MS Fantasy Camp 2: Reaper's Tale! (Finished!)

[Flipping Awesome]

Can you provide a few thoughts on everyone in the game even if you don't have a concrete read?

[Nobody Special]

I'm voting for Nobody Special primarily because he's provided 0 content for the entire game and will continue to provide 0 content, and thus remain completely unreadable, whereas other people might actually do something readable in the future.

I may be unreadable, but at least I'm town (unlike you).

[Flipping Awesome]

Zdenek, Nero Cain, Tim Howard, Plum: how would you feel about wagoning Reck today?

[Cerulean]

I'm not sure falcon. I tried to get empire's thoughts a couple days ago, but that conversation pretty much went, "I'm still dealing with x, don't forget to book your plane tickets." And that's it.

The one thing I've been mulling over is Kanyes appeal to me to make sure th gets lynched. I've gone back and forth on distancing and a sign they're not partnered to thinking he was just trying to get at me in a way that would make me not want to lynch him.

As far as nightkills, I just don't know. Last time I tried to do nightkill analysis, I damn near cleared nacho who was just making weird kills for who knows what reason.

[Flipping Awesome]

Okay, why haven't you been asking for my thoughts? You were pretty aggressive in sorting me and working with me both D1 and D2 but in most of the later days D3 and beyond, almost all of our interactions have been initiated by me.

I wondered about the Kanye/TH interactions as well. Kanye was pretty "sure" Tim Howard was scum and I'm trying to figure out if it came from a sense of knowing Tim was scum or whether he was trying to push a mislynch on a townie.

because i wanted to lynch sangria and tim howard was not getting lynched. my votes there now, wheres yours? did you get over him?

no it wasnt? people were moving away from tim and no1 expressed any desire in moving towards his wagon. even venmar was a bigger wagon

hello, can the people who were voting timt howard but then decided they ddint awnt to vote him anymore once his claim came please explain the rationale that made that ability shift him from scum please kill him to town guess were not killing him on2 the next 1. you know who you are ty.

hey tammy if i get lynched im leaving it up 2 you to find out whos the scum that bailed the tim wagon after he claimed dont fuck this up like fire and ice

[Lost Butterfly]

Day 5, VC 8

Tim Howard - (4):

Cerulean, Untrod Tripod, Nobody Special, xRECKONERx

Nobody Special - (1):

Tim Howard

Not voting - (4):

Zdenek, Plum, Flipping Awesome,

Nero Cain

With

9

alive it takes

5

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 5:

18th of June at 9:45pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-06-18 16:45:21)

Nero Cain is V/la[/area]
Prodding Plum

[Cerulean]

You've been pretty much giving your thoughts? Were seeing the game in a somewhat similar way, but you're veering off on nightkill analysis which I'm not interested in. I'm no really sure what exactly you want from me, the past month hasn't really been slow for me and I haven't been around all that much, and empire has yet again pretty much just left me, which I shouldn't be frustrated about, but right now I just want to see if his last read was right and reset tomorrow or hurrah that this game might not make it to lylo. Right now I just want to go to sleep, and I will be here tomorrow baring one specific unlikely, though I suppose somewhat possible thing, I can focus more then when I have more information.

[Flipping Awesome]

I guess what I expected was for you to spend more time game solving and if you hadn't been running on auto-pilot, I'd be much more certain in my read on you. You have been posting elsewhere and I know I have been too but I expected a more involved late game from you. For instance, in the Wire, you spent quite a lot of time going over every possible scenario on who could be scum and walling about it. I also said I looked through a bunch of Venmar games and info-dumped to Penguin about them and I thought you'd be curious to see what I gathered from it especially since you are saying you don't really know who the final scum is. But, I still can't see how you can possibly be scum in this game whenever I read through your D1 and D2 play, so I am cool with giving you space and hammering Tim Howard if you really want and see what he flips.

[Cerulean]

You shouldn't have any doubts on your read on me and touché what the hell do you want me to do get a cattle prod and make people start doing something.

