NY175: Sycamore Scuffle

[Toomai]

Votecount D2-4

Sharpest-knife-on-tree	L-10	0	—
TheAdrienC	L-9	1	HunterSeeker
reinoe	L-10	0	—
Wake88	L-9	1	reinoe
Burning_TowN	L-10	0	—
shaddowez	L-10	0	—
Damon_Gant	L-6	4	BP, Not_Mafia, Alina, Aeronaut
Mirhawk	L-10	0	—
Not_Mafia	L-10	0	—
Aegor	L-10	0	—
Scarab	L-10	0	—
Boonskiies	L-8	2	Burning_TowN, BroodKingEXE
BroodKingEXE	L-9	1	Boonskiies
Juls	L-10	0	—
Aeronaut	L-10	0	—
HunterSeeker	L-6	4	Juls, Sharpest-knife-on-tree, Wake88, Aegor
BP	L-10	0	—
Alina	L-10	0	—

Not voting:

TheAdrienC, Damon_Gant, Mirhawk, Scarab, shaddowez
With

18

alive it takes

10

to lynch.

Activity

Burning_TowN is V/LA until 15/07/2014.

Current deadline

04/08/2014 12:06 (EDT)
(expired on 2014-08-04 12:06:20)

[Aegor]

Someone please explain to me why Damon_Gant is a superior choice to HS.

[TheAdrienC]

Your ENTIRE ISO. Unedited. The only thing I'm going to do is bold any mention of me being fake and take out spoiler tags. Let's see how many explanations we got in this.

Spoiler:

/confirm

UNVOTE:
I should be able to post tonight (at work right now)

OK, I am going to do this 10 pages at a time. I will place my vote when I get fully caught up.

Pages 1 thru 10

I am town reading Not_Mafia, SKOT, Slamence20
I am scum reading TheAdrienC, Clusk92
I am flip-flopping back and forth on farside22, Alina, Wake88

My town read on Not_Mafia is because he is asking questions that seem relevant to me. I especially like post 96 because he challenges Wake on his claim of reaction testing and his response to Burning_Town in 212 about them making a judgement call on Wake based on "getting us out of RVS".

My town read on SKOT comes from his abrasiveness regarding "patty-caking" and his OMGUS "slap in the face" vote of Aegor. I am not crazy about this and I worry we are going to butt heads but I am more and more reading this type of thumbing-your-nose-up-at-site-meta as a town thing. Until someone proves me wrong I am going to stick with that reading. I also think Aegor comes off looking bad in the exchange for suggesting we policy lynch SKOT and then voting him for his "slap in the face" vote (which is essentially the same thing as policy-lynching). However, I am not sure hypocrisy is strictly a scum-tell so I am not ready to lean scum on Aegor yet.

I can't really put a finger on one thing I like about Slamence20, it's just a gut-type read right now.

My scum read on AdrienC is based on several things. First his FOS of wake without a vote followed by a vote on Wake but then asking people not to hammer in the same breath.

His posts 149 and 154 feel forced

and he apologized to SKOT for being suspicious of him and has been white knighting. In general, I haven't seen a single post from Adrien to make me think he is town.

My scum read on Clusk is weak but it's mainly to do with his trying to push Salamence's "vote for wake" comments as a manipulation and a scum-tell.

OK, I am scared to go down the rabbit-hole with farside22 but I guess I have to. I have played two recent games with farside22 and both games I knew she was town from like the first 4 or 5 posts. I am not getting a strong town read on her here and that is making me nervous. If it is still relevant (might not be) I would like her to at least address a couple things: in post 144 where you call wake a bad-town read as opposed to scum. What differentiates him as bad-town vs. scum? Also, how do you feel your pushing on Clusk about the definition of manipulate led into your read of him? I admit I feel like a hypocrite because I scum read him based on his pushing of Salemance's manipulation but I felt like your hounding him on "definitions" just came off as a little too much of nothing. If you can elaborate on what you gained from it I would appreciate it. From the town-side of my farside read I have liked her vote on clusk, her paranoia over Alina buddying her, and her stance on not-policy-lynching SKOT.

Alina, my main waffling on her revolves around all the buddying she is doing of farside. I noted it in one, two, three places. I am trying to decide if this is a scum-scum, town-town, or scum-town association. But I don't think it is Alina town/farside scum associating. I guess it could be but that is the least likely to me. There have been some townie posts from her though.

I don't know what to think about Wake. He is just all over the place. I joined the majority in hating his first post but then the aggressiveness with which he defended it seems kinda townie.

So that's all I have time for tonight. I will try to do at least another 10 pages tomorrow night. If I was going to vote, it would definitely be on TheAdrienC at this point.

Alright I will pre-apologize but I am going to do this a page at a time until my daughters danc class is over because I am on my ipad and jumping back and forth between notepad and the browser like I do on my. PC is not happening on this. So....

Page 11

-Wake's enormous wall is a massive word count of saying one thing:

reaction test

-I don't like Mirahawks 269. It's pushing a very weak argument and I think Scarab's responses have been what I would expect from town.
-Salamance's 271 is fantastic except where he goes off the rails on SKOT.
-Aegors 274 is the first post I got town vibes from but I don't like the push to lynch lurkers. He keeps making policy-lynch threats but isn't doing too much scum hunting.

Page 12

-Aegor 279: is he seriously accusing boon of role fishing....for a scum role? bad vote.
-Adrien 287.

This post is so fake.

First the p-edit is not real. He is putting the p-edit at the top? Second, I hate how he finger wags at wake and says he is taking his vote off but he's watching him, etc. I also hate the "I'm not your friend" speech. This whole post feels like what Adrien "thinks" town should sound like but it just comes off completely manufactured. And then the vote on boon is just ridiculous. He says he wanted to keep his head low but why in the world would boon have posted "hmmm" if he was trying to lay low? That just brought attention to him. I disagree with Salamance that adrien is bussing wake. I think Adrien is scum and wake is probably bad-town like farside said.
-Town read on Alina is growing. If you are town, stop being so tentative. Trust your gut. If you are scum I will never believe the innocent routine again!

This is the only one where you generate any explanation of it but you didn't really explain how IT is fake. You said the P-Edit was fake. I started writing, saw new posts, edited my posts. Is sense of time something that can be faked? You said I posted something I thought town would post but never said what sounded like that. You just called the whole post, in general, something that I thought I should post to make myself look like town.

I responded to accusations and questions directed at me in that post. I posted my God honest opinions on who I thought was scum in that post. I don't see how that was fake. Your explanation did not break down and EXPLAIN WHY it was fake, you just said you hated how I took my vote off Wake and voted on Boon after I said that I would vote for him if you posted another post without any content to it. Excuse me for following through on my promises (something that I do not feel can be misconstrued as fake).

Page 13

-Stupid self vote is stupid. Let's see who takes the bait. I predict the policy lynching king Aegor.

(Oh, I just remembered something I forgot to say on page 12.

That big post from Adrien, he also copies farside with definition shit. This guy is seriously fake

)

-Hmmm, day vig shenanigans. Since we are still d1, I assume this is fake.

I responded to that earlier but still don't see how that is fake.

Page 14

-Why is BP rehashing things he has already commented on?

We will. I still don't know how to read you. You're either scum or just that looney guy in the village that always tries to make up conversation with the other people in the cafés and that goes to the hardware store on purpose to make friends and to pretend he's having a conversation but that no one takes seriously ultimately. So you're either that or you're scum trying to look that way

I LOL'd, you can be town.

-I'm liking Scarab more and more.
-Uh, this is a terrible claim by SKOT and my town read on him just completely reversed. No town would question the validity of a daykill then claim. More non-townieness from SKOT.

- Oh look more fake hysterics from Adrien.

Page 15

-No comments, just theory talk.

Page 16

-

If AdrienC is town, I am probably never going to be able to read him ever. This guy is so scummy/fake

.
-SKOT, if you are town, repeat after me..."what I did was dumb, I should not have claimed, I made a bad move." And holy shit I need to meta Aegor to see if he always policy lynches instead of scum hunting!

Page 17

-Oh wow, SKOT actually showed some remorse. I wasn't expecting that. Now I don't know how to feel.

Page 18

Scarab vs BP feels like town on town.

I'm done for now, daughters class is almost over and my eyes are glazing over. I might do a few more pages before bed but no guarantees.

Was too tired to read tonight, will definitely get caught by Friday at latest.

First my catch up post (some of it may or may not make sense anymore but I am not editing it)

(some URLs fixed by Toomai)

The AdrienC post 498 is dumb. Nobody is going to claim scum tracker so what's the fucking point?

Alina post 501 - Why does it matter that Damon has posted? What about his post made you think he was so town?

Damon_Gant, post 502 - second post of the game where he says he has a lot of town reads but doesn't elaborate. Two posts that are full of nothing. Anybody can say "I have a bunch of town reads. Thanks y'all, see ya later"

Burning_Town, post 507: How is making light of rule breaking and being a douche a scum tell? Why is reinfoe not a scumspect since he was "placing bets"?

Around 516 - All the suspicion of Boonskies seem opportunistic. It's clear to me the guy is just cutting up and people are latching on to that as a scum tell. He may be scum but not for anything he has done so far.

