Open 588 Pick Your Poison -- Game Over

[VictorDeAngelo]

OMGUS

VOTE: Riabi

[VictorDeAngelo]

There is to be NO mind control of any sort in this game, Sith or otherwise.

Ah.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Sounds like a plan.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Acryon

[VictorDeAngelo]

UNVOTE:

Okay someone who is not Drezi, Victor, or croboss give me a good town reason to build a half lynch wagon on the first page.

I can see how scum can benefit from such actions but hard to find a reason for me join in.

Why not ask House this?
Also the bolded reads a lot like "look at me, I'm not doing something scummy ". (Edit: I think Drezi saw the same thing)

Hi!

Vote: RachMarie

ICs are always scum. Sheep me now please. GGWP.

Uh, what do you mean by IC here?

You're jumping on the easy read.

Easy reads are often wrong reads.

Yes, but, early on in the game, when we don't have a lot to go on, shouldn't people be pressuring the easy reads to what comes of them?

I don't like this post, I really don't like this post. Someone who has played as many games as you have House should know this, so why try to dissuade Drezi here?

VOTE: House

I don't get this. Why do you think any of that makes House scum?

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Riabi

- What's your current read on Defisaro?
What's your current read on Drezi?

[VictorDeAngelo]

First, let's drop all the setup specualtion talk. Thank you.

Down to busy, I'm liking Riabi better after 65, though I still don't his thinking around House's posting. There's only really two reasons I can scum!House trying to change a read this way;

1) If Drezi his buddy and he's trying to defend him.
2) If Drezi is his buddy and he's trying to warn him off going after Death (possibly because he peceives Death as low hanging fruit).

If I had to pick one I would say 1) is liklier,

but I'm not actually getting a scum!House feel here anyway, so... meh.

(edit: Nope, literally just to read one page more page to find a scummy post)

In other news, I don't like 83. A town scum list is redundant and this seems to just be an excuse to justify a scumread on me. Because forming reads and asking questions is apparently scummy.

You know what Cyanide, let's dance:

VOTE: Sir Cyanide

I don't like House's vote in VOTE: 93. Ton's of people have been speculating and I don't see why Lal should be singled out.

[VictorDeAngelo]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Sir Cyanie

The last bit is obviously meant to be:

I don't like House's vote in 93. Ton's of people have been speculating and I don't see why Lal should be singled out.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Cynanide

- With regards to 98, listing things I've done this game isn't really scumhunting, if that's what you were trying to pretend you were doing. And you're playing dumb if you're really trying to make out that the vote is solely because you made a t/s list. As far as 99 goes, you can try rewriting my posts or misrep me as much as you want, I doubt people are going to be fooled by it.

I don't like House's vote in 93. Ton's of people have been speculating and I don't see why Lal should be singled out.

That's such a troll vote

Are you saying my vote is trollish or House's vote is?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Sir Cyanie

The last bit is obviously meant to be:

I don't like House's vote in 93. Ton's of people have been speculating and I don't see why Lal should be singled out.

Scumread me for it all you want. I have good reason for that vote and I'm sticking to it.

But why vote Lal over the other players the setup? Where did you get Lal knows there's an IC from exactly?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Lal's vote in 90 is bad, IMO. Her entire post is just one WIFOM argument after another.

Victor's vote in 96 feels OMGUS to me. I would have liked to see victor actually respond to Cynide's accusation rather than just vote him back.

Your dislike for votes on Sir Cynanide is noted.

Also what accusations should I be responding to exactly; his accusation that I formed a weak read on a player (well I did that), that I asked questions (did that as well)... the only thing to respond is the fact that none of the play SC called me out for is actually scummy behaviour. And frankly the only response he deserves is a vote in my book.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I'm trying to read through all the stuff that happened and all I keep seeing is IC this, IC that...and I haven't even got to page 6.

So here's my theory, there is no IC, and this whole chat is scum engineered to distract us from actual scumhunting. So let's stop it.

I won't be reading from work, but when I get home I hope to see a load of non IC chat (even if it's just small talk).

[VictorDeAngelo]

Yeah, I'm probably long overdue a prod... reading up.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Victor
93 is not House's post... You meant 92?

Yeah, let's just consider the post one giant derpfest.

If you can work out what I meant, then the point is still valid though.

I agree with House; this is a hairy post. It sends my hair on end.

Can be more specific about what you didn't like here?

Isn't it early to do this?

I appreciate the townread

, really, but this is a lot of effort for a first read. I look forward to your periodic reads.

Vote: Sir Cyanide

You scumread him, but you appreciate that he is townreading you? What? Why do you care about something, that a scum said about you. You think he is scum, so according to you, he can fake everything.