You literally just, like just, got out of a game with me where I didn't wall over who the scum were. In fact I'd say the last time I did wall over who the scum was was in yoloville in which I stated the the more I wall about things the more uncertain I become. Why the hell are you using old meta when you have new meta that is more current and displays how I've been feeling about games lately. I know you know better than to meta the way you are with that bs, please don't take a neat tip from peregrine. I was in a very very different place in the wire and even in that game I went through lulls in trying to figure the game out.

We've lynched two scum. We might be about to lynch a third. I don't get how you can't understand that I depending on this read for empire right now as he's been more right than I have so far. It's been a hard month for me, I just want to know what this read is so I don't waste my damn time. If I'm not game solving tomorrow and were still alive, yell at me then. Otherwise can you please leave me alone. I have something else that has to get done tonight and I'm tired. Like I have already said, I just want this day to end so I see if I need to reset or continue where I've been heading. I don't understand why that's hard to understand.

[Cerulean]

Also, I was a VIG in the wire. I was playing a day and a night game. Very different circumstances, I was way more invested because I mattered, my reads mattered, and it made me more invested until I died. And even then I get burnt out on days where I need a break before I jump back into it.

[Flipping Awesome]

Yeah, you are right. I still don't see how you can possibly be scum after your D1 and D2 play.

[Flipping Awesome]

I mean, there were times when I've been on autopilot as well. I just wanted to 100% sure in you being town because no matter how much I think about it, I can't nail down a read on Tim Howard so I looked to you to make sure I wasn't off on any of my townreads, most crucially, the one on you.

VOTE: Tim Howard

[Flipping Awesome]

* just wanted to be 100% sure in you being town.

[Lost Butterfly]

Sleeping. Flip tomorrow.

[Lost Butterfly]

Day 5, VC 8

Tim Howard - (5):

Cerulean, Untrod Tripod, Nobody Special, xRECKONERx, Flipping Awesome

Nobody Special - (1):

Tim Howard

Not voting - (3):

Zdenek, Plum,

Nero Cain

With

9

alive it takes

5

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 5:

18th of June at 9:45pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-06-18 16:45:21)

Nero Cain is V/la[/area]

[Lost Butterfly]

Day 5: ChannelDeadibird

Everyone was like "who do we kill, yo". Then they killed CDB before he flaked!

Tim Howard who were a ChannelDelibird fanboy and aligned with the

friends of mith

was lynched Day 5.

Deadline for night actions is 48ish hours. Countdown:(expired on 2014-06-20 09:45:38)

[Lost Butterfly]

Day 6: DeadingGoofball

Zdenek walked outside. He had cookies and shark pictures and his trusty as heck scumputer. Then someone ran him over. Alas, DGB was dead N was happy, though! There were like 7 people left, once this was done he could get back to answer burning earth's questions in his GTKAS.

Zdenek who was a DrippingGoofball fanboy and aligned with the

friends of mith

was died Night 6.

[Lost Butterfly]

Day 6, VC 0

Not voting - (7):

Cerulean, Plum, Nobody Special, Untrod Tripod, Flipping Awesome,

Nero Cain

, xRECKONERx

With

7

alive it takes

4

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 5:

30th of June at 3:30pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-06-30 10:30:56)

Plum is V/la.[/area]

[xRECKONERx]

u8gh

[Flipping Awesome]

Okay, so I thought about the game again after seeing Tim Howard's townflip and the two things I am sure of. One is that Nero Cain is still town. I'd be extremely surprised if he went after his scumbuddy the way he did with Venmar and the role only adds to that as I don't see two scum having the kind of role they do. Venmar's and Nero Cain's interactions about the role also don't come across as within scumbuddies.

