. Because I think he's scum. My case on Jeromus was entirely independent of AA, and was made far before AA was even put forth as a candidate. I wish Jeromus had actually gotten lynched and still don't understand how the fakehammers let to us unvoting him. I'm really not sure what you're implying.

[Desperado]

Obviously I would shoot Jeromus.

I'm curious though, what makes you think you would be the next target?

[Desperado]

Is this KBW's way of asking to be shot? Holy christ @ the last few posts

[Desperado]

That's extremely disappointing.

[Desperado]

All three of us or just a combination or what? That's a pretty vague accusation.

[Desperado]

Desp is actually probably scum, he is scum if KBW is scum. Gut is actually gaining some brain confidence here. Flay sorta scummy too, if YOLO is scum he dies immediately for his comment right after my YOLO vote.

Vote KBW

For the time being as I work stuff out. The D2 wagon on jeromus is just so ugly in light of the flip from him. Really as I said the lack of wanting to get on AA was a towntell only in part shot down by the bizzare kill.

But really, two pairings to watch ultra close for here are Desp-KWB and Flay-YOLO. quints probably rounds out the "good lynches" group. Im happy calling HD and BB town for now.

I've been reading all of your posts today, and there are clearly a lot of machinations going on behind what you write, but I'm just not getting it. How am I scum if KBW is scum? Why are our alignments tethered at all? You've been lightly pushing me as scum all day even though you admitted early on that you can't find the reasons and thus far haven't provided any.

And I didn't see you, or anyone else for that matter, defending the Jeromus wagon today and suggesting that he not get shot, so how does his flip make the wagon look ugly? I didn't see anyone come out against Jeromusscum in any meaningful way, so the blood is on all of our hands.

[Desperado]

"You basically ignored the entire KBW stuff early"

[quote="In post 77If you have a problem with policy-style lynches and that's what you were referring to given YOLO's response then I understand, because at this point that's the only justification for a KBW lynch. Frankly, I'm suspicious of anyone that's voting him right now (oh hey look Flay just voted him with flimsy/policy laden language. This is my surprised face ). What I don't get is the first vote on KBW. How do you explain that?

As for the bolded

(Bub saying KBW is giving him a VI vibe)

, pretty much. Which is why we shouldn't really even be considering voting KBW today. Policy lynching is not a successful strategy.[/quote]

Well it didn't make any sense for you to vote KBW yourself, and then vote someone for also expressing suspicion on him. My assumption was that you were faking your FOS on KBW in order to coax scum into sheeping you (which you might have done anyway).

Your actual explanation is disappointing. How on earth was he rolefishing? KBW claimed VT on his own. Regardless of your level of experience re: how townies and scum react to a roleclaim, what YOLO did wasn't fishing. That's why I was confused.

So what, we have a competition for who can actually be the village idiot? Is it Flay or is it KBW?

Several people have independently suspected Flay based on legitimate arguments. Bubs in #6, myself in #24, Angel in #44, YOLO in #76, KBW in #78, and yourself in #81. That's half the participants all calling YOLO out for scummy play within the first 90 posts. At what point does he go from potential VI to plain-old scum?

I thought my opinion on KBW early was pretty clear; he was the village idiot and policy lynching him for it was the only justification for a vote on him. How much more would I have had to have said on the subject to not "ignore" it?

"and the late game stuff except for a joking shrug of it"

I assume you mean what's happened in the last two pages? I openly stated "is this KBW's way of asking to be shot," implying that I believed he might be scum, for the very same series of posts that you and qwints are now voting him. So how does this mean I'm scum with KBW again?

"When you go overboard on commenting on other VI-type players it sticks out as newer scum who is competent just not knowing how to deal with a VI partner."

Are you referring to #90? In which I was questioning someone else who classified Flay as VI-type play when I was pushing his wagon? I don't see anywhere else where I "go overboard" with talking about VIs.

"KBW in turn ignores you"

He directly responds to me in #s 90/91 and 255/256, the only two times I actually address him personally.

"I also did defend jeromus yesterday given how he stayed off a counterwagon I lobbed to him, and if it wasnt for the fact that BY died pointing to some underlying scum motivation, would have never let him get to where he was today. I still think you are a really good pick for scum though, especially as your response to me saying I disliked the wagon on him was "its everyponys fault"."

Alright, this is just dumb. You never defended Jeromus yesterday. You thought you were hammering him in #278, you still supported a Jeromus lynch even if he flipped town in #287, you were still happy with a Jeromus lynch in #299, and then you voted AA in #302 and then never talk about a Jeromus lynch again. And my response was "it was everyone's fault" because

what you're saying isn't true

. The closest you ever come to defending Jeromus is in #411, where you say you are still "iffy" on Jeromus but just don't think Jeromusscum wouldn't pass up the opportunity to lynch AA. OK, but consider the alternative: Jeromusscum just escaped L-1 and probably isn't getting voted. Why jump at the first ML opportunity (AA) when he's not in any more danger? Jeromusscum was just as likely to defend AA as he was to lynch him.

