Open 579: Pick Your (Chocolate) Power -- Game Over

[Mathdino]

can i also note that Victor is scumreading not only the people who are scumreading lurkers

but also the lurkers themselves

example: Venrob

[droog]

yes but it doesnt make you town

[Mathdino]

i'm not claiming this makes me town? i'm completely aware trying to prove oneself as town is pretty much pointless

i'm claiming this makes victor scum

[Alchemist21]

alchemist, do you have any substantial comments on victor's catchup posts?

Nothing new. I still stand by what I said the first time; he's just wastig time with what looks more like scum busy work than town catching up.

VOTE: Victor

[droog]

why does it look like busy work

[Mathdino]

it looks like the opposite of busy work honestly

every aspect of his posting is used to mudsling half the playerlist

looks like he's setting up for joining whatever wagon he feels like

or throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks

[VictorDeAngelo]

I'm not sure how I feel about that above post. I know Victor has to catch up, but it looks like instead of focusing on reading and catching up, he put more energy into questioning things that have been answered already. Most, if not all, of the questions he asks can be found by reading through the thread.

I mostly throw thoughts out and move on. If I'm in a non lazy mood I sometimes go back and strikethrough, but more often that not I'm in a lazy mood, so...

I just am not a fan of catch ups like that. To broken and disjointed. I really don't want to have to click a hyperlink to see what he is referencing and then decifer his posts to actually make sense. And how can he possibly keep track of who answers what questions. I don't see him actually looking for answers here, just acting like he is.

It's what works for me. The hyperlink let's people see what I'm talking about. In my experience it seems to differ player to player if they read the post but I can often just reask questions I read.

Droog - I've never seen anyone PEdit in rvs just to get on wagon.

Have you seen scum do this?

No, I've never seen anyone PEdit in rvs just to get on a wagon.

9 - MathDino - This is my first time playing this setup, but I find it noteworthy that you tried to get a good draft slot even if you failed.

Wow. It's this kind of question that almost tries to paint something as scummy just because it stands out. He did the same thing in 575 when I asked for someone's meta early on and he's like "I find it weird that you're asking for meta this early".

That's not a question. You see a question is something like:

"What colour is the sky?"

as opposed to

"The sky is blue."

Often there's a convenient ? to help newer readers along.

Also noteworthy and scummy are not the same thing.

13 - Droog - I read this question as Droog missing Rom's rvs and trying to go after for it.

Legit.

Was this sarcasm or just pointless?

19 - MathDino - On a scale of 1-10 how serious was this?

Pretty serious. The above had a seriousness level of 2, btw.

I don't understand the second sentence; are you trying to say that my question wasn't serious?

30 - MathDino - Dislike this thinking from MathDino. Town have as much reason to want those roles as scum.

Strange how evidence proves you wrong.

Yeah, like how the jailkeeper flipped scum... oh wait, no he didn't.

32 - MathDino - So every scumteam picked Jailkeeper. That seems like the one constant you should have picked up on.

I did pick up on this. Unfortunately tracker is also a strong role and is also likely to be picked by town. Meanwhile, vig/vengeful, not so much.

Right cause town have no reason to want an extra kill.

44 - MathDino - This post just seemed like an attempt to throw down some artificial reads so he go after Amy. I kinda feel like she had something.

Your confbias is showing. Guessing you're scum though.

Sure, post 44 and confbias set in.

I mean seriously, did you even think about some of this stuff before you wrote it.

62 - Alchemist21 - Where the blue hell did this vote come from?

Already answered.

He did, but I still don't like the vote much.

63 - MathDino - That said, he got an interesting response from Dino. It kinda reads like a defense.

Except it doesn't. At all. Enjoying how almost every post I made back then was scummy.

I wouldn't say it was just the posts you made back then.

115 - MathDino - Now why are you so keen on rvs behaviour? Have you ever caught scum through rvs?

Okay this REALLY stands out to me. Above after 97 you ask Alchemist why he had no reads yet, but now you're criticising my trying to get very early reads. NICE. GOING. I don't remember if I've ever caught scum through RVS, but it's a damn nice place to start instead of being useless, no?

No I'm asking why your trying to form a metaread on Flubber based on rvs. So "Have you ever caught scum through rvs". Because I haven't seen anyone do that.

Also rvs was finished before this point and it's fair to ask players to form some reads off non rvs content and also ask others why their more interested in rvs metareads than other stuff.

118 - Anenenin - This condensed case feels forced, and seems like overcompensation to explain why he was on the Amy wagon.

So on one hand, I was making a forced attempt to throw down artificial reads, and on the other hand, Aneninen is overcompensating and putting TOO MUCH to explain why he was voting you? You're kidding.

