NY 177: Simple Complexity (GAME OVER: Scum Wins!)
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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In post 80, RoyalApe wrote:With absolutely nothing else to go on, seemed like as good of a reason as anybody else has used so far. VOTE: Elyse for tunneling onto a RVS vote.
Considering she only posted once asking about this (at the time, I realize there have been more since), why are you claiming she's tunneling?
NS- Have any scum reads yet, or just town?-
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In post 245, notscience wrote:In post 240, tn5421 wrote:Townreads are preferable to scumreads early on imo.
why are you answering his question towards me
Why aren't you answering my question towards you?
In post 249, tree wrote:But when you see an Innocent Child claim, maybe the first reaction if you're town is to vote them for the heck of it.
Why would town vote IC for the heck of it? That would literally be playing against wincon. Theonlything I could think of is if it's within hours of deadline with no solid lynch, where there's a chance you won't get a modconfirm. Otherwise, why not vote people you think are scum until you're confirmed or not?
I'm generally against policy lynches, and at this point can't say I feel any different.
In post 270, reinoe wrote:I've been doing more scumhunting than 75% of the players this game.
Could you point out where? I don't completely disagree with your scumreads right now, but it's still not obvious to me where you are scumhunting.
In post 297, T S O wrote:Hey, Alina, can you show me where reinoe's been scumhunting?
After you do that, I'll show you how to look out for leading questions.
Hey TSO, can you show me where TSO's been scumhunting? Thanks.
In post 363, T S O wrote:Attempting double day actions is foolhardy, but Town. #300 is also on the mark.
How is any sort of fakeclaim specifically town? Reaction tests are one thing, but just outright saying he's town for doing two fakeclaims in a day is just ridiculous.
Alina- You stopped asking questions, which for you is surprising. Have any current scumreads?-
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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Is this entire game just going to be pairs of people going at it?
I don't really have a read on Tree right now, but didn't like the double fakeclaim. However, I also don't think that should be theonlything people are focusing on to decide if he's scum or not. TSO seems to be making a straw man argument, which to me is making him look scummier.
notscience, why don't you answer my questions instead of sitting on the sidelines?-
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In post 127, texcat wrote:In post 50, gameplay506 wrote:Actually I am genius and I think I know the setup. Just wonderin whether to tell it or not.
Will knowing more about the setup help us find scum? I thought the object of this was to find (and kill) the scum.
I, too, agree with this, but wonder why you are so focused on RoyalApe. A lot of people made early, random votes. And yet you didn't find anything to question in their votes? You only found RoyalApe worthy of questioning?
I completely forgot this person was in the game.Texcat, have anything to add since this post?-
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In post 413, T S O wrote:In post 408, shaddowez wrote:TSO seems to be making a straw man argument, which to me is making him look scummier.
Go on.
Basically the post you just quoted from Majiffy. He wasn't using Tree's gambit as his basis for calling him scum, but that's all you kept attacking him for. There was more to it, but for anybody that doesn't feel like reading through the redundant back and forth of "He's town for it" "No, he's scum for it", you were trying to make a case for Majiffy to look bad for voting Tree based on just the one factor.-
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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Holy shitballs there's a lot of posting in this game - I thought the last large I was in was bad. 10 pages in a little over 24 hours is ridiculous!
Alina- My biggest scumreads right now (in no particular order) are TSO, RoyalApe, gameplay, and Aeronaut. I'd say that given the number of posts in the game, the three of them are providing the least amount of content in theirs, and don't seem to be doing anything to garner informatoin that could be helping town.
I'm having flashbacks to the Alinskies argument with a lot of the back-and-forths on here, thinking that most of them are town on town.
I didn't like tree's double fakeclaim, but didn't think that was specifically scummy. The fact that he could be using it as a godfather gambit makes me want to reread his ISO and look closer at thim though.
Farside- in 4 posts you went from asking why tree was scummy to suggesting a tree/texcat team. What made you think tree was scummy all of a sudden?-
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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In post 668, Alina wrote:@Shaddowez Why are you scumreading gameplay and TSO? I can see the other two, but I'm not getting any scumvibes from TSO/gameplay. What are your thoughts on OkaPoka? I'm trying to avoid tunneling again so if you think this is town VS town please help. ALSO ALINSKIIES <3 Didn't notice the farside catch actually, that's... interesting.
