Mini 1727: Legends of the Hidden Temple II - Game Over!

[Davsto]

First

second dammit fire

THIRD GDI SHIRO

dammit I give up with this.

Now I must sleep but first

VOTE: Salamence pre-emptively, knowing that he will use Gambler's Fallacy at some point in this game.

[Davsto]

So I wake up and there's already been a challenge

and

a use of Gambler's Fallacy.

Disappointed.

Now, I'll make sure to give PB kicks up the arse in Blue Barracudas thread so he doesn't lurk.

However, the big question is this: is Firebringer reckless town, or scum hiding in Refuge in Audacity?

Say he's scum, and he knows who else is scum. Who's to say he didn't make that challenge so that he's the only scum in the four? That gives him pretty good odds for scum not being lynched, as well as being town read for recklessness.

Needless to say, I'm really wary.

[Davsto]

That is absolutely terrible maths, and I feel you should be lynched just for that.

[Davsto]

That is absolutely terrible maths, and I feel you should be lynched just for that.

lol Policy Lynch based on math.

To be fair that was a joke.

[Davsto]

I'm also not gonna bother working out that chance that one of the people in the four is scum, because frankly it's stupid since knowing the chance of there being a scum there is completely useless to us; what is more useful is the knowledge of

who

that scum is.

[Davsto]

Seriously, what the hell is with the FB focus and votes?

Although FB would have challenged regardless of role, he would not have done it so quick as scum, he would have got a feel for who was a weaker link to go for and go from there. Putting 2 people who have not posted is not going for the weak link and it's obvious that this would be argued.

BBmolla gets scum vibes from his partner then votes FB? Of did the opinion change after it was stated as a joke?

Okay so I gave PB a kick in the private thread but they still haven't said anything so I'm kinda miffed.

This 1v1 between Sala and Titus is about as useful as a chocolate teapot because neither of them can be lynched today so stop arguing and find the scum in the four (if there is one).

I'm tired because of school so I read through and didn't gather much apart from Sala being shouty and Titus being shouty and both of these are basically null-tells for these players as far as I know.

My bet (and my vote) is going on Vedith for now, I'm not liking it, something's a bit off. He seems to be using his experience with FB and the fact that they're a team to buddy like mad, and I don't like that.

VOTE: Vedith

[Davsto]

I'm voting Vedith because I think he's scummier. I don't really care if you get it or not.

I'm not seeing FB as scummy. The kind of player he is, that manoeuvre is basically null, and I don't see anything beyond that that's actually scummy.

[Davsto]

I'm unsure enough at the moment to start screaming that I am the one truth and that my wagon is the true wagon. I'd like to analyse and dig deeper before I start to become that certain.

Convincing people to hop on a wagon and have everyone focus on one player I'm not sure about is incredibly anti-town; from my point of view it's better to let people do their stuff so that we can get as much info from as many people as possible.

[Davsto]

@Dave, Differing approaches. To me, pushing reveals alignment.

I agree, it does. But for all I know you could be onto something just as much as I could, and dissuading you from pushing yours in favour of mine could turn out badly.

[Davsto]

gdi Shiro

Stop drawing because I already entered one for a Scummy :c

Also stop drawing/PSing because you make me jealous.

[Davsto]

@Dave, OK, but what is yours? There's a difference between not dominating and not speaking up.

Problem is it's more a hunch than anything else.
Posts like these:

I follow FB! Partners that stick together win together.

Read nastily, and potentially scum buddying to a town using both past game knowledge and friendship and the fact that they're partners in this game to his advantage.

Usually I wouldn't vote on such a hunch, but when a game is based purely on reads and no PRs, I have to work with what little I have.

[Davsto]

But that's the thing. From my experience, town!Vedith doesn't sound forced - he sounds natural. Ridiculous? Yes. Cheeky? Yes. Forced? Not in my experience.

[Davsto]

Anyone else here think Sal's response is weird?

No.

[Davsto]

It kind of annoys me that they have opted to ignore the game when they are part of the lynchpool yea


Then he comes with this nothingness post

Somehow Shiro has read my mind.

I was too busy finding a stupid Beetlejuice gif to notice sadly

Spoiler: 2spoopy

[Davsto]

Oh hey MS!

[Davsto]

Still unsure about Vyse, but he's definitely not the lynch for today. Vedith really hasn't said much. Often he's the driving force of activity, interrogating people and the like, but he doesn't seem to have been anywhere near as active as that.

[Davsto]

[Davsto]

aww

here you go, fixed hopefully, put them on Imgur rather than hotlinking...

[Davsto]

I don't know about you because I'm not sure, as in, I haven't got a solid enough read on you yet.

As for Vedith, various other things I don't like, but his activity level is just another thing that's a bit off. It's like he knows he's in the firing line and hopes that he can hide behind the others in the 4 that can be lynched today.

[Davsto]

I am going to be extremely mad if the total lynch pool is Town. >.>

You do realise you made said lynch pool?

[Davsto]

Like, just your thoughts in general, even if they don't go anywhere yet? I don't blame you for not having solid thoughts on me, but there's enough there for you to go "Well, this post makes me think this." "I agree/disagree with this point here", etc. Can you do some of that? Like I said, I'm trying to get a feel for you, so help would be cool.

Okay I'm gonna be honest here I woke up waaaayyy too early this morning so I'm really damn tired, I've managed to sorta fake being vaguely coherent but I've been staying out of this game today because there's no PRs or anything so it's all reads based and bleh, I'll get back to you on this tomorrow after I've had a good night's sleep. Sorrrrryyyyy

[Davsto]

For the record, when I "get back to it" tomorrow I'm also gonna reread the entire game.

I'm gonna apologise again for waking up at 5AM and not going back to sleep, after having gone to sleep that night at midnight.

I am a butt.

[Davsto]

[Davsto]

Elbirn, you is a funny dude.
I will give you a callback to something you said earlier:
"Maybe one game we will be on the same team together [Name Retraced]"

Retraced? Like, drawn over again?

[Davsto]

Well we gots to lynch someone, though.

[Davsto]

@Davsto I never learned to proofread my posts. Will you teach me?

Nah, it's fine, no-one cares as long as they can tell what you mean. Of course, if you manage to do it in a way that massively fucks up quote walls (oops) then it's a problem.