Salamence20, post 518 is super town. I don't agree with him/her 100% on SKOT but the arguments are sound (except the random vote one) and I 100% agree with his/her read on Boonskies.


Aeronaut post 523 --- learn sarcasm. You too clusk.

Not_Mafia is town

AdrienC - information gathering is not necessarily a town tell. I also hate when people do VCA with no analysis. Information is good, information without analysis is useless.

Hunterseeker post 536 is odd.


Hmmm, not liking this flashwagon on Hunterseeker. Not that I don't like the wagon, but I don't like the reasons. I am reading Hunterseeker as a troll at this point. So null. I like this post by BP for acknowledging this. And another opportunistic vote by Aeronaut.

Really dislike post 589 by Damon_Gant. He just grabbed a spattering of players and posted not-very-deep commentary on him. Geez, he even looked at my slot who I think had 3 posts? And then he jumps on the flashwagon. He is now in my scum column.

AdrienC - LOLOLOLOLOL

I'm starting to have a problem with the way Wake's posts are coming off. It might be a style thing but I feel like his posts are too forced. I don't know if I can explain it properly but the linked is an example. I'm probably still a little gun-shy to call him scum for it but it's just something I have been noticing. Another example in 601. The puffed-chest comment. And 604 with the snapping at Not_Mafia. Both feel over the top.

AdrienC - What?. My vote will reside on this guy until he ceases to exist. I pray a vig has already killed him in the night.

shaddowez 611: Hmmm, this is interesting that he chose to vote Clusk instead of HS when he suspects HS and HS is the leading wagon. If we find out that HS is scum or shaddowez is scum, this is a potential buddy-association to remember.

More policy-lynch hunting by Aegor instead of scum-hunting.

shaddowez post 621 - why the big case on Boonskies and instead keeping vote on Clusk where the case is much weaker?

I like farside's 626. Particularly the Aegor part. But knowing Clusk's flip I doubt scum-farside would be so "sure" in a read she knew was town, although if it's multiball that goes out the window. Another good post by farside. I didn't notice this.

AdrienC translation: I will go whereever the wind of suspicion is blowing

OK, I am getting really annoyed at reading the style of Wake's posts, so I am pretty much putting him on ignore and letting the rest of you figure him out. All his posts seem forced in their delivery but I am not necessarily getting a scum-read from the content of them so I just can't read him.

Contrast that with AdrienC who I find everything he says to be scummy and fake/forced

.


This is a town post by BP.

LOL, fake.. And fuck yeah to BP. Note to self: play more games with BP, I like this kid.

Oh look it's me. Hi me!

What the hell, Aegor? This whole post is great except for the vote. Why vote HS while you are making your case on AdrienC?

Also, I am just coming off a game where scum claimed town-commuter so I REALLY am disliking AdrienC's claim.

Note to self, if Alina ever suspects me, claim anything and her suspicion goes Poof!

@farside: Um, I don't think salamance provoked Adrien to claim at all. Adrien did that for no apparent reason.

AdrienC - what kinda of sense does this make?

Fantastic analysis by this player. Let's see who actually read it.

I wouldn't know but a question for

SKOT

, do you find this post to be buddying or not? You seem to have some experience with this player.

Who the hell is this guy? How am I on page 30 and seeing this name for the first time? This slot is either scum or seriously needs to replace out because this is unacceptable as town.

Adrien and Alina sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G...ugh, you guys need to get a room. {this was petty, but seriously...after the game, you guys should chat...maybe meet up...you are obviously smitten. There's no shame in it, I met my husband online...we have been married 11 years}....I am loopy right now....too much reading.

@Aeronaut why did you provide reads on this set of people in particular?

Even though it turned out to be wrong, I can see this as a good argument from Not_Mafia

@farside. Look up in this wall a bit, I noted one BP post in particular I felt was town but I have in general liked their posting. I could probably dig up more specific things if the ones I mention here doesn't strike you as town but I don't know that it is necessary at this point. For the most part, its been them saying/posting things I thought to myself as I was reading through.

Also, @farside: Why did it take you so long to come to this conclusion about Damon?

Good job SKOT, maybe we will get along after all.

Aeronaut's over-defense of a non-case is noted.

reinoe, spoiler that shit.

And BP/Scarabare back at it...

@Alina: I hope you mean you ISO'd HS instead of Clusk, otherwise this post makes zero sense. Ah, yeah, you did.Good.

This is an interesting question to ask. Probably not scum.


General note:

I feel like TheAdrienC's V/LA was meant to look as if he was "gone" in the night

but in reality he has posted a lot during the night on-site and last visited today (Saturday).

VOTE: AdrienC

Also, it looks like its multi-ball.

Crap, Mod, can you fix my last four URLs. I meant to double check that but I didn't

Yep.

Adrien is THE lynch today. I will fight tooth and nail for this. So, please, just sheep me now.

And crap, I forgot to add my reads list:

Town - Not_Mafia,

Salamence20/Cabd

, Alina, Scarab, Boonskies, BP
Scum - AdrienC, Mirahawks, Damon_Gant, Aeronaut

Back/Forth -

farside

, Wake, SKOT

Unknown - Aegor, everyone else(?)

Awww shucks, I thought I made a love connection.

5 would be weird if we are multiball unless we have a serial killer? I'm not sure if SK counts in multiball. This is a new term for me.

And Not_Mafia, you seem very town. Please join my lynch Adrien cause. I promise it will be worth it.

Hunter seeker, if you are town now is the time to stop trolling. I will let them lynch you!

If HS ends up being town I will report him to the mafia gods for playing against his win condition.

You are absolutely doing number 3. If you can't play the fucking game then don't play the fucking game. I am not appealing to emotion, I am stating fact. And you will not be allowed to live until end game because you are just a troll or scum.

Fuck this.
Adrien can wait (and it pains me to say that because I have been waiting all night to push his lynch). This guy can't be town. He's trying to plant seeds of linkage.


VOTE: Hunterseeker

Those people were the people who we were talking about at the time, and I had some limited posting time, so I figured it's better to give a read on them than nobody at all.

If I recall, Salamance/Adrien weren't being discussed as serious lynch candidates. Sure they had their argument but I don't think anyone latched on to that. It seems odd you would provide reads on them alongside HS and Clusk.

P-edit: HS has pissed me off, Adrien is still my lynch of choice but I can't deny how blatant HS is being and he will just be a distraction. Seriously, he tried to make an argument about bussing Adrien and then being a scum-partner with me. What town motivation would he have for doing that? Now do you want to passive aggressively call me scum or actually do it? Hint: the former is a scum-trait.

Hunterseeker is saying"blue" because he is from epicmafia: https://epicmafia.com/user/318243#/

If HS ends up being town I will report him to the mafia gods for playing against his win condition.

oh I hate that crap... someone claiming such... pure bullshit

You have such a stick up your ass when anyone says anything in line with site meta. Tell me then SKOT, how is making two comments about scum-buddies as town playing to your wincon?

Knowing that someone travelled to nowhere is useful info as well. Or are you claiming role locked. Being coy is not helpful.

I think Juls was onto something with his analysis in post eh 964. It was very good. It had me convinced really. I mean if I WERE MAFIA (im not, i just hard claimed blue), but IF I WERE MAFIA, I would bus adrien instantly. YES.

How is this town SKOT?

Note to self: actually Juls's interaction with me had been great had we been a maf team, Juls seems genuinely upset and I shud get towncred for fishing reactions. I mean no one would believe we are teamed even if one of us flip maf. /end note to self

How is this town SKOT?

Knowing that someone travelled to nowhere is useful info as well. Or are you claiming role locked. Being coy is not helpful.

you paying attention to the game at all. You should be able to add 1+1...
I did not act on an odd night...

Did you claim even night tracker? I just read a 39 page game, please be forgiving if I missed a detail or two.

I did think he was a town-troll until he started to throw that WIFOM shit out. Now I think he is planting seeds for whenever he is lynched, so let's get it out of the way.

My point is that if he is a town doing this then he is playing against his wincon. But I don't care that much about him getting punished, I can just personally blacklist him. So I will rescind my theat to report him. So can you stop plying Robinhood now and actually explain to me the town motivation of placing that WIFOM?

I also forgot to add in the wifom of the town/mafia count.

Fucking ipad just lost my long ass response to wake. The Tldr of it is you are talking to people like they are children and it is likely a style thing. I tend to town read your content but get hung up on the style in which you say it. Also, why did you not comment on HS's wifom? You just surface read that whole exchange and rehashed it instead of reading the reasons that are clearly and succinctly presented about HS.

And is it fair to say I flip-flopped? Only on HS. I still scum read Adrian. HS I was town-troll reading until he pulled that wifom shit.

If you want me to respect your words and wisdom then don't be an ass hole in the way you address people. You can find scum without being so in people's face. Hint: most of us aren't scum so stop talking to us like we are all caught-scum.

HS is scum for saying the scum/town ratio ( so we will be put off by it when he gets lynched), for saying he 'would bus Adrian' if he were scum buddies with Adrian, while a voting for Adrian, and for saying he and I couldn't be scum buddies together which is setting up for you to lynch me when he flips scum.

