Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)

[wgeurts]

Could you explain how I'm mason fishing?
I haven't even mentioned them.

[wgeurts]

Also...
@

mod Ha, stole yer page top again!

[Mathdino]

Do you not care to respond to the rest of my post?

Scum want to find masons because masons are the only people other than scum that know people's alignments. So they look for interactive tells.

Which is what you just did with me and Newbie.

[wgeurts]

Do you not care to respond to the rest of my post?

Scum want to find masons because masons are the only people other than scum that know people's alignments. So they look for interactive tells.

Which is what you just did with me and Newbie.

So you saying I'm a mason?
Also, I'm looking for possible tells which can come useful later if someone flips scum, at the moment they have no worth. The fact you're not denying my link however does make me think that you and newbie may be linked, the fact your also attacking me for finding tells is also odd.
How many people are in this game?

[wgeurts]

Do you not care to respond to the rest of my post?

Scum want to find masons because masons are the only people other than scum that know people's alignments. So they look for interactive tells.

Which is what you just did with me and Newbie.

What do you want me to respond to btw?

[Mathdino]

13 people are in this game. And no, I'm saying you're trying to find masons by noting 'weak links'. And yes, I'm attacking you for finding interactive DEFENCIVE tells, because that's information the scum can use. Because masons know each other are town. And are likely to subconsciously defend each other. Have you ever played with masons?

IDK, do you think nothing of my case? I'm not gonna write you off as scum but I certainly will to people who don't defend themselves. Can't say I appreciate you asking me what I 'want'...

Totally off topic: Wisdom, I can't stop reading your posts in L's voice. It's freaking me out.

[wgeurts]

How do I know you're not scum trying to stop me from finding a real link?
What you're saying is absolute BS, links are very helpful to find for all but the scum if it's posed against them. It even helps the masons who in the worst case scenario can claim to stop themselves from being lynched. They aren't exactly the almighty PR so I doubt the mob will kill them over a VT. Associative tells are town, the scum dislikes them if they are right and tries to warp or stop them.

[wgeurts]

Dino, I now fully believe you're Mason or Scum with Newbie, caremto confirm which one?

[Mathdino]

Well, on the bright side, you've answered my "Have you ever played with masons" question with a full-on "No".

Scum wants to find masons, because masons can confirm themselves as town by claiming.
Scum wants to kill known masons because they are confirmed town and thus unlikely to be lynched.
You pointing out possible 'weak links' is anti-town because it helps scum PR hunt.
You seriously wouldn't kill masons over a VT?

I legitimately can't tell whether you're pretending to not understand this or really don't. If you don't, then you're noobtown. But given your Slayer Gambit earlier, this could be just one more big reaction test.
My vote stands.

[Mathdino]

That was written before 181. Now you are FULL ON MASON FISHING.

Lynch this guy. I can't really put it any other way.

[Mathdino]

Sorry for triple post. Written before 182 is what I meant. As in, I didn't see him DIRECTLY ASK ME TO CLAIM.

[Wisdom]

Eh. Tbh I feel like scum wouldn't do it so blatantly.

[Wisdom]

@wguerts
Can you stop talking about links and masons and everything related to this? You may not realize it, but it does help scum and nobody else.

[Wisdom]

I'm not changing my reasons, if we're going to face it it was really weak reasoning I even said that when I gave my reasons. What have I changed? I'm honestly confused.

I still don't get you.

You voted me because me liking wagons didn't sit well with you. Correct?
Now you're calling that reason weak?
And you've even said that you voted me out of thin air (randomly) which is clearly untrue.

So what exactly is the truth?

[Mathdino]

Eh. Tbh I feel like scum wouldn't do it so blatantly.

He already proved he's willing to fake a noobtown act; he told me I passed his 'test' by assuming he was noobtown. Because I felt back then that scum wouldn't vote you so blatantly.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

Directly asking me to claim is a lynchable offence. There is no town motivation to do that.

[wgeurts]

Well Newbie, that explains your wallposting, haha. Are there any records left of one of your scum games and town games?

@wgeurts: RVS wagons can be good ways of getting reactions out of people. Why so concerned?

