Mini 1700: Space Mafia (Game Over)

[VictorDeAngelo]

VOTE: Fraggernaut

For being the last player to confirm.

[VictorDeAngelo]

The first day is 2 weeks long?

Damn, what did I sign up for.

2-3 week days are standard in this forum. What are you used to?

[VictorDeAngelo]

You don't think 20 is rvs?

[VictorDeAngelo]

For being a block...

VOTE: BlockyMan

A very weak "RVS" vote comes in late from DeasVail. This one was particularly weird cause it comes after initial RVS votes are done & over with. I would consider this a real vote.

You don't think 20 is rvs?

Which answers the question posed by Victor.

Not really, since the questions was for Blockyman, and I was hoping he would answer it for me.

This whole analyse was somewhat premature and ott. I like Red's vote on you in 40.

Also would like to mention this but it seems like fraggers is just doing a massive chainsaw attempt on blocky if its for a scum buddy or a buddying attempt on town not sure yet.

So what your saying is Fraggers is scum whichever way Blocky flips?

Actually reading through Fragger vrs Garmr on the next page I find myself liking Fragger more and Garmr less...

56 is scummy. Actually you know what after reading page 4, this needs a vote.

VOTE: Sword

More later...

[VictorDeAngelo]

As for Sword Master's claim, it did read very much like a role PM quote to me. I don't think he would have been able to make up something like that himself. At this point for me he might as well be conftown. This read may of course change down the road, but based on his meta and his playstyle, I don't have much doubt he is telling the truth. I felt like it was a little game-breaking for him to do that because it seems so obviously true, but hey, if he's lying, maaaad props to Sword Master. Well played.

It's a normal game, coming up with falseclaims is hardly rocket science. You get that right?

56 is scummy. Actually you know what after reading page 4, this needs a vote.

VOTE: Sword

More later...

What?? Boy, you crazy. How is that scummy? It's his first vote. Let's see your first vote...

VOTE: Fraggernaut

For being the last player to confirm.

Okay so he votes the same as you. SCUM! He very convincingly claims a role as derptown. SCUM! No, Victor, you silly.

Honestly, like I said, for me Sword is basically conftown, and at this point, votes on Sword are stupid, and Sword is a stupid D1 lynch. He's likely the NK, and lynching him today means somebody else get's NK'd. Bad Victor. Bad.

VOTE: VictorDeAgnelo

So if anyone votes the same as me, it can't be scummy. Reread my post and apply a little intelligence before you post next time.

Yes blockys alignment has little to do with most of my points on fraggers as I didn't see why a town fraggers would approach a wagon that would deconstruct it with out good reason. If you can list a reason that is reasonable I believe not.

I'm getting a newbtown vibe off Fraggers and newbtown tends to do that.

Prod for Victor please mod?

Why are you so concerned with my activity?

@RedFF

- How much experience do you have? (both on mafiascum and on other forums)

what do you gain by not explaining your vote

It's more the relatively minor what I would lose by explaining it. It's not a whole lot, but do I really care if other people suspect GlassCannon or not? Not really at this stage. I do have reasons for suspecting him and whatnot but I feel like there are things that need to happen before I'm more transparent with it.

If you have nothing to lose then it still makes no sense not to mention them. The main problem here is you don't care that your scum read is wagoned or not. This raises a lot of flags also your post seems like a giant excuse

VOTE: deas

Don't like this vote, and in fact I haven't liked any of Garmr play thusfar. It's a toss up whether to vote you or Glass at this point...

VOTE: Garmr

[VictorDeAngelo]

Victor I don't understand what your reason is you post big amounts of empty text

Can you post some points on your thought process on the things you highlighted

For a guy accusing me of posting empty text, you are sure keep things vague. Anything in particular giving you difficulty, or are your just looking to smear?

[VictorDeAngelo]

I didn't realise responding to you was dodging the subject

[VictorDeAngelo]

As for the rest of your post, perhaps you could rewrite it in English when you have sobered up a bit.

[VictorDeAngelo]

but who claims vig as a fakeclaim lol?

It's common among Serial Killers but any scum could use as a fakeclaim if they thought they had the means to pull it off.

Also what do you do you not like about garmr's vote? This bothers me because this is the second time you've not explained anything. (first time was with sword, just called it scummy and left it at that)

Tell you what before I explain, let me ask you this. Since you've got a gut townread on DV, what is your view on Garmr's vote in 181?

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Yoloswag

Also what do you do you not like about garmr's vote? This bothers me because this is the second time you've not explained anything. (first time was with sword, just called it scummy and left it at that)

Tell you what before I explain, let me ask you this. Since you've got a gut townread on DV, what is your view on Garmr's vote in 181?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Let's try this again.

Also what do you do you not like about garmr's vote? This bothers me because this is the second time you've not explained anything. (first time was with sword, just called it scummy and left it at that)

Tell you what before I explain, let me ask you this. Since you've got a gut townread on DV, what is your view on Garmr's vote in 181?

I could see why town might be interested. It's D1 and we need all the info we can get! Didn't want to have to say this but I was going to try to watch gamr to see how interested he was and if he seemed too insistent on deasvail's vote thing that would raise a flag but guess i can't do that now : (. Okay your turn go.

I guess I should first explain my vote. I found DV not explaining his vote fairly townie (mostly because I think he's picking up on the most same scumvibes I'm getting from Glass), and it's particularly common for more experienced players to do that, something which I expect Garmr to be familiar with since he's also been around this forum a while. In addition, his own explanation of his vote was also lacking, since DV is mostly saying he's not interested in detailed explanations/pushing wagons to lynch at this stage (we're what, 3 days into Day 1) and Garmr tried to spin that into DV being uninterested in getting lynches at all.

Now, I'm curious about your response. In 179 is calling for more votes, which clearly suggests he is serious about getting DV lynched, so I'm sort of wondering what more you were looking to see from him before you acted?

[VictorDeAngelo]

prodge, I'll post tonight.

Promise

[VictorDeAngelo]

UNVOTE:

Last few pages have my reads all over the place, going to leave my vote on the player who needs the most pressure (and that certainly isn't Blocky at this point).

VOTE: Firebringer

[VictorDeAngelo]

Yeah, that really is all your getting after two days. I can feel the disapproving glares through the monitor as I type this.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I am here to say hi.

