Mini 1633 ~ Non-normal Mafias Mafia OVER!!!

[eyestott]

Is the existence of an antitown faction confirmed or denied?
Confirm

[eyestott]

No RVS from me.
Not voting till I scumread.

[eyestott]

Have a scumread*

[eyestott]

It's a preemptive response to any possible queries someone might have about why I'm not voting.

[eyestott]

Huh. That's a good point.

[eyestott]

I'm thinking of revealing a small piece of information I have about the setup.
I'm not too sure whether it would benefit town or scum more, though.

[eyestott]

Information I have because of my role.

[eyestott]

Huh. That's a good point.

lol ok eyestott is probably town so far

I'm thinking of revealing a small piece of information I have about the setup.
I'm not too sure whether it would benefit town or scum more, though.

yep almost def town

I don't think there are any VTs, if that's what you were thinking.

That's not what I'm talking about.

[eyestott]

I mean, I know of a specific (likely) antitown role that is almost definitely in the game.

[eyestott]

Not necessarily a mafia.
I'm an extinguisher.
Now, the arson could be town too, but I'm not so sure.
He could be a 3P.

[eyestott]

Yeah, that's true.

[eyestott]

Yeah, I have that as a suspicion.

[eyestott]

You didn't use that logic last game.
Metal, care to comment on my reveal, and the implications?

[eyestott]

Holy shit om you are in this game too???

You gonna answer my question, kind sir?

[eyestott]

So you're a cult preventer?
What, a shrink?

[eyestott]

Oh crap, yeah.
like with me, don't say anything that you think will be antitown to reveal.

[eyestott]

What's even the point of policy lynching?

[eyestott]

Policy lynching is almost always a bad idea. And obviously, one vote does not a lynch make.

When isn't it a bad idea?

[eyestott]

I'd disagree for this phase being shortened, but I think the other days definitely should be.

[eyestott]

That's a good point.
I fifthify the vote to reduce the deadline to 2 weeks.

[eyestott]

How can you know Flubber is definitely town whe he only has 3 short posts?

[eyestott]

And I agree.
Don't townread me because of my claim; in this game, ANY (well) role could belong to any alignment, especially if there's multiple mafias.

[eyestott]

Im not sure yet.
I've had a huge bunch of games with math recently (especially through marathon) and generally get an accurate read of him. im not too sure yet, though, so I wouldn't like to lynch him, as we do pretty good when we work together.

[eyestott]

I don't have a comment on your other reads, as I'm not able to read someone so quickly.

[eyestott]

Gimme good reasons why mathdino is scum, and I'll consider it.

[eyestott]

I don't care for forced townblocks.
I don't care for early townblocks either.
Both are dangerous if They include a scum.
Anyways, anyone want to have a conversation about something?
Compared to my scumhunting skills, I'm pretty good at talking about roles, so yeah.

[eyestott]

Flubber: a very slight townread RE his questioning of math.

[eyestott]

Mathdino: maybe town? I haven't seen enough of him to make a decision. I'm against lynching him, as he's the player in this game I've played with the most, and he's pretty useful when he's town.

[eyestott]

I'm not sure about Om.

[eyestott]

test

[eyestott]

Woops, I didn't mean to post that, meant to do preview.

[eyestott]

The best move for scum is often pro-town (e.g. bussing when they don't have to). Of course, that blurs the line between pro-town and pro-scum moves. Forming townblocs blurs the line between pro-town and pro-scum, because you don't know if the player forming the townbloc is scum or town. That lack of knowledge doesn't mean the act of creating a townbloc is scummy -- it's null, unless you have independent evidence that the player forming the townbloc is town or scum, in which case the player is town or scum based on something other than the act of forming the townbloc. Point is, forming townblocs is null. Whether they end up having a pro-town or pro-scum effect depends on whether the player forming it is scum.

As for Mastin's "lecture," Mastin's point is more about probability of success or failure -- townblocs formed early fail more often than townblocs formed later; townblocs that form organically without trying succeed more often than townblocs that form consciously. The original lecture -- I looked into it -- was in response to the question, "What's the best way to form townblocs." The question wasn't whether forming townblocs is scummy, and Mastin's answer has to be read in that context. I don't agree 100% with Mastin's analysis, either.

In my experience, I've never seen a townie say to themselves, "X is town because X formed a townbloc," so forming townblocs doesn't have much value as far as tricking townies into thinking you're town. I've also never seen any evidence that people who "force" townblocs are scum more often than town. In fact, in my experience, the vast majority of folks forming the townblocs are town.

I'm not saying Metal is town. I don't know. I think as a matter of scumhunting, a better approach is asking Metal why he thinks Om and TN are town. Trying to understand his thought-process, etc.

THIS GUY IS TOWN

Why?

[eyestott]

thank you, tn.

[eyestott]

I'm thinking:
If there's two scumteams, with an arsonist in one, that team gets an extra kill. I would say there's also an equivalent killer (maybe a poisoner) in the other team, and an anti-poisoner town role.
Either that, or the arsonist (if it exists) is a 3P.
That's just my opinion. If you want to comment on it, please do.
I've faced the fact that I'm much more useful at role related matters than actual scumhunting. I will try and scumhunt, mind you, but I'm just trying to utilise my strengths.
I know that it's not useful for the whole town to speculate setup, which is why I'm looking for maybe one or two other people maximum to talk about this with me.

[eyestott]

Why?

[eyestott]

I think it's quite important.
It's good to have a rough estimate of how many of us are antitown, isn't it?

[eyestott]

That's actually a good point.
Unless we have masons or something, each town member only knows the existence of one role for sure: themselves.
Once we have some flips, and we have more info, setup spec will become more useful.

[eyestott]

Uhh, I have no idea.
He has 4 posts. 1 is confirming, 2 is a typical reaction to an RVS vote, 3 is solely about the deadline, 4 is about Google.
None of them have towny or scummy things in them, so it's a completely null read.
What about you?

[eyestott]

Ah, so its an absence of content, not the content hes made?

[eyestott]

Baa baa baaaaa baaaaa
VOTE:

[eyestott]

This translates to "I agree with you, Om, and will sheep you:
VOTE: Zombehs."

[eyestott]

Merry

Christmas!

[eyestott]

Youll get used to it, Zombehs!
Our votes on you are anything but permanent, and can be easily alleviated by you posting something of use.

[eyestott]

Lack of contentious posts.

[eyestott]

You should probably join a newbie game, they're much more newcomer friendly.

[eyestott]

Hm?

[eyestott]

It's just that if you play in a non newbie game, it's expected that you're familiar with the terms of mafia. Otherwise, every game needs to explain the same things, on the off chance someone has no idea what things mean.
You don't need to write an essay. Just tell us what you think about things. Gut reads are fine at the moment, given how early the game is.

[eyestott]

Also, you're more likely to be taken seriously if you get an avatar.

[eyestott]

Zombehs is voting himself? I don't like that at all.

Do you see it as scum not playing to wincon, or town ambivalence?

[eyestott]

Yeah, when i was a newbie, I would never have self-voted lik this, or done the other things he's done.

[eyestott]

You know what it's also characteristic of? Newbs being uncertain what to do against perceived veterans attacking en masse.

there is no conviction in his posts
there is no attempt to do anything at all
that is the absence of town motivation
newb status means jack shit when you have those missing

I agree. The newb card cant be played over legitimately scummy behaviour.

[eyestott]

It's a lower priority than the higher-profile scum actions Metal Sonic is taking part in, in my opinion.

If zombehs isn't going to play, get him replaced. It really should be that simple.

The higher profile actions being trying to force a townblock?

[eyestott]

Metal, I'm not gonna form a townblock with anyone D1, or D2, and probably not D3. Why do you want a townblock so much?
Are you literally 100% sure that Om and I are town?

[eyestott]

I don't like Metals promiscuity of reading people as town to the point of wanting to be in a townblock with them.

[eyestott]

What I mean is, Metal is asking everyone to be in a townblocks with him.

[eyestott]

I'm not saying it's scummy, just that I don't like it.
Metal is being unhelpful though, but he's not a newbie.

[eyestott]

Well, he's not being helpful.

[eyestott]

Hi guys... Looks like Metal Sonic went and got himself banned from mafia games so he gets force replaced. I'm going to look for a replacement. You may still vote for and lynch his slot if you wish. You may simply "vote Metal Sonic" or "vote the slot formally known as Metal Sonic" and I will count your vote as being on his slot.

