Mini 1758: Game Over

tictac · Post Post #850 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:04 am

Cakes:
The push on me day 1 was too convenient, specially since he didn't put energy into trying to push anything before he got heat on him.
Also the points he raised were largely about disagreeing with the things I said. Agree/disagree scumreading tends to be a scumtell.
Ika wagon was too fast and makes sense as scum trying to get heat off him.
On the other hand I like his read progression on day 2.
scumlean.

ckd:
770 actually can be read as a cop soft "I am town and I know he is town". This is not what camn meant, I don't think, or she would have said so.
"it's anti-town for me to explain" reads like "it would be anti-town to outright say I think you guys are masons". Not seeing a soft there.
Cakes target doesn't make sense from an experienced player. Targetting Cakes when there was practically no chance he would be chosen to make a nightkill. While it's true he could have gotten a scum PR with it, the chances of getting an usable result were higher for practically any other player. It's not like using tracking on scumreads makes much sense even if they aren't widely scumread. Info roles in general are better suited sorting players who can't be otherwise sorted (nulls). As an experienced player ckd should know this.
On the other hand a claimed VT is a safe target to fakeclaim as scum.
He was reading town to me before this whole hulabaloo thou, and that does count for something.
scumlean

camn:
dislike 'confscum', dislike pushing for early lynch, dislike the softing charge on ckd since the posts she points to do not at all look like a softs to me. She did look better to me on the latter end of day 1, but now she is back at her old scum-ways. Way too much certainty for someone who is actually town. Pushing more with personality than with actual reasons. I like Cakes point about PR speculation.
I did think the ultimatum was towny of her, but it's drowned out by being otherwise scummy.
scum

Plain farmer:
I need to do more research here. read pending.

lokiben:
Still looks clearly towny to me, but if cakes and Elyse are both town then loki is probably scum for "I strongly believe this to be TvS"
I did dislike him telling me what I can and can't find relevant in this game, but I have been told similar things by townies before.
town for now.

Random:
I'm gut reading him as scum, but I tend to do that with more casual newbs. He will have to wait until I can do POE or I get a strong signal either way.
null.

update: camn does make a good point in 843.
I do get the feeling from players who have commented on ckd, that he is prone to emotion.
@people who have played with ckd before: How likely would he be to act anti-town because he was angry?

camn · Post Post #851 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:06 am

In post 850, tictac wrote:actually can be read as a cop soft "I am town and I know he is town". This is not what camn meant, I don't think, or she would have said so.

No..this is exactly how I read the whole exchange.

tictac · Post Post #852 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:15 am

In post 851, camn wrote:
In post 850, tictac wrote:actually can be read as a cop soft "I am town and I know he is town". This is not what camn meant, I don't think, or she would have said so.

No..this is exactly how I read the whole exchange.

Then, why not include 770 when you were listing softs in 840?
The stuff you posted doesn't look like softing.

Some Random Mafia Player · Post Post #853 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:16 am

In post 849, SirCakez wrote:SRMP the fact remains town has no motivation to try to fish out who masons are. Its not pro-town at all.

I know, I was trying to explain that what camn pointed out isent a cop soft.

curiouskarmadog · Post Post #854 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:24 am

In post 845, Some Random Mafia Player wrote:Camn, when did he crumb cop? The reason explaining would have been anti town was because he would have outed potential masons.

Tictac, this. Also camn knew what I was talking about at the time because she originally voted me because she said I claimed masons. When I pointed out that was a lie/incorrect she changed it to I was claiming cop. She keeps changing her reasoning.

curiouskarmadog · Post Post #855 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:25 am

In post 851, camn wrote:
In post 850, tictac wrote:actually can be read as a cop soft "I am town and I know he is town". This is not what camn meant, I don't think, or she would have said so.

No..this is exactly how I read the whole exchange.

This is a complete lie. I have posted multiple times where she said u was claiming masons.

curiouskarmadog · Post Post #856 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:26 am

U=I
On phone

curiouskarmadog · Post Post #857 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:28 am

Furthermore when super mafia called her out (last page) she then changed it again by saying she was saying something else. Fuck. She keeps lying. Clearly she is scum.

Lokiben · Post Post #858 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:36 am

Catching up.

curiouskarmadog · Post Post #859 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:58 am

In post 851, camn wrote:
In post 850, tictac wrote:actually can be read as a cop soft "I am town and I know he is town". This is not what camn meant, I don't think, or she would have said so.

No..this is exactly how I read the whole exchange.

HERE is what happened WHEN it happened.

- - -

In post 732, camn wrote:Agreed.
Im not buying that pile of mason crap.

In post 733, camn wrote:The CKD I know doesn't softclaim as town. Period.