Such a bad active lurkerer

I honestly don't have much to say so far. Blocky still seems most like scum.

What is your opinion on the contrary arguments that have been raised

They are well written arguments.

1

No. Honestly Day 1 is a big hassle for me. Its just mass guess work and theory crafting. Day 2 is when you actually figure stuff out. I would rather us lynch Blocky right now then if Blocky is scum that gives us options and have us look at who defended them tomorrow.

Or reverse if town.

I prefer looking at voting patterns than actual post analysis, actions speak louder than words.

1

This is a cop out answer if ever I read one. Can you elaborate on whether the content of the arguments please.

2

My last major action this game was to vote you. What do you think about that?

[VictorDeAngelo]

I feel pretty sure you couldn't get the votes on me for Day 1 lynch on me.

Call it w/e I've seen players try it in other games. I have never been lynched day 1 in any mafia game from any source I have ever played.

Wanna try break my streak?

@All

Come guys, if we work together we can break the streak!!!

[VictorDeAngelo]

So you no response to 322 then?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Firebringer, I asked you those questions because I expect answers. If you choose not to answer them, then I'm going to take that as scummy and keep voting you until you do (while encouraging everyone else to vote you as well).

@Everyone

- Vote Firebringer, it'll make look cool to all your friends.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@victor

Can I ask what was different with your post 340 and my post 177

Lots of things.

That's not a sarcasm answer, that's me looking at the two posts side by side, trying to work out what you're trying to get at here.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Scorpius you realize lawyers lead you into line of questioning to get the results they wanted. Not finding the truth they load questions and know the answers to them beforehand or they wouldn't ask it. So your analogy is terribad

Let me straw man a question for you:
What's your favorite color?

Ohh didn't answer? Scum!!!

Yeah, but that's not what's happening here and you know it. In fact you seem almost confused as to what a loaded question given your example isn't actually a loaded question.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Frag is town because I know his playstyle and he likes to interrogate people.

I actually think Fire's playstyle right now is similar to Frag's town playstyle.

Your going to need to connect the dots for me here Blocky. What about the way Fire is playing resembled Frag's play?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Right now:

Blocky man, glass canon (who we can't pressure right now)

And if I have to pick another devass slight scum lean

Thank you.

Another question I have is this.

Do you not view Victor being extremely lurky & not really providing anything to the game recently or generally I feel at all as a scum indicative play?

Other then a vote on you, what are you reading Victor for. Also what are you reading Red town for other then the vote on you?

So this is the sort of question that Fire considers worthy of answering. A question that is pretty much closer to a loaded question than anything he's actually accused of being a loaded question. I half wonder if Fragger is trying to coach Fire but that's something to worry about after we have a flip on either player.

Also Fragger, I can't help but notice a complete lack of pressure in my general direction from you considering it appears your actually scumreading me. What gives?

I'm suspicious of lurkiness as well, but at the same time I think I correspond it more with scum then I would with town. Lurkiness to me is a double edge sword. Cause if you are town & lurking while not providing anything to the game, you I feel are working against town's win-con to find & eliminate all scum. I just don't see any logical reason as town why you wouldn't participate in the game. I've seen a few instances already this game & other games I've been in, where scum sit back & let town go at each others throat in hopes of a mislynch or to throw shade on someone to use later in the game.

Sometimes people don't feel like they have anything to contribute to the thread. Sometimes people have other things to do than play mafia.

Equally many players most as much, if not more than normal as scum. Activity levels in and of themselves are far from the best method of catching scum.

You didn't ask any.

I see zero question marks.

Serious question Fire, but is English your first language?

I think we also need to look more closely at Slandaar. Just took a closer look at their ISO, & they have provided little outside of fluff posts. There was a small interaction between him & myself. In his #287 post he literally says he has done nothing. He banks on the fact that scum would have to explain a null read on his playstyle.

I looked closely at Slandarrs ISO and found plenty of non fluff posts. Also, why would scum be banking on scum having to explain a null read on his playstyle. That actually doesn't make sense Frag.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Victor I'll put pressure on you when I feel it's needed. Not when you think it's warranted. I never said I had a full scum read on you, just that lurkiness can very well be scum. Quit trying to mis-rep.

The bolded pretty much alludes to it. You accused me of being extremely lurky (I have not), not providing anything useful recently (again, I have) or generally (I have) and then stated is scum indicative play. You can't allude to something and simply claim it's a misrep because you didn't go the whole the hog and state it.

If you read the full context of Slandaar's post on the subject you would know what that was a response to. Slandaar said he believes mafia would be reading him null right now. I specifically said we need to look at Slandaar's ISO, I never gave a read on him. Once again you're trying to mis-rep what I've said.

I did read the full context. But tell you what, why don't you expand your post and show me what I'm missing exactly, because my interpretation of 400 is you're using the fact Slandarr said he had nothing this game (without any context provided in your post whatsoever) to justify your claim that he "provided little outside of fluff posts".

And seriously, if you're claiming that 400 wasn't an attempt to get people scumreading Slandarr, then what exactly was the point of post?

Also Victor "coaching" is a pretty steep accusation to make.

The way the question is phrased is incredible leading but not trapping. I've seen scum do this before to try to hide communications during the day. The point isn't worth focusing on further until I get a scumflip off either of you though.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Well you won't get a scum flip off of me so I don't exactly understand what information you'll be trying to get from such a steep accusation. If you're accusing me of coaching then stand by it.

Ok, well if you say your town I guess I'll just take your word for it then.

But seriously, I don't know why you:

a) Ignored half my post when you were clearly meant to respond.

b) Seem to think I'm not standing by my statement, when there's literally nothing to suggest that in my response.

You and Fire are as bad as each other at this point, so I'm down with either a Fire or Frag lynch right now.

[VictorDeAngelo]

So instead of tackling any of the content of my post you instead go straight for AtE. I now have a favourite between you and Fire.

VOTE: Fraggernaut

[VictorDeAngelo]

You're a donkey Victor. You honestly expected a different response to you calling me "bad town"? Get out of here.

You honestly can't be thinking I'm calling you bad!town at this point can you?

Your ISO further proves you've for the most part have not contributed much to the game 17 pages in with your 25 posts.