[/quote]

Yep, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

More later, I have other stuff to do.

[droog]

vote dino with me victor

[Mathdino]

1. Semantics that I don't care to argue about. Yeah, it wasn't a question, I realised that after reading the post but I didn't edit because you can literally replace 'question' with 'statement' and it'd be correct. Don't distract from the main point.
2. "Legit" was sarcasm and a terrible suspicion.
3. I'm trying to say that "Legit" wasn't serious.
4. I didn't say scum ALWAYS flip jailkeeper, don't pull anecdotal evidence on me. Patterns show scum want jailkeeper far more than town does. FAR more.
5. Again, you're arguing against a different point than I'm making. I'm not saying vig is ALWAYS scum, I'm saying scum have more of a reason to want it than town.
6. moving on
7. moving on
8. moving on
9. Why does this matter? Trying to develop reads is good. Any wagon is good.

You're playing the same damn way Amy was. Trying to paint 'noteworthy' to mean something other than 'scummy'. Okay, you've noted it. Now what do you make of it? Are you going to catch scum with it? Is it alignment indicative?

[Aneninen]

soon.

[farside22]

If wgeurts votes Ank we have L-3.

farside

, forgive me if this is due to never actually reading your ISO, but what caused the flip-flop on Ankamius between today and yesterday?

He's there in the background. I feel a bit paranoid because GC scum read the spot and town read amy.
In our last game I felt amy was more on the ball in the beginning and she explained things well. This game not so much and I took her as busy as a possible reason to call her null. I didn't really think she did much with the wagon on her. So when I feel myself disagree with a read from a player who was in the same game as me I wonder about the connection there and it has me step back a bit.

Let me give it a shot.

wgeurts

: scummy posting early on, then it became more leanish town near the end of D1, then null.

I'm not going to ISO wgeurts just to point out the hard limits on these sections (early D1, late D1, early D2). Because effort, and I don't see the utility of doing it. I don't even know if there are hard limits. I'm just going off of memory.

Flubbernugget: town posting throughout, though mostly unhelpful

His posts look like another game where he was town. In that other game, I was assured that this is just how he plays. Not really engaged until something grabs his attention, and then he just sort of flickers out. His play here is in accordance with that. His play here also doesn't strike me as scummy in tone/content, either. At most - and this is really stretching it - I guess you could go the "lazy scum" route, but that just doesn't really fit his play in my opinion.

VictorDeAngelo

: I thought Amy's posts read pretty town; I think Victor's replaced-in posting style is scummy, but the fact that he's running with it while people have stated how much they dislike it reads town, as it looks like Victor isn't actually looking at up-to-date posting while reading through for the first time. Not saying that

only

scum

would

look at up-to-date posting while reading through (for various reasons, including the fact that I kept an eye on what was going on in new posts while reading through, and I know that I am town), but that scum

would not

(likely) just ignore the present-day game while reading through, and scum would probably like to readjust their style to stop doing something several players have said that they really hate.

Amy's posts read town to me. She said things. Other people gave her grief for it. She responded. Then she and Anen got into a stupid back and forth that I skimmed over. Nothing exciting.

VOTE: Ankimus
Lets lynch the poor replacement.

@Victor:

have you replaced into a game before. Is this how you always replace in?

How do you feel about the fact that

nobody

has approved of your catchup style?

I'm certainly not reading your wall posts about past posts that I don't even know if you think are important, you just feel like emoting about. I await a substantive pos at the end I your read through tha tells me who you suspect, and why.

I get Flubber, but not really anything about gerts.
Also victor replaced in a game I was in and he was scum that game. Guess where I stand.

Vote: victor

[farside22]

Sorry I'm phone posting but I had one question.
Gerts: why the vote now?

[droog]

gerts

[VictorDeAngelo]

1. Semantics that I don't care to argue about. Yeah, it wasn't a question, I realised that after reading the post but I didn't edit because you can literally replace 'question' with 'statement' and it'd be correct. Don't distract from the main point.

I didn't. The main point was I said it was notable and not scummy, and thus are clearly different things.

2. "Legit" was sarcasm and a terrible suspicion.

Noted.

3. I'm trying to say that "Legit" wasn't serious.

Also noted.

4. I didn't say scum ALWAYS flip jailkeeper, don't pull anecdotal evidence on me. Patterns show scum want jailkeeper far more than town does. FAR more.

But the flip shows how wrong these assumptions are. The idea that these roles indicate alignment is either poor logic or scum trying to push town in the wrong direction (i.e if you know the jailkeeper, vig etc were town it would make sense to try and get people suspected roles at this early stage).