I'm not, reaction test are good.
I also will randomly question for reactions as to end the RVS as fast as possible.

Not voting until there's more info.

Voting, and the reactions to voting, actually provide a lot more info. then just saying you aren't going to vote. Is there some reason you want to hold back?

I usually abstain from RVS and try to figure out and spot any further minor slips. I'll then yank us all out of this stupid phase, huzzah.

Because I like wagons. How do you feel about that?

Not good.

What are you going to do about that?

Vote you as this is not sitting well with me.
VOTE: Wisdom

So you said you wouldn't vote until there was more info.

This

is more info? Explain.

It's weak info and very assumptious but ok:
You could well be trying to decieve people to look like your a joking town while you may be scum.
It's all the info I've got right now, it's time for me to wait for more.

Wisdom, by thin air I mean nearly nothing, I said that in the same post I wrote down my reason just look at the quotes. Also for all those people accusing me of making up the get out of RVS story, read these to quotes from me before I voted wisdom. Yeah, I had already said what I was intending to do. I'll stop naming links and I'll keep them to myself as you lot seem to disagree with my oppinions on that matter.

[wgeurts]

Note the "very assumptious" I said.

[Wisdom]

You were answering to acryon there. Were you referring to me?

[Wisdom]

Also for all those people accusing me of making up the get out of RVS story, read these to quotes from me before I voted wisdom. Yeah, I had already said what I was intending to do.

That doesn't make it more town-motivated. You could have been preparing the ground for your "get out of RVS" act with those posts.

[Mathdino]

You planning on continuing to ignore me? I would legit be flabbergasted if no one votes you by tomorrow just for that. I asked you a total of five (5) questions in that spoilered post. Two (2) of them are rhetorical and don't necessarily require answering, but it'd still be nice if you actually explained yourself to the people voting you.

That's not an opinion, brother. Asking for claims and pointing out links between people directly helps the scum hunt for PRs. The scum know more than the town does. They can use what town says about links better than the town can.

Edit: lol I still think his Slayer Gambit was planned. Except as scum fishing for reactions, since that gambit is insanely inaccurate.

[wgeurts]

You planning on continuing to ignore me? I would legit be flabbergasted if no one votes you by tomorrow just for that. I asked you a total of five (5) questions in that spoilered post. Two (2) of them are rhetorical and don't necessarily require answering, but it'd still be nice if you actually explained yourself to the people voting you.

That's not an opinion, brother. Asking for claims and pointing out links between people directly helps the scum hunt for PRs. The scum know more than the town does. They can use what town says about links better than the town can.

Edit: lol I still think his Slayer Gambit was planned. Except as scum fishing for reactions, since that gambit is insanely inaccurate.

Could you quote the questions I've missed?

[wgeurts]

Also for all those people accusing me of making up the get out of RVS story, read these to quotes from me before I voted wisdom. Yeah, I had already said what I was intending to do.

That doesn't make it more town-motivated. You could have been preparing the ground for your "get out of RVS" act with those posts.

Doesn't that seem a little far fetched?
Why would scum try to get out of RVS and why would they force it themselves instead of blending in and going with the flow.

[Mathdino]

This post is gonna be a joyride. NO ONE QUOTE ALL OF IT.

Spoiler:

As you can see from the bolded, Wisdom challenged wgeurts to do something about his discomfort of wagons. He most likely didn't expect that kind of response from Wisdom, and he kind of had no choice but to vote Wisdom since it would've looked bad not to back up his words after he put on a show of showing strong dislike towards Wisdom's random lynch in the first place.
[...]
With a little heat, he caved and unlynched, falling back on the explanation of reaction fishing. Lol. He even admits that his reasons were BS from the jump, but covered it up well with a "you're definitely town because you reacted a certain way to my sketchy reasoning, sketchy reasoning I definitely did on purpose."

Sorry, but that argument very much seems out of thin air. It wouldn't have looked bad at all to dislike something and not vote based on it; half the playerlist has done that. Again, I don't LIKE what he did but he's completely consistent with wanting to leave RVS.

