MS Fantasy Camp 2: Reaper's Tale! (Finished!)

[Cerulean]

Hi!

VOTE: sangres

Do you remember your mission nacho? I'm going to default to empires read on you, so make it good!

Pedit: I was supposed to be first

[Cerulean]

Oh hey guys, this is actually going to be somewhat of an unpleasant game for me. Empire has informed me that I'm allowed to have fun in the first few pages of the game but then I have to put every one of my posts past him for approval. Something about him winning rising star makes him a mafia god and since I lost last year, I'm not good enough. When I reminded him that he asked to hydra with me, he said bitch don't talk back. That's right! Hes a cruel emperor. Poor me

Oh but oh oh oh, guys we're an informed townie. We know that at least one scum appears in a certain list. Hang on let me find the list. Oh that's right it's the entire player list! That is literally one of our abilities, we can Poe from the entire player list and know one anti-town player exists. How jealous are you the mod didn't tell you that?

[Cerulean]

"Mafiascum Fantasy Camp 2" more like "ty is relieved as heck and Six is going to start

whining

complaining

that I am too obvTown Camp 2".
Because puppies are

polite

and super cute and don't swear. At least not in their first posts.

Cerulean, ball's in your court. /)

Maybe we can reform tet plus six this game an have it be real this time and not achy braky heart like asoiaf. I'm leaving the read of you guys to empire, and after blowing up my phone last night in excitement and relief it dawned on him he's going to have to deal with paranoia from one corner, so you guys are supposed to read my posts (which are now going to be prewritten and approved by him so I'm not sure how that works, he's not a very well thought out overbearing despot)

[Cerulean]

I'm not necessarily sad I rolled town, but I sort of am?
This is a melancholy time for me.

Good good, start with something emotional sounding. I approve.

(It's a little flat in delivery though, mission won't go through so well unless you step it up.)

[Cerulean]

(which are now going to be prewritten and approved by him so I'm not sure how that works, he's not a very well thought out overbearing despot)

Wait what how is this supposed to work why would you do this Tammy you are a STRONG and INDEPENDENT woman you don't let no man control what you post come back here immediately.

I TOLD HIM THAT!

His response was that my gender was not the sticking point here. The sticking point was his rising star win and my loss. I can't really argue with that

[Cerulean]

TAMMY PLEASE HOLD ME
I DON'T CARE IF CAPS ARE SCUMMY OR NOT, I NEED THEM TO FAKE CONFIDENCW SO I CAN PRETEND I AM AFRAID OF EMPIRE

(please correctly read me as town before he does, please)

Even if I do get a read on you before he does, his reads are the only ones that matter this game according to the hydra contract he made me sign.

I am negotiating a one solo post per day allowance right now though!

[Cerulean]

You guys won't believe how happy I am that we drew town! All that noise last night was me excitedly high-fiving Penguin about our incredible luck drawing town in this playerlist.

~ F-16

I couldn't hear much last night over empires non stop text messages.

[Cerulean]

TAMMY PLEASE HOLD ME
I DON'T CARE IF CAPS ARE SCUMMY OR NOT, I NEED THEM TO FAKE CONFIDENCW SO I CAN PRETEND I AM AFRAID OF EMPIRE

(please correctly read me as town before he does, please)

Even if I do get a read on you before he does, his reads are the only ones that matter this game according to the hydra contract he made me sign.

I am negotiating a one solo post per day allowance right now though!

If you read me as town before he does it won't matter this game because I will get mislynched anyways.
But in postgame, I will post a and even a god king can fall.

I don't know what this means. Are you role playing your character or something?

[Cerulean]

OH!

[Cerulean]

You guys won't believe how happy I am that we drew town! All that noise last night was me excitedly high-fiving Penguin about our incredible luck drawing town in this playerlist.

~ F-16

I couldn't hear much last night over empires non stop text messages.

Are they of the "

Damn, we drew scum, we should have /in'd to replace like Regfan did, hopefully you can carry me with your awesome scumgame

" variety?

~ F-16

HOHOHO!

I've been trolling him for weeks about us drawing scum. I told him that our place as fourth was a guaranteed scum slot, and he actually looked at other games to point out that other games had number four as a town slot. I think I was getting to him.

~~~

LLD - your ability sound cool? I had to read it a few times to understand it. It sounds kinda like a gladiator but different? Empire is the one who is able to digest role stuff and I'm not really in the mood for actually thinking as I'm getting ready to head out for makeup, hair and shopping day and GIRLS JUST WANNA HAVE FUN. Empire probably won't be around until tomorrow night/Monday sometime as he's out of town for the weekend, so there's a good chance I won't talk to him about anything until then.

[Cerulean]

Hmm well sangres and LLD are unlikely to be partners unless they decided to do the yeah I'll pretend not to know who you are wink wink nudge nudge which seems unlikely. Maybe. I'll get back to you on that but first thought is not.

Toodles.

[Cerulean]

Hello friends. This is your GodKing Empire speaking.

I'm at a crappy hotel with really shaky internet access so this one is gonna be brief but...

sangres
Sixty
Zdenek
Flipping Awesome
LLD

If your name is on this list, I'm extending applications to The Own Brigade to you (Tammy left me a message saying F-16's entrance made her twitch but I disagree, will have to sort this out with her when we're both online).

This slot, though, needs to be terminated with extreme prejudice.

Unvote, vote: Tim Howard

[Cerulean]

That's ridiculous. Why is she not talking to me about it?
~ F-16

Uh, because she's not here? Duh?

[Cerulean]

Empire, why is Vi town?

I'll detail all the differences when I get more time/better internet but remember Vi in Black Flag Nightless vs. Vi in Yoloville? From what I remember, Vi's scumhunting is a lot more shallow as scum - he tends to just point out surface level contradictions in attempts to make his intended targets look bad and he's also just generally a lot less proactive. Here, he's more aggressive and his pushes show a lot more depth in thought than I've seen from him as scum in the past (a good example of what I'm talking about being #60 - the way the post is structured, it doesn't seem like he's trying to make you look bad but is putting the pressure on you to figure out your alignment).

Also, your townread on Tim Howard is lame and you should vote them with me.

P-edit: F-16, she left me that message after she had to stop posting in the thread, I assume to head to her class. Gonna have to bring it up with her when she's back.

[Cerulean]

EMPIRE GET YOUR AZURE ASS IN THIS GAME IMMEDIATELY

(Shh, don't tell her I've posted, it'll be funnier that way.)

And Nacho, I don't think it was a bad push to get the game going, sorry m8.
Also also, what does ffery think of F-16's entrance and his reaction to your push?

[Cerulean]

Well, I guess it's not really a "push" per se but you know what I mean.

[Cerulean]

I'm perfectly aware you are posting, Empire. I'm also perfectly aware that what you are posting doesn't actually count. To work, sir.

Hey look I realize I'm in the doghouse because of our last encounter, but I'm actually town this time.

Masturbatory effortwalls will come once I'm back home on my PC, so for now you have to put up with this bite size version of me. Disculpame.

[Cerulean]

I know that scum don't have a framer because I'm a framer.

Thought you all should know too.

this feels town.

[Cerulean]

I think. Um. I think.

I'll hold onto it until the end.

[Cerulean]

sup bitches

vote Cerulean

Bad vote. No soup for you!

~~~~

Also, Katsuki your caps make me feel twitchy!

[Cerulean]

Tammy seems pretty obviously town. Early game excitement and strong openings are something Tammy still feels uncomfortable pulling off as scum (or even attempting, really, and occasionally dumbs down her town game so that she can't be read in one post), so I'd probably light a puppy on fire if I thought she was scum. I probably won't ever mention this read again because it's sort of useless and only feeds her already uncontrollable ego, so please don't ask me about it and please don't call the slot scum.

I don't trash my town game? I did get tired of getting reaction tested based on my first post no matter what alignment I was because people don't realize my posts are mood and alignment dependent, and sometimes as town I'm not in the mood to make a grand entrance. I more wanted the reaction tests to stop because I don't think that it makes the game very pleasant for me or for anyone else when I melt down, and I think I'm just as easy to read without that and I want to be read on the things I do in the game not because I get mad.

[Cerulean]

I am much more obvtown than Tammy.
~ F-16

Dream On

[Cerulean]

Tammy's posts basically go like
"OMG everyone I'm Town!"
"Oh hey Empire says he's filtering all my posts."
speaking as someone who has been in a scum hydra with someone who's even more transparent than me, this is a huge red flag
"Oh hey I'm going to mention a joke Faraday put in our Role PM! That makes me so Town, right?"
...and various restatements of the above, followed by 51 and 77 which just take up so much space while trying to look so Town. Tammy wins the first "Child,

please

" of the game.

Yeah, I'm super happy about it too!

Um. I. I. I uh don't really know how to respond to that. I think I would probably find this a really scummy reaction to what I think could only be taken as a joke about empire's ego growing after winning a scummy, but in Book of Shadows I trolled the early game with a ridiculous joke and only town took me seriously and voted me over it, so I'm just going to sit in my corner perplexed.

...that is literally one of our abilities. We can POE it! Like I think it's hilarious that we got such a useless ability, but uh it doesn't make us town. We're town because we're town, but in Faraday's upicks roles are created then alignments, so no that's not what I was doing. It's just hilarious.

[Cerulean]

You think Empire is actually filtering Tammy's posts?

Obviously not yet.

That said, if this is a joke I've yet to get, I would not be a bit surprised, but etc.

[Cerulean]

Am I all alone tonight? Taxes suck, my cat is adorable, and I'm now understanding the messages I got this afternoon concerning "obnoxiousness" being a town tell for nacho.

[Cerulean]

can someonet ell me who i should sheep i dont wanna read those first pages

*twitch*

[Cerulean]

Well, I'm here. You have yet to mention a thing I would talk to you about.
I'm purposely avoiding adding to the landfill. If you want something, ask.

I like your new avatar! Redheads make me happy

[Cerulean]

Unfortunately, no.

The posts are great and all, but do you actually have anything to say?

Probably not!

[Cerulean]

That's ridiculous. Why is she not talking to me about it?
~ F-16

Uh, because she's not here? Duh?

No, I meant talk to me when she was here earlier.
~ F-16

Empire and I are going to have a talk about his planned filtering of my posts and come to a different agreement if he's not going to actually bother to relay my entire actual thoughts. (Also, I saw later that he said I was at class?!? I've been talking about my total girlie day for weeks and apparently he hasn't been listening.) I didn't say anything when I was here because I didn't think of it and it didn't register. I was getting ready to leave when posting earlier and wasn't putting much thought into things, just having fun interacting with people. However, as I was walking out the door, I was like WAIT A SECOND! didn't Falcon enter Attack on Titan saying he was happy about being town or something? and then I remembered when metaing you during that game I found a scum game that was still going on in which you hydrad with someone, but I'm not sure of the game, that you had entered the game in a similar way, so I quickly posted to empire that it was something I wanted to look back at to make sure of because it could be the sign of something.

I do like your response to me though, but I know my weaknesses and wanting you to be town is one of them. I don't know why you wouldn't expect for me to want to be sure.

[Cerulean]

VOTE: Sixty

Yeah I'm totally not about to deal with that same fuck ass obnoxious bullshit you pulled on me in blackflag.

Eat shit and die.

[Cerulean]

Like I am not, totally am not, going to allow you to ruin this game for me.

[Cerulean]

Empire and I are going to have a talk about his planned filtering of my posts and come to a different agreement if he's not going to actually bother to relay my entire actual thoughts. (Also, I saw later that he said I was at class?!? I've been talking about my total girlie day for weeks and apparently he hasn't been listening.) I didn't say anything when I was here because I didn't think of it and it didn't register. I was getting ready to leave when posting earlier and wasn't putting much thought into things, just having fun interacting with people. However, as I was walking out the door, I was like WAIT A SECOND! didn't Falcon enter Attack on Titan saying he was happy about being town or something? and then I remembered when metaing you during that game I found a scum game that was still going on in which you hydrad with someone, but I'm not sure of the game, that you had entered the game in a similar way, so I quickly posted to empire that it was something I wanted to look back at to make sure of because it could be the sign of something.

I do like your response to me though, but I know my weaknesses and wanting you to be town is one of them. I don't know why you wouldn't expect for me to want to be sure.

I know I did it in Attack on Titan and ETL's Resistance (that must have been the game you meta'd), in AOT, I was buddying you and Pieguyn and in the other game, it was RedCoyote. But it is not something that's alignment indicative for me and I've done it plenty of times offsite when I was town (especially when FourTrouble played with me), we usually opened by asking each other if we were town to see the response and then moved from there so we pretty much had to do it as scum to fit the pattern. We also spent plenty of time saying we were happy to be town, I'll give you the links if you want.

It is not so much calling myself town which I could do as either alignment but the genuineness in my tone and you are one of the people that I expected to pick up on it because you know when I am being genuine. I'd understand if I had an off game or entered badly or kept some of my thoughts to myself etc. But here, I just jumped into the thread totally being myself and completely transparent about everything when I started talking to you and Nacho so I guess I expected something more a "twitch" although there seems to be more to it than that.

Pedit: Guys, chill. Tierce, I found Tammy's catchups useful so far so just ignore them if you don't want to read them I guess.