5. Again, you're arguing against a different point than I'm making. I'm not saying vig is ALWAYS scum, I'm saying scum have more of a reason to want it than town.

I know your not saying the vig is always scum and I don't know why your making out that I tried to say you did. I do disagree with the idea that scum would want an extra kill more than the town. Vig is an extra kill. Both sides want it. I don't see any reason to say scum want it more.

9. Why does this matter? Trying to develop reads is good. Any wagon is good.

I can't be bothered to work out when the moving on

You're playing the same damn way Amy was. Trying to paint 'noteworthy' to mean something other than 'scummy'.

You mean the actually understanding English game?

Okay, you've noted it. Now what do you make of it? Are you going to catch scum with it? Is it alignment indicative?

Hilariously, I actually did the opposite. I thought it was more time to try to aim for a high placement like this and the thinking suggested you didn't co ordinate with others. So yeah I did think it was slightly alignment indicative. However not enough to weigh against some of the other stuff I saw from you.

I'm slightly disheartened to see the wagon on me.

@Formerfish

- your predecessor didn't do much and I didn't keep track on how much I was mentioning each person. I have found your play townie and I guess I just didn't note any particular posts of yours. Is the vote anything more than hurt feelings?

@Farside

- Wtf? I mean seriously I getting voted because last time I replaced into a game I was scum? Seriously. What kind of dumb logic is that?

[VictorDeAngelo]

OK, I'm pretty much behind lynching the Venrob slot, the Ank slot or the AdrienC slot (oh wait, AdrienC is still in it). I feel best about finding scum in Ankimus right now:

VOTE: Ollie

[Mathdino]

how, in light of meta, GC's response to the reaction test, and literally every post GC has made
are you still behind lynching Venrob with a fresh view of the game

also formerfish and farside are townvotes btw

[VictorDeAngelo]

how, in light of meta, GC's response to the reaction test, and literally every post GC has made
are you still behind lynching Venrob with a fresh view of the game

I have never played with either Venrob or GC so I don't have meta on them.

I don't really see how the reaction test makes GC town, why do you think it makes him town?

also formerfish and farside are townvotes btw

I don't get it?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Oh mod just asked if I wanted in since I volunteered earlier.

On phone, haven't read game, but I'm VT.

So what's droog's line tomorrow when I flip green?

I mean, this is hardly screaming townie, unless you think scum will cave at the first mention of the word confscum.

[Formerfish]

V, my feelings don't get hurt off something like that. I find your catch up disingenuous, and think that if you agreed with my posts or felt the same way you'd say so. I find it hard to believe with what I have put into the game you couldn't find a single thing to comment on. My goal was to get you to interact with me directly, because when you flip scum I don't want your buddies to be able to point and say "Hey guys look! V didn't mention FF at all during his catch up. Must be a scum partner."

[Flubbernugget]

soon.

[wgeurts]

Why if you aren't liking a flubber vote it should then be ankimus

He instantly starts with a siv scum read from gut to him being "slimy as hell" in posts 296 and 297. This is a horrible reason and to make matters worse he isn't voting him besides his clear message he's scum (and it was incorrect as Siv pointed out in his post afterwords). The pressure was only starting to build on siv so it would make sense as scum to set up for a vote onto a possible growing wagon but not to join it before you're sure it will actually grow to create as little suspicion on yourself as possible. In 299 he then tries to justify his read (still not voting) by saying "he got that read in the first 1/3 of the game". Well, how convenient, now he doesn't have make up fake reasons. It's a horrible excuse/reason for his siv read, look at them seriously. He does eventually vote in 311 saying it's not naked (in 313) because he had explained it on the last page. Well if I remember correctly the first actual only reason was refuted and the second was "I thought you were scum by reading the first 1/3 of the game and can't find enough town reads to balance it". Basically, he's not explained it so it's a naked vote. The problem is he's trying to justify it is a valid vote where as it isn't.

Around 363 he basically votes venrob for... what he's doing himself. After she had said earlier "this is town venrob" like 2 or 3 pages ago. She also continues to brag how strong his read on siv is in 448, it's still based off thin air and it seems she's avoiding pressuring siv to get answers for her read. She then lurks over to D2 and a siv lynch, wether this is on purpose or not is up for debate.

It's mostly based off how he acted with siv.

Why I'm voting ankimus slot.

[VictorDeAngelo]

V, my feelings don't get hurt off something like that. I find your catch up disingenuous, and think that if you agreed with my posts or felt the same way you'd say so. I find it hard to believe with what I have put into the game you couldn't find a single thing to comment on.