In post 736, curiouskarmadog wrote:
In post 733, camn wrote:The CKD I know doesn't softclaim as town. Period.

I didnt soft claim anything.

In post 738, camn wrote:If I were scum, and I saw that shit between you and RC, I would nightkill you both. You softclaimed.

In post 741, curiouskarmadog wrote:
In post 738, camn wrote:If I were scum, and I saw that shit between you and RC, I would nightkill you both. You softclaimed.

post it, post where you think I softclaimed NOW.

In post 743, camn wrote:
In post 713, curiouskarmadog wrote:
In post 711, RadiantCowbells wrote:no i understand exactly what you're doing, I assure you.

this statement frustrates the fuck out of me right now, because clearly you dont. but I cant explain why because that would be anti-town.

Elyse, can you help me out here please.

This is not a newbie game, and you aren't some rookie. This shit is intentional.
The only question is if you and RC are partners and planned this.

she clearly THEN thought I was claiming masons (NOT COP). only when I called her out on her bad reasoning for a vote, she changed her fucking reasoning.

she did not read the "WHOLE EXCHANGE" that way.

fuck

i am super frustrated right now. and for the fucking record, I didnt initially start out anti-town. quite the opposite. I asked RC to stop crumbing. I only outed my beliefs AFTER RC voted me...and even then, i tried to be discrete at first. in the end though I did end up being anti-town..so I guess how it started doesnt matter.

but what no one is asking themselves is ...WHY THE FUCK AS SCUM WOULD SET OUT TO OUT MASONS IN GAME? I would have noted that shit and offed who i thought was masons at night...if I was scum, outing masons in the game WOULD ONLY HURT SCUM.

fuck

g H;QCO8

curiouskarmadog · Post Post #860 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:01 pm

LOL...

hit the keyboard and posted to early.

okay I need to take a break from this game.

fucking pissed.

lynch me today and save scum the kill tonight.

whatever

walking away from this until friday.

UpTooLate · Post Post #861 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:20 pm

UNVOTE: until I have a chance to read through all of this

camn · Post Post #862 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:55 pm

In post 852, tictac wrote:
In post 851, camn wrote:
In post 850, tictac wrote:actually can be read as a cop soft "I am town and I know he is town". This is not what camn meant, I don't think, or she would have said so.

No..this is exactly how I read the whole exchange.

Then, why not include 770 when you were listing softs in 840?
The stuff you posted doesn't look like softing.

It does to me. It was as clear as could be.
By the time 770 came CKD was conf in my veiw. It did not prompt this case.

camn · Post Post #863 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:57 pm

Plus...he has since HARDCLAIMED.
So any previous shenanigans were certainly him crumbing, and not any Mason nonsense.

tictac · Post Post #864 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:03 pm

In post 772, a plain farmer wrote:
I know I looked in either (maybe both) of Little Italy and Coney Island. The Mini 1758 is actually one of the games from those forums. I can't remember anything about it beyond what I've said so far.

Spoiler: Where those games can actually be found

No games from Little Italy nor Coney Island were included in the meta.

Since Farmer doesn't seem to know where the games in his meta come from, I'm gonna conclude that he didn't actually spend significant amount of time doing meta reading in Central Park or completed large themes forums. More likely to be someone elses work that he copy-pasted.
He's scum.

ISO · Post Post #865 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:38 pm

In post 831, RadiantCowbells wrote:Camn talk about your reads on

SirCakez/tictac/ckd/a plain farmer/lokiben

Tictac- He was a scumread for me for a while but he's sitting in null now because his posts day two have improved. Better pushes, better reads, etc.

CKD - Very likely scum. The Mason fishing, his reactions afterward, the people saying this isn't his town meta at all. Happy with my vote on him right now.

Plain Farmer - Was a town read but with the stuff Tictac just posted he slipped in my reads to null. Doesn't make any sense why town would fake that meta dive.

Lokiben - Still sitting in my town reads for his interactions with Elyse and lack of scumminess but is doing very little in thread. Want to see more come out of him.

Camn - My iffiest read. Had her as scum day one, then town earlier today and now she's slipping back to scum. Really don't like the stuff with looking for who might be a cop, for example 833 at the end. As others have said she's rushing the lynch through and hard tunneling in a bad way. But I do like her earlier scumhunting and content so she's null leaning scum for me right now.

Lokiben · Post Post #866 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:55 pm

In post 533, curiouskarmadog wrote:

Interesting response. "it is not my responsibility" It has nothing to do with responsibility and everything to do with motivation. You clearly were not motivated is discover scum. Either you were not concerned with my motivation for the vote or what I saw that I thought deserved a vote. This is noted.