I'm really not liking gameplay, but I'm thinking more and more that it's newbtown than scum. It'd be a hell of a reach to be making a gambit out of the mountainous setup and multiball questions to Wake. It could be a play, but I'm not going to get into that WIFOM here.
TSO has done very little in the ways of scumhunting, and most of his posts are full of random crap, occasionally opposing what somebody else said, but not really backing up why he's arguing against it. In his argument with Majiffy about Tree, he completely disregarded the fact(until the very end) that Majiffy wasn't voting Tree purely on the double fakeclaim. Every argument for Tree being town was based solely on the two gambits. The first third of his posts are bashing/arguing for a Reinoe vote, and when I asked him to provide evidence of him scumhunting, he links me toonepost which is probably his strongest post (which is sad), and it's yet again him just saying Reinoe is scum.
Spoiler: TSO's Straw Man
I don't really have a read on Oka right now. Most of his content was against gameplay due to the stupid "bannable info" bullshit. It seems a bit like tunneling, but don't think I can really hold it against him. He did mention other people occasionally during that, so his switch to Tree wasn't out of the blue or I would have seen that as scummy.-
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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In post 672, farside22 wrote:Texcat mentions a lot about tree in the post I quoted but vote for aero for an unknown reason.
I typically see that from newbscum. Where you mention a player you don't like but vote the other and the person you have more issue with is your scum buddy.
That didn't happen in the four posts you made. You also didn't quote that in your vote for him, you quoted something completely different. Also:
In post 1124, farside22 wrote:In post 1123, texcat wrote:In post 1113, farside22 wrote:
Can you explain why you asked this:
In post 627, texcat wrote:
I get that Gameplay's theory on a mountainous game makes it look like he is vanilla town. And I've never played with him before, but isn't it worth considering that he's scum who made this whole thing up to look like vanilla town?
Did you have a scum read on gameplay I missed?
I certainly don't have a town read on Gameplay. And so I disagreed with NotScience's dismissal of him as town. Is this just another example of your hyperfocus on me?
I've talked about more then you, if you read the game at all.
How about your other scum reads, since all I saw was a follow elyse and not town read on gameplay.
Vote: tn
Hypocrisy much?-
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That was rough, but I think I'm caught up now. While I appreciate being defended based on the fact my vote was put on in RVS, I'm actually happy leaving my vote where it is right now. I don't like the softclaim, there was absolutely no need for it.
Voting someone you think is town is against wincon. I hate the fact that NS is doing it too, but at least he has a reason for doing it other than "He's being useless, screw it". That worked out well for town last game with HS and others. Oh wait, you were SK and didn't care who got lynched!
Also, if you're town you should never be willing to "accept your lynch". You should be fighting tooth and nail to figure out who scum is and actually get them lynched.-
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In post 1314, Titus wrote:Softclaims aren't made cuz there's a need. They are meant to be skipped over and revealed later as OMG that makes sense. A good portion of my arrogant gibberish catches the scum like that. Claim my role. Nuhhuh bitch. I softclaimed first.
Crumbs, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Softclaims come off more as "Don't lynch me, you'll regret it, but I'm not going to tell you whyyyyyyy", which could turn into absolutely nothing. What about this post comes off as "meant to be skipped over"?
In post 1196, Aeronaut wrote:Read. Between. The. Lines.
In post 1315, Titus wrote:I also thought ppl if town would fight tooth and nail but fighting tooth and nail is actually more likely to get people lynched. So I say bullshit here are your scums ty goodnight.
So are you saying town should never try to not get lynched? Also, I said fighting to figure out who is scum and get them lynched, not just fight against your own lynch. While similar, they are not the same.-
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In post 1343, Alina wrote:that moment where I of all people am the person it's been longest since they've posted
Catching up now blegh.
It's an alternate universe! Also, good luck.-
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Holy shit, this game is getting messier and messier.
UNVOTE:
I still don't like Aero just yet, but want to give some more time to look into things. Have to figure out if I believe the roleclaim, especially since it's still possible to be a scum role.