What did you think about the rest of the tone of Pisskop's post towards SC?

In other news, I don't like 83. A town scum list is redundant and this seems to just be an excuse to justify a scumread on me.

Why is that redundant? I don't get it.

It is redundant because it is too early in the game to form any sort of reasonable reads, as is demonstrated by the number of null - not enough posts style comments.

After seeing how SC is trying to get us to strategise over the IC correct strategy, I feel even more confident this is all just a scum ploy to get us to waste time. I mean seriously, in 114 he is actually debating whether an IC should claim if they reach L-1. Maybe they should claim but not confirm because scum will get confused.

House is either scum or dumber than when we last played because he thinks it's a good idea.

I literally at the point where I was yesterday, where I have stopped wanted to read this game. If that was the plan, then good job.

Townpoints for Pisskop for speaking sense and actually asking useful questions (149).

Okay if people are so experienced and good at this game, tell me why IC getting confirmed D1 and eating NK is bad. If Tracker/JK/Cop eats NK, the information they could have gotten is lost. And look at 135 for how much more likely scum will be able to shoot PR than PR night action landing. I don't know why you'd risk trading 1~2 conf town + 1 conf scum with 1 conf town. I posted this idea more than once and you keep avoiding it.
You're being overly obsessed with IC when there's no reason to. I'm sorry if there's IC in this game that I find IC the most disposable PR out of all 5.

pedit: You list people for not contributing, but your existence hasn't benefited me at all at finding scum besides making yourself look bad.

Wow, rolefishing like a champ, depi!

Nothing here is actually rolefishing, just speculating like a ton of people are doing. But House seems to want on the Deathfisaro wagon.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: House

I actually kinda like Count Dooku's attitude for town. I don't a lot of what's he's saying but he reminds me of Count Dooku from the last game I briefly played with him.

I kinda like Acryon's post on page 8 as well. I hope he's town this game.

I'm bored now, and it's late. Next time I'm on someone remind me to read pages 9-???. Night.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I have had the appropiate three glasses of red wine, I will now answer all questions.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Nothing here is actually rolefishing, just speculating like a ton of people are doing. But House seems to want on the Deathfisaro wagon.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: House

This is a shitty reason to jump on a wagon.

Disagreeing with someone doesn't make the other person scum. Does kinda make you look scummy for the reach, though.

It's not the only reason I'm voting you. I'm one good reason to vote you though. Scum are likely to take a post with no rolefishing, claim it was rolefishing and then try and get a wagon going off it. Town... not so much.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Much more recently, post 232 really bothers me comments like "I'm bored now" don't sit well with me. This game is supposed to be fun, if you're bored, why not replace out? Same thing goes with actually reading the game (and this applies to croboss as well), why bother playing if you aren't going to well... actually play?

Apologies for not being entertained by your dull antics. Further apologies for having the audiacity of being about it.

My vote stays where it is right now, because I've not seen anything I found necessarily town from House. That said, House does make a good point in 233. FOS on Victor because I agree with House.

So you have seen nothing good from House, but he does make good points. Mainly points about people who agree with you about House being scum. Do think about your posts before you write then, or just throw any old thoughts down and hope they don't contradict themselves?

[VictorDeAngelo]

How about you either play the game and stop whining like a little bitch or replace out? Nobody's forcing you to play this game.

How about you..... you know what, you don't deserve any sort of witty retort. So how about you just fuck off and die. That work for you?

[VictorDeAngelo]

But I do think everyone should play nice

But Acryon, "fuck off and die" is nice by my standards.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Rules:

11) Rule Eleven no longer applies, and I am too lazy to renumber everything hence.

I'm not sure I can follow this rule.

[VictorDeAngelo]

OMG Dooku, learn to recognise sarcasm already!

[VictorDeAngelo]

Hey Dooku, let's cut all the ambiguity from our posting and talk straight.

I'm not currently interested in a Crossbos lynch. Would you like to:

a) Tell me why I'm wrong.
b) Abandon the madness and get on the House wagon?
c) See if I'll compromise on a Cyanide lynch? (spoiler alert: I'm totally up for lynching SC still)
d) Whisper sweet nothings into my ear about a new disturbance in the force.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Hey Dooku, why'd you disappear when I stopped playing around and started asking serious questions?

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Dooku

- Do you think there's a lynch outside of House/SC/Croboss toDay?

There is unlikely to be a catchup from Rach before the D1 end.

Why the skepticism?