[Davsto]

My vote is staying on Vedith. He's the least likely to be town of all of them, in my view.

[Davsto]

tfw you have to say "least likely to be town" rather than "most likely to be scum" because there's a chance that no-one we can lynch is scum

[Davsto]

So you're honestly suggesting that Firebringer purposefully made it so that 50% of the lynch pool on the first day was scum? Yeh, bollocks.

[Davsto]

But instantly challenging creates chaos on its own. If Fire were scum, he would make the rest of the lynch pool all town. The number of town/scum in the pool doesn't affect the chaos.

Fire isn't stupid. He wouldn't put any more scum on the line than himself when pulling off a manoeuvre like that as scum.

[Davsto]

And if FB gets lynched, all the other three would be presumed town. It clears BB then. If he challenges an all town pool, there's a decent chance he's lynched. If that happens, the game is practically gg for town at that point.

But Fire isn't stupid. He wouldn't basically risk a good chance (50% or over) on the first day for scum to be lynched in the offchance that they lynch him and possibly assume the rest is town based upon it, not in a game without nightkills where all the kills have to be lynches.

[Davsto]

That's the reason scum FB cannot go with an all town pool. It's not a low chance to lynch 1/4 when the rest of the town cannot be floated as mislynches.

Still presuming you think FB scum, let's lynch him and get the flip. We can talk more about who FB is scum with after confirmation.

But I'm not sold on FB being scum. Only thing I've seen against him is this whole thing, and I can see Fire!town thinking that it's a good idea for the sake of starting discussion. I've played with Firebringer, he's the reckless type.

[Davsto]

That's the reason scum FB cannot go with an all town pool. It's not a low chance to lynch 1/4 when the rest of the town cannot be floated as mislynches.

Still presuming you think FB scum, let's lynch him and get the flip. We can talk more about who FB is scum with after confirmation.

But I'm not sold on FB being scum. Only thing I've seen against him is this whole thing, and I can see Fire!town thinking that it's a good idea for the sake of starting discussion. I've played with Firebringer, he's the reckless type.

The way I see it is, just cause he was the one who had the balls to pull off such a reckless move doesn't make him town. Any one of us could have done that same exact move, for the exact same reasons as him. I would still think said person is scummy.

I'm not townreading him for it. I'm not scumreading him for it. It's a null tell, and basing a lynch off a null tell is a bad idea.

Titus, explain why you think Firebringer is scum and should be lynched?

[Davsto]

Because I'm not convinced, but I might be.

[Davsto]

inb4 Firebringer lolhammers

PEdit - inconsistency =/= scum. I've played enough games to know that town sometimes slip up, or they have more than one motivation to do something. Scum try hard to stay consistent. Fire!scum would have come up with a reason for it and stuck to it because scum!Fire would know that inconsistency is a big problem. Town!Fire couldn't give a flying arse what people think of him and this is looking like that Fire.

[Davsto]

Titus is scum for discrediting my reads

Metal's read. Titus is scum. No reason.

Titus disagrees with my scumread on her, must be scum.

Okay so when Firebringer tries to discredit a read on you, he's scummy, but you do it to Metal Sonic all fine-like?

Also, if your point is that "FB doesn't seem paranoid of the townreads by Vedith", Vedith doesn't look particularly paranoid about Firebringer not having scumread him as far as I can see. Doesn't that make him scum too?

FTR, at this point I'm tempted by a Titus lynch tomorrow.

[Davsto]

Yeh, I'm still leaning town on Fire, especially after that.

[Davsto]

For the record, my preferred lynch tomorrow would probably be one of Titus or Prolapsed Brain. Considering challenging tomorrow to make that possible

Molla seems like the vote for today but I don't like it. Gonna keep my vote on Vedith - my preference.

[Davsto]

Dav has PB done anything in your PT?

Basically nothing. Largely frustration and two unexplained reads. I'll leave PB to explain those themselves.

[Davsto]

Yeh, that's why I'm happy for them to be lynched tomorrow. I won't lose the communication I get from our Private Topic because there isn't any communication in our Private Topic.

[Davsto]

I'm not voting BB. I'm not seeing them as scum over Vedith. I know Vedith.

[Davsto]

I am not sure if I did here or in PT

I don't get the scumread. Sala V Titus seemed TvT to me so nullish town

If Shiro flips scum one of them is probably scum. Scum love to say "eh I think it was TvT" with little reason so that they have an excuse.

I mean I think Titus is scum anyway but ya know~

[Davsto]

This isn't an associative tell ahead of time. It's more noting down a post so that I can remember it. Currently, that read means fuckall to me.

If you flip town, it'll mean nothing, irrelevant to the case at hand.

[Davsto]

TvT = Town versus Town. If there's quite a notable discussion/argument/discourse/conflict etc between two players, it'll be referred to as a (something)v(something). TvS, SvS, TvT, whatever.

[Davsto]

He said:
Dave feels off because he is not scum hunting and going with flow.

Titus is scum because hisn't as abrupt as normal for her.

Elbirn would make sense as scum and he doesn't care who goes. I think he just doesn't want to be on any of the wagons for lynching a townie

PB is a easy push target for scum and I don't agree for voting someone for lurking alone----[THIS IS HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS]

MS is quiet.

Suzune I get a weird feeling from.

Vyse and you (Firebringer) are both town.

I don't remember who said it but the thought of Molla and you (Firebringer) being scum is ridiculous.

I didn't like Molla self vote comment. You play with Molla? Does he normally make threats like this?

Thats a lose paraphrase of what he said.

Fire is town for that hammer.

My partner, PB, is still nowhere to be seen, and Vedith's comments about him in the private thread worry me even more.

Kaito seems questionable. I'm fine with sheeping Molla.

VOTE: Kaito

[Davsto]

By the way, tomorrow I'd like to be the one to give/receive the challenge. We need Prolapsed lynched because he is doing literally nothing. Having him alive at lylo would screw us over so bad.

[Davsto]

By the way, tomorrow I'd like to be the one to give/receive the challenge. We need Prolapsed lynched because he is doing literally nothing. Having him alive at lylo would screw us over so bad.

Since I read you as one of the towniest people so far who do you think are the last 3 scum and why?