~ F-16

Tone was the main things I wanted to look back at. I wanted to compare your tone in those games to your tone in this one and see if it meant anything. I had left that message to empire partly as a reminder to myself and partly for something for him to look at to make sure that I wasn't giving too easy of a read to you.

[Cerulean]

...Except in Blackflag I was pretty obviously trying to appease you and ~*~play nice~*~ while here I want you to shut up because you're being annoying, pretty obviously tired, distracted and whoooooooosh and not actually producing content. It's a weekend night. You're not contributing to the game (cut by Shadoweh), you're not going to be getting any better as the night goes on, and the last I heard from my partner was frustration about your empty posting. So yeah, I'm pissed off and telling you with all the letters to shut up and stop posting.

Whatever,

I

am going to bed.


PEdit: I'm not trying to get her to calm down, I'm trying to get her to

shut up

, counterproductive as it apparently is~ 11 pages less than 24 hours in, do you think anyone is actually going to read them? No.

No problem!

mod - cerulean is now empire

you can fuck off.

[Cerulean]

This is Empire speaking. I'm still trying to figure out what the status of my slot is going to be but, worst case scenario, I'll just continue the game on my own. As far as what happened goes, it happened, there's no point in dwelling on it (this goes to you, Nacho). Not in the best mood but I'm just going to move on from here.

It gives her hives when he does it as town too, so no cigar.

Way to completely miss the point of my post. I wanted ffery to engage me directly, and while your posts are nice and cool and all, it occurred to me that she's not really been very active in the thread (as far as I can tell). From what I remember, ffery's favorite part of the game is the early portion of it so it seems a bit out of character as both alignments for her not to be around and partake in it. The point is that I

am wussing out and want to read the easier head

want her to show me she's not dead and dive in a bit more.

Empire, elaborate on the purpose of your first post please. In the meantime, this.

Ask me again in about 5 pages and then I'll answer (maybe even earlier depending on how impatient I get).

In related news...

Unvote, vote: Tim Howard

---

@Venmar:

Hello! You have asked to take part in this short questionnaire! Please answer the following:
1) If you thought Nacho was playing to neither his town game nor his scum game and this is "a grey area that makes [you] twitch" (#264), why the unvote and the backing off of the hydra in general?
2) If you pride yourself on moving at your own pace and doing your own thing, why does UT's read/reasons for the read on my slot seem to factor so heavily on your decision regarding whether to vote my slot at all?

@F-16:

I'll engage your wall/reads later when I'm back from dinner.

[Cerulean]

- Because I no longer wanted to vote for someone I didn't fully think was scum? When someone hits a grey area I tend to back off. I'm quite sure I said this wasn't just Nacho too, but also the Sangres hydra as a whole.

The problem is that I don't see any proactive measure from your part in trying to figure out sangres's alignment. When confronted with some sort of greyness from another player, there's some sort of impetus or drive to want to go in and sort that out and I'm not seeing that at all from you. In that context, your entire approach to the slot comes off as opportunistic (particularly the backing off once the sangres wagon died down).

- What..? I said I do my own thing, does that mean what other people say can't factor into my own stuff?

That's not even remotely what I was saying. UT's opinion evidently matters so much to you that it apparently makes you want to not vote my slot, despite not having a read on UT yourself (if you do, what is that read?). It seems like an excuse to not vote for fear of getting the same flak from it that you did from the sangres one.

What do you think about our early-ish wagon? What do you think about xReckoner jumping onto it apparently after reading up to the point where it was at its height?

I already mentioned it back in #168, but I thought the early wagon was fine to get the game going and get Real Conversation started. Do you want me to start talking about specific voters or...? As far as Reck is concerned, I didn't see his vote as opportunistic, just lazy, which is unfortunately null for him.
While you're around, what are your updated thoughts on F-16 since Nacho told me his stuff gave you hives and what are your thoughts on Venmar?

F-16, going to have to take a rain check on talking about your reads. I wasn't really in the mood for mafia today at all.

[Cerulean]

What are your thoughts on F-16 and Venmar?

And what do you think of katsuki?

I'd really would rather table the Venmar discussion from my end 'til about 1-2 more pages but at the risk of tipping my hand, I'd recommend you read this (the games are rather old but the meta might very well still be accurate).
Katsuki has exactly one towntell that I have for him and it's more a body-of-work kind of thing than anything specific. Gun to my head, I'd say he's town but not super confident on this read.

[Cerulean]

Oh, and I still think F-16 is town via his entrance into the game/his general tone/the way he approaches interactions with players I know he'd be afraid of as scum.

[Cerulean]

Honestly, I'm just about the last person you should ever ask for a read on Shadoweh (I was really hoping to sheep Tammy here), but she got some minor townpoints from me for #268 (feeling some sort of indignation for being treated invisible and basically demanding people pay attention to her scumhunting is something I'd think is more likely to come from town generally and I think especially so from her).

[Cerulean]

Meh, she knows that you and I would go looking for it and that at least I am not her scumbuddy, so it's not a particularly hard thing to fake. I'm going for actions more than for words.

Then you're going to have to run by me what you're seeing there because, as far as her actions go, I don't see anything that would push me one way or the other. I've tried in the past to come up with a framework for what she'd do as town vs. what she'd do as scum and I got nothing so I end up resorting to trying to read her by things like tone, introspection, etc.

Please can someone explain to me how Cerulean's posts are coming off as remotely pro-town, because I just don't see it. A lot of what they've posted is useless fluff, and I was under the impression that both Empire and Tammy posted better than that in general. *shrug*.

This has to be the most absurd misrepresentation of our posts I've seen in a long while and I've seen some serious bullshit in my time playing this game. There are 38 posts in our collective ISO and I'd wager at least half of them are actual content (giving reads, questioning other players, etc.). Meanwhile, most of your reads have either gone completely unexplained (and I have a hard time believing you have a townread on Plum based off of only those two posts) or accompanied by flat statements like "their posts are bad" (this is a call for more elaboration, on the townreads especially, please).

Vote: Curelean

God, I just love it when scum completely fold under the crushing weight of my arguments, it doesn't happen much anymore and it really makes the blood flow through my murderdick (hello kuribo egosearch).
I really wish I had two votes.

---

@Reck:

I don't agree at all that Zdenek's early claim is a scumtell for him, for a couple of reasons:
1) Zdenek is...no offense to him, but a bit out there as town and his reasoning that he'd want to inform the town that scum do not have a framer in #443 is something that fits within that Zdenek-town framework (he did something similar in Marketplace Mafia 3, although that game was a bit different due to the mechanics).
2) This one is especially WIFOM-heavy but early D1 claims like that (miller claims, for example) are usually discussed pre-game and I think this roster as a whole is competent enough that someone would have told him to claim compulsive framer for the cred.

P-edit: If we're going to talk about compromising, I'd much prefer Venmar over UT.

[Cerulean]

Good news: I got some messages from Tammy this morning saying she'll be back either tonight or tomorrow and that she just needed to step back and take a break (which is good because I have a ton of work I need to get done today myself >_> ). Sorry for the confusion that it caused and hopefully things will be cool from here on out.

Blink-skimming suggested Venmar as dumb Town. But I'm going to be spending the evening reading the thread so etc. You really should consider UT though, at least enough to drop the "much".

It seems we're at an impasse then. My impression of UT is that he gives significantly less of a shit about the game as scum, at least from memory, and while the logic behind his pushes hasn't been super great, he's trying more than I'd expect him to as scum. Tammy told me she has some markers for him that she's looking for and she hasn't really seen them yet so we can do better than this.

Like so:

Unvote, vote: Shadoweh

Empire I'm a little surprised that a mere 3 posts seems sufficient to satisfy your concerns that the thread had a glaring lack of ffery.

Honestly, the glaring lack of ffery is still in the back of my mind but I didn't feel like pursuing it further because your posts still read town, there's some other stuff worth looking into (though Tim Howard not posting is kinda dragging things for me), and if ffery's going to lurkscum her way through the game I'll find out eventually.

Ironically, one of the messages Tammy left for me this morning said she didn't like that yesterday the only thing ffery did was pop in to ask that question about the miller from the ASoIaF UPick but not actually engage in the framer debate but she'll have more to say about that whenever she's ready to come back and post.

[Cerulean]

I may as well claim some more stuff since I'm being asked so strongly to frame Chamber, the frame is one shot and once I've framed someone he shows up as guilty to investigations permanently.

Uh, if this is the case, then what about using the frame on a consensus obvtownread (I'd suggest Sixty for this)? The slot in question, 1) wouldn't get copped anyway, 2) would essentially become investigation immune and we'd avoid using it on scum.

[Cerulean]

Because I was thinking it's the safest option.

P-edit: And using it on chamber makes more sense, actually, since he can tell who's targeting him.

[Cerulean]

It would basically make you waste the shot on someone who's unequivocally town. On the off chance that I'm wrong about you being town, it takes the shot out of play by making sure it goes to someone unlikely to be investigated.

P-edit: ...this has to be the first time in a long while I mistook the posters of a hydra =/

[Cerulean]

EBWOP: "on someone who's generally considered unequivocally town"

[Cerulean]

Okay I'm going to ramble a bit and you just have to excuse me becaue I actually had a cupcake and coffee tonight and I'm kinda tweaking over here from it, so!

Anyway, I am sorry for any confusion over our slot. My need for a break for mafia and the drama has been building for some time and this weekend just kinda pushed it over the brink.

BUT anyway, I'm not really caught up on the whole thread as I've pretty much just been reading a page here and there but I will get fully caught up tomorrow and maybe have some thought sthat make a bit more sense than the ones I'm about to spew.

First things first though: Sixty, I don't think my posting was empty, I had a reason for nearly every thing that I did post and early game I do have a tendency to be all over the place and fluff post. It kinda surprised me that Vi would get so frsutrated with me considering I'd thought of him as pretty easy going and hasn't given me a hard time in the past for my early kind of aimless posting. I wasn't trying to be funny the other night. Okay, maybe my quoting seinfeld at UT and posting a song to falcon was me amusing myself, but I can only imagine the criticism I received was due to my reaction to Vi and I was just a little more than confused there. Before I left for the day, your slot had posted that I was a strong independent woman and I shouldn't let empire dictate my posts. I thought that meant taht you got my joke and were joking in return, so when I got home and saw the post about red flags because of filtered posting, I was at a complete loss. My knee jerk reaction was that you guys were scum going for a very strange angle, because I couldn't imagine that anyone tangentially aware of the way I play the early game, of empire and my interactions, or just of empire as a person could take that seriously. But that didn't feel right, and as I said I made a really ridiculous joke in Book of Shadows and only town took me seriously and I spent too much time thinking town was scum for their reaction. That and Empire had texted me that he was pretty confident of you guys being town, so I just was lost. But I did want you to react to that post because sometimes scum decide to make a push that they're unable to back down on, and I kinda hoped that your reaction to me pointing out that it was a joke would make me feel better about your alignment. Now a few posts after I made that statement, Vi interacted with Nacho and pointed out that it might have been a joke he didn't get. Thank you for apologizing and I'm sorry too. I wasn't being obnoxious to begin with or meaning to; I was just confused. And my response to you to eat shit and die was the player not the person, I hope you know that. (FTR telling me to shut up is one of the easiest ways to push my buttons, unless I'm being a bitch and I know I'm being a bitch, then I understand it.) Anyway hugs and all that jazz.

What do you think of reck? Early in the game I was about to profess a demand for his blood to the blood gods because I thought he was about to go on his apathetic game that people would write off as town but I've seen him pull as scum but then he started that whole thing up with zdenek about the framer yesterday and now I'm not so sure.

Also did noone seriously but me have a problem with Kanye's first post? I mean empire didn't say anything about it either so maybe I'm smoking crack but when I twitch at something I'm not actually giving the player a hug, it's something that legimitately is bothering me but right after I posted that I got after for empty posting and I haven't seen anyone respond to that so really nothing anyone? bueller? bueller?

Shadoweh - There are a couple reasons we're voting you, but we're going to hold on to that for a minute to see if anyone else sees what we see.

And OH due to yesterday's framer discussion debate:

FOR FUTURE REFERENCE: Seriously people, print this out, post it near your computer, something anything, but please don't argue about this again. In Faraday upicks, he puts together the flavor AND the roles first, then randomizes alignments, then does any tweaking necessary. So yes, a framer could be town. A cop could be scum. I've played a faraday game in which the scum team was giving a one shot cop role while town had two flavor cops. I played in a game in which scum was a miller. Make sure you keep this in mind when anaylzing roles and the setup.

Um I felt like there was more I was going to comment on, so maybe later.

Oh oh oh that's right, I told Empire that I had a few markers for how to read UT and unfortunately he didn't respond to my response to his vote on us as I was looking for something there, but I GUESS I CAN WAIT.

[Cerulean]

Anyway, I am sorry for any confusion over our slot. My need for a break for mafia and the drama has been building for some time and this weekend just kinda pushed it over the brink.

Oh my god, I think I lost track of how many times you said stuff like this?

It must suck to only have one finger and still not be able to count to one.

Oh hey, how much of the posting did you do in chef mafia?

[Cerulean]

Also did noone seriously but me have a problem with Kanye's first post?

People saying that they're not reading bits of the thread seems like pretty standard stuff to me.

But iirc Kanye gets his best reads from the first few pages of the game. Empire says that he thought it was just MattP, but I'm pretty sure it's Kanye too. In the Wizards game, this bothered me too and I let it go, but I'm pretty sure this just isn't ordinary for kanye.

