Mini 1556: Greetings Without Spain (GAME OVER FAREWELL)

[pisskop]

Vote: Xayzeck

ika got my last rvs.

[pisskop]

Gah.

vote: Xayzeck

[pisskop]

hmm? I'm no longer "!!RAGING!!" at ika.

[pisskop]

Did

he explain why he didn't Vote ika this time? Did I miss that part?

hmm? I'm no longer "!!RAGING!!" at ika.

I didn't answer his question

[pisskop]

why did you feel the need to explain why you didn't give your vote back to ika this time?

o.o

[pisskop]

Maybe I'm not following you.

That is his question, yes?

[pisskop]

You were the second person to ask, so I figured it deserved an answer.

ika and I have a tenuous history.

[pisskop]

I don't think I follow.

[pisskop]

Its fine Xay. :/ I think ts just overaggression.

Apparently they haven't read my meta. Im rather derpy, yea

[pisskop]

Look at it this way, I didn't RVS you first again this go around and didn't feel a need to address it when I didn't do it. Opposite ways of going about re-RVS. Opposite ways of going about it could lead to opposite thought processes. Opposite thought processes could lead to opposite alignments. Opposite alignments leads to him being scum.

[pisskop]

^^

nice overanalyzing. IGMEOY

^^

My overall reaction to the above quote. Translated to me sounds like Wifom.

---

Okay, so I recognize that explaining a prior vote in RVS is unusual. I was trying to make a nod to ika while poking a Xay. As you can see, we're like superbffs.

[pisskop]

So you're TownReading everyone pointing at you? Why do you have nothing to bring to the discussion?

As far as reads, I don't think I have much to go off. :/

VOTE: Aisa
Comment.

This would be the most standout thing around. A self-vote in the grey area between RVS and early game. I would say that rather then expecting us to comment upon her, she is say 'comment' as in 'here is a comment'.

If I had to pick out a scum from everyone who commented upon my interactions I would pick Xay; for his defense for me. Scum Xay could be pretending to avoid a quickhammer as a way to gain towncredit early.

[pisskop]

don't see anything that's been said in the last 3 pages as alignment indicative or even leaning? What do you normally do to gain reads? Do you feel like you've been contributing/accomplishing that here? Have you fully read the thread?

The last three pages are half made up of KCDA (KCDA has 19/75 posts), and because I usually try to study read flops and pushes I won't make too much out of the three pages. It all feels like omgus to me, and later when I have real points the RVS may become supporting points...

In what way did my post stand out to you? Do you think it is scummy?

It was a self-vote, for one. even in RVS it sticks out. I tend to believe RVS self-votes are slightly town-leaning.

More interesting is your 'comment'. What does it mean? To mean it looks like you are deliberately calling attention to yourself, but for social reasons. Are you familiar with several individuals in the game? Because otherwise I would assume you are just posting to announce you are here. Which would be a shade more null.

But I don't want to put much into it before you post real content. Its potentially a towntell to me, or another point in a case if it becomes a pattern.

[pisskop]

"X did Y to gain towncred" is applicable to a lot things. Is this outside of Xay's normal town meta?

We haven't been in too many games together. But as scum I think I would let the town know I disagreed with a wagon like this. Its easy cred when it flips, and if it doesn't then I can still say I was objective throughout it.

Xay doesn't seem prone to that kind of thinking, but I've never officially met Scum Xay.

[pisskop]

-on KCD

ICE POSTED MOD

I tends to see KCDs posts as very esscentric and now slightly town. Its one thing to be all over the board; but its another to prove you are paying attention with prompt corrections like this. I like it.

Aisa

:

You seem more oriented towards justifying your suspicion of Xay than trying to understand if he is actually scum.

Umm no. I am waiting for continued reactions from him. Specifically I wanted to see how he progressed with his vote on d3x. My experience with him is that he's a fairly honest and straightforward person. You can typically take what he says at face value. So, when he unvotes 3d3x after saying this

because you're twisting words in order to look like you're scumhunting.

I wonder if he is trying create some breathing room for himself.

d3x

If you're more into breaking down Night Actions {flips, etc}, how do you normally play D1s?

I prefer to look for odd patterns of behavior. read-flipping, post syntax, general consistency, and sometimes comparison to meta.

@piss- Please answer the rest of my questions along with this new one.

Which questions? Many of these questions are kind of insulting.

Why do you have nothing to bring to the discussion?

What kind of answer could I offer except actual content?

1)

You don't see anything that's been said in the last 3 pages as alignment indicative or even leaning?

2)

What do you normally do to gain reads?

3)

Do you feel like you've been contributing/accomplishing that here?

