Open 623 (White Flag) - A Moment in Time (Over)

[AlwaysInnocent]

I am scumreading him for switching votes around 4 times in the first four pages then basically OMGUSing me when I scumread him.

Yes, switching my vote that many times makes totally sense as a scum gambit.

[RhazhBash]

SirCakez is clearly Town. Ignoring my "he plays bad as Town joke", he normally tries to hide in the background and give much weaker opinions. I can tell here that he's actually scumhunting and not faking it for Town cred. Also AI your reads list is bad.

[Drixx]

Vote Count 1.3

AlwaysInnocent {2} -

Yonom

,

TheCow

, Something_Smart, RhazhBash
Cerberus v666 {0} -

Something_Smart

,
NotAnAlt {0} -

AlwaysInnocent

,
PhantomCobalt {0} -

AlwaysInnocent

,
pistachi0n {0} -
RhazhBash {0} -

Something_Smart

,
SirCakez {4} -

RhazhBash

, pistachi0n, AlwaysInnocent,

Something_Smart

, Extrapolated Eagle, NotAnAlt
Something_Smart {4} - SirCakez, Titus,

TheCow

, PhantomCobalt, Yonom
TheCow {0} -
Titus {0} -
Extrapolated Eagle {0} -
Droog {0} -
Yonom {0} -

PhantomCobalt

,


Not Voting (4): Cerberus v666, TheCow

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or No Lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2016-01-27 22:00:00) from now, or January 27th, 10:00 PM Eastern (GMT-5).

Prodding: N/A
Replacing: N/A

[Extrapolated Eagle]

SirCakez is clearly Town. Ignoring my "he plays bad as Town joke", he normally tries to hide in the background and give much weaker opinions. I can tell here that he's actually scumhunting and not faking it for Town cred. Also AI your reads list is bad.

This will mean more to me if you flip town or ss flips scum.

[Cerberus v666]

(Drixx, you already replaced Viva La Gloria and Victor_Mortimer)

Hi guys. So, I'm gonna go iso those two people being wagoned and see if I think you're all wrong about them.

Thanks. I keep the previous vote count on hand so I can easily update it and overlooked removing that. ~Drixx

[Cerberus v666]

Best to just play the game naturally instead of planning out our strategies D1. If I don't know what I'm doing the Mafia surely can't counter my play.

I think you're scum with SS. Discuss.

I think you're scum with Rhazh and you're distancing.

So, the epic post that started all this shit. Why is this such a big deal? It reads like an obvious joke to me. Rhazh throws shade on Titus, Titus responds by suggesting that he's scum with SS, in a fashion that certainly sounds like it might be a joke, particularly with the whole "Discuss." bit at the end, and SS makes a post insinuating that the two of them are actually scum together, and it reads as facetious to me.

Phantom why are scum's associatives unpredictable? The mechanic does not even kick in until two scum remain, what makes you think they will play differently with three alive?

Can you rephrase this? It sounds like you're advocating for both sides here.

Okay.
Phantom, you said that you will ignore associatives in this game. You claimed this was because "the scum's associatives will be unpredictable." However, for the first few days this game plays no different from a normal game. So the scum's associatives will be just as predictable as they usually are. So what makes you say that?

So, you ask this sequence of questions of phantomcobalt with regards to the associatives thing, but you never really share what effect his sequence of answers had on you...but below, he's in your leaning scum pile. It feels weird that you ask these questions, get a slightly scummy feeling from his answers, but DON'T keep pushing him about other topics to solidify your read.

VOTE: Rhazh
Attacking people without voting to support it, making unprompted references to what the scum want or do, inconsistencies in play. Overall feels like he is trying to fit in and play like everyone else is.

What are the inconsistencies in play? Attacking people without voting to support it is weird, but it depends on the strength of the attack, really...and the player. If you know he always votes whenever he attacks someone, then sure, it's reasonable to be suspicious of it. I almost never vote people I attack(kinda because I tend to make extremely strong cases, in the event I determine someone is super likely scum, and I'm more concerned with the day ending before we discuss more than I am with supporting my case with a vote). Unprompted references to what scum want or do is whatever. I don't understand why you think that's scummy. Where's the scum motivation in doing so? What does he, as scum, get out of it? I'd like some more explanation of the idea of he's "trying to fit in and play like everyone else is".

