Open 591: C9++, The Lunatic Ayslum (Game Over: Town Win!)

[Marcrell]

I've like Dark's attack. I've liked Collatz defense. I wouldn't say either was scum. I wouldn't townread, but they definitely wouldn't earn my vote.

more tingle.

Is this how you refer to gut or a furthering scumread or...?

[Alchemist21]

^Are you saying that even though you liked their posts they're still null to you?

[curiouskarmadog]

Is this how you refer to gut or a furthering scumread or...?

yes

[Marcrell]

^Are you saying that even though you liked their posts they're still null to you?

Okay, that was phrased badly. I like Dark's posts against Collatz. I also like Collatz defense. Neither are anything that scream guaranteed townie to me. But if I has to guess scum or town I'd say town. Town lean I'd say to both of them.

[Randomnamechange]

Marcrell is town.

[Otolia]

Otolia, why haven't you come up with anything productive so far? You've asked questions and made empty statements.

(...)one could argue (...) I've got nothing better to do with my vote (...)

Why the distancing from the vote? Do you not stand by your actions?

Voting is the commitment. Besides what do you consider productive ? Do you consider yourself productive ?

[curiouskarmadog]

OTOLIA, apparently you missed this question (?)

Considering Collatz qualifies as a MS newbie, one could argue that DarkLightA is grasping at anything he can. I've got nothing better to do with my vote so VOTE: DarkLightA

what post do you feel like Dark is "grasping" at straws?

[DarkLightA]

Otolia, why haven't you come up with anything productive so far? You've asked questions and made empty statements.

(...)one could argue (...) I've got nothing better to do with my vote (...)

Why the distancing from the vote? Do you not stand by your actions?

Voting is the commitment. Besides what do you consider productive ? Do you consider yourself productive ?

All I'm saying is that that vote looked like you were setting yourself up extremely well to jump off that vote with no further consequences at a later point. I don't like that.

I consider myself productive.

[Reubus Swagrid]

What I've gathered so far minus null reads that have nothing of interest

Alchemist21- Probably my most sure townread at the moment for genuine sounding posts and #131

DarkLightA- Analysis is good, slight townread

Lucky2u- Innocent Child

CDK- Running with a policy vote until I set off his “spidey senses”, unsure as to why. I explained that last time I was faced with a situation like this the person was actually town, though that’s 1 out of 2 games on MS I’ve completed, which isn’t enough for me to actually read him either way, though in the situation that I provided I initially scumread him on D1, doing so helped move the game along and generally elevated our understanding of each other. I would also like to note in that game I was scumread by scum after scumreading that particular townie on D1. If I

had

to choose an alignment at the moment I would honestly be leaning scum, but at the moment I only find you a suspicious nullread

Random Migdet- I have no idea what to make of your brief ISO, null for now

Rest are nulls but without a doubt more is going to come to light, do with this as you will. I have a suspicion that some of the less posty players are more likely scum than CDK but we'll see

[Reubus Swagrid]

Marcrell is town.

Why?

[Otolia]

All I'm saying is that that vote looked like you were setting yourself up extremely well to jump off that vote with no further consequences at a later point. I don't like that.

I consider myself productive.

So I'm setting myself up to do the same thing that you just done and that Collatz is calling you on ? Aren't you a bit hypocritical ? I don't really like how you consider yourself above all reproach especially when you're pulling this kind of shit off. Cognitive dissonance at its best.

[Lucky2u]

Lucky2u- Innocent Child

You figured this out all by yourself did you?

[Collatz]

@randommidget - would you explain why you think Marcell is town?

[DarkLightA]

All I'm saying is that that vote looked like you were setting yourself up extremely well to jump off that vote with no further consequences at a later point. I don't like that.

I consider myself productive.

So I'm setting myself up to do the same thing that you just done and that Collatz is calling you on ? Aren't you a bit hypocritical ? I don't really like how you consider yourself above all reproach especially when you're pulling this kind of shit off. Cognitive dissonance at its best.