4)

Have you fully read the thread?

1) :/
2) answered above and prior.
3) Yes. I am not fond of RVS for much more than a chance to socialize before business, so a wagon on me has propelled us into early game.
4)

Xay

: Why is d3x town? You never quite answered his question about whether or not you felt he tried to misrepresent you.

As far as my own d3x read, I disliked his 19. At the time I thought it was scummy, but at this time I'm not so sure. It falls into line considering he is focused on Xay/Kthnx/I. Which in itself is something I'd like to note for later.
Do not understand his vote on you in 94 and personally loved 110. ika would have you think I'm some herpderper, but he wouldn't ever mention that in our one completed game I literally won the game for us after he left.

Also:

I don't understand how this makes him super town, or why you don't unvote after saying it.

He went from one vote to another without an 'unvote'.



-on Ice Ninja
Not much to say right now. Focused on kthnx. I hope its not a tunnel.

This is a ridiculous response.

I agree with this insofar as he is very challenging. Why would anybody have to know his meta to scumread him?



-on ika:

does everyone feel the need to have giant wall posts and respond with one liners?

all of this shit can be cluttered up and made me merly glance though becasue its just like quotes within quotes about shit.

so far the onyl legit thing i have seen is a case on Kthxbye so im just gonna sheep for now untill we have some real info

VOTE: Kthxbye

This is not my experience with ika. To reduce all the current conversation to as series of one-liners and then proceed to post a practically naked vote on somebody is enough to flag him for watch. This same ika spent pages setting up and playing intellectual games to try to ferret out scum before.
His apparent apathy doesn't seem genuine to me, otherwise he would just request to be placed out instead of just adding to the mess. Im not even getting into his opinion of me in 109, considering everything I've witnessed him do and say. I don't want grudges carried on inter-game, but he makes it so easy sometimes.

Lucresia

I feel like he has given off the strongest scum vibes. I do think there's a chance he could be VI which would mean it might not be the smartest lynch on day 1. I don't want that to be his excuse, just like how pisskop gave the derpy excuse, which is essentially the same

I don't like this. He never stated he was making any excuse for his actions, so I'm a little confused where you are getting this opinion of him. And I don't find much of what KCD to be scummy. Somewhat spazzy and all over the place, perhaps. But not even very VI. Its clear he knows what he is saying, even if nobody else does. I don't know if this is a shtick from him or what but I guarantee we will find out as we play.

What makes KCD scummiest thus far?

Kthnx

:

Still unimpressed at PK's posts and they just come off....fake. It's like he's TRYING to keep his cool. Maybe he's a completely different player than I am, but when I get wagoned when I'm town, I automatically look at my own wagon for the scum voting me.

I sorry you don't like me? I hope you understand that with my limited experience I don't quite know how to respond to my flashwagon. I see you as an overaggressive player of some experience, which means I will probably never have a good townread on you. Right now I see you as slightly town because you don't seem to mind upsetting people, and there's a certain amount of genuine irritation you've expressed at the game.

Why would you acknowledge that I most likely have a different playstyle than you but still try to scumread me for it?

[pisskop]

Oh. Here.

unvote

vote: ika
[/b]

Stay with us. You seem so different this game . . .

[pisskop]

gah. again.

vote: ika

[pisskop]

But not even very VI. Its clear he knows what he is saying,

[pisskop]

Here's my problem with this. At the bottom of page 3, you said you had nothing to really go off of in terms of reads. You just said that you develop reads and play D1 by examining other's consistency {among other things}. There had been more than enough to start formulating opinions {if not reads} by the amount of nonRVS discussion across almost 3 pages, but you were handwaving at it saying you had nothing to really comment on

Did you notice how I still, for the most part, have nothing from the first three pages? I dont find RVS or very early game useful until I need to make associations. I dont understand why this bothers you so much.

How on God's green Earth are my questions to you insulting? Trust me, when I mean to insult you, you'll fucking well know it

This entire block has me scratching my head. I'll tackle it a point at a time.
1- What is that stupid emote supposed to mean?
2- noted.
3- Your response makes no sense in regards to you gaining reads. At this point you had given nothing and only said that there's nothing to work with. Are you saying that your contribution to the game {at the time of your posting} was being Wagoned? Seriously?
4- This is a valid fucking question. ika hasn't read the thread, why should I assume you have? Until very recently, you haven't acted like you'd read the thread. You're saying you formulate reads D1 by looking at interactions, but you said that the 1st 3 pages had nothing for you to go off of. I'd say there's quite a bit in terms of player interactions. Stop posting emotes and answer my questions

1) Of course I had gut feelings. But that alone is nothing to base a read on. Its three pages, and not everyone even bothered to post. Do you think I should have omgused your post 19?
3) Your question was how I contributed. Since I had done nothing but respond to questions I hadn't done anything of merit.
4) No. its an insult. When you ask if Ive read the game it comes off as 'are you a moron, mate? You cant see why I would find it insulting?
And the first three pages is full of random votes and akward wifom. The beginning of the game is only situationally useful after initial content is generated.