Adrian is scum because he is fake as fuck

. I will not repost every instance of it that I noted because you can hit that little 'ISO' by name to see them. And he constantly shifts with where the wind of suspicion is floating.

P-edit: read my catchup post. I have recently finished a game where scum claimed commuter so it is highly suspect to me on top of all the other reasons I am scum reading him.

Are you joking wake? I absolutely gave my reasons sbout Adrien but I am not going to link all the posts again when you can just look at my ISO. In case you aren't aware, doing links on an ipad is a pain in the ass.

Using your brain and your fingers isn't, Juls.

Look at his posts, and post in 4 sentences exactly why you find Adrien Scummy.

Is that too difficult?

I'm done with you. I did what you asked. You can fucking do what I said or not. I truly don't give a shit. If you want to vote me for doing exactly what you asked then good luck with getting me lynched.

Thank you not_mafia. Maybe you can do a better job of getting through to him on how he is acting.

Wake I literally have a very succinct ISO since I was catching up and not having conversations with people. I have my summary of the game in about 6-8 posts. You are just being an ass hole by not reading it and making it out like I am doing something wrong by pointing you to it.

OK, I am going to do this 10 pages at a time. I will place my vote when I get fully caught up.

Pages 1 thru 10

I am town reading Not_Mafia, SKOT, Slamence20
I am scum reading TheAdrienC, Clusk92
I am flip-flopping back and forth on farside22, Alina, Wake88

My town read on Not_Mafia is because he is asking questions that seem relevant to me. I especially like post 96 because he challenges Wake on his claim of reaction testing and his response to Burning_Town in 212 about them making a judgement call on Wake based on "getting us out of RVS".

My town read on SKOT comes from his abrasiveness regarding "patty-caking" and his OMGUS "slap in the face" vote of Aegor. I am not crazy about this and I worry we are going to butt heads but I am more and more reading this type of thumbing-your-nose-up-at-site-meta as a town thing. Until someone proves me wrong I am going to stick with that reading. I also think Aegor comes off looking bad in the exchange for suggesting we policy lynch SKOT and then voting him for his "slap in the face" vote (which is essentially the same thing as policy-lynching). However, I am not sure hypocrisy is strictly a scum-tell so I am not ready to lean scum on Aegor yet.

I can't really put a finger on one thing I like about Slamence20, it's just a gut-type read right now.

My scum read on AdrienC is based on several things. First his FOS of wake without a vote followed by a vote on Wake but then asking people not to hammer in the same breath. His posts 149 and 154 feel forced and he apologized to SKOT for being suspicious of him and has been white knighting. In general, I haven't seen a single post from Adrien to make me think he is town.

My scum read on Clusk is weak but it's mainly to do with his trying to push Salamence's "vote for wake" comments as a manipulation and a scum-tell.

OK, I am scared to go down the rabbit-hole with farside22 but I guess I have to. I have played two recent games with farside22 and both games I knew she was town from like the first 4 or 5 posts. I am not getting a strong town read on her here and that is making me nervous. If it is still relevant (might not be) I would like her to at least address a couple things: in post 144 where you call wake a bad-town read as opposed to scum. What differentiates him as bad-town vs. scum? Also, how do you feel your pushing on Clusk about the definition of manipulate led into your read of him? I admit I feel like a hypocrite because I scum read him based on his pushing of Salemance's manipulation but I felt like your hounding him on "definitions" just came off as a little too much of nothing. If you can elaborate on what you gained from it I would appreciate it. From the town-side of my farside read I have liked her vote on clusk, her paranoia over Alina buddying her, and her stance on not-policy-lynching SKOT.

Alina, my main waffling on her revolves around all the buddying she is doing of farside. I noted it in one, two, three places. I am trying to decide if this is a scum-scum, town-town, or scum-town association. But I don't think it is Alina town/farside scum associating. I guess it could be but that is the least likely to me. There have been some townie posts from her though.

I don't know what to think about Wake. He is just all over the place. I joined the majority in hating his first post but then the aggressiveness with which he defended it seems kinda townie.

So that's all I have time for tonight. I will try to do at least another 10 pages tomorrow night. If I was going to vote, it would definitely be on TheAdrienC at this point.

Alright I will pre-apologize but I am going to do this a page at a time until my daughters danc class is over because I am on my ipad and jumping back and forth between notepad and the browser like I do on my. PC is not happening on this. So....

Page 11

-Wake's enormous wall is a massive word count of saying one thing:

reaction test

-I don't like Mirahawks 269. It's pushing a very weak argument and I think Scarab's responses have been what I would expect from town.
-Salamance's 271 is fantastic except where he goes off the rails on SKOT.
-Aegors 274 is the first post I got town vibes from but I don't like the push to lynch lurkers. He keeps making policy-lynch threats but isn't doing too much scum hunting.

Page 12

-Aegor 279: is he seriously accusing boon of role fishing....for a scum role? bad vote.
-Adrien 287. This post is so fake. First the p-edit is not real. He is putting the p-edit at the top? Second, I hate how he finger wags at wake and says he is taking his vote off but he's watching him, etc. I also hate the "I'm not your friend" speech. This whole post feels like what Adrien "thinks" town should sound like but it just comes off completely manufactured. And then the vote on boon is just ridiculous. He says he wanted to keep his head low but why in the world would boon have posted "hmmm" if he was trying to lay low? That just brought attention to him. I disagree with Salamance that adrien is bussing wake. I think Adrien is scum and wake is probably bad-town like farside said.
-Town read on Alina is growing. If you are town, stop being so tentative. Trust your gut. If you are scum I will never believe the innocent routine again!

Page 13

-Stupid self vote is stupid. Let's see who takes the bait. I predict the policy lynching king Aegor.

(Oh, I just remembered something I forgot to say on page 12. That big post from Adrien, he also copies farside with definition shit. This guy is seriously fake)

-Hmmm, day vig shenanigans. Since we are still d1, I assume this is fake.

Page 14

-Why is BP rehashing things he has already commented on?

We will. I still don't know how to read you. You're either scum or just that looney guy in the village that always tries to make up conversation with the other people in the cafés and that goes to the hardware store on purpose to make friends and to pretend he's having a conversation but that no one takes seriously ultimately. So you're either that or you're scum trying to look that way

I LOL'd, you can be town.

-I'm liking Scarab more and more.
-Uh, this is a terrible claim by SKOT and my town read on him just completely reversed. No town would question the validity of a daykill then claim. More non-townieness from SKOT.
- Oh look more fake hysterics from Adrien.

Page 15

-No comments, just theory talk.

Page 16

-If AdrienC is town, I am probably never going to be able to read him ever. This guy is so scummy/fake.
-SKOT, if you are town, repeat after me..."what I did was dumb, I should not have claimed, I made a bad move." And holy shit I need to meta Aegor to see if he always policy lynches instead of scum hunting!

Page 17

-Oh wow, SKOT actually showed some remorse. I wasn't expecting that. Now I don't know how to feel.

Page 18

Scarab vs BP feels like town on town.

I'm done for now, daughters class is almost over and my eyes are glazing over. I might do a few more pages before bed but no guarantees.

First my catch up post (some of it may or may not make sense anymore but I am not editing it)

(some URLs fixed by Toomai)

The AdrienC post 498 is dumb. Nobody is going to claim scum tracker so what's the fucking point?

Alina post 501 - Why does it matter that Damon has posted? What about his post made you think he was so town?

Damon_Gant, post 502 - second post of the game where he says he has a lot of town reads but doesn't elaborate. Two posts that are full of nothing. Anybody can say "I have a bunch of town reads. Thanks y'all, see ya later"

Burning_Town, post 507: How is making light of rule breaking and being a douche a scum tell? Why is reinfoe not a scumspect since he was "placing bets"?

Around 516 - All the suspicion of Boonskies seem opportunistic. It's clear to me the guy is just cutting up and people are latching on to that as a scum tell. He may be scum but not for anything he has done so far.

Salamence20, post 518 is super town. I don't agree with him/her 100% on SKOT but the arguments are sound (except the random vote one) and I 100% agree with his/her read on Boonskies.


Aeronaut post 523 --- learn sarcasm. You too clusk.

Not_Mafia is town

AdrienC - information gathering is not necessarily a town tell. I also hate when people do VCA with no analysis. Information is good, information without analysis is useless.

Hunterseeker post 536 is odd.


Hmmm, not liking this flashwagon on Hunterseeker. Not that I don't like the wagon, but I don't like the reasons. I am reading Hunterseeker as a troll at this point. So null. I like this post by BP for acknowledging this. And another opportunistic vote by Aeronaut.

Really dislike post 589 by Damon_Gant. He just grabbed a spattering of players and posted not-very-deep commentary on him. Geez, he even looked at my slot who I think had 3 posts? And then he jumps on the flashwagon. He is now in my scum column.

AdrienC - LOLOLOLOLOL


I'm starting to have a problem with the way Wake's posts are coming off. It might be a style thing but I feel like his posts are too forced. I don't know if I can explain it properly but the linked is an example. I'm probably still a little gun-shy to call him scum for it but it's just something I have been noticing. Another example in 601. The puffed-chest comment. And 604 with the snapping at Not_Mafia. Both feel over the top.

