Micro 447: Shameless Mafia -- Game Over!

[TierShift]

starting reread.

[TierShift]

That was one of the most blatant crumbs I've ever seen, lol.
I hear anen's scumgame is good, though.

As if noone else had done shytty things in the history of MafiaScum.
By the way, calm down there, I'm not a Vig this time.

VOTE: Toon Fighter
All of his posts have been blatantly scummy so far.

why didn't you immediately call me scum here, anen?

I hear anen's scumgame is good, though.

Tiershift saw my town-play twice. Why would he have meta-ed my scumgames on Page1, when I had only one single post?

So, someone must have told that to Tiershift.

I've never played with these players before: Toon Fighter, shos, This Christmas, estival.
Alchemist saw my

town

game, he even linked it. (I'm afraid I'll be even title-fairied because of that shytty move lol.)
ArcAngel saw two of my scum games; one of them was very,

very

far from good (Street Racers: London), the other one was fine (Open 573: C9++), but it wasn't good enough for winning the game.
I met Dodgy in Open 583 JK9++. I was scum and our team did a great job indeed.
I was scum in a Newbie too, I did it well, I think, but none of these players were there.

That's four games, two of them are good: one is maybe okay, one is terrible. My scum-meta doesn't show that I'd be a remarkably good player as scum. In addition, I'm neither a famous, nor a particularly significant player at all.

The only player who could have told Tiershift that I was good as scum is Dodgy. The one who has direct meta only on my best scumgame so far.
The only place it could have happened is the scum QT.

Tiershift slipped. This was unfortunate; had that sentence had been posted about a player with more completed games, it would have been much harder to backtrace the information listed above.

Tiershift and Dodgy are scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tiershift

We've talked about this for a long time. I do not think this makes him town. What I do think, is that if he's scum, he's got to be confident in his own ability. Let's see how that matches up with the rest of his play.

Why would anyone have been talking about your scum meta in the scum PT if you're not scum?

Alch looks really town for this and his way of explaining on page 2.

Also, Tiershift's wagon seems a bit too big for the size of the game. Will abstain from voting for now because RVS seems over and I don't know where to put my vote for now.

I like

Do you believe I slipped being scum with dodgy? Why are you then not treating dodgy as scum?

@Anen: did you really believe dodgy was scum with me and would just bus me and hope he'd make endgame? That's totally ridiculous. Why would he do that?

My problem is that I simply can't ignore your 12, and I don't think I'll ever be able to drop the idea that it was a slip. So I examine all of your posts assuming that you're scum.
For example this one. Yes, we were nominated, I was in an excellent team (Wicked and Heartless). It

is

possible that you saw that but if so, you would have mentioned it

right after

my post about your slip.

So, everyone: here's my idea.
I can't imagine anyone as scum but Tiershift and Dodgy. Because of this, I don't think I can do anything useful Today.
So, let's lynch Tiershift. (Eg. Alchemist thinks that my read about the slip is wrong but Tieshift is scum because of his other posts.)

If he flips town, it's clear that my reads were wrong (and I'm really sorry, of course).

But

in this case you may think that I'm scum who has set up a clever mislynch and it would be risky with an unconfirmed-me in the town. (I'm town but I can't proove it.) So, fire away any kind of investigation you have on me at Night1. (Yes, I might have some kind of immunity, eg. Ninja, but because I have no idea about the Setup I can't have immunity against everything. Jailkeeper doesn't work, it would proove nothing, I suppose. Even a town-Vig shot would be useful, I think.)

'Oh, I'm not going to do anything useful today. I'm going to tunnel on town and when they flip town, I'm going to be surprised. Oh, and I'm going to roleblock any investigatives!'

ToonFighter, I've only seen one episode but mass claiming is probably not the best idea. Why did you suggest it?

The conversation between TierShift, Alchemist, dodgy56, and Aienen seems based on some meta reads?

