[M] Newbie 1440: Maestro's Manic Mafia - DAY 3

[Naio]

VOTE: The Acting MethodVOTE:

Mostly because he used TD;LR instead of TL;DR

TL;DR = "too long, didnt read". "TD;LR" = ????

Anyway i'll answer:
1. What time zone are you in?
Eastern US
2. How often do you expect to be on and posting?
~1-2 times per day
3. How many games have you played in?
1st online, though i've been watching a stream esportsmafia that they do each week which is why i'm here
4. What is your opinion on Lynch all Lurkers/Liars?
in a long game like this i wouldnt mind lynching lurkers, but lynching liars is a no-brainer
5. What side do you prefer playing as?
i enjoy town with a special role, but if this was a real-life game i'd say mafia.

[Naio]

VOTE: The Acting MethodVOTE:

I fail at life. adding vote for real this time.


VOTE: The Acting Method

[Naio]

VOTE: The Acting MethodVOTE:

I fail at lifex2. adding vote for real this time.


VOTE: The Acting Method

[Naio]

OK i give up. can someone tell me how to vote?

[Naio]

VOTE: Peabody

^
Also a serious vote. (now that i know how to vote)

But lets be honest, in 2 weeks no one is even going to remember what was on the first page of this thread. I read Acting Method's post about this being a random voting stage to try and get some ideas about people, and i think what i am about to write below is one of the first things that have come out.

I havent played before (only watched streams of people playing) and I've picked up some things from that, such as when someone storms in like Peabody is, being very aggressive, more times than not they are mafia. The reason being that they try to blast it in people's faces that they are town by trying to accuse whomever they can, with the long-game being that they "lead" the town as a "confirmed town".

I also dont like that you are immediately combative with everyone calling you out on things. Seems scummy to me. And you're sooo sooo sooo defensive right away, i feel like a town wouldnt play that way.

[Naio]

My bad for all the double-posts guys. Little tipsy at the moment and didnt think my entire post through. I also don't like that Peabody has posted a handful of times and is calling people out for crappy responses to the question, but hasn't yet answered himself.

[Naio]

Ok having now read to this point, the reactions to Peabody from some and I would say that they have merit, but not a lot.

@ Naio

30 which is it Naio, is he scum and worthy of a vote or not, because it seems to contradict itself. you state it is a serious vote, but then seem to back out of it with the line regarding remembering page one in two weeks time.

Not backing out of anything, my comment about everyone forgetting was a separate topic.

I haven't changed my vote, Peabody has been reading very scum to me since the beginning. lots of defending himself very aggressively after what appears to be his plan backfiring by trying to call me out.

[Naio]

3. This is my first game played.

I'm an odd one and I do things in very unorthodox methods. (surprisingly it's a scum tell in all my games, especially as town)

it IS my first game but wtf?

VOTE: theslimer3

[Naio]

@Naio: I'm not sure if you've just voted me because of my joking response to TAM's RVS or because you're a new player. Elaborate please.

If it was a joke, it was a crappy joke. Flat-out lying isn't that funny really?

[Naio]

Splashmaster hasn't posted in 5 days, can we get a giant stick on him? And Naio also has been MIA.

Not MIA just watching, i'm generally a more quiet player and try to give a smaller number of fulfilling/thoughtful posts, than a large number of spammy posts.

I am still happy with my vote on you for the moment. I can see it from the point of "town just trying to not get lynched" but i feel like you're trying really hard. And that there have been small, but noticable people throwing up a defense for you leads me to believe one of them might be scum as well.

That's my current read on you, but if you have other questions i'm happy to answer them

[Naio]

To be honest i dont think enough people are going to log in to change votes. i guess it's going where it's going.

That being said (noob question), is there any way other than the last mod post to get a summary of all the votes?

[Naio]

Well i cant believe we lucked into a scum lynch.

That being said, i'm new but if i look at this, it means we either have a tracker or a cop. and it means the other mafia is not any special role, either way. So basically, as soon as tracker/cop finds the 2nd mafia, you reveal yourself and call them out.

Then of course we have the chance that aphix was the tracker/cop, and we're fucked.
or we have the chance that we mis-lynch the tracker/cop, or they get killed one of the nights.

but either way we are in a really good spot here.

[Naio]

VOTE: Naio

thats one of the scummiest things i've seen. i present logic and you vote without an explanation?

[Naio]

I'm not going to lie, i dont understand most of what you wrote due to the slang you used. That being said, i just looked at the grid again and yeah i missed the goon in C1. so basically my entire post above doesnt make any sense because it's possible we dont have a cop/tracker.

you make a lot of good points, only 2 of which i disagree with.