AdrienC - What?. My vote will reside on this guy until he ceases to exist. I pray a vig has already killed him in the night.

shaddowez 611: Hmmm, this is interesting that he chose to vote Clusk instead of HS when he suspects HS and HS is the leading wagon. If we find out that HS is scum or shaddowez is scum, this is a potential buddy-association to remember.

More policy-lynch hunting by Aegor instead of scum-hunting.

shaddowez post 621 - why the big case on Boonskies and instead keeping vote on Clusk where the case is much weaker?

I like farside's 626. Particularly the Aegor part. But knowing Clusk's flip I doubt scum-farside would be so "sure" in a read she knew was town, although if it's multiball that goes out the window. Another good post by farside. I didn't notice this.

AdrienC translation: I will go whereever the wind of suspicion is blowing

OK, I am getting really annoyed at reading the style of Wake's posts, so I am pretty much putting him on ignore and letting the rest of you figure him out. All his posts seem forced in their delivery but I am not necessarily getting a scum-read from the content of them so I just can't read him. Contrast that with AdrienC who I find everything he says to be scummy and fake/forced.


This is a town post by BP.

LOL, fake.. And fuck yeah to BP. Note to self: play more games with BP, I like this kid.

Oh look it's me. Hi me!

What the hell, Aegor? This whole post is great except for the vote. Why vote HS while you are making your case on AdrienC?

Also, I am just coming off a game where scum claimed town-commuter so I REALLY am disliking AdrienC's claim.

Note to self, if Alina ever suspects me, claim anything and her suspicion goes Poof!

@farside: Um, I don't think salamance provoked Adrien to claim at all. Adrien did that for no apparent reason.

AdrienC - what kinda of sense does this make?

Fantastic analysis by this player. Let's see who actually read it.

I wouldn't know but a question for

SKOT

, do you find this post to be buddying or not? You seem to have some experience with this player.

Who the hell is this guy? How am I on page 30 and seeing this name for the first time? This slot is either scum or seriously needs to replace out because this is unacceptable as town.

Adrien and Alina sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G...ugh, you guys need to get a room. {this was petty, but seriously...after the game, you guys should chat...maybe meet up...you are obviously smitten. There's no shame in it, I met my husband online...we have been married 11 years}....I am loopy right now....too much reading.

@Aeronaut why did you provide reads on this set of people in particular?

Even though it turned out to be wrong, I can see this as a good argument from Not_Mafia

@farside. Look up in this wall a bit, I noted one BP post in particular I felt was town but I have in general liked their posting. I could probably dig up more specific things if the ones I mention here doesn't strike you as town but I don't know that it is necessary at this point. For the most part, its been them saying/posting things I thought to myself as I was reading through.

Also, @farside: Why did it take you so long to come to this conclusion about Damon?

Good job SKOT, maybe we will get along after all.

Aeronaut's over-defense of a non-case is noted.

reinoe, spoiler that shit.

And BP/Scarabare back at it...

@Alina: I hope you mean you ISO'd HS instead of Clusk, otherwise this post makes zero sense. Ah, yeah, you did.Good.

This is an interesting question to ask. Probably not scum.


General note: I feel like TheAdrienC's V/LA was meant to look as if he was "gone" in the night but in reality he has posted a lot during the night on-site and last visited today (Saturday).

VOTE: AdrienC

Also, it looks like its multi-ball.

There you go. Here are my four sentences:

Read.
My.
Fucking.
Posts.

This was a rehash of your old posts so I didn't bold the repeats.

The reason people are voting you is because you are being obtuse. Yeah, I am lazy. I am too lazy to do something I have already did. You ask me to explain my suspicions in 4 sentences, I did. I can't show you every instance in which I saw him as fake in 4 sentences. That is why you need to look at each individual one (in my ISO) where I explain why that particular post is fake or wrong.

P-edit: BP is one of my town reads. The vote is likely annoyance based. I get it. They will likely change their vote I would expect. But what you are doing is just fishing for non alignment based reactions. If I were scum, I would be just as annoyed at you. So basically what you are being is a distraction.

BP's either Scum or a bad player who gets in the way of Scumhunting. Just an impediment with a bad attitude, it seems.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

If you want me to respect your words and wisdom then don't be an ass hole in the way you address people. You can find scum without being so in people's face. Hint: most of us aren't scum so stop talking to us like we are all caught-scum.

HS is scum for saying the scum/town ratio ( so we will be put off by it when he gets lynched), for saying he 'would bus Adrian' if he were scum buddies with Adrian, while a voting for Adrian, and for saying he and I couldn't be scum buddies together which is setting up for you to lynch me when he flips scum.

Adrian is scum because he is fake as fuck. I will not repost every instance of it that I noted because you can hit that little 'ISO' by name to see them. And he constantly shifts with where the wind of suspicion is floating.

P-edit: read my catchup post. I have recently finished a game where scum claimed commuter so it is highly suspect to me on top of all the other reasons I am scum reading him.

Why are you unaccepting of the bolded?

You are flat out misrepresenting me. I answered your question in 3 sentences. One or which is directing you to all the examples in my ISO. How exactly would you answer the question more succinctly? You are calling me lazy for doing what you asked.



P-edit: holy fuck you are dense. You are unaccepting of it because you have spent the past two fucking pages saying I didn't do it. So therefore I made the logical leap that you have not accepted what I said.

No, I will not do it. I have done all I am going to do for you. Go gladiator on me, I don't care. I will ignore you as will the rest of town because you are being absolutely ridiculous. It is not my problem that you can't see that.

Sorry town for the last two pages. From this point forward I will be completely ignoring wake. If anyone else feels that he has said anything that truly needs my attention then ask me and I will do my best to answer.

Right.

Why did SKOT claim?

cause I was pissed at Aegoer and is bullshit

Um...it was Salamance that pulled out your claim wasn't it? With a fake day vig.

interesting point and sheds light on the passive aggressive, wifom comments.
The whole bit with juls then really gets odd.

Vote HS.

To who/what is this directed. What point?

It wasn't a slip, it was deliberate.

Ok guys unfortunately it has come to this. I hereby hardclaim blue/nilla town and am expecting to be uncced so votes off meh~



I think Juls was onto something with his analysis in post eh 964. It was very good. It had me convinced really. I mean if I WERE MAFIA (im not, i just hard claimed blue), but IF I WERE MAFIA, I would bus adrien instantly. YES.

If HS ends up being town I will report him to the mafia gods for playing against his win condition.

1. I did not suicide
2. I did not selfvote/hammer with the intention to lose the game for town
3. I did not draw votes onto myself with the intention of getting lynched

More importantly Stop the OGI threats and ATEing which IMO is more harmful for the game

Note to self: actually Juls's interaction with me had been great had we been a maf team, Juls seems genuinely upset and I shud get towncred for fishing reactions. I mean no one would believe we are teamed even if one of us flip maf. /end note to self

@Alina -town does not say things like this. Not even troll-town.

Adrien

, where've you been? What's your take on the day's drama?

The reason I was on V/LA was a lot of work hours crammed into just a few days (it was more of a LA than the V because I wasn't on vacation, I just didn't have the necessary time to be online to be considered a regular active participant). I just got back from a 10 hour shift after a closing shift last night so I've been there all day. I'm still catching up, noticing that I still am being accused of fake (if I hear one more complaint that I'm fake, my head will 'splode). I also see we have a wagon on HS because he mentioned there being five scum (information we the town should not be privy to, so it could be a legitimate slip). I was on the wagon for HS when Clusk was lynched so I'm all for lynching HS, but Alina is right, we shouldn't rush the lynch without getting a bit more information (the only reason I'm not gonna vote yet). If HS is scum/town/SK/third party/our long lost brother, we could learn more from his flip if we don't rush it. I'm still catching up a little bit so I hope to give more thoughts soon (if not tonight, then sometime tomorrow).

Your V/LA was manufactured

to make it look like you were away in the night. You have been posting on-site.

Instead of just saying "someone else calling me fake", go read all the reasons I said you were fake in my posts and respond ok? It will even help wake cause he is too lazy to go find them.

Would you like to see my work schedule?

I have a full time job and am the mother of two (one being an infant) so that's two full time jobs. I'm not V/LA, especially not corresponding to the length of night.

This wasn't calling me fake but you sure were trying to one up me.

I noted it before you ever got here. Everything is relevant if it is on this site and your vla was.

Take your time, I am in no hurry. It will give Adrien more time to flail.

I noted it before you ever got here. Everything is relevant if it is on this site and your vla was.

Personal attacks are against MafiaScum's rules and frankly uncalled for. And before my post on here saying I was back, I hadn't posted in three days (which includes another game
I'm in). Those posts three days ago were several within a few hour window (look at my ISO if you don't believe me) when I got home from a late night at work and tried to keep up with everything. My V/LA was because of real life issues including work and attempting to find out where I'm going to live next month. So I'm going to ask one more time, please keep my personal life out of this.

I have noT attacked your personal life at all. I disbelieve that you were really vla but that is completely within the context of the game. You also logged in yesterday as I noted because your "last visited" when I was doing my catch up was yesterday (Saturday).