[Cerulean]

kindly amuse me by voting someone else, but with

feeling

this time.

COULD NOT BE HELPED.

[Cerulean]

...Really. That's your problem? I'm not going to search for games where the town PR's flipped blue instead of green for you, you know they exist, and from my first comment on him I obviously don't think blue is the natural fucking color for Town. So you're voting me because you think I'm stupid. Screw you.

You are breaking my heart.

[Cerulean]

Oh my god, I think I lost track of how many times you said stuff like this?

It must suck to only have one finger and still not be able to count to one.

Um

Good news: I got some messages from Tammy this morning saying she'll be back either tonight or tomorrow and that she just needed to step back and take a break (which is good because I have a ton of work I need to get done today myself >_> ).

Sorry for the confusion that it caused and hopefully things will be cool from here on out.

Anyway, I am sorry for any confusion over our slot. My need for a break for mafia and the drama has been building for some time and this weekend just kinda pushed it over the brink.

That's two, but that's just a skim, and I saw

similar

shit too.

I didn't do much of the posting in Chef Mafia. The parts I did are very obvious.[/quote]

I don't get your point? We're a hydra, so it makes sense that we'd say somethign similar? Empire didn't have any idea if I'd be back because I took a break from the site for a few days, and even though we talk pretty much every day as we're friends he still hadn't heard from me.

