Mini 1741: Day 3

[RadiantCowbells]

So what, is Elyse really your mason buddy?

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean I'm not sure how else you expected me to react and your own reaction is absolutely batshit.

Clear up the misunderstanding, what misunderstanding? you jumped to a million conclusions about things that I said and I called you out on it and you flipped shit at me.

I don't even know how to react to you right now.

[Garmr]

Lay down the reasoning then before you conveniently forgot. And no me and Elyse aren't masons


Also your the one flipping shit throwing accusations. Wtf is wrong with you.

[Zoronos]

@RC
I want to interject into this conversation, mostly because I don't understand at all what you two are arguing about.

What are your thoughts on our less-active participants? Scorpious, Input, and Jake (who is talking more, but doesn't strike me as super substantive at the moment). Opinions? Disagree on my bucketing of them? Have others you think need to be in this grouping?

[Frozen Angel]

What the fuck do you even mean Garmr?

This isn't about what she said it's about how she said it's about the fact that she's discussing that and in that fashion.

Being a hypocrite doesn't make one scum

this took my attention. the only thing we have right now in the process of game to work on , are scummy behaviors. we don't know who is scum and who is not . and being a hypocrite is a scummy behavior. So you think we shouldn't look for scummy behaviors to find scums?

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, but I never called her a hypocrite.

Garmr just jumped to conclusions like a madman.

[TheLhix]

So, as it stands, Garmr is not only seemingly jumping to conclusion but, is defending scummy behavior outright from face value?

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, but somehow I'm not really reading scum from it.

IDK.

[Aneninen]

It's in scum's interest to spend longer in RVS because it is not possible to hunt scum when no one can take your vote seriously. This is because it does not assert any pressure on the recipient. The more time that is spend on scum hunting the harder it is to avoid suspicion. So someone who breaks us out of RVS is in my opinion playing pro-town. Now you can argue that scum could go about hiding by play pro-town but in my experience people remember suspicious behaviour more than they remember how other people played pro-town.

I don't think it's working in that way.
Actually this reasoning reminds me of my first scumgame. I used another kind of generalization there ("scums are lurking early-game") so as to avoid picking up fights and draw too much attention on me.

Are you suggesting that I should be utterly confident in my reads this early in the game and unwilling to entertain all possibilities or to change my mind?

No.
But your posts were typlically "one step forward, one step back". This is a good way to look as if you were doing something whilst avoiding direct conflicts with others.

I disliked this post:

That suggests to me that both you and Zulfy are playing pro-town, and you at least are more likely to be town (which isn't saying much at this point in the game when there is no information to go). Scum hide best in the long term when they are considered to be scum hunting but they try to avoid drawing suspicion on themselves and certainly won't do that in order to help town.

a) Those pronouncements of pro-town play seemed out of line with actions. I don't think Zulfy was playing pro-town, so coming up with a town read on him / her at that juncture struck me as not in line with the facts (aka maybe scum with bonus info).
b) I find 'Scum would play like x' posts made in a vacuum to be mildly suspicious. Speculation about play vs 'Scum play like X and person Y is doing that ergo Y is scum'. The later is towny, and the former scummy. (I hope I am communicating this well, if it is confusing let me know.)

It's a bit thin, so I was wondering if anyone else was seeing the same thing, or if I was jumping at a shadow.

I can see other things in these.
As for (a), it may match a scum-mindset that wants to whiteknight others (which, again, looks like content, or is about searching for "allies" or about gaining town credit). (b) may be a kind of "generalization", which matches the things I pointed out above. (Instead of scumhunting based upon certain posts it's about talking scummy things in general. To avoid direct conflicts.)

To give an example to make this clearer:
"I have seen scum lurk before, because it means they don't have to post / scum hunt, and Input is lurking. Ergo, Input is scum" <- This is a towny comment. (Disclaimer: I chose a random name, please do not construe this as an actual judgement).
"Scum tend to lurk!" <- Scummy comment; it's active-lurking. It looks like scum hunting, but doesn't identify specific scum in this case, so is a good way to appear to scum hunt without actually doing so (hence scumminess).

I know what you mean. I think I'm talking about something similar. (Aren't I?)

________

Going on soon.

[Zoronos]

Town are hypocrites all the time. It's not a tell.
I wish it was, but it just isn't.

[RadiantCowbells]

Here's the thing;

I NEVER CALLED ELYSE A HYPOCRITE.

[Aneninen]

All of my current reads are rather Null, I stated the very minor reason against Captain Planet...
Garmr Seems rather null, but with a town lean given his eh interest in the analysis and overall nothing objectively incriminating...
Zulfy is null at the moment...
Frozen is a town lean for me, given her activity in searching for analysis and scum hunting...
Zoronos would get a similar read...
Mathilde is Null with scum lead only due to her recent comments as presented by Aneninen...

What a vague readlist.
It looks like content but it gives us very little and nothing new.

Do you love me?

my heart is broken so right now.. NO

Are you just lurking actively, Jake?

I'm open to questions.
Lhix and Angel ping me as scummy early on
getting town vibe from Elyse,JFSF, and Zoronos. Null on the rest..