No, I am questioning the honesty of your vla. Big difference. Especially since you logged on yesterday while trying to say you last visited 3 days ago.

I didn't dodge anything. I answered his question, he didn't accept my answer. I wasn't going tO feed into his distracting behavior anymore. Nice non vote though on a "scum claim"

I have noT attacked your personal life at all. I disbelieve that you were really vla but that is completely within the context of the game. You also logged in yesterday as I noted because your "last visited" when I was doing my catch up was yesterday (Saturday).

DROP IT. Logging in does not mean one has the time to post, and questioning others' V/LAs is completely inappropriate, as abusing the V/LA system for factional benefit is against the rules. If you think Adrien is cheating in this manner, bring it up with the mod. But it has

no place

whatsoever in this thread.

Where is it against the rules? I have never seen that rule and personally don't think it should be against the rules. But, show me where and I will be glad to drop it. I have seen people scum hunt all the time by seeing who is online or in scum chat or last visited so I don't see how this is any different.

I didn't dodge anything. I answered his question, he didn't accept my answer. I wasn't going tO feed into his distracting behavior anymore. Nice non vote though on a "scum claim"

He asked you about an

update

. You dodged.

~tn5421

An update? I literally posted my last catchup post at the start of this day! Nothing changed.

@Adrien : Ok...so get on those responses to my walls that are about 50% about you. We got all the time in the world so take your time if you need to.

@burning - you clearly skimmed because I did answer his question. He didn't like my answer, I asked what else he wanted, he kept saying 4 sentences, I asked why my particular 3-sentence answer wasn't acceptable, he asked me why I thought he felt it was unacceptable. /facepalm. At that point I threw in the towel because he was simply being obtuse.

Where is it against the rules? I have never seen that rule and personally don't think it should be against the rules. But, show me where and I will be glad to drop it. I have seen people scum hunt all the time by seeing who is online or in scum chat or last visited so I don't see how this is any different.

Read the activity rules for this game. Attempting to circumvent them via illegitimate V/LA is a clear violation. Furthermore, Site Rules prohibit bringing outside influences, of which this is most

definitely

one, into the game. You are more than welcome to poll mods on this issue if you do not believe me.

Meh, I won't push it but I don't see anything in site wide rules or mod rules that what I am accusing Adrien of is a violation nor do I see anything that says my questioning of it is a violation. Regardless, I'm dropping it and will dig inTo this deeper behind the scenes.

@Alina - lots of people are still scum hunting.

Also everyone else can give their opinions too, not really sure why I just asked only Wake.

Damon_Gant, post 502 - second post of the game where he says he has a lot of town reads but doesn't elaborate. Two posts that are full of nothing. Anybody can say "I have a bunch of town reads. Thanks y'all, see ya later"
...
Really dislike post 589 by Damon_Gant. He just grabbed a spattering of players and posted not-very-deep commentary on him. Geez, he even looked at my slot who I think had 3 posts? And then he jumps on the flashwagon. He is now in my scum column.

No. This is typical mafia behavior on epicmafia. Spread wifom when your lynch is inevitable. Now I can't figure out why he did it before he was being voted. Perhaps he thought since he was the counter wagon yesterday that he would be pushed today.

Oh god, you guys suck for posting so much while I slept.

@Adri

E

n -no, I am not satisfied. I made more comments about you on my pages 1-18 posts. Respond to those as well. I'm headed to work now so I will be able to post but not big. I will try to retort more verbosely when I get home.

If hunter isn't happening then I am voting Adri

E

n but I'm not ready to give up on hunter yet. Being a troll does not get you a pass. Especially when he's from epic mafia. That wifom is not town. The wagon grew quickly because he is legitimately scummy. How long of a pass do we give him? What if we mislynch a town anyway? Then we still have to deal with him later. I don't think it's a mislynch but if it is it would be better to do it now before we are really in the weeds.

P-edit: yes. That is what I was trying to explain. His trolling is not town no matter which way it is sliced (I.e, town wouldn't submit that wifom)

@Those suspecting BroodKing. Does this question look like it is coming from scum? This is pretty much the reason I am town reading Brood right now.

@Broodking - why does that make boon scum but not wake? (Sorry if you already answered, this game is becoming a bit hard to catch everything)

Hey Adri

E

n, I will respond to you in detail tonight when I am on my PC but in the meantime, answer the two true/false questions below:

True or false...
1) Scum must fake interactions with townies to sound like town
2) Having fake-sounding posts is a scum tell

Reporting for what? Go ahead. I don't give a fuck. If I get mod killed or even warned for that I will replace out because that is so fucking stupid.

And I have addressed

your fakeness a lot

. Gave examples and everything. So don't be disingenuous in saying that nobody told you why you sound fake!

Addressed? Yes. Examples? A few. Explanations? Not really.

If you are getting offended by me making a point to spell your name correctly then you're way too thin skinned to play this game and this is coming from someone with pretty thin skin. Also, I did explain in some instances. I actually made a point to sense I already saw all the places with you going "duh, how am I fake?". Also, not_mafia told you that "fake" is difficult to quantify and you passed it off as if it isn't easily quantified then it can't be a tell. Like I said, I will respond in detail to all your

trash

responses when I get home. In the meantime, here's another tell for you: Appeal to Emotion. What I am doing with you is far from fucking bullying and

you are acting

FAKE

in trying to present it as such

. I have a scum read on you for lots of reasons and I am pursuing those reasons. If capitalizing and bolding your fucking E is bullying then everybody on this site is a bully. Why were people calling SKOT by SNOT not bullying? Oh...cause it wasn't you huh? I found that way more offensive than bolding a fucking E. Get over your self!

I might have miscounted but you called me fake 13 times. Gave one really bad explanation as to why. Also how can I be fake and committing AtE at the same time?

You need to admit that you hold a vendetta against me and getting a personal vendetta like this IS NOT TOWN. You are attacking me and not trying to find ACTUAL scum. Target fixation.

[Boonskiies]

Broodking:

Has been a little lurkey but has posted a lot recently. I don't know why, but your posts just seem very... off to me. They seem a bit forced, but that could be only me. You also seem so sure of yourself that Boon is scummy and Damon is townie. And we're supposed to just take your word for it from "another game"? Link. The. Game. Null, leaning scum.

Like I have said before, I've only completed two games here, and one of them, the one I'm sure he's referring to, as it was the only scum game i've completed, I replaced into a slot as the 4th person in that slot, and was pretty much confirmed scum. There is no meta he is sure of me on. He's making a false claim, and he's using it on me because I believe he thinks I'm an easy wagon. He is scum!!!!!! Please, lynch him.

___

FoS: Aegor, Alina, Hunter

[BP]

*Starts turning dial on

Annihilator Beam

*

You're just a self righteous bully that pretends to actively scum hunt by exhibiting a self centered stance based on disregarding every one. You sir are a liability and a much better lynch than dumb Damon.

VOTE: Wake

[reinoe]

Someone please explain to me why Damon_Gant is a superior choice to HS.

HunterSeeker is a newb who has shown the potential to be better than what he is right now. This is his second game on the site and he comes from epicmafia and therefore may be overwhelmed by the game currently since this is a LARGE NORMAL.

Damon Gant has extensive experience on this site. He is used to this site's metagame and previously played in Large normals. Furthermore he promised content and in the timeframe in which he was available failed to provide any.


VOTE: DamonGrant

[TheAdrienC]

I'm torn between boonskiies who we have a strong reason to believe lied about his claim and HS who may have slipped that he knew how many mafias we have and I was pushing the lynch for last night phase. Aegor, you're pushing hard for the HS lynch: what is your read on boonskiies?

Also, reinoe, can you give me a link to a Damon Grant game so I can see his play style a bit since you seem familiar by him? I do want to be informed on why a lot of you are voting his way.

[Boonskiies]

Eh, I'm just a selfish player. ^ Why do you have any reason to believe I lied about my claim?

[TheAdrienC]

These posts. Teasing that you

might

have been lying kinda eliminates anyone's ability to trust anything you say.

@Burning - I'm actually starting to become more convinced that we are dealing with a third party, whether it be a werewolf gang or a SK. Which would make sense on her playstyle of being her indecisive scummy, and at the same time co-existing with town. I want to say more SK than werewolf though.

How is it more awful? Let's face it, I am not going to get NK'd because I am an easy bandwagon for scum. Simple as that. As a power role, hell yeah would to try and protect myself from a NK. I want to win. My vanilla claim is null, as it really proves nothing, and scum won't necessarily take it seriously.

PEdit: Eh, I could care much less, because I do care a little. But let's face it. I believe it should be obvious I am not scum. But she already knows I'm not scum.

@Boon Okay. But why would you claim that you're not a power role? Do you not understand how that hurts town(assuming you're town...which I'm not.)? And it's couldn't care less. Couldn't. Not could. Thanks in advance.

It doesn't hurt town. I'd much rather have someone else die in the night than myself. Dying in the night gives me no chance to give my input on scum. And I could care less...much much less.

PEditt: i totally understand that. But you have no way of proving I was lying, nor do I have indefinite proof of me telling the truth. I don't necessarily need other town on my side right now; they'll come to eventually.