Hmmm

~~~


nacho/ffery - early thoughts on venmar?

[Cerulean]

Says the giant blue square. Stop playing hanabi and read everything I've posted at once, then apologize profusely for voting me to the point of rage and vote scum. If you don't think that was genuine enough I can work up some more open disgust just for you.

I really don't think Sixty's puppy costume is relevant to the mafia. Neither is UT's taking pot-shots at them for possibly being wrong. Other then more buddying to Reck. I think I've come to terms with actually thinking you're scum for this. I would have preferred to agree about the Reck wagon, but I'm kind of sold on him being town atm.

VOTE: Untrod Tripod

faraday went to bed two hours ago and ended hanabi cuz he's a loser

i want to see you work up some open disgust. I want to see you mad instead of saying you'll be mad. I want you to make me believe you're town, but more and more shadoweh I just don't think that's possible.

I *do* believe that Reck is more than likely town though.

[Cerulean]

Also, nacho, when you get back here. I'd really love your thougths on shadoweh. Please and thank you.

[Cerulean]

Ugh I feel checked out of this game.

~ F-16

*twitch*

[Cerulean]

Ugh I feel checked out of this game.

~ F-16

*twitch*

I'll take your *twitch* and raise you a *sigh*

I see your *sigh* and let one tear drip slowly down my cheek.

[Cerulean]

i want to see you work up some open disgust. I want to see you mad instead of saying you'll be mad. I want you to make me believe you're town, but more and more shadoweh I just don't think that's possible.

Well unfortunately for you I'm feeling more inclined to delete my all-caps responses about how if you think I wasn't mad yesterday you aren't reading me and are NOT GOOD at mafia. You can take your scumread and stick it up your ass.

Cut: STOP SPAM POSTING USELESS SHIT.

Shadoweh, I love you even if you're breaking my heart

[Cerulean]

Okay, that made me laugh and you know what that means to people that make me laugh in mafia?

IT MAKES YOU FALL ALSEEP?!?!?!?!?!?!??!


(or it means they're town )

[Cerulean]

nacho/ffery - early thoughts on venmar?

I think Nacho will have a little time for this game tomorrow. I was expecting to have more time as well, but we'll see how it goes I guess.

I have never played with scum-Venmar, and it's been a while since I did a meta scan. So, I have a town-Venmar model that's probably a little sketchy and no scum-Venmar model at all. Nacho and I recently helped get him mislynched in a PoE situation where we both really thought he'd looked pretty town earlier in the game. To me, in this game so far, Venmar is coming off pretty similar to Xenosaga in tone, level of involvement, etc.

But, to a large extent I depended on Nacho's meta read in that game, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if Nacho sees an issue or two that I don't.

However, it will surprise me quite a bit if Nacho changes his mind about Katsuki given what he's posted this week.

Does Empire have an opinion on Venmar?

Empire is pretty strongly in the Venmar is scum camp. He'd probably be voting venmar if it weren't for us thinking we have stronger reasons for thinking Shadoweh is scum. (Also, this is empire's scum read and not mine pinky swear so noone can disimiss it as tammy is omgusing someone who is scum reading her for the most stupid reason ever!)

[Cerulean]

Okay so, Empire and I just had a serious discussion and we decided we're NOT going to sue Nero Cain for "blue" copyright infringement issues. We think that we can both cohabitate here peacefully as long as he doesn't start yelling at me.

(empire might not have been part of the discussion and i might just have decided Nero's town.)

[Cerulean]

Empire: paranoia or not on your first post, I don't trust those tactics (if in a select few, then not in you).

I was going to wait for Tim Howard to respond to the stuff I directed at them in #450 but I'm bored and I'm getting impatient so I'll just talk about my opening now. The purpose behind it is two-fold:
1) One of the things I learned almost immediately starting off here is that coming up with a townbloc and being able to suffocate the scum via PoE is a big deal. The whole point of me outing those townreads early is to try and see if I can start up the process soon so we can all work together more quickly (it helps that a bunch of us have played multiple games together). I haven't had as much time to put towards that as I would have liked due to a deadly combination of Hanabi addiction and a flurry of RL stuff this week but I have plenty of time to do it so I'm not feeling rushed.
2) The Tim Howard vote early on was half for pressure and half because I actually suspected them at the time. The sangres vote in particular by quadz was something that rubbed me the wrong way as he did a similar kind of thing with the elleheathen wagon in the ASoIaF UPick where he was my scumbuddy. It was something minor at the time but combined with the fact that both heads of that hydra are pretty readable when pushed, the vote definitely seemed like a really good way to speed up trying to figure out their alignment. After that, well, their collective activity level hasn't been great (especially now that their wagon has died down) and all of my other problems with the slot have been outlined in #450.

Blue is plausible as a Town color

This is my issue, and I don't see why no one else sees it?

I see it! (Hint: this is why I'm voting her, I thought she was pretty town before that post, too.)

We'll be around synching and all tonight, but in the meantime, someone asked if I'd played with Katsuki before. Yes, in Anything Goes, and while I paid more attention to mastin in that hydra (where they were scum) nothing here is inconsistent with scum-Katsuki, so I'm not inclined to ignore his lack of scum hunting. I also recall him being more relevantly engaged under an alt in Mini 1551, so I believe in his ability to play in such a way as town.

My understanding of Katsuki's meta is completely different. In fact, I'd wager him being more into scumhunting is more likely to come from him as scum (you should read this game and let me know what you guys think). Every time I've seen him play as town, he just openly and blatantly doesn't give much of a shit about the game and only really responds directly to the people who accuse him (aka, the Benmage meta). There's a huge difference in activity level as scum too - in Anything Goes, he was constantly in the midst of things and on top of the game. I'll dive more into his stuff after this weekend when I get some more time, but this is what I have on a superficial review of his games.

I *do* believe that Reck is more than likely town though.

Empire is pretty strongly in the Venmar is scum camp.

Do tell.

I talked with Tammy a bit about Reck and she told me that she thinks Reck doesn't sound at all like her Red Wedding scumbuddy in this game and I can see why just in terms of effort level. She told me that's what she was trying to suggest when she thought he was scum at first since he was just kinda mailing it in and being super lazy but now that he's trying a bit she doesn't really feel that way anymore.

As far as Venmar goes, uh...frankly, I don't really get why you guys don't see it? I've already outlined most of my issues with the slot in #362 but I just wanted to add that he's sure spending a lot of effort responding to/refuting every single one of Nero Cain's posts and none of mine, probably because Nero Cain's way easier to argue against and discredit.

I'm out tonight and tomorrow so I'll be back at some point Sunday night/Monday morning to work some more on this game.

[Cerulean]

I *do* believe that Reck is more than likely town though.

Empire is pretty strongly in the Venmar is scum camp.

Do tell.

I talked with Tammy a bit about Reck and she told me that she thinks Reck doesn't sound at all like her Red Wedding scumbuddy in this game and I can see why just in terms of effort level. She told me that's what she was trying to suggest when she thought he was scum at first since he was just kinda mailing it in and being super lazy but now that he's trying a bit she doesn't really feel that way anymore.

...so these are words, and there are capital letters at the beginnings of the strings and periods at the ends, but the stuff in the middle doesn't actually make any sense. Tammy thought Reck was scum because he was "just kinda mailing it in" and you could see why she thought that he WASN'T scum in this game given his lack of activity in this game but now that he's kind of barely not mailing it in this game she doesn't feel that way any more.

No. I originally thought he was scum based on what looked to be his apathetic townie shtick. That felt like my Red Wedding partner and like his Team Mafia self when he played up the too lazy and apathetic to be scum thing. However, he did start reading the game and commenting on it, which while it's not obvtown levels of Reck like from Baltomeet, it doesn't remind me of my scum partner from Red Wedding, and his tone is more reminiscent of The Reckoning game that just ended where he was town.

[Cerulean]

combined with the fact that both heads of that hydra are pretty readable when pushed,

Have we played together? I've barely played for like a year, and I don't recall playing with either of your heads (Nexus). This comment makes me uneasy unless you can give me some meta - (unless of course you're going to turn around and say you've been reading all my old games in which case wow)

Also, to reiterate Quadz's point - I don't do the whole elaborating on town reads very often, and I'm not going to do it for someone who I think is scum. Sorry about that.

In other news, I need to re-read the game. So I'm going to do that.

You have! I (Tammy) played with you in Abarat, though I don't think you posted much, in Mafiastuck, though I don't think you posted much, and in Red Wedding. I think that's all. Empire was in Mafiastuck as well. I don't know if he's played with you in any other games, but I do know he read Red Wedding and Abarat, and he reads a lot of games he's not in though he'll have to expand on his statement when he gets back in town.

[Cerulean]

...Really. That's your problem? I'm not going to search for games where the town PR's flipped blue instead of green for you, you know they exist, and from my first comment on him I obviously don't think blue is the natural fucking color for Town. So you're voting me because you think I'm stupid. Screw you.

Shadoweh though can you explain your thought process here? Because like I could see you throwing out the blue is a pr theory or even thinking he was an IC base on the blue color. But, you didn't seem to pick up why people immediately started suspecting you right after that. And then this post in which you talk about the color green seems to suggest that you still didn't pick up on it. It would probably be different if you'd said your statement above and thrown in "or red in this case" because when you're town with a red role pm it's not something that you really forget.

[Cerulean]

I'm so very sorry you drew scum Shadoweh.

[Cerulean]

I'm glad talking to you is an open process in which you try to actually read what I say, possibly by comparing it to past games in some sort of, hmm what would they call it, remembering instead of deciding that I'm fake-raging at you. Actually I'm going to address one other thing you said because it's irritating me so much.

Because like I could see you throwing out the blue is a pr theory or even thinking he was an IC base on the blue color. But, you didn't seem to pick up why people immediately started suspecting you right after that. And then this post in which you talk about the color green seems to suggest that you still didn't pick up on it.

No, I hadn't "picked up" on it, I had no idea what any of you were talking about until one of you outright told me. Do you not understand -why- I didn't 'pick up' on an apparent scumslip I made? (why would I notice a 'scumslip' IF IM NOT FUCKING SCUM STUPID) The 'you should have added red to the end' sounds like something I would do as scum though, just to remind everyone that I -totally- remember what my role pm looks like teehee.

Yes, I do think you sound like you're fake raging at me. You're reminding me of the aia/vista game right now and quite frankl I have no idea why you are yelling at me. It's either fake raging at me or you're the second coming of mollie, and in have no desire to deal with either one. I also just really don't get you this game. You yelling at me at falcon for our interaction last night make so sense because really what is your problem?

I didn't persecute you over this, I asked for your thought process so I could, oh I don't know, get a better read on you.

[Cerulean]

I wish I could say I feel strongly about something this game. Aside from my artificially amped-up but still sincere desire to lynch NS, there's not much. Except for not buying/caring about the Shadoweh line of inquiry at the moment. It's not doing anything for me. And if Tammy's approach to it came from anyone but Tammy I'd be all over it, but since it's Tammy, I'm giving it a little too much leeway.

Do I need to do the scummy thing and MAKE A CASE on NS for things to happen, though?

Do I?

Sixty - when your scumlist isn't 10 people long I'll consider worrying about whether I'm on it. Not that I blame you particularly for that fact. This game.

I have no idea how to take that, and yeah build a case on NS as at the very least it could help to get a read on you.

[Cerulean]

@Tammy

However, he did start reading the game and commenting on it, which while it's not obvtown levels of Reck like from Baltomeet, it doesn't remind me of my scum partner from Red Wedding, and his tone is more reminiscent of The Reckoning game that just ended where he was town.

And now that he's not in imminent danger, he's acting like...

---

Tone doesn't change. I already went through this in the reckoning and I'm going to draw a line in the sand here. I was right there even though people tried to lynch him. I feel like I'm right here too.

Where is tierce and how come she's not posting? I feel like she'd at least understand where I'm coming from.

Also @Tammy

My hydra partner would like to say that even if Shadoweh is scum - which I personally am not unconvinced of - the current line of questioning is really dumb. Instead, let's talk about this.

We already tried that Tim Howard thing. Apparently powerlurking is the new way to be obvtown.

I can hear my inner Goofball wanting blood for this scumplaining.

Hey I'm not going to argue about you thinking some other reason for someone I think is scummy is scummy. If you want to say mine are dumb while finding some of your own then potato potato, scum gets lynched and I'm happy.

[Cerulean]

Tammy, what are your thoughts on UT?

Jury's out on UT. I really was hoping he'd respond to my response to his vote on us because I was looking for something there. The reckoning gave me a better insight to him as town and some markers to look for. I feel like I can nail it down with more info.

What are your thoughts on him?

[Cerulean]

Where is tierce and how come she's not posting? I feel like she'd at least understand where I'm coming from.

ty has been here and Six's posts are being run through ty for ObvTown Seal of Approval (Plum not included). ty has otherwise not been posting because she's busy digging bones up and chasing frisbees.

ty also finds it remarkably crappy that your "tone" read on Shadoweh comes from Otherworld when there are so many other more developed scumoweh games to draw from, especially those you played in

and were Town in

.


ty is going to sleep and dream of games of fetch and nipping at whiny people's ankles.

Tammy finds it remarkably unenlightened that you can't be bothered to look at a whole argument in total. Considering that that game is the last one in which I experienced fake shadoweh rage, and am comparing it to there. But, please do feel free to tell me what town game her "rage" feels similar to because I'm at a loss about that.

Why are you at the same time saying you don't see shadoweh as town telling me her rage should be compared to a town game because quite frankly this entire post reads like nonsense and you should speak English.

[Cerulean]

"THe second coming of mollie." You shouldn't be proud of tunneling Town for an entire game because they made you angry. I'm glad we've confirmed you don't actually care what alignment I am though. I don't remember talking to you in the aia/vista game, or much of that game at all because I'm p sure I made like three posts before getting lynched. And gave up rather quickly. Maybe you should try a more recent scum game, like the one that just finished.

Shadoweh I love you but I took a break from mafia for a reason, and whatever this vitriol you're spewing over being asked a simple question is part of it. Like I literally have no idea what you're problem is, but I have no interest at all in interacting with you until you can act somewhat like a rational human. I think that my question to you more than indicates that I do care about your alignment.

Like you are literally literally proving my point about you being the second coming of mollie. I spent an entire game dealing with her vitriol. This game started with hostility being directed at me from sixty and I refuse to deal with it coming from you too.

You let me know in your next post if you can interact with me like a normal person. I will more than gladly give up the reigns to empire to deal with this fucking bullshit because I refuse to spend another game with mega hostility over simple questions.

[Cerulean]

Oh, and Empire, I was in that Death Note game you linked for Katsuki. Part of my meta-scum read came from that but I am not as certain anymore so I'll post more thoughts on that in a bit.

I look forward to reading this because nacho was pretty sure this was katsuki's scum game, and I haven't seen anything since his last post that suggests he's wrong. But, I might very well miss something significant there.

I've been kinda coasting waiting to synch with nacho about this game. About ready to forge onward without him.

I'd like to see you do that. How often do you wait for nacho?

[Cerulean]

Holy shit shadoweh you don't even think I'm scum, so what is your fucking problem?

[Cerulean]

Okay shadowed you're right. I totally didn't ask you to explain your thought process and told you what it looked like from my point of view. I'm totally the one that told you to suck my balls for literally no reason whatsoever. that was totally me. You're right. I'm wrong.

I'm also fucking done.

[Cerulean]

Why would it be making you upset that I'm trying to figure out your thought process so that I can figure out your alignment and see where you were coming from with that???

