NY175: Sycamore Scuffle

[Juls]

Unvote

I said I'd unvote in a few hours.

I really dislike you at this moment.

[Boonskiies]

It's okay. Because I love you. I didn't want to go back on my word. Everyone would have been all, "OHHHHH, HE BE SCUM SCUM. HE DIDN'T TAKE HIS VOTE OFF LIKE HE SAID HE WOULD!!! DOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIYYYYYYYYY".

[shaddowez]

Aegor

: I did not quote all 157 of your posts, because that would be a bit excessive. However, the majority of what I did not post was the pissing matches you got into with SKOT or Wake, or random BS posts such as when you were responding to the Boon/Alina quarrel. What I did copy and paste below is over 30 posts that you have made, either questioning people's votes, making your own votes, or using fluff to make it look like you were trying to say something. In

two

posts, Post #1453 and Post #1553 you make some half-hearted attempts to give reasons for Hunter's vote. If you want to say I haven't gone through your ISO, feel free, but make sure you expand the spoiler before you do so. Now, without telling me to go read your posts, tell me (or point me to specific posts where you've done so) where you've provided meaningful, town-aligned content.

I also don't necessarily expect the Aegor wagon to go anywhere today. I fully believe that at some point the HS lynch will occur, but I refuse to be part of it until the replacement comes in. This is not me "artificially extending" the day, it is me placing a vote where I feel it belongs.

Additionally, I didn't say you had higher scumreads than HS, that was a general statement, mainly referring to myself (it actually makes sense in context of the whole sentence, less so when you break it apart like you did). I also read you as scum back in Post #1414 but hadn't placed a vote yet. My thoughts on you have nothing to do with what other people think/feel.

Spoiler: Useless Posts

VOTE: Wake88 for obvious reasons.

Because they perpetuate the nonsense that he posted in his initial post (50, I think).

Vote Aegor

... non-sense....but

this probably means you are town

but absolute bullying behavior meant to enforce and engage in group think and "borg mindset." (FYI for those that engage in HoS, this vote is meant at as slap in his face)

VOTE: SKOT

Also you have already been in games with me but do not know what has and has not finished.

How is that relevant? I am calling for a

policy

lynch. That

by definition

means that your alignment is irrelevant to me.

The walls...the walls...

Wow, Wake's post was long. I would not say it had that much content, though, probably because of its length. Wake, please just read the entire thread and comment after you are done.

I like Salamence's post. I still want to lynch Wake unless he tells us imminently what he gathered from his "reaction tests." His entire wall was just information instead of analysis (analysis = READS, if his entire goal was to elicit reactions).




If lurkers do not start posting, I will be pushing hardcore for their lynches.

VOTE: Wake

If you dont know who my comment was about, you dont deserve life

This is a bad vote.


The pissing match between Sala and Adrien is boring. I do agree with Sala, though: Adrien's posting feels incredibly fake, down to his manufactured vote on Sala. Either he has a totally inauthentic delivery, or he is scum. I am surprised that more posters do not feel the same way.


VOTE: HunterSeeker

28 pages is actually really short for a day one given I'm a survivor of FE:A and NY169 and ran Tales, but sure.

This game is not easily summarized, but here are some highlights:

-Wake made some really weird opening posts, gets wagoned, responds that bizarre posts were "reaction tests"
-SKOT lays out his playstyle, which conflict with conventional wisdom
-BP and farside go back-and-forth
-sala and adrien go back-and-forth
-I am town

Current lynchpool:

{Wake, Boonskiies, SKOT, BroodKing, HunterSeeker}

SKOT is like 95% PL.

Feedback on 808 would be appreciated everyone.

Your post is super dense and long, plus about a townread. Most people will not be interested in providing feedback.

May we please lynch HS now?

Adrien continues his fake-sounding posting.

@Aegor yea, I want to lynch him too, but I feel like lynching a lurker at this point is much less beneficial than lynching someone who is much more likely scum. That being said, Clusk is indeed a lurker, but his slip ups and the timing of his replace-out show that signs point to scum... Or at least it seems that way to me.

Do you then not think that there is any case on Hunter beyond lurking? Why do you mention Clusk even though you are not even voting him? Why are you not voting anyone? Why is HS much less likely to be scum?

