Mini 1591: PFs Flavorless Normal (Game Over)

[RedCoyote]

"Look, eh, I'll vote Drew, CD or IAI at this point." Two guys with wagons, and me with no votes. Interesting.

"and how little he's referenced IAI (I don't think he's addressed IAI once)" I assume this in reference to Cooldog? The guy you just voted. The guy I've voted most of D1. The guy I voted over Reinoe, who you are kissing up to at this point?

Those are my new top three scumreads, what of it?

Also I was referring to how little CD referenced you, IAI, not the other way around. I have no idea (without going back to check) how much you referenced CD, but I was aware you were voting him for a big portion of this day.

Do you think clarifying this helped the scum? Moreso than me making a random suggestion on who the doc may want to protect?

(answers are yes and yes btw)

No, I think it helps the town. It's implied that reinoe is the only one that would have the track anyway, right? By me bringing up whether it was shared or not the town isn't caught off guard tomorrow if it in fact was. Your doctor fishing was completely out of left field and did nothing to help the town at all.

Why would scum Dessew claim results anyway? lol

For town credit and/or fake results, obviously.

[Drew-Sta]

[Drew-Sta]

I started to make a case on Drew, but I got tangled up. Here are the bits of Goofy's 656 I find good, anyway:

I would quote #225 here but it has been requested that noone does that again. So I will simply state that ad hominen has no place in forum mafia. In live mafia where things can get heated some can be excusable, but in forum mafia it just means that you can't think of anything real to discredit arguments so you have to belittle people to get it done instead.

Spoiler: In post 325 we see Drew trying to convince people to stop using votes to pressure information out of people, very early in day 1, with noone above 4 votes. Basically no more active scum hunting with votes yo

Yes, yes I do.

I'm agreeing with the wagon on Konowa (which Reinoe is pushing), but suggesting my read on RC is stronger and I have more confidence in it. If we get close to end of day and Konowa wagon is still going, I'll happily change vote back and lynch him. However,

I think it is important for each player to stick to their strongest read until that point.

The problem is that just because you're on the wagon I agree with, doesn't mean your reasoning is

right

to be on that wagon. This is what Reinoe is suggesting - that you're either bussing or distancing (or both).

Skrew keeping off RC (or not following through with his thoughts on it) for what I consider insufficient reasons is, in my mind, not pro-town. If the guy is mafia, vote for him. If he isn't then don't.

Intent is the key, Cyberbob.

Why

are you on a wagon.

Spoiler: Here in post 329 We see Drew slip in a defense for Reinoe into a response to a post that did not pertain to Reinoe, seems he may be trying to be more discreet with his defense here

Your thoughts about Skrew's behaviour towards the RC wagon

might

have some potential but only if you're willing to follow through on them. If you're going to accuse someone of being scummy for acting in a way that is similar to how you are acting you can't just handwave the contradiction away with "well I'm obv town and my gut says he's scum", it doesn't work like that. Nobody is obvtown, especially not on D1, you can't sit back and expect people to take your word for it.

PS: Dessew's whole thing with trying to make a case for pops being town is remarkably stupid. Not only is it far too early in the game to be making those kinds of calls, you're also painting a target on that person's back for scum to nightkill.

Neg town isn't necessarily scummy. Neg town is, in my view, acting in a way that is not in towns best interests. Again, intent is important. You can be neg town but town (which is usually the player making a mistake), or you can be neg town and scum (which is scum making a play for a mislynch).

Reinoe is, IMHO, misguided. But he's not, in his argument, being neg town. He's raising valid points especially for Skrew that should be dealt with properly, not dismissed because of his personality.

Think about it.

As I was reading posts, I found this:

The only scenario where it would make sense that Drewscum would verbally cheer on SK's wagon while voting for you is if you are town and SK is his buddy.

Where did Drew 'verbally cheer on SK's wagon'?

I didn't cheer on SK wagon. Also, I ask that you to point out exactly what about the argument at me is compelling, and you've basically sheeped Goofy.

Also, those Goofy quotes are a complete misrep of me. And you know it.

[Drew-Sta]

Vote: Drew-sta

It's nearing deadline, so I need to vote for a viable lynch, and I have a pretty strong town feel on reinoe. So Drew is my favorite of the other leading wagons. The original case for him itself never clicked for me, but he seems to go about defending himself in a scummy way, occasionally with some condescension that could "yes but that's not why silly" scum defense.