Listen: I'm not calling you out on the voting or on wanting to gather information, that's more than fine, but I'm just questioning the way you're doing it. You're misrepresenting what I'm arguing.

[DarkLightA]

I just saw midget as town, one shot vig a person who got a guilty on scum....because he wasnt reading the thread.

if all things constant and someone has to die today, it should be him.

Link?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60843

Walk me through where abouts Zebulin said he got a guilty.

[DarkLightA]

Otolia, how do you feel your play now compares to how it was back when you last played mafia on the forums?

[DarkLightA]

UNVOTE:

[Otolia]

All I'm saying is that that vote looked like you were setting yourself up extremely well to jump off that vote with no further consequences at a later point. I don't like that.

I consider myself productive.

So I'm setting myself up to do the same thing that you just done and that Collatz is calling you on ? Aren't you a bit hypocritical ? I don't really like how you consider yourself above all reproach especially when you're pulling this kind of shit off. Cognitive dissonance at its best.

Listen: I'm not calling you out on the voting or on wanting to gather information, that's more than fine, but I'm just questioning the way you're doing it. You're misrepresenting what I'm arguing.

You're deflecting and I don't see the difference between what I've done and what you've done. So in essence, either you needlessly nitpicking to pass as town or you're just pointing fingers at everything that moves in the hope that you can pounce on it.

I haven't played Mafia on MS for a while, I don't remember the last time I played Mafia here but definitely before the Mayan Apocalypse. Maybe War in Heaven III.

[Otolia]

DarkLightA

: Why are you unvoting now ? Is it because of Collatz's last post ?

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: Otolia

[RedCoyote]

Spoiler: Wall of quotes

Also I'm in BEAUTIFUL Europe, land of the only handsome men (like me) on Earth.

'Course... It's weird that you'd say Europe and not your country or city.

---

Because you changed your vote once, and then twice for no reason.

Oh, I don't buy what you're selling.

---

My vote on Alchemist was also semi-serious. I'd like a response to the second part. Usually offering some sort of reason, even if useless, is better for town.

Please. I can't stand it when people unironically say words like "semi-serious", "kinda random" "I'm a little pregnant". Be bold, friend. When I see a word like semi-serious I think you're leaving the door open to go in either direction with your true intentions.

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I think I have played with only 2 of you before- Red Coyote and Lucky2u.

Yeah, and as I recall you flaked.

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Also VOTE: curiouskarmadog. I'm not seeing his wagon on random.

I don't like this vote. This is exactly what I was referring to with my criticism of his Alchemist vote explanation. Despite it being a "semi-serious" vote, he completely moves in another direction without addressing why ckd is a better vote than Alchemist.

---

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

Were you not informed that you should confirm in-thread?

Eh, don't really like this vote. The question is too lawyer-y, too. Of course he was informed.

If anything, it should be a town-tell to be late in confirming when it's a confirm in thread game. Scum are likely going to be given pre-game access to a PT.

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Before I catch up, this post is horrible.

Agreed. Something is off about Otolia. He's over-enthusiastic.

---

I'm an obvious target because of my vote hopping, and he's taking full advantage of this to make a case against me without questioning whether it's actually a scumtell. What merit does vote hopping this early in the game have to scum that it doesn't have to town? What would make scum more inclined to vote hop than town? I don't know, and I don't think Collatz knows either. I think he's just looking for an easy way to seem pro-town.

Much better post. I like this DLA.

---

This and his follow up are pure nonsense. One can assume that you didn't read your PM's fully if you didn't know to confirm in thread. He's either getting uber defensive at a perceived accusation or trying to create scum tells out of thin air.

I completely disagree. Why do you think it's fine for Otolia to speak on behalf of BBT before BBT could respond to DLA?

---

what part are you not seeing?

my vote page 2 on a wagon "if all things are constant"? Do you think all things will stay constant today?

Also this.

Good to play with you again, ckd. It's been a while.

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But I also can't see Town switching their vote.

