Mini 1723: Town of Helen Day 4

[Aristophanes]

I have a feeling I'm gonna look scummy this game. Just forewarning you.
Maybe I like leading everyone rong, though.

[Titus]

SW vs Titus - Titus seems to manipulating/inferring a lot from SW's posts to provoke a reaction. Leaning town because it's extremely aggressive and succeeding in getting a response from SW. SW is overdefensive but frustration at being scumread for stupid reasons comes from either alignment, so still null on her for now.

I like where Vedith and pistachi0n are at. Rob13 is efforting a bit too much this early in the game but I will have to meta this weekend to see if that's normal for him.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Aristophanes. Standing on the sidelines and sheeping Titus, fueling the flames of an unproductive and petty argument. We already have one person getting under SilverWolf's skin and using it to paint her as scummy, we don't need two.

Trying too hard? That's utter shit. Applying that to Rob when he's asking questions and not to sw is wtf. Your Ari attack also makes no sense if SW is null.

VOTE: Guilty Lion

[20x100]

TITUS: do you like papaya? how do you like it prepared?

[Titus]

I have a feeling I'm gonna look scummy this game. Just forewarning you.
Maybe I like leading everyone rong, though.

What's this?

@Head 2, knock off the spam.

[20x100]

srs

[Aristophanes]

TITUS: do you like papaya? how do you like it prepared?

What even!?
Oh wait...
Nah, I might vote for you. What is this shit??

@Head 2, Cults are explicitly excluded.

@Ari, if you're alignment is in your role pm, it wouldn't change, just the win condition. Saying alignment change is deceptive. Even then, it's best just to play to whatever's second.

Why do you think Silver's town? Why do you think cooked versus raw apples matters. I like mine raw but why.

Trial didn't go but still out today.

Why do you think Silver's town? Why do you think cooked versus raw apples matters. I like mine raw but why.

Trial didn't go but still out today.

But it clearly states Alignment could change. How is that misleading!?
I do agree play as #2, but that doesn't change the fact.

Silver is town becuase the only other time i saw her like this emotional was when she was town.

becuase raw apples are dah bomb and cooked apples are for scum.

-2

I have only one other game with Silver and they were scum and got so emotional they had to replace out. Titus came to the rescue for her mental and replaced in.
Emotion isn't alignment indicative with SW from what I can tell.

How did you miss this post in your reread?
It's literally on THIS PAGE!
Are you sure you read back?

I skipped the silverwall

I suppose that explains it.

[Aristophanes]

Fixed...

TITUS: do you like papaya? how do you like it prepared?

What even!?
Oh wait...
Nah, I might vote for you. What is this shit??

@Head 2, Cults are explicitly excluded.

@Ari, if you're alignment is in your role pm, it wouldn't change, just the win condition. Saying alignment change is deceptive. Even then, it's best just to play to whatever's second.

Why do you think Silver's town? Why do you think cooked versus raw apples matters. I like mine raw but why.

Trial didn't go but still out today.

But it clearly states Alignment could change. How is that misleading!?
I do agree play as #2, but that doesn't change the fact.

Silver is town becuase the only other time i saw her like this emotional was when she was town.

Why do you think Silver's town? Why do you think cooked versus raw apples matters. I like mine raw but why.

Trial didn't go but still out today.

becuase raw apples are dah bomb and cooked apples are for scum.

-2

I have only one other game with Silver and they were scum and got so emotional they had to replace out. Titus came to the rescue for her mental and replaced in.
Emotion isn't alignment indicative with SW from what I can tell.

How did you miss this post in your reread?
It's literally on THIS PAGE!
Are you sure you read back?

I skipped the silverwall

I suppose that explains it.

[GuiltyLion]

I was merely pointing out logic.

In 34, SilverWolf (as Inquisitor) states that Titus is overreaching to an RVS vote. I don't believe this is trying to bring the game back into RVS, if anything, it is continuing forward as it generates more discussion. But then Titus says in 37 that SilverWolf is "crawling" back to RVS, an aggressive and loaded remark to generate a response. And then you say:

Since Inquisition seems to be trying to pull us back to RVS as well as being defensive for no reason.

That's not logic, that's just sheeping a loaded accusation from Titus.

You don't have to explicitly say things in order for then to be inferred. But I can see you aren't too good at realizing these nuances. This is also what basically happened with the SK business. Whether you said it or not, there was a mention of an SK brought into play in referencing that game.

So here you're saying SilverWolf is

bad at seeing/understanding inferences

- a subjective evaluation - and then accusing her of being scummy for introducing the idea of an SK.