I would vote cooldog if I had to, he's null for me. I would prefer the Drew lynch. The plus is that in one or two people's eyes a Drew scumflip would vindicate reinoe and get them onboard with my thinking on that.

Did anyone have any questions for me I missed? I'm ready to see something flip at this phase of the game, really.

So you don't like the case against me but you'll vote me because... you didn't like my defense?

Really?

[Drew-Sta]

Seriously, there's some very easily misled town in this game.

[Drew-Sta]

Dessew town I think
RC scum or dumb
Reinoe town
Goofy scum
IAI town
Farside town
Cooldog neg town / likely scum
Skrew town

[I Am Innocent]

Seriously, there's some very easily misled town in this game.

Who are you referring to? And how are you so sure they are misled town vs. scum???

[PokerFace]

Day 1 Vote Count:

CooLDoG (5) - I Am Innocent, reinoe, farside22, Beck, RedCoyote
reinoe (4) - SleepyKrew, CooLDoG, Cyberbob, Goofyd00d
Drew-Sta (2) - Dessew, popsofctown
RedCoyote (1) - Drew-Sta

Not voting (0) - No one

with 12 alive its 7 to lynch

SleepyKrew is v/la until 8/12/14

Deadline Countdown

(expired on 2014-08-07 20:00:00)

The Rules, Stolen from shaft.ed, TSQ, Mr. Stoofer, Flameaxe, Jdodge:

05. You can vote for no lynch to occur during the day. Simply post VOTE: No Lynch. Should this vote reach a majority, it will happen.

If no majority is reached during a day then there will be a no lynch when that day ends

[popsofctown]

Cooldog feels like a weak lynch. Beck would be a better lynch just standing on Konowa's post record alone. Would enough people go for that?

[farside22]

Cooldog feels like a weak lynch. Beck would be a better lynch just standing on Konowa's post record alone. Would enough people go for that?

Why does it seem weak? I mean you had him as null. I'm just waiting for a what do you see/think?
Also you have a town read on Renoie. Do you think scum was on that wagon?

[CooLDoG]

The whole "not paying attention" argument is dead on arrival and is the most hypocritical argument made this game to date.

I honestly don't think anyone has ever stipulated that not paying attention is = scummy. It just means that your opinion is invalid.

[quote="In
My thoughts on farside being considered for a doc claim help scum out none-what-so-ever.

What is this I don't understand. Someone help me.

One day not to long ago there was a crazy person that claimed scum from the start and was scum.
There was also a crazy person who claimed a cop role and there was a cop in that game. The person who faked claim was town.
So when I see crazy and stupid stuff it's null tiki I see what else the player does.

Yeah, this is a dumb argument. Just because stupid people do stupid things doesn't mean we should assume everyone is stupid. You fake claim as town you die. Period. There is no null or any shit like that. You die because that is scummy. PERIOD. Any counter example is irrelevant because

most of the time people aren't stupid fucks. I mean, mafia is predicated on the fact that there are rational actors.

If that isn't true then the game is random and we should lynch at random.

One day not to long ago there was a crazy person that claimed scum from the start and was scum.
There was also a crazy person who claimed a cop role and there was a cop in that game. The person who faked claim was town.
So when I see crazy and stupid stuff it's null tiki I see what else the player does.

lmao this town is going to lose and lose hard.

Yes, it is. Don't mean to be doom and gloom. But this game is not going well.

Wtf red. That hurt my thumb scrolling through that.

yeah, seemed solid though. Drew is completely wrong in what he says. And so is farside as of late.

If someone has a scumread they shouldn't have to sheep a

reason

for the scumread. They should have their own independent reason for scumreading someone.

WHY? If the reason is solid I'll sheep that shit all day long.

associative tells (which don't matter unless there are flips)

ding ding ding

no. they do. you are wrong. There is a scummy associations that work without a flip. Prime example: Buddying the fuck out of a town leader. Example: Defending someone irrationally. Example: Calling out town players with little reason.

I missed the great case cooldog presented. Did anyone else see it?
Just curious since he called my cases bad, what a good case supposedly looks like.

My brain has checked out. My son is watching the fairly odd parents live action movie.
Painful.

Your cases are shit and you know it. Let's nip the tu quoque bullshit in the bud, shall we.

In post 664, Beck wrote:
can you explain why your SK read did change? It is kind of suspect to be pushing someone and then do a 180 and vote with him and unless I missed it, I don't see what caused your read to change.