This is crap reasoning. Post counts are not indication of amount contributed to a game, and furthermore amount contributed isn't even a reliable indicator of alignment (I'm pretty sure I already mentioned this anyway).

Your 13, 21, & 23 posts was basically nothing but fluff so you weren't replaced.

OMG, you're an idiot.

You seriously going to accuse me of posting fluff on the first page of the game.

In case the mod decided that since I hadn't posted within four hours of the start the game I needed replacing.

Nope you're an idiot.

Then you disappear until your 150 post where you say you like me from Garmr & myself's early interaction, then proceed to place a vote on Sword with no explanation what so ever other then "56 is scummy".You disappear for another 30+ posts, then come back with 181, which contains a interaction where he has voted for a player who PR claimed & got slammed for it. He comes out salty. Then you once again town read me as "newb town". You pose a close ended question to Blocky & Red, then top off your posts with a vote on Garmr who you were reading scum after a vote on Deas for a read we've yet to see yet.

Other than repeated saying I 'disappear' whenever there is a section of the game when I'm not posting, is there any point to summarising my actions like this?

191, 193, & 194 is basically more fluff.

I will single this out, as I reject the implication this was fluff, it just seems that way if your too lazy to leave the ISO function and actually read the posts around it.

Weak scum hunting in 196, but you give the explanation in 205, where it seems you're trying to buddy up to Yolo who also has been pretty removed from the game.

Where is 205 was I buddying? (seriously actually quote and bold what you think is buddying?

266 brings a unexplained vote on fire but is still fluff. 267 MOAR fluff.

Literally explained my vote in the very short post you obviously didn't read.

You disappear for another 50+ posts again until you post 322 where you accuse Fire of giving a "cop out" answer. Then ask about your vote on him. 323 is meh. 325 not sure who you're directing that question towards. 340 was just bad, joking or not. You encourage everyone to hop on a Fire wagon because he won't answer certain questions from you. Which is not pro-town at all. 344 you said you were looking at two posts side by side between Garmr & yourself but you never did explain that play. 374 & 376 were decent enough. You show here you're actually trying to figure the game out after you were on & off being inactive.

So much of this can explained by simply actually ten seconds to read the posts around the posts in questions. A pbpa like this is completely pointless, and I'm not going to spend any more time pointing out your errors at this point.

So again, what actually are you trying to do here other than waste everyone's time?

I'll post about your recent posts next.

It might have been more productive simply to do that in the first place.

PEdit: I'll deal with your most recent post in a sec.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Once again, did I give a scum read on you? No I didnt. I said lurkiness CAN be indicative of scum. I just provided a analysis thus far of your ISO, where a lot of this "content" you provided was asking questions that aren't going to help solve the game, & a lot of Marshmallow fluff. You're trying to make it seem that I've flat out lied about your lurkiness which is not true at all. Generally speaking you've provided far less content.

I used the word allude deliberately. You attributed a number of scum qualities and asked fire whether he wanted to reassess his scumread. That isn't the sort thing you do when the player in question is a null or town read is it?

And I'm tired arguing about my apparent lurkiness since it seems to be nothing more than simply looking at my post count and saying, "yep, that less posts than I've made. Lurker!"

Slandaar's post are what they are. There's not many of them & most of them provide nothing to town's win-con. I simply showed that Slandaar himself said he hasn't done anything. The whole point of my post with Slandaar was to get town to look at everyone in the game so no one could slip though the cracks. I admit I myself got pretty sidetracked in my scum hunting & wasn't giving everyone the full attention of analysing their game. Hence why I mentioned town needs to look at everyone. Especially those who lurk.

Wow, thank you for your guidance on how we should all be playing?

Out of interest, how many completed games do you have again?

Your "coaching" accusation is almost a bigger joke then your vote on me. You accuse me of "coaching" then say it won't really matter until either Fire or myself flip scum. What happens if we both flip. More or less what I can guarentee; what happens when you push a mislynch of me & I 100% flip town. Where's your logic then? Its a horrible play & as horrible accusation.

Obviously if you flip town the coaching argument becomes void, as it does in the case of Fire flipping town. And if you both flip, I obviously don't have to keep trying to figure out your alignment.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Victor You call me lazy yet refuse to read my ISO where I've been one of the most towniest players in the game. The irony is strong here. Those in glass houses...

I don't need to go through your entire ISO to know that your simply wrong on your assertion that your one of the "most towniest players in the game". You get that I've been reading your posts right?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Also, if you're going to ignore every difficult question I asked you, is there any point in continue to engage with you?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Hold on a sec I'll requote them.

[VictorDeAngelo]

You honestly can't be thinking I'm calling you bad!town at this point can you?

...

Other than repeated saying I 'disappear' whenever there is a section of the game when I'm not posting, is there any point to summarising my actions like this?

....

Where is 205 was I buddying? (seriously actually quote and bold what you think is buddying?

....

So much of this can explained by simply actually ten seconds to read the posts around the posts in questions. A pbpa like this is completely pointless, and I'm not going to spend any more time pointing out your errors at this point.

So again, what actually are you trying to do here other than waste everyone's time?

I've removed the non questions, since you can decide whether you want to respond or not on your own.

[VictorDeAngelo]

But wait, there's more...

I used the word allude deliberately. You attributed a number of scum qualities and asked fire whether he wanted to reassess his scumread. That isn't the sort thing you do when the player in question is a null or town read is it?

...

Out of interest, how many completed games do you have again?

[VictorDeAngelo]

I am glad I could entice this reaction from you. Good information to use later.

I'm also kinda interested in what good information you think you have got from me, especially since you've been falling over yourself to avoid calling me scum.

What good information do you think you've got from this interaction if I flip town?

Equally, what good information do you think you've got from this interaction if I flip scum?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Well you won't get a scum flip off of me so I don't exactly understand what information you'll be trying to get from such a steep accusation. If you're accusing me of coaching then stand by it.

Ok, well if you say your town I guess I'll just take your word for it then.

But seriously, I don't know why you:

a) Ignored half my post when you were clearly meant to respond.

b) Seem to think I'm not standing by my statement, when there's literally nothing to suggest that in my response.

You and Fire are as bad as each other at this point, so I'm down with either a Fire or Frag lynch right now.

