NY 170: Georgetown II (Game Over)

[Aegor]

This isn't a good enough reason to like a case. What in particular do you think is good about it?

All of it. It is logically valid and plausible, given that soundness is an impossible expectation.

[Bulbazak]

But still significantly (in the statistical sense) less scummy than Rainbow, whom I want to die ASAP.

Why is RBD scum? So far this looks like standard RBD play to me.

That bulb vote is a terrible coast and his pressure on your slot has been for the longest time.

And yet every time I've been asked to explain my read, I have. I've seen no serious rebuttals, other than "Emo is town" (or "townread by everyone". I still don't see how that is an acceptable defense.) or "Nuh-uh". As for my pressuring that slot for a long time, is there something wrong with continuously pressuring a slot you think is scum? Did that spontaneously become something that is unacceptable? Perhaps that explains a game full of "heck if I know" reads or players we'd rather see dead because they are contributing diddly squat, but yeah, I can see how pressuring a scumread is such a great sin.

It's true that she was the first vote on ABR, but that is a safe place on a scum buddy's wagon to distance.

Nice misrep. All I did was throw a simple bus on ABR right? Since you have been tunneling my slot this whole game, you should know best that this was not what happened. I'm going to bed.

What's the misrep again? That you were the first one on ABR, or that first spot on a buddy's wagon is a good place to sit if your aim is distancing? I don't see how either of these is disputable. For the record, I don't think you anticipated the ABR wagon taking off the way it did. It is also not indisputable that your successor, Tony, found his way off the wagon. Nor is it disputable that your slot stayed away from that wagon like it was the plague. And yet, with your slot having spent a majority of its time off the ABR wagon, you are now trying to take credit for said wagon now that it has gone through?

random thought: appealing for abr's replacement to join before lynching the slot instead of addressing why everyone is voting abr is the most incriminating of everything that had to do with abr/kaboooom.

Why is that the most incriminating?

there is little to no adaptation from him - see his vote back on that slot despite the ABR flip.

Is there some reason to think that Emo couldn't be scum with ABR? Heck, by extension, is there any reason to think that Garmr couldn't be scum with ABR? You remember Garmr, right? He was the guy who kept trying to derail building wagons d2.

Another thing that is grating on me is that Bulb also has an interaction with Fonz/Tebow that feels off to me. The biggest thing is that half way though bulb tries to brush of Fonz by claiming he wasn't paying any attention to him when all he was doing was responding to Fonz. It was just out of place and looked like he was trying to belittle fonz and I don't really get the reasoning as to why he would go out of his way to do that.

I think I've been clear on this every single time you've asked me about it. Fonz was a townread who I felt was approaching the game from a different perspective, one which I happened to disagree with. Beyond explaining a few points, I was trying not to exert myself in what I felt was a futile argument over playstyle.

[Aegor]

@Bulb: Post 1880.

Oh, and by the way, anyone even discussing my wagon hopping yesterday while ignoring Rainbow's clear attempt to make a kab lynch occur instead of an ABR lynch should either read the thread more carefully or just be honest with us and claim scum.

[Huntress]

Vote Count 4.2

Bulbazak (2) - inHimshallibe, Sotty7
Chevre (1) - emogirl123
emogirl123 (1) - Bulbazak
Rainbowdash (1) - Aegor

Not voting (7) - Chevre, DisCode, emeraldemon, HighShroomish, kabooooom, Rainbowdash, Thor665


With twelve players alive, it takes seven votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day Four is Thursday, 27th March 20.00 GMT, (in (expired on 2014-03-27 20:00:00)).

Note:

Still looking for a replacement for Discode.
Chevre is V/LAish.

[emogirl123]

I've seen no serious rebuttals, other than "Emo is town" (or "townread by everyone". I still don't see how that is an acceptable defense.) or "Nuh-uh".

yawn

. Notice that Bulba keeps asking questions along the lines of "how is emo/garmr town". Click that link and read Bulba/Rainbow exchange. He asks a question, Rainbow answers vaguely and Bulba doesn't ask for clarification but changes the subject. Now he is crying about how no one is giving him a serious response.

Bulba, I know your tactic. Have everyone babysit you for the whole game thinking "aww, it's only bulba acting up again, don't worry about it!". Pro strat for scum.

[HighShroomish]

@Bulb: Post 1880.

Oh, and by the way, anyone even discussing my wagon hopping yesterday while ignoring Rainbow's clear attempt to make a kab lynch occur instead of an ABR lynch should either read the thread more carefully or just be honest with us and claim scum.