Tell your friends that this game needs a replacement.

Isnt the ban only for joining new games?
I mean, its your choice as to whether hes force-replaced, but I dont know that the ban applies.

[eyestott]

I'm not saying it's scummy, just that I don't like it.
Metal is being unhelpful though, but he's not a newbie.

Well, he's not being helpful.

Remember when you mocked me earlier this game for proposing a policy lynch? (Well, maybe not you, but someone in this Town sure did.)

This is why I'm acceptably OK with them. If you are going to be generally useless or unhelpful to Town and scum won't shoot you because you are either on their team or just a fucking net drag to Town, you should lynch them and get it out of the fucking way rather than have someone who has done fuck all in LYLO making decisions they have no right to make.

Also, they're almost impossible to tell which alignment they are, so you could just hit scum as a bonus.

I see.I understand now.

[eyestott]

Wanna talk about something, Om?

[eyestott]

I dont like it. Math is normally active, but theres probably a reasonable explanation.

[eyestott]

Ooooooohhh
Unfortunately, I dont believe Math has any completed games as scum, other than marathon.

[eyestott]

Meaning, i cant check to see if this is alignment indicative.

[eyestott]

Dayum, lurker is lurking.
Is that indicative of scum though?

[eyestott]

But town can lurk, and scum can appear helpful.

[eyestott]

Im still Gut-town reading Flubber.

[eyestott]

I cant tell why, but he just seems genuine

[eyestott]

Im townreading Pasch. Ill suspect him slightly more if Metal Sonic turns out to be scum,

[eyestott]

Woops, thats what I meant.

[eyestott]

I was writing a response to this, but the internet froze and I lost it. However, I screenshotted what I had written, so yeah:

Fine, but we're on day 1, nowhere near LyLo. A lurker lynch likely won't give us any useful information from the wagon, since it's completely policy choice, not based on the player's content. It's easy to just nod along with policy or feign outrage over it, so you won't find scum from who did or didn't vote a lurker. It's a wasted day.

If we voted someone more involved in the game, a correct lynch wouldn't be any better, but a mislynch would be worse.
In all likelyhood, we will find a better candidate, but for the moment, this is the most viable lynch.

[eyestott]

eyestott, help me lynch Ghost.

Why me?

[eyestott]

Also:
In my first game here in my current stint, in EspeciallyTheLies' Newbie game, I was scum. I started off with a rolefishing play that would look very scummy, because people would blame it on my newbieness, and townread me for it. Thats exactly what happened, and I lasted till 5p Lylo.
Truth is, we have NO IDEA how new zombehs is to mafia.

[eyestott]

Now, im not saying that makes him scum. What Im saying is that we cant just play the newb card.

[eyestott]

eyestott, help me lynch Ghost.

Why me?

He believes you're Town. So do I, for that matter.

That's neither here nor there; the newbie analysis frankly bores me. Not because you're doing it, because it has to be said.

Oh, and for those of you who hate the whole 'lets not lynch lurkers or VIs Day 1' (MS was closer to a VI than a lurker and there's definitely a difference there), at least I have a fucking stance about it and I'm not going to to bullshit you on 'you better get active before I look your way'.

Cool.
I was asked to help lynch you. I'm not just gonna vote you, but I will look over your ISO.

[eyestott]

House guests today, Im busy at the moment. Will post later.

[eyestott]

We need to stop fuelling the discussion of the lurker lynch. Either we do it, or we shut up about it and focus on real hunting.
I will not comment on this anymore unless specifically asked to.

[eyestott]

Would anyone care to chat?

[eyestott]

18, male, Aus

[eyestott]

Wbu

[eyestott]

It's like raunch dressing has been applied to the game.
What makes you think that the debate between tn and pasch is a town vs scum, not a town vs town or a scum vs scum?

[eyestott]

Thinking about it I don't know how to start the game up again because it's basically rvs, lurker bitching, then brakes.

All those in favor of a second rvs by page 19 say I.

How would it work?
This is not an invitation to bite me.

[eyestott]

Vote me*
No idea why it ottocowrecked that.

[eyestott]

In fact, there are just as many people with less than 10 posts as there are people with more posts than average.
Additionally, Om, Tn and I have over half of the posts in the game.

[eyestott]

You're a spamposter though so you've got 50 posts of content at best.

Us two both have fluff posts too.

[eyestott]

do you really think i'd let a zombehs lynch happen so fast
do you rreally think i would cut the day super short when half the playerlist hasnt posted outside RVS with any meaningful content
its hurtful you think i would be so impulsive

You've certainly been arguing in favor of these things and calling me scum for opposing you doing them. So yes, I do think those things.

if we had to lynch purely from lurkers then id go
Zombehs>MTD>FuD>Dino>Ghostlin>Four

Definitely interesting that you leave Metal Sonic out of that list. Was all of this just an attempt to diffuse the wagon there?

Ika isnt on the list either. I dont think that scum Om would so blantantly omit scumbuddies.

[eyestott]

do you really think i'd let a zombehs lynch happen so fast
do you rreally think i would cut the day super short when half the playerlist hasnt posted outside RVS with any meaningful content
its hurtful you think i would be so impulsive

You've certainly been arguing in favor of these things and calling me scum for opposing you doing them. So yes, I do think those things.

if we had to lynch purely from lurkers then id go
Zombehs>MTD>FuD>Dino>Ghostlin>Four

Definitely interesting that you leave Metal Sonic out of that list. Was all of this just an attempt to diffuse the wagon there?

Ika isnt on the list either. I dont think that scum Om would so blantantly omit scumbuddies.

i dont think scum om would blatantly lead the town and be the only one producing content that people actually discuss when i could just up and lurk and nobody would be any wiser about it

im sorry but it rlly annoys me when people are being so stupidly paranoid just because im the only one actually doing things around here
eyestott may seem like hes doing stuff but a lot of his posts are him agreeing with me and discussing theory
pasch is just putting suspicion on me for the stupidest reasons and arguing against lurker lynches
tn is literally floating on a fence because he's doing all of the above and being all round unmemorable in anything he's said

i want solid good reasons for a push on metal sonic taking aside the townblock argument because literally that can be chalked up to his style of play without a doubt

I dont see anything wrong with agreeing with a townread. You just happen to share many of the opinions I do. I dont want to just echo you, though. Some of my posts discuss theory, yes, but ive also done a lot of questioning too. Im just getting fed up with talking about lynching lurkers, but not actually doing anything.

[eyestott]

im not saying you're scum for it
thats not the point of that post
but my personal opinion is that i dont think you are def town yet

Given how early the game is, I'd be surprised if anyone did think anyone was definitely town.
Youre one of my strongest townreads, but im far from certain.
P.Edit: Im agreeing with you, not because I think youre town, but because I genuinely share your opinions.
You can see that from where youve asked me questions, then agreed with my answers.

[eyestott]

i just wish everyone would stop agreeing with me so much

No you dont

[eyestott]

Damnit, i was literally about to reply with "I agree". I see your point, though.

[eyestott]

You agree that i was about to respond with "I agree"?

[eyestott]

Aw hell na

[eyestott]

Ika, this time youd better explain what each colour means. Last time i saw your rainbow reads, you were scum.

[eyestott]

If i sit down and wait, am i not letting you do your magic?

[eyestott]

slight OGCish: i am hardly ever fucking lazy as town, i will tell you point blank if you think im going to be fucking lazy in this game then you are stupid. i know the game has been shitty and lazy mostly do to the apathy but really if thats all your going to say to me i will jsut agro vote you out of spite. thats one thing that grates me real fast is when people think im lazy

Bull. It was completely fair of Om to assume that you're gonna be lazy, given that you said "I've been lazy", then "I'm just wanting to be lazy", then "I got lazy". You know what I thought when you said that? I thought "hey, ika gonna be lazy this game, given that he's been away for a few days, and his first three game posts all mention him being lazy".

[eyestott]

VOTE COUNT 1.7

Om of the Nom (1) ~ FuDuzn
tn5421 (0) ~
MTD (0) ~
ika (0) ~ tn5421

Ghostlin (4) ~ FourTrouble, Flubbernugget, Om of the Nom, ika (l-3)

Metal Sonic (3) ~ Paschendale, Mathdino, Ghostlin
Mathdino (0) ~
Flubbernugget (0) ~
FourTrouble (0) ~
FuDuzn (0) ~
Paschendale (0) ~
eyestott (0) ~
Zombehs (3) ~ eyestott, Metal Sonic, Zombehs

It takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is: 17:00 (CST) Monday, January 19, 2015

Not Voting (2): MTD | Mathdino

[

Still looking for a replacement. Tell your friends. Help me to help you.

zombehs gets a prod

[/quote]

Math is currently voting

[eyestott]

Vote: MTD

get posting, Roman.