"whole lot of bluster" HA. thats my bag baby. I didnt get this title for making tea a cookies. I see something that is complete and utter bullshit and I call it like I see it.

finally, looking forward to your Cake and ika comparison. I havent looked yet, but if I had money I would bet that at the end of ika will get the vote.

To return to this, because you want an answer and I want to respond, you should have known my default assumption when a vote has been cast is that all of the reason for that vote has already been given. There's no real reason to not explain a vote as town. And you're still dodging explaining why the vote was naked in the first place. Also, I didn't happen to inspire your new signature here, did I?

And bluster doesn't mean calling something like you see it. Hilariously enough, this is what I got from Google:

Google wrote:bluster (/ˈbləstər/)- talk in a loud, aggressive, or indignant way with little effect

Moving on,

In post 698, Elyse wrote:
In post 685, curiouskarmadog wrote:Elyse, quick question. is RC town?

Yes

Given all the shit that followed this post about curious crumbing something or other, why did you indulge him here, Elyse?

In post 708, camn wrote:Thank you SRMP.

Cowbells... I thought we were gonna be a power town voting bloc? What happen?
In re: CKD.. He certainly seems more present this day. I'm not sure he is really pinging my scumdar, though... Which, despite my lies last game is actually pretty decent. So I think town on his slot.

Cakez is scum. I am really trying to look at my self and see if I am confbiasing him... But I just see scumotivation in every second of him.
Farmer as his partner? Maybe?
And then there is the enigma of tictac. He is just so hard-analytical...which I think, for ME, is too much work for scum. But then objectively I think how easy to fake, right?

But that is really my scum group.
Cakez. Farmer. Tictac.

Can you please be a little less abstract when you give your reasons for these reads? It just makes it easier for me to follow your logic and judge for myself whether or not you've brought up any valid points.

Ok, I don't think the case against ckd is really all that concrete, and what really catches my eye is that it's RC and camn pushing it. I had a moderate scumread on RC after reading over last night, and it was something I meant to get to in my last wall but didn't have the time for, like the question ckd sent my way. And considering what's unfolded since then, I think I'm going to put it off to the next wall again to reevalute, but I don't think it'll turn out much different.

In post 764, RadiantCowbells wrote:you publicly outed two people whom you believed to be masons.

that's beyond unacceptable if you are town so I'm assuming that you are scum because I am not of the opinion that you are a stupid shit.

maybe I'm wrong.

In post 751, SirCakez wrote:Why would you even dig into those crumbs?
Went back and looked at the posts and I think I get it now.

I can answer this one. ckd has not used it to explain himself so it's not a valid explanation if he's town, but I think this relates enough to the fundamentals of the game to be relevant regardless of the situation. Something Rock told me once and that I agree with is that pointing out town crumbing is not always a bad move. The logic being, scum could pick up on the crumb while town wouldn't, and that would be bad. So, if a crumb is obvious enough, it's always best for the town to point it out, and level the playing field so the protectives could get on the crumber's back.

Besides, I think that the fact that the crumbs, and the crumb digging, went over literally everyone's head except RC's in RC and camn's theory is evidence enough that it was no harm, no foul on ckd's part. It wasn't until he claimed that he recognized the softing and that RC and Elyse were Masons did I feel suspicion may have been warranted, and even then I don't think it's a clean-cut scum move.

In post 760, curiouskarmadog wrote:
In post 757, RadiantCowbells wrote:and now CKD is trying to make sure EVERYONE IN THIS GAME understands that me and Elyse are masons together.

Like I can't imagine how low my opinion of you would be if you were town here.

well now I feelings are hurt....I am being sort of serious here.

you do see where I asked you stop crumbing right? my problem now, is I get angry easily. it is now a principle thing. if I knew you were a fucking mason as scum, why the fuck WOULD I BRING IT UP HERE? you are not thinking it out. I asked you to stop and confirmed my guess with Elyse, so I knew to leave it alone. YOU are the fucking one to bring it back up.

To play devil's advocate, that's some fucking awful AtE.

Separately, I know that being quick to get irritated is a general town tell, but it's also a really meta-based thing, and I'm not familiar with any metas so I don't think I should be the one to read ckd for it.

In post 770, curiouskarmadog wrote:i thought you didnt understand what I did (I guess you still dont), I tried to explain it.

i was getting frustrated.

It is one thing when someone who is scum is attacking you. it is another when someone who you think is town is attacking you. I tried to explain it without saying anything. but you just kept at it. I was like "why is he not getting it?"...."I am town and I know he is town, why wont he just go back a read what I said when I said it". I got more and more angry.

fuck

yeah, I guess you are ultimately right.

I should have just taken to vote and not said anything. I guess it was the principle of the vote...

ugh.

whatever.

Guess I am mostly embarrassed and tried to save face(?). I am town, but I get it at this point....policy...