And risk letting scum live for another day with no guarantee that we will actually be able to verify the PR claim.

Why bother speculating?

VOTE: clusk

feels soooooooooooooo good to Aegor....

Adrien is THE lynch today. I will fight tooth and nail for this. So, please, just sheep me now.

VOTE: HunterSeeker

And Aegor climbs higher on the Scum list. Feigned outrage,

arrogant

, refusing to answer questions, and generally anti-Town.

Oh no!

Tell me, Wake, do you own a mirror?

What have you even done this game, Aegor?

Do your own research, you donut.

You have

zero

good reason to vote for me, Aegor. Nor BP.

Maybe you should expend an ounce of effort and go through my ISO. Or read the thread. Both would tell you exactly why voting you is a great idea in more detail that you would be able to comprehend, clearly.

I'm disappointed that so many players are reacting badly to direct questioning. Shame on you for playing shitty, by actually trying to stifle inquiry, instead of promoting it and discussion.

Your questions are shitty and repetitive and useless. It is not my problem that you are incompetent.

It is what I do. What you are doing does not come close at all.

The point of being a good Townie is to ask questions and stimulate discussion. If that means pouring on the pressure, then that's what it's going to take.

Part of being a good townie is discerning where pressure should be applied. If you think that applying more pressure to Juls is a good idea, then your judgment is just bad.

All you're doing is teaching me that it's acceptable to be lazy and hide behind my ISO, instead of directly responding to direct questions which would in turn give you better reads. You're also teaching me that it's ok to fight questions, and discredit questions as crap, as if being transparent and straightforward is a bad thing.

No one is hiding behind an ISO. It is your responsibility to read this thread. No one has to answer the same question twice or present the same argument twice. That is what you are asking others to do.

OMG. Please die.

VOTE: HunterSeeker

What if Hunter

isn't

scum, and just used a random number to get reactions?

Then I suppose he will be allowed to live indefinitely, just like Wake, even though I would say there is a 0% chance we

ever

find out what "reactions" were elicited or how they were helpful. I say that the wagon should pick up speed.

@Alina and Boon:

BOOOOOOOOO-RRRRIIIIIIINNNNNNGGG. Please stop your spat.

For the record, my vote on HS has nothing to do with his "slip." I think 5 scum for 21 players is unlikely.

Yeh it was a stupid move all right. Certainly doesn't make me want to move my vote off him.

You should move your vote off of him and onto HS. Boonskiies is town, and I do not change scumreads to townreads very often.

He wants to lynch Hunterseeker for reasons other than that mafia count slip up

So...I am scummy because I have legitimate reasons for my votes?

and he hammered Clusk, after not once having voted him. Sure, he outright said he would hammer him

So...I am scummy because I do what I say I will do? Also, I did not hammer him. NM did. With a naked vote.

but the fact that he did it with no hesitation, to someone who flipped TOWN rubs me the wrong way.

So...I am scummy because I happen to vote town sometimes, just like everyone else on that wagon?

HunterSeeker is a newb who has shown the potential to be better than what he is right now.

How would you know whether he has that potential, or that he would be willing to realize it?

This is his second game on the site and he comes from epicmafia and therefore may be overwhelmed by the game currently since this is a LARGE NORMAL.

Or he is scum actively lurking.

Damon Gant has extensive experience on this site. He is used to this site's metagame and previously played in Large normals. Furthermore he promised content and in the timeframe in which he was available failed to provide any.

I agree completely. But can we at least wait for DG to be prodded/replaced?

I'm torn between boonskiies who we have a strong reason to believe lied about his claim and HS who may have slipped that he knew how many mafias we have and I was pushing the lynch for last night phase. Aegor, you're pushing hard for the HS lynch: what is your read on boonskiies?

I was scumreading him Day 1 and now I am townreading him very strongly, despite his irritating and obnoxious posting. I would sheep me on this, at least for the moment.

After that, there seems to be a lot of.....nothing. He's very defensive, seems to offer very little content unless he's echoing someone else's ideas, asks vague questions of people, offers little to no reasonings on his scumreads.