Like I can't understand your reaction to me at all??? Or your bloody attitude period.

But WHATEVER. I've had it up to *-* with the damn hostility and condescension in games lately and your attitude coupled with sixty's is fucking atrocious and I"m done. Empire is taking this from here on out. I just don't have it in me to deal with this fucking bullshit anymore. So cuss him out. I'm over it.

[Cerulean]

Empire, if you could be around tomorrow at any time you decree, that'd be great.

I've been skimming the thread in between job searching and I should have time later tonight to post more substantial things as I (finally) have nothing in my way for now...look at around 9:30 PM EST if that works for you?

[Cerulean]

He's in my potential scum by PoE pool but I don't have a read on him independently of that. I've only skimmed his stuff and I have some questions for him but I'm going to hold on to them 'til later when I have more time to actually sit down and read more closely.

P-edit: ...that was actually one of the things I was going to ask about =/

[Cerulean]

Above p-edit was re: Zdenek's 850, sorry.

[Cerulean]

I'm here. Before I catch up in the thread and do other stuff I wanted to do with this game, I ISO'd kanye and wanted to leave these questions here for him to answer (please and thanks ):

1) When you tried to wagon Sixty at the beginning of the game, did you get any reads off of it? What is your current read on Sixty?
2) What differences are you seeing between Shadoweh as town in the ASoIaF U-Pick and Shadoweh in this game? Any thoughts on Shadoweh's comments regarding the town color in this game?
3) Explain your strong townread on Katsuki.

Also, really want the answer to Zdenek's question especially.

[Cerulean]

Have we played together? I've barely played for like a year, and I don't recall playing with either of your heads (Nexus). This comment makes me uneasy unless you can give me some meta - (unless of course you're going to turn around and say you've been reading all my old games in which case wow)

Well, then, get ready to say wow. Just off the top of my head, I've read Mafiastuck (I was in this game as part of a hydra with petapan, we died N1), Abarat 2, Red Wedding, UK Scummers Invitational, and Breaking Bad. All of those games were ongoing at the time I read them - whenever I'm bored/have nothing to do/feel like procrastinating, I usually end up reading games I'm not in as a way to test my scumhunting because it's fun.

The first Harry Potter game had Penguin and CDB as scumbuddies. I read it a few months ago. The second Harry Potter game had all of me, Penguin and CDB as town and he was fairly obvious town there. BUT, I was more confident in my read there than I am here. The other town games were ones that I followed but want to go back and re-read. Assuming we solidify our read on CDB, we are willing to take his word on Nexus/Quadz for D1. Katsuki is a more major project and I've played a few games with him and spectated others so I'll figure out where I stand after looking through these games.

@ Ffery

, I am looking forward to discussing his meta too. I see you played a lot of games with him. You said you were waiting for Nacho but I'd like to hear your thoughts as well. Why wait for Nacho? Penguin's played games with him as well so that'll be a nice discussion. I am linking Venmar's Micro 53 mostly because I want to read Empire's case and Penguin was in the X-Men Micro. Also, interesting thing about Shadoweh is that she is somewhat dominating? as scum. See Fall of Gondolin where Tierce and Shadoweh basically directed the town in the initial phases. I'd like to hear your thoughts about that game as well Tierce, I was following it. I haven't played with Shadoweh before but Penguin was in the invitational game. Penguin found Plum scummy but I'm not sure. I was in Attack of Titan as scum when she was town and read the On a Boat game.

I'll go through these one-by-one (I was going to include these in my upcoming reads wall but figured why not here):

CDB:

From my understanding, CDB really dislikes being scum - he tends to lurk and his posting generally reads as meek. When he's town, he's a lot more confident, almost willing to assume a leadership position, not afraid to state his thoughts even when they go against the norm. The way he comments on the Tim Howard wagon as a bad one and then wants to steer people to a better vote in #325 followed by his repeatedly encouraging / asking people to join him on the Shadoweh wagon follows the kind of self-assured attitude that I don't think I've ever seen CDB successfully replicate as scum. I also like the way he inserts himself between Tim Howard and Zdenek early on (two of his townreads), scum don't usually put in as much effort into playing the mediator that he had there, they usually tend to consider TvT infighting either dismissively or not at all. A more minor point, but his repeated insistence that Tim Howard is town, complete with the post where he sites his experiences with Nexus, reads town as it comes across as though he genuinely believes in the read.
-> As an aside, the main issue that I have with sheeping his read on Tim Howard is that, from experience, I feel as though we're just naturally biased towards reading our friends as town (it definitely happened to me in Yoloville and I think it's at least part of the reason I got away with as much as I did in Faraday's ASoIaF U-Pick).

Katsuki:

I know the caps obscures it a bit, but you gotta look beyond it and into his tone. The one meta-based tell I have on him is that Katsuki is overall way lazier/lurkier as town. He puts in a lot more effort to giving thoughtful responses to people, building at least some semblance of a case, and showing even a hint of aggression as scum (check the two scum games again for examples of what I mean). I don't see any of the latter here - the expectation that a player he's familiar with be capable of reading him correctly as town is something that I've seen consistently across his town games, and while it's an easy smokescreen for scum generally speaking as it relieves the burden of having to put forth any meaningful content, Katsuki's meta turns that idea on its head.

Shadoweh:

I was ready to be all over her for the color thing but the way she's responded to Tammy's/chamber's/my accusations reminds me of the way she got hella mad at me in The Wire for my early push on her. I know she'd probably try and fake that angle here but she just sounds more genuine than I'd expect her to be as scum. Part of me is worried that I'm falling for the same bait that I did in Wingate Mansion, but eh. All I know is that her being domineering (this is the word you were looking for) is not indicative of her alignment at all.

Plum:

I'd really like to say that Plum's behavior in this game is consistent with scum boxed in by a lack of good lynch options (as her case on NS / vote on Tim Howard might suggest), but the stasis in this game seems like it's affecting everyone (it's definitely affecting me right now). The closest thing I've found that reminds me of the On A Boat game where she was my scumbuddy is #542 where there's a lack of focus that doesn't appear to be there when she's town (I read SpyreX's Wizard game and the Attack on Titan game while they were ongoing and correctly read her as town there) but that could just be a side effect of this particular game. Right now, she's in my PoE pool but got no read on her independently of that here, which is annoying.

I've already spoken at some length about Venmar and don't really feel like driving it in again.

I thought Cerulean's early posts were incredibly scummy, but they've been towntelling lately. I could absolutely support a Cerulean wagon though.

This makes absolutely no sense: you're saying my slot's been towntelling but you could "absolutely" support a wagon on our slot?

---

P-edit: Shadoweh, that's mean.

Honestly, I don't even feel that strongly that you're scum anymore, I just have no idea what I'm doing right now. I've got a nice handful of townreads but for some reason lack a sense of direction in this game (apparently the only scumread I have that I'm even remotely confident in right now sucks, maybe I'm just bad/rusty, I dunno).

Unvote

Bleh. Going to try hitting the game again in the next hour or so and seeing what I can manage.

[Cerulean]

EBWOP: Kanye, it's this post.

[Cerulean]

I've been in and out skimming in between doing work so I'll finish what I was starting yesterday but I just want to say: if this game is anything like the last U-Pick, scum do not have safeclaims, so I wouldn't make the assumption that they do.

[Cerulean]

I'm completely fucking exhausted so I'm cutting this (somewhat) short for tonight unless people want to talk to me about other stuff in the ~1 hour I have left awake.

But assuming they know the Town color

that is in the very first page

isn't all that nonsensical, yes?

The idea in my head at the time that she just fucked up: when I first read the line, I did a double take because I couldn't believe that had been posted. Her reaction to this whole thing is what made me think I probably jumped the gun on that one and now I'm just not at all as sure as I was before (as an aside, the town color isn't really something I think about or put in effort into trying to remember when I'm scum but that's probably because I'm bad at it, so).

Empire, you remember thinking that my Plum town-case in pennipedum looked too simplistic to be town?

If I had been town and had to explain why I thought Plum was town in that game, the case would have been very similar but I would have gone on a bit more about why the Plum in the On A Boat game was different.

I'm not seeing quite the same level of <I'm looking for a word here but I don't think there's a single word that hits the mark - ambiguity, many words that say not much, off-to-the-side> play, but IMO she's much closer to that than to the open, engaged, in the moment play I saw in Pennipedum.

I can move our vote there. But, I'd much rather be on a wagon that you and F-16 both think are scum if I'm not going to stick with nacho's strongest scum read.

"Passive" might be a decent word there? The thing is she looks like scum particularly because she does remind me of that game in the ways I mentioned but my biggest concern right now is that it might be activity related (since she's been V/LA for a large part of this Day phase). I could vote her but I wouldn't feel confident in it at all.

ha! even as I was answering this with "not at all since our first set of reads lists" I was getting text messages from him <3

I like that you're engaging me about our reads.

He feels pretty strongly about his katsuki read and I'm feeling a little bad about moving our vote rather than trying to push that wagon by proxy.

He feels like Katsuki's push on him in this game feels a lot like his push on kuribo in Anything Goes. And that his reaction to Nacho's push doesn't feel at all as organic as his town reactions usually are.

Basically I think he's calling Empire's meta-town read on Katsuki too shallow.

Uh, I just looked over what Nacho had posted about him in #295 and he says there that Katsuki as town tends to talk about how Nacho should be able to read him. Is that not what he's doing here (#626)? What more were you guys expecting from his reaction (I don't think Katsuki really one much for detail when he's town)?

---

@Sixty:

I still think Reck is town, in fact even moreso after the series of posts just now. I don't know if you guys have read The Reckoning III and that Mini Theme Fate ran, but if not, you really should (although Reck's effort level when putting forth a defense is more like the former than the latter). In fact, I'd say his play here mirrors The Reckoning III almost exactly...I get why you guys are suspicious of him, I remember having reservations on a townread on him while following it even though he literally townslipped on like page 5 or something of that game because his play felt half-finished/under-construction but I don't think he's scum here. If I had to pick a wagon to compromise on, it'd be Plum, though I have some reservations about going that way especially given that Tim Howard is one of the major proponents of it and every time they post, I get reminded of CDB's townread and then get traumatic flashbacks to the townreads on Andrius from The Game That Won't Be Mentioned.

[Cerulean]

F-16, right now my townreads are you, Sixty, sangres, Zdenek, chamber, CDB, LLD, and Reck...weaker ones on NS and Katsuki. That leaves a pool of: Shadoweh (who is potentially town via her reactions), kanye, Nero Cain, Plum, Venmar, UT, and Tim Howard (who I'm willing to defer to CDB for now despite my reservations), which is actually part of why this game makes no sense to me as it feels like any combination of 4-5 of them would make a ludicrous team. Makes me feel like I'm wrong somewhere.

I was hoping that my questioning kanye would lead somewhere but it hasn't. The main reason I asked him about the Sixty wagon was that Tammy told me a while back that kanye likes to get reads off of stuff like that as town so I was trying to follow up on that idea but his absence basically negated that whole line of inquiry. I was concerned that his strong townread on Katsuki was an attempt to buddy up to him so I tried to get some more substance there but refusing to elaborate the reasons behind it seems like something he'd do as both alignments.

First time for everything. =/

[Cerulean]

I have to wake up early tomorrow for a hearing so this is basically a prod dodge until after it's over.

[Cerulean]

I'll be around til a few hours before deadline but not right on that hour. For now, my vote'll go here.

Vote: Plum

Nacho, did you get around to answering the question I asked you a while back about what you expected from Katsuki's reaction as town?

[Cerulean]

Vote: Plum

[Cerulean]

Pretty sure this is the wrong line for today.

...I'll take your word for it but having caught up, it bothers me that she's so quickly and completely dropped her NS push from last day phase given how confident she seemed in it in favor of this UT one. It just seems like she's picking on easy targets and the confidence behind them both seems fake to me, like it's all blowing smoke but there's no conviction behind the words.

Unvote, vote: Venmar

I was really hoping that you would say something about the scum-tell the Venmar is using.

Sorry, haven't had much time to really engage in the game as I've been super busy. I honestly have no idea what he's talking about and would really like it if he'd explain (and specifically why he's using something that's allegedly mine when I don't think we've even played together since that one game from a couple of years ago now).

Sixty was defending Venmar quite a lot. A scum team with him with would want them around, and a scum team without him would be helped by having them gone, so

I don't think this is necessarily the case. Sixty's the vanilla kind of kill I could see come from pretty much any scum team.

[Cerulean]

Really sorry but I have to prod dodge for now. The good thing is that a decent portion of my workload has lightened so I should have more time for this game. I'll start up again tomorrow morning.

[Cerulean]

Prod received and it's totally my fault. I promised empire that I'd catch up and post yesterday as he's been busy but I got distracted, and I'm not distracted right now though I still have no desire to play but this hydra was supposed to be me and him occasionally so whatever.

I've kept up in a pretty skimmed manner but the wagon on UT is fucking stupid? And I'd really appreciate it if you'd get your votes off of him. I mean I kinda do get some of the suspicion on him from a really superficial basis, but that doesn't actually make him scum. I feel like I'm in the Reckoning all over again and Tim Howard, should actually see what I'm seeing and I thought that Reck would too and I'm glad to see that he ended up taking his vote off of him in the end because UT just feels so much like the Reckoning in which he was mislynch bait and we read him correctly except I don't have a weak neighborizer this game to prove that he's actually town and save him from a mislynch. He just feels nothing like he did in Wicked and so much more like he did in the Reckoning. I think the only one who really sees that is Flipping Awesome and that's awesome!

I think beyond that Chamber is my next strongest town read and mostly that's based on yesterday and the similar way we thought about some of Shadoweh's posting, and really would it have bothered you too much to just say "I said that in my first post". I don't think that would have been too difficult, but WHATEVER, anyway, I still think he's town and I have no idea what Lady Lambda is doing voting for him because it just feels like the weirdest placed vote ever. I'm willing to suppress some of empire's concerns over Plum on chamber's word though, so that can wait.

Beyond that, I'm just not in the best of moods right now, so that's all you're going to get and I really haven't talked to empire about this game so I'm not sure exactly where he stands but I do know that he's damn convinced of Venmar!scum so we'll see where that goes later.

[Cerulean]

Hi pless!

That post you're referencing is the only post I made soviet I replaced out. I planned on staying out but empire can't actually be busy on his own so begging on knees got me back.

I'm still not caught up. I hoped to do that today but I've been sick in bed all day and my medicine just kicked it which makes the words all woozy. I did talk to empire a little more this afternoon and hell post out well his thought sometime soon.

I'm just leaving the is a note to myself to look back at those interactions LLD mentioned later.

[Cerulean]

But yes shadoweh let's sing songs be merry and dance! Just don't forget the vodka. ( or gang up on me and say everyone else matters but me, that's not nice )

[Cerulean]

Cerulean

- Cen you explain to me something from yesterday? Why were you so keen on Zed using his Frame? You were reading him as Town, the claim was pro-Town there's some potential negative utility of the frame whoever it's used on - why did you care that he use it?