I really don't follow the "logic" here at all, which is why my vote is on you.

As for the over-effort by Rob13, I don't think it's necessarily alignment-indicative, but his first real post 81 is a lot of summary rather than push. Then what I didn't like was that he FoS'd Titus for the "us" line, asked a great question in 127, but then moved his FoS to Prolapsed_Brain without a real answer from Titus to 127. On the surface it looks like scumhunting but I'm wary that he could be just poking around to build towncred. Regardless, he's more likely town than not based on his effort and probability, so I like my vote on you better.

P-EDIT: whoa that was a lot of activity since I started this post, will comment further in a bit.

[Titus]

@Ari, if the alignment change us triggered in the pm, then it's not a change.

In situation A, your wincon is as follows
Situation B, this is your wincon...

That's not an alignment change...

[Aristophanes]

@Ari, if the alignment change us triggered in the pm, then it's not a change.

In situation A, your wincon is as follows
Situation B, this is your wincon...

That's not an alignment change...

Could be town who is recruitable to the scum team. Under certain circumstances (say, attempted NK or actual recruiting role), they would change from town to scum. I've seen it before.

That would be a full alignment change, would it not?

It would also help counterbalance a potential SK by the way...

[GuiltyLion]

Trying too hard? That's utter shit. Applying that to Rob when he's asking questions and not to sw is wtf. Your Ari attack also makes no sense if SW is null.

Why do you think pistachi0n's vote is on Rob then? You don't see how scum would benefit from looking town in the beginning of the game when it's easiest to 'scumhunt'? I didn't see a reason for Prolapsed_Brain to draw fire from Rob13 this early in the game. It's an easy push to make and feels like probing for the sake of probing, rather than probing with results in mind.

[Titus]

Didn't I teach you a lot about how SK and scum are different in the Halloween game?

Second, SKs aren't relevant here.

VOTE: SilverWolf

No sympathy from me, you're better than this.

At the time you made it, was this an RVS vote or a serious/semi-serious vote? If it was serious, can you explain why you found this scummy?

Serious. I thought SW mentioning things that did not exist as her RVS was scummy, especially when it required conflating SK and scum.

[Titus]

@Ari, if the alignment change us triggered in the pm, then it's not a change.

In situation A, your wincon is as follows
Situation B, this is your wincon...

That's not an alignment change...

Could be town who is recruitable to the scum team. Under certain circumstances (say, attempted NK or actual recruiting role), they would change from town to scum. I've seen it before.

That would be a full alignment change, would it not?

It would also help counterbalance a potential SK by the way...

No. It would not be an alignment change if detailed.

Unlikely, because then either the mod lied in calling a recruit able traitor town or there's not enough scum for an SK.

[Titus]

Trying too hard? That's utter shit. Applying that to Rob when he's asking questions and not to sw is wtf. Your Ari attack also makes no sense if SW is null.

Why do you think pistachi0n's vote is on Rob then? You don't see how scum would benefit from looking town in the beginning of the game when it's easiest to 'scumhunt'? I didn't see a reason for Prolapsed_Brain to draw fire from Rob13 this early in the game. It's an easy push to make and feels like probing for the sake of probing, rather than probing with results in mind.

1. RVS
2. Yes I do. Don't see the relevance to Rob in particular and that can be used to weaken any townreads that you don't like.
3. I don't think PB was trying to draw fire from anyone.

[Rob14]

SW vs Titus - Titus seems to manipulating/inferring a lot from SW's posts to provoke a reaction. Leaning town because it's extremely aggressive and succeeding in getting a response from SW. SW is overdefensive but frustration at being scumread for stupid reasons comes from either alignment, so still null on her for now.

I like where Vedith and pistachi0n are at. Rob13 is efforting a bit too much this early in the game but I will have to meta this weekend to see if that's normal for him.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Aristophanes. Standing on the sidelines and sheeping Titus, fueling the flames of an unproductive and petty argument. We already have one person getting under SilverWolf's skin and using it to paint her as scummy, we don't need two.

You're welcome to check, but FYI, I haven't played a game in around a year, maybe more. My meta is probably stale by now.

[Rob14]

It's an easy push to make and feels like probing for the sake of probing, rather than probing with results in mind.

From a more theoretical standpoint than practical for this game, you have this backward. Scum probes with results in mind, because they already know who is and isn't town. Town probes to see who squirms, and then they go for the results.

[Rob14]

Didn't I teach you a lot about how SK and scum are different in the Halloween game?