1) i dont see why a mafia would jump on a bandwagon while announcing that he's jumping on the bandwagon. if i was mafia trying to jump on the bandwagon, i'd bring a point to why i was voting rather than explicitly stating i was bandwagoning, and then in the future i could say "see i voted for them with this reason!" which is a lot stronger than saying "i voted for them because i was jumping on the wagon!"

2) to me, voting someone without explanation after they made (what i thought) was a legitimate strategy, is still scummy. in fact if YOU are mafia, you would know i'm town, and you're trying to jump on my noob mistakes and get an easy lynch. If i look at it from a 30,000 feet view, i feel it's more likely you are trying to trap a new player and get an easy lynch, than try to draw out a suspected mafia.

so in conclusion, i'm leaning towards you being mafia, not enough to vote for it, but enough to ask you to explain the accusations you made and why they make MORE sense from a town standpoint than from a scum standpoint. after you respond i'm happy to give you my view again.

[Naio]

Naio,

Do you mind explaining how you went from a scum read on me to a scum read on slimer? I see that you originally voted him for inconsistency concerning how many games he played. Is that the sole reason you voted him? What about Slimer's posting has solidified your scum reading of him?

Hi guys, i'd like you all to take a minute and read over my past posts. I think everyone is confusing "noob" for "stupid".

I made 2 mistakes. I made a "noob" mistake by voting after the deadline had passed, which i did not realize. I made a 2nd "noob" mistake not realizing that there were 2 cells with "mafia goon" in them, meaning that my theory about cop/tracker was just bollocks. (okay mistake 3 maybe when it took me 4 posts to figure out how to vote for someone)

You might be used to people playing who just make "stupid" mistakes - which is much different than what i've done so far. I'm sure there are plenty of new players out there who aren't good at positioning themselves to move people's opinions of them, but i feel like the current accusations on me are all at the behest of slimer, who is leading the charge. I dont even think i'm first on the chopping block for people, but i feel that slimer is throwing out accusations as much as possible and trying to get one to stick.

Then, to answer this question:

Naio,

Do you mind explaining how you went from a scum read on me to a scum read on slimer? I see that you originally voted him for inconsistency concerning how many games he played. Is that the sole reason you voted him? What about Slimer's posting has solidified your scum reading of him?

You're correct, my original scum on slimer was that i thought i caught him in a lie when he said it was his first game, and then he said he played all the time. I didn't realize it was just a really poor attempt at being funny. Once that was cleared up I no longer had a scummy read on him (which is why i changed my vote, just didn't realize it was past the deadline) until he started calling me out here on Day 2. My scum read on him at this point is that he's trying to throw what he THINKS are "noob mistakes" under the bus, but he is confusing 'noob' with 'stupid' - as i explained above.

so, with my 2 opinions above, both pointing me to a single person:

VOTE: theslimer3

[Naio]

sorry guys, i didnt mean to double-quote there. there should only be a quote for my 2nd paragraph.

[Naio]

It's not your tracker/cop theory that is why I at least voted you first. It's because you said that when the person you were talking about was A: Dead and B: Had flipped vanilla town.

Sorry if I was not clear, and reading back i see it wasnt very clear. that entire post was based on a misunderstanding, 1) there are two "goon" slots. 2) that you actually see the role of the person that dies

as i said in my original post, i'm used to live-action mafia, not forum, it's much different rules.

[Naio]

I would really enjoy looking at that if you have a copy of the footage. I would love a camp meeting grounds for a huge mafia game like that

(this is super off topic)
i think i wrote in an earlier post i've never played, only watched live streams. this is the channel i watch, they play games every monday and wednesday evenings. http://www.twitch.tv/koibu

after watching them for a while is why i ended up googling and finding this forum

[Naio]

2) that you actually see the role of the person that dies

as i said in my original post, i'm used to live-action mafia, not forum, it's much different rules.

But you do actually get shown the role of the person that died. Unless you mispoke and meant to say "that you don't get shown the role of the person that dies." Aphix flipped vanilla town. Most Mafia games done on forums will show a flip after a death.

to answer your question from post 235, what i said in post 232 was that i didnt realize that you get this:

aphix has been Killed Night 1. They were a

Vanilla Townie

.

when someone dies. i didnt see that when i wrote my post about the possibility of aphix being a tracker/cop.

i dont know what you mean by "flipped" i'm guessing it means showing the role when someone dies? in that case, i didnt know that anyone was ever "flipped"

are we all on the same page now?


also, i'm keeping my vote. SLIMER - i haven't seen you talk about yourself yet, you're still slinging accusations around which is what i called you out for in the first place.