Yet you were one who was consistently saying that you would lynch either. How does RBD wanting a kabooooom lynch make RBD scum? And what has changed about kabooooom to make you not want to lynch him? He may be posting more, but not with much content.

[Aegor]

And it was true that I would lynch either. What is the problem there? The difference between me and Rainbow is that I explicitly stated intention to lynch BOTH ABR and kab if necessary and Rainbow clearly attempted to push the kab wagon over the ABR wagon hoping to avoid an ABR lynch.

I never said that I do not want to lynch kab. I simply said I have higher priority targets today given ABR's flip. Had ABR flipped town, I would be all over kab today. And I am not going to resist a kab wagon today.

[HighShroomish]

Who says he was trying to avoid an ABR lynch? He was adamant about kab, but how does that translate to he was trying to avoid an ABR lynch?

[Aegor]

Read his ISO from the beginning of Day 3 onward and then post that you have read it. We can go from there; I have no interest in discussing this with someone who has not done his research.

[emeraldemon]

Sorry to prod dodge, this weekend is a bit crazy for me, I will get in here hopefully tomorrow, but definitely by Monday.

[HighShroomish]

Read his ISO from the beginning of Day 3 onward and then post that you have read it. We can go from there; I have no interest in discussing this with someone who has not done his research.

Yeah, I read it. My position is the same.

[kabooooom]

seems pretty town to me.

...so why did you ask me my read on her? I didn't discuss her, I had expressed nothing much about her in a negative way, and you also don't have a negative view...so why ask? Were you expecting a hidden scumread there or something?

Basically I could be convinced when it comes to Aegor now. His pressure on me to unvote ABR yesterday when he was the leading wagon was all out of whack. I have a much higher scum read on bulb mostly because of his push on the emo slot, I pretty much hate it. There is also some gut thrown in there RE: my bulb read.

Also, pay attention to, at a point when ABR was the bigger wagon and Kaboom was coming up, Aegor did that odd move to Kaboom all while constantly re-stating that he was good with either wagon, but only really selling the Kaboom one. Feels like a bus he got spooked on. I'll admit I say this without really paying attention to ho whe got on the wagon (and I probably should look at that) but his actions there do read as nervy buddy to me rather than frustrated town looking for any lynch at all.

Can you give me the quick bullet points for the Bulba wagon? I get the feel a lot of it is centered in the earlier game days that I didn't read.
I don't feel I have a good grasp of it.

she is my one of the best townread. You didnt mention her when you daud ED and HS are your town read. So I wanted to know your read on her.

[kabooooom]

Also, I dont have internet access tmr.

[Bulbazak]

@Bulb: Post 1880.

Oh, and by the way, anyone even discussing my wagon hopping yesterday while ignoring Rainbow's clear attempt to make a kab lynch occur instead of an ABR lynch should either read the thread more carefully or just be honest with us and claim scum.

I've played with RBD before. He likes to policy lynch players that he feels will be a detriment. Of course it will make sense that he will push a slot that has consistently been useless instead of one being replaced. So again, why is RBD scum?

I've seen no serious rebuttals, other than "Emo is town" (or "townread by everyone". I still don't see how that is an acceptable defense.) or "Nuh-uh".

yawn

. Notice that Bulba keeps asking questions along the lines of "how is emo/garmr town". Click that link and read Bulba/Rainbow exchange. He asks a question, Rainbow answers vaguely and Bulba doesn't ask for clarification but changes the subject. Now he is crying about how no one is giving him a serious response.

Bulba, I know your tactic. Have everyone babysit you for the whole game thinking "aww, it's only bulba acting up again, don't worry about it!". Pro strat for scum.

RBD's answer reminded me of a previous game I played with him. He was hard headed in that game and opposed the person I was pushing as scum, who just so happened to be scum (I ended up tracking him to a kill.). I recognized that pushing further than that with him would do no good. And I don't see how asking people to explain their reads is such a bad thing.

[emogirl123]

And I don't see how asking people to explain their reads is such a bad thing.

Except that wasn't what you were doing, it's what you want your image to be, there is a difference. If you truly cared about an answer instead of acting like you care, you would have made an attempt to discuss my slot. Instead you just ask empty questions acting like you care while parking your vote on my slot the entire game.

[HighShroomish]

Do people usually presume this much BS here?

[Bulbazak]

And I don't see how asking people to explain their reads is such a bad thing.

Except that wasn't what you were doing, it's what you want your image to be, there is a difference. If you truly cared about an answer instead of acting like you care, you would have made an attempt to discuss my slot. Instead you just ask empty questions acting like you care while parking your vote on my slot the entire game.