It changed when he actually started to scum hunt and stopped talking about rvs. When he started to generate content it changed

Can you point me to the posts that started changing your read on him? I want to see these posts you consider scumhunting please.

read the game. I'm not fishing through this garbage to give you a link. If you cared you would look it up.

yes. I feel the exact same way right now. I caught up and it was pointless.

Hey Dessew,

Spoiler:

I'm about to go to bed and I meant to actually do this earlier.

I'm a town neighbor with Dessew. Dessew please confirm.

Why is this in a spoiler? Why the hell would you claim this now? I don't understand anymore.

There was nothing to discuss. The good stuff is that I'm a 1-shot tracker. Both roles crumbed.

what the fuck?

@renio, Going on the drew wagon. For sure just blowing with the wind. Here, take more ammo for your case. I don't care anymore.

vote:drew

If he flips scum we lynch dessew. Drew/dessew scum team where drew decided to defend reinoe for town points. Seems legit.

I'm happy to lynch Drew, but if reinoe is strongly against it, I'll give him some leadership capital here

Why? What because he was wagoned? That isn't a valid reason.

Also, farside as a darkhorse scum person for asking a bunch of red-herring questions.

[Drew-Sta]

Also, Beck = scum too based on my read on Kon.

vote:drew
If he flips scum we lynch dessew. Drew/dessew scum team where drew decided to defend reinoe for town points. Seems legit.

You want to give some evidence for that? Like, anything?

Seriously, there's some very easily misled town in this game.

Who are you referring to? And how are you so sure they are misled town vs. scum???

Pops seems townish, but I could be mistaken. RC is, as I say, dumb or scum - one of the two. I'm banking on the latter, not the former. But if he's the former - there's no emoticon to express my frustration.

Dessew's vote on me is just a sheeping of Goofy. Given Goofy is not even voting me, it shows a lack of critical analysis to it all, and a lack of analysis on Goofy.

Cooldog feels like a weak lynch. Beck would be a better lynch just standing on Konowa's post record alone. Would enough people go for that?

Why is Cooldog a weak lynch? Especially in light of me?

[Drew-Sta]

Seriously, are people reading this?

vote:drew
If he flips scum we lynch dessew. Drew/dessew scum team where drew decided to defend reinoe for town points. Seems legit.

In post 816, RedCoyote wrote:
I'm happy to lynch Drew, but if reinoe is strongly against it, I'll give him some leadership capital here

Why? What because he was wagoned? That isn't a valid reason.

Also, farside as a darkhorse scum person for asking a bunch of red-herring questions.

Votes me, but claims the wagon on me is poor. WTF?

[farside22]

Cd: omgus is showing.
Nope case is good. You changed reads for lirtle reason and sat there.
Now your asking why Renoie claimed? Seriously why the fuck should he not claim?
Oh joy wifom time on why Drew is scum.
Case sucks ass cd.

[Drew-Sta]

I need to reevaluate CD. I'll have a crack and come back with something.

[farside22]

Seriously, are people reading this?

vote:drew
If he flips scum we lynch dessew. Drew/dessew scum team where drew decided to defend reinoe for town points. Seems legit.

In post 816, RedCoyote wrote:
I'm happy to lynch Drew, but if reinoe is strongly against it, I'll give him some leadership capital here

Why? What because he was wagoned? That isn't a valid reason.

Also, farside as a darkhorse scum person for asking a bunch of red-herring questions.

Votes me, but claims the wagon on me is poor. WTF?

Cd is talking about Renoie in this sentence.

[popsofctown]

Cooldog feels like a weak lynch. Beck would be a better lynch just standing on Konowa's post record alone. Would enough people go for that?

Why does it seem weak? I mean you had him as null. I'm just waiting for a what do you see/think?
Also you have a town read on Renoie. Do you think scum was on that wagon?

These are actually related. I don't assume scum is on any big town-targetted wagon by default, and in reinoe's case in particular I don't think it's damning to have attacked reinoe. Cooldog is among those posters whose line of thought seemed wrong, but internally consistent and understandable.
Multiple actors seemed to shift focus to/from Drew, so that seems like an informative lynch. Cooldog was never that popular and just kinda slowly bubbled to a consensus lynch, it doesn't seem that informative.

Konowa lynch would be very informative for similar reasons, and a good deal more likely to flip scum.