I take this as calling me in particular 'bad town". I read it as such from the tone in which it was said.

The "tone"???

Here's a word of guidance, if a player says they are down with lynching you, they think you're scum. You don't need to spend any time trying to decipher what tone the post was written in.

Question Number 2. The point is to show that you've picked & choose when to contribute to the game. It's uncanny how you just seem to be online at all the right moments but choose not to post anything, even if it's scum hunting, at other times.

Wow, so if I don't post anything it's not that I'm ill or busy with work, it's that I'm online but simply choosing not to post anything. I won't be entertaining this argument further at this point, so don't be offended if I overlook anymore references to my lurking.

I don't believe I'm wasting time at all. Try to spin it however you want. I explained my reasoning on you, & I got a fairly good reaction from it as well to use later in the game.

But you haven't really explained anything.

How did I ask Fire if he wanted to reassess his scum read? I asked him why he was reading certain players town cause they voted on him, then asked him what his scum reads are. I then posed a simple question as if he attributes lurkiness to be scum indicative. It was by no means to try to get someone to "reassess" their read.

As I have stated repeatedly, I interpret differently. I'm putting a pin in this as well, since I don't think I'm going to get anything new from discussing it further.

Out of interest. What does it matter? You can click my signature if you really need to know a answer to a fluff question.

You know, it would nice if you quoted the questions, so I can at least work out what your answering without having to open a second tab.

Second, like many people I don't display signatures, but I'll turn them on this time to get an answer. In future though, simply stated would be more helpful. And as another word of guidance, not linking to external sites is also preferable (I don't have a big deal with it personally but I've known people flat out refuse to click any link that didn't go to a well known site).

Ok, so you have one completed game (I'm ignoring the reroll). So I guess I should educate you on a few more things.

First, knowing a player's experience is important in mafia. Knowing how long someone has played can help you with their reads. Someone who has been playing for years, will likely view something different to someone who has been playing weeks (again, this feels eerily similar to something I said earlier with regards to DV). Asking someone for their experience is not a fluff question at all.

Second, and this is why I asked in the first place, why would a player with only one completed game think he needs to lead other townies? Do you really not think that experienced players would need to be told to remember that Slandar is in the game? I don't like your explanation for your motives for 400 one bit and one of the reason I'm scumreading.

I'm falling over myself to avoid calling you scum? Why would I care or worry about calling you scum or not? Do you have several scum qualities right now? Yeah I believe you do. Am I going to place a OMGUS vote on you just cause you tell me to? Nope.

But that's the thing, if I have several scum qualities why not call me scum? Or at least lean scum? Why give a shit about the fact voting you? Why care about a vote being perceived as OMGUS?

I'll have to see from your flip. Do I think you should be the lynch today? Not at all.

This feels like a cop out. I'd be more willing to give you benefit of doubt over the yolo buddying thing if you could point to something that justifies your good information comment.

There's better choices I believe in either Blocky or Slandaar, or Axwell's replacement depending on their content.

So Slandarr is a scumread after all???

[VictorDeAngelo]

victor my man frag is not getting lynched today, so you're gonna wanna hop on this firebringer wagon

You townreading Frag Red? If yes, why?

As far the Fire wagon, I support it and if/when I decide Frag is not going to be lynched I'm happy to return to it. But I don't think we're there yet so I'm going to stick on Frag for the time being.

[VictorDeAngelo]

438 was meant to be

@Red

You townreading Frag? If yes, why?

Apologies to anyone confused by my poor grammar.

[VictorDeAngelo]

To be honest, I did not even know what a vigilante is. I just looked it up, and saw it was town. I thought it was scum because it caused a lot of controversy. My bad guys, My bad.

Blocky is really looking like VI now.

If you think he's VI, why keep voting him?

Do not like the vote shift in 465. I'm suspicious of Yolo as well now, but I think it's time I get behind a wagon that can get to lynch today, and that's neither Frag nor Yolo.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Firebringer

[VictorDeAngelo]

Fwiw Fire, I have no particular dislike for you personally, I just think your scum.

Because as Red pointed out, your main contributions have been to simply state the leading lynchbait is scummy and call everyone suspecting you bad!town. Neither of which achieve much more than active lurking.

[VictorDeAngelo]

May I ask who you honestly think is

my

Blocky's

scum partners are?

Not to throw your own question back at you, but can you answer this Firebringer?

[VictorDeAngelo]

u got me. nice.

ummm

no

This is what got me suspicious about redFF. Remember though, at the beginning, he said he has not played here in about two years. Now, that does not mean he has not been playing elsewhere, but if he were scum, he would be a little easy to find as he would be rusty.

I loled. For reals.

[VictorDeAngelo]

u got me. nice.

ummm

no

This is what got me suspicious about redFF. Remember though, at the beginning, he said he has not played here in about two years. Now, that does not mean he has not been playing elsewhere, but if he were scum, he would be a little easy to find as he would be rusty.

I loled. For reals.

Sorry Blocky, but I was lolling at you, not with you.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Clarification.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Not sure, how it's making things personal, but it's late, and I'm going to bed rather than getting into pointless arguments with you. Goodnight Frag.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I would like to hear Frag give a detailed meta argument about Blocky. More than simply, "he was bad last time he was scum" but something tangible.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Sorry Frag, which of your recent posts was this detailed meta breakdown because I don't see it?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Okay since my other game with Blocky is officially over, I can finally give some META on Blocky. Yes I know META isn't the end all be all for lynches, but along side Blocky's posts it's a secondary. Maybe it'll help town see why my vote has been on him most the day. The game previously I played with Blocky was the exact same as this game. In the previous game he hard claimed scum & was mod-killed. He basically gave no content throughout the game, he never gave his own reads from his own views of the game & posted so much fluff. I think Blocky has for the most part replicated that here as newb scum/uncomfortable scum. When he's mafia he sheep's reads so hard. He doesn't provide any logical reason to his votes or his reads. He never explains his reads in a logical way either.