Asking people why they're reading you as town is not asking people to explain their reads? Did the English language change while I was not looking? And I have discussed your slot and why I'm reading it the way I am. That was a lot of d1. It's not my fault that d2 began and everybody decided you got a buy for some reason. And everytime someone asks me about my read, do you know what I do? I explain it. So saying that I'm not attempting to explain or discuss my read on you is utter BS.

[emogirl123]

bulba, you keep falling back on how I am scum and you have multiple people tell you that I am town. let's solve this first, why am I scum?

Day 1 reasons + multiple slot replacements + Appeal to Majority + commenting on the NK

Okay. This is your case after 3 phases of emogirl is scum?

[HighShroomish]

I don't want to quote all of that because I'm on my phone, but his case is much bigger than just the words he used to represent it.

[emogirl123]

I thought I saw evidence of an associative tell between her and Garmr in pregame. I pushed Garmr on this, and Emo essentially freaks out and votes me. Later she said that she was trying to understand my reasoning, but there was no hint of that whatsoever in her first mention of me, where she happened to vote me for voting Garmr. She then said that she was defending herself, but at no point did she ever argue in defense of herself, only Garmr. She then later said that she had been waiting to vote any reasonable case on Garmr, which again pointed to the fact that she was preparing to either chainsaw defend Garmr or WK him. She also contradicted herself several times, and was overly concerned about how she looked, or how she "towntold". After the wagon on her dissipated, she stopped posting as often, and she failed to deliver cases she promised, since no one was pushing her.

Emo attacked me when I voted Garmr and stated that I saw a possible connection between her and Garmr. She then said she wanted to open up a line of discussion with me, but this is false, because she had been voting me and flat out attacking me instead of asking me questions. She then said that she was trying to defend herself, but this is false, because she was only defending Garmr the entire time. She then admits that she had been prepared to vote anyone who brought up "an actual case" on Garmr. She also talked several times about how she was trying to "town tell". Finally, when the wagon on her dissipated, so did her activity. During this time, she kept on promising a case on me, but would then fall silent and fail to deliver when not questioned on it.

A lot of it is connected with my read of the Garmr-slot. I felt their interactions in pregame felt extremely fake. Later, when I voted Garmr, Emo flipped out, voted me, and defended him like crazy. Later, she lied and said that she wasn't defending him, when she really was. I continued to push her, and her wagon grew, but it eventually disintegrated when people started attacking Chevre. Emo's posts have continued to resonate as scummy with me, as well as those of her successors. It's true that she was the first vote on ABR, but that is a safe place on a scum buddy's wagon to distance. When Tony replaced in, he played around with the wagon for awhile before finding other avenues to push. When Nero replaced in, he also avoided the ABR wagon. Nero also was playing extremely subpar and not in the way that I'd expect him to play as town. Emo's recent play is more of the same, including using Appeal to Majority to dismiss any scumreads of her. Personally, I can't see why so many people are townreading her.

Day 1 reasons refer to these right? Tebow addressed these issues during the whole emogirl wagon Day 1. Maestro refusing to unvote and the momentum from ABR and Chevre were fueling the wagon. Your case which Tebow was arguing that you were scum for pushing is the reason why you hung yourself on my slot this entire game? Your defence to this is saying that Tebow approaches the game differently than you?

@everyone, read the interactions between emogirl, tebow and bulbazak from day 1

[HighShroomish]

I've already read that shit storm twice. A third time would drive me insane. But you flipping out over bulba's thing with Garmr is either 1) Protecting your scum buddy or 2) trying to get town-cred for defending a townie. Neither situation is something I would think town would do.

[emogirl123]

Because she felt Garmr was a poor player who scum wouldn't be able to resist attacking, therefore the first person who tried to actually build a wagon on him was likely to be scum.

[emogirl123]

Bulba, I recall that you commented on my scum theatre act with Garmr. How about you comment now on my scum theatre act with ABR. The latter is way harder to pull off fyi.

[HighShroomish]

Because she felt Garmr was a poor player who scum wouldn't be able to resist attacking, therefore the first person who tried to actually build a wagon on him was likely to be scum.

Then where was your defense of Slandaar when ABR attacked him?

[Bulbazak]

Because she felt Garmr was a poor player who scum wouldn't be able to resist attacking, therefore the first person who tried to actually build a wagon on him was likely to be scum.

Garmr is not that poor of a player, btw.

Bulba, I recall that you commented on my scum theatre act with Garmr. How about you comment now on my scum theatre act with ABR. The latter is way harder to pull off fyi.

Scum theatre? I've already said that your vote on the wagon is the perfect position for distancing and that I don't think you anticpated it growing like it did. Your replacements' actions afterwards tell the story: They stayed away from that wagon.