I don't like Cakez because he's making unsupported statements while overly explaining his actions. He gives the feeling of scum trying not to stand out.
VOTE: SirCakez

This is weird too. Unless you're implying cakez is super nub scum, I don't buy the idea that scum!cakez would go out of his way to attack someone with things which are untrue, and fabricate reasons for having those opinions. People do plenty of dumb things as town, you don't need to make up reasons to attack someone as scum, they'll give you reasons. Even if he *would* do that, what do you mean he gives the feeling of scum trying not to stand out? like, wtf? Making unsupported statements is definitely a way to fucking stand out. So is "overexplaining" things. Your reason for an expressed dislike of the slot here doesn't really mesh with what you're accusing him of doing.

Something_Smart is probably town.

Speaking of buddying look at that first sentence.

Actually, I get the feeling that AI is more whiteknighting me. I could definitely see a SirCakez-AI team playing both sides of the wagon and soft double bussing.
Cerb and Titus on the other hand feel town to me.
Phantom is annoying and could go either way. Rhazh as well.
Pistachi0n is ok, seems honest and genuine enough.
Yonom's done very little except jump onto L-2 with scummy reasoning. Also, interestingly, she made almost the same joke as me, and caught no flak at all for it...

you know what
VOTE: AlwaysInnocent
This is both whiteknighting and buddying, and it's unacceptable.

also townreading someone who is scumreading you is fine
but townreading someone FOR scumreading you is scummy.

Alright, so this sequence of posts.

First of all, does this mean Cakez-AI are your top scumreads? Why is whiteknighting actually scummy? This is a flawed thought I always see people express. As town, if you strongly townread someone, YOU SHOULDN'T LET THEM GET LYNCHED. Sure, scum buddy, and this may be a method of doing so, but it's not innately scummy. Townreading someone for scumreading you is scummy? What? Why? This again depends on the player, but if you know your style leads people to scumread you as town, it's perfectly reasonable to think that someone who scumread you is doing so from a town perspective.

I feel town? So you agree with AI about my slot? Even though you're voting him here? Phantom is annoying. And placed as null here. So is Rhazh. Noted. Yonom is attacked a bit here for their vote on you, but we'll see where they end up in your reads list 40 posts later.

Yonom, why do you not expect town to be scumhunting? I am focusing on the players I think are scum. It just so happens that two of the three I don't like are on my wagon, a wagon which half the players who have posted are on.

If you don't think that's how town should act, please tell me why what you are doing is any different.

Aside from this, there are several inconsistencies in your most recent post. The claim that I am first and foremost attacking people on my wagon is not even accurate. My vote is on one of the TWO players actually defending me.

Secondly, you spent an entire paragraph saying why your vote is to increase pressure and you don't necessarily want to lynch me, and then turn around and say I'm scummy, with only confbias as a reason.

Right now, my biggest scumreads are AlwaysInnocent and Yonom. If other people could let me know what their thoughts are regarding these players, I would appreciate it.

Meh. Quick read of AI's iso leaves nothing pinging, I'd have to actually read it and pull quotes and shit like I'm doing right now with you, and I don't want to deal with that atm. Now, Yonom, she only has 9 posts. that's way more manageable. Her 115 about you is stupid and terrible. "jumping too conclusions too fast and too randomly isn't scummy behavior". I find it less likley that scum would just throw shit at half the game than town would do so. However, unlike what you said in your 158, the reasoning isn't scummy. It's just, like, wrong. wrong!=scummy. I'm not so sure about 171 though. Like, what does she mean by "waiting for better options"? Does Yonom typically look to apply early pressure through votes to reaction test people? Is that what sort of better option she was looking for? That bit just confuses me.

That's a good idea.

{Something_Smart}

{Titus, Cerberus v666}

{pistachi0n, TheCow}

{Viva La Gloria, Victor_Mortimer, NotAnAlt}

{Yonom, PhantomCobalt}

{RhazhBash, SirCakez}

{AlwaysInnocent}

And Rhazh you realize there is a difference between "a joke" and "a page 3 read that I don't want people to see as a huge commitment but that is my strongest so far". To say that it wasn't serious is a misrepresentation.

Droog's entrance was good, Eagle's was fine. People are saying they don't like my reads though, what about them don't you like?

I don't like that yonom and phantomcobalt occupy the same tier of your list, when you attack yonom above and have her as your strongest scum read, next to AI. How did AI and rhazhbash wedge their ways in between yonom and AI in your reads? What dropped them below yonom, or raised yonom up to phantoms level. Also, phantom and rhazh are both described as null the last time you mentiond them, but here they're both on the scum side of the line. Right now, you're basically expressing suspicion of a Rhazh/cakez/AI team. That's in line with your earlier thought that you could see a cakez/AI team, but where does rhazhbash fit into that equation?

I don't have anything to say about the people who you're townreading, because whatever. it's what you expressed earlier, there's no inconsistencies, etc.

I'll look into cakez later, probably.