[eyestott]

MTD might also be having a long holiday. From what I understand, some christmas/new year celebrations go on until the 4th-5th of January. I'm willing to look into this again at that date, assuming the situation hasn't changed.

Basically this. I thought I would have more time during the last couple days, apologies.

Now though:

V/LA through Jan 2

Oh yeah.

Unvote

.

Vote: Fud

[eyestott]

o whoops i must have missed his v/la post among the mess that is literally anyone else right now who is even moderately active
i've gotten too accustomed to not seeing him, zombeh or fud post much at all
VOTE: FuD

Deja vu much?

[eyestott]

i feel like there is a potential for a four man townblock here but idk if anyone else is as confident as myself in those reads

Which four people are they?

[eyestott]

I'm pretty confident Om and eye are town.

im confident in u town but im still slightly weary of eye bc of the consistent sheeping as i said earlier
what is ur opinion on that

PEDIT: which post was that that was Fu's great post

Is there anything else you're weary about other than my having similar opinions to you?

[eyestott]

I never thought of sheeping as a general scum-tell - largely depends on the player and context. eye seems like the kind of person to sheep, especially in a game like this where everyone is having trouble getting reads (or at least I am).

my early game is not great. Like you, I am having trouble getting reads. However, I have this trouble in pretty much all D1s and partially in subsequent days. What I'm much much better at doing is reading someone once they've claimed. So yeah, I'm a late game player. Yes, I shelled om on my zom vote, but most of my opinions have not been copied from Om.

[eyestott]

myself four ika and flub
potential to switch you for flub but thats roughly it

Why is flub weaker than ika?

[eyestott]

not rlly
but i just dont like it
i am the lone wolf man
not used to having followers

Okay then. I'll stop. If I happen to agree with you on a stance, I'll state that it's not because of you.

[eyestott]

myself four ika and flub
potential to switch you for flub but thats roughly it

Why is flub weaker than ika?

ika jumped up to a near-confirmed town read when he actually started posting

Hmmmmmmm. How so? A desire to be lazy is hardly town.

[eyestott]

Oh, I know what you mean. He certainly wasn't lazy after that. I just don't really understand how a few posts can make anyone see another player as almost confirmed town.

[eyestott]

I would normally say we have more time to talk but considering the "old skool" deadlines I must now debate

What exactly was stopping you before? Yes, I plucked it out of your ISO, but that's because I don't fucking remember you ever.

I kind of got a 'what the fuck' reaction from this question, so I'll restate it another way: what was stopping you from debating? Reading your ISO previous to this post, you are literally debating or interacting literally

NOTHING

.

He who posts the most debates the most?

Also all the debates are theory related so why is this relevant? Requoting and asking a different question doesn't count.

You could say that Om, tn and I are

(•_•) /
( •_•)>⌐■-■ /
(⌐■_■)

Mass debaters.

YEEEEAAAHHH

[eyestott]

It's sort of strange that stiff means stiff, but also means dead person. I mean, a stiff isn't gonna be stiff, not including rigor mortis.

[eyestott]

tn, did you see my marathon game? Thats exactly what it was XD

[eyestott]

This is just purely for symmetry. UNVOTE: . Now its a 5 way tie!
VOTE: FuD.

[eyestott]

Dino is posting in other mafia games, but not this one. Unless his long absence prevents him from being active in this specific game, he seems to be intentionally avoiding this game.

[eyestott]

Alright, the answer I got about the guns is fucking nuts. According to the mod, there is 1 gun in the game right now.

Ghostlin:
1: is your ability x-shot?
2: What kinds of roles have guns? is it the same as gunsmiths?
3: Are there any restrictions on your role?

[eyestott]

k ika
VOTE: Dino

I dont like this. Youve given me a mildly hard time for sheeping you, but now youre sheeping ika?

[eyestott]

I have actually considered voting dino. In Mastin2s game, he was one of the most active players. Hes still playing in other games.
He's playing completely differently to the games ive played with him as town. Either this is his scumgame, or ....
Nope, cant think of a viable reason hed be inactive in just this game.
VOTE: Mathdino.

[eyestott]

Do you reckon we can ask the mod what kinds of roles would have a gun?

[eyestott]

By the way, Im out for most of the next 48 hours, so I apologise.
Two of my best friends (theyre twins) are having their 18th tomorrow.
Ill be out from 11 am to 4pm, then from 6pm to 2pm the next day.
X-post

[eyestott]

Mathdino has made 32 posts in other topics since he declared LA.
Seriously.

[eyestott]

Mathdino has made 32 posts in other topics since he declared LA.
Seriously.

So, let me ask this way: we using the generic 'they're posting everywhere but here' tell (which is fine, I have no fucking problem with that),

or the whole 'Mathdino is the kind of the player that you usually can't shut up unless he's scum'?

Both. He doesnt have any completed scumgames (well, thats what he said a few weeks ago) but in all the games ive seen him as town in, he was generally active, and he is active in other games.
So, both.

[eyestott]

I'm here, but I dont really have anything additional to add. Welcome, randomidget!

[eyestott]

Zombehs is getting replaced.

mod, can you prod math?

yeah, no problem. He has declared LA for this game, so... it won't count as a strike.

[eyestott]

MTD might also be having a long holiday. From what I understand, some christmas/new year celebrations go on until the 4th-5th of January. I'm willing to look into this again at that date, assuming the situation hasn't changed.

Basically this. I thought I would have more time during the last couple days, apologies.

Now though:

V/LA through Jan 2

We need a prod on MTD. Hes about 100 hours late.

[eyestott]

I have missed too much to completely catch up, but I will comment on the lynch all lurkers discussion going on now.

I used to see it as a big scum tell, and as much as I disagree with it, it is a null tell at best. Those fighting back against those who want to lynch all lurkers are more likely to be scum.

Always a scum tactic of mine to defend lurkers. I will have to iso those who are doing this to see if there is something there.

I've been waiting all year for a second post from you.

Mod: can we get prods on Fud and MTD please? We should be getting replacements, but I understand theyre scarce.

[eyestott]

I have missed too much to completely catch up, but I will comment on the lynch all lurkers discussion going on now.

I used to see it as a big scum tell, and as much as I disagree with it, it is a null tell at best. Those fighting back against those who want to lynch all lurkers are more likely to be scum.

Always a scum tactic of mine to defend lurkers. I will have to iso those who are doing this to see if there is something there.

I've been waiting all year for a second post from you.

Mod: can we get prods on Fud and MTD please? We should be getting replacements, but I understand theyre scarce.

by second, I mean the ISOing lurker-defenders post.

[eyestott]

wait titus is here?

anyone up for day 1 poilcy lynch on titus? if titus is smart she shoudl sheep me

Why is Titus a good Policy Lynch?

[eyestott]

wait titus is here?

anyone up for day 1 poilcy lynch on titus? if titus is smart she shoudl sheep me

Why is Titus a good Policy Lynch?

titus is always good policy lynch. (we have a history together is the short version)

I want the informative version.
Why should I vote Titus on policy, over people I legitimately find scummy?

[eyestott]

I like playing with titus.

Also I see nothing wrong with a quick replace in post.

Also also om, saying zombies was demotivated as 3p doesn't make much sense. I can't see someone losing motivation from their first game on the site because of their role.

Unless they're in a neighbourhood

[eyestott]

@ika, can you stop with this policy lynch nonsense? I did flake on the one game we had as scum together. I was looking forward to it. I flaked all of my games due to irl. You also got pissed in games that were six months ago and frankly you get pissed if anyone does not understand or question you. Learning to communicate better is why I play but if we have opposing wincons(or I think we do) there will be conflict. So deal with it.

Ghostlin that is exactly why I placed the vote. I want interaction as it helps me read people.

Are you up to date?

[eyestott]

I could use another read through for details but yeah I am caught up mostly. I would like Pascher to put his Om case in one place and someone other than Om who is town reading him to make the town case.

I'll probably end up doing so.
Why the focus on Om?
What are your thoughts on the active players?

[eyestott]

Why do you think Om is not active? He is to me.