FWIW I agree with Acryon that Dooku's catch up post warning was weird. I doubt anyone was going to read Rach (or anyone else's) catch up post and say, "good post, let's consider her conftown from here on out.". However, I wouldn't expect Dooku to be coaching, more simply trying to prevent people townreading others. Probably means Rach is town if Dooku scum if anything.

How do people feel about killing off Rach?

I don't like the idea of policy lynching an inactive player, when we can actually lynch scummy players and get more information.

[VictorDeAngelo]

UNVOTE:

House doesn't seem as scummy after 408.

VOTE: Sir Cynanide

Still think this a good lynch choice for toDay.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Victor For sure. If someone does scummier things than croboss, of course I am willing to lynch him/her. But it is obvious imo.

Meh, I still think we have better options than lynching an inactive.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Victor For sure. If someone does scummier things than croboss, of course I am willing to lynch him/her. But it is obvious imo.

Meh, I still think we have better options than lynching an inactive.

Who talks about lynching him right now?

Are we still talking about the same thing?

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Victor
I don't want to lynch him right now. I am pushing him because it looks like nobody else cares about him, and he will get away with obvscum things. But good job town. When somebody is scummy as shit just say a) he is newbie so everthing he does is scummy, so they don't mean anything. He cannot be scum because he is a newbie. B) don't lynch him because he lurks when he knows that there's a wagon on him/inactive/avoiding specically this game. He cannot be scum because he lurks. No comment.

You keep saying you don't want to lynch right now. When exactly when are you proposing we lynch him?

Also
A) I didn't know he was newbie. I just didn't see anything in his play which was really that scummy. But the fact that he's a newbie means some of the stuff could just be inexperience rather than scumminess.
B) The guy's inactivity seems sitewide, so it's probably not alignment indicative.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Victor
When we are closer to deadline, and nobody else does scummier things.

I don't think town's benefit from holding off a lynch when they have a scummy player. And if you think he's obvscum, why exactly wait and see if someone scummier emerges? That doesn't really make sense.

When did I say that you, Victor, said that he is a newbie, so he cannot be scum. I said town, generally. For example Drezi.

You brought it up in 426 so I commented on it. I don't think anyone actually said he couldn't be scum because he's a newbie, unless I missed something.

Seems sitewide? Did you take a look at his profile?

Yes. You should take a look too.

Did you read 401-402?

No, I did my own research. It involved clicked a couple of links and looking at a page a few moments. Hardly strenuous.

I'm not liking Dooku right now.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Dooku please learn the difference between "it doesn't necessarily mean he's scum" and "he cannot be scum".

I think it was obvious that I exaggerated in Post 426...
But if you look at your reasons, they are not that far away from that. The only thing you could say was "that is not necessarily scummy" and why? Because he is newbie. So you are not scumreading him because he is a newbie.

In fact fuck it,

VOTE: Count Dooku

[VictorDeAngelo]

croboss

Needs to die. Lets see what his replacement has to say.

What makes his posts scum play instead of bad town play?

What makes anyone's posts scum play instead of bad town play? Serious question.

Motivation. Scum will usually have an agenda with all their posts. Bad!town posts will look scummy but won't have any actual scum motivation behind them.

[VictorDeAngelo]

It would seem intuitive that scum have a higher level of lurking than town, but I have no hard evidence for that. That said, without going into detail for fear of talking about other games, I completely agree with acryon here.
VOTE: cyanide

I have found that simply lurkiness equalling scum is a common misconception. Scum are perfectly capable of being active, just as town are capable of keeping their heads (in fact there are several reasons why a player could be town in two games, and yet active in one and lurky in another).

I do like that Riabi looked at Crosbos posting rather than take Dooku's word for it.

@Victor
When we are closer to deadline, and nobody else does scummier things.

I don't think town's benefit from holding off a lynch when they have a scummy player. And if you think he's obvscum, why exactly wait and see if someone scummier emerges? That doesn't really make sense.

Why? Even you said, that the deadline is far away: It would be a silly mistake to lynch somoene, even when he is obvscum, because we have two weeks, and maybe he can "clarify" himself, or someone claims scum, etc. You know what doesn't really make sense? These three sentences from you.

1

When did I say that you, Victor, said that he is a newbie, so he cannot be scum. I said town, generally. For example Drezi.

You brought it up in 426 so I commented on it. I don't think anyone actually said he couldn't be scum because he's a newbie, unless I missed something.

No, of course nobody said that he cannot be scum, because he is a newbie. But the only thing that Drezi could say why doesn't he think croboss is scum, was "yes, he made a bunch of scummy things, BUT since he is a newbie I am not willing to scumread him, because all these things can come from newbtown" So he is pretty much not scumreading him only because he is a newbie. (See

2

Seems sitewide? Did you take a look at his profile?