Noooo! Not readlists!

Kaito, Titus, Prolapsed Brain.

Titus is the weakest of those.

Not sure who the last would be if any of them flipped town; potentially one of Shiro or Metal (?). I'm gonna have to start paying more attention. I've been a bit off recently (tiredness and IRL shit), but I've recovered and am less asiudhsdufh so my play should be back to good standards. I'll probably have a good idea on the last one once we've lynched Kaito+PB.

[Davsto]

Reason I'm leaning Titus!scum is because she said of the possibility of Firebringer "not being town just because there's scum in the pool". At the time, Vedith was a popular lynch target - there's a chance enough that she knew that Vedith would be lynched and flip town, and was preparing to set up Firebringer for a lynch if Vedith flipped scum. It's silly, I know, but I remember it being a bit odd at the time. Now I can see a potential scum motivation for it.

[Davsto]

By the way, tomorrow I'd like to be the one to give/receive the challenge. We need Prolapsed lynched because he is doing literally nothing. Having him alive at lylo would screw us over so bad.

Since I read you as one of the towniest people so far who do you think are the last 3 scum and why?

Noooo! Not readlists!

Kaito, Titus, Prolapsed Brain.

Titus is the weakest of those.

Not sure who the last would be if any of them flipped town; potentially one of Shiro or Metal (?). I'm gonna have to start paying more attention. I've been a bit off recently (tiredness and IRL shit), but I've recovered and am less asiudhsdufh so my play should be back to good standards. I'll probably have a good idea on the last one once we've lynched Kaito+PB.

Other than the fact that PB is lurking why do you suspect him? Cause too me he's floating between Null/scum mainly null tho. That's also if I geet lynched since won't really give you the information your looking for.

Vedith apparently defended Prolapsed's lynch in his and Firebringer's PT. That worries me. Lurking alone I wouldn't read him as super scummy for (although the extent to which he's doing it is ew).

[Davsto]

Reason I'm leaning Titus!scum is because she said of the possibility of Firebringer "not being town just because there's scum in the pool". At the time, Vedith was a popular lynch target - there's a chance enough that she knew that Vedith would be lynched and flip town, and was preparing to set up Firebringer for a lynch if Vedith flipped scum. It's silly, I know, but I remember it being a bit odd at the time. Now I can see a potential scum motivation for it.

Davsto this doesn't make sense.....

If Titus was scum she would know Vedith was going to flip scum...wait. Your just not making sense, in next sentence you say she knew he was flipping Scum.

Are you saying because I wouldn't push Vedith the first time he got to L-1 she would pressure me on that?

Nononono.

She was trying to say that you could be scum, saying that whole thing about "if there are scum in the pool it doesn't mean Fire is town" before anyone had flipped in it (and whilst the Vedith wagon was at a high if I remember correctly). I remember noting briefly that someone thinking that you'd be stupid enough to put a 50% or more chance of scum being lynched on the first day if you were scum was odd, but now Vedith has flipped scum it is quite notable as preparing for the inevitable townread on you.

I'm bad at explaining, dammit.

PEdit: wait did I say she knew Vedith would flip town? I meant she knew she'd flip scum. Dammit. Sorry >.<

[Davsto]

Elbrin if you were scum with PB as he is now. Would you defend him ?

Yeah, I'd defend the fuck out of him, and I'd use my meta of defending lynchbait to wave off any accusations of me defending a team mate after his inevitable flip.

like I am laughing right now because this is litteraly what is happening XD

Oh wait nvm vedith defended pb, lol fuck him

[Davsto]

I am not liking Elbrin's recent posting. On one hand, he's complaining about PB being unable to be read because he can't talk to PB, but on the their hand he's questioning people who want to lynch him for not being here. The two goals he's stating are contradictory. I'd rather watch PB like a hawk and get a replacement if he misses deadlines to allow reads to form on his slot.

Hey, Titus, lookie here

Oh wait nvm vedith defended pb, lol fuck him

pretty obvious he's gone that "scum defending him, oh shit". That's why he's fine with a PB lynch.

[Davsto]

@Davsto

Hey Davsto

Spoiler: big image ew

Spoiler: spooky scary skeletons

[Davsto]

Hey I'm hosting Pun Mafia not you don't steal my thunder.

It's a trumpet, obviously.

[Davsto]

no it's the xylobone

[Davsto]

Just scribble it out. Works when I have an unwanted family member/friend/ex in a photo I wish to remove from a photo.

[Davsto]

Hmm I need a new avi

Let's go Colin-o!

[Davsto]

[Davsto]

this is definitely going to be one of those times where the mod is mia for like 12 hours isnt it

I know the solution....


PAAARRRTTTYYYYYY

[Davsto]

Nah, I prefer the ending in Mafia Café (see my wiki). Town - Johnny and fitz, Scum - Aristophanes.

Ari hammered Johnny, and kept discussing with him until the flip, whilst pretending to be town, and pretending that fitz was the scum.

THEN

the person that Ari replaced, RadiantCowbells, carried on in the game, discussing with Aristophanes how they "should have known that fitz was scum".

[Davsto]

Nah, I prefer the ending in Mafia Café (see my wiki). Town - Johnny and fitz, Scum - Aristophanes.

Ari hammered Johnny, and kept discussing with him until the flip, whilst pretending to be town, and pretending that fitz was the scum.

THEN

the person that Ari replaced, RadiantCowbells, carried on in the game, discussing with Aristophanes how they "should have known that fitz was scum".

Way to kill my buzz...

What have bees got to do with this?

[Davsto]

Dammit Shiro don't say that, that's what you said last time you were scum!

[Davsto]

But seriously, I'd like Prolapsed lynched tomorrow. I'd rather have the people who might actually contribute until they get lynched to die later, since that gives us more to go off on the following days in the case of an unexpected lynch.

[Davsto]

*unexpected flip

that's what I meant

[Davsto]

Chances are I'm not going to be considering Shiro!scum unless several of our reads go balls-up.

[Davsto]

I'm fine with a challenge that puts PB in the firing line. Would rather that Titus' team was the other party over Shiro and Sonic, but I'm not planning on going for anyone other than PB unless he comes in supertowny or something.

[Davsto]

Definitely worth considering.