Titus- Are you saying you don't believe the claim because Aero said it's "sort of lame"? And what about that claim was enough for you to completely reverse your read on Aero, enough so that you didn't even care if you hammered?
Gameplay- What the fuck are you even doing this game? I've seen you throw out a couple of reads lists with little to no information; have a shitfest about "bannable" info which was a waste of bandwidth and every single player in this game's time; vote for 6 different people, most of whom you gave maybe 2 lines about why, and only one of which you weren't the only vote on; and you've defended Aero based on a claim in a neighborhood! Out of 123 posts, I think maybe 10 of them have content that's actually worth dealing with. There have been numerous times in mafia games where I haven't liked what's going on, but you're the first person to actually piss me off.-
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Definitely getting a different sense of playstyle from NY175, but he was a hyrda there so I'm not sure how comparable it is.
I have a mostly null/very slight scumread on him right now. Most of his posts contain a lot of words but very little content, and even more lack original thoughts. I really don't like the PL pushes, but that again doesn't read as alignment indicative to me, especially since there were multiple people pushing for the same thing. I agree with his read on NS, but can't say the same for most of his other reads.
tn- Considering how much you seem to not like Elyse, why is she below both Titus and ns on your priority list? Also....
In post 240, tn5421 wrote:Townreads are preferable to scumreads early on imo.
In post 1633, tn5421 wrote:
In post 1454, Majiffy wrote:Reinoe
alina
T S O
notscience
Shaddowez
Elyse
These people are basically conf town and if you don't like it you can just shut the fuck up because your opinion is invalid.
No, over half of this list is scummy, Alina is the only person I'd feel safe considering conftown.
In post 1687, tn5421 wrote:High Priority > Titus > NotScience > Elyse / Tree > Texcat > Low Priority
You've provided a concise list of your scumreads but not your townreads, even though you think townreads are preferable. Care to give thoughts on your townreads?-
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In post 1806, tree wrote:this whole discussion is just potentially hugely incorrect setup speculation that is not only distracting from scumhunting but can lead to a string of methodical mislynches that have little to do with actual scumreads.
I completely agree with this. It's the same way I felt about the bannable info bullshit that took up pages of posts for no reason.-
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I'll agree with that, but what's your read on him?
Gameplay- You never addressed this post by Psyche:
In post 1611, Psyche wrote:In post 1607, gameplay506 wrote:Ok I am going to have nightmares now.
Tree wtf just wtf.
Psyche pls commit suicide now.
Pls pls pls.
Leaving this before my eyes start bleeding and my brain melts.
why are you so confident in your aeroread-
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In post 2011, Aegor wrote:This game is moving so quickly and is so disorganized that I would probably be fine lynching most players.
But vote texcat.
You haven't given any reasons for voting texcat since Post #772. Most of your other posts regarding him are "Vote texcat", which is no better than most of Oka's posts of "Why isn't Tree dead yet?". You also said in that same post that Oka can die too, and yet you're trying to get people to vote texcat when there's already an Oka wagon rolling. Can you explain to me why?
In post 2008, Titus wrote:Bullshit. Either TSO or PV figured it out and told you.
Why do you think Pere is scum? I just ISO'd him and it doesn't look like he's doing too much, and hasn't posted anything since saying he needed to catch up, but nothing came out as exceptionally scummy to me.-
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In post 2029, Mirhawk wrote:In either case I do think Aero's scum, which is why I'm curious about this cop business. Especially seeing as how you're the one who suggested that a investigative role would be a counterclaim to Gunsmith.
I'm not going to step on your toes on whatever it is you're doing, but I want to know if there's actually a chance that whatever you're doing can start the fire under Aero back up?
I'm going to piggyback onto Mirhawk here. I'm notconvincedAero's scum, but I definitely don't believe his claim makes him conftown, and I'm not against his lynch if more can be done to prove it's a good idea D1.-
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Your initial question was if he was lying, which I answered. As for your new point, that depends on two factors, neither of which I'm really comfortable with.
1) What type of investigative role we have, and how badly he's lying. If he's a Godfather or an SK, a regular cop may not help. If he's fakeclaiming and have an actual town gunsmith, it won't help if he's a Mafia Doctor (or possibly an SK, not sure about that). If we have a role cop, still won't help to know if he's town or scum.