The Om focus is to generate conflict and force people to take sides and make reads easier. I could have focused on anyone but getting details from Pasch helps me read both.

Why do you not want to discuss Om? What is your read on him?

Sorry, the other active players.
I never said I didnt want to discuss Om.
I'm not sure on my Om read anymore.
Ill have another look at the case on him, then ill make a decision.

[eyestott]

Why do you think Om is not active? He is to me.

The Om focus is to generate conflict and force people to take sides and make reads easier. I could have focused on anyone but getting details from Pasch helps me read both.

Why do you not want to discuss Om? What is your read on him?

So fat,
mathdino is town
Flubbererer is town
Om is town
Ika is town
Eyestott aint
VOTE: eyestott

Sigh
Reasons?

[eyestott]

So fat,
mathdino is town
Flubbererer is town
Om is town
Ika is town
Eyestott aint
VOTE: eyestott

Why? I agree with most. (Uncertain on ika scumreading Om). Why not Om/Eye?

"Why not eye" what? Why not townread?

[eyestott]

I'm pretty confident that Om, eye, and Titus are town.

I'm interested. What makes you 99% sure I'm town? I mean, I'm not objecting, but why the almost certainty?

[eyestott]

Why do you think Om is not active? He is to me.

The Om focus is to generate conflict and force people to take sides and make reads easier. I could have focused on anyone but getting details from Pasch helps me read both.

Why do you not want to discuss Om? What is your read on him?

Sorry, the other active players.
I never said I didnt want to discuss Om.

I'm not sure on my Om read anymore.
Ill have another look at the case on him, then ill make a decision.

you are making me so much happier with random's vote
at the height of the argument you change your views without reason
now that the tables are beginning to turn so do you

I will explain this.
First though, can you tell me your scum reads, your town reads, and your null reads?
Reasoning is not needed.

[eyestott]

if you asked me to say whether I was town, null, or scumreading you at the moment, what do you think I would say?
With Fud and MTD, please just say town, scum, or null.

[eyestott]

What do you think of OMGUS?

[eyestott]

Also, what do you think Ghostlin's read of you is?
And could you clarify your read for Math? is it a null or a scum read? What makes him scummier than the other lurkers?
PS: Ive found out that this is not the only game he isnt posting in, and he has probable reason which i cannot say, as id be breaking the rules.
P.edit: XD
Are you saying you aren't a fan of it?

[eyestott]

Why do you think Om is not active? He is to me.

The Om focus is to generate conflict and force people to take sides and make reads easier. I could have focused on anyone but getting details from Pasch helps me read both.

Why do you not want to discuss Om? What is your read on him?

Sorry, the other active players.
I never said I didnt want to discuss Om.

I'm not sure on my Om read anymore.
Ill have another look at the case on him, then ill make a decision.

So, this was a reaction test. I saw something suspicious about Om, and wanted to test it out. Up until here, Om and I were townreading eachother, yeah?
I noticed that practically all of Om's reads were mirroring how people read him. So I decided to say this, and make it look like my Om townread was weakening, so I would see whether Om's read on me would change.

you are making me so much happier with random's vote

at the height of the argument you change your views without reason
now that the tables are beginning to turn so do you

So, Initially I was reading Om as town, yeah?
Hey! Om was townreading me!
But as soon as my read on Om looks a bit more nullish, Om's read on me becomes more nullish too!
"But eyestott! Surely its just you, right?"
Nope!
Check this out:

I see most of what you're saying as bad play over scum play. Except maybe the policy lynches

So, flubber is reading Om as town, yeah?
Hey! Om is townreading flubber!

I'm pretty confident that

Om

, eye, and Titus are town.

So, FourTrouble is reading Om as town, yeah?
Hey! Om is townreading FourTrouble!

Hey I forgot Om is in the game, a remember a newbie games eons ago where he rage quit and PMed me about a player in the game after he did so.

Oh the memories.

VOTE: om

While FuD is voting Om, this is an obvious RVS vote, so we have no idea how FuD is reading Om.
So, as far as we know, FuD is reading Om as null, yeah?
Hey! Om is nullreading FuD!

i said provide examples and you have failed to do so
as far as im concerned you are pulling things out of ur ass

You demanded examples of you not doing things. Do you realize that this is insane? Honestly, I don't care what you say. I have no interest in what you think of why I know that you're scum. I don't need your approval to show your alignment to everyone else. I don't know why anyone cares about your whining and yelling about it. Your "defense" has been little more than saying "nuh uh!"

So listen up everyone else, Om is going to lie in her defense. There is no doubt of that. If you, who might actually be town and legitimately interested in scumhunting, have questions about why I think she's scum, go ahead. I'd be happy to answer actual questions. But her questions aren't questions. They're stall tactics and attempts at deflection. We all saw her barreling ahead to get lynches in as fast as possible. She said NOTHING about holding off or not going ahead with these lynches until she was called out on it. The caution she claims to have had wasn't there. She isn't pushing lynches based on actual content. She is avoiding that at all costs. She's spent a week pushing what essentially amounts to policy lynches. Apparently, she townreads EVERYONE WHO IS POSTING (except me because I'm going after her). Seriously? That's complete bullshit. She's scum. She was trying to play it safe. And then she doubled down too hard on her scum tactics.

Question: do you feel that pushing for policy lynches is innately scummy? Please give me more than a 'yes' or 'no' to this question; I need to see the thought process.

I do agree you cannot arguably prove a negative, that's why they call it a fucking negative. Can you give a point of reference for the dumb kids in the back of the class (ie, me) that demonstrate the behaviors we're listing off?

I see most of what you're saying as bad play over scum play. Except maybe the policy lynches

Same question as to Pasch: do you see that as inherently scummy?

So, Ghostlin looks to be defending Om here, yeah?
So, as far as we know, Ghostlin is reading Om as town, yeah?
Hey! Om is Townreading Ghostlin!

What is your read on him?

seeing how eye is voting with ohm, probally a town read

So, ika is reading Om as town, yeah?
Hey! Om is townreading ika!

Mathdino hasnt mentioned Om.
So, as far as we know, Math is reading Om as null, yeah?
Hey! Om is mostly nullreading Math!

MTD hasnt mentioned Om.
So, as far as we know, MTD is reading Om as null, yeah?
Hey! Om is nullreading MTD!

i said provide examples and you have failed to do so
as far as im concerned you are pulling things out of ur ass

You demanded examples of you not doing things. Do you realize that this is insane? Honestly, I don't care what you say. I have no interest in what you think of why I know that you're scum. I don't need your approval to show your alignment to everyone else. I don't know why anyone cares about your whining and yelling about it. Your "defense" has been little more than saying "nuh uh!"

So listen up everyone else, Om is going to lie in her defense. There is no doubt of that. If you, who might actually be town and legitimately interested in scumhunting, have questions about why I think she's scum, go ahead. I'd be happy to answer actual questions. But her questions aren't questions. They're stall tactics and attempts at deflection. We all saw her barreling ahead to get lynches in as fast as possible. She said NOTHING about holding off or not going ahead with these lynches until she was called out on it. The caution she claims to have had wasn't there. She isn't pushing lynches based on actual content. She is avoiding that at all costs. She's spent a week pushing what essentially amounts to policy lynches. Apparently, she townreads EVERYONE WHO IS POSTING (except me because I'm going after her). Seriously? That's complete bullshit. She's scum. She was trying to play it safe. And then she doubled down too hard on her scum tactics.

So, Paschendale is reading Om as scum, yeah?
Hey! Om is (wanting to be, and has acted/is acting like he is) scumreading Paschendale!

So fat,
mathdino is town
Flubbererer is town
Om is town
Ika is town
Eyestott aint
VOTE: eyestott

So, random is reading Om as town, yeah?
Hey! Om is townreading random!

It's not a total sheep. Like I said, your posting on the last page felt off and it generates very helpful interactions.

So, Titus is reading Om as scum, yeah?
Hey! Om is scumreading Titus!

You say that you've got a fine read on om implying that he is trying to rush lynches through. Would you mind quoting a post or two of what you feel are the most overt examples and walk us through how you arrived at scum!om?

Furthermore, could you explain how removing a lurker from the game can in any way considered to be a loss? It removes a negative utility player from the game, something that scum will NEVER do intentionally. I would honestly say the situation since 359 hasn't changed much. How long are we going to run around in circles before eventually deciding to lynch the most prolific lurker, anyway? Not that I'm against argument, but this one does not seem like it will be productive any time soon. We've established that you disagree about what sort of things to do on day one and that you feel anyone using a d1 theory that you aren't is your top scumread because Fucking Moon Logic. I would even say that pasch/om is doing more to slow down the game than the recent holiday season did.