My plan since Kaito flipped scum is any L minus 1 read puts forth the challenge for the next day. If we mislynch, we follow the townies challenge. If scum, the L minus 1 forces associations or claiming scum.

Right now, I want Sonic to actually fucking answer my questions. I could go for a Sonic v PB challenge. That or a Sonic v Vyse challenge. PB does have a point on the votes there.

I'm meh with this. Having a proper, mechanical strategy over just challenging with town consensus allows scum to potentially control challenges to their advantage.

PEdit fair enough.

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain
Wagon ho!

[Davsto]

Wait no I misread it massively, I thought you meant the person who put the last person at L-1 chooses (shh)

But regardless I'll doubt it'll work in the scum case because it'll just be WIFOM; since they know we'll be basing the next day's challenge off their choice, they'll be as tricksy as possible with it.

[Davsto]

Hey davsto do you know how I know you are town?

Last game we were opposing sides so this time chances are we are togehter

Do you want me to reject your pre-in to Pun Mafia? >:c

[Davsto]

I'm aware you are, Shiro. I was messing too

Firebringer oh dear why XD

[Davsto]

Shit it's 11PM I need slep vroom

Also Firebringer, how about you pre-in to Pun Mafia with that shiny new alt of yours? Wouldn't want it to go to waste

PEdit - looks, town right now are at 8:2 Town:Mafia in a nightless setup. What makes you think that at that point we'll never consider Sonic?

[Davsto]

*at some point

[Davsto]

Also, I have one or two teeny tiny things PB has said that may be associatives. Would rather not reveal until the flip though, because I don't want people getting all confbiasy on me.

Anyway ACTUAL SLEEP.

PEdit - no hydrae in Normals, Sorry FB.

[Davsto]

Since Metal and Titus seem intent on having a 1v1, I see no reasons why those two teams shouldn't target each other.

PB did fuckall and I don't feel bad for mislynching him.

[Davsto]

EBWOP: two teams shouldn't challenge each other.

[Davsto]

Okay so Metal and Titus seem to be 1v1ing but only one of them is in the lynchpool. This is irritating and stupid.

[Davsto]

Like, it's a 1v1 where they are both aware that only one of them can actually be lynch. I say that, if Titus really wants to 1v1 Metal Sonic, she should have had some guts and challenged him herself.

[Davsto]

VOTE: metal sonic

Dav who cares, who realistically is going to vote Titus over MS

I mean I've been considering Titus scum

anyway

VOTE: Metal Sonic wagons are awesome.

[Davsto]

Like getting a shark on the end of a fishing rod, that was a nice catch, Shiro.

[Davsto]

Sonic needs to be lynched because he's been coming off the wrong way. The whole "I give up because basically confirmed win" reads more as "I'm scum, I'm screwed, why should I bother?" than "I'm town, we're gonna win for certain so fuck doing anything."

Vyse has no noticeable place in my mind which means he's been slipping under my radar. I'll read through his stuff once Metal flips.

[Davsto]

I disagree with the inclusion of Titus on that list. I'm still getting slightly questionable vibes from her. That's only really something if you've lynched basically everyone who isn't in the list and there is still scum left, though.

[Davsto]

I'm not agreeing, I'm saying that Titus is probably scum. Prolapsed Brain thought that one of Titus/Sala(now Metal) was probably scum. I have some trust in him, now he's flipped town.

For the record, that was also the only read he's given in the Barracuda base, which is kinda sad.

[Davsto]

We need to decide what order to lynch in, for a start.

[Davsto]

No, that post is true as hell. There has to be an order to lynch in, we can't just lynch everyone at once.

[Davsto]

I'll suggest

Suzune > Me > Shiro > Vyse

(I mean you can put me first if you really want but ya know, I know I'm not scum.)
In this order, we lose only if both Vyse

and

one of the townbloc are scum, a situation I find improbable.

And, if you do get down to the townbloc with there still being one scum left, I'd go

Titus > Elbirn

For the last two.

[Davsto]

For those of you curious, that order means that we only lose if

both scum

are in the townbloc (scrap the vyse+townbloc thing I was wrong with that) or if

one of the scum

is in Firebringer/BBMolla.

[Davsto]

VOTE: Suzune

Let's hope my strategy works.

Hope.

[Davsto]

This isn't a mechanical strategy, this is basic process of elimination. Unless there are two scum in the townbloc of Titus/Elbirn/Fire/BBMolla (which is hysterically unlikely), lynching Suz/Me/Shiro/Vyse will get one scum. At which point, if there is still one left, it won't be too hard a job to find the scum in the last four.

Fact is, consensus has agreed with the townbloc and lynching the people outside it first. Thus, I am okay with said strategy. This isn't "okay this one person we lynch chooses the next challenge", this is "the majority have agreed there is most likely a scum in this group, so we get a scum with this, potentially two".

[Davsto]

Problem with Shiro: she behaves silly and cutesy regardless of alignment.

[Davsto]

Am I going to be shouted down if I suggest that suzune and shiro are highly unlikely to be partners at least?

Duh

[Davsto]

As in - it's bloody obvious.

[Davsto]

UNVOTE:

Ugh

really unsure which (if any) is scum. Will ISO Vedith and Kaito to see what I can see.

[Davsto]

Well, I still think that challenging so early is more likely to come from town FB. I think that it was town motivated originally, but just not the best option.
I think he's getting frustrated now as he knows that it wasn't the best out come of people in the lynch pool, but people keep complaining as if it will change it.
Even if there was no challenge early, we might have been in the same situation.

As I said, I'm thinking town on all, but yeah it is good and I think that tomorrows targets will be a lot easier to go with as it's a lot more organised.

My 4 least town people so far are Elbirn, Titus, Shiro and Dav.

I'm also concerned over you, but not to a point where you are favorite.
Still convinced that the Sala (MS) and Titus debate seemed fake, but I'm not sure where to go with that with Sala replacing out.

Knowing typical scum tactics, there's a good chance that one of these is scum. Most notably, it conflicts with here too...

What strikes me here is that Sala is treating this like a FB or Vedith only lynch and completely tunneling.
I'm not sure what problem is me working with my team mate. Just because you lot don't trust yours doesn't mean I can't trust mine.
Sala Titus seems faked and planned. The whole "I'm going for you tomorrow" is so bad, and Sala is just an insulting play mood, to give the passionate town look?
And going back to your reads Sala, if you found the scum, why would it not just be a list of town and a list of scum?