Which is pretty much why I think it's hurt feelings. I could do a pbpa and point out what I found townie, but really I don't find always find it necessary to point to every little thing - otherwise my catchup would be five times the length and even harder to read.

My goal was to get you to interact with me directly, because when you flip scum I don't want your buddies to be able to point and say "Hey guys look! V didn't mention FF at all during his catch up. Must be a scum partner."

Well I won't flip scum so it isn't really going to do you any good.

[Ollie]

OK, I'm pretty much behind lynching the Venrob slot, the Ank slot or the AdrienC slot (oh wait, AdrienC is still in it). I feel best about finding scum in Ankimus right now:

VOTE: Ollie

As soon as you've come under significant pressure, you've hopped on the largest wagon. Love it.

[Ollie]

VOTE: Ankimus
Lets lynch the poor replacement.

VOTE: ollie
Y'all know what I meant ta do.

no actual reason though.

[Aneninen]

So, let's see what happens in Pepperland nowadays.

(1) MathDino's analysis, 962 – nice colors and plenty of information. What work and what a pity that it doesn't tells me anything right now.

(2) Venrob asks for replacement. Gives hints for the forthcoming replacement. Is it important? Maybe after a scumflip that might tell us something about the Venrob slot, or about Wgeurts or MathDino.

(3) Green Crayons claims VT in 985. Should I buy that? He's the 5th on the draft list and Siv was VT... weird... Also, I don't know why GC was so town for MathDino in 988. Before the claim, though, I hadn't find that slot scummy (as far as I can remember). But somehow that VT claim gave me bad feelings.

(4) Also, it's a hmm-hmmm that MathDino's scumreads are (apart from Wgeurts) in the early-draft section. MathDino, can you explain the "reaction test" on GC you mention in 1003? I must have missed it.

(5) Alchemist's 992 is either an interesting theory or a WIFOM.

(6) And there come those Wgeurts-walls. I haven't seen such Wgeurts-posts before. Also, no analysis on MathDino and GreenCrayon? Hey-hey-hey...! 1046:

"Why y'all should be voting flubbernugget."

– right after those walls? (And another post about Ankamius.) That is over-explaining, in my opinion and gives me scumvibes.

(7) Formerfish, 1057 ..."explore" Wgeurts with that vote? Why "explore"? Why not "I'm scumreading" or not voting for him at all? "Exploring" on Day2 is weird at best.

(8) Alchemist, 1065,

"This is the most we've gotten from Flubbernugget all game."

– I can confirm this.

(9) Wgeurts, 1069 and next posts – Uhhhh, I think I need to re-calibrate my scum-o-meter, these have just given an overdriven square-wave.

(10) GreenCrayons, 1098, how can Wgeurts's Day2 be null? The other reads are vague and/or weirdly-weighted too. Eg. 5 rows (on my screen) on VDA, 4 on Formerfish and 1–1 rows on many players? (More about the latter players later, I've found that post.) Also, the two major scumreads are in the early-draft and yet he thinks it would be bad if he knew/posted about the role Venrob applied for.................... Also, votes for Ankamius, who is under replacement. La wow!

(11) Druuge also votes for Ankamius, who's under replacement. Hmmm... And Mathdino too... Also Wgeurts... Now I really think that this wagon is emerging in an unnatural way!

(12) MathDino launches the VDA wagon. Does anyone have a meta on VDA anyway? FormerFish joines with little-to-no content. Alchemist is next... wow! I don't know what to think... partly because VDA's 1156 seems to be format-broken. His later posts are ugh, anyway. Especially that vote for Ollie. (As far as I can see, Wgeurts is not on this wagon, we should remember this.)

________

Somehow I've got a feeling that one of the most active players (who is actually forming the atmosphere) is scum. I'm getting less sure about everything, even if I hate when this happens, I must admit it.
Also, those quick wagons are strange too.

Wgeurts –

probably town

changed to scum because of the unusual posts plus the reasons above.

Ankamius

Ollie – lean town. No change.
Alchemystique – unsure, but lean town now.
Druuge – a possible scum partner of Formerfish – change: if Formerfish is scum at all.
MathDino – Unsorted, seems to be obv-town but can be shrewd scum too, not a good lynch now, I suppose.
Formerfish –

probably scum

I'm less confident about this.
Adrien C – lean town. No change.

Amy

VDA – unsure... I don't like his posts but can someone summarize the case?

Venrob

GreenCrayons –

That'swhy lean town.

Lean scum right now and I don't trust him at all. Why are you (almost) all townread him?
Farside – Probably town. No change.
Flubber – lean town, no change.

VOTE: Wgeurts

And now I have more time for playing so I can play quicker.