[pisskop]

, pisskop do you think d3x is town or scum?

I think he leans scum. Im waiting for something I feel is conclusive.
I dont think 3dx and kthnx are buddies, but I think its likely one is scum. Too much aggression from both (esp kthnx) and too obvious on the buddying.

#115 nice flip flop

Do explain. Was I ever scumreading KCD?

I think you just answered your own question

That was the point of the answer.

outside of that, yes I think a fair portion of my activity in any game is answering questions.

---

Im on a phone most weekends, but our New Eyes:

Rhinox. Got nothing of note. Doesnt seem concerned with impressing people. So that.

Titus. You. :/ I was slightly suprised when mod said ika

found

you. Post more please.

Thom. Very upfront. Some issues for me following everything but definitely putting in work.

[pisskop]

. It's a rather poor reason to vote him.

Do please explain.

also - plissk, why don't you think d3x/kthx are buddies? alot of their interactions seem forced and faked, or at least a little weird.

I feel they are a little too obvious about it. Part of it is that it seems to have really sprung up after Xay and I mentioned we joined together.
In RVS they had their haha, but it was blatently obvious when they started comparing their friendship to the interactions between Xay/I. If the two of them are scum were acting in tandum to push Xay/I then I dont know why they would buddy up to lynch townies. Fairly counterintuitive, imo.

[pisskop]

Next is this weird connection between him and Xay. d3x and I are close friends irl and play together often on this sight. If anything, I'm more suspect of him possibly being scum when I'm town than anything. The complete opposite is found from PK in regards to Xay's alignment culminating in his scum slip in p197 lumping himself in with Xay as "townies". There is absolutely no way (barring Masons which I doubt this game has)

This is my scumslip? Refering to Xayzeck as a 'townie' in a hypothetical about a kthnx/d3x scumteam?

Thats . . . thats sometthing.

Titus, is this really town to you?
What do you think Aisa?
Any thoughts on ika's behavior?
Opinion of KCD?

[pisskop]

Titus, is this really town to you?
What do you think

of

Aisa?
Any thoughts on ika's behavior?
Opinion of KCD?

bolded edit.

[pisskop]

Ok, first things first.

Kthx, can you go through premise by premise why Pisskop slipped?

Ok, but I'm going to spoiler it so this doesn't get too long.

Spoiler: PK's slip and lead up to it.

Its fine Xay. :/ I think ts just overaggression.

No suspicion that Xay might be scum. I'm sorry, maybe it's because of my relationship with d3x, but I'm MORE paranoid about people I know than you other strangers. Him talking to Xay in such a buddy way is off. Keeping what I see as a scum slip in mind, this reads to me like scum buddying up to town or scum chatting away with his scum buddy. Also, this comment directed to Xay come out of nowhere. What's fine? All Xay has done up to this post is Vote PK, then unvote and vote Kcd saying he's not a page 2 L-1 type of guy....

As you can see, we're like superbffs.

Weirdness aside, super bffs will be able to read each other better than anyone else correct? Keep this in mind.

If I had to pick out a scum from everyone who commented upon my interactions I would pick Xay; for his defense for me. Scum Xay could be pretending to avoid a quickhammer as a way to gain towncredit early.

Ok, so super bff PK see's something odd going on with his super bff Xay. In this post, he says he doesn't see much to go on, but he already see's possible scum Xay. Notice no vote. Also, up to this point, he hasn't pointed one finger of suspicion to anyone actually voting him.

We haven't been in too many games together. But as scum I think I would let the town know I disagreed with a wagon like this. Its easy cred when it flips, and if it doesn't then I can still say I was objective throughout it.

Xay doesn't seem prone to that kind of thinking, but I've never officially met Scum Xay.

So, first part is Xay did something that PK thinks scum would do. Second part is this isn't something he sees Xay doing? Third part is he's never met Scum Xay? .... Whaaa...this is fense sitting at it's finest...or worst depending how you look at it.

I dont think 3dx and kthnx are buddies, but I think its likely one is scum. Too much aggression from both (esp kthnx) and too obvious on the buddying.