The other is that Cerulean is town. Tammy catching Kanye off of a really good tell which was similar to Powerful Wizard also seems extremely unlikely to come from buddies. That and Kanye is a good scum player and I figured Cerulean wouldn't bus him for no reason at all. Even if they initially distanced, Tammy's follow-up of "does no one else see what I see with Kanye" comes across as super genuine and there are several unfakeable posts in D2 notably posts like ]. I considered the possibility that Cerulean could be scum but I can't see any way it makes sense so I'm pretty much going to eliminate them from my POE.

That was the easy part. So, two scum and two town in {Reck, UT, NS, Plum}. I'm going to go into a lot more detail on all four players probably later today.

[Nero Cain]

{Reck, UT, NS, Plum}.

I agree with that. I lean Reck + UT though.

but can you remind me of the "awesome tell" that Tampire used to peg Kayne.

[xRECKONERx]

It's not NS IMO based on his actions around the kanye wagon.

I'm not sure I agree on either of FA's two town "clears"... they're easily faked.

I would probably be fine lynching Plum or UT, regardless.

[Nero Cain]

yea....NS is a totes shot in the dark.

Maybe I'm bias 'cause I knew that I was town but Plum hopping on the Kayne lynch when I was the leading wagon and she could have easily hopped on me kind of makes me think town.

[Flipping Awesome]

@ Nero Cain, I was referring to the fact that Tammy knows Kanye gets reads off of his early interactions and his lack of developing reads from his vote on Sixty was a red flag. For instance, in the game I linked below, she found it suspicious but let him go and he went on to win the game.

Subject: Mini 1538: POWERFUL WIZARDS (SpyreX Lives!)

Kanye could also have pushed his Tierce vote more strongly; I'd have loved to have seen him do his early rvs thing where he's pushing to get reaction and he doesn't care who tries to stop him and he pushes against anyone who defies him just to get a read. But he didn't in this game.

Also, kanye's limp-wristed "but i wanna" is terrible too. You'd already posted; he had something to use for his early game push material for reactions and he just went wa-wa.

tammy i believe u dont quite understand the conditions under which i do what youre thinking of.

I think you typically get your best reads in the first few pages of the game, and I think when you're motivated you work to make that happen, and I don't really see that here.

Compare that to this game here:

can someonet ell me who i should sheep i dont wanna read those first pages

*twitch*

Also did noone seriously but me have a problem with Kanye's first post?

The thing is I can see the suspicion on Kanye and I absolutely hated that he just kinda floated into the early game with a "not gonna read these pages" given what i know about how he reads the early game. I let him talk me out of the suspicion on him in the Wizards game for a very similar thing. HOWEVER, he's dipped out of activity in other games before and I haven't seen him on skype in like a month, so I don't know if I'm giving him suspicion for something that's not. Though in the Wizard game he pretty much worked hard to manipulate any suspicion I had of him and walked a balancing act of trying not to inflame the paranoia I had on him.

Empire has him in his poe pool though, so IDK.

Also did noone seriously but me have a problem with Kanye's first post?

People saying that they're not reading bits of the thread seems like pretty standard stuff to me.

But iirc Kanye gets his best reads from the first few pages of the game. Empire says that he thought it was just MattP, but I'm pretty sure it's Kanye too. In the Wizards game, this bothered me too and I let it go, but I'm pretty sure this just isn't ordinary for kanye.

It just makes way too much sense as town. Why would she draw attention to her buddy's scumtell for no reason at all when she could have let him skate by and potentially win the game. That would be unnecessarily sabotaging the scumteam.

@ Reckoner, I explained the Cerulean read, as for the Nero Cain read, I feel it is quite obvious. Even putting aside their role, based on their D1 interactions, it feels pretty obvious that Nero/Venmar really wanted to get the other lynched and it didn't make sense as a bus nor does it feel like a bus. I don't find any of their interactions contrived at all. It didn't feel opportunistic or like something they had to do to distance from each other. Was there anything that bothered you?