Was it meant to be this?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Okay since my other game with Blocky is officially over, I can finally give some META on Blocky. Yes I know META isn't the end all be all for lynches, but along side Blocky's posts it's a secondary. Maybe it'll help town see why my vote has been on him most the day. The game previously I played with Blocky was the exact same as this game. In the previous game he hard claimed scum & was mod-killed. He basically gave no content throughout the game, he never gave his own reads from his own views of the game & posted so much fluff. I think Blocky has for the most part replicated that here as newb scum/uncomfortable scum. When he's mafia he sheep's reads so hard. He doesn't provide any logical reason to his votes or his reads. He never explains his reads in a logical way either.

Was it meant to be this?[/quote]

In regards to what? You said I didn't give good META on Blocky.[/quote]

I would like to hear Frag give a detailed meta argument about Blocky. More than simply, "he was bad last time he was scum" but something tangible.

I mean I can break your post down to show you my problems if it helps. Sod it let's do that.

The game previously I played with Blocky was the exact same as this game. In the previous game he hard claimed scum & was mod-killed.

First, surely you can see that you instantly contradicted yourself here.

He basically gave no content throughout the game, he never gave his own reads from his own views of the game & posted so much fluff.

This is fair enough, but the problem I have is, how do you know he doesn't do this as town. Meta doesn't really help unless you can say person X does this only when scum. I have seen my fair share of players play like this in either alignment.

I think Blocky has for the most part replicated that here as newb scum/uncomfortable scum. When he's mafia he sheep's reads so hard.

Again, I think this is a strong statement, but where is the evidence he has sheeped this game to back it up (specifically when was the first time you saw him sheep this game, when did you see him sheep last game).

He doesn't provide any logical reason to his votes or his reads. He never explains his reads in a logical way either.

Again, show us where he did that this game, compared to his scum game, compared to a town game. I have not played with Blocky before, and no disrespect but since I'm neither convinced about your alignment or ability, why should I simply sheep your meta read without any real justification?

[VictorDeAngelo]

sword master shoot firebringer pls

is he even still in this game, been like 9 days since his last post

just shoot someone pls

/barn

Sword should shoot tonight, and Fire is the informative shot.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I don't think Blocky will flip scum, but if he does Sword would still be wise to shoot one of the two counterwagons IMO.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Vahlen

before we invest too much time into worrying why your kill didn't happen, can you give us a detailed break down of why you shot Frag last night?

[VictorDeAngelo]

647 I shot Fraggernaut for a few reasons. First, Fraggernaut is smack in the middle of the day 1 votecount. The middle tends to be where scum hide during the day.

1

He spends an extensive amount of time in his ISO defending Blocky as newb town. Then he votes Blocky in 271 because he's "confused" by Blocky's logic. Usually, the response to a newbtown read being confusing is to get them to clarify and not jump all the way to scum. That's Fraggernaut's first post.

2

The sheery volume of Fraggernaut's posting is also a problem.

3

He should be pushing something with that many posts. Yet, during day 1, he didn't do much pushing. Notably, he did quote Blocky votes repeatedly and only talked about Blocky. That's an effective way to get a target mislynched is to only talk about them and reinforce that other people find them scummy. Fragger's flip would allow for associates if it went through on scum.

4

If he was town, it narrowed down the voices to people actually pushing and advocating for things.

I also wanted to know if I was likely going to get blocked in the night.

5

If Fraggernaut was scum, he likely would block my slot and then claim I had to be scum because the shot was missing.

6

1

Your predecessor was literally the vote ahead of him (in postion 2 of 7, Frag was 3 of 7 and technically Scorpious was "smack in the middle" of the end of day vc). You really feel safe putting such stock in vcs?

2

I was agreeing with this point up until this sentence here. What did you mean by first post?

3

Amen.

4

Well sure, but this is true for any scumread, as long as they actually flip scum. No one has actually suggested you shouldn't have shot last night. However did you consider whether there were more informative shots available?

5

This is odd. Are you suggesting that shooting Fragger increased the liklihood of you getting blocked? How so?

6

Again, what does this have to do with

your decision

on who to shoot? Also, doesn't any scum team with a RB make this decision. Frag's alignment doesn't seem remotely related to this.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Also, Frag, can you respond to my 585 please.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Also, Frag, can you respond to my 585 please.

What information would this give you now?

Because I am still skeptical about this meta read you claimed. For starters, he completly collapsed under pressure as scum afaict and simply wasn't happening here. You've also made a big deal about him not explaning reads and yet his scumgame had posts like this:

Also, I will try to be more active. My top two scum reads are Fraggernaut, and Pisskop. I still do not want to place a vote on anyone yet. Here are my rankings.
1. Fraggernaut for reasons I explainer earlier.
2. Pisskop for not contributing much with a lot of fluff posts and 1-2 line posts.
3. MarioManiac4 for disappearing, I thought he was scum before that too.
4. ConManMick for making a lot of fluff posts and not posting as much. Also trying to manipulate SilverWolf.
5. SilverWolf for directing lots of pressure and letting ConManMick manipulate her.
6. Prolapsed Brain for making some good posts, and then disappearing (for the most part).
7. Free Stool Sample for not being that active and involved.
8. Keyser Soze for making a lot of pro-town posts.

PEDIT: My native language is English, but I can say a couple words in Spanish and downloaded the Google Translate app.

Which is far different from his disengaged, not explaining attitude in this game. Similarly, his hesitation to use his vote in his scumgame compared to the lengthy amount of time he left his vote on Sword in this game seem completly at odds with what your saying.

But I only have a brief overview of the other game, you were actually playing it, so can you show me what you were thinking?

[VictorDeAngelo]

The whole flubbernugget debate is pretty relevant rather you think so or not Yolo. He only claimed he put the "vigi" shoot on me AFTER I pinged him out for there not being two kills last night. I said it continously at the end of d1. If the scenario happened, which it did, we needed to look at Sword's claim & the slot; which I now believe was fake. Therefore my vote has remained.

What so now your saying you think he's only claiming to have vigged you because you called him out for the lack of a second kill. You seem to say a lot and yet for all the time your putting in this game you don't seem to be putting a lot of thought into it.

If town wants to push a mislynch on me & put town further behind, then that's on town being donkeys.

Yeah, still not liking this sort of attitude either.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Fragger's constant use of the word "town" and references to the "town win con" are pinging me hard. I just can't hold back anymore.

VOTE: Fraggernaut

[VictorDeAngelo]

Fragger's constant use of the word "town" and references to the "town win con" are pinging me hard. I just can't hold back anymore.