So, tn5421 is defending Om, and looks to be (but isnt explicitly) reading Om as town, yeah?
Hey! Om is likely-townreading tn5421!

People who have played with Om before: Is this something town Om does, something scum Om does, both, or neither?

omgus is a lame tell
i am not a fan of using it

Huh.
Care to comment, Om?

[eyestott]

explain the scumread on zombeh then?

zombehs was replaced by titus, who is voting you.

[eyestott]

also i have never been confident in my townread of u

Okay, but youve still been townreading me.

[eyestott]

I'm not saying this applies to the whole game.
I'm saying that RIGHT NOW, it does.
I'm not missrepping you. I didnt say youve done this all game.

[eyestott]

i dont like how you shift the onus of similar reads on to me when it could very well be the others
i have been solid with my reads throughout the game and have never not made them clear???

PEDIT:
you were super confident in ur read of me to the point of sheeping me and i was actively against the thought of you being town and sheeping so bad

What, so every single player is basing their read of you off of your current read of them?
Occam's Razor.
Quote somewhere where you werent townreading me, but I was townreading you.

[eyestott]

I think that if youre scum, this is possibly a self defence thing. I'm still townreading you, because I like how youve posted, but this is something I want to bring up.
P.edit: Where have I said that i'm scumreading you or nullreading you?

[eyestott]

Damnit Om, youve gotta slow down XD

[eyestott]

majority of the reason i called random town anyway was because he was trying to go down an avenue of pushing you over others

you are making a case to slander my name in the thread why the fuck would you do that if you dont think im scum

like
thats so fucking counterproductive

Slander implies that I'm lying. I'm bringing it up because we still have plenty of time, and I believe that town-you will adequately defend yourself. If youre town, itll show, and others will see it. Same goes for if youre scum.

if you are town and you are reading me as town you dont need to add to the firepower that is the growing call for my lynch from titus and pasch

But if youre town, your defence will ring true, and Ill be townreading you, and others may too.

i like to be called town
i favour people who call me town more and vice versa for scum
but acting like that is the sole reason im calling them town or scum
is a massive fucking misrep

Now youre misrepping me. I never said that your read on someone is just because of other's reads on you, but i'm saying that its a big factor, which youve just agreed with. You look to be too concerned with how people are reading you, and are factoring that into your play too much.

majority of the reason i called random town anyway was because he was trying to go down an avenue of pushing you over others

How is he trying to push me? He has placed a naked vote on me.

[eyestott]

1 i never said it was a big factor of my reads
2 it is a factor but it is overtaken by actual play of the person
3 this is not early game there is more to go off than just compliments and insults to sway me
4 i dont like to not be read as town
5 that is literally one of the things i hate having happen the most as town
6 literally in any game of mine if im being attacked i fucking go at it
7 idc if you even call it self meta its true as heck
8 i like to be thought of as obvious town no matter what
9 being right is only just behind in priority

1: You did say "i favour people who call me town more and vice versa for scum", and i inferred that it was a big factor, yeah, you never said it was a big one.
2: Okay, sure.
3: Well, yeah.
4: No one does.
5: Yeah, everyone does.
6: I've noticed, but I'm trying to see whether this is something alignment indicative.
7: Okiedokie
8: Even if it costs you the game? Do you see that that isnt exactly pro-town?
9: Wait wait wait, youd rather be townread than read town?

i like to feel like i am doing a good job at presenting myself
especially in games that arent larges because people are way more critical of my style outside of them
which is majorly shitty imo

I cant comment on that.

[eyestott]

Havent read up, Ive had a busy day. Going out to a dinner soon, and Ill be back in 5-ish hours. X post for most of my games.

[eyestott]

I thought Id get home earlier, but its now 11:30.
I will say this:
We need to not lynch Om.
He is the one at the forefront of pretty much all discussion. Lynching him, even if he's scum, would likely do more harm than good to the town, given the current state of the game (A bunch of missing players)

[eyestott]

Also, what do you think Ghostlin's read of you is?
And could you clarify your read for Math? is it a null or a scum read? What makes him scummier than the other lurkers?
PS: Ive found out that this is not the only game he isnt posting in, and he has probable reason which i cannot say, as id be breaking the rules.
P.edit: XD
Are you saying you aren't a fan of it?

You could ask Ghostlin what Ghostlin's read of Om is. Jesus...

Sadly, I'm leaning towards Om-Town. Scum usually would find a way to not engage and try to redirect, not shit up the thread for three pages.

I'm saying Om's drawing down too much of a target with her posting.

I didnt ask because I didnt know if you were on at the time.
Thats what Ive picked up, Om's anger looks genuine, and I'm pretty confident he's town.

I thought Id get home earlier, but its now 11:30.
I will say this:
We need to not lynch Om.
He is the one at the forefront of pretty much all discussion. Lynching him, even if he's scum, would likely do more harm than good to the town, given the current state of the game (A bunch of missing players)

Wrong. Lynch scum, then worry about game state. I am liking you less and less.

I'm not the only one saying that Om has fuelled the discussion. If Om is town, lynching him would probably be the worst thing we could do, worse than the mislynch of other towns that arent fuelling discussion as much.

I thought Id get home earlier, but its now 11:30.
I will say this:
We need to not lynch Om.
He is the one at the forefront of pretty much all discussion. Lynching him, even if he's scum, would likely do more harm than good to the town, given the current state of the game (A bunch of missing players)

So who do you propose we lynch instead?

That's two people now who are just poo pooing the existing ideas without adding any of their own.

Hell, I dunno. I'm dont like the early interactions between ika and Titus. If one were scum, they could easily fuel the fight, and put the other off. Just a theory.
What, not agreeing with you is "poo pooing the existing ideas"? I'm only disagreeing with one thing, but I find it interesting how youre trying to spin it as me being contrary to everything.

I am not saying it's a scum tell. I have tunneled all the time and been wrong Ghostlin. The behavior is abnormal from Pasch though. I am looking at odd behavior and I am wanting to know why. I am seeing eye and Om be far too close to each other for comfort. It makes me wonder if Eye/Om team, or if one is dumb town. I doubt both are town.

Eye does not like the focus on Om.
I start expressing suspicion on eye.
Om votes me.

Something is unhealthy there.

@Om, your yelling is getting in the way.

Where did i say i dont like the focus on Om? On the contrary, I questioned him, which would hardly be something I would do if i was trying to shift focus to something else. How are Om and eye "too close for comfort"? Our reads on eachother have been constantly changing. I could just as easily just say "I am seeing Titus and Pasch be far too close for comfort", for example. And even if we are indeed close, We are in a hydra together. Why would 2 players being close indicate stupidity in one and scumminess in the other/both?
Your case on an Om/eye scumteam makes absolutely no sense. I dont want a Math lynch anymore. I'd actually be fine with your lynch though. I will however, wait for you to respond to this before I vote you.

[eyestott]

I forgot: UNVOTE: Mathdino

[eyestott]

i dont understand the town motivation behind titus' actions like she came in the game and made a controversial decision to spark discussion yea ok i can see that being fine what i dont understand is that she has not tried to spark discussion on anyone else when she claims interactions are what she needs to read people. she's made zero effort to actually interact with anyone on literally anything else while at the same time calling everyone out for not interacting with pasch outside of the situation between him and i. she has said she has caught up and she still has no read on anyone in the entire game, when she managed to form a read on me without interacting directly with me and now she claims she cant. when called out on this its just a "ï will answer this when i am settled" like what the heck you are just withholding reads for no good reason at this point.

and eye for hecks sake you say ur gonna vote her after she responds just vote her now put ur fucking money where your mouth is if you dont think i am scum and you dont want to lynch mathdino your vote is literally better on anyone else right now putting down a tentative unvote is stupid if you haven't expressed a desire to lynch anyone else but titus right now

Also:

I could use another read through for details but yeah I am caught up mostly. I would like Pascher to put his Om case in one place and someone other than Om who is town reading him to make the town case.

I'll probably end up doing so.
Why the focus on Om?
What are your thoughts on the active players?

Why do you think Om is not active? He is to me.

The Om focus is to generate conflict and force people to take sides and make reads easier. I could have focused on anyone but getting details from Pasch helps me read both.