If there's one post that ultimately changes my mind, it might be this one. He admits that what he did wasn't good for the town, and all he can say for himself is "Aww, shucks."

In post 800, Elyse wrote:
In post 794, SirCakez wrote:Why Zulfy? He's still sitting in my null reads.

He's not acknowledging ckd or what's happening. Reads to me as scum unsure of what to do and scared of being perceived the wrong way

I mean, he wasn't very eloquent or elaborative, but he definitely acknowledged it:

In post 780, Zulfy wrote:Looks like another shit wagon to me.

Vote Elyse. Shes no eidolon

I think he's at least a little sure of what he wants to do. This makes no sense. and I don't like it.

In post 811, tictac wrote:
In post 789, tictac wrote:
In post 783, curiouskarmadog wrote:I am the tracker. No one seemed to question why I didn't hammer Scakes today when I was so hot on lynching him yesterday. I tracked him last night and he did nothing.

I will say that this is a bad choice of a target, if you are being honest here.
Chances of Cakes being chosen to make a kill, were pretty much nil if he is mafia.

I forgot Cakes claimed VT.
So. Makes sense as fakeclaimed target, doesn't make sense as actual target.
I'm no longer opposed to karma lynch.

camns angle to it is still nonsense thou.

Still opposed to short day, so don't expect a hammer any time soon.

I'll second the means if not the ends here, I guess. Can't mafia roles visit without making the kill, though?

In post 822, RadiantCowbells wrote:Well he can't be the cop because I'm the cop.

:\

OH.

Oh.

I'm really fucking glad I put off my evaluation of you. So are you claiming to have visited ckd?

In post 850, tictac wrote:
lokiben:
Still looks clearly towny to me, but if cakes and Elyse are both town then loki is probably scum for "I strongly believe this to be TvS"
I did dislike him telling me what I can and can't find relevant in this game, but I have been told similar things by townies before.
town for now.

If you can find some way to turn that bit about farmer relevant, I'd be pleasantly surprised. Mostly surprised. Also, why didn't you hop on Elyse for going after ika with the same confidence? On the off chance that I'm wrong and it's TvT, an FoS for pushing preparing to push for my lynch while similarly ignoring Elyse, among other things which I plan to bring up in my scumread of you this weekend.

Lokiben · Post Post #867 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:02 pm

@tictac

Oh, I see, you were defending yourself, not scumreading farmer. I think.

Performer · Post Post #868 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:04 pm

VOTE COUNT 2.03

curiouskarmadog (3): camn, Elyse, SirCakez
camn (3): curiouskarmadog, RadiantCowbells, Some Random Mafia Player
Elyse (1): Zulfy
a plain farmer (1): tictac
UpTooLate (1): a plain farmer

No vote (2): Lokiben, UpTooLate

With 11 players alive, it takes 6/11 votes to lynch.

For deadlines & notes, please refer to this post – post 3 !

Lokiben · Post Post #869 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:59 pm

Wait, on second thought, RC's claim was totally unnecessary, what the hell?

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #870 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:00 pm

I am a little piggy who goes to the market.

ISO · Post Post #871 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:04 pm

I missed RC's claim whoops. I'll buy it for now.

a plain farmer · Post Post #872 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:08 pm

Reads for Cowbells:

Lokiben - town - I disagree with his scumread on Elyse, but the reasoning for it, as well as his posts in general, have a townie vibe about them.

camn - town-leaning - I thought she was very town on Day 1. On Day 2 I find the trail of her reasoning on CKD peculiar, but I'm not sure if it's indicative of alignment.

tictac - null - He's pushed a couple things today that I doubt a scum would bother to touch. The things he's pushing aren't particularly indicative of anything so he may be trying to waste the town's time, but I don't think so.

CKD - scum-leaning - My position is unchanged from 818. I still don't like the initial rolefishing and the reaction to his vote, but he hasn't done anything else scummy. He hasn't been particularly townie either, though. I'd say he's 3rd scummiest in this game right now after SirCakez and UTL.

SirCakez - scum - He's still top scum tier. He still has a proclivity for grasping. Look at his interpretations of tictac's posts. Tictac notices that I had Mini "1758" in my list of ika's meta games. In SirCakez's post, this becomes a "scumslip". Tictac raises questions about my knowledge of the subforums of the threads I referenced. In SirCakez's post, this becomes me "fak[ing] a meta dive".

ISO · Post Post #873 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:13 pm

If the games you referenced came out of a completely different subforum then the one you said something's obviously wrong there.
And I'm pretty sure tictac was calling that a scum slip as well, he just didn't say the exact word.

Elyse · Post Post #874 (ISO) » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:26 pm

tl;dr this page