Bottomline: it's pretty clear to me that your recollection of my interaction with KBW is flawed, so I suggest you re-read and reevaluate your relational tells, because this one is busted.

Personally, I'm struggling here. I did not expect Jeromus to flip town and I have too many townreads, which means one of them is probably wrong. My best read right now is that Flay/KBW are not teammates, but I'm suspicious of Qwints' vote just now and I obviously disagree with the basis of Dash's vote. Given that mistrust, I'm disappointed in myself for dismissing my original read on Flay because of Dash's defense earlier, so I'm going to trust myself here and go this way.

Vote: Mr. Flay

[Desperado]

Vote: Human Destroyer

Hmmm....? That's all it takes for you to put someone on L-1?

[Desperado]

Yes

I'm obviously fine with him being put at L-1

If I wasn't, I wouldn't have done it

Why are you so jumpy about it? What are you afraid of?

What a complete non-answer.

I'm not jumpy, and I'm not afraid of anything, other than you latching on to a clearly dubious wagon that I've already debunked without offering a single thought of your own. Dash, Qwints, and HD--there's your scum team. Here, I'll show you:

Unvote: Human Destroyer
Vote: KBW

[Desperado]

My stance on KBW has been clear from day one. You and qwints both sheep Dash's bullshit Desp/KBW scumteam without a word of your own, and then Dash calls for KBW to die now. When KBW flips town, what are you going to do?

[Desperado]

Vote: Qwints

Holy shit this guy's iso is awful. Has done literally nothing but join every wagon that had any steam at all. Repeatedly asks other players for more content and more reads without every providing any content of his own or telling us any of his reads. Now trying to quick-lynch me without talking. The other two were absolutely on the KBW wagon yesterday, but I've since rethought my assertion at the end of yesterday--I was caught up in the moment w/r/t HD, and during my overnight re-read I'm back on the Flayscum train.

Flay, Dash, Qwints--there's your scumteam.

[Desperado]

Ok, we're at Lylo if there's 3 scum, but we've also got the easiest lynch ever after yesterday's bizarre hammer.

Is anyone opposed to lynching Desparado?

This is also one of those days where the usual rules don't apply. Given that Desperado is obv-scum, I think we're better off lynching him while keeping relatively quiet. That forces scum to take another shot without being able to adjust to our reads. Thus I would like everyone to simply post yay-nay on a Desparado quick lynch before we do anything else.

I'm for it.

This is literally the most words you've strung together at one time all game. How you feel like you're in a position to dictate the terms of the day's proceedings--especially in such an anti-town manner as a quicklynch on LYLO--is a fucking mystery.

I was very clear about what I was doing yesterday--I had townread KBW very early on, and we all know that he was going to get lynched yesterday whether it happened when I did it or a week later. The salient point is that I'm not at all "obv-scum" and you're going to have to do a hell of a lot better than this if you plan on leading anything today.

[Desperado]

Here's the bottomline: Qwints and I did all of the same things. We both voted Jeromus d1 and when that didn't pan out, we both voted AA. We both voted Jeromus again d2 and supported him shooting Elyse. And we both voted KBW yesterday. The only difference is that I supplied logic and my personal motivation for each of these actions, while he posted things like...

content-free posting it is indeed. I ascribed too much credit to trying to generate useful play.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jeromus

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ArcAngel9

I fake hammered first,and the mod noticed before anyone else did (about 30 minutes later).

VOTE: jeromus plz die now

Not falling for it qwints... though I nearly locked the thread because of you.

About 3 hours later rainbowash did the same thing which Jeromus apparently reacted to with "go town".

This doesn't matter cause AA is now obv scum.

VOTE: Jeromus Blue Yoshi only seemed suspicious of Jeromus and the reaction seems faked.

Blue Yoshi's other scum read:

I don't know if I'm the only one who is seeing this, but Key seems really anxious to pull this lynch through. To the point where it doesn't seem like horrible noobishness with a touch of VI. It legitimately seems scummy.

Spoiler: KBW's impossibly short memory

Flay, why are you voting me?

KBW, last page:

Looking at Blue Yoshi's ISO, I'm not seeing any Power Role tells to speak of, and he really only seems to strongly suspect two people: KBW and jeromus. Of the two I can only see KBW killing him for it. Pair that with the lack of posting today so far (while being active on the site),and you end up with VOTE: Keybladewielder.