VOTE: Fraggernaut

Don't lie to yourself Victor. You've been wanting to put that horrible logic vote on me from d1. A vote because I say I'm town?

Which I am. I wish I could take a snapshot of your face when you find out you are 100% completely wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I've been scumreading for a long time but I can only read you drop into posts the fact your town so many times and not start to think that perhaps you are drilling this point too much.

Town players rarely feel the need to try and convince everyone their town by mentioning it with the frequency you are.

Fragger's constant use of the word "town" and references to the "town win con" are pinging me hard. I just can't hold back anymore.

VOTE: Fraggernaut

God forbid a town player says town. Too much, this line of reasoning sounds so troll.

Yes, because heaven forbid I use a player's word to help determine their alignment.

[VictorDeAngelo]

So if I say town a lot, I am scum.
Cool.

Town, town, town, town, town, town

It's as if your reading the words in my posts but not bothering yourself with trying to understand the meaning.

So far throughout this game though it doesn't seem like you're willing at all to reassess reads.

Sure I am. For instance, earlier this game I was townreading you. I'm sure if I hadn't bothered reassessing that read you wouldn't be nearly as concerned though.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I prefer Fire to Scorp.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Firebringer

Will hopefully have a more substantial post tomorrow.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Garmr, have you played with scum!Firebringer before?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Garmr, have you played with scum!Firebringer before?

Have you seen anyone in this game's scum game?

Yes.

Why ask such a generic question?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Nope never played

What makes you think that scum!Firebringer wouldn't be sassy? I agree with Doc V that sass tends to be more a personality trait than an towntrait.

[VictorDeAngelo]

And the point was?

[VictorDeAngelo]

And the point was?

I gave you the point. To gather knowledge on previous experience of someone's scum game. It's really not that difficult.

Ok, so what information have you gathered from my response?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Also, I would shift my vote back to Fragger in a heartbeat if I could get support.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Would anyone else agree that Slandaar's posts have officially crossed the fluff barrier? We get it dude,you think I'm scum,and you're wrong. Care to address anything else? Anything?

Pushing a wagon is not fluff posting. End of story.

And the point was?

I gave you the point. To gather knowledge on previous experience of someone's scum game. It's really not that difficult.

Ok, so what information have you gathered from my response?

Response wasnt just to you.

1

Obviously nothing since you have no previous experience with anyones scum game.

2

You're attempting to make this more then it is in hopes you'll get support on your terrible mislynch wagon you want to push on me.

3

1

Who else exactly was the response for?

2

Why in particular do you care about my knowledge of other player's scumgames? Why not ask this to other players? Why not ask about my experiences with others? And did you even bother reading my response to the question or just attempt to go on the attack?

3

You asked the question, almost immediately after I asked a near identical question in 869. Are you really going to keep denying that were was no relevance and the timing is coincidental?

Would anyone else agree that Slandaar's posts have officially crossed the fluff barrier? We get it dude,you think I'm scum,and you're wrong. Care to address anything else? Anything?

I don't know, I'm getting poor phone reception from all the tunneling that's going on here on d2. Victor & Doctor's poor tunnel on me & Slandaar's tunnel on you. Wouldn't it be a crazy world if they're both scum together & they're trying to force a town mislynch & counter with another town mislynch wagon.

What don't you like about Slandaar's case against Scorp?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Frag, can you take the time to actually put together readable posts in future. I'll try and edit to make sense of it but it would be nice if you did a bit of work on your end to.

And the point was?

I gave you the point. To gather knowledge on previous experience of someone's scum game. It's really not that difficult.

Ok, so what information have you gathered from my response?

Response wasnt just to you.

1

Obviously nothing since you have no previous experience with anyones scum game.

2

You're attempting to make this more then it is in hopes you'll get support on your terrible mislynch wagon you want to push on me.

3

1

Who else exactly was the response for?

I asked it towards Garmr as well. He said Slandaar knew his mafia playstyle so I asked him if he knew any of Slandaar's playstyles as well. No need to be so vain Victor. It's not always all about you.

None of that deals with the original question which was "what information have you gathered from my response?". If your saying my response was related to something asked towards Garmr, then that doesn't make sense.

2

Why in particular do you care about my knowledge of other player's scumgames? Why not ask this to other players? Why not ask about my experiences with others? And did you even bother reading my response to the question or just attempt to go on the attack?

I don't particularly care about your knowledge if you don't have any to provide obviously.

a

Wouldn't you want to know if someone knows someone else's playstyle especially if it's scum?

b

You seemed worried that I even brought the subject up. Defensive even to a degree.

c

This entire paragraph is bullshit from start to finish. I'll break it down:

a

You couldn't have known whether I had knowledge or not before you asked the questions, so this is irrelevant.

b

Sure, but you obviously didn't based upon your lack of follow up.

c

How have I been defensive? I am questioning your motivations, and your the one who is dragging this round in circles. I have given a clear answer to every question, unlike you. If I wanted to be defensive wouldn't I have just looks to stop this discussion at the first convenience.

3

You asked the question, almost immediately after I asked a near identical question in 869. Are you really going to keep denying that were was no relevance and the timing is coincidental?

Your 869 was what made me wonder if anyone knew someone else's mafia playstyle in the game were currently in. You asked if Garmr knew a Firebringer scum game. I expanded on the question & asked if Garmr had any experience period with someone in this game. Especially if that playstyle was scum. That question really could be imposed to anyone in the game. Period. Why is it when I expanded on the question, all of a sudden its a "pointless question". Wouldn't that make your question as well "pointless"?

Did I say it was a pointless question? No. What I did, quite simply, was ask why you asked me in 872 whether I had seen anyone's scumgame. The relevent part Garmr plays is that I asked him a very similar question and you threw it back at me.

Would anyone else agree that Slandaar's posts have officially crossed the fluff barrier? We get it dude,you think I'm scum,and you're wrong. Care to address anything else? Anything?

I don't know, I'm getting poor phone reception from all the tunneling that's going on here on d2. Victor & Doctor's poor tunnel on me & Slandaar's tunnel on you. Wouldn't it be a crazy world if they're both scum together & they're trying to force a town mislynch & counter with another town mislynch wagon.