2) Whatever investigative role we do have will have to out themselves on D2 in order to clear one person. If we have a doctor we can try playing Follow the Cop, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if scum has a RB if we have an investigative roleanda doctor.-
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In post 2066, tn5421 wrote:In post 2048, Titus wrote:Can someone give me a reason why Aeronaut is not getting votes?
Because lynching an uncc-d investigative role day one is roughly as idiotic as my general play has been over the past 5-10 pages or so.
How would a cc necessarily help? Even if we have another gunsmith, Aero could be town in which case we're in the same position we are now. And if there's not another gunsmith, no other role can be considered a cc since there could be more than one investigative role.-
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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I actually rethought my theory about lynching Aero, and decided that we can lynch him D2 instead for better results, and don't need to wait for another lynch or mislynch to prove his claim.
If we lynch him today, we get absolutely zero information. If he's town it's a mislynch with no reads whatsoever, and probably the worst possible scenario. If he's scum and we mislynch a townie, we screwed up, but if he had never claimed there was a chance of that happening anyway. Since he hardclaimed and investigative PR, if he's town then scum will most likely kill him. If he is still alive on D2, he can tell us what he did N1 and what result he got. We then lynch him to see how he flips. If he told us he got no result and is town, he most likely got RBed/JKed. That gets us info that scum has an RB/JK, along with the fact that unless they have more than one, they wasted it on a GS instead of any other investigative role we may have, or a doctor, SK, or Vig if we have any. (I say wasted since a GS can hurt town by finding vigs and cops). If he gives us a result and flips town GS, that is someone to strongly consider, and should elicit a claim if need be. If he gives us a result and flips scum GS, we should seriously look into whoever he named. If he flips and isn't a GS, it was still just one day that we wasted.
This doesn't require any other PR outing themselves, and actually gives us the possibility of gaining us info without letting Aero just slide by for days on end. If we do have another investigative role and they decide to look into Aero and reveal on D2, that's on them but not necessary.
UNVOTE:-
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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Alright, since I'd rather see Aero lynched D2 than D1, I'm pretty sure I know where I want my vote to lie:
VOTE: notscience
He is posting alot(he has almost 250 posts), but is posting almost no content. That's just about 10 pages of worthless nonsense. A good portion of his posts are one liners, and a decent number of them are just emoticons (which he admits in Post #1591). He's trying to appear active in the game without doing much, and his votes have either been purely sheeping or on the Aero wagon. His sheep vote is even on someone he believes to be town just to get help lynching someone he believes to be scum on another day, which if he is town is against wincon.
His first dozen posts are useless, randomly reading people as town for BS reasons. I understand this is RVS, but just adds in to what becomes random posting for no reason.
Post #231 - Naked vote on tree
A bunch more posts of absolutely no content, except to admit he's just sheeping Majiffy
Posts Post #715 - Post #721 have slightly useful info as they provide his reads on a few people, but with no content to back them up.
More useless posts, and then moved his vote back to Tree, who he admittedly thinks is town, just to get Majiffy to help get a lynch on D2.
In post 998, notscience wrote:I told you I have my own opinions
None of which have been thoroughly expressed as of yet.
In post 1066, notscience wrote:Yes shit
I'm about to explain why my reads are better than everyone rlses
I mean give a readslist
(I really mean the former)
Readslist finally came almost 100 posts later with no evidence to back up his reads on most people.
Post #1140 actually includes some content and reasoning, but it's the first in over 100 posts to really do so, and is also after the Aero wagon was already rolling.
Post #1253 has some more content against Aero. I'm still of the Aero is most likely scum mindset, so this may actually seem to be more meaningful than it actually is because of that.
Basically nothing but fluff posts since that.-
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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In post 2145, Psyche wrote:ns is defined by fluff
That's not really a defense...if he's not doing anything useful, it's not in town's best interest to keep him alive.-
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That's great...speaking of which, you never answered this post from me:
In post 2074, shaddowez wrote:I might be able to buy that. Who's your proposed lynch for D1 then? Or did you want to wait for when you do your reads list tomorrow?-
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In post 2155, reinoe wrote:In post 2153, texcat wrote:I have struggled reading all of the posts and I believe Titus when she says (over and over and over again) that sheknowsthat Aero is going to flip scum. If I find out that she lied about knowing, my next vote will be easy.