Are you really asking for reasoning for my scumreads? It should be pretty clear why I am scumreading HS.

he gives Aero a hard time about not joining the Clusk wagon

I gave Aero a hard time about just fueling the fire from a distance. He was withholding his votes for no good reason. That is scummy, and exactly what scum often do: push for mislynches while staying at a distance from them.

Hunter - An easy target - could be very similar to the Clusk wagon

Just because a target is easy does not make it bad.

Aegor

, could you please provide an updated list of your reads (at least scum), and some solid evidence as to why you think they're scum?

None of the active posters are pinging my scumdar strongly other than Aero. I will review the Clusk wagon again; I generally get my info from there.

Current lynch pool:
HS
DG
Brood
Aero

Still need to sort Burning_town and BP.

@Aegor
Broodking says that he's 100% certain Boonskiies is scum because he's being disruptive. Do you agree with this?

While Boonskiies' play is not productive, I think he is town. His reactions today and his defense of "I'm selfish" (!!!) actually ring genuinely town to me, although I admit freely that he is quite annoying. But we have way more compelling candidates for a lynch in HS and DG. I feel vehemently that we will regret not lynching this lurkers early on.

I was originally thinking that it was a good idea to lynch HS to see if Aero was scum.

HS should be lynched today. What if Aero flips town? Does HS get to live? Do you want to let a lurker whose alignment will

never

be determinable by his posting to live any longer than he absolutely must? If we do not lynch HS today, we will regret it. Big time.

In other news, I'm going to UNVOTE: , because Damon clearly is not actively lurking, just not coming online at all. If a replacement comes and we still haven't lynched anybody yet, then we'll see I guess. For now, I'm off that vote.

Aero, vote in your next post or I am voting you until one of us is dead.

It is not part of his act. Boonskiies is almost certainly town.

This game will remain at a standstill until we get our replacements.

Hi

DG's slot here

A few issues.

1) I'm town

2) I'm not lurking, I've been here like 2 days and am posting things as I get to them.

3) You've seen me-scum before, if I remember correctly. Me-scum lurks. I'm not lurking. So.

You will find over the course of your reading that I am very happy about a potential HS lynch at the moment, so while you are correct, you need not worry. Right now, at least.

I am kind of done with waiting for an HS replacement at this point. Can we please just lynch him?

Unfortunately, this lynch seems inevitable. When Hunter flips town, I think the next plan of action should be to lynch Aegor, because he's been on board to lynch lurkers, and has been pretty open about doing it as quick as possible before we can get reads.

Y'all be crazy.

What reads do you expect to get? What have you done to produce them? What do you still need to do to get them or develop them to your satisfaction this day?

Do I have the power to unilaterally end the day? No. Have I day-vigged anyone? No. Am I stopping you from posting? No. What I see is a game that is stalling. We have a decent wagon. No one is making any real effort to interact with the living players, and so we are all waiting for replacements that may come today or may come in two weeks. And somehow I am responsible for pushing this lynch through.

Don't like it? I suggest you build a case on someone else or ask incisive questions based on play. Otherwise, stop complaining about the situation that we all

collectively

have produced.

You're completely right, you are just one vote of nine people who agree with you. Having said that, you have been the most vocal about wanting HS gone very quickly.

I see no reason to dawdle without reason. As I said, this game is stalling. If it were not, I would be in no hurry whatsoever to lynch HS. But I am not going to sit here, bored, for however many days because people feel "uncomfortable" with a lynch while they make zero effort to push a better one.

So yea, if he flips town, you seem like scum to me. Also, while we're on the subject, you completely contradicted yourself here VV.
...
And then, just a day later, before HS gets replaced

No contradiction. At the time of the first post, I did have no such intention. My intentions changed.

So yea, while you're not the only one doing it, you've done it the most. So if he flips town, you seem scummier to me. If he flips scum, then you're going to look a lot less scummy to the rest of us. So you should really hope he's scum.

w/e

P-edit - Boon, how would unvoting him make the game move quicker?

Separated this out because I am super confuzzled.

[Aegor]

@Mirhawk

, so I'm voting for Aegor over Hunterseeker, right? I'm doing that because Aegor, this whole game, has only wanted one person gone, and has contributed not much more than wanting that one person.