And if I had lied about being vanilla, I'm not going to claim unless it will ultimately benefit the town. And with that, scum is out of the question on knowing what I am. Thanks.

Unless I lied.

See? It really doesn't affect anything. You have no way of being certain. And that's why it makes you mad, isn't it? Not sure if you should waste a NK on me now.

[Boonskiies]

Again, I'm a selfish player. Why would I want to get NK'd? I'm not incompetent despite how sometimes I may post. I am fully aware of the decision I made being seen as untrustworthy, and I regret nothing.

[TheAdrienC]

You're aware people tend the lynch the people they can't trust, right?

[Boonskiies]

Completely aware. Exactly why scum would be dumb to NK me. I can handle a wagon on me, and can probably figure out the scum team by it. My play usually doesn't get me into trouble until around day 3, so we'll see tomorrow. I'm not getting lynched toDay. I seem scummy, but that's just my style. I go all in. Just look at any of my games.

[shaddowez]

Thoughts on Aegor incoming - in the meantime, please explain this:

Completely aware. Exactly why scum would be dumb to NK me. I can handle a wagon on me, and can probably figure out the scum team by it. My play usually doesn't get me into trouble until around day 3, so we'll see tomorrow. I'm not getting lynched toDay. I seem scummy, but that's just my style.

I go all in. Just look at any of my games.

Like I have said before, I've only completed two games here, and one of them, the one I'm sure he's referring to, as it was the only scum game i've completed, I replaced into a slot as the 4th person in that slot, and was pretty much confirmed scum. There is no meta he is sure of me on. He's making a false claim, and he's using it on me because I believe he thinks I'm an easy wagon. He is scum!!!!!! Please, lynch him.

You've admittely had two finished games, only one of which is town. Since any other game you may be in is ongoing, a) we don't know if you're town or scum, and b) we can't discuss it here anyway. How are we supposed to look at "any of your games" to see you only

appearing

scummy?

[Boonskiies]

Thoughts on Aegor incoming - in the meantime, please explain this:

Completely aware. Exactly why scum would be dumb to NK me. I can handle a wagon on me, and can probably figure out the scum team by it. My play usually doesn't get me into trouble until around day 3, so we'll see tomorrow. I'm not getting lynched toDay. I seem scummy, but that's just my style.

I go all in. Just look at any of my games.

Like I have said before, I've only completed two games here, and one of them, the one I'm sure he's referring to, as it was the only scum game i've completed, I replaced into a slot as the 4th person in that slot, and was pretty much confirmed scum. There is no meta he is sure of me on. He's making a false claim, and he's using it on me because I believe he thinks I'm an easy wagon. He is scum!!!!!! Please, lynch him.

You've admittely had two finished games, only one of which is town. Since any other game you may be in is ongoing, a) we don't know if you're town or scum, and b) we can't discuss it here anyway. How are we supposed to look at "any of your games" to see you only

appearing

scummy?

THANK YOU!!! I was hoping someone would say that. BROODKING!!! LOOK AT HIS POST!!!! LOOK AT IT! YOUR META REASONING IS CRAP!

[shaddowez]

I wasn't fond of

Aegor's

initial votes on Wake, mainly because of his lack of detail with his reasons (Posts #83 and #100 to be precise)

His next three dozen posts or so are primarily focused on the shitstorm that was the Aegor v. SKOT debacle, and as such I paid little to no attention to these.

After that, there seems to be a lot of.....nothing. He's very defensive, seems to offer very little content unless he's echoing someone else's ideas, asks vague questions of people, offers little to no reasonings on his scumreads. In Post #857, he gives Aero a hard time about not joining the Clusk wagon, then responds to Aero regarding Clusk with

It does not look that much scummier than HS to me, no.

The rest of his posts look like a lot more fluff to me. His lynchpool at one point was:

• Wake - I don't think he's scum, but I can see him turning people off based on what I think is his play style
  
• Clusk - A null read for Aegor as Clusk seemed scummy enough to warrant a lynch, but still ended up flipping town and can add evidence
  
• Hunter - An easy target - could be very similar to the Clusk wagon
  
• SKOT - Similar to Wake, plus I think he outright said this was more a Policy Lynch than anything else at one point
  
• BroodKing - Someone who is scummy IMO, but never got mentioned again.

I'm surprised I didn't read him as scummier earlier, but I think a lot of it is based on the fact I was skimming his stuff due to the SKOT fiasco.

Aegor

, could you please provide an updated list of your reads (at least scum), and some solid evidence as to why you think they're scum?

[shaddowez]

Boon

- You haven't addressed any of my questions or comments from Post #621, Post #1231, or Post #1412. You've quoted them and directed things at other people, but haven't actually answered them. Please do so now.

[Juls]

Spoiler: RE: AdrienC 498

The AdrienC post 498 is dumb. Nobody is going to claim scum tracker so what's the fucking point?

I was merely pointing out that there can be a scum tracker. He didn't add that he was town in his claim. He just said he was a tracker.

Merely pointing it out for what reason? It is implied when someone claims tracker that they are a town tracker because no one in their right mind would claim mafia tracker. This was not a slip even if they WERE a mafia tracker. This is just you trying to appear to be scum-hunting. Merely pointing out stuff that does not matter in a way that makes it looks like you are scum hunting makes you appear fake. This is me, explaining why your posts are fake so don't say I am not explaining "why you are fake"

Spoiler: RE: AdrienC's 534

AdrienC - information gathering is not necessarily a town tell. I also hate when people do VCA with no analysis. Information is good, information without analysis is useless.

My intention with that post was for us to see where the consensus was leaning to help us figure out who we were leaning for a lynch. I figured it would help the town narrow down our candidates and make a decision between them. If you don't agree with that, whatever. I was doing what I thought was benefiting us.

Yet again you are presenting something as if you are scum hunting but it boils down to nothing. Scum will often do VCA's in order to appear townie. When you do the VCA but you leave off the A (Analysis) part of it then it is just information gathering. This looks like another attempt to appear to be scumhunting when all you are really doing is regurgitating things that have happened in the game.

Spoiler: RE: AdrienC's 594

AdrienC - LOLOLOLOLOL

For someone who complains a lot about questions not being answered, you don't think I have the right to be annoyed that NO ONE wants to answer this for me?

This was the first time you asked the question to my recollection. So your point in 1246 is mute. In my post (964) I am simply laughing at the fact that you are asking the question because it was very obvious to me why Salamance was calling you fake and it's like a man with a toupee saying "Why do you think my hair is fake?" Obviously, this particular comment was not one of the ones I needed a response from you on but thanks anyway.

Spoiler: RE: AdrienC's 600

AdrienC - What?. My vote will reside on this guy until he ceases to exist. I pray a vig has already killed him in the night.

The equivalent of me pondering out loud. Now that we know Sal's role wasn't scum, I know that thought that came to my head was incorrect.

The referenced post is what is called testing the water. It's a scum-tactic in which you put a little feeler out there to see if you get any nibbles and then if you see some interest you can go that way. This is part of the reason I say that you are willing to go which ever way the winds of suspicion are going.

Spoiler: RE: AdrienC's 631

AdrienC translation: I will go whereever the wind of suspicion is blowing

I asked another question and was once again annoyed by it not being answered. I was one of the first people to point at boon that day phase.

The point is that you were not talking about Boon at the time and when others started throwing suspicion toward him you were laying the ground work to hop back on. This particular thing isn't that bad as I look back on it since you had suspicions of him prior but you also need to understand I was reading a lot of pages and that is what it felt like as I read through. Especially since you had just done something similar with Salamance.

Spoiler: RE: AdrienC's 649

LOL, fake..

You sound a lot like Salamance about calling my posts that without explaining it. There comes a point where you guys are just trolling me. And how is me getting as about as emotional as one can get even be defined as fake? That is the textbook definition of real when I'm lashing out in frustration.

I'm sorry but this felt like manufactured rage. This is one of those posts that just can't be quantified or explained about why it is fake it just is what it is. Seriously, read it back to yourself. It does not feel natural at all. It feels like you are trying too hard to look frustrated. That's my opinion and I know I won't get you to agree with me so there is no point in discussing it further.

Spoiler: RE: AdrienC's claim

Also, I am just coming off a game where scum claimed town-commuter so I REALLY am disliking AdrienC's claim.

I can't help what role I was given.

I haven't played with many Commuter's but I recall someone mentioning that Commuters are typically a scum role. I could be wrong on that but that's just what someone said and I assumed they were telling the truth since no one balked at it. Therefore your claim makes me uneasy.

@farside: Um, I don't think salamance provoked Adrien to claim at all. Adrien did that for no apparent reason.

Post 666

So if someone tells you to claim you just do it? No, you politely tell them to fuck-off and you aren't claiming. You weren't close to being lynched, Salamance had already proved she wasn't a day vig (I think that is the correct order of events) and absolutely no one else was calling for your claim. So no, you shouldn't have claimed. I don't see this as a scum tell, just a fact.

Spoiler: RE: AdrienC's 716

AdrienC - what kinda of sense does this make?