Anyone reading VysePresident as town?

Same for BBMolla?

If so, reasons?

Btw - I'm not going to be on site wide shortly after this for the night. Read into lack of responses as you wish.

Where he certainly implies scumreading Vyse, as well as having his vote on him for a rather long period of time.
But this is irrelevant. There doesn't seem to be any notable ties to Shiro/Suzune.

BUT

Suzune is mentioned twice in Vedith's ISO. Twice. That's a very small number. In my experience, scum like to ignore their partners to avoid associative tells gained from scumreading/townreading them. I'm not sure on this, though..?

Now Kaito.

He addressed both Shiro and Suzune at different points. However, all of his Suzune interactions were silly, very rarely had substance to them. Shiro's interactions, at least later on, were actually fairly serious, discussing, whatever.

Personally, I'm leaning towards Suzune, right now.
VOTE: Suzune

[Davsto]

I'm really disappointed. I was going into that with the mentality of "man we better find some cool shit in here" but really there wasn't that much to go on dammit, makes me even more worried about the chance of both Shiro and Suz being town.

[Davsto]

As stated already. Why would a scum challenge another team with scum in? That would give it more or less a 50% chance of a town lynch.
My bet is, if FB is scum then both Molla and Vyse are town.

This is a fair point. A very fair point. I see no reason for scum to challenge another scum team. Unless they were both really confident of their manipulation skills.

Well, shit, we gotta lynch one of these two. I'm gonna say Suzune, honestly.

[Davsto]

Second, the whole just murder everyone to reach the townbloc is stupid. Doubly so if it's get to the townbloc and then murder Titus. It's nothing but throwing shade in my direction. It wouldn't even work possibly. There's 4 in the townbloc. Lylo can be reached at 5 players.

Yo, this is incredibly wrong. If there are two scum in the townbloc, neither of them are me, so your supposed theory is rubbish.

Shiro, That's wrong. If Dave's partner is FB, Molla or Elbrin, he's allowed his partner to coast and only need to fool one person. (Remember, I am first mislynched). That's a great position for scum. And if scum is FB, well if you we're in Lylo gg.

It's easy to fool one person all the time, some people all the time but all the people cannot be fooled all the time.

Okay, this is even fucking worse. At this point, I have already been lynched. Do you really think that town would continue to follow my plan if I had flipped scum at that point? This argument is preposterous.

[Davsto]

Second, the whole just murder everyone to reach the townbloc is stupid. Doubly so if it's get to the townbloc and then murder Titus. It's nothing but throwing shade in my direction. It wouldn't even work possibly. There's 4 in the townbloc. Lylo can be reached at 5 players.

Yo, this is incredibly wrong. If there are two scum in the townbloc, neither of them are me, so your supposed theory is rubbish.

Shiro, That's wrong. If Dave's partner is FB, Molla or Elbrin, he's allowed his partner to coast and only need to fool one person. (Remember, I am first mislynched). That's a great position for scum. And if scum is FB, well if you we're in Lylo gg.

It's easy to fool one person all the time, some people all the time but all the people cannot be fooled all the time.

Okay, this is even fucking worse. At this point, I have already been lynched. Do you really think that town would continue to follow my plan if I had flipped scum at that point? This argument is preposterous.

Hey, Titus, address this bullshit.

[Davsto]

First off, piss off do you honestly think there are two scum in the conftown bloc? You should be clear to yourself, so you're honestly suggesting you think that

two

out of Elbirn/Fire/BBMolla are scum.

The second point would be an incredibly, incredibly risky manoeuvre for scum!me, since my early lynch would basically make it a coinflip of whether or not our team won. But what you're saying now is completely at odds with your previous point. First it was all

If Dave's partner is FB, Molla or Elbrin, he's allowed his partner to coast and only need to fool one person.

and now you're all

If you're scum, there's no reason to require it to be with or without someone on the pool.

Fuckit, I want a Titus lynch tomorrow.

[Davsto]

This is scum Titus - she's coming out with absolute crap, but with a stance so firm that she hopes no-one will challenge her on it.

[Davsto]

Or, and this may surprise you

I'm goddamn town.

And no, I don't have a Vyse read, and I won't go around goddamn pulling one out of my ass just because you command me to.

[Davsto]

@Dave, It's not a risky maneuver for scum you at all. You get lynched, you put the thread into wifom.

Yes, because WIFOM always works out so well.

You propose this and expect to get townreads for spewing wifom, and knowing my position that no one is ever conftown till flip.

Do you really think I expect townreads when I literally put myself in the lynching order?

You're stating my stance is firm, yet accusing me of flopping.

Nonono, you flop like fuck, but you

act

like it's firm and state everything you say with firmness.

There's two scenarios.

1) Your buddy is in the town pool and will have trouble maintaining the illusion but can fool one player in the town pool as its an easiervtask.

Or

2) Your buddy is not in the town pool so you need us suspected.

It's wifom and stupid.

If it's stupid, don't you think scum!me would have realised? You're not even considering the possibility of me being town and thinking "gosh, this is a good idea!"

Setting a lynch order is scummy. Either way, your plan removes a lot of scumhunting and generates wifom.

Yeh, because look at all the scumhunting we totally haven't been doing whilst deciding between Suzune and Shiro. And look at all the WIFOM that will happen when I flip town.

[Davsto]

Yes, controlled by scum. You do realise I'm the one that chose it right? Thus, it is, as far as I care, controlled by town?

[Davsto]

Something something discrediting, I'll do some goddamn scumhunting for you.

[Davsto]

For example, look at these. This is horrible. Titus has been going "luk sonic is scum" the whole time, but never actually gets the guts to challenge him; she votes him both times when she can't be lynched and thus has no worry about a counterwagon on her.

There has been a challenge! The

Silver Snakes

have challenged the

Green Monkeys

!
The pool of players eligible to be lynched today consists of:

Metal Sonic
Shiro

Kaito Kirishima
Suzune

Here are the current votes:[/color]

Kaito Kirishima (4)

: BBmolla, Metal Sonic, Davsto, Shiro

Metal Sonic (2)

: Elbirn, Titus,

Not Voting (5) - Firebringer, Kaito Kirishima, Prolapsed Brain, Suzune, VysePresident

With 11 players alive, it will take 6 votes to lynch.