I can see why scum would talk about another players scum meta if they were to set them up for a lynch but it seems a bit reaching?

hold up there yo, why those questions in that passive voice

scum are talking the talk
walking the walk

This christmas is avoiding the central topic at that moment: anen vs me.

[TierShift]

Shooooooos I want you in heeere

<3

good new is aneninen is town

ok plz share nao

Ok after really reading the game for the first time I have some remarks to do, topped off with a nice vote. Here it goes:
VOTE: Aneninen

I like this. It shows independent thought process.

I don't agree with your reasoning. I think you are grasping at straws with TS. As I said, post 12 doesn't seem like a slip, it was explained later. Post 54 doesn't look like anything. Post 63 looks like it comes after all your insistence. He did look a bit *shifty* at the beginning, and I think he could be scum, but I cannot understand how you have this blind faith that he is scum. I can see you being scum and producing all this case , but the more I see your posts the more I doubt myself.

Alternatively, you vs TS can be town-town, and scum are the ones taking advantage of the wagons and trying a quicklynch of TS, for example. In this category I place dodgy. Looking at it again, I think he is the most likely scum in the interaction, joining the TS bandwagon for bad reasons and overall being a dead weight in the game so far. I'm mor ecomfortable placing my vote there.

unvote, vote: dodgy

There is no reason for scum-tf to switch votes, I don't think.

TC continues to be worth absolutely nothing.

[TierShift]

Can we just lynch shos?

I hadn't noticed the claim. Still, it doesn't make him $100% confirmed town

This looks bad. still think this is town, though. Especially because he starts a new wagon when he's being deadline wagoned.

Wellshyt, I think I dislike ToonFighter. Here are the reasons:

– 53: the nameclaim is null in itself, but it's weird, because in 133 he said that he hadn't had time for the game (yet he

had had

time for that claim) and he started reading at that time (136... It's okay if someone doesn't read anything but how could he miss a case which had started on Page1?

– 136: First part: TierShift and I could be scums together. (Lololol...) Next part, this:

"Even if you are correct in your theory, even if you had a 100% guilty read on those players, you'd need much stronger arguments to convince me to vote with you, to block and/or investigate you at night, and to basically follow you everywhere. [...] Anen, do you still believe town should follow everything you suggested here? Has your opinion changed in any point?"

Then finally, ends the post with a vote for me.
It's possible that he's scum with TierShift and wants to make a compromise read on me. But okay, let's forget about TierShift now.
He says that I'd need stronger arguments – but how those things after that (vote with me, block me, investigate me) add up at all? Also, he asks questions, but before getting any answers from me, votes. Whuttafuk?

– 145:

"I voted anen because I didn't like his attitude, acting like he knew the entire game by page 3" – since when has been an attitude-tell an alignment tell? By the way, the last sub-sentence is a kind of discrediting. (I must be wrong because it's only Page3...)

– 146: too defensive. Just check why ThisCristmas voted for him. ^_^

– 160: voting for Dodgy.

" Looking at it again, I think he is the most likely scum in the interaction, joining the TS bandwagon for bad reasons and overall being a dead weight in the game so far."

– at that point my wagon was not moving and Dodgy was the leading wagon.

– 198:

"There are usually 3-4 times more town than scum. And D1, with little information, favors scum a lot more than town. So, probability really"

– everyone knows that. But, posting this might be a "safe ground" for performing a mislynch later.

– 284: unvotes Dodgy because he replaced out. Or because that wagon was not moving...?

– 301: votes for Shos. Yet again, he ends up on the leading wagon!

– 310:

"That is why I was only considering the top wagons."

– oookaaaay but he was doing that all the time, regardless of the time we've left!

– 336: that was simply pigeon poop.


UNVOTE:
VOTE: Toon Fighter

Also,
(1) it's possible that he's scum with TierShift (first TS is "scum with me", next, when those wagons are not moving it's a "town-vs-town") and
(2) I really don't like those names on the Shos-wagon, as I said before.