...cricket....cricket....anyone else see the problem with this? d3x and I are obviously buddying....? Um..........I won't post all the quotes from both of them that happen before this, but let's just say....yeah....
Now, if he actually thought that one of me or d3x is scum due to this obvious buddying, why is he buddying, then "suspicious" then scumslip buddying Xay? Why didn't town him stick to Xay-scum read if this is really what he thinks leads to scum?

If the two of them are scum were acting in tandum to push

Xay/I

then I dont know why they would buddy up to lynch

townies

.

Scumslip. I don't know if they are scum together or only one of them, but if I had to pick one over the other, I'd say it was PK due to this entire spoiler. Don't get me wrong, d3x's case on Xay is solid as hell...I just can't get over this. He specifically states "Xay/I" then calls it "townies". Look above, wasn't he unsure of Xay due to the defense and buddying Xay was doing? Maybe I'm reading too much into it, maybe not. My gut though says not.

-------------------------------------------------------
Aisa, I'm sorry you're tired, but you need to post more content. All I see from your last post is you pretty much being agreeable to the current situation of the game without any original thoughts of your own. I'd like a full reads list from you on each player with explanations of why you are reading them whichever way. I'm not fully convinced you're not skimming this game and actively lurking.

No suspicion that Xay might be scum.

We clearly need to clarify our relationship. I don't know Xayzeck in real life. I've played a grand total of 3 games with him, including this one. I am not on the same level with him as other posters on the site, and certainly not on not on the same level as some posters I know from other forums. I like him, and agreed to coordinate more play with him. We aren't going to display some keen insight in regards to the others posts for this reason. Maybe in time, but not at this time.

---

Weirdness aside, super bffs

:/ Let's quote the whole thing now, for context.

I was trying to make a nod to ika while poking a Xay. As you can see, we're like superbffs.

"I was trying to make a nod to ika . . . As you can see, we're like superbffs." And I would hope you can see the sarcasm by now.

---

Ok, so super bff PK see's something odd going on with his super bff Xay. In this post, he says he doesn't see much to go on, but he already see's possible scum Xay. Notice no vote.

No vote, except:

Gah.

vote: Xayzeck

---

So, first part is Xay did something that PK thinks scum would do. Second part is this isn't something he sees Xay doing? Third part is he's never met Scum Xay? .... Whaaa...this is fense sitting at it's finest...or worst depending how you look at it.

Fair point. I've been fencey on the Xay issue.

---

...cricket....cricket....anyone else see the problem with this? d3x and I are obviously buddying....? Um..........I won't post all the quotes from both of them that happen before this, but let's just say....yeah....
Now, if he actually thought that one of me or d3x is scum due to this obvious buddying, why is he buddying, then "suspicious" then scumslip buddying Xay? Why didn't town him stick to Xay-scum read if this is really what he thinks leads to scum?

I don't think I follow. Are you asking why I'm 'buddying Xay' if I think your buddying is suspicious?

---

Scumslip.

At least I am not the only one who doesn't see it.

---
Conclusion:
I apparently committed a scumslip nobody can see, and I did it by keeping my vote on Xay while fencesitting. I don't know how clear Xay and I can make it, we aren't incredibly knowledgeable of the other. And I am unsure if you purposely misconstrued the bff comment in 68.

[pisskop]

Xay is L-2. The only thing I'm interested in right now is why PrivateI, kthx, Titus, piss, Kcd, and Lucresia are not voting Xay

Im still voting Titus. I was waiting for her response, and while it wasn't great its enough that I think Xay/Kthnx are the wagons of today.

@PK can you point out where d3x and kthx have been buddying? i have seen a few weird interactions that seem false but i don't remember them explicitly "buddying" each other.

Maybe buddying is the wrong word. They play up their relationship at several points in a way I think they wouldn't as a scumteam. I think one of them is scum though.

Spoiler:

I'm rl friends with d3x and we joined this game 'together' as well.

X p60- Why are you continuing this conversation?

I will let you know as time passes if d3x is scum or not

Next is this weird connection between him and Xay. d3x and I are close friends irl and play together often on this sight. If anything, I'm more suspect of him possibly being scum when I'm town than anything.

pedit:

Wait... Are you saying this was a legit Vote?

No, Im saying there was no reason to change it because it was already on.

Know what PK, explain your p197 where you group yourself and Xay as townies

This is my scumslip? Refering to Xayzeck as a 'townie' in a hypothetical about a kthnx/d3x scumteam?

So you need a breakdown of the hypothetical?

I said, loosely, that 'if kthnx and 3dx were scum together then they wouldn't team up to push Xay and I.' If kthnx/3dx are buddies, then presumably Xay isn't their buddy as well because of how hard they pushed him.