There's a frustratingly long list of lynches I'd prefer to cooldog: Skrew, RC, IAI, goofy. Drew actually has a poor standing on that list, and sorry @Drew that my vote is parked there, but you have a high viability. If we could pull together an improved flashwagon on one of these other guys that'd be kinda great, I'd love you long time. Maybe I deserve a little credit

worthy of sheepability

for being ahead of things on reinoe town, neh? (Is "neh" a word they use in Ender's Game? I think I remember it being a really cool Orson Scott Card word)

[Drew-Sta]

Seriously, are people reading this?

vote:drew
If he flips scum we lynch dessew. Drew/dessew scum team where drew decided to defend reinoe for town points. Seems legit.

In post 816, RedCoyote wrote:
I'm happy to lynch Drew, but if reinoe is strongly against it, I'll give him some leadership capital here

Why? What because he was wagoned? That isn't a valid reason.

Also, farside as a darkhorse scum person for asking a bunch of red-herring questions.

Votes me, but claims the wagon on me is poor. WTF?

Cd is talking about Renoie in this sentence.

Ok, I misunderstood.

Cooldog feels like a weak lynch. Beck would be a better lynch just standing on Konowa's post record alone. Would enough people go for that?

Why does it seem weak? I mean you had him as null. I'm just waiting for a what do you see/think?
Also you have a town read on Renoie. Do you think scum was on that wagon?

These are actually related. I don't assume scum is on any big town-targetted wagon by default, and in reinoe's case in particular I don't think it's damning to have attacked reinoe. Cooldog is among those posters whose line of thought seemed wrong, but internally consistent and understandable.
Multiple actors seemed to shift focus to/from Drew, so that seems like an informative lynch. Cooldog was never that popular and just kinda slowly bubbled to a consensus lynch, it doesn't seem that informative.

Konowa lynch would be very informative for similar reasons, and a good deal more likely to flip scum.

There's a frustratingly long list of lynches I'd prefer to cooldog: Skrew, RC, IAI, goofy.

Drew actually has a poor standing on that list, and sorry @Drew that my vote is parked there, but you have a high viability.

If we could pull together an improved flashwagon on one of these other guys that'd be kinda great, I'd love you long time. Maybe I deserve a little credit

worthy of sheepability

for being ahead of things on reinoe town, neh? (Is "neh" a word they use in Ender's Game? I think I remember it being a really cool Orson Scott Card word)

Again, as this is irritating me - WHY?

[Beck]

Can someone tell me what's in the black box? Also please don't use those out of respect for phone posters.

[Drew-Sta]

Can someone tell me what's in the black box? Also please don't use those out of respect for phone posters.

Maybe I deserve a little credit worthy of sheepability for being ahead of things on reinoe town, neh?

[Beck]

Thanks.

And lol no you don't deserve credit for that

[Drew-Sta]

Who, pops? No, I don't think so at all. If Reinoe gets lynched its all Skrewloose's effort IMHO.

[Beck]

yes I was referring to pops. His defense of reinoe doesn't earn him anything and tbh asking for credit is kinda scummy, especially when we don't even know if reinoe is town.

though i'd like to see more content from pops cause it's kinda bad that he has less posts than their are pages in the game and when he does post it doesn't make any sense. I don't understand how he can conclude drew is an informative lynch but a cooldog isnt, yet some of cd's posts literally make no sense.

pops thinks sk is scummy, cd thinks sk is scummy, cd does a 180 on sk for a reason that I still am not buying and pops doesn't bat an eye? he just moves on to drew as a compromise lynch? why is he compromising with 3 days left anyway? And why is he saying that drew is a viable lynch when drew only has 1 other vote on him?

CD lynch is good, we should just do that and call it a night

[Beck]

read the game. I'm not fishing through this garbage to give you a link. If you cared you would look it up.

I have and I don't see it which is why I am asking you to support your claim. The burden of proof falls on you.

[CooLDoG]

^then don't believe me. I don't care. My reasons are good enough for me.

Honestly guys, I would rather be lynched now so I don't have to witness the cluster fuck that this game will become. You guys should probably lynch nessu and drew tomorrow. You might also consider farside at some point... or at the very least don't believe anything that she says. Also keep an eye on RC... never had a good look at him because those wall posts are too much for me.

Also, I'ma going to claim VT now. So if ya'll like this wagon go for it. Also, pop's analysis of the way my wagon built up is true... scum are on it.