Heading to work but real quick. We didn't necessarily *care* that he use it, though him using it on someone else we thought was pretty town on the off chance we were wrong about him made sense. For me, I hoped it would put an end to what looked like was going to become a distraction. First there was the bit about how he couldn't be a town framer and then Chamber wanted it used on him and would wagon zdenek if he didn't use it. I thought it would be best to use it on chamber as iirc he'd said he'd be able to tell if it was used on him whereas empire just wanted it used on a strong town read, he suggested sixty. It seemed to me that getting that taken care of would go a long way to stopping a burgeoning distraction that could potentially lead to a lynch on someone I thought was town. I was having flashbacks of ASoIaF where day one there was this huge distraction over whether or not Thor was really a miller, would Faraday put a miller in his games, should he be a policy lynch, and in the end he was the day one mislynch. I really didn't want to have to fight that fight again if it could be helped.

[Cerulean]

So you do or don't think that it's scummy? Now or ever? I don't see what the time frame has to do with the truth of his statement though.

Of course I don't think reading the game is a scumtell. And I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say: Venmar and I have little to no experience with each other (the only one I can recall being a while ago) so it is really weird that he is deciding to apply a tell that's supposedly of mine given that.

Shadoweh, Empire, Plum, Chamber: I need your help for a moment.

I've been looking back at the first day, and there's some thoughts I've had.

Firstly, Reck and UT's interactions are off for me. Really off.

Secondly, UT's interactions with the Katsuki/Tim Howard/Plum wagons are very weird.

Can someoone go back and confirm I'm not going insane?

1) The one thing I see off about the Reck/UT interactions, on a reread, is that sometimes I feel as though UT is talking to Reck as if he already knows Reck's town. It's hard to describe but it's like UT is trying to play Evil Chancellor to Reck in posts like #1073 and the ensuing ones. I want to go over what Tammy thinks tomorrow when she feels better (she told me she's sick/exhausted from work and can't really post today) since I know she's felt really strong on her UT townread. On Reck's end, the interactions with UT seem pretty much in line with what I've seen in the past.

2) I'm really bad at looking at wagons so I won't be much help here. Only thing of note to me is his placement on the Tim Howard wagon when I believe he was still scumreading my slot.

pleasiez is probably scum

Why?

---

@F-16:

1) Putting aside the time constraints, I frankly don't really feel it's my place to strongarm anything when I'm not super confident in my reads and I'm way more willing to listen to people who's town games I respect, like Nacho's (see: my sheeping him and Llamarble in Wingate Mansion onto Desperado even though I thought he was town). My townread on Katsuki was pretty weak and I was trying to discuss the read with Nacho a bit more particularly because I had no sense of direction in my game D1 and was hoping for some guidance, as lame as shit as that sounds. Sometimes, I'm not the uber confident player I was in Black Flag or in my games with Regfan.

2) I do plan to be more active but the truth of the matter is this game's gotten me incredibly demotivated as town in a way I never experienced before. I joined this game in this hydra despite my time constraints because I was amped to play with my friends, all of whom are great players. Then the infighting happened and Tammy left and it just completely sapped my determination. I'm hoping that now that Tammy's back and everything's calm that I can come back in and hit the thread hard like my Burden of ObvTown demands.

3) I think you and penguin are completely, totally, 100% wrong about CDB's meta. My experience with him is that he's tryhard

town

(see: The Wire and The Red Wedding). Compare with his engagement level in this game where he was scum. I think CDB in this game fits more the town model here and Pless's entrance into the game only reinforce that feeling.

4) Um, putting aside the fact that it seems your sentence is unfinished, see above re: discussing UT with Tammy.

What are your updated thoughts on Tim Howard? Part of me really wants to trust CDB's Nexus read but it's like every bone in my body aches to see them lynched whenever I read the slot's posts. Would also be interested in your thoughts on their meta's.

[Cerulean]

I was hoping to make better progress catching up here. I'm still a solid fifty pages behind as all I did was read pages here or there. I'll have more time starting tomorrow and hopefully this headache and sickness goes away.

I think I need to respond to some of falcons post, as when I told empire a couple things he told me to since they were my thoughts so apparently he's given up trying to filter my posts :p

Someone asked for venmar meta. My medicine is kicking in so I'm not coordinated to find it and link it but I remembered earlier today that I played with him in red wedding. I thought it had just been chef mafia but red wedding too. That one is a pretty good game to check out he was pretty obvtown there to my scum eyes. I let him investigate and lynch me. It's in large completed themes.

Falcon when I catch up I'd love to see how our reads match up. I did read your first reads wall, how much of that still holds?

[Cerulean]

I finally started feeling better and catching up in this game last night. I haven't had a chance to talk to Empire about much as we've not been around the same time. He still has Venmar as scum and wants him lynched, but said that if no one wants to move to Venmar he's fine with us moving our vote to Kanye.

I want to finish catching up before I do any of that though. I should be done with that tonight.

Venmar though can you explain what that scum tell is you got from Empire. Like neither of us have a clue what you're talking about, and he's like yeah who cares he's scum so whatever, but I'm confused. Is this phantom empire scum tell (TM) that someone says they're not going to read the game...but then does?

If that's the case, why didn't it also bother you that Reck did pretty much the same thing when he entered the game?

[Cerulean]

FALCON!!!

[Cerulean]

also penguin

sorry.

[Cerulean]

FALCON!!!

[Cerulean]

I don't even know if *I* want to. I'm not done reading yet!

That's just what Empire told me before he headed out the door, but he's out for the night and out of town for the weekend, so I get to do what I want. MUAHAHAHAHAHA.

[Cerulean]

The thing is I can see the suspicion on Kanye and I absolutely hated that he just kinda floated into the early game with a "not gonna read these pages" given what i know about how he reads the early game. I let him talk me out of the suspicion on him in the Wizards game for a very similar thing. HOWEVER, he's dipped out of activity in other games before and I haven't seen him on skype in like a month, so I don't know if I'm giving him suspicion for something that's not. Though in the Wizard game he pretty much worked hard to manipulate any suspicion I had of him and walked a balancing act of trying not to inflame the paranoia I had on him.

Empire has him in his poe pool though, so IDK.

[Cerulean]

EBWOP: but he hasn't responded to my concerns here.

should finish my sentences.

[Cerulean]

I did!

I need to respond to something of your post from a few days ago, which I will later.

I was going to interact with your reads

because empire's lame and didn't

, have your reads from your last reads list changed?

[Cerulean]

But, Tammy, quiz time: read all of my posts so far in the game and tell me what my alignment is:

Spoiler: answer

TOWN

SCUM

FTFY

[Cerulean]

I had Nero town yesterday, I'm trying to quickly catch up tonight to see what this wagon is all about. I agree UT is town which I'll talk about later, and Empire agrees with me there. Empire still has Plum as scum but hasn't really talked about it because he said it's a read that might not be right as he's taking a cue from Chamber whom we both read as strong town, but I'm seeing more of her Attack on Titan self, so we'll definitely need to talk about that read. The Wizards game I misread her so terribly due to inactivity. We obviously have Venmar as scum, though empire's more convinced than I am. Kanye's sangres' vote did feel odd, though to be fair katsuki can often be an easy target and I do think that Kanye reads him well, although that comes from the Wizards game where he said that could read Katsuki and never misread him though katsuki didn't correct him so. I *can* see Kanye thinking that someone was trying to score an easy mislynch I guess, though the way Nacho went about it was so extremely town I can't see the way he thought it was scum. Confirmation bias and all that jazz aside, but the way he pushed that lynch was so similar to the way he pushed me in Too Many Heads, so.

Anyway, I'll finish catching up.

[Cerulean]

But, Tammy, quiz time: read all of my posts so far in the game and tell me what my alignment is:

Spoiler: answer

TOWN

SCUM

FTFY

Please turn in your right to read F-16 card here:


The card has expired. You need three consecutive correct reads to renew it.

You know what that means!

[Cerulean]

You're Right To Read Tammy Card Goes Here:



(also can be stop using my jokes against me. They're way less clever when I use them later.)

[Cerulean]

I mean I'd probably be insulted but there's no way you're reading me as scum.

[Cerulean]

Thank you for saying I'm awesome though! I tried to tell my friends that, but mina disagreed. SHE'S MEAN. And then Empire agreed with her, because he sucks as hydra partner

[Cerulean]

Are you mad b/c we made you the Boss? I'm sorry okay? :< We just wanted to make you skip turns forever!
Tammy since you're actually reading again: I'm really sorry. I don't like feeling helpless and by the time you were shouting at me just before replacing out you pushed me past blind rage into exhausted resignation. I think if you look back you might realize we were all being very uptight over arguments that weren't that heated, it's just a game and all. So calm down and let's make some posts that involve having fun in this silly game together again. <^_^>

Tim Howard can't see what you're seeing because he's scum. I'm sure he'll be happy to sheep you onto whoever but he's still a scumbawg. (His reply doesn't change my mind, I'm aware he meant townier but it doesn't change read-convenience, I could bully this point mmore right now but im rather sleepy and I'd rather hear the sound of other people's voices for a bit.)

<3

I've been more sensitive than usual lately, but I think I'm better now. I just do wish you'd have said I said it in my first post because I'd have just dropped it and felt like the dumbest idiot ever instead of just feeling like I'd caught obvious scum because I was

not

awesome! And I do realize that was what you were getting at with the read my posts again and unvote me but when I'm seeing red/blue/green, I don't recognize small hints like that and didn't realize it until Tierce made the heart attack red post.

[Cerulean]

I think later you did, but can't you see why I'd be suspicious after I had a similar suspicion in Wizards and

let you talk me out of it?

WELP

[Cerulean]

I mean, look at these posts:

vote sangria

do we only have 1 day thats fucked up

1 day 12 hours

iove made flash wagons happen faster than that

Kanye clearly knows how close the day is to deadline when he moves his vote to a wagon that isn't going anywhere.

i would have moved it

even if i had realized

how close we were to deadline

And now he's saying "even if". Suggesting that actually he didn't realise. But the posts above make it obvious that he did.

What is the town motivation for lying like this?

Okay Pless, I *see* where you're coming from, but help me out a little. In Post 1159 shadoweh asks him what he's doing and tells him how much time until deadline. That prompts the 1160 post and the resulting 1161 post. That does suggest that when he originally moved his vote to sangres he didn't know what the deadline was and then was like I can make a wagon in this time.

I think I like the argument that he didn't actually do anything about it afterwards and try to get him lynched though.

Am I misreading your point?

[Cerulean]

Cerulean, I am concerned with Empire head and also with some of your D1 play:

- Your lack of presence towards the end of D1. It just didn't feel like the sort of thing you would do where you vote Plum and let a lynch on a townread (Katsuki) go through. Why didn't you try to take a larger role in working with the town to secure a lynch not on one of your townreads? I get that you were strapped for time and it is probably unfair for me to bring this up but when you did have time, I expected you to use it more efficiently.

- Your play here and interactions with me feeling different than in Black Flag Nightless where you were intent on getting me into the game and sharing my thoughts. I don't get the same vibes here even accounting for reduced activity. Do you plan to be active at any point in the future?

Empire talked about some of this, but katsuki was more of an early town read of mine than of Empire's though he did agree somewhat based on meta. I'm more protective of katsuki than empire is in general, so it's not something he would have fought for in the first place even if he had been around much, but even if I had still been in the game we probably wouldn't have fought too much. I mean I *would* have argued with Nacho about it, and I probably would have lost the argument anyway. Nacho has only let me win a few reads arguments, and that one wouldn't have been one of them, not in the beginning of the game. And Empire in that situation wouldn't have been able to put up as much of a fight as I would have.

As far as our activity in the game, it will be better from here on out. I'm here and I'm better so it's all good. This hydra was always supposed to be me with a side of empire; he only joined it so that he could play in some capacity but not have to worry about it consuming the time he didn't really have in the first place to dedicate to it. I'm not sure about the black flag reverence though? You might be thinking about me trying to get you in the game? I remember during that game getting frustrated that you weren't really talking and him directing me to a game you were in, in lylo I think?, in which you were really trying to get a scum read lynched and telling me not to worry that you weren't posting much because you were into another game. Anyway I've pretty much been the dominant posting head in our hydra in our previous games, which was part of the joke in my first post because I would be here too, so maybe you're thinking of me?

Hopefully Empire will be able to be more active, but his ability to commit to mafia like he used to dropped mid last year.

I felt like there was something else here I wanted to say and I can't remember now. Maybe later.

- I also expected you to take a stronger role in defending UT if as you say, he is a townread and you are confident about this read but if you are still catching up,

I feel like I did. There's not a wagon on him anymore? This is my read mostly. Empire does agree with my read, but it really is mine. But it's not something that either of us felt confident about day from day one. But though Empire says that the game's gotten boring, after mind you getting frustrated over the hostility day one, I think that some of the distractive elements, including me, have been placed at a minimum and so it's easier to see things? IDK

[Cerulean]

(2) town-reading Venmar for "frustration", again ignoring Tammy's whole angry-replace-out thing

They're different people. I've seen Tammy get frustrated multiple times before, it's null on her to me. She's kind of an easily frustrated person, so far as I can tell.

How many times have you seen me get that frustrated as scum?

[Cerulean]

I basically can't pick out a read on Cerulean. I'll have a conversation with Nexus about it today, if I can catch him online.

How many games have you played with Tammy to this point? Because ... okay, Tammy will be smug if I'm misreading her, I guess, but I just don't see how you can't have a solid read on that slot at this point.

You're reading me right so I'm happy!

But I think you know me well enough that smug isn't me anyway? Tragic guilt is more my style.

I'm just trying my damndest to alt slip as much as possible.

[Cerulean]

Ahahahahhaha.

TBF...We were on point that game, and it was really solid. Arthur was driving me insane and I thought his opening posts denoted a you and Thor pair. Empire was like, F-16 will make that slot easy to read, and we really really really wanted to see if we could solve that game with a sixty lynch and the day after.

Reading those posts, I think it makes it clear that we didn't have a read on your slot and needed one whereas here Empire had a read on your slot from your early posts. That's me guessing from tone and context though. He can correct me when he shows up if I'm wrong.

So, yeah, he'll want your input and activity, but he's already reading your slot in a way he wasn't in that game (partly because of me).

[Cerulean]

@F-16: I'll engage your wall/reads later when I'm back from dinner.

F-16, going to have to take a rain check on talking about your reads. I wasn't really in the mood for mafia today at all.

This is why I felt underwhelmed. I guess real life stuff comes in as well but idk. I still feel pretty good about you guys being town, just wouldn't bank the game on you right now.

I feel like Empire already answered part of this in his first answer to you. I could probably answer this in more detail but part of it is my fault for what happened the weekend before with my replace out and the other is not game relevant, and it would just be more productive to move on from there.

[Cerulean]

That makes more sense. I just remembered JT was treating our slot as conftown and you guys had doubts about us because they had to keep explaining their townread because you wouldn't believe it. Real life + already having a read on our slot could account for the difference. I did feel that the way you were trying to scumhunt Shadoweh bordered on unfakeable. In any case, once I re-read and we compare notes, it should be a lot more apparent and I can get a more solid read.

For now: Do you disagree on any of these reads: {Zdenek, Chamber, Shadoweh, UT, Plessiez} as all being town?

Well yeah, Regfan thought absta replaced out because he was spoiled. I was worried and wouldn't shut up to Empire about it. I don't know if you can understand the level of involvement we both had in that game. We read Sixty as scum by like page 3 and that's all we could talk about. It was the first time we hydra'd together and worked together and we wanted to win the game by day two, though that didn't become possible.

What our hydra will be more like is The Wire, where it's just more me because even though we're both in a different place in our lives, mine is less affected than his.