There has been a challenge! The

Silver Snakes

have challenged the

Blue Barracudas

!
The pool of players eligible to be lynched today consists of:

Metal Sonic
Shiro

Davsto
Prolapsed Brain

Here are the current votes:

Prolapsed Brain (5)

: Davsto, Firebringer, Shiro, BBmolla, Metal Sonic

Metal Sonic (1)

: Titus,

Not Voting (4) - Prolapsed Brain, Suzune, VysePresident, Elbirn,

With 10 players alive, it will take 6 votes to lynch.

Also, that vote parked on Metal with the PB wagon is super white-knighty and obviously trying to get towncred for not joining the biggest wagon at the time.

[Davsto]

I'm challenging Titus tomorrow, in case you couldn't tell.

[Davsto]

Yes, controlled by scum. You do realise I'm the one that chose it right? Thus, it is, as far as I care, controlled by town?

You submitted a lynch order. No one is going to take your order for shit before you flip. Scum can suggest and change positions in a lynch order.

Even if you are town, you're being dumb as shit right now. As scum, this is an excellent method to flood the thread with garbage.

Well, considering that today's lynch looks to be my suggested Suzune, and that I suggested me being lynched tomorrow, that's not true now, is it?

I'm challenging Titus tomorrow, in case you couldn't tell.

Counter offer

Let me challenge vyse/molla.

Cuz I want vyse dead really bad, and I'd also rather we have some options open other than "kill titus because I Shanghaied thus phase"

Shanghaied?

[Davsto]

Out of the lynch pool, what are your reads?

Alright
Vyse - null, haven't really got a good grip on him
Suzune - decent chance of flipping scum
Shiro - leaning town
Davsto - the towniest towner who ever towned, from my point of view. I even have a PM saying he's town.

[Davsto]

Or, *gasp* I thought Sonic was scum and I was wrong. I wanted answers and was not being a dick to unilaterally take over the game.

You don't want to comment on anyone but me and that's transparent at this point. You're not scumhunting at all. You're refusing direct questions, to actually resolve your stances on players and just attacking who questions you.

See, you say I'm avoiding things, but it's fairly obvious here that you're going after me to avoid commenting on your stance of Suzune/Shiro.

PEdit yeh you're paranoid, you're paranoid that people will follow my order and not doubt me and thus you lose.

[Davsto]

@Dave, That's just shit. I am having trouble sorting Shiro/Suzune and was trying to resolve a perceived conflict between Elbrin's reads and FB's when you proposed this plan.

Well considering you haven't said jack about them all day that's kinda crappy, isn't it?

Because if he was scum he pretty much dooms himself to death and leaves everything to his partner

If one could create a firm platform for their partner to stand on to give them the edge in the game. Why would they not doom themselves?

If I were scum, the moment I flip it leaves everything down to WIFOM. That's about as solid a platform as jelly in a blender.

PEdit nonono, Titus is scum. She's scared that, because my lynching order contains both her and her scum partner, she'll lose.

[Davsto]

Right, so you're scumhunting the pair of them until about the time you actually have to choose between them? Nice.

PEdit @Suzune - but then people go "well, Davsto put Vyse in the lynch order to be lynched, so maybe he isn't scum"? Wifom is absolutely idiotic to use as a tactic.

[Davsto]

D:

There goes what I thought was a masterful reaction test.

I even made certain to say I challenge Suzu instead of the team based on one of the mods comments >.<

I failed

I presume "if it looks like a vote, it is a vote" is applicable when you replace "vote" with "challenge".

[Davsto]

I'm challenging Titus tomorrow, in case you couldn't tell.

Counter offer

Let me challenge vyse/molla.

Cuz I want vyse dead really bad, and I'd also rather we have some options open other than "kill titus because I Shanghaied thus phase"

But basically, nah, I'm not happy with this. If I'm gonna get Titus lynched, I'm gonna get her lynched the proper way, 1v1, classically.

[Davsto]

I'm gonna wait for Vyse's replacement to come in before I start saying anything - you're honestly pinning their scumminess as them not having done anything when they have given a goddamn good reason that you should respect. What you're saying, to me, is that it's scummy to have IRL problems. In which case, that is just

harsh

.

My aim is, tomorrow, to either get you lynched, or to flip town so that people know to trust what I've said. Both of these are positive outcomes, to me.

[Davsto]

I'll consider Vyse once the day is over. Currently, he is not a concern of mine. I don't have any thoughts on him, and I'm currently not in the mood to read through 80 posts.

[Davsto]

My guess of the reason for the attempt at the reaction test:

It's interesting to see how people act when there's a risk of them being lynched compared to how they act when they can't be lynched.

[Davsto]

I don't know. Ask anyone who thinks Dave and I are scumbuddies. :p

Seriously though, Dave/Vyse should be the challenge tomorrow. I will challenge if necessary though.

Who do you think we should lynch today? Tomorrow?

Fuck off is this the challenge tomorrow, I'm not letting you hide where you can't be lynched again while you get me mislynched. You haven't been challenged all game, and it's time to put you under some pressure.

[Davsto]

I have given plenty of goddamn reasons, I have been giving information why, I'm not trying to get you mislynched, I'm trying to get you rightfully lynched.

Accusing me of "derp shit" when I've obviously been speaking sense is just stupid.

[Davsto]

So I wake up and there's already been a challenge

and

a use of Gambler's Fallacy.

Disappointed.

Now, I'll make sure to give PB kicks up the arse in Blue Barracudas thread so he doesn't lurk.

However, the big question is this: is Firebringer reckless town, or scum hiding in

Refuge in Audacity?

Say he's scum, and he knows who else is scum. Who's to say he didn't make that challenge so that he's the only scum in the four? That gives him pretty good odds for scum not being lynched, as well as being town read for recklessness.

Needless to say, I'm really wary.

We should lynch Dave tomorrow.

Am I not seeing something? Why would anyone bus both their partners (Vedith start to finish with plenty of chance to save him) , then propose a suicide plan for himself.