I don't think I can make this any clearer to anybody.

unvote

I will look again at my kthnx case and either vote Xay or him.

[pisskop]

I don't really feel like banging my head against a brick wall but I will if required.

174, 180, and 184. Aye. It was so quick I thought you would have expounded on it a little.

Your posts lack their usual frequency or personality, imo. But it seems to me that that is not a good tell for you.

[pisskop]

What does p70 have to do with any sort of interaction with Kthx?

Sorry, I guess I quoted the wrong part. I mean this, which is representative of the kind of thing you've said to/about kthnx this game.

@Kthx- Your normal early game obvTown play and

@thom

I am not including their interactions in my reasons why I think either may be scum, I just think it indicates they aren't scum together.

[pisskop]

My case on kthnx written down:

Kthnxs non-RVS voting pattern is
13 pisskop, for RVS
48 xay, for unvoting me
58 pisskop, presumably for pressure
118 ika, naked, presumably for ika voting kthnx
131 xay, sheeps 3dx onto Xay again
149 KCD, is his 1v1 on KCD
198 pisskop, for 'scumslip'

erratic, but he seems to prefer those who are popular targets or scumreadng him.

His playstyle is an aggressive one, so keeping that in mind:

I saw that he felt the need to say his last RVS vote switched which, IMO, is him explaining that he is voting someone else in THIS rendition of RVS and recognizing in the RVS vote post it before anyone can question him about it. Look at it this way, I didn't RVS you first again this go around and didn't feel a need to address it when I didn't do it. Opposite ways of going about re-RVS. Opposite ways of going about it could lead to opposite thought processes. Opposite thought processes could lead to opposite alignments. Opposite alignments leads to him being scum.

I still don't understand this, or the merit in it. Can somebody explain it? :/

His pushes on kcd seem unwarranted and over a playstyle rather than its content. Contrast to Titus' that focuses on his content.
He goes from 47 to post 66

...Too hard to tell VI from scum.....

in which he calls out KCDs rationalism (KCD clearly doesn't want to quicklynch anyone, but that doesn't stop kthnx from strawmanning it up). Also of note is suggesting that his reads are subject to change as he 'figures' out VI from scum.

He downplays the case on him in 106. It was best put forth in post 99, however its scattered all over the page.

The single most offputting post he has made thus far:

I will lynch you in a heartbeat if I think you're scum and you will do the same. I guess I'll sheep you for the moment onto

. My issue is the tone. It, to me, comes off as a vague threat coupled with promising reassurance. Putting other people on edge and then agreeing with them is a way to keep them docile. It manipulates the relationship in that he took an implied rule and used it for towncredits.

Post 144 is him having to be reminded that different playstyles exist, which he seems to acknowledge in 82 and later in 200. twice in 200.

151 is his 1v1 of kcd, which he abandoned as soon as he saw a better opportunity (and that it didn't have much support).

Really d3x? really? you agree with all that bullshit post with his bullshit case is legit somehow? WTF... and I thought we were friends.

how did I miss this in my 'buddying' text above? :/ that's cool, here. Downplaying more cases on him.

198 is the scumslip he has been pushing to the present.

More later, much more, but this had to be pointed out.

pisskop: Prob scum. A total of one post from this slot that had me reading his as town (p115). First thing that sticks out is him not even looking at those on his wagon for possible scum. This is the complete opposite of what I see wagoned town (including myself) tend to do. Next is this weird connection between him and Xay. d3x and I are close friends irl and play together often on this sight. If anything, I'm more suspect of him possibly being scum when I'm town than anything. The complete opposite is found from PK in regards to Xay's alignment culminating in his scum slip in p197 lumping himself in with Xay as "townies". There is absolutely no way (barring Masons which I doubt this game has) that he could know Xay's alignment without being scum and either KNOWING Xay is town or trying to make them both out to be town while they are both scum. My opinion at the moment is he should be today's lynch.

:/

After Titus asks for clarification on the scumslip he writes a full case on me in [url=http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5734055234[/url]and then continues to try to shove his case down any wordhole he can find.

To continue on buddying, in 252 I made a small list of quotes:

Spoiler:

I'm rl friends with d3x and we joined this game 'together' as well.

X p60- Why are you continuing this conversation?

I will let you know as time passes if d3x is scum or not

Next is this weird connection between him and Xay. d3x and I are close friends irl and play together often on this sight. If anything, I'm more suspect of him possibly being scum when I'm town than anything.

Swap post 70 for 164 and you have four fine examples of potential buddying to me.


^^Not sure what is going on with the spoiler quote . . .