I answered this in Post 721 when Cabd asked me about it in post 718, but I'll answer again. While their role PM remains the same, I want to give a replacement a chance to have their own actions to be reflected on because there is no way in hell Cabd would be able to answer what was going through Salamance's head when Salamance said a lot of what he said. No two minds think exactly alike. Besides, a lot of people were wanting to hear from Clusk's replacement before ending the last day, right? Same concept. It didn't mean I was going to automatically crown the replacement with a townread. I was just going to let the new person's actions be reflected in my read of them and not what the departed player did. If this is a bad thought process, I'll learn that the hard way.

Wanting to hear from the person replacing in and giving them a clean slate are two totally different things. It is a bad thought process and you will learn that the hard way. Again, not a scum tell, just something I noted as I was reading.

Spoiler: Juls 733

Fantastic analysis by this player. Let's see who actually read it.

You really think highly of yourself. Not saying you didn't have good points in your analysis but the horn-tooting was a bit unnecessary.

You need to dig that stick out of your ass because it was clearly a joke. Wow. You must be so much fun to hang out with. Between you and Wake I bet it's non-stop laughter.

Spoiler: RE: Juls 964

Also, it looks like its multi-ball.

In a game with confirmed vigs, you immediately went to multi-ball (and you didn't sound all that unsure about it), something that I am immediately concerned you brought up without having insider information. It could have been a Vig kill, SK, multi-ball (it technically can't be ruled out), or even a JOAT.

Considering the last thing that Cabd said was "lets see if my multiball spec is accurate" (or something to that affect), yes I felt like it was likely more than one scum faction or a scum and a SK. Cabd is an obvious anti-town delivered kill and I can see farside getting killed by an anti-town element as well because most people were town reading her and she tends to be an aggressive scum hunter.

Spoiler: RE: AdrienC's 1246

Also A-D-R-I-

E

-N. Six letters. If you can't be bothered to learn to spell it, call me Ade. Three letters.

Hmmm. And you wonder why I make a point of spelling your name correctly. You can be a smart ass but no one else can I guess.

Spoiler: RE: AdrienC's 1372

Your first post which had analysis on me on the first bits of the game that was pointed out by pretty much everyone else and I've ALREADY responded to.

No, you never responded to my first post for pages 1 through 10.

Page 12

-Aegor 279: is he seriously accusing boon of role fishing....for a scum role? bad vote.
-Adrien 287. This post is so fake. First the p-edit is not real. He is putting the p-edit at the top? Second, I hate how he finger wags at wake and says he is taking his vote off but he's watching him, etc. I also hate the "I'm not your friend" speech. This whole post feels like what Adrien "thinks" town should sound like but it just comes off completely manufactured. And then the vote on boon is just ridiculous. He says he wanted to keep his head low but why in the world would boon have posted "hmmm" if he was trying to lay low? That just brought attention to him. I disagree with Salamance that adrien is bussing wake. I think Adrien is scum and wake is probably bad-town like farside said.
-Town read on Alina is growing. If you are town, stop being so tentative. Trust your gut. If you are scum I will never believe the innocent routine again!

Is there something wrong with having a P-edit at the top? Why do you keep calling me a liar about things that are not relevant to my alignment? I was posting, kept refreshing the game in another window and noticed more posts. And as for the taking the vote off Wake but still saying I'm watching him, practically 20 instances of that has happened from almost everyone here. Why is it only scummy when I do it? And I just wanted to make sure that it was clear that I was not trying to manipulate Alina by what I was being accused of "buddying up" with her. You're the one who made the joke about us kissing in a tree.

I think I explained pretty clearly why this post appears fake. But you didn't even address the most important part which was your terrible reasoning for voting Boon which was that he was trying to keep his head low. Explain to me why someone would post "Hmmm" if they were trying to keep their head low?

Page 13

-Stupid self vote is stupid. Let's see who takes the bait. I predict the policy lynching king Aegor.

(Oh, I just remembered something I forgot to say on page 12. That big post from Adrien, he also copies farside with definition shit. This guy is seriously fake)

-Hmmm, day vig shenanigans. Since we are still d1, I assume this is fake.

How is using a tactic I've seen successfully done to get answers out of someone fake? No, you're not going to answer that because no one addresses anything I ask about how I'm fake...they just snicker and point like a bunch of middle school kids.

Because you were doing something that you thought appeared town to look like town. This isn't rocket science. Scum mimic the actions that look townie. And stop with the Appeal to Emotion by saying wah wah everybody is calling me names wah wah.

- Oh look more fake hysterics from Adrien.

This is the shit you want me to respond to instead of me trying to do any scumhunting since I got back?

-If AdrienC is town, I am probably never going to be able to read him ever. This guy is so scummy/fake.

And this.

Now, I have things that I want YOU to address.

1. Don't you think that you wanting me to go through your ISO and address every little mention of my name even though a huge chunk of it has no content whatsoever is distracting me of my purpose to find scum and lynch them? I wake up this morning wanting to do an ISO on Aegor per boonskiies's request and all I've done for the past hour is go through your ISO to find stuff like "Heh heh heh, Adrien is so fake...". Don't you think that's counter-productive for the town if I'm not participating in getting information and processing information and trying to get a lynch because we need every living town member (oh wait,

you

don't think I am town!!) to find the scum so we can lynch the scum after losing three townies so far?

These are more posts (examples) of you being fake. Why do you allow me to dictate what you do in the game? I told you to take your time so don't say that I am preventing you from scumhunting. This whole statement is ridiculous. I am scumhunting. I am explaining why you are scum. If you don't want me to push these arguments you must defend yourself. It is just as much a town-members responsibility to prove they are town as it is to find scum. If you say scummy things and do scummy things I will call you out on it. Full stop. Right this very second, other town members are analyzing words we say, so no, I don't think this is counter productive.

2. Do you think there is any validity in this quote from this Mastin article?

If you attempt to make a Post by Post Analysis (abbreviated PbPA, wherein you list each of a target player's posts and critique each one), you are very likely to find yourself stretching to justify a conclusion you already had in mind beforehand with posts that don't actually add anything. In fact, PbPAs are quite possibly the most pointless ways you can waste time in Mafia.

You felt I was scum from the first few pages you read. Other people who have been suspicious of me eventually went elsewhere after more posts came along. You started to get vaguer and vaguer about why you didn't like each post I made. Maybe you started looking into my posts with a bias that you thought I was scum and that made you find scummy things that weren't even there? You don't think that target fixation is something that can happen in mafia at all? Don't you think that target fixation is NOT a good thing?

That quote is perfectly fine. However, I did not do a PbPa, I did a catch up post from REPLACING INTO THE FUCKING GAME. Doing a PbPa is more something people do near end game to justify their read. LIKE THE ISO's THAT YOU HAVE BEEN DOING. So don't even try to act like a PbPa and a catch up post are the same thing. It is true that I scum read you within the first 10 pages but I don't think my arguments got vaguer and vaguer, they were all about the same amount of analysis. Yes, target fixation (tunneling) can happen and yes, most people, including me have done it. I am not saying I am right 100% of the time and I do try to be objective and change my mind as it warrants. However, I still haven't seen anything from you to make me change my mind.

3. Fake? If you don't explain this, I'm ignoring you for the rest of the game unless you post something extremely profound and important.

It doesn't matter what I say. You will simply say that "everyone is calling me fake but not saying why...wah wah wah...please feel sorry for me.

Spoiler: RE: TheAdrienC's 1402

This post is a massive waste of time, space, and life. Yet more information presenting with no analysis.

You need to admit that you hold a vendetta against me and getting a personal vendetta like this IS NOT TOWN. You are attacking me and not trying to find ACTUAL scum. Target fixation.

Why in the world would I have a vendetta against you? I don't even know you. I have never even seen your name prior to replacing into this game. A vendetta implies I am trying to get back at you for something. Yet again, more misrepresenting from you.

VOTE: Adri

E

n

[Scarab]

Oh. My God.

Vote: HunterSeeker

How do you go from

/confirm for 1st game outside newbie town. Is there a setup/role list and/or do we know the town/scum ratio?

to

VOTE: Hunterseeker

HELP! MAFIA is voting me

And this town is doomed. we are 14 blues against 5 mafs.

?

Answer: by forgetting you're not supposed to know how many scum there are


I read the rest of it (all

18 pages

of it) and choose to comment on nothing else that's happened.

[Wake1]

Shaddowez

———✹

What's your

current

read on BP?

———✹

Pick 3 members right now. Which one would you lynch today?

———✹

What do you think of one player ignoring another player the remainder of the game?

———✹

Have you played in past games here? If so, links, please.

———✹

Should HunterSeeker be today's lynch?

———✹

Based on the last three deaths, what are your current theories?

[Mirhawk]

Readup on Aero
He softdefends HS a few times, and also makes note of lynching him on a later day instead of today. If HS flipped scum I would probably look here first.
Established a position where he can jump onto any of the five wagons without too much trouble. Boon would be the hardest, but seeing as how he called him destructive in the same post that he cleared him I could see it.
Repeatedly advocates caution in not lyching a lurker too quickly (ie Hunterseeker), then jumps hard on DG for lurking.
Cabd was calling him scum before he died too I suppose, though this could be a coincidence.