How is that bloody scum?

He told us exactly what he was doing.

That's not Refuge in Audacity. RiA would be doing something super super scummy and going so far across the line of scumminess that people assume you are town.

See here.

What I give wasn't the exact description but that's the best way to apply it to mafia.

This quote gives a good idea...

The key is to be so audacious in how you violate the rules (whether they be laws or a moral/ethic code) that no one can believe you did it. If someone tells the police how you tried to stab them with a knife, you'll be arrested. However, if they tell the police how you tried to throw them into a tank full of hammerhead sharks, razor blades, and sulfuric acid; there's good odds the police will just laugh them off and not bother investigating. Alternatively, suppose you’re in a food court and start picking food off people's plates; they'll take their food back and tell you to leave them alone. However, if you dash through the food court with a wheelbarrow, tossing everyone's food into it, yelling, "Quickly! All your food in here! No time to explain!" they might be so flabbergasted by what's happening that they can't bring themselves to stop you. Basically, people have a Weirdness Censor when it comes to human behavior; since most people follow the rules (or pretend to), someone who breaks the rules with such flagrant abandon is so unusual that people have a hard time accepting that they exist, and will try to rationalize what's happening by assuming that the violator has some sort of exceptional reason for breaking protocol; otherwise, they wouldn't even dare to be so open about it, right?

[Davsto]

Shiro - why aren't you voting Suzune?

[Davsto]

Oh, right.

Dammit, I thought I'd caught onto something

[Davsto]

Davsto you're gonna love this one
I don't think two scum would have rolled on the same team.

;-;

[Davsto]

I would not be surprised if at least one pair was both mafia. To take a page from Shiro's book. It adds to the drama. If they were all lone pairs then we would be lulled into a sense of security with one from each pair being left. So logically, there must be a full pair of scum.

ohmigooooodddd


it's literally random

guaranteed

Haschael assigned four scum randomly, independent of our chosen teams

this is aoisudfhsildufhlisdjf

Reading anyone because of their partners flip for reasons other than, you know, scumhunting and associatives etc, is absolutely ridiculous.

[Davsto]

Sorry, Gambler's Fallacy is my pet peeve

[Davsto]

;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;

[Davsto]

;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;

*coughs*

[Davsto]

Just because the conclusion was right does not mean the steps taken to find it were right.

[Davsto]

I'm actually really tempted to lean Shiro-scum right now.

Last few posts have been real fluffy (yeh I know "you're like that all the time w/e") and that "goodbye!" post was hella premature and looks like an attempt to look townie

I'm- fuckittt

PEdit - thank fuck for preview edit or I totally would have quickhammered.

Y'all okay with a Shiro lynch?

[Davsto]

eww
VOTE: Shiro

We gotta lynch someone, and I'm not even sure if any of them are scum so wth!

[Davsto]

[Davsto]

fuk

[Davsto]

Me/Titus

(that's Barracudas and Parrots)

[Davsto]

I- uhh- okay, Elbirn.

I'm feeling too proud to go for a Titus wagon when she can't fight back. I also kinda wanna follow the lynch order of leaving the town bloc until last.

Will read through Vyse's ISO when I have enough free time (in <24 hours, don't worry).

[Davsto]

goddamit fire, that new avatar is adorable

will start catchup on Vyse in a bit~

[Davsto]

Since VCA depends on a conflict, would you like to analyse the Vedith/Fire/Molla votes D1? Thanks.

[Davsto]

But didn't you say you'd do a VCA on a Me/Vyse challenge?

[Davsto]

And you have who voted for Fire/Molla over Vedith on D1 and the alignment of Vedith too.

[Davsto]

See, that wasn't too difficult.

[Davsto]

Shit, you came up with a lynch pool of three players within which you believe one is likely scum. But no, that's not useful. Obviously.

[Davsto]

And extra reasoning added onto that is useless for you?

Anywho, I read through Vyse's ISO and I'm...


...

*suspense*

[Davsto]

*suspense ends*

not really sold on him being scum.

[Davsto]

I read through your ISO and several parts really struck me as odd from scum. I'll try and get specifics if asked, but it's real late and I have little energy after that read.

[Davsto]

And extra reasoning added onto that is useless for you?

Anywho, I read through Vyse's ISO and I'm...


...

*suspense*

I highly suspect we have the same read on each other, Dav.

Not going to complain, but I was kinda expecting the opposite.

Not sure what ot make of this.

So this implies a scumread of me, may I ask why?

[Davsto]

I hate to sound stally, but can I answer that MeatWorld tomorrow? I kinda want to ISO him before answering that and it's too late for me to have that energy. Sorry.

[Davsto]

Okay ugh let me say something, im really thinking a Vyse/Titus scumteam right now.

Titus wanted a me/Vyse challenge. If I get lynched, free mislynch, and if Vyse gets lynched, she'll be seen as having put her partner in the firing line and potentially get twoncred for it.

On the other hand she threw a right tantrum at the challenge today, maybe that is because she knows Elbirn won't be lynched and thus a scum lynch is likely.

Just some theory crafting.

@Vyse - you still haven't answered about your scumread on me

[Davsto]

Also, regarding the Vyse town read, I made it at 21:40 last night and I can't actually remember why so im gonna reread the ISO in a little bit and see if I can find the reasons again.

[Davsto]

But seriously, look at this.

@Davesto, Absolutely not. Vyse hasn't had an ounce of memorable content since Day 2. I am respecting his real life problems but that doesn't mean he just gets to sit on his ass and lurk. Someone can factor that in and his day 2 unvote of Kaito to discuss my mistaken belief that Sonic was scum to get ascumread on him. That's not attacking his teal life issues. I want him to sub out to resolve them or play. If not, my scumread stands as that's where it was the moment Sonic flipped town.

If Vyse subs out or stays, tomorrow's challenge better not happen until that slot it caught up. Anyone who challenges before Dave has a read on Vyse and Vyse has caught up is getting turbo got parked by my "town block" or not. Vyse's slot has gone far too long without content.

@Shiro, At the time (and I still do) think the scum is Dave/Vyse. I was attempting to sort you but I would rather keep the focus on my scumreads.

Right now, I am faced with lynching someone I currently believe to be town.