[Naio]

@Naio: You know what game we're playing, right?

Yes, and as other people have pointed out, you keep refusing to defend yourself or talk about your actions. even in your post, yet again, it's either calling someone else's accusation crappy, or slinging an accusation at someone else for something they said.

QUESTION: what do you have to say about all the accusations about yourself?
QUESTION: why is your approach of accusing people and picking apart other people's accusations on yourself a town play, and not a scum play?

[Naio]

But you don't have a single scummy read on me other than the mistake I made, which i explained above. again back to the "noob" vs "stupid" debate. Not understanding the nuances of the rules/process does not equal scum. it equals noob, which i'm happy to call myself. even if i were mafia, i dont see how the strategy of saying "aphix could have had a role" is a mafia strategy either, EVEN IF it wasnt posted right above me.

that being said - when we break down your defense, its essentially "yeah i know i look scummy but it's just to let me see the scum" - that's pretty weak, in my opinion.

in my opinion, i'm your target because i'm talking out against you the most.

[Naio]

Or die trying to get my target lynched the next day, which is you at the moment.

the only thing i've let go is the only thing you think i'm attacking you for.

so, i'm your target "at the moment"

HOWEVER, you've let go the 1 reason you had for voting me in the first place, so you have no reasons left, yet i'm still your target.

you haven't rescinded your vote and are still actively trying to find reasons to accuse me. none of what you are saying makes any one coherent string of thoughts or motivation.

you are supposed to be an experienced player, but i don't see what you're trying to do. i try to think it out - on the assumption you are town, you are playing really really poorly, maybe it's a martyr play where you'll go down with the ship and help uncover another mafia? on the assumption you are mafia, maybe despite your ~20 games, you're just really inexperienced at being mafia?

Anyway, we haven't heard from a whole bunch of people in a while, i'd like to see someone other than me, slimer, TAM, and Scot give us some of their reads.

[Naio]

Naio may speak for you if you need to ask anything else.

This is stupid and unhelpful. even if you are town (which i highly doubt at this point), you are actively hurting town, which is extremely worthy of a lynch.

i already voted for you i'm just posting it again to make myself feel better

VOTE: thesmiler3

[Naio]

Smudger - I'm voting TAM over Slimer because I think that his reasoning for unvoting Naio was based on your soft claim. But now I find out it wasn't. TAM unvoted Naio because Naio seemingly answered or clarified the question about him. Which Naio didn't even answer the question! It looks like TAM was trying to back off of the wagon of a townie and be pegged as scum the next day.

I'm not defending TAM, but i will mention that i did answer all his questions (unless i missed one) and from the way i read the chain of events, he was satisfied with my answers after a bunch of back and forth.

[Naio]

Just an update on my reads:

I have strong scum reads on TAM and slimer. I'd be happy with a lynch on either tonight.

TAM because i think he's trying a little too hard to confuse everyone with very long-winded posts. I also don't like the statements that start with "i've said since the beginning" - thats a lazy way to try to build other's confidence in what you're saying. I also REALLY dislike that he didnt pick up on the soft claim. He soft claimed multiple posts in a row, i think it's ridiculous you missed it, i saw it the first time he said it. I could see you pushing the issue as a way to have him hard claim as a reason to lynch him.

Slimer for no new reasons than i've said in the past. I actually think he is leaning more town with his most recent posts, but for me it's too little too late. I'm already too convinced that he's scum that i can easily see him using his experience to look town right now.

And the rest - all neutral except smudger who i do believe is cop.

[Naio]

sorry i didnt mean to quote all that. I hit multi-quote then typed in the quick-reply, and it put everything in there without me realizing.

i guess theres a good reason the "preview" button exists...

Fixed

-M

[Naio]

As to how I missed the soft claim... Well, when you consider that most of my posts were focused on showing why I felt your actions scummy/why your actions could be seen as scummy/responding to your responses. Do you really think I was paying close enough attention to smudger other than to notice that he was claiming you as town?

This is my first time playing Mafia. I saw the soft claim on his first post. I have no idea, as an experienced player, you don't pick up on this claim. It's SO ABSOLUTELY ABSURD that you (and slimer) missed this, I don't even know what to say.

its a noob mistake.. that is my current stance, I can assure you that stance is correct.

I think it is very obvious to you what I am saying and you are playing the dumb card deliberately.