As a start, you could give us some details.

VOTE: TheLhix
Not voting Keyser as of now because 11 days..no need for L-1 right now.. still null on that slot anyway

Unvote:

That part is strange, especially if we check the timetags too. (The latter post appeared one minute after the former one.)
Their interaction after these posts are also pinging me. What if two scums are talking to each other there?
(I'd add their posts about 227 are giving me the same feeling.)

Elyse, 224. You managed to post useful things about that 78 – I found it strange too (I think I mentioned it somewhere), although I wasn't able to explain it, why.

I think I need to point out that 236–238 arrived in 2 single minutes. I don't know whether it's significant or not. RC must have typed very quickly to make 237 in one minute. (One copy/paste, one line typed (in capitals), three more copy/pastes, each size-changed.)

I can't explain, why, but I think Zulfy's town. He reminds me of someone else's townplay (but I don't know whom).

Elyse literally has not managed to make one post that hasn't triggered my scumdar.
VOTE: Elyse

Details?

@RC / Garmr
I have no idea what the two of you are discussing.
VOTE: InputPrimary

But why?

________

Note to self.

TheLhix–Scorpious–Keyzer(?)
Zulfy–RC–TheLhix
Mathilde–Keyzer–Zoronos(?)
RC–Gammrn

(That's a kind of interaction graph, you don't have to care about it right now. However, it may be important after a scumy has been lynched.
The off-graph players – based upon other minor things not detailed here – are these: FrozenAngel, Jake, Elyze. These I consider town right now, although unsure about Jake, see above. Input is doing nothing.)

[RadiantCowbells]

You think that there's associatives between me and Garm, what?

Are you serious?

[Zoronos]

@RC
I want to interject into this conversation, mostly because I don't understand at all what you two are arguing about.

What are your thoughts on our less-active participants? Scorpious, Input, and Jake (who is talking more, but doesn't strike me as super substantive at the moment). Opinions? Disagree on my bucketing of them? Have others you think need to be in this grouping?

RC!

[RadiantCowbells]

IP looks pretty towny.

I'm leaning scum on Jake but it's not a strong read.

Really have nothing on Scorp.

[Aneninen]

You think that there's associatives between me and Garm, what?

Are you serious?

That was a self-reminder, ignore it.
And it wasn't about associations, it was about

interactions

. The only part which is relevant now are those players who're in "interaction vacuum", in spite of being here actively.

[Keyser Söze]

I'm a bit iffy with keyser at the moment since he did just beat me in a game he we just finished as mafia.

Why should that be a reason to scum-read me in

this

game? It is a logical fallacy Garmr, and you should know this.

@keyser, pardon me if this was asked/answered already. Why did you ask link about his experience after he claimed he was scum with you? I don't understand the point of such a question

Because I've seen someone claim scum with another player in a previous completed game I played in - he was subsequently mod-killled (

he was a newbie

,

he was mafia-aligned

).

Why would an experienced-Lhix want to get mod-killed?

well I'm playing an ongoing game with him. He is not playing like the way he was playing there.

You are both wrong and breaking site rules - but I believe the mod is letting anything go, so you are safe.

There hasn't been that much pressure on you yet.

I beg to differ. Do you think any player has come under 'much' pressure so far?

I want to know what are your current reads keysar ...

I promise to make a detailed catch-up today, including reads.

[Jake from State Farm]

Town are hypocrites all the time. It's not a tell.
I wish it was, but it just isn't.

Qft

[Jake from State Farm]

Are you just lurking actively, Jake?

I'm not lurking at all

[Jake from State Farm]

Because I've seen someone claim scum with another player in a previous completed game I played in - he was subsequently mod-killled (he was a newbie, he was mafia-aligned). Why would an experienced-Lhix want to get mod-killed?

Link?

[Jake from State Farm]

Btw, that still doesn't explain why you asked the question. It was a weird thing to ask imo

[Garmr]

I'm a bit iffy with keyser at the moment since he did just beat me in a game he we just finished as mafia.

Why should that be a reason to scum-read me in

this

game? It is a logical fallacy Garmr, and you should know this.

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That was just a bit located before the reasoning I added on to as well.

[InputPrimary]

IP looks pretty towny.

No I don't. What is this read? In my first newbie game, RC called me town for no reason and he was scum.

Sorry for the low activity everyone, I'm V/LA until Sunday. I'll be following the thread but probably not posting much because posting from a phone is annoying.

[Mathilda]

To anybody who ever plays with me in the future: When an RVS wagon gets to L1 I will always hammer.
If that wagon goes away and comes back with some essence? Then yea, that's called playing mafia.

Why?

The whole point of the wagon is to create pressure. Scum are more likely to slip under pressure. There is more pressure if the recipient is at L-1.

You are also assuming that an alternative wagon wouldn't also be for completely arbitrary reasons.

[Mathilda]

P.S I am scum and so is CP. I am taking him to hell with me

@Lhix, what was the best possible scum tell that you were hoping for in saying this if Keyser is scum?

How would this differ from his reaction if he is town?

If Keyser had reacted in a way that clearly told you that he is scum, how likely is it that town!Keyser could also react like that?