Yes, be disappointed I don't want to fall into an inadvertent trap you made. I am hunting scum, not presuming they are within you two because you "reaction test" challenged. Eventually, I will have to choose but right now, I don't want to.

@Suzune, Then quote the post next time because I didn't remember and reading Shiro doesn't need to e any harder for me.

All this "Vyse is scum", then suddenly when she can actually vote him she votes someone else?
Since she wants Vyse lynched anyway, why does she care about the lymchpool, since who she wants to lynch is in it?
If she thinks it's me/Vyse, why was she complaining about lynching outside the town bloc?
If she thinks it's me and Vyse, her excuse for wanting a meVvyse ("I wanted to vca") is also kinda crappy since, if it were both of us as scum, the fuck would vca show?

[Davsto]

Gah, true, ugh, idk.

Titus likes to manipulate attempts at VCA when she's scum though, right?

Also intent to put Vyse at L-1, I checked through and my townthoughts on him were pathetically weak.

[Davsto]

Yeh yeh okay
I don't buy it

VOTE: VysePresident

L-1

[Davsto]

I'm not voting you because I have pride. I'll be voting you in a 1v1 tomorrow, as I promised.

[Davsto]

Titus lynch? Glad it's finally happened.

VOTE: Titus


Screw my pride, I want to win.

[Davsto]

Ftr, the pride thing was not being a hypocrite.

I called out Titus for hardpushing Metal Sonic without ever putting herself on the line, and I would feel like a gibbon doing the same.

PEdit yes, BB, that is hammer.

[Davsto]

Vyse, Elbirn, BB, me.

That's four.

Anyway I need to shower

*wobbles away*

[Davsto]

Called it~

Anyway, Suzune makes sense; Titus hard pushed away from the scum wagons on Vedith and Kaito, so her doing the same for Suzune makes sense. Shall someone challenge?

PEdit okay

VOTE: Suzune

[Davsto]

shit i'm sold

[Davsto]

But seriously, there's no way in hell I'm voting Firebringer, so ya know.

[Davsto]

If suzie isn't the last scum nobody challenge anyone else like ever. We need to think this shit over.

If Suzune isn't scum, scum is probably Vyse (or me from your PoVs). I don't see Titus kicking up that much of a fuss over the lynch order if it would cause her to win. Sure, you could argue WIFOM, but why not just go along with it if it causes you to win?

PEdit sorry Fire, they're all filled. I'll PM you when the game enters signups though (next in queue!), to give you a higher chance of getting there quickly enough. Although, Normals don't tend to fill fast.

[Davsto]

Hehe, they must have crapped themselves when we lynched scum twice in a row

and then when I was onto Titus she must've gone "shet".

[Davsto]

Oh please let us see c:

[Davsto]

(Obviously don't quote because rules but this is intriguing)

[Davsto]

Smooth.

[Davsto]

I'm not scum. Nice job lynching me before I even godfdamn post.

If suz isn't last scum, Vyse is. Trust me.

[Davsto]

I am seriously gown. Seriously, I pushed two scum early D1 and D2 and the biggest Titus pusher. Don't be obtuse.

[Davsto]

I mean, the fact that Vyse continued is borderline scum slip, if you adk me. Trying to get a free mislynch off.

PEdit I mean it still could be Suz, I just don't see Titus throwing a tantrum against a method that gives her autowin.

[Davsto]

Well then lynch Vyse!

[Davsto]

Seriously. It's basic logic that Titus wouldn't throw a fit over a strategy allowing her win being suggested and supported by town!

[Davsto]

Look, its as simple as the fact that Titus would totally be okay with a strategy which allows her to win, thus the fact that she threw a wobbly about it basically confirms that her partner was in the pool. It's not me, Suz or shiro so for chrissakes listen to me!

I'm not doing a big analysis because (a)I'm on phone and (b) Vyse is scum!!!!

[Davsto]

If it's not you, then I have no clue so honestly I'm not gonna input on that.

In case any of you are interested in deeper reasons on Vyse, how about that he was setting up a Titus/me push whilst titus was setting up a Vyse/me team, ready for me to be the next lynch after the flip of their partner?

[Davsto]

Also, while you all have a decent point in the "but all scum wouldn't be off scum wagon D1", but Titus is the exact kind of player to do that just to throw off our reads.

[Davsto]

Awesome!

Nice job Fire, you really did well over pressure, and I was cheering you on (and shouting at you a little ) in the dead thread.

Are the Mafia and Group threads gonna be released to us?

Don't expect any fancy insights from mine.

[Davsto]

Hehe, can't wait to read the mafia PT when I get home from school.

I imagine I caused a lot of problems for them.

[Davsto]

Well calling it a 1v1 is questionable when you couldn't be lynched

[Davsto]

To an extent I don't blame people on my speedlynch because it happened real quick but on the other hand the fact it was so damn quick should have rung alarm bells in terms of who pushed it.

As a general rule, listen to town who are dying. They're the people whose reads you can trust the most since you know they're town. If they make loads of points against a player, maybe consider them. Particularly if multiple town lynchees in a row say it.

I understand it can be annoying when people scream out things you disagree with in general, but other people are just as likely to be right as you. The only people whose alignments you know are you and any dead players. Try treating their reads like yours, albeit with a bit more scrutiny.

[Davsto]

See on one hand I think I'm getting good at pinning Titus!scum, but I don't think I've actually ever played with her in a situation where we're both town. So, ya know.

[Davsto]

As a matter of fact Dav, you were in fact my push entirely because of how afraid I was of letting you live. I'm not sure we'll always agree stylistically, but your accuracy this game was phenomenal & terrifying.

hehe

tbf your superquick push on me was pretty good, probably the most likely scenario to get me lynched. You got away with it with barely a second glance, because for some reason town just shrugged it off.

To be fair though, my reads this game were 25% fluke (Vedith) 25% sheep (Kaito) and only 50% genuine (Titus/you) and even then I refused to push Titus when I too couldn't be lynched because I can be quite proud. I wasn't going to get annoyed at Titus for making a 1v1 when she couldn't be lynched and then pull that crap myself.

[Davsto]

Although, after reading through the dead thread I am quite proud as to the accuracy of some of my speculative statements.

[Davsto]

*scum thread