Why do you not want to discuss Om? What is your read on him?

This is bad. I ask her for her reads on the active players, and instead of doing so, deflects it back at me by saying that Om is active. Even once I clarify what shouldnt have needed clarification, she doesnt answer.
VOTE: Titus

[eyestott]

Can we please get a FuD replace too, please? He hasn't posted ALL YEAR, in anything.

[eyestott]

No.

[eyestott]

Titus, would you please respond to 760 (well, the parts that apply to you)?
Thanks!

[eyestott]

I could possibly get behind ika. I'd be much more willing for an ika lynch than an om lynch.
Also, ika has hardly done anything about the setup.
Normally he's bouncing ideas off of others, but he's much more quiet about it. Maybe he already knows all he needs to know.

[eyestott]

Wait, what? Why? Is this to prevent an Om lynch?

[eyestott]

MTD is back, though.

[eyestott]

VOTE: ika
Either a self vote from mafia to try and look town, or a self vote telling us that even if we mislynch him, his role is not powerful enough to be extremely detrimental.

[eyestott]

New iPad has autocorrect.

Why can't we lynch Om or Eye?

Ika, town play like jester. Lesson 1 I learned at sc2mafia.

b/c they are town

now vote me

Why the hell do you want me to vote you? I would rather no lynch than lynch someone who is town and gives zero info.

Why do you think it gives no info?

[eyestott]

Well, his flip gives infromation, I guess.
It's just how inactive a large amount of the players have been. I can't really see any good lynches. I know you can, but I cannot.
Which reminds me. Are all of your reasons for scumreading depending on me being a buddy of Om?
If not, could you quote your other reasons or give them?
If yes, if om flips town, what will happen to your reads?

[eyestott]

VOTE: ika
Either a self vote from mafia to try and look town, or a self vote telling us that even if we mislynch him, his role is not powerful enough to be extremely detrimental.

this is a scum vote and if literally nobody is going to lynch titus ill get on this wagon

What's scummy about it? Is it true?
If you disagree, why is that scummy of me to come to that conclusion?

[eyestott]

whats scummy about it is that you made it

So it's scummy because I'm scum?
So it hasn't changed how you view me?

[eyestott]

@Eyestott, how hard you defended Om just registered funny. your posts do not ring true.

@Om, you really think eye and I are buddies?

Okay, but if all of your points rely on me being on om's team, you only see me as scum if om is, correct?
P.edit: Om, I know how you feel. It's extremely frustrating.

[eyestott]

Wanting the day to end is one of the big reasons I jumped on ika, to be honest. None of the cases in this game are good enough that I would vote them in another game, but I feel that a no lynch today would just add to the apathy, and be bad for day two, and the rest of the game.

[eyestott]

@Eyestott, how hard you defended Om just registered funny. your posts do not ring true.

@Om, you really think eye and I are buddies?

Okay, but if all of your points rely on me being on om's team, you only see me as scum if om is, correct?
P.edit: Om, I know how you feel. It's extremely frustrating.

I just said they did not. That your buddies or white knighting.

So you're voting me, just for my interactions with one player.
Huh.
Since when is that NOT a bad vote?
@Om, so you actually WANT me to sheep you?

[eyestott]

@Eyestott, how hard you defended Om just registered funny. your posts do not ring true.

@Om, you really think eye and I are buddies?

Okay, but if all of your points rely on me being on om's team, you only see me as scum if om is, correct?
P.edit: Om, I know how you feel. It's extremely frustrating.

I just said they did not. That your buddies or white knighting.

So you're voting me, just for my interactions with one player.
Huh.
Since when is that NOT a bad vote?
@Om, so you actually WANT me to sheep you?

hey wow titus did the same with the vote on me maybe you should criticize her on that too and mayb you will finally see the light that i am beaming when i am super duper correct on this titus read

I legitimately can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
Do you or do you not want me to vote Titus? It's not exactly sheeping as I've given additional reasons, but still.

[eyestott]

You see that deadline. I cannot quote every awkward stilted or bad post before it.

We have 6 days.

[eyestott]

VOTE: Titus

[eyestott]

Hey, om. If I'm agreeing you, I MUST be white nighting you!
Because according to Titus, I can't agree with someone as its white nightingale if they're town and buddying if they're scum!

[eyestott]

You've given Literally next to no reasons.

[eyestott]

Hey, om. If I'm agreeing you, I MUST be white nighting you!
Because according to Titus, I can't agree with someone as its white nightingale if they're town and buddying if they're scum!

It's this right here that's the issue. The desperation of having no one suspect you is problematic.

Your speech is awkward and over the top. There's no hunting. No questions. No thought. Solely defending with a bit of OMGUS attack.

You've given Literally next to no reasons.

Make an ika case or self vote. With deadline looming those are the only options. I will not be voting Om again.

We literally have like 100 hours. Deadline is NOT looming, and those are not the only options.

[eyestott]

Hey, om. If I'm agreeing you, I MUST be white nighting you!
Because according to Titus, I can't agree with someone as its white nightingale if they're town and buddying if they're scum!

It's this right here that's the issue. The desperation of having no one suspect you is problematic.

Your speech is awkward and over the top. There's no hunting. No questions. No thought. Solely defending with a bit of OMGUS attack.

WOWOWOWOW. ISO me, please.
Awkward, yes. So what if i'm awkward?
But no hunting? No questions? NO THOUGHT? WOW.

[eyestott]

I feel eye as probable scum right now from reading through and I think it's definitely the most reasonable wagon at this point.
VOTE: eye

I have no idea how much votes he has at this point but I don't think it's L-1.

What? What reasons do you have? Why is my lynch more reasonable than any other lynch?

[eyestott]

Ill give better reasons for Titus lynch once I'm up to date in all my games.

[eyestott]

Why do you think this?

Reason that stuck in mind were the recent votechanges that seemed really weird (first going on ika which seemed like going for the easy mislynch, then switching to titus which seems like a wagon that isn't going to happen anyway plus it was for meagre reasons) and what Titus said: The posting seems forced and a bit too eager to look good for my liking.

I am not that definitive about this but the other wagons likely to happen are much worse IMO.

Where have I been forced, and since when was eagerness bad? Why is switching to a wagon that "isnt going to happen" scummy?

[eyestott]

I could possibly get behind ika. I'd be much more willing for an ika lynch than an om lynch.
Also, ika has hardly done anything about the setup.
Normally he's bouncing ideas off of others, but he's much more quiet about it. Maybe he already knows all he needs to know.

Context for this reasoning? Yes, ika's self vote that happens after this looks like garbage, but at this point I'm willing to even fucking ignore it as a tell because THIS GAME.

In all of the games ive been in with ika, he setup specs a lot.

[eyestott]

Why do you think this?

Reason that stuck in mind were the recent votechanges that seemed really weird (first going on ika which seemed like going for the easy mislynch, then switching to titus which seems like a wagon that isn't going to happen anyway plus it was for meagre reasons) and what Titus said: The posting seems forced and a bit too eager to look good for my liking.

I am not that definitive about this but the other wagons likely to happen are much worse IMO.

this, but scrap the ika part.

Wait, so now youre only voting me because I voted Titus, and i look forced and eager?

[eyestott]

Why do you think this?

Reason that stuck in mind were the recent votechanges that seemed really weird (first going on ika which seemed like going for the easy mislynch, then switching to titus which seems like a wagon that isn't going to happen anyway plus it was for meagre reasons) and what Titus said: The posting seems forced and a bit too eager to look good for my liking.

I am not that definitive about this but the other wagons likely to happen are much worse IMO.

this, but scrap the ika part.

Uh yeah, I might be ok with lynching Pasch as well.

Even though all of the other wagons likely to happen are much worse? If you think Pasch is a possible Lynch, then youre considering something that is apparently much worse than my lynch.

[eyestott]

I'll be reading up now.

[eyestott]

so, ive got all the quotes I want for the titus case, just gotta add in my parts.
Coming soon, though If people dont find the case good enough, I'll consolidate.

[eyestott]

So fat,
mathdino is town
Flubbererer is town
Om is town
Ika is town
Eyestott aint
VOTE: eyestott

Why? I agree with most. (Uncertain on ika scumreading Om). Why not Om/Eye?

So, this is the first time Titus mentions me. Straight away, pairing me with Om. Now this post is strange, because she says "why not ...eye?" even though midget is voting me. Additionally, she is voting Om at this point, but she says that she agrees with most of midgets reads, and proceeds to specify the read she doesnt agree with. So, this implies that she agrees that Om is town. Yet she says "Why not Om/Eye?" Both of these ideas dont really make much sense, given what she is saying and what she has quoted.