[pisskop]

-on Xay

First, only 17 posts. of a current 262.

Reflexive unvote on a wagon in 38. It was L-3, however he claims he though it was L-1 as per 9 player newbie games.

This

Also, pkop and I will probably buddy quite a bit this game, because we chose to join together. It's up to you to decide if it's alignment indicative for this game

is a standout statement, however imo it reflects better with the genuineness of his personality. I think him stating we will be buddying up is worse than him telling you that you'll have to deal with it, but that's just me.

if I do actually buddy him a lot and he flips scum I don't get mislynched.

:/ This is an upsetting sentiment.

in 160 there are two things that upset me.
He sheeps without a reason and proclaims he is town. Both are slightly scummy in my eyes.

217 was an admission of defeat. Either as a town giving up or scum.

Overall I can see scum motivation in it, and its hard to ignore the combined cases of posts like 205 and 212.

I'm claiming intent.

[pisskop]

Umm... piss...

Also, why are you largely ignoring me?

I don't think I've been ignoring you, just focused elsewhere.
To me, you are nullscum. You have some good and some bad posting, and I'm watching you the same way I watch any nullscum individual.

Ugh. Why do you insist on being such a passive player? Why don't you ask me something instead of 'waiting' on something. Maybe it's just a playstyle difference, but this kind of stuff just feels like a huge copout. Also, why have you not responded to anything I said in p143? I'd think that if you're interested in me as Scum, you wouldn't pass up the chance to delve into a discussion I'm having... with you.

143 Linky

RVS died super early. Forgiving a post or two here or there, it was done by p13/14.

In the very early game, esp in a game where many people don't know each other, its easy to find faux reasons people are or aren't scummy. Its much more reliable to reference RVS/early game after time has passed and use it to support more founded cases.

If you felt like dropping an OMGUS on me, so be it. Overall, I think you should have posted the gut feelings you had on others. How are we supposed to get a read on you and how are you supposed to interact with others if you're not going to post. Doing anything else is {active}Lurking. Saying you had 'nothing to go off of' is clearly not the same as 'having gut feelings'. Why did you not want to participate in the discussion with your 'gut feelings', thus pushing us further from the RVS that you deem to be largely worthless?

I don't think I was actively lurking. I just didn't have any substantial content to post. Gut Reads have gotten me lynched in other games, when I presented them. Aside, by withholding my gutreads I give them time to grow into provable connections. Presenting them early can alter the behaviors of those I am watching.

especially when letting the interactions continue provides way more valuable information.

The above is about how I feel about it.

In reference to how you gain reads, I asked what your biggest contribution had been. Since you have since said that you gain reads by gauging reactions, why were you not trying to get those reactions?

I am. I ask questions, and I watch responses. I freely admit I am a somewhat passive player, and have been told by more aggressive players I should be more pushy with my pushing ( :/ ). That is, that I should be presenting cases sooner and giving the target less time to respond with appeals.

-Your reaction to Aisa in p69 is based off of the 1st 3 pages, but you waited for someone to call you out on not producing content before you posted it.
-Your further discussion with Aisa in p75 is based off of stuff from the 1st 3 pages.
-You finally gave a reaction to my push on you page 1 in p115. You also talk about your progressing read on Xay, which has roots in the 1st 3 pages.

Aisa hasn't posted enough to really understand her, and she asked me questions about the first three pages. I responded to her.
And imo Xay's scummiest content comes well after 100 posts. his early play is made relevant to his later play, not the other way around.


In short, I don't think I am playing terribly, just in a passive manner more suited for analysis than playing a social game.

[pisskop]

vote: Xay

pm me when you want to play together again.

[pisskop]

Can you point out a few posts?

Also, who else?

[pisskop]

Titus, where did the scumread on me come from?

[pisskop]

:/ why did you vote me just now? Out of protest?

What points did kthnx make that you think are decent?

[pisskop]

Xay is L-1. :/

unvote

welcome to my townlist, bro.

kthnx, I have a case out on you.

[pisskop]

vote: Kthnx

Hunh? Okay.

[pisskop]

if PK really felt that letting interactions continue provides way more valuable information

Lynches should happen when they're ready to happen

I took this amoung other things that the day was closing. I happened to agree that we have a lot of information that will come out over any flip. Answer the case against you, and stop shoving misrepresented quotes down the Town's throat. We need rationality, not baseless yelling. Nor do we need this:

PK never came up with some original thought nor did he give us his reads list.

. I have given at least a whole case worth of content, which you choose to ignore.

Next, let's look at the 2 cases. If you ask me, his post about me looks waaay more convincing to himself than what he had to say about Xay....yet he 'hammers' Xay???