Also, how was that pressure?
A quick ISO would already show that Mathdino had incorrectley read my playstyle. I had litteraly already said something along the lines of I'm going to yank us all out of RVS. This also seems really opurunistic as discussion is going on this subhect already and you're just like "Hey, guys check this new definetley not based off others case on wgeurts.". This seems really scum to me, the timing is just perfect.
VOTE: Newbie
I'll ISO in a second to see more.

I did? Show me where.

My point was I wasn't sure if everything you said before the gambit was part of the gambit itself. And yes, it's not based off of others.

Where's the opurunism in voting what she finds scummy?

You do know I already said they were weak as heck in or shortly after the vote and before pressure?
I beg you haven't even truely read all my posts and you jumped on me using others reasoning and some made up crumpets.

Also, if you've read my votes after that my intent was to get us out of RVS and the vote was a tool. Please meta read me and you will see this, votes are tools while needed and weapons once the time comes.

Haha, yeah I'm right. A quick ISO has shown you've done no scum hunting and literally just jumped on me out of the blue once people discussed my play. Yeah, I'm happy with my vote.

I recommend others to look at Newbies ISO.
Ignore his meta, the fact he's provided it probaly means he's aware of it and able to manipulate it.

I don't like these posts at all. At the very least they showcase misguided arrogance, and at the most it's scummy. It'd be a dumbass move to not read your posts whether town or scum (although given your post spamming, it wouldn't be as dumb now). Newbie did do scumhunting; her first target was you.

Do you not count that as scumhunting because you were her first suspicion?

And lastly, did you just SELF-META right before saying that Newbie providing her previous games should be discounted???

Newbie giving links for us to read is helpful. You telling us why you're town because of it is suspicious.

I expected an OMGUS accusation to come from somewhere. Honestly I do find OMGUS rather weak, it basically allows you to attack someone as scum and if they retaliate you can shrug it off as OMGUS. I'm not voting Newbie as OMGUS, I'm voting him because her vote was very opportunistic and he hasn't scum hunted what so ever so far yet suddenley leaps on to me as discussion on me arises. If Newbie's actions change so will my read however if someone votes someone after they vote them it doesn't have to be OMGUS. It would have been OMGUS if I had no reasons to do so and voted him because he voted me. I did have reasons so no OMGUS. Now I can hear people saying;
"You only voted him because of his vote and push in his post though."
No, I'm voting because in that post there is some real scummy stuff. Just because Newbie voted me doesn't give im the right to be immune from me. The fact you're saying this shows a weak link woth Newbie, if he flips scum I'll be suspicious of you.

Is there anything Newbie could've said in her vote post that you wouldn't find suspicious?

And I'm not sure how pointing out OMGUS is showing some sort of link. I have a townread on Newbie. However I could have a scumread on her and still think you're OMGUSing.

What the heck is wrong with random voting in the RVS?
My vote on him was almost litteraly based off thin air.

That was not a random vote. You made up a BS reason and voted him for reactions. That's not random. You're being seriously inconsistent, man.

And yes, it was LITERALLY based off of thin air.

Okay I decided to spoiler the above but I highly recommend y'all reading. If you're gonna quote parts of it, remove the spoiler tag.

Conclusions: wgeurts is way scummier than I thought before, but since I still don't think Victor and he are scum together, I'm going to keep my vote on Victor for now. Scumspects are in order, Victor or wgeurts, and TTH. Newbie still seems town.

I bolded my questions.

[Wisdom]

Also for all those people accusing me of making up the get out of RVS story, read these to quotes from me before I voted wisdom. Yeah, I had already said what I was intending to do.

That doesn't make it more town-motivated. You could have been preparing the ground for your "get out of RVS" act with those posts.

Doesn't that seem a little far fetched?
Why would scum try to get out of RVS and why would they force it themselves instead of blending in and going with the flow.

For towncred? "Look, I got us out of RVS, I'm totally town"

[wgeurts]

Thank you,
1. It was opportunistic as it happened right as discussion on me was picking up and he used no new arguments.
2. It's not scum-hunting if you're using others reasonig as your own.
3. I can't link any games as they are all ongoing.
4. Yes, had he done it at any other given moment in time it would have been fine.
5. I meant that Wisdom was random voting in the RVS and I made some crappy reason to start discussion.