My argument does not suck and if the so called experienced players cannot see what I am saying hen they are blind. I will say no more than This Naio is not scum and I and the rest of town should trust him explicitly

obviously my cryptic hint was missed

Naio is town, noob town who is learning the game, he is 150% TOWN.

He has not claimed Town, I have claimed him Town.

Both you and TAM are experienced players and yet you are deliberately ignoring what I have said from the beginning of D2 with regards to what I know and why I know it. If you had been town both of you, or at least one of you, the one who was town, would have steered us away from this and seen what was being said. But no, you both continue to play dumb, and even with Tams removal of his vote on Naio he continues to walk blindly down the road by asking why I believe Naio's claim?!

Naio does not have to defend himself to anyone.

Naio, you are town I can confirm you are town, you do not have to continue to explain yourself to Slimer or TAM at this point.

there is a very strong reason why I know he is town, do you have any idea how dumb you are looking right now?

In my opinion, I could see you missing a comment or 2. But Smudger soft claimed, then commented on his soft claim, then said everyone missed his soft claim, then soft claimed again, then again, then 3 more times, then FINALLY said he was cop.

I mean, cmon.

[Naio]

As to how I missed the soft claim... Well, when you consider that most of my posts were focused on showing why I felt your actions scummy/why your actions could be seen as scummy/responding to your responses. Do you really think I was paying close enough attention to smudger other than to notice that he was claiming you as town?

Trust me, I can't see soft claims for beans. The problem with playing a game as IC is that I try to teach and play the game at the same time. This leads to having a slightly scummy sounding tone to my posts, ESPECIALLY because I take every opportunity to try and point something out or teach something.

I PURPOSELY DIDN'T CALL HIM OUT ON HIS SOFTCLAIM BECAUSE I WAS LEGITIMATELY CONCERNED ABOUT HIM BEING KILLED IF HE WAS NOTICED.

First you say you missed the soft claim. and made an excuse about WHY you missed the soft claim.

Then i called you out on it, and you come up with a different excuse.

Why would you make that excuse about "not ever noticing soft claims" if there was a much better reason?

VOTE: The Acting Method

[Naio]

VOTE: Atlasblade

[Naio]

VOTE: Atlasblade

Reason?

Your actions seems scummy.

You started being pretty quiet and non-agressive. Now that cop is gone, you seem more agressive like you're trying to push the game along.

You've had almost as many posts today, as you've had in the past 3 weeks.

Also, is this an alt account? You seem to know a good number of acronyms and playstyles for playing 1 game in 2012 and this being your 2nd game.

[Naio]

question for each player remaining

As i am the only confirmed town this is likely my last day, so before the day ends i'll give all my reads, but until then i'd like everyone to respond to the following 2 questions:

1) What pro-town things have you done/said so far
2) What pro-scum things have you done/said so far


Brief answers are fine (2-3 sentences each) but please put some thought into it. I want to have some structure around this day rather than the clusterf&$% that was yesterday.

MOD:

could you please do vote counts more frequently? Honestly, I didn't realize TAM was L-1 because i didn't read the previous posts carefully enough where someone mentioned it, and we didnt get a vote count for all of day2.

[Naio]

Note to self (and all listening): if Splash flips scum, watch scot.

Reading through old posts, peabody can you explain why you said that back in post 24 (if you remember)?

Thanks.

[Naio]

Scot could you please answer the question as well?

And i'm also against a quick-lynch. i want this to take as much of the remaining days as possible.

[Naio]

Prod? I've only been idle a day

I've asked my question, waiting on scot to respond to it. then i'm going to give everyone my reads and we'll go from there.

[Naio]

UNVOTE: atlasblade
note: the unvote is NOT because i think atlasblade is less scummy, it's because i want to prevent a quick lynch if i'm not paying close enough attention.

In alphabetical order:

Atlasblade
Small lean scum, except he did vote for splash D1. that could be attributed to the fact that everyone was on top of him, though and he was just bandwagoning. he could just be a newbie town because he has been lurking quite a bit

Peabody
Medium lean town. Called out splash very early in the game. scummy things (if you care to explain them) is that he was having a bit of a spat with aphix, but thats weak at a minimum.

scotpgot
medium lean scum. defended splash at the beginning of the game.

slimer
Medium lean scum. dont like many things about his playstyle, or that he made smudger hard claim. seems to sling accusations which i've gone into expansive details in previous posts.

so peabody, i guess this puts you in my town circle. i'm happy with a vote on slimer or scot at this point. thoughts?