Yes. You should take a look too.

I took. And it was obvious that he was avoiding specifically this game. Now, I see that there are some rl stuff (because I took a look at him again, when I saw that he replaces out).

3

1

Just because we have a three week Day 1 (and seriously, why three week days, NS, a game this size should really be two week days at most IMO) doesn't mean we have to use every second. And lynching scum is never silly. If you really did think he was obvscum I would expect you to pushing the lynch hard, instead hoping he 'clarifies' himself or someone acts scummier out of nowhere. But that's pretty much what I said before, and other than saying that my points apparently didn't make sense you didn't really address it at all.

2

Drezi pretty much already explains before, there is a clear difference between what was said, and what your implying was said. No one is against scumreading Croboss because he's newbie; it simply the fact none of your points against actually point to him being scum. I really dislike the way you keep trying to make it out as though people are outright refusing to scumread him on principal, when it must be clear to you that is not what is going on.

3

I know I have to tread the line carefully here, but if anyone else has doubts about whether Croboss was specifically avoiding this game, I urge you to look at his profile and his posting in all games. In addition his replace should be a pretty big hint that Dooku is talking shit here.

[VictorDeAngelo]

My last defensive post was 469. And that isn't that defensive either. Riabi's vote is the most ridiculous thing that happened in this game so far.

I literally loled at this. How can Dooku be defensive when it's been 19 posts since his last defensive post.

[VictorDeAngelo]

1. We don't have to use every second. But the more content we do, the easier we can catch scum. I don't understand you.

Then I won't explain again.

2. Lie. I have pointed out scumtells about him, and Drezi said that he found those things scummy too, but because he is a newbie, he doesn't think he is scum. So (and I hate that I have to repeat my words all the time, because you don't understand me) the only reason he didn't scumread him was because he is a newbie. I really dislike that you are asking the same things again and again, no matter how many times I answered them.

The following are not same:
1) Player X posts something perceived as scummy but player Y says that it not scummy because the player is inexperienced, and therefore could just as easily made the posts as town.
2) Player X posts something perceived as scummy but player Y says that player X is new and therefore can't be scum, and therefore they won't scumread under any circumstance.

1) is what actually happened and 2) is what you keep implying happened. Either your incapable of understanding the difference or unwilling. As this point I won't argue further.

3.Before he replaced out, he was avoiding this game specifically, or at least it looked like it. After he replaced out, I unvoted, and said, that from then on I didn't think it anymore. A suggestion: before you try to make me look scummy, and state that I am talking shit at least read my posts, because people wont buy your arctifical scumreads like this.

It didn't look like that at all. In fact everyone except you who actually checked his posting in other games all saw the same thing, that he wasn't posting in other places while avoiding this game as you suggested, but simply was not posting on the site. And as for you unvote:

And it is not only the case when we talk about croboss. Nearly all of his posts were scummy AND then he lurked, and avoided specifically this game. But people don't understand this.

Replace out

Oh, I forgot to UNVOTE: .
That slot is still a scumread for me.

I'll let people read it for themselves.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I apologise in advance to whoever replaces into the Dooku spot. At this point, there's not much you could do to make me not want to lynch you today.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I can't be bothered to read lot's of replacements catching up so I'm just to skim read the last pages. If I miss a question or something, don't be offended.

Hello hello!

I'll catch up and post something in my pace.
We still have 11 days.

Please don't take 11 days. If Rach could catchup/replace out then I would simply call for this Day to end already.

Hey Reminisce, why are voting Death for something that happened on page 1 at point in the Day? Do you really expect that after you read the remainder of the game to this point that post will be the scummiest thing you read?

Hey, Sakura, did you notice the wagon on Dooku, and the nonwagon on Acryon before 595?

[VictorDeAngelo]

VictorDeAngelo has been prodded.

Yes he has.

I say we let Nacho say something useful and then lynch

Dooku

Reminiscence. I see no reason to lynch anyone else out of his replace out.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Apologies for putting this game on the backburner. I'm working at home today and this my only game in a Day phase, so fingers crossed I can catch up and actually contribute.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Mod

- Please replace me.

Enjoy the remainder of game guys.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I will never again moderate a game with three-week deadlines.

WTF was I

thinking???

Thank you. Thank you so much.

Gj town.
I am sorry that I replaced out, but I knew that if I stay I will make our situation even worse.

Strategic replace outs are just wrong.

Also credit to Rem/ika keeping this slot alive for 3 Days. I don't know what they did but I'm almost tempted to nominate them for a scummy.

[VictorDeAngelo]

all i did was lurk and hammer vote. i dont really think its qualified for anything