NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[Bert]

I'm not aware of such a game, but I do feel like there's a meta-trajectory that will eventually result in such a game.

I'll look up her games later tonight and see if I can find it. My memory may be failing me though, but IIRC it was in July-ish. Maybe early Aug.

[DOMO]

vote casso

Please lynch the shit out of sakura tomorrow.

Oh? I thought you wanted to speedlynch me today?

Why are you quoting me and making pointless comments? There's a page of people pointing the finger at you, but instead of wandering what motives might inspire such comments, you focus on conftown being indecisive. This is pure fluff at a time you would be better served trying responding to people's concerns.

[Casso the King of Seals]

I agree. I don't think this is the game.

[Sakura Hana]

I thought that I said getting lynched is a win:win situation for me?

[DOMO]

I thought that I said getting lynched is a win:win situation for me?

Why? Are you that sure casso is town that you're willing to go down instead of him?

[Sakura Hana]

Why? Are you that sure casso is town that you're willing to go down instead of him?

That, plus the fact that Nacho's a much better scumhunter than me.

[DOMO]

But surely you're more certain about your towniness than casso's? It makes no sense to me at all. Why play if your strategy is to die to keep stronger players alive?

[Bert]

OK I was wrong. It was Duck Duck Goose Open 510 that I kept up with very casually where Sakura was scum in July. I'm an idiot and mixed up self-hammer tendencies (which she does as scum - self-vote) with threatening to replace out.

Don't mind me. Yeah, never mind Nacho.

[Bert]

Do you think there's enough to get SAD down today

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Yes.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

desp started off tyring to buddy sakura. That then collapsed into a scumread. That feels reasonably town motivated. Not pushing for #1 scumread isn't in its own right a scum tell, that then comes down to meta. I've played desp once and we was more aggressive. I don't see him calling those who scumreading him an idiot, although he might have. I found him to be quite rude in the face of critisism in oz, where I consider him to have been sort of scum. Here he just seems dismissive.

I'm leaning town with desp, but my meta with him is very limited and complicated due to the nature of our last game.

pedit - Do you agree or not that this is not the same desp we saw in oz?

who fucking cares what i looked like in oz? i was in that game for one day and it wasn't even mafia

please click my username and find some actual games if you're going to try and meta me

This is not scum.

What about what he said can't come from scum

[DOMO]

What about what he said can't come from scum

For someone who loves commas so much, this is poor use of language!

What motivation is there for scumdesp to ridicule the townread he's getting from the closest we have to conftown?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

SAD

I still don't understand why your read on my is sketchy as fuck.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

For someone who loves commas so much, this is poor use of language!

My sig is supposed to be ironic.

What motivation is there for scumdesp to ridicule the townread he's getting from the closest we have to conftown?

?

I can actually remember a few times where I have done the same exact thing as scum.

[DOMO]

My sig is supposed to be ironic.

I think that would be more obvious if you didn't use commas.

I can actually remember a few times where I have done the same exact thing as scum.

Show me.

[MafiaSSK]

Anddd that's my last prod.

You know who we should flashwagon? Bert. Acting confused yet still posting in this game? It's easier than that.

Vote: Bert

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I can actually remember a few times where I have done the same exact thing as scum.

Show me.

I was more going on the basis of "trust me". In fact I can remember vividly me doing this on another site (well it was kinda shortly before I was lynched but that's not the point).

I'm saying it's not hard for scum to question townreads on them in an attempt to look town.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Now that I actually read what you wrote, what you say doesn't even make it sound like you're giving him a townread based on "oz"

I found him to be quite rude in the face of critisism in oz, where I consider him to have been sort of scum.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Anddd that's my last prod.

You know who we should flashwagon? Bert. Acting confused yet still posting in this game? It's easier than that.

Vote: Bert

You're kinda late on the double-bus thing you seem to have going on.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Can you link those scumgames where Sakura gave up and self-voted? I think I might be able to do a compare and contrast with her towngames to see if there are underlying motivations that can be spotted.

Here are a few games, scum and town.

As town: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5222069 This was a self-hammer

As scum not faking it (I think) - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5154079 This was L-1

This game is a twofer: As scum faking it (I think) http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5088017. As scum in the same game self-hammering: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5103138

As town: this one seemed mostly frustration. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p5161695 and this one looked like pure fatalism. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5215726


As town, to avoid a no lynch at deadline: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5474281

As scum, self-hammer: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5505567

As town, over a supposed scumslip: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5266921

So, I've had a chance to look through all this and I am actually surprised you are still considering that Sakura could be scum. Her intent and motivation has always looked different as both affiliations.

I found the first self-hammer as town to be out a rather misguided sense that town will look into her reads when they see her flip.

The second town one was done hoping to get Wisdom to shut up with the self hammer being out of sheer frustration and anger at the town. That is what feels most similar to here.

The third town game, the deadline self-hammer was accompanied by a reads list. This was probably the most productive self-vote since she gave her thoughts and hammered in a calculated way to avoid a no lynch.

The last town game showed a sense of giving up and wanting out of the game.

Comparing with her scum games:

The first one is a bet meant to create scum theater with her scumbuddy Generic possibly. It carried a threatening tone.

The second one was an implicit threat to you saying that you should be lynched the next day upon her townflip, possibly meant to create doubt.

Both scum self-hammers seemed to be because she didn't think she would survive.

Overall, I am seeing that Sakura self-votes as town when she gets frustrated with everyone and generally doesn't try to wiggle her way out of trouble. As scum on the other hand, her self-votes (minus the self hammers) are more manipulative meant to subtly threaten, cast doubt and cause people to feel pity. As scum, she seems to be expecting a response whereas as town, she merely expects to get lynched and get out of the game.

In this game, he ragequit while being flashwagoned at deadline seems overwhelmingly of the town variety of getting frustrated and wanting to give up. I expect Sakura-scum in the same situation would have said something like "lynch Casso tomorrow when I flip town."

She has completely different mindsets as town and scum. Thanks for posting the links. I am now a lot more sure Sakura is town. Your thoughts?

[DOMO]

SAD, you seemed to be scumreading casso d1 but have managed to dodge his wagons today. Why?

[Desperado]

Nothing ffery has done has given you any sort of townread?

not really no

Did you always read the other head when we've played?

dunno, but i'm not so much reading nat over you as i am finding something nat did really scummy and then you not doing anything obviously town to counterbalance it

Desp is there a reason why you're playing like this?

it mostly started as a way to deal with the insane speed of d1 during a time where i couldn't even hope to keep up, but there are also *reasons* both personal and game related that contributed

Who would you be willing to counterwagon before time's up and you lose in the trenches

SAD or SSK is pretty much the limit of who I'm willing to flash wagon.

+1 to both of these

[DOMO]

I like f16's meta wall there. I wish I could be bothered to metadive people properly.

I can accept sakura as town assuming f16 is town.

[DOMO]

dunno, but i'm not so much reading nat over you as i am finding something nat did really scummy and then you not doing anything obviously town to counterbalance it

Can you expand on this scummy thing nat did? A simple "no" and I'll assume it's out of bounds.

[Sakura Hana]

So Desp, what are your thoughts on F16's analysis of my meta and him saying I'm super town?