Which is why your reject of my 1-1 offer makes no sense. If you are that convinced I am scum and the chance of my lynch today is low (as you admit), then there is no reason whatsoever you should not rid the game of a lurker and then get my auto-lynched the next day.

So please explain to me how your behavior makes any sense whatsoever.

They're always on the same page, and although I do really think Mirhawk is town, Aegor's interactions with him make me weary. All Aegor seems to do is want to lynch people as quickly as possible, (I know it's later in the week now, I'm talking about near the beginning of day 2), and it's not making him look town in my eyes. Hunter just seems like a deflection to me.

From what? The

nothing

that forms the rest of the substance of this game?

Unvote

I said I'd unvote in a few hours.

For a moment, I literally felt like I was going to shit my pants in anger. Then I just pooped because I had to. Now I am angry again.

What I did copy and paste below is over 30 posts that you have made, either questioning people's votes, making your own votes, or using fluff to make it look like you were trying to say something. In

two

posts, Post #1453 and Post #1553 you make some half-hearted attempts to give reasons for Hunter's vote.

It is so easy to dismiss content by calling it "fluff" and "half-hearted." Sadly for you, the content remains. If you want me to include references to particular posts of HS and an analysis of why said posts are self-evidently scummy, let me know. But do not even bother trying to say that my case is insubstantial when you could have asked what I meant over 300 posts ago and received thorough and detailed elaboration.

If you want to say I haven't gone through your ISO, feel free, but make sure you expand the spoiler before you do so. Now, without telling me to go read your posts, tell me (or point me to specific posts where you've done so) where you've provided meaningful, town-aligned content.

Any post calling for HS' lynch is meaningful, town-aligned content.

I also don't necessarily expect the Aegor wagon to go anywhere today. I fully believe that at some point the HS lynch will occur, but I refuse to be part of it until the replacement comes in. This is not me "artificially extending" the day, it is me placing a vote where I feel it belongs.

How noble of you. I will continue doing the same.

[Boonskiies]

As much as I want this game to move on, stuff is seemingly happening now. I didn't feel quite right voting Hunter yet, but meh. Granted, I'll probably hammer if it gets to L-1. For the sake of hammering.

[Aeronaut]

@Mirhawk

, so I'm voting for Aegor over Hunterseeker, right? I'm doing that because Aegor, this whole game, has only wanted one person gone, and has contributed not much more than wanting that one person.

Which is why your reject of my 1-1 offer makes no sense. If you are that convinced I am scum and the chance of my lynch today is low (as you admit), then there is no reason whatsoever you should not rid the game of a lurker and then get my auto-lynched the next day.

So please explain to me how your behavior makes any sense whatsoever.

Because I feel like a deal like that wouldn't work. Sure, you yourself can say "Vote me tomorrow if I'm wrong today", but that doesn't necessarily mean that the town will do it. I don't think the town would nessessarily vote for you just because you ask them to, which makes it sort of a null offer. So more for that reason, I guess.

They're always on the same page, and although I do really think Mirhawk is town, Aegor's interactions with him make me weary. All Aegor seems to do is want to lynch people as quickly as possible, (I know it's later in the week now, I'm talking about near the beginning of day 2), and it's not making him look town in my eyes. Hunter just seems like a deflection to me.

From what? The

nothing

that forms the rest of the substance of this game?

See, that's the problem. All you see is HS. Are you telling me every other person seems null or town to you? That's obviously not true, or hopefully not true.

[Aeronaut]

As much as I want this game to move on, stuff is seemingly happening now. I didn't feel quite right voting Hunter yet, but meh. Granted, I'll probably hammer if it gets to L-1. For the sake of hammering.

It's at L-1.

[TheAdrienC]

As much as I want this game to move on, stuff is seemingly happening now. I didn't feel quite right voting Hunter yet, but meh. Granted, I'll probably hammer if it gets to L-1. For the sake of hammering.

It's at L-1.

Actually, he's at L-2 thanks to Boon unvoting.

[Aeronaut]

As much as I want this game to move on, stuff is seemingly happening now. I didn't feel quite right voting Hunter yet, but meh. Granted, I'll probably hammer if it gets to L-1. For the sake of hammering.