RBD doesn't your YOLOvote require jeromus to be scumbuddies with him, though? I'm not following but it may be the lack of commas. Also I don't like the company being kept on the jeromuswagon.

Hold it. How does that equal a scumtell. A) I had nothing to say. B) Wouldn't I I've killed him then if what you say is true?

Who died last night? I didn't check. I didn't shoot anyone, Flay.

In fact your pushing this makes me think you are the shooter.

VOTE: Keybladewielder

Desp is obv-scum now.

Qwints is the dictionary definition of "bare-minimum." There's hardly any insight into anything he does; when he does give a reason, it's almost always surface-level analysis and a reiteration of a point made by someone else first.

Him attempting to start a quick-lynch on me because I'm "obv-scum" when our track record in the game is identical is the rotten cherry on top of the shit sundae that is his gameplay. I suggest you lynch him.

[Desperado]

I am a VT.

[Desperado]

I veto massclaim. RBD:

Yes/no to desparado lynch.

Why do you veto a mass claim in a LYLO situation?

[Desperado]

Ooookay, now having read this page, qwints are you smoking shit? Everybody calm the fuck down, snap votes is how we got here.

Desperado, unvote NOW. And then explain how you know we're in LyLo (506)?

I don't know, I'm speculating and operating under that assumption. With a 12 player start it was likely either 9-3 or 9-2-1...in either case we don't have another ml available to us.

And I'm not unvoting scum, especially when I have a greater than 50% chance of being correct with Elyse still alive and especially especially given qwints' actions to start the day.

[Desperado]

Elyse claimed day vig and then shot someone. If he is agreed to be clear town then that leaves 3 scum in dash, qwints, yolo, hd, and you. 3/5 means fmpov I have a 60% chance of being correct right now, without even considering qwints' behavior.

And if there is no possibility for an independent role in this setup then I am comfortable saying it is lylo right now. How would a 10v2 start with at least a day vig be balanced? It wouldn't, and I don't really are any point in questioning it when the only downside to me being wrong is we get an unexpected ML.

Unvote: qwints

[Desperado]

If you thought I was obv-scum yesterday, you used your investigation on the most critical night on me...because why exactly?

Either this is the worlds worst reaction test or qwints is about to get cc'd, because that report is bullshit.

[Desperado]

hahahaha yeah because that's even close to what I said. You called me obv-scum yesterday, before the death scene, and have spent all day attempting to get me quick-lynched without revealing yourself, based entirely on my actions yesterday. So I'll ask again, if you were certain I was scum before last night, why did you waste your investigation on me when you could have found out something new about someone else?

[Desperado]

So you just aren't going to answer the question?

[Desperado]

I am here, present, and prepared to be lynched. Not much I can do about a cop investigation.

[Desperado]

Vote: Desperado

[Desperado]

Complaining about how unbalanced it was doesn't sit well with me. Setting aside the fact that multiple people had to agree that it was for it to even get approved, your dayvig shot town, you lynched town 3/4 times, and the framer ended up being irrelevant.

Perhaps if you all were more focused on scumhunting instead of just lynching weak players and cop guilties then you might have had a better chance of winning.

[Desperado]

Then maybe you should shape up your fellow reviewers, because they obviously don't agree with your take here or we wouldn't have played the game, right?

[Desperado]

Then maybe you should shape up your fellow reviewers, because they obviously don't agree with your take here or we wouldn't have played the game, right?

We obviously dont agree on everything and there are some setups that get through that dont quite work from time to time. This one just feels much more slanted one way than the other, kinda feel like there was some discussion regarding "worst case for scum" and that made it too unbalanced. Limited doc or BG would have been perfect here.

@Elyse - Thing I was most annoyed about was that I never got a chance to start posting even though I said that I wouldnt have much time until at least Thursday. Really as confirmed town though holding your vote is usually better because my basic plan was to basically be able to force it to either me/HD or YOLO/Flay where I knew what the solution was and could make the right arguements.

Yeah, I see where you're coming from. But I would also argue that what actually happened ended up being near best-case scenario for scum (only thing better is a qwints kill n2 over Bub--that'd have been autowin) and that's kind of biasing your opinion. But a limited shot Doc absolutely would have made sense, I agree.

[Desperado]

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/QXixWuBKv9h

My thought on Yoshi/FourTrouble is that his slot didn't really participate in yesterday's proceedings. The town is all over the place right now, and his death would a) make the least sense from a variety of perspectives and b) give the town the least amount of information. Like, if we kill Dash or Jeromus then the town learns something; if we kill Yoshi, they won't know what the fuck

Town proceeded to shoot Jeromus and lynch KBW. I think it was the right choice.

[Desperado]

Nah I'm pretty happy with the outcome