What don't you like about Slandaar's case against Scorp?

As for Scorpious I've read him town as of late,

& think the ISO argument is weak at best.

I don't particularly like his wagon as I've already stated. I've also stated that I can't see myself supporting a wagon on him at anytime today unless something drastic occurs.

Right, this bolded part here is the only part here is really the only part I'm interested in. Expand it. Use whatever quotes, post numbers or whatever and say specificially what you think is weak the arguments.

Also Victor why did you chose to ignore my 794 post about you reassessing your read on me? You barely mentioned a d1 town read on me at all before you started tunneling me late d1 & now most of d2. Is there a particular reason you chose not to address this? Inquiring minds need to know.

I didn't ignore it. I didn't see any thing outstanding.

You complained I didn't reassess my reads. I gave you a counterexample (and yeah I deliberately picked you, it should be pretty clear why). You didn't like the counterexample because as far as I can tell it's not enough for me to reassess my reads, I need to reassess them constantly or something. I don't know what I need to address here. From where I'm sitting, it seems clear you locked down on the fact I don't reassess reads and me arguing with you probably won't achieve anything so.... what exactly do inquiring minds not get?

@Slandarr

- What outstanding questions are there for Scorpious?

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Victor

And the point was?

Seems you're implying it's "pointless" here.

No, I was asking why you did it. Even you made the mistake the first time, I repeated asked you what you trying acheieve in multiple ways at this point so I don't know what else to add.

I already gave you a answer to your question. I said nothing cause that's what I got from your response, nothing. You obviously have no logic to provide. Not sure if you're choosing to just ignore what I've said cause I'm pretty sure everyone else can make out what I'm saying just fine it seems. Anyways it's a tired argument cause you'll continue on pretending I'm not providing anything to the game. I'm pretty sold on a Victor/Doctor scum team now. With a possibility of Slandaar on the outside looking in.

Again I can't really say any more without going the full hog and explain how the linearity of time works, which is pointless because I don't think your completely stupid, simply being willfully obtuse here.

How did I not follow up? I expanded it & asked another right after.

You see how I actually quoted the part I was responding to. That's so people know what I'm talking about. I can't work out what this is related to because it's a one line paragraph floating in the middle of nowhere. As such I'm lost at what you are trying to say.

Didn't see anything outstanding? That's your defense to basically shrug off the fact that you lied about reassessing reads before putting a horrible logic vote on me; in a attempt to mislynch town on a wagon you'll never get the support for. Seems legit.

Except I didn't lie, but apparently this is another point your going to be stubborn on and I'm wasting more time trying to convince you otherwise.

Also, I didn't shrug anything off. Giving you didn't respond to half my post, I guess I can take that as you "shrug off the fact that you lied" right?

I'll deal with the rest after some coffee and breakfast.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Garmr

- You also sheeped the Blocky wagon and that didn't go well. The Day has time left for options other than Scorp/Fire, so tell me, who are your top three scumreads and why?

[VictorDeAngelo]

What question Slandaar?

I have been townreading Slandaar today but I find myself starting to doubt myself the longer this question remains unanswered.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Garmr

- You also sheeped the Blocky wagon and that didn't go well. The Day has time left for options other than Scorp/Fire, so tell me, who are your top three scumreads

and why?

I didn't sheep the blocky wagon mate get your facts straight I compromised on a null because I didn't want a no lynch I even stayed up a extra freaking hour before I hammered.

Also that's easy off my head

scorps
greyfox
You because your like bordering the null and the scum pile.

You missed an important bit.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Garmr

- You also sheeped the Blocky wagon and that didn't go well. The Day has time left for options other than Scorp/Fire, so tell me, who are your top three scumreads and why?

I didn't sheep the blocky wagon mate get your facts straight I compromised on a null because I didn't want a no lynch I even stayed up a extra freaking hour before I hammered.

Also that's easy off my head

scorps
greyfox
You because your like bordering the null and the scum pile.

Also if Scorp's a top scumread why would you say your sheeping Slandarr instead of giving your own reasons?

[VictorDeAngelo]

You didn't say in order did you

I don't understand the question.

[VictorDeAngelo]

First, I still don't get 929. Was it meant to be towards me or someone else?

Second,

@Garmr

- You also sheeped the Blocky wagon and that didn't go well. The Day has time left for options other than Scorp/Fire, so tell me, who are your top three scumreads and why?

I didn't sheep the blocky wagon mate get your facts straight I compromised on a null because I didn't want a no lynch I even stayed up a extra freaking hour before I hammered.

Also that's easy off my head

scorps
greyfox
You because your like bordering the null and the scum pile.

Also if Scorp's a top scumread why would you say your sheeping Slandarr instead of giving your own reasons?

Anyway
-I agree with all of slandaars points plus if you notice he tends to agree with people he said he was leaning scum on me yet he really doesn't follow up or push me that made me a bit curious So I been watching him. His behavior around grey seems a bit wierd I can't put my finger on why but if you iso him and type grey you start to see the picture. He is overly tolerant of grey even through his saying things about him being a slacker ect.

Grey- I have said my reasons on before to lazy to retype them

You- Your on the bottom of my null pile and I'm just eliminating the scummiest nulls to the towniest.

The first sentence is a bit of jumble and I'm not totally sure what your trying to say there, perhaps you could rephrase it. Beyond that, your Scorp arguments are associative afaict. Because without a Grayfoxx flip that doesn't really mean a whole lot. That aside ISOing Scorp and his Gray comments I don't see much that damning. He calls him out for lack and content and placing him in a scumpile. If there's something suspicious there you will need to point it out to me.

Grey - That's fair, you have at least been vocal in this scumread.

Me - So I'm basically PoE. I can't really argue with that either I guess.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@victor I was adding that on top of what slandaar and others had said what's the point in repeating what others have said and trying to make it my own when all I have to say is I agree with it.

Ah ok. I get it now.

Well, when you say sheeping it implies that your following Slandarr because you trust judgement more than your own, wouldn't you agree?

What question Slandaar?

I have been townreading Slandaar today but I find myself starting to doubt myself the longer this question remains unanswered.

Why? I am expecting Scorpious to figure it out. I am sure you can if you look.