Empire and I really really strongly agree that Chamber is town. I'm pretty sure we both agree that Zdenek is town as that was our early read. We both agree that UT is town, though that is more my read. In catching up on day two yes I'm getting over my day one ridiculousness on Shadoweh and I think that her game makes more sense as town and reminds me more of her town game than her scum game...this read someone will have to hold me on because I'm going to waffle on it like crazy and worry I'm reading her wrong but right now I think she's town. Pless is probably town so far. I did like CDB; I think Empire did too, yes he did which is the whole reason why we're taking caution on the Tim Howard read though I will say that I suck at reading quadz.

[Cerulean]

KANYE!!!

[Cerulean]

i have magical powers.

you asked me a question. I responded; I kinda hoped you'd respond or something so I could get a better read on you.

did you figure out what you were wrong about?

[Cerulean]

I mean I'd probably be insulted but there's no way you're reading me as scum.

Same here. I mean I had a few fleeting thoughts that this may be the game I get to payback Empire for his massive case on me in NY160 but it became increasingly apparent that it is not once I took a quick look at your posts. I have a feeling scum-you is either going to be afraid of town-me, or try to drive a mislynch on me, or try to buddy me. Can't figure out which it would be.

You should have joined asoiaf for that!

As far as what scum-me would do, maybe one day you'll find out! Though it will probably be what strikes my fancy in the moment. Although I'd probably be nervous, especially in a player list with Nacho, and tell my scum buddies to just bus me...as usual.

[Cerulean]

Ugh. I'm caught up but it's stupid late. I would have caught up earlier but some people got me distracted on skype.

Anyway I'm near passing out, so I will give my thoughts when I wake up.

Nero - Can you give your flavor for your bulletproof though?

[Cerulean]

im a bit hung over and still not interested in moving zzzzzz

I'm right there with you on the hungover part!

[Cerulean]

Someone asked for venmar meta. My medicine is kicking in so I'm not coordinated to find it and link it but I remembered earlier today that I played with him in red wedding. I thought it had just been chef mafia but red wedding too.

Have you read Xenosaga, Tammy?

Because I was sort of agreeing that town!Venmar in the Red Wedding doesn't sound much like Venmar does in this game, but I looked for another town!Venmar game and Xenosaga feels much more like Venmar's posts here.

How convinced is Empire about Venmar being scum? Does he have any reasons to add beyond the day 1 stuff?

No, I haven't read that game, but I'll take a look at it tonight.

I asked empire this question yesterday, and he said that a lot of it was still the day one stuff but beyond that he's not really scumhunting today and what little he does do is extremely shallow. But really that's all I got out of him before he left and he's out of town pretty much every weekend now so I probably won't get a chance to really talk to him before deadline. Last night he reiterated that he's fine moving to kanye if venmar won't work cuz Poe and lack of engagement, I'm just not sure I feel super comfortable with that, so I need to think about it. I am concerned my hesitation comes from what carp I'll feel like mislynching him, but this was part of what kept me from hammering him in wizards and he ended up winning. I was hoping to have more interaction with him though last night but I got distracted on Skype and vodka so I didn't pursue what I was going for. I was hoping I'd get a sense of the way he interacted with me in wizards as he pretty actively manipulated me there, but he did say during that game that we needed to work on my paranoia and then afterwards that he probably wouldn't let me live close to endgame again because he couldn't trust me to do what he wanted, so he could be changing his tactic? IDK. It's hard to get a handle there.

[Cerulean]

at 9:15????

8:15

Headache has subsided for the most part but still tired.

[Cerulean]

Hmm does Thor really die early a lot? Interesting. I don't know how to take neros it's all right if I'm lynched thing. It's been awhile since we've played together except charmed but I didn't follow along after I died. I just always think of him having more of a fight in him, so this is confusing. Though he is kinda reminding me of American revolution when he saw another tracker flip and expected to get lynched that day, but I think there was more of a fight? IDK I'd have to check. He fooled me in marketplace three by giving the town attitude I expect, but I've still leant town here. I'll only vote here to avoid a no lynch or to keep a stronger town read from dying.

Speaking of which plum I get your suspicion on reck I really do, but I really think you're wrong here. For your shadoweh comment, I was in the reckoning with UT, and he's right about how hostile that game was. We all pretty much fought the entire game, and they were not pretty fights at all, and the fact that we somehow were able to pull off a perfect town win is a miracle. I can totally see why he would be playing peacemake here after that game. That game along with other tense/hostile games is where I've felt particularly on edge and needing a break from mafia. In fact, his lightheartedness is part of where I'm reading him as strongly town. Those logical jumps you noticed where a really big reason why people wanted to lynch him in the reckoning and Mina was trying to explain how that was actually a town tell for him. As scum he has this weird kind of aggression and tries to fake humor in a way that doesn't come out right, but as town jumps around and throws out gut reads and makes illogical jumps. I helped mislynch him in yoloville for a very similar thing, and I think it's why he was so mislynch able in the reckoning until we weak neighborized him, but like he was scum reading us until then but I don't think he even pushed us or voted us because I was town reading him so strongly and "buddied" him. I think you're case on him makes you look rather town as your "look at this guy" just feels so real and not what I remember from on the boat but I'd have to go back and check to make sure that I'm remembering your tone right. Anyway, I realize the wagon on it won't take off today, but he's one of my stronger town reads and I want to make sure this is out there.

[Cerulean]

What we were debating was to whether to vote Venmar or Kanye. I would vote either over Nero Cain or UT.

Guh?

[Cerulean]

What we were debating was to whether to vote Venmar or Kanye. I would vote either over Nero Cain or UT.

Guh?

Misread, never mind. Tired.

[Cerulean]

Ebwop : I get your suspicion on ut.

[Cerulean]

How many times have you seen me get that frustrated as scum?

Dunno? Not really an alignment thing, like I said, you just seem easily frustrated.

Funny story, in RL, I'm pretty laid back, sorta.

As scum though my biggest problem has been being able to fake frustration. I hate rolling scum and just don't care about the game.

[Cerulean]

I'm sad that no card went my way .

Way to be self-absorbed chamber

>_>

[Cerulean]

Xenogears is the game you want to be looking at for the best representation of my town meta >.>

also I think Empire can't read me for shit in reality

What do you think of his analysis here?

What am I supposed to think? He fucked me up that game? I also think that Empire isn't doing any of it in this game.

That game was also back when I was atrocious as scum and is an incredibly poor representation of my meta. So if people could fucking stop thinking they are the shit and so fucking clever by meta-ing that game on me, that would be fucking swell because it's infuriating. If you want to go "think" you know my scum-meta, then go read House of Cards or UDesign, then fail anyways at knowing how to read me.

Because nobody ever can

^^^ votes go fucking here

[Cerulean]

Someone asked for venmar meta. My medicine is kicking in so I'm not coordinated to find it and link it but I remembered earlier today that I played with him in red wedding. I thought it had just been chef mafia but red wedding too.

Have you read Xenosaga, Tammy?

Because I was sort of agreeing that town!Venmar in the Red Wedding doesn't sound much like Venmar does in this game, but I looked for another town!Venmar game and Xenosaga feels much more like Venmar's posts here.

How convinced is Empire about Venmar being scum? Does he have any reasons to add beyond the day 1 stuff?

I kinda see what you mean, maybe about his sarcasm?

Except I see what empire is talking about him missing in this game. His scumhunting was way deeper there. Sure he tunneled on MS for pretty much the entire game but I think that was because of neighborhood paranoia? But if you look he had way deeper reasons for his reads, way less trolling, way more trying to get his townreads to shut up and work with each other to get his scumreads lynched than he's doing here.

Am I off base, because I mean I guess reading that game I know he's town so I'm confirmbiasing but he just feels more actively engaged in trying to develop reads and get his scum reads lynched than he is here. And his latest post where he's just taunting doesn't sound town at all.

[Cerulean]

He sounds like Paschendale which is infuriating. It's like, I'm scummy, you can't tell that I'm town when I'm scummy and it's your fault because this is my play, I'll be a shallow scumhunter and it's your fault you can't read me RAWR!

[Cerulean]

VOTE: flipping awesome

I'll wake up and put this back in a better spot in the morning, i just want this shit marked.

[Cerulean]

Good. Do something.

[Cerulean]

You shouldn't start. I'm not in the fucking mood. Do something.

[Cerulean]

I think I played a game with Venmar and interacted with him quite a but but I was playing under an alt. I'm going to double check with that.

How did that pan out?

[Cerulean]

VOTE: venmar

I'm gonna try to respond to anything but it's really late. I'll make sure to wake up before deadline to move my vote to avoid a no lynch though if it's needed.

[Cerulean]

Bring IT.

[Cerulean]

No, bring it today big boy.

There's no way that anyone who knows anything about me knows I'm anything but town here.

[Cerulean]

...you really want to lose all rights to read me ever don't you?

[Cerulean]

No.

1) Tomorrow, I'll get you lynched and prove that I can read you 216 times better than anyone else ever.

2) You don't get to talk to me about reading you while you just voted obvtown me. That's right. You. Voted. Obvtown. Me.

First off, sorry to inform you but the mod of this game holds the distinction of being able to read me best of anyone ever and you threatenign to lynch a very town me doesn't really do anything for your best reads tammy ever medal event.

Second, I'm annoyed at you in general. I wanted your attention; I wanted to see your reaction to me all of a sudden out of nowhere voting me. I thought it would be different.

Third, sure fine, tunnel me if you want? I mean if I'm still here sure have fun but you don't get to do the pointed obvtown things when you're going to threaten me while I'm about as town as I can be.

[Cerulean]

Can we save the dueling "I'm obvtown, but you're scum for [reasons I won't talk about]" nonsense for

tomorrow

never, please?

Neither of you is getting lynched today. There are about eight hours left to secure a lynch. This isn't helpful.

but pless you never let me have any fun!

[Cerulean]

why did you respond to my vote the way you did?

[Cerulean]

I really want to put this discussion on hold for tomorrow so I'll respond to the rest later.

Re: Your annoyance at me - if you are talking about in general, then I really am sorry. If you are talking specifically about my play in this game, I don't see any reason for annoyance.

Why are you apologizing to me if you think I'M SCUM?

[Cerulean]

I guess my issue with this game was that at one point, I fell behind and didn't follow a lot of stuff. I can spend time posting elsewhere if I am already caught up but to go and re-read might take a while and it is something I don't want to do until my finals are done and that'll be this Wednesday which should be very early after D3 opens. Once that's done, I am going to do a massive re-read of the entire game and post my thoughts in detail and make it awesome to play.

I get the whole suspicion based on low activity but you saw my posts towards the beginning of the game. You saw the massive amount of analysis I put forth. You saw Nacho obvtown read me. You know in your heart I'm town and I trust you to be able to read me off of the content I produced. We made our affiliation incredibly obvious on D1. We intend to do so on D3. I just don't have it in me to re-read pages that I missed while I still have finals to write. I know it is ironic considering the amount of time I waste playing mafia even the weekend before but it is one thing to post stuff in the moment if already caught up and quite another to catch up on a whole bunch of pages and develop reads.

Um all right but me too. I mean I made my alignment incredibly obvious day one in several places and maybe if I were empire and not as paranoid as I am I wouldn't question your alignment but I know I want to read you as town and I know that fucks with my head. I know that I'd like to see how you react to suspicion from me, and you're probably one of the few people I could just vote for to get a reaction and feel like the reaction meant something I HOPE and I'm a little bit weirded out that you're like I found a tell from a dead thread of a game you barely even posted after you were killed night one. I mean yay reaction tests but if that's what you're going for that game is like the worst one ever and please please don't try to replicate it as that's pretty much the game that's started my spiral into needing a break from mafia but I think this game has gotten back on a track of not hostile so I don't htink a repeat of that gameis necessary.

As far as who I could bounce my thoughts off of in this game it's you and pless but yeah you've been active elsewhere and to be fair so was I before I came back into the game but penguin hasn't even posted in this game in forever and even if you're busy what was brought up about penguin was that she has kinda a meta of dipping in and out and just saying somewhat relevant things and then being away for a while and that fits from what I remember of my partner in Too Many Heads and oh my gods if you actually suspect me here talk to penguin because jeezuz fuck it's obvious I'm town here but if I can nail down that you're town and that pless is town I have two people I can understand who can understand me and that's all good, i don't understand why you're resistant to that.

[Cerulean]

why did you respond to my vote the way you did?

I was too tired and sleepy to make another crossword puzzle.

I was hoping for a different reaction. I wanted an immediate, unfiltered, wtf are you doing response.

[Cerulean]

...I feel like a jerk.

[Cerulean]

You do say that in the dead thread

Bert has done a similar thing in a couple games, and I never get it. I always get frustrated.

I don't play well with others, and should probably take a nap.

I will wake up in a bit to check and see if I need to move my vote for the lynch though.

[Cerulean]

I felt like the way you were interacting with me was odd, I just didn't get the hint because I suck sometimes.

[Cerulean]

Awake for a minute. Want to go back to sleep. Do I need to move my vote?

[Cerulean]

hey tammy if i get lynched im leaving it up 2 you to find out whos the scum that bailed the tim wagon after he claimed

This conviction feels odd.

I'm trying to decide what I think of this post. I partly realize what he's doing as he's referencing asoiaf. I was the only one who argued ooba's guilty on him was fake in that game and tried to stop his lynch. While he was getting lynched he told me I was the only one he trusted to set town on the right path the next day. But in the part you cut off he said don't fuck it up like asoiaf, but I died that night so I'm not sure what he means. I suppose he could be manipulating me off his wagon as that is why I had such a hard time in wizards. IDK

[Cerulean]

This us my fence of uncertainty. It's such a beautiful fence.

[Cerulean]

Awake for a minute. Want to go back to sleep. Do I need to move my vote?

Probably not.

I'm here to hammer Nero if needed -- just holding out because

I'm a stubborn idiot

I still think kanye is the better lynch.

(You could always move to kanye, I guess?)

I'm thinking. I just might not stay awake while doing it.

[Cerulean]

I'm thinking. I just might not stay awake while doing it.

STAY AWAKE FOR 52 MORE MINUTES
FUCK IF I CAN DO IT YOU CAN YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO KEEP MY EYES OPEN

Yeah but you went to bed at a decent hour last night and I stayed up until 7 something.

[Cerulean]

Ugh, yeah, final answer with some sleep is that I don't think this is scum-Nero. Possibly too little too late, but.

Cerulean, do you actively think kanye is town? Which side of the fence, gun to your head?

Scum. Idk. Town. Scum. Town. Idk. Kanye. Scum. Town. Scum. Town.

That one post was the only one where he felt like he was appealing to me. I don't know if it's him showing me trust or manipulating me.

Chambers right :/

[Cerulean]

Empires texting me and telling me to vote kanye.

:/

Give me a second.

[Cerulean]

That one post was the only one where he felt like he was appealing to me.

The one where he told you not to "fuck up like you did in ASOIAF"?

That

makes you town-read him?

I mean, sure, kanye's obviously bitter about getting mislynched in that game (and it's hard to blame him, I guess?). That really doesn't have any bearing on his alignment this game that I can see though.

Why did you cut off the next sentence? I said I can't tell if he's using it to manipulate me or not. He knows I wouldn't want to mislynch him. It's why I had such a hard time in wizards.

[Cerulean]

Chamber, what was the point of the short-lived switch to kanye?

Why did you cut off the next sentence? I said I can't tell if he's using it to manipulate me or not.

I don't understand why you're focusing so much on single post (mostly about a different game!) either way.

Because my name is Tammy and that's what I do?

[Cerulean]

Of course of course of course fucking hell

[Cerulean]

If we don't get a lynch because Tammy is sitting on her ass I will park my vote on her literally the rest of the game.

I have never caused a no lynch

Just frustrated myself and everyone else.

I'm talking to empire hang on.

[Cerulean]

I know we have 10 minutes give me a minute.

[Cerulean]

Empires probably going to kill me.

[Cerulean]