Second, SKs aren't relevant here.

VOTE: SilverWolf

No sympathy from me, you're better than this.

At the time you made it, was this an RVS vote or a serious/semi-serious vote? If it was serious, can you explain why you found this scummy?

Serious. I thought SW mentioning things that did not exist as her RVS was scummy, especially when it required conflating SK and scum.

But how is that scummy? Why would scum choose to say you were scum in the last game in the joke stage? Where's the motivation?

[Rob14]

I did some reflecting for a bit on my past play now that I'm a ways removed from it and re-read a few of my past town games. I think I have a confirmation bias toward people who are more active. As they post more, they're more likely to say something that doesn't sit right with me and that leads me to go after people simply because they're bound to say something off if they're posting a lot. I'm saying this because, upon further thought, I don't know if my read on Titus is an example of that. I don't

think

it is, but idk. My take-away from my self-meta is that I need to more actively look for town tells and more heavily weigh them against any scum tells in determining my reads, since just looking at volume of scum tells isn't much better than rolling a pair of die, probably.

[Rob14]

That last sentence was more for my own use/record than it was for this game, by the way.

[GuiltyLion]

2. Don't see the relevance to Rob in particular and that can be used to weaken any townreads that you don't like.

Yup, agreed. I think I'm generally shit at my D1 reads and therefore I don't trust them, especially if I get the sense that someone is trying to get people to townread them.

3. I don't think PB was trying to draw fire from anyone.

Maybe this is a miscommunication, I was saying I didn't understand why Rob13 suddenly decided to focus Prolapsed_Brain for making empty posts when the game's only been open for less than 2 days. There are players who hadn't/haven't posted yet, it feels like a directionless push. Could come from town or scum, all I'm saying is that I'm not gonna townlean him for it.

From a more theoretical standpoint than practical for this game, you have this backward. Scum probes with results in mind, because they already know who is and isn't town. Town probes to see who squirms, and then they go for the results.

Sure, but how is Titus gonna squirm when you drop your vote from her and go after a weaker target instead?

[Rob14]

Titus has had their pressure and reacted as much as they were going to, in my opinion. As I already explained a while back, empty posts are 1000x worse than no posts in early Day 1. I mean, come on, P_B came right out and said things like:

Wow, drama. Let me know when it's over.

Let's not analyze the reactions; let's just skip it due to "drama". Hint: If you define drama as two people arguing, all of Mafia is drama.

You want an end to drama, we can agree to Unvote for 48 hours and not to mention each other as scum (but have it presumed unless noted), we scumhunt other people. That would reduce the drama for all without forcing me to be fake in my reads.

Hahahaha sorry, this just made me laugh (literally) out loud. It's like two people in a relationship saying "Let's take a break for a while. We'll see other people, and we'll check back in after a month or so."

Sorry. I do have a pretty warped sense of humor. Carry on. (However, if these two are scum together, I would not be shocked. It's too much like coaching.)

I'll just claim my credit for posting, but you guys keep doing your thing. There's no content in this post, and it was well after RVS.

Also, why are you not calling out those lesser-active? At least I'm posting. O_o

Then, when I did start calling them out on their emptiness, they actively tried to claim the "hey, I'm posting!" credit.

Not a single post from P_B has shown any desire to find scum. It's shown a desire to sit back, eat some popcorn, and stay alive. That's scum, through and through. This is a much stronger read than Titus ever was.

[Titus]

@Rob, There was content in the middle post. The accusation I may have been coaching SW is content.

Also, there are two reasons to stick back as town. The first is anti-town to refresh you on but maybe you'll power through the logic and figure it out. The second, you've mentioned it and so is Ari. Active people are more likely to get scumread.

[Titus]

Didn't I teach you a lot about how SK and scum are different in the Halloween game?

Second, SKs aren't relevant here.

VOTE: SilverWolf

No sympathy from me, you're better than this.

At the time you made it, was this an RVS vote or a serious/semi-serious vote? If it was serious, can you explain why you found this scummy?

Serious. I thought SW mentioning things that did not exist as her RVS was scummy, especially when it required conflating SK and scum.

But how is that scummy? Why would scum choose to say you were scum in the last game in the joke stage? Where's the motivation?

Fear mongering. Making people fear town is good for scum. Second, psychological parallels are good to plant.

If you want someone to be associated with being scum, mention their name next to scum a lot.

[20x100]

Well head 2 has gotten carried away, reading up.
Bet seriously, how do you like your papayas?
~1

[20x100]

Ffs
VOTE: Titus
~1