I looked briefly but didn't find anything, and frankly I don't really want to trapse the thread when you could just show me what he isn't answering. The fact he's asking what questions suggest he can't find them either so if you want them answered, your pretty much forced to reask them at this point aren't you?

Slandaar, you can ISO Scorpious as well as anyone to find scumhunting posts. Why are you insisting there is none?

Isn't that the point of him asking Frag to quote them. Slandarr is basically saying to Frag, Scorp hasn't scumhunted this game, if you disagree then show me the posts to prove me wrong.

Doc, do you think there are Scorp scumhunting posts this game? In fact, better yet why don't you estimate how many posts you think Frag will find?

[VictorDeAngelo]

You know what there's 5 days so let's at least give it a shot.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Fraggernaut

There's time enough to return to either the Scorp/Fire wagon if this doesn't have enough support.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Mod

VC please.

I'm pretty sure it's like a single vote on you. Don't be so nervous.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Mod

VC please.

I'm pretty sure it's like a single vote on you. Don't be so nervous.

I'm not nervous at all. A VC hasn't posted in some time so I want to get some vote logic out of this.

Sure, and the fact you called for a vote count less than 10 minutes after my vote is merely another coincidence I guess.

You know what there's 5 days so let's at least give it a shot.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Fraggernaut

There's time enough to return to either the Scorp/Fire wagon if this doesn't have enough support.

You don't seem confident in this vote with that last comment. Like it's reluctant vote .

How is it reluctant? That doesn't make sense with what I posted.

if the wagon on Scorp has to do with him reading ISO's then thats a bullshit case

For what it's worth this isn't why I'm voting for him.

I welcome a wagon on myself.

Why?

The last couple of pages have mostly been lots of fighting that I don't really care for. Vote for Scorpious!

The scorp wagon has stalled, as has Fire's. Based on the last few pages, what's your current read on Frag?

[VictorDeAngelo]

VOTE: Fragger

I believe in Garmr:
VOTE: Grayfox

Why so confident in Garmr?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Hey, Fragger instead of voting obvtown, could you do something useful.

Like quote those Scorp posts you said you would yesterday. We're all still waiting!

[VictorDeAngelo]

VOTE: Fragger for a poor start to this day on top of previous suspicions.

Would vote Grayfox too.

I believe that fraggers doesn't know his wrong and doesn't understand some of things. I started getting this feeling around the end of debating with me day 1.

I feel that Fragger's is somewhat confused about things as well. Could he not be confused scum though?

[VictorDeAngelo]

OK, so he's clearly confused by the night numbering system (and that raised some question in and of itself). But are you not concerned about him scumreading Doc here? After everything that went on yesterday.

How do you feel about Fragger's interactions with Slander regarding Scorpious?

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Victor Already said what I needed to say. I was wrong as was a few others. Moving on.

Just so we're clear, your now admitting there are no posts of scumhunting from Scorpious?

And why should we just move on? You were dead against a Scorp lynch, defending him against Slandarr and then refused to back up your arguments with facts despite him telling you to.

So no, I'm not ready move past this and let you slide by.

[VictorDeAngelo]

You know what, in that case I'm going back to Firebringer.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Firebringer

Him being scum would explain why Frag was so reluctant to push him as a counterwagon.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Fragger

- Why is Fitz scum compared to the Yolo slot which produced even less content yesterday?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Good well soon Deas.

It's been a slow start today. Still waiting on Grayfoxx and Shaded to provide content.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Before that, let me flip the script...

UNVOTE:

VOTE: ShadedMelee

[VictorDeAngelo]

The thing that worries me the most though is, If Im not the lynch & if we lynch Fire, GrayFoxx, or Shaded & they flip town; Then Doctor is going to make a horrible Vigi shot on me & we'll be down two more town going into tomorrow.

In mafia, if your scared to make a lynch for fear of hitting, then your never going to get anywhere.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Sure but all you're essentially saying is that if we lynch town today, and then vig town tonight, we're in a worse position as a consequence.

To which I don't know how to respond beyond, No shit sherlock!

[VictorDeAngelo]

Sure but all you're essentially saying is that if we lynch town today, and then vig town tonight, we're in a worse position as a consequence.

To which I don't know how to respond beyond, No shit sherlock!

Meh. That wasn't the point. Essentially tonight Doctor if they're the real vigi, could throw this game for town. They're not reassessing a shot at all which makes me read them scummy.

The best move is to shoot a scummy player as it will either:

a) Hit scum.
b) Remove a potential mislynch.

This really isn't rocket science.

[VictorDeAngelo]

The only reason I'm not spending time getting you lynched today is because you're getting vigged tonight. If that changes I will go back to pushing for your lynch.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Funny how the guy who's supposedly been scumreading me since yesterday says I will fail if I lynch him because he's town.

[VictorDeAngelo]

So it's illogical to push scumreads???

[VictorDeAngelo]

You're 100% pushing a mislynch. You're either scum or really bad town.

At some point you may realise that I'm not particularly interested in your continual pleas of "I'm town, how can everyone be so bad as to not see it, wah, wah, wah..."

Tell me why in ANY logical world if I was scum, why I would bring so much attention from early d1 all the way to now? You can't because there isn't a singular world that exists in. Period.

This is a complete logically fallacy. Simple drawing attention to yourself (whether intentional or not) doesn't make you town.

[VictorDeAngelo]

It would be easier not engaging with you if there more players active enough in this game for me to engage with.

[VictorDeAngelo]

The irony is I'm going vla today so everyone will probably show up and start posting when I'm gone.

[VictorDeAngelo]

In the meantime is there anything you want to ask me?

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Mod

- I'm v/la until the 3rd September.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I'm back but tired, will probably not read up tonight and might not have time tomorrow. Fair warning that you may have to wait to Friday for a content post.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Hmmmm. Can't say I blame Titus for that shot. But I can't say I'm happy to have Frag unresolved in lylo.

I'll need a reread anyway.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Oh, and btw that Fitz lynch was all kinds of terrible, but I'll get back to that after I've read.

[VictorDeAngelo]

VOTE: No Lynch

Let's eliminate someone before anymore discussion.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Is there a link to the mafia PT?

[VictorDeAngelo]

I asked Ether and she said she was waiting on permission from the scumteam before she released it.