He told me to vote kanye awhile ago and I keep going are you sure?

Yes. He says every time.

[Cerulean]

Feh

VOTE: kanye

[Cerulean]

Soooo happy that I managed to get some time to check my phone the other day, you have no idea.

Vote: Venmar

[Cerulean]

i thought this succession of posts was scummy, since you ask the game who to sheep due to not wanting to read, and then barely a couple posts later you seem to apparently do some "reading" anyways?

Empire why didn't you pick up this scumtell on Kanye when I did? I mean, I got it from you and it turned out right..?

Considering we, more than once from both our heads, said we didn't know what you were talking about, that empire doesn't think saying you're not going to read and then...reading is a scum tell. And I asked you yesterday to explain what you were talking about and why you applied this "phantom scum tell" to Kanye but not to Reck, I'd think that neither of us think it's a scum tell.

Interested in Chamber's Nero thing but since he moved to LLD, I'm all hrm.

Also, just a quick fly by and don't really expect anything from me until Saturday probably because FINALS WEEK. I want to go back and do some rereading but I won't be able to until then.

[Cerulean]

i thought this succession of posts was scummy, since you ask the game who to sheep due to not wanting to read, and then barely a couple posts later you seem to apparently do some "reading" anyways?

Empire why didn't you pick up this scumtell on Kanye when I did? I mean, I got it from you and it turned out right..?

Quote where it came from please.

TICK TOCK VENMAR

[Cerulean]

Everything's silly. It's mafia!

[Cerulean]

PROD

DODGE

still not thinking or rereading before tomorrow!

[Cerulean]

I know I said I'd start rereading through some things today but ALCOHOL IS EVIL and my head still feels woozy, so tomorrow or Monday.

Also, I think I'm flying solo for the rest of this day phase as empire will be v/la this week.

[Cerulean]

I had a weekend-long bender, haven't slept in over a week, and a pile of work I have to do for the semester that just started before I can sleep. I'm putting off mafia until tomorrow.

/whine

[Cerulean]

TAMMY!!

My turn to call you out now.

I'm here! Barely.

I'm going to do my best to catch up tonight, but I'm exhausted, so if I don't say anything else I passed out.

[Cerulean]

I honestly don't care what you do. I've been catching up as fast as I personally can, and getting myself re-centered on reads.

If you seriously think I would set up a bus on Kanye day 1 and 2 and then apatheticly let it drop when a Kanye lynch was primed and I saw it, you're fucking out of your mind.

I'm gonna be focusing on UT and Reck again today.

VOTE: Lady LambdaDelta

Please explain why you 'needed to be reassured Kayne wasn't scum' then when said reassurances did not come and his wagon ramped up you didn't follow up on this.

Because for the second day in a row I wasn't looking at the thread for a whole day or so, and then suddenly came back to a lynch?

Suddenly came back to a lynch that went through minutes before deadline?

It was deadline? I came back after the topic was locked.

If you missed it, then you didn't see it and couldn't follow through though.

I know that you pride yourself on your scum game and you also really respect kanye's scum game, but I also know you have various ways to deal with each of us. I love self-meta, but I also remember you being pretty inactive in mafia.maiden early game, and your self-meta for what you would do for early distancing would be stronger if you had remained active or even around for the lynch. Since you weren't around though and your vote for Nero was Thursday night when there were two on him and two on kanye, you couldn't have very well known that kanye would become a thing.

[Cerulean]

Take your pictures to the Guys thread geez. I'm around and watching, naturally, but I expect the wild LambdaKitten to take her sweet-ass time to post anything in the thread.

They could alternatively post cuter guys.

>_>

<_<

>_<

I swear I won't spam post, but a girl needs a little amusement here.

[Cerulean]

I'm about to head out in a little, but I just remembered: Tammy, if you get to this point before you pass out and still have energy left, could you talk about how Kanye has treated his scumbuddies based off of your past experience with him? I'm going to dig into his meta a little to get an understanding but I'd love it if you could give a firsthand account. It'll help me make more sense of his interactions.

Uh my only experience with kanye!scum is the wizards game. He was scum with fate there and LLD blew fate up by like page 5? I don't think kanye and fate interacted together, but it was pretty chaotic and that was his only partner.

[Cerulean]

Re: UT, I can maybe see why you'd disagree with me about UT being a Kanye buddy since it is based on a foundation of what I think UT would do as scum. I guess it is debatable whether he would forget a scumbuddy. However, I do think that Kanye's stance on the declining UT wagon saying that the votes there are fucking stupid points pretty strongly to UT-town and I think UT is playing to his town-meta independently of whether or not he could be a Kanye buddy so I'd be pretty surprised if he was scum here. I'll admit though that of the people in the extremely unlikely category, UT was the one I was most waffling on and least sure about. Particularly the end of day vote on Nero Cain bugged me. But then I remembered what Tammy said about UT being prone to logical leaps as town that gets him suspected and then it started making a little more sense.

I fell asleep in the middle of reading your associative wall and am getting ready to head to work, but real quick a case in point about the logical leaps. In yoloville, ut replaced in and had a gut scum read on ces but at some point decided something that had been said was a pretty clear indication of shadoweh scum who then was wagoned pretty strongly. But then near deadline he jumped off because of his gut read on ces and when I tried to figure out why and cited that claim of reasons for a stronger evidence of shadoweh being scum, he just argued with me about what the word evidence should mean in a mafia game. To me it didn't make sense at all and we ended up mislynching him instead :/. (I'm going off memory here, I'm pretty sure it was shadoweh though).

[Cerulean]

I'm privately having epileptic seizures of thought looking at LLD's latest posts and bashing my head to convince myself she would post like this as scum isn't working. I kind of feel like 'she would only play this badly as Town' is a bad argument though. So.. I'm just going to go bash my head over here until it makes sense some more.

They could alternatively post cuter guys.
>_>
<_<
>_<

Spoiler: Tammy's Hot Boy

Isn't he so cute?

[Cerulean]

Hello, I am present!

[Cerulean]

Tammy head checking in.

I'm sick as hell, be back tomorrow.

[Cerulean]

I'm still sicker than crap, so I might not get to this tomorrow. WE'll see how I feel after a nap though!

I saw you asked me a question about Reck though falcon, I'll respond to that later.

so I logged out of tammy to log into cerulean and logged back in as tammy.

medicine fog durrrrr

[Cerulean]

Can you elaborate on your townread on Reck?

My frame of reference for Reck!scum is Red Wedding, where we were partners, and Team Mafia 2012. In both of these games he played up the too busy/apathetic to be scum game and people gave him a pass for doing stuff like lolhammering because scum would be more careful, I guess? I thought he was scum at first playing up that angle again, but there's a string of posts starting at Post 407 that I liked. I just really liked how natural that post sounded. It's not the strongest read in the world, and he's definitely not as obvtown as he was in Baltomeet or even scummies invitational, but he also sounds nothing like my partner from Red Wedding. It's the barometer I used in the Reckoning and even though I faltered there and almost gave in to my other head and UT, it still held pretty true. I want to reread yesterday and how the lynch went down but he could have hammered kanye for potential town cred instead of yelling at me to choose one though.

I need to finish reading through your associative walls and respond to anything. That's definitely not happening tonight as I'm going back to bed. Also, Nexus was not town in Mafiastuck and I don't know how much you'll learn from that game either. He was hydraing with Faraday, and I'm pretty certain a chunk of the posts that claim to be Nexus are actually Faraday pretending to be Nexus. (That's an educated guess, not a fact though.)

I had something else to say and I can't remember what it was. Myabe later.

[Cerulean]

No that was the game I was in. He was in the one modded bt lost butterfly. I'm on the verge of passing out, but it should be right around where you found that one.

[Cerulean]

I have a few things I want to look into and discuss with Tammy before ending the day. I'd prefer to lynch LLD over Venmar although I am scumreading both of them but I don't want to vote just yet and let Venmar hammer just in case. I'd much rather be the hammer at a time I'm comfortable with.

I figure I've got a couple hours in me to do stuff I need to do and chat, so if you're around I am.

[Cerulean]

I need to work with someone to actually get re-motivated for this game. HELP!

s.o.s.

[Cerulean]

As of this moment, I would throw up Flipping Awesome and UT.

And I bet you any money FA will vote me for saying that, but IDGAF. I think he's scum.

Those are two of my strongest town reads.

[Cerulean]

hey you should all listen to my radio show tonight FREE FUCKIN ADVERTISING F YEAH

http://www.mixlr.com/reckonerX

So I listened to The Best song Ever and I'm encouraging a boycott oof this. Would not play at Fantasy Camp.

So I'm remembering why I was not wanting to post in here before and us very quickly running the deadline down to nothhing while doing nothing makes me extra wary of this LLD lynch. I don't remember how I felt about Venmar but he's at the same level yet doesn't seem to have any support to go further? I kind of think today is just going to be a wash anyways, thx mafiascum.net. Honestly the main thing turning me off is how similar LLD's voters are to kayne's. (including my own vote. Which makes me wonder who the fuck im listening to that's wrong.)

This isn't particularily helpful gamewise but I'm trying out this posting in the thread thing to shake off this paranoia about postin in the thread about my doubts. Tammy plz get better and also tell me who I should be voting since ur a much better mafia player then Empire!

Apparently he recognizes that too! I feel like I'm in the wire all over again when he left me high and dry. ANYWAYS last time we talked because LLD was his big town read, he said that read had gone stale and I tried to fill him in on what had happened before ms went kablooey, he still agreed with me that ut was a strong town read and was like has venmar been lynched yet? I'm not even sure why he's so certain venmar is scum anymore. I do know you sort off clear it up but I'm still confused over the these voters are the same as kanye voters I'm being led astray thing, what do you mean?

[Cerulean]

And I hope you get well soon, Tammy.

Thank you. Me too!

[Cerulean]

Falcon - I love being called awesome just for finishing a wall! I'll comment on more of it later probably when I have a chance to go back and read through yesterday again, which won't happen tonight, but you asked what I thought about Plum and her case on UT. While I think it's wrong, I can see where she's coming from. I thought that her whole "look at this guy" thing looked townish. I guess the case making is kinda surprising as she was reluctant to make a case in attack on titan, but the presentation reminded me of camn in the wire with her "dear town" way of trying to get someone lynched. My first impression of Plum is that she's a bit more subtle as scum than as town. Also, I got the impression she was town for ~reasons~ anyway.

[Cerulean]

Apparently he recognizes that too! I feel like I'm in the wire all over again when he left me high and dry. ANYWAYS last time we talked because LLD was his big town read, he said that read had gone stale and I tried to fill him in on what had happened before ms went kablooey, he still agreed with me that ut was a strong town read and was like has venmar been lynched yet? I'm not even sure why he's so certain venmar is scum anymore. I do know you sort off clear it up but I'm still confused over the these voters are the same as kanye voters I'm being led astray thing, what do you mean?

Tammy. >:T I don't like answering the same question twice, I gave an answer to this earlier. But you think Reck, chamber and UT are all town right? I guess the core of it is I don't trust Reckoner. Do you think lynching LLD over Venmar would be a good idea at this point? That's the attitude where things are headed.

Well I don't want you to answer it in the same way! You're original answer didn't clear up my confusion, which is why I said I'm still confused. I literally have no clue what you mean by the LLD voters being the same as the kanye voters and you're wondering who's leading you astray. Explain it to me like I'm five? And dumb? And sick? And on medication? And extremely foggy and tired?

I'm still working on mulling over the LLD/Venmar thing. I talked to Empire last week about it, and while he agreed that what she said of her meta is consistent he also agreed with me that the problematic part is using it while being absent. My main problem is that if you're going to say you weren't around because of outside factors, then you can't appeal to your meta. I don't know if that makes sense, but it does in my head. He said he was fine with a vote move if I decided it that way since his early town read came from the way that she claimed her role and had largely dissipated after.

[Cerulean]

Apparently he recognizes that too! I feel like I'm in the wire all over again when he left me high and dry. ANYWAYS last time we talked because LLD was his big town read, he said that read had gone stale and I tried to fill him in on what had happened before ms went kablooey, he still agreed with me that ut was a strong town read and was like has venmar been lynched yet? I'm not even sure why he's so certain venmar is scum anymore. I do know you sort off clear it up but I'm still confused over the these voters are the same as kanye voters I'm being led astray thing, what do you mean?

Tammy. >:T I don't like answering the same question twice, I gave an answer to this earlier. But you think Reck, chamber and UT are all town right? I guess the core of it is I don't trust Reckoner. Do you think lynching LLD over Venmar would be a good idea at this point? That's the attitude where things are headed.

Oh forgot to answer your other question. I think that UT and chamber are town. Reck is a weak town read. There are some posts of his that I just really like, but I wouldn't bet the game on him being town.

[Cerulean]

@ Tammy, I mostly wanted to discuss your read on Reck after I go through a few of his games, that's why I didn't want to end the day. I haven't finished checking them out yet so I'll post some of my thoughts once I do that which is probably going to be tomorrow. What's your best guess at a scumteam at this point? Also, do you and Empire have any thoughts about NS? I remember reading a game where Empire figured out NS pretty quickly and I am wondering what he thought of his play here before he left.

I find NS extraordinarily hard to read. I think the only time I got his alignment right was in NY142, and that was largely how he behaved in lylo along with MoI being extremely manipulative in the neighborhood, which helped me get it right. Before that point, I'd thought NS was scum, and in yoloville, which is the game you're thinking about, I also tried to get him lynched when he was town. Empire hasn't given me any thoughts on NS, I think the last time he said anything about him was that he was in his poe pool? I dunno, empire hasn't responded to any of my posts today, and he typically goes out of town on the weekends, so he might be in transit or just out?

Anyway, unless he is a big buser, I'm not sure he'd come back and put his partner at L-1. We were partnered in kanye's water world game, but I can't remember if he bussed or not.

That's a lot to say I just don't know.

[Cerulean]

VOTE: LLD

Acting like it.

[Cerulean]

Vote: Venmar

We are making this happen today and I'm fucking pissed (mostly at myself).

[Cerulean]

IOh, he also said that Tammy knows Pless from offsite so Pless kill makes sense from Cerulean-scum (lol, I expect some good natured ribbing at Chamber from Tammy and Empire after the game ends).

heh...this only makes sense if someone doesn't understand how my mind works as not-town.

[Cerulean]

Well that and Tammy. But trying to vote Tammy would like, break my heart.

And I'm still p sure on Plum (possibly more now) so we could in theory get along for another day or two.

Also, I thought Chamber was a weak neighborizer and was softing an innocent on Plum.

[Cerulean]

I think Tampire is prob town. The only thing that kinda bothers me is that Tammy never yelled at me for not yelling at anybody.

You started the game yelling at people!

Plus, empire is pretty confident in Venmar!scum and thinks there's not a chance you guys are scum together. If Venmar comes back town, I'll reassess my world view, but.


~~~~~~~

mod - Tammy head will be v/la until next Wednesday. I have a busy week and family coming in to visit me. I should be able to post, but not a whole lot.

[Cerulean]

I'm still here! And going to read.

[Cerulean]

...so apparently, I didn't miss much.

I probably need to go through the game again, especially since I wasn't around for most of Day 3, but my reads haven't really changed. I still think Venmar needs to get deaded fast. Still strongly townreading Zdenek and F-16, still thinking NS, Reck, and UT are very probably town. Nero isn't scum with Venmar. And yet, I still can't shake the feeling that there's something very wrong with this game.

Maybe when I come back tonight drunk I'll have a flash of inspiration or something.

[Cerulean]

Well this is a fate worse than what I expected to happen to us last night...

Vote: Tim Howard

[Cerulean]

I don't know, I haven't really thought that far ahead. I expected to die last night so I didn't even reread the game like I wanted to. I'll be getting on that in this day phase.

The Shadoweh nightkill is really weird (to be completely honest, I was still really waffling on her alignment back when I was still paying attention to the game) and I'm wondering what motivated that.

Also, reminder:

Blue Guys - 1
Puppies - 0

P-edit: that was at F-16.