VOTE: Aeronaut
The above post is really fucking scummy.
Phone post.
I agree with this. People useknowall the time in mafia, especially when it's based on gut. Considering it's D1 and the setup said it was a daystart, unless he's assuming Titus has a day role there's no way for her to absolutelyknow.-
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Just got back from my V/LA, and am not sure what the Hell I came back in the middle of. Going to try and read the case on texcat to see where I stand on that one.
In post 2633, Alina wrote:Wait. So if Aero is a gunsmith that's actually likely because it would be useful for a/the scumteam to have someone immune to being checked by him. This didn't even cross my mind. I feel tripped out right now
A GS can also be used against town since it can find cops and vigs. Even if there is a mafia doctor, that wouldn't lend much weight to Aero being town for me.-
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From the wiki (which could be wrong, but it's the best place I know of for info):
The Gunsmith is an information role that can target a player at Night to learn if they have a gun in flavor. Members of the Mafia (that are not Doctors), Cops, FBI Agents, Vigilantes, other Gunsmiths, Paranoid Gun Owners, etc. all have guns in traditional flavor. Notably, Serial Killers and Doctors do not have guns.-
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- Pronoun: He/Him
I love how people call me a lurker when I've been V/LA for the past 4 days. I don't generally have a high post count, and yet it's still in the range of some that aren't being called lurkers. However, I digress.
I read through tex's ISO, and while there are one or two posts that I wasn't fond of, he doesn't reek of scum to me. The Aegor wagon, however, I can get behind. He continues to push the texcat lynch with little reasoning, most of them time referring people to check his ISO. He's been tunneling since the beginning, and hasn't provided much to the game.
VOTE: Aegor-
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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In post 2678, Psyche wrote:In post 2677, shaddowez wrote:I love how people call me a lurker when I've been V/LA for the past 4 days. I don't generally have a high post count, and yet it's still in the range of some that aren't being called lurkers. However, I digress.
I read through tex's ISO, and while there are one or two posts that I wasn't fond of, he doesn't reek of scum to me. The Aegor wagon, however, I can get behind. He continues to push the texcat lynch with little reasoning, most of them time referring people to check his ISO. He's been tunneling since the beginning, and hasn't provided much to the game.
VOTE: Aegor
these are bad reasons to vote for aegor
vote for aegor because muffinman reads him as scum
Are you reading muffin as town?-
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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Titus, does that depend on how the mod runs it? According to the wiki, there doesn't seem to be a difference: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Gunsmith
It sounds more like a yes/no to me than anything else.-
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2604
- Joined: May 28, 2014
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2604
- Joined: May 28, 2014
- Pronoun: He/Him
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2604
- Joined: May 28, 2014
- Pronoun: He/Him
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 2604
- Joined: May 28, 2014
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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I was at a renn faire all day, and did not expect to come back to this close a lynch. I was good for a D2 lynch on Aero yesterDay, so I'm stating intent to hammer Aero tomorrow, but really want an answer on why he chose to investigate Titus. If Aero flips town GS, tomorrow's lynch will be a no-brainer. Has anyone but gameplay confirmed Aero claimed in their QT? If Aero comes back as scum, it'd be interesting to know why gameplay was the only one backing up his claim.
P-EditI guess my intent is null now-
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 2604
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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In post 3034, Alina wrote:oka whyyy
I don't understand this response - Oka's right. My intent to hammer tomorrow (RL, not game tomorrow) still stands.-
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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Did you know your vote was already on Aero? Were you trying to stall the Day until another VC by pretending to hammer?-
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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I hate this site sometimes, eating my posts.
Oka: Please explain your reasons for protecting Josh, a claimed PR, night 1, and then Marquis on N2? It seems awful convenient that there were two deaths both nights, but the PR you "protected" didn't die N1 and then they did on N2 when you "protected" somebody else.-
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2604
- Joined: May 28, 2014
- Pronoun: He/Him
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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- Joined: May 28, 2014
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