It's at L-1.

Actually, he's at L-2 thanks to Boon unvoting.

Well that's pretty shitty.

[Aegor]

Because I feel like a deal like that wouldn't work. Sure, you yourself can say "Vote me tomorrow if I'm wrong today", but that doesn't necessarily mean that the town will do it. I don't think the town would nessessarily vote for you just because you ask them to, which makes it sort of a null offer. So more for that reason, I guess.

I am publicly staking my life on this. I hardly consider the offer void when three players all voted for me within hours. If HS flips town, I have little doubt that you will find the support your need.

See, that's the problem. All you see is HS. Are you telling me every other person seems null or town to you?

Most seem null, as they should. HS' flip will sort most players.

That's obviously not true, or hopefully not true.

Then maybe you should just STFU until you start coming out with all the reads and cases you are demanding other players produce.

[Juls]

You. Could. Make. It. Less. Shitty.



Oh, and hey AdrienC, still not responding to my post I see?

[Aegor]

Well that's pretty shitty.

I blame you specifically for that, since you express clear suspicion of HS but refuse to vote him. shadow is also culpable.

[TheAdrienC]

One more vote and Boon keeping his word, he's as good as lynched. As it was said many times, this lynch is inevitable. We just need to learn from whatever his flip ends up being.

[Aegor]

Juls, are you calling an Aero/HS scumteam?

[Juls]

No. I think it is more likely they are opposite teams and this multiball. I feel like aero decided to white knight a "lurker" crept that lurker is scum. But there are so many scummy people in this game I am not sure of anything.

[Juls]

Crept=except

[TheAdrienC]

Juls, are you calling an Aero/HS scumteam?

If they were the same scumteam, Aero would have probably bussed him a long time ago.

[Aegor]

Adrien, notscience's entry was whack, as you noted with your WTF comment. Do you have any opinions on the slot?

[Juls]

Hey Aegor, remember when you said that you would be suspicious of Adrien if he continued to ignore my posts despite me spelling his name correctly? Those were good times eh?

[Aeronaut]

Because I feel like a deal like that wouldn't work. Sure, you yourself can say "Vote me tomorrow if I'm wrong today", but that doesn't necessarily mean that the town will do it. I don't think the town would nessessarily vote for you just because you ask them to, which makes it sort of a null offer. So more for that reason, I guess.

I am publicly staking my life on this. I hardly consider the offer void when three players all voted for me within hours. If HS flips town, I have little doubt that you will find the support your need.

See, that's the problem. All you see is HS. Are you telling me every other person seems null or town to you?

Most seem null, as they should. HS' flip will sort most players.

That's obviously not true, or hopefully not true.

Then maybe you should just STFU until you start coming out with all the reads and cases you are demanding other players produce.

When did I demand other players produce a read? I believe Mirhawk did that, though. Maybe you're thinking of him.

And even if he did, there's nothing wrong with asking players for their reads. It's the point of the game. If someone doesn't have reads, their useless to the town.

And i've linked you my reads several times, even given a color coded list. Your point is null.

Well that's pretty shitty.

I blame you specifically for that, since you express clear suspicion of HS but refuse to vote him. shadow is also culpable.

Nope. No suspicion of HS. I don't think he's scum. So I wont vote him. If you can find the point where I said I thought he was scum today, and didn't vote for him for no reason, I'll reneg my vote and hammer him right now. However, there is no such post, so that won't be happening. Please stop making up things you thought I've said.

[Aegor]

Juls, are you talking about this post?

[Juls]

Juls, are you talking about this post?

If you are talking about 1416 then yes. That link just takes me to the top of page 57.

[Aeronaut]

Sorry if the above post is hostile, I'm just frustrated.

Shadows, I don't understand the point of posting Aegor's entire ISO at the end of that post earlier.

Oh yea, and where is Notscience been? I guess it hasn't actually been that long, but still.

[Aegor]

@Juls

:Yes, I was. The link does work with my browser, so I believe (no offense) that the problem is on your end.

[Juls]

@Juls

:Yes, I was. The link does work with my browser, so I believe (no offense) that the problem is on your end.

It might be. I am on my ipad.