Overall I don't get the impression that he's looking too hard for scum, more that he's commenting on other people's scumreads.
Mildly scummy, with the footnote that if either he or HS are scum, both probably are.

--

Looking into Farsides kill it becomes obvious that she was paying attention to everything everyone said and was asking a lot of questions. Not all that surprised by the kill now. An additional note that if this was a reads oriented kill, it would pretty much have to be about BP.

Upon reflection I think that as Cabd was pretty obviously town, and so was farside. I doubt that either was a Vig kill. HS or Damon would have been good Vig targets, but Cabd and Farside don't make any sense. That leaves either SK or multiball.

--

This is mostly notes on what players did in relation to HS and Clusks wagons after Cabd's call to arms in post 871.

Aero

-Made a vote in either in response to pressure or to follow Cabd's insistence on a quicklynch. Looks funny in relation to the rest of the post in which he expounds on not quicklynching.

Alina

-Switched of Clusk wagon to HS wagon. Seems pretty town, especially with the knowlage that Clusk was in fact town.

Wake

-Switches to HS from BP. Didn't really provide a reason, not much to tell without HS's alignment.

Scarab

-Switches from Me to Clusk. Reasons feel tacked on for the sake of having a reason. The same reasoning could just as easily have been applied to HS.

Boonskiies

- Switches from HS to Clusk. Not much to say as all he says about it is that he previously said he was willing to lynch Clusk.

SKOT

-Moves off scarab onto Clusk. His reason boils down to a townread on HS.

Aegor

-Moves from HS to Clusk. Gives no reason. I'm starting to think this is typical for Aegor, so it feels rather null to me.

NM

-Moves from HS to Clusk. Doesn't really give a reason. This doesn't bother me as I feel he's town anyways. Calls for a Vig hit on HS.

It occurs to me now that this is pretty useless. Without knowing HS's flip the only thing this tells me is that Alina's probably town and Aero's suspicious.

-------
Notes on the seventeen goddamn pages you guys have posted since last night.

-Aero continues to tacitly defend HS while saying he's a viable lynch.
-Boon continues to be abjectly useless. (later amends this to being moderately useless) (still later appears to actually start playing)
-Wakes reads list is horrifyingly bad, it lists everyone but himself as null or scum.
-This five mafia thing on hunter is ridiculous, your realize you're all wrong right?


First off Hunter asked about setup in his first post, to which Farside responded to with a likely 5 scum team, wakes setup speculation was also a response to this. It was after this point HS mentioned the 5 scum team. I'm pretty sure I don't have to spell out why claiming this is a scumslip is ridiculous.

I'm not going to lie, I'm interested in HS's flip for information on the day one voting, as well as confirmation on my Aero read. But claiming he's being scummy is rather meh.

Boonskiies may or may not be infuriating, but he doesn't strike me as scum.

Scarab's vote on HS shows a minimum of effort.

I'm not sure if this feels like Wake's town game to me. His attitude is way off.
@Reinoe - Is it just me or is this not like his attitude in mini 1579.

[Aegor]

HunterSeeker is a newb who has shown the potential to be better than what he is right now.

How would you know whether he has that potential, or that he would be willing to realize it?

This is his second game on the site and he comes from epicmafia and therefore may be overwhelmed by the game currently since this is a LARGE NORMAL.

Or he is scum actively lurking.

Damon Gant has extensive experience on this site. He is used to this site's metagame and previously played in Large normals. Furthermore he promised content and in the timeframe in which he was available failed to provide any.

I agree completely. But can we at least wait for DG to be prodded/replaced?

I'm torn between boonskiies who we have a strong reason to believe lied about his claim and HS who may have slipped that he knew how many mafias we have and I was pushing the lynch for last night phase. Aegor, you're pushing hard for the HS lynch: what is your read on boonskiies?

I was scumreading him Day 1 and now I am townreading him very strongly, despite his irritating and obnoxious posting. I would sheep me on this, at least for the moment.

After that, there seems to be a lot of.....nothing. He's very defensive, seems to offer very little content unless he's echoing someone else's ideas, asks vague questions of people, offers little to no reasonings on his scumreads.

Are you really asking for reasoning for my scumreads? It should be pretty clear why I am scumreading HS.

he gives Aero a hard time about not joining the Clusk wagon

I gave Aero a hard time about just fueling the fire from a distance. He was withholding his votes for no good reason. That is scummy, and exactly what scum often do: push for mislynches while staying at a distance from them.

Hunter - An easy target - could be very similar to the Clusk wagon

Just because a target is easy does not make it bad.

Aegor

, could you please provide an updated list of your reads (at least scum), and some solid evidence as to why you think they're scum?

None of the active posters are pinging my scumdar strongly other than Aero. I will review the Clusk wagon again; I generally get my info from there.

Current lynch pool:
HS
DG
Brood
Aero

Still need to sort Burning_town and BP.

[shaddowez]

Answers will be inline.

———✹

What's your

current

read on BP?

Starting with Post #1337, I actually think he started doing a decent job of responding to and questioning people. Personally I don't have you as a scum read currently, so I don't agree with him on that.

———✹

Pick 3 members right now. Which one would you lynch today?

My top three currently are Brood, Hunter, and Damon. Right now, I think my top lynch candidate is Damon.

———✹

What do you think of one player ignoring another player the remainder of the game?

If one player is willing to admit that there will be absolutely no useful content based on interactions with the other person, I don't see it being a problem. If all there is going to be is personal attacks that distract from the game, it's better off. On the other hand, if they're just doing it to act like a five year old, and won't own up to anything but keep blasting the other person while ignoring them, that doesn't help town either.

———✹

Have you played in past games here? If so, links, please.

I have completed one game, here. It's the game that Alina, Clusk, and I started in, and Boon replaced into.

———✹

Should HunterSeeker be today's lynch?

Redundant after your second question.

———✹

Based on the last three deaths, what are your current theories?

I'm not sure if there's two anti-town factions, but I'm almost positive there's an SK. Farside and Cabd both had Hunter read as scum, but I'm not sure whether he'd be dumb enough to kill them both then make a fool out of himself like he has been, or if he's doing it to make us think that.

[Alina]

@Aeronaut I see what you did there.

@Mirhawk I'll agree that I think if Hunter is scum(doubtfulll), Aero has a high chance to be scum with him.

Just checked Damon's last visit. He visited earlier today. He didn't post. :l

[Aeronaut]

Readup on Aero
He softdefends HS a few times, and also makes note of lynching him on a later day instead of today. If HS flipped scum I would probably look here first.
Established a position where he can jump onto any of the five wagons without too much trouble. Boon would be the hardest, but seeing as how he called him destructive in the same post that he cleared him I could see it.

Would you call boon

not

destructive? Just because he's being destructive doesn't mean he's necessarily scum.

Repeatedly advocates caution in not lyching a lurker too quickly (ie Hunterseeker), then jumps hard on DG for lurking.

Nope. Not what I said at all, actually, great reading. Yes, it's true that Hunter and DG are both lurking hardcore right now. However, I said that the reason my suspicions are on DB is because he was one of Farside's two reads, and that I really, really don't like the wording on his posts. They're shallow, non informative, and extremely manufactured. So yea, that looks a bit scummy to me.

Overall I don't get the impression that he's looking too hard for scum, more that he's commenting on other people's scumreads.

Pot. Kettle. Black. Until this post Mirhawk, I actually sort of forgot you were in the game. You should post more.

Aero

-Made a vote in either in response to pressure or to follow Cabd's insistence on a quicklynch. Looks funny in relation to the rest of the post in which he expounds on not quicklynching.

No, I withheld my vote for a pretty long time, actually. After Clusk switched out, he was looking pretty scummy, but at that point I still wasn't sure, which i shouldn't have been sure because obviously we were wrong. So no, I didn't just slap down Clusk's name right away like the rest of you people. I thought about it, and I ultimately decided he was the most scummy at the time.

-------

-Aero continues to tacitly defend HS while saying he's a viable lynch.

The point of Mafia is the lynch the person who is the

scummiest

. So yes, while I feel like HS may be scummy, there are people who are scummier, in my opinion.

Boonskiies may or may not be infuriating, but he doesn't strike me as scum.

Yea, but his most recent few posts kind of rub me the wrong way.

[Aeronaut]

he gives Aero a hard time about not joining the Clusk wagon

I gave Aero a hard time about just fueling the fire from a distance. He was withholding his votes for no good reason. That is scummy, and exactly what scum often do: push for mislynches while staying at a distance from them.

Hmm.... I don't know about that. After all, I may have been a part of that mislynch, but I wasn't the one who hammered Clusk without any explanation

(link fixed by Toomai)

So you're telling me that it's scummier for me to hold back my vote and gather reactions, than it is for people like you to jump on the wagon as quick as possible? Are we in backwards-world? Do you really think I would have taken so long to vote for Clusk if I wanted a quick lynch? Especially If I knew for a fact he was town already, I'd have to be an idiot to even plant the seeds of disillusion with the rest of these people.

So, Aegor, I have a question for you. Why were you so quick to lynch Clusk? Why did he seem scummy to you? Link me to an earlier post if you need to, but I'm curious what was so scummy about him. I know why I thought he was scum, but why did you, Aegor?