[Naio]

If i'm not mistaken, the only thing you have on me about being scum is that i'm a difficult player.
Right?

Seriously, dude? I've listed tons of reasons. And yes, you ARE super frustrating to play with. I write in my message that "nothing other than what i've said in the past" and you try to disarm that by saying there was only one reason. Here, i've done the work for you, ALL of my comments below still apply.

@Naio: You know what game we're playing, right?

Yes, and as other people have pointed out, you keep refusing to defend yourself or talk about your actions. even in your post, yet again, it's either calling someone else's accusation crappy, or slinging an accusation at someone else for something they said.

QUESTION: what do you have to say about all the accusations about yourself?
QUESTION: why is your approach of accusing people and picking apart other people's accusations on yourself a town play, and not a scum play?

But you don't have a single scummy read on me other than the mistake I made, which i explained above. again back to the "noob" vs "stupid" debate. Not understanding the nuances of the rules/process does not equal scum. it equals noob, which i'm happy to call myself. even if i were mafia, i dont see how the strategy of saying "aphix could have had a role" is a mafia strategy either, EVEN IF it wasnt posted right above me.

that being said - when we break down your defense, its essentially "yeah i know i look scummy but it's just to let me see the scum" - that's pretty weak, in my opinion.

in my opinion, i'm your target because i'm talking out against you the most.

Or die trying to get my target lynched the next day, which is you at the moment.

the only thing i've let go is the only thing you think i'm attacking you for.

so, i'm your target "at the moment"

HOWEVER, you've let go the 1 reason you had for voting me in the first place, so you have no reasons left, yet i'm still your target.

you haven't rescinded your vote and are still actively trying to find reasons to accuse me. none of what you are saying makes any one coherent string of thoughts or motivation.

you are supposed to be an experienced player, but i don't see what you're trying to do. i try to think it out - on the assumption you are town, you are playing really really poorly, maybe it's a martyr play where you'll go down with the ship and help uncover another mafia? on the assumption you are mafia, maybe despite your ~20 games, you're just really inexperienced at being mafia?

Anyway, we haven't heard from a whole bunch of people in a while, i'd like to see someone other than me, slimer, TAM, and Scot give us some of their reads.

Naio may speak for you if you need to ask anything else.

This is stupid and unhelpful. even if you are town (which i highly doubt at this point), you are actively hurting town, which is extremely worthy of a lynch.

i already voted for you i'm just posting it again to make myself feel better

VOTE: thesmiler3

Just an update on my reads:

I have strong scum reads on TAM and slimer. I'd be happy with a lynch on either tonight.

TAM because i think he's trying a little too hard to confuse everyone with very long-winded posts. I also don't like the statements that start with "i've said since the beginning" - thats a lazy way to try to build other's confidence in what you're saying. I also REALLY dislike that he didnt pick up on the soft claim. He soft claimed multiple posts in a row, i think it's ridiculous you missed it, i saw it the first time he said it. I could see you pushing the issue as a way to have him hard claim as a reason to lynch him.

Slimer for no new reasons than i've said in the past. I actually think he is leaning more town with his most recent posts, but for me it's too little too late. I'm already too convinced that he's scum that i can easily see him using his experience to look town right now.

And the rest - all neutral except smudger who i do believe is cop.

[Naio]

Guys why is it so absolutely slow. i feel like i'm the only one posting

VOTE: theslimer3

i realize this puts you at L-1, but atlas is just a total lurker and says basically nothing, so even though i'm leaning scum on him, he posts so absolutely infrequently he's basically cheating if he really is scum.

If slimer gets lynched, and i die tonight - my vote for tomorrow would have been atlasblade

[Naio]

VOTE: scotpgot

3 people are talking, this game is getting stupid. we cant just lynch lurkers because thats basically shooting in the dark. we havent heard from scot or atlasblade in many days.

[Naio]

Guys i'm going to be out of town for the rest of the day today, and thursday/friday for the holiday. I'll be back saturday evening and post then.

Though, by the way we've been going, there wont be any posts to read anyway...

[Naio]

order of scummiest to least for me right now:

slimer
atlas
scot
peabody

i'd be happy with pushing a slimer or atlas vote today. i'm back to slimer unless someone has a solid argument for someone else.

VOTE: slimer

[Naio]

bye guys, good game and good luck!

[Naio]

wow, haha nice. i had a sinking feeling in my gut that he was scum and we got punked. ah well.

[Naio]

Multiple people seemed to write me off early as town, and I think that's partially what won me the game.

yeah i flat-out called you the 1 and only person in my town circle. that probably didnt help.