[droog]

it would really help me
keep a few of you straight
if you please got avatars

That's eh, that's not happening. Try reading our names?

nw
im just going to use this for you from now on

Spoiler:

[droog]

naa just moved to the top of my townlist
his case on cake is great and i like his style

he actually said something id been trying
to figure out myself

But then when you look back at SirCakez's posts, you see that he's scumreading 3 of the 4 people voting him and I don't buy for a second that he's confident that the scum in a white flag setup decided it would be a good idea to almost singlehandedly create a counterwagon to try to save one of their own who looked/looks like he's going to be lynched early. And he was confident of this happening by the start of page 6? I think the MUCH more likely scenario is that he looked at his own play, saw his own supposed confidence in his reads, and made an overly-broad statement based off of it to paint SS as scum without thinking if it made sense.

good enough to sheep
VOTE: cakes

[droog]

Droog's entrance was good, Eagle's was fine. People are saying they don't like my reads though, what about them don't you like?

They look like they are just how you feel about a bunch of people because theyve been attacking you or not attacking you.

this is fair
ss id like to see your reads with the mentality
'im not about to get lynched by a shitty town'

[SirCakez]

Why wouldn't I be confident in that? Isn't white flag about the associatives and scum trying to keep each other alive?

This has gone unanswered.

[Something_Smart]

@Cerberus:
About PC, I don't like his accusation that my posts to him were "useless theory fluff" when he was the one who brought up the theory. I haven't pushed him because he hasn't been at the top of my scum list.
About Yonom, I felt a little better about her after her responses to my attacks, particularly where she acknowledged her fallacy.
About Rhazh, he's not being very helpful and he seems to be subtly egging on my wagon.
And another thing- I don't necessarily expect my 3 biggest scumreads to be the scumteam. So I don't think all my scumreads need to "fit in".

[pistachi0n]

it would really help me
keep a few of you straight
if you please got avatars

That's eh, that's not happening. Try reading our names?

Why are you so against having an avatar? Are you trying to make a statement? Are you morally opposed to avatars? Would you having an avatar be like a false idol that fails to represent your greatness? What gives?

[PhantomCobalt]

SS you're cracking me up

[PhantomCobalt]

NotAnAlt first brought it up and people asked me to elaborate

[pistachi0n]

How is that backtracking? I said townies are confident in reads then called SS scummy for having no confidence in his reads.
Why wouldn't I be confident in that? Isn't white flag about the associatives and scum trying to keep each other alive?

Okay, so at a closer look I think

Townies usually have confidence in their scumreads.

and

I'm saying you jumped votes too easily for how apparently confident you were in your scumreads. No conviction in actually pushing a wagon through on the person being voted.

seems like a contradiction, but if you look at the second quote more closely, I get the impression that he's saying SS isn't confident but is trying to fake it. From phrasing like "apparently confident" and "no conviction in actually pushing a wagon."

Which is still bizarre, but not blatant backtracking. Cakes, how can you tell if someone's confidence is fake or real? What post struck you as trying to pretend to be confident? Do I understand this correctly?

[SirCakez]

This

VOTE: Rhazh
Attacking people without voting to support it, making unprompted references to what the scum want or do, inconsistencies in play. Overall feels like he is trying to fit in and play like everyone else is.

and this

I don't like Cakez because he's making unsupported statements while overly explaining his actions. He gives the feeling of scum trying not to stand out.
VOTE: SirCakez

and this

Now that's definitely a scum vote.

if you mean a vote on scum then yeah sure

and this

you know what
VOTE: AlwaysInnocent
This is both whiteknighting and buddying, and it's unacceptable.

all struck me as pretending to be confident that the person being voted was scum. It looks fake because he changed votes way too easily for someone who just said, "this is a vote on scum".

[droog]

so is he confident or isnt he

[SirCakez]

Not confident. I thought it was pretty clear.

[Something_Smart]

So how confident are you then SirCakez? How confident can you be D1?

[AlwaysInnocent]

It looks fake because he changed votes way too easily for someone who just said, "this is a vote on scum".

That is just a provocative playstyle. Nothing wrong with it.

[SirCakez]

Pretty confident. This discussion is going in circles.

[droog]

Not confident. I thought it was pretty clear.

but you said his tone was confident

[AlwaysInnocent]

Why are we still discussing this? Something_Smart is obvious town.

[SirCakez]

Not confident. I thought it was pretty clear.

but you said his tone was confident

His tone is confident but his actions do not reflect actually being confident.

[AlwaysInnocent]

Not confident. I thought it was pretty clear.

but you said his tone was confident

His tone is confident but his actions do not reflect actually being confident.

So you mean he is bluffing. Must be scum then.