I thought Id get home earlier, but its now 11:30.
I will say this:
We need to not lynch Om.
He is the one at the forefront of pretty much all discussion. Lynching him, even if he's scum, would likely do more harm than good to the town, given the current state of the game (A bunch of missing players)

Wrong. Lynch scum, then worry about game state. I am liking you less and less.

I say that lynching Om would be a bad idea. I say that, even on the slight chance that Om is scum, lynching him wouldnt be as good as lynching (I should have said) another scum. This is because most of the discussion has been fueled by Om, and if Om werent in this game, we would likely be in a worse state.
Titus says that my opinion is wrong, then gives a pretty simplistic view. Now, its sort of understandable that Titus hasnt yet realised that this game is different to others in that we've been running at half a crew for a large part of the game, and that without hyper-active (not an insult, I literally mean "very active") players like Om and myself to essentially make up for inactive players, the game will likely become even less active. Now, It could just be that Town Titus doesnt yet realise how much more time Om has put into the game than everyone else, or it could be that ScumTitus is trying to get rid of the most active players in the game.
Oh wait.
Om and myself are the most active.
Huh.

I am not saying it's a scum tell. I have tunneled all the time and been wrong Ghostlin. The behavior is abnormal from Pasch though. I am looking at odd behavior and I am wanting to know why. I am seeing eye and Om be far too close to each other for comfort. It makes me wonder if Eye/Om team, or if one is dumb town. I doubt both are town.

Eye does not like the focus on Om.
I start expressing suspicion on eye.
Om votes me.

Something is unhealthy there.

@Om, your yelling is getting in the way.

This is just silly.
I never said that I didnt like the focus on Om, I simply asked Titus why she was focusing on Om.
While the next two points are both true, theyre completely unconnected. I mean, Its like me saying "Hey! Every time Titus was scum, she was a girl! She's still a girl, so she must be scum!"
The initial points are true, but are not correlated.
Correlation does not imply causation, and if Titus had actually looked at why Om voted her:

VOTE: Titus
you are still being extremely useless and basing reads off of other people's reads so you should fucking die by now
you have done nothing to help the way I've seen your slot in the past

She would see that I was nothing to do with it.

I am not saying it's a scum tell. I have tunneled all the time and been wrong Ghostlin. The behavior is abnormal from Pasch though. I am looking at odd behavior and I am wanting to know why. I am seeing eye and Om be far too close to each other for comfort.

It makes me wonder if Eye/Om team,

or if one is dumb town. I doubt both are town.

Eye does not like the focus on Om.
I start expressing suspicion on eye.
Om votes me.

Something is unhealthy there.

@Om, your yelling is getting in the way.

Where did i say i dont like the focus on Om? On the contrary, I questioned him, which would hardly be something I would do if i was trying to shift focus to something else. How are Om and eye "too close for comfort"? Our reads on eachother have been constantly changing. I could just as easily just say "I am seeing Titus and Pasch be far too close for comfort", for example. And even if we are indeed close, We are in a hydra together. Why would 2 players being close indicate stupidity in one and scumminess in the other/both?
Your case on an Om/eye scumteam makes absolutely no sense. I dont want a Math lynch anymore. I'd actually be fine with your lynch though. I will however, wait for you to respond to this before I vote you.

You have been soft defending Om the entire time. The close I am talking is hydra irrelevant. I have hydrated with ika but that doesn't mean I autotownread him.

I doubt you both as buddies would stay so close together. It is possible but unlikely.

You both have been defending each other and rapidly escalating the chainsaw here.

You are also telegraphing. Gee, I am going to let you respond but I am voting you anyway. Well go ahead.

Okay, so, since when was defending a townread scummy? If I wanted to defend someone as scum, it would likely be someone who townread me back, not someone who's read on me keeps shifting.
So, before, Titus said that she is considering an Om/eye team because of how close we are. In this post, she says that she doubts an Om/eye team, because of how close we are.
Huh.
She then says we have been defending eachother. I just went through Om's ISO, and searched for "eye". Om has never had me above a nulltown read, and, as far as I know, is currently leaning scum on me. He has also said he would vote me, so dont say that he has defended me.
Titus accuses me of Telegraphing. What I was doing is saying "Hey Titus. I have some points that I think would be enough for me to vote you, could you respond to them so I can either understand and not vote, or disagree/find your answers scummy and vote you?"

New iPad has autocorrect.

Why can't we lynch Om or Eye?

Ika, town play like jester. Lesson 1 I learned at sc2mafia.

So, Titus continues to only mention me in conjunction with Om. Literally all of her points against me have been in relation to me townreading Om.

@Eyestott, how hard you defended Om just

registered funny.

your posts do not ring true.

@Om, you really think eye and I are buddies?

Okay, but if all of your points rely on me being on om's team, you only see me as scum if om is, correct?
P.edit: Om, I know how you feel. It's extremely frustrating.

I just said they did not. That your buddies or white knighting.

So, Titus confirms that all of her points against me are to do with how I'm townreading Om.
Titus also shows here that she is determined to read me as scum, no matter what Om is.
She implies that no one can have strong town reads on people, otherwise they are scum. And she uses cliches, and points that are just opinion(bolded), but doesnt back them up or show what she is talking about.

Titus

, are these valid points against you: "How hard you defended Pasch just registered funny. Your posts do not ring true."?

i dont even care about who makes sense as buddies anymore i just want this day to fucking end i hate how everyone is buying into the buddy suspicions of a guy who has literally been trying to tie himself to me every single chance he gets since the original Zombeh wagon im fucking tired of the fact that i am literally pouring out every single feeling of mine into all these posts and you guys are fucking believing the bullshit tunnels laid forth by pasch im fuckin tired of the fact that titus over here is being blatantly useless and hypocritical and everyone in this game is too fucking apathetic (which by the way was not helped in the slightest by the actions of Titus) to actually notice the fact that people other than myself, pasch and eye actually may have a chance at being scum and i swear to god i am just so fucking angry at town for being useless fucks i am angry at the fact that half the playerlist had to be replaced already this game makes me so fucking mad i swear to god

Shit this is town.

VOTE: Eye

So, now Titus agrees with me that Om is town, then immediately proceeds to vote me. If she actually thought we were both defending eachother, once she was confident one of use were town, why would that make her vote the other? I mean, I'm allowed to defend a townread.

Hey, om. If I'm agreeing you, I MUST be white nighting you!
Because according to Titus, I can't agree with someone as its white nightingale if they're town and buddying if they're scum!

It's this right here that's the issue. The desperation of having no one suspect you is problematic.

Your speech is awkward and over the top. There's no hunting. No questions. No thought. Solely defending with a bit of OMGUS attack.

Okay, so this is just wrong.
Where have I said I hate having people suspect me? My post you quoted was me using a less extreme form of reductio ad absurdum to show how feeble your point was.
Again, you accuse me using an opinion, then failing to back said opinion up with actual evidence. Additionally being awkward/over the top is not scum-indicative.
People already know how much hunting, questioning, and thought ive put into the game, though, so I dont need to say whats wrong with that sentence.

You've given Literally next to no reasons.

Make an ika case or self vote. With deadline looming those are the only options. I will not be voting Om again.

Now, Ill come back to the deadline thing later.
But Titus seems to think that the only possible lynches at this time were ika and myself.
Even though this was the VC at the time of her post:

Om of the Nom (1) ~ FuDuzn
tn5421 (0) ~
MTD (0) ~
ika (3) ~ ika, Paschendale, tn5421,
Ghostlin (1) ~ Flubbernugget,
randomidget (1) ~ , Mathdino,
Mathdino (1) ~ , Ghostlin
Flubbernugget (0) ~
FourTrouble (0) ~
FuDuzn (1) ~ , FourTrouble
Paschendale (0) ~
eyestott (2) ~ randomidget, titus,
titus (2) ~ Om of the Nom, eyestott
Not voting: MTD
So, many players had votes on them and my lynch was equally as viable as Titus'.
Also, Titus responded to my question but did not even answer it at all.

@Pasch, people can town tell. Right now, the choices are ika and eye. That rage wall is a towntell. I have done it myself. A lot. It cannot be faked.

More obsession that ika and I are the only choices.

Let's vote Eye. Pasch is a counterwagon to obvscum Eye.