Umm, no. My case on you is quite valid. I am presenting it from my perspective.

---

@ pisskop - Did you think you were hammering him when you placed your vote?

I missed Thom's vote, or rather it didn't quite click that he unvoted Xay.

Day QT? Where'd you get that idea from lol

What I wanna know pk is what was the point of claiming intent and then hamering 2 posts later when no one posted in between?

It was mostly so everyone knew I was going to hammer him after I finished my business (3dx's questions) and could intervene if they felt the need to. Xay already claimed VT in 202, so I was trying to make sure everyone knew it was coming. I was unsure if I should have worded it as such, but I guess I know now . . .

I find it much more plausible for NewbScumpiss to derpHammer than ScumXay to play it out as he did. It pains me to say that. UnVote

What about a scenerio in which I am town trying to get flip information to strengthen my own suspicions? I already said I'm watching you. Yea, it was a derphammer, I had to talk myself into hammering him, and it was hard.

---

So, does everyone townread kthnx now? Or is anybody worried why he would just steamroll past a case on him? Post 262 and he blatantly ignores a scumcase on him? I'm not voting Xay today, again, and this makes kthnx the second viable wagon in my eyes. All we get in response to it is this:

Pk, nobody cares about your scum case. Die

?

[pisskop]

I buy kthx's slip when you referred to Xay as a townie. Bleh. I'm fairly certain I am wrong on one of the two of you. My town read says you and provides a decent but not flawless slip.

Oh, you are aware there was no slip? He's even moved away from that and started pushing even odder things, now that I've broken it down for everybody.

[pisskop]

Your whole 'case' on me is plagiarism from other players and what they've already said. Thus me saying nothing of original thought.

Ill catch up tomorrow, but I suggest you go find the posts I plagiarized. Liar

[pisskop]

The plagarism on Pisskop also is much weaker than you make it out to be.

The point isnt that its weak, its that he's lying through his teeth to make a lynch. You, stop defending him. Stop ameliorating his own scumminess.

[pisskop]

No, I do not have a town read on Kthx. That said, I don't really get what your case on him is. Can you maybe give me the bulletpoint version rather than the paragraph version?

My case on kthnx written down:

And now bulleted, in a nutshell

-Erratic voting pattern that focuses on either top wagons or those that specifically scumread him
-wtf is post 27?
-pushes on kcd over a playstyle difference rather than content.
-Strawmans KCD, myself.
-post 131
-1v1 weirdness on kcd, whoch he abandons quickly when winds change.
-He pushes this 'scumslip' on me, which I could understand him not following the game, but continues to push it after its disproven.
-Is now saturating the game with blatantly false aggressive overtures.

which someone asked you to provide and you seem not to care

Because 24 hours is totally an unreasonable timeframe to wait to comply.

[pisskop]

My vote will almost certainly fall on one of the 3 between piss, Titus, and PI. I'm leaning piss at the moment.

When did you stop scumreading kthx?
Also why?

[pisskop]

Pisskop's counterargument is shit, but I do apply logic to make sure if I m right.

I don't understand this post.

[pisskop]

If anything I think Ice Ninja and Titus are partners.


99 Ice posts a case on kthx and votes
101 ika follows without really explaining why.
Note how ika

never

mentions Ice's name once. Ever.

---

The PK case: hes more of VI from what i have seen but wont mind lynching him as utility.

I am watching him, though, and he would probably be a tolerable place to put my vote should I change my mind about you.

---

171 and 174. Initial posts by Titus. An unvote of kthx and a vote of a scumread of his, kcda. Buddy much?
175 more buddy.
184 surprise @ more buddy.

---

While I like lurker hunting, I see d3x's point on voting ika at the moment. I feel like current ika votes are bad but future ika votes could be very good.

Ika replaced out so his actions are completely neutral.

Why are they neutral?

---

199 has bugged me for awhile. Titus and I have

zero

games we can mention here. Also noting the 'its so scummy and reckless its town' remark.

I don't like Pisskop as scum. Pisskop's wagon taking off and putting together suggests scum present somewhere on his wagon, not that he was scum.

If you'd convince me that Pisskop slipped, then my vote would naturally go there.

I buy kthx's slip when you referred to Xay as a townie. Bleh. I'm fairly certain I am wrong on one of the two of you. My town read says you and provides a decent but not flawless slip.

Here she ignores the whole hypothetical part of the discussion:

When Kthxbye posted about Pisskop's use of the word "townies" in his post, it implied knowledge that Xay was a townie.

340 and 343 Still blatently ignoring the whole 'pkop was using a hypothetical to explain why a d3x/kthx scumteam wasn't a thing'. to push a lynch on me.