The incredible overjustification for voting a secondary scumread I talked about before. Blegh.

what is up with wagons that aren't even possible being this close to deadline? that awakens the sleeping enthusiast in me

seriously!!!!

VOTE: Toon Fighter

and estival (the bad alt slipper who keeps posting as 'elusive') - seriously - is "revoting" tiershift when that still is L-3

Lynch -2

ehhhhhh this seems particularly easy

[TierShift]

(1) Both ToonFighter and Shos were at L–1 after VC1.13. (After my 353)

Shos Wagon: Alchemist21, TierShift, This Christmas, Toon Fighter
ToonFighter wagon: shos, estival, ArcAngel9, Aneninen

(2) The sequence of events from that point.
– Estival unvoted. (Estival is confirmed townie)
– ArcAngel unvoted.
– Estival re-opened the TierShift wagon.
– VC1.14: Shos at L–1 (unchanged), ToonFighter with 2 votes, TierShift with 1 vote. The VC said

less than 12 hours

.
– ToonFighter voted for Aneninen. (Estival voted for TierShift but she had already been voting for TierShift at that time.)
– ThisChristmas votes for ToonFighter. (Both Shos and ToonFighter are at L–2, 3–3 votes.)
– ToonFighter votes for TierShift.
– Aneninen votes for TierShift.
– Estival unvotes.
– ThisCristmas votes for TierShift.
– Druuge votes for ToonFighter but he votes for TierShift in his next post. TierShift is at L–1.
– Day ends.

Conclusion #1. Estival's vote moving seems as if he'd been trying to sabotage the Lynch. Assuming that a NoLynch is bad for the town, it was very scummy – yet he was Nightkilled!

He must have done or said something which was detrimental to the scums!

(3) Between VC1.14 and VC1.16 (final), so, in the last 12 hours the following players were here:
– ArcAngel, ThisChristmas, Estival, Shos, ToonFighter, Alchemist, Druuge, Aneninen
(In the order of appearance; last post closest the Deadline comes Last.)
corresponding TimeTags are

Mar 06, 2015 11:27 pm

and

Mar 07, 2015 11:09 am

; CET

– before ToonFighter's vote for Aneninen (386) the Shos-wagon was L–1.
Conclusion#2: if Shos's scum, ToonFighter derailed his wagon. Although he could have done so earlier too.


(4) All-around site activity of players getting close to Deadline (only the fact that they were posting somewhere, without mentioning anything about the certain posts, games or whatever) – we get no new info here. Everyone'd been active in this thread for the last time before the Deadline.

Conclusion#3: I can see no players directly sabotaging the Lynch, it could have been an unfortunate coincidence as well.

I like this post. I like that the conclusions logically follow from his observations.

I will only be able to disclose the reason I have a townread on anen late in the game

PLZ

I bet there will be no TierShift wagon now...

ToonFighter: I've never watched Shameless "thoroughly" but I've seen some episodes, so the story isn't a "complete one" in my mind. (I usually watch series while doing housework, playing Mafia, etc. you know.)

So, I'm examining Estival's reads now. (In order of appearance.)

TierShift kind of lean scum but town later.
Votes for This Christmas, 233.
Townreading Shos, 230.
Disliking This Christmas and Druuge because of trolling.
Voting for ToonFighter, 335, because he didn't read Shos's claim.
Unvotes in 359.
Scumreading TierShift in Aneninen, voting for Tiershift in 374.
Saying that This Christmas slipped, in 405.
Townreading ToonFighter and ArcAngel in 415. Lean town on Shos (419).
Saying that he wants to lynch Druuge in 433

________

These players may have gained something by silencing her: This Christmas, Druuge, TierShift, (Aneninen)
These players may have lost something by silencing her: ArcAngel, ToonFighter, (Shos)
No read on: Alchemist
(Less significant-looking names in brackets.)

Is there anyone else who thinks ThisChristmas slipped?

Even though he might be scum wifoming, this is another post I somewhat like. :/

TierShift, 534 – are you fence-sitting here, as for your Shos read? Also, you wrote this:

Everyone, even a tunneller, can evaluate other stuff. Anen obviously doesn't want to.