Obvscum means that the person has been so scummy that almost everyone is scumreading them. That is not the case.

You see that deadline. I cannot quote every awkward stilted or bad post before it.

You see that deadline. I cannot quote every awkward stilted or bad post before it.

We have 6 days.

But Titus doesnt see it.

Make an ika case or self vote. With deadline looming those are the only options.

Right now, the choices are ika and eye.

@Pasch, people can town tell. Right now, the choices are ika and eye. That rage wall is a towntell. I have done it myself. A lot. It cannot be faked.

I have faked it. I have seen others fake it. And no, the choices are not Ika and Eye. We have many more choices. Don't artificially limit our options. And don't lie about fake absolute towntells.

You've given Literally next to no reasons.

Make an ika case or self vote. With deadline looming those are the only options. I will not be voting Om again.

Deadline is still a fucking week away. Is there a reason why you're presenting this as a binary decision?

So, thats 3 people who have told titus this.

What the fuck? I thought deadline was yesterday.

Sigh. I dont believe for one second that Titus missed all the discussion at the start about this, the EOD on every votecount, my post, Pasch's post, and Ghostlins post, and still thought that the day was 2 weeks long, even though literally no one else was commenting on a looming deadline. What's much more viable is that Titus was trying to get a quicklynch, or hasnt read what happened before she replaced in, or was trying to possibly fake a towntell.
Well, thats my case.

Spoiler: something unrelated that isnt necessarily informative

The three people voting me are all people who either replaced in, or werent here for the majority of the game. I'm not sure if theres a correlation, though.

[eyestott]

Given the VC, I'll probably consolidate.
MTD, I'll respond when I'm not on my iPad.
Some of your points are true, some are misunderstandings, and some are wrong.
P.edit: wrong game. Do we have similar play styles or something?

[eyestott]

I mean, outside of what we discussed in GTKAS.

[eyestott]

Former accounts: istott, and skitzo (skitzo was 2009, when I was 12. Shudder)

[eyestott]

So, you're asking mathdino, the guy who is being replaced?

[eyestott]

I'm confused. Who was the question directed at?

[eyestott]

Oh, okay. You thought math blade was in this game.
I understand now.

[eyestott]

What do you think of my case? In fact, what do you think of me?

[eyestott]

Oh, I think i get why you asked the question about me being your alt.
Is it the awkwardness/over the topness being a scummy thing to do?

[eyestott]

Titus' case on me is almost solely bout me defending Om.
Multiple times, Titus claimed to think the deadline was 2 weeks, even though people's responses, the tone of the game, and all the VCs said otherwise.
Titus claims I am awkward, over the top, that my posts don't ring true, that Something I did was funny (in a wierd way), that Om/eye have been defending eachother, that I've had no scumhunting, discussion, or thought, and that I've been in pure defense, with a bit of OMGUS.

[eyestott]

I000 please.

[eyestott]

What do you think of my case? In fact, what do you think of me?

You don't want me to ISO you, because from a cursory glance I'd votepark you on 18 alone.

Why? That's a null tell from me.

[eyestott]

Oh what the hey, why not...

VOTE: eyestott

If I were making the posts you've been making, I'd be totes scum.

Eh, ok.
I mean, I can be like "Nooo don't vote me I'm town" but that won't accomplish anything.

[eyestott]

Titus' case on me is almost solely bout me defending Om.
Multiple times, Titus claimed to think the deadline was 2 weeks, even though people's responses, the tone of the game, and all the VCs said otherwise.
Titus claims I am awkward, over the top, that my posts don't ring true, that Something I did was funny (in a wierd way), that Om/eye have been defending eachother, that I've had no scumhunting, discussion, or thought, and that I've been in pure defense, with a bit of OMGUS.

How does any of this make Titus scum?

Wait, is none of this alignment indicative?
Anyways, who should I consolidate to?
Also, now the four newcomers (well, MTD effectively replaced himself) are voting me.
P.edit: no, it's not, as I accept that were different players, and do different things as town and scum.
For all I know, my town game is your scum game, and vice versa.

[eyestott]

Okay, Its 3 am. I'm not in a good enough state to talk anymore, as I'm about to fall asleep.
Night night.

[eyestott]

Actually, I'll stay up unless no one wants to talk.

[eyestott]

If no one agrees with my case, I'm probably wrong.
Who should I consolidate to?

[eyestott]

You know what would be hilarious?

I think it would be hilarious if eyestott was the arsonist and there was no fireman in this setup at all.

I reckon eye is SK.

Why the hell would I claim a role like this? In fact, why would I have a role like this?

[eyestott]

Yes, I'm just lacking motivation right now across all my games, and you know why.

[eyestott]

Om of the Nom (0) ~
tn5421 (0) ~
MTD (0) ~
ika (1) ~ Paschendale
Ghostlin (0) ~
randomidget (2) ~ Ghostlin, Mathdino
Mathdino (0) ~
Flubbernugget (1) ~ tn5421
FourTrouble (0) ~
House (0) ~
Paschendale (4) ~ Flubbernugget, FourTrouble, ika, Om of the Nom (L-3)
eyestott (4) ~ House, MTD, randomidget, Titus (L-3)
titus (1) ~ eyestott



I think its interesting that of the four votes on me, theyre mostly unexplained scumreads.




MTD:

Why do you think this?

Reason that stuck in mind were the recent votechanges that seemed really weird

(first going on ika which seemed like going for the easy mislynch

, then switching to titus which seems like a wagon that isn't going to happen anyway plus it was for meagre reasons) and what Titus said: The posting seems forced and a bit too eager to look good for my liking.

I am not that definitive about this but the other wagons likely to happen are much worse IMO.

Adding in MTD's dislike of my Titus case, which ill get to, this is why MTD is voting me.
Only for recent play.
So, reasons:
1: Switching to Titus when It wasn't going to happen, with bad reasons. :1

Well, to be fair, do you actually think my lynch is likely to happen? I mean, apart from Om, I dont think anyone not voting me already is scumreading me.
What was bad about my reasons? You point this out, but you didnt actually provide an example, which makes it hard to follow.

2:What Titus said: The posting seems forced and a bit too eager to look good for my liking. :2
Again, you need to provide examples. Its not hard. Where have I been forced, and what have I been a bit too eager to do? I mean, other people have been like "This lynch needs to happen" or "This needs to die", and thats eager, but I havent done that, and you havent brought up eagerness as a scumtell in anyone else. Maybe my desire to keep discussion flowing could be misconstrued as overeagerness, but I don't know, until you provide examples.

House:

What do you think of my case? In fact, what do you think of me?

You don't want me to ISO you, because from a cursory glance I'd votepark you on 18 alone.

Oh what the hey, why not...

VOTE: eyestott

If I were making the posts you've been making, I'd be totes scum.

Oh what the hey, why not...

VOTE: eyestott

If I were making the posts you've been making, I'd be totes scum.

Eh, ok.
I mean, I can be like "Nooo don't vote me I'm town" but that won't accomplish anything.

I would have unvoted you if you had. I'm funny like that.

Missed your shot now, though.

Interesting that you don't ask me why your posts would be so scummy if I were the one making them. It's telling how you simply accepted my logic without question.

House's reasons:
1: Post 18 alone is worthy of a votepark. :1
Why? What is scummy about preferring not to vote non scum reads? When was not participating in RVS a scumtell?

2: If you had said what I had said, you would be scum. :2
Okay, maybe you would. But you dont have any finished games with me either. You dont know how I play as town or as scum.

3: I accepted your logic without question. :3
Firstly, when you voted me, it was 2:49 am. I was tired, and not in my right mind.
Second, why would I question it? I mean, I havent played much with you either. I dont know how similar our play is.

I'm not really sure why midget is scumreading me, and I've already addressed Titus'.
I need a break from mafia (Not like, flake break, but just for a short time.).

[eyestott]

I actually do that in other games, both as town and as scum. I can show you, if you want.

Dude, it was 3 am. Do you really think I'm going to be running at full power

(FYI, I have Aspergers and ADHD. My medication for my ADHD starts to wear off at 7pm, and my reasoning skills just keep going down, especially with fatigue.)

? In fact, To be honest,
"Why would my posts be so scummy if you were the one making them?" Is actually a stupid question. I mean, why should your style affect my alignment?

[eyestott]

I will consolidate to VOTE: Paschendale (L-2)
We can't afford to no lynch, given how inactive the game is getting.