What do you mean? DLA explained it pretty clearly in 70. I can accept you disagreeing with him, but it's like you didn't even acknowledge it.

That being said, reading this post you come across more like a stubborn townie to me than scum, so take that how you will.

---

I don't like policy lynches on people day one though.

And just where are you seeing any advocacy of a policy lynch? You seem to be reading wayyy too much into this. I wouldn't even be so critical of this except for the fact that you abandoned your "semi-serious" vote in favor of ckd. Presumably you're fully vested in this vote now.

I'm not going to speak for ckd, but I saw his vote as a placeholder and an attempt to draw attention as to why he's going to be more critical of randomidget in this game based on meta. Nothing more. He even went out of his way to explain it as such.

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Am I the only one who finds this to be suspiscous?

Not particularly, no. Even if I did, however, I'm satisfied with DLA's 70. I don't think you've taken the time to fairly respond to that post.

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so are you voting me because I am douchey or because you think I am scum?

I'm anxious to see a response to this. randomidget needs to explain his vote or move it. As does Otolia and Reubus.

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People who aren't voting right now, why ?

I'm just getting around to reading the thread. Why are you voting mnemomic at this point in the game?

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Out of the kindness of my heart I've fixed that horrific spelling mistake. Am I not a generous God?

All due respect, I'd rather you not micromanage the posts. By all means, correct broken tags or delete stuff that is rule-breaking, but stuff like this is distracting at best.

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Is the implication that as the IC I can decide to not vote but other players have to so that they show their motives? Clearly since the only confirmed town player is doing something, the behavior can't be seen as too suspicious.

I think he noted exactly that when he said "(minus IC that is)".

---

I've like Dark's attack. I've liked Collatz defense. I wouldn't say either was scum. I wouldn't townread, but they definitely wouldn't earn my vote.

Agreed.

VOTE: Marcrell

I'm most suspicious of Marcrell going into this game, and I'd like to encourage others to join me on this wagon. I'll give y'all a few key points as to why.

1) In post 53, he votes ckd because he doesn't "see" ckd's vote. Presumably this means he doesn't agree with the vote, but he doesn't take the time to explain why. Further, he abandons his "semi-serious" vote on Alchemist and has yet to address him since. Now, I disagree with his ckd vote on principle, but I'd be open to hearing his opinion as to why it's a better vote than the one on Alchemist (or voting someone else), but he doesn't give us that.
2) I see a chainsaw defense of Otolia in post 85. Marcrell hasn't talked about Otolia at all this game, and yet he's coming to his defense in what he sees as BBT's nonsensical and defensive posturing. Additionally, this is the strongest he's come down on any player thus far, so it seems to me like this would be a better spot for his vote than ckd is. This speaks even more to the ckd vote not being genuine.
3) The use of the term "policy lynch" in post 92 seems like a strawman. I didn't see ckd advocate for a policy lynch. To be sure, ckd's vote is a policy vote, but he made it clear his vote was riding on randomidget until something better came along. While I can see someone disliking that position, I hardly see it as grounds for voting. The fact that Marcrell felt the need to make a strawman and blow ckd's vote out of proportion is yucky to me.
4) Although I agree with the sentiment behind posts 109, 150 and 153, they all kind of say the same thing. Marcrell isn't really adding anything to the conversation like every other active player is (sans mnemonic).

[RedCoyote]

Pardon any typos in my quote responses. I didn't spellcheck them, they were just immediate reactions I had toward reading the game. You don't even really have to read that wall if you don't want to.

[Otolia]

Hey RedCoyote, it's been a while. Hopefully you don't remember the last time we played together. I'm still ashamed 4 years after

I do consider myself European more than French, but right now I'm in Paris.

[RedCoyote]

How odd, haha. I guess it's more a Euro thing.

I do seem to recall you, but I actually don't remember the game we were in. I could probably go find it... I used to be better about remembering everyone, but the years keep adding up!

[Lucky2u]

I know that feeling. I think we've been scum together before red. I know we've played together, just can't remember it.