I don't regard him very highly as a player

, but based on previous games, I'd expect him to be able to evaluate a bit more objectively.

– aaand you posted on Page1

"I hear anen's scumgame is good, though."

... sooooo, putting these two things together it means... you know that I'm town. Because of...
....
VOTE: ArcAngel9

This is weird. He basically accuses me of being scum here but votes arc.

I'm fine with a vote on AA9. Looking back all she's done is make pushes based on nameclaiming (which she originally opposed). It doesn't look good that she just now character claimed after pushing for it so much earlier. If you though nameclaiming was such a good idea why didn't you do it before demanding claims from other players?

VOTE: ArcAngel9

L-1

this vote is very easy

All in all, anen comes in as a whole new person day 2. His tunnel on me is gone and he has a few good points. I'm not sure what to think of it. On the one hand, it doesn't make much sense he would just let go of his tunnel as town and it does make sense to think his partner has had a say in that, on the other hand he could just have stopped being a moron.
And of course there's the fact that he 'knows' I'm scum but votes elsewhere. That doesn't fit with stopping being a moron. so....
hm...

[TierShift]

Alchemist and shos

VOTE: alchemist

was going to say that this makes christmas-alchemist team unlikely, until I saw the next post. Maybe it is likely with the desire to get shos removed first.

VOTE: shos

Scumbag

Respond to me re: anen

Is this @me? Tbh his tunnel isn't out of the ordinary imo. I argue with my scumreads a lot when I'm in tunnel mode. Actually, looking at how he has cased TF and been voting elsewhere, I'd say he's been lighter about tunneling than I usually am when I tunnel. As far as the perceived slip goes, he hasn't really been contradictory about it. Yeah, he thinks you slipped, but that doesn't mean he'll get others to see it that way (and he probably won't unless one of you actually flips scum because it's a highly contextual point). He's still scumreading you, which makes sense from the POV if him thinking you slipped.

@Anen, I do feel I need to point this out though. The only way what Tier said was a slip is if he's scum with the Dodgy/Droog slot. You're considering AA9 and TF scum possibilities, so you already have some belief that you could be wrong. I need you to take a step back, clear your head, and ask yourself if you can still keep pushing your point against TierShift knowing that the slip only makes sense in a highly specific situation. Remember how I deathtunnled Siv in our last game together? I feel like you're doing the same thing to TierShift, and it could potentially be just as damaging to the Town.

Gonna say it's not anen+alch.

Arcs effort to methodically figure out the game and its flavor felt natural
I don't feel good about this lynch.

The way the lynch was being rammed down does not look good

why does this come only after the lynch? You have not once tried to defend arc.

Mobilpost. I'm on my way to a birthday party of a friend of mine. If ArcAngel flips town Tiershift and Alchemist are scum.
Partly because of the hammervote partly because it happened after druuges case. And I had this idea before.

Of course if ArcAngel flips scum ignore that part above.

Why must everyone finish a Day when Im fcking not here lol

I think it speaks in anen's favour that he has not yet tried to ram through an alch-me scumteam.

[TierShift]

Okay, so what I want is for shos to explain his tell. Now. I can help researching, even.

I'm pretty sure this christmas is scum, with either anen or alch. I think TF is town. Gonna do associatives right now.

[TierShift]

okay, anen and christmas have close to zero interaction.
Christmas first fencesits on anen vs me. Then there is this:

I bet there will be no TierShift wagon now...

ToonFighter: I've never watched Shameless "thoroughly" but I've seen some episodes, so the story isn't a "complete one" in my mind. (I usually watch series while doing housework, playing Mafia, etc. you know.)

So, I'm examining Estival's reads now. (In order of appearance.)