---

Xay vs. Thom feels like town on town, though I don't mind it

o.o

Xay scum reads me because I admitted I'm not 100% certain of a day 1 lynch.

Or that you push it in a nasty manner.

---

307 Titus defends Ice.

Kthx's early play was very scummy, and some of his really recent stuff has been iffy

'But I totally buddied him so I won't worry about voting him now.'
329 Ice doesn't provide any reasons for the vote on Titus except a sheep.

Xay has always been a scumread of mine. I doubt the sudden clearing of him due to the "tell".

More setting up mislynches by Titus.

---

-Conclusion:
If one flips scum I'm going for the other. I think it's fully possible that kthx is in on it too.

unvote
vote: Titus

[pisskop]

For instance, his big point is that ika never mentioned Ice. That's non-sense

Care to quote him mentioning Ice?

[pisskop]

If PK's counterarguement is shit why is he not scum for it? Why is he not scum for a crappy
counterarguement just because you can think of one better? How does that work?

Who are you quoting/talking to here? Titus called my 'counterarguement' shit, not me, and Titus didnt write 341, which you mention right above.

Pisskop, you obviously weren't talking about a hypo in 197. I naturally don't like slip argumenrs. I would hav brushed off Kthx argument if I could find my own reason for it not to be a slip.

197 is clearly hypothetical. How you keep brushing by it and claiming you use logic is beyond me. It even has the word 'if' in it, and kthx has ceded the point.

I especially like the part of your 353 where I made a case on you/Ice to get you lynched.

In addition, if you thought it really was a slip why do you keep saying things like:

Xay has always been a scumread of mine. I doubt the sudden clearing of him due to the "tell".

? If you really thought I knew his alignment you wouldnt still be scumreading him.

[pisskop]

Catching up.

Oh my god this game is so bad.

Why does ika placing out make his actions neutral?

On the assumption that this is another scum slip, My vote is going to go back on

Can you explain why this is a slip?


383 I don't understand. I self-cleared myself?

When I'm scum I'm not obv scum ever.

Oh, I get it now.


404 half of her list is moot or has been discussed.

#15 nope 15 ain't downtime. Downtime was near March 1st if memory serves and verification serves me right

15 is a reference to an prior interaction you would be privy to Titus. And you know that we cant discuss that yet.

---

Would like to hear from more from PI, Aisa. I have a null+ read on Aisa, but almost nothing on PI.

[pisskop]

What?

[pisskop]

Oh look, call out pk and poof, like magic, he appears!

What?

[pisskop]

Because I don't like to post on Sundays/have classes until 1300 on Mondays you would try to snark me?

Trying to infer alignment from my schedule is at best terrible and at worst scummy.

That irritates me.

[pisskop]

Why Aisa or Lucresia?

[pisskop]

I think pisskop would do all of those things as town.

That . . . doesn't sound like a compliment.

[pisskop]

Oh, so you DO know what I was talking about....

So you admit to jut throwing things at the wall.

he didn't even try to get me lynched once a shiney new counter wagon to his formed.

Except:

284 and

I think it's fully possible that kthx is in on it too.

I find Titus scummy, and with several associations with you.

And also you and your other buddy were talking here:

^this....soooooo much this...

I totally understand why you're saying what you are

PI: will u be playing this game or...?

PI: will u be playing this game or...?

^

[pisskop]

My thoughts:


1) We most likely have found a scum in kthx.

They play up their relationship at several points in a way I think they wouldn't as a scumteam. I think one of them is scum though.

To continue on buddying, in 252 I made a small list of quotes:

.Swap post 70 for 164 and you have four fine examples of potential buddying to me.

2) Ice can still be kthx's buddy.

While I don't mind your vote on Titus, your painting of me as suspicious with her is a joke.

the fact that ika didn't mention ICE and that somehow links them is SO FUCKING STUPID IT'S NOT FUNNY

3)

On the assumption that this is another scum slip

-Can you explain this 'slip'?
-Have you read up?


4)

I'm calling the team right now, piss, Rubicon, PrivateI

What happened to your Xay scumread?
456 seems like a turnabout from 361.

[pisskop]

What do you think of them apples?

It upsets my reads some that Titus was town. I still find him scummy, but Titus proved I was wrong once. What is your take on Ice?

[pisskop]

Probably going to PI or Ice.

Aisa was a mild townread most of D1. I want to see everyone check in.

Why did you switch votes like that, Xay?

[pisskop]

Independly concerning. I want PI to produce relevant content. I dont think he has made terribly strong associations with anyone. but he has a thing for you.