[Flipping Awesome]

SIXTY HOW CAN I SHEEP YOU IF YOU KEEP VOTEHOPPING
-Nobody Special

You shouldn't be. Vote scumar with me!

vote:Venmar

learn to read me

Well calling me shit instead of explaining to me why my reason for suspecting you is wrong doesn't fill me with townie vibes and makes me think you lack basic social skills.

also everything you said about me =/= scum, being "wrong" (which, lol, i still don't think I was) isn't a scumtell

What's the pro-town motivation in miscategorizing the Kats lynch?
I have a town read on Kats
I have kats town meta that suggest its town
I have a scumread on a player voting kat
The seem like the only pro-town reasoning for you to be against a kats lynch and you had none of these so....poo-pooing away a lynch 'cause its a "policy lynch" despite no one even calling it a policy lynch or voting kat 'cause we don't like it.

I don't really have much of a case on Sangres other than gut/that early no lynch vote was dumb and some other reasoning I rather not go into right now. And mmmaaaayyybbbeee bussin' Kat.

BECAUSE YOU SAID THIS THE SAME POST YOU FUCKING EXPLAINED YOUR READ, WHICH IS AFTER I MADE MINE.
2) that is the worst reason i have ever seen to vote for someone, because you think someone else was bussing them... before you even have a flip... and considering the busser would be the better vote..THATS DUMB, NERO, DUMB.

Saying that Sangres may be bussin' kat=//= my Kat read.

once I told you that I was not voting Kat for policy why were you not all "U B LYING,Nero!!!"?

thats what im doing now smartass

Yes, NOW. Not back in 538/539 when I told you that I wasn't voting Kat for a pl.

i think kat is town because of this, you're still essentially scumreading him for policy/annoying reasons whether you want to admit it or not.

I will admit to some frustration but, a person that isn't giving any content is hard to read and is basically a coin flip. Not helping town and making yourself difficult to read don't seem like pro-town traits so me and anyone suspecting that seems pretty normal to me.

There's literally no reason for Venmar to be upset. He thought I was voting Kat for a pl, I told him I wasn't. Instead of just saying ok, and changing his stance he just blows the hell up over a misunderstanding? We should lynch Venmar and his fake rage today.

Also, I read through Nero Cain's scumgame and realized that the markers that I'm using for him aren't as good as I originally thought so I need a reset especially since my other head disagrees.

Or maybe PA is just an idiot and you shouldn't listen to her. Now vote scum Venmar with me.

it's not a non sequitar at all, I'm trying to get you to come over to the Venmar wagon

Funny that, I'm trying to get you to come over to the Nero Cain wagon. I can understand buy Venmar's as genuine more easily than Nero Cain's picks of easy targets for superficial reasons and then winning a logic war with Venmar.

???????
You know that this place is smurfed up when a player can play anti-town as smurf (like Kat!) and then the player that speculates that its not town gets called scum. This is why I kill Kat when I have bullets, though I haven't played with him in awhile so I didn't remember what he did as scum but there are players that are trolly/non-committal who flip scum so...

You had the same reaction to Sangres' "no lynch" vote.

I am not the only one that found Shadow dense/scummy for thinking that my name in blue made me town.

And I just don't like Venmar calling Kat a pl and then he flipped out when I told him it wasn't.

I don't really have any strong reads on Reck, UT, NS, Plum, KKB or you (though defending obv scum Venmar makes me worry!)

Maybe I'm wrong on TH. Didn't really care for his 787 but I don't really remember anything else that I absolutely hated. I guess I can ISO him and see.

The only other thing that slightly concerns me is LLD's claim. Its possible she could be claiming for town cred. Wanting to use her ability day 1 when there's very little information and is more likely to hit town doesn't seem like the best use of said power. I had her role - the no lynch thing in Nexus' WWE game so is she making the no lynch thing up? Its plausible that Minaday could deviate from the role so...idk.

These are some of the posts that make me think a Nero Cain/Venmar team is very unlikely not to mention Nero Cain was the counterwagon to Kanye as well. His reasoning for Venmar scum was pretty solid. Venmar was mischaracterizing the Kats lynch as a policy lynch when it was not and essentially whiteknighting a townie for poor reasons.