TierShift kind of lean scum but town later.
Votes for This Christmas, 233.
Townreading Shos, 230.
Disliking This Christmas and Druuge because of trolling.
Voting for ToonFighter, 335, because he didn't read Shos's claim.
Unvotes in 359.
Scumreading TierShift in Aneninen, voting for Tiershift in 374.
Saying that This Christmas slipped, in 405.
Townreading ToonFighter and ArcAngel in 415. Lean town on Shos (419).
Saying that he wants to lynch Druuge in 433

________

These players may have gained something by silencing her: This Christmas, Druuge, TierShift, (Aneninen)
These players may have lost something by silencing her: ArcAngel, ToonFighter, (Shos)
No read on: Alchemist
(Less significant-looking names in brackets.)

Is there anyone else who thinks ThisChristmas slipped?

in which anen fencesits on TC's slip. As no one responds, he quickly stops talking about the slip (go check).

Town - arc, droog

Tiershift

Anen
Toon

Scum - shos, alchemist

and here is the obvious readslist where anen is in the middle and he does no effort to figure anen out.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

There's something that I don't like.
If all claims are real, it'd mean that the town has (1) a 1–shot Tracker (confirmed), (2) a Voyeur, (3) a Gunsmith and (4) a 1–shot Commuter. The scums have in this case a Roleblocker.
Wouldn't it be a bit unbalanced?

who suggested there's a roleblocker?

anen i dont like that comment

then there is this which is ignored by anen and quickly forgotten afterwards by TC.

Well.
investigation shows that by mi soopir sikrit tell, Aneninen is actually scum.
..which means I'm going to have to go through ALL his games to make sure I'm correct.

WTF?!?
I'm not scum.

Are you freaking out

No. I simply don't understand it at all.

And this is another shitty interaction.

P-P-P-Pretty sure I found the scumteam. They completely avoid each other and fencesit alllll the fucking time.

[TierShift]

yeah so alch-this christmas makes less sense. christmas wants alchemist gone and they interact about meaningful stuff early game, even though it is little. Most of all, I'm missing the awful fencesitting that TC shows with anen.

TC and Anen are scum, gg.
I'm just waiting for shos's tell and I'll give the scumteam 24 hours to defend themselves

[Aneninen]

One mislynch would be enough for you, Tiershift, wouldn't it?

[TierShift]

And the discrediting begins

you're also free to address my points.

[shos]

TC and Anen are scum, gg.
I'm just waiting for shos's tell and I'll give the scumteam 24 hours to defend themselves

sorta agree.

I wonder how many times I spoke about my secret read, and how many times people asked me to say it loud.

testing now.

[Aneninen]

Handypost. Ich erzähle später warum Tier ein Scum ist.

[Aneninen]

Shiiiiiiiiiit!
I'll explain later my case against Tiershift. It's not the slip now. I'm from mobile and sorry I know I'm close to a warning now.

[shos]

lol is that german?
google translate works..

[shos]

OH GOD NO

[shos]

So...In like 10 of anen's most recent games, he posted a picture of a pidgeon if and only if he was town. he didn't this game.

but it seems that there is at least one game in anen's meta from far longer ago in which he was scum and posted that picture.
this sucks.

[shos]

for the record, this is against site rules, so it's ok that it's not 100% lol

[shos]

Anen, explain to me please, what is the deal with the pidgeon? Why do/don't you post it?

[Alchemist21]

Are we really about to have a conversation about pigeons now?

[Toon Fighter]

I don't see what is wrong with talking about pigeons

[Alchemist21]

They're disgusting dirty pigeons with mites all over them, and they're sex addicts.

Spoiler:

If this isn't clear to anyone, it's a Mike Tyson Mysteries reference.

[TierShift]

for the record, this is against site rules, so it's ok that it's not 100% lol

It's not against site rules if he doesn't do it on purpose.

TF, alch, feedback on tc and anenscum? Who do you think scum is?

[TierShift]

Anen, I asked you two questions in 826.

[Alchemist21]

I still see TC scum. I don't see Anen scum though. I do have a hypothesis on the pigeon thing, but I would wait for Anen's explanation before going into it.