Newbie 1677 (Game Over)

[Natsu]

Hey guys. I've played exactly one game of forum mafia before, and it was nearly a decade ago on another site. I've been reading up on the wiki and looked at a couple of other newbie games. Still had a couple questions though about this site's style.

What is the policy on attempting to PM other players? Are you allowed to try and form town bonds or gain information outside the thread?

And secondly, how often does "scheduled posting" work? By that I mean someone declaring a need for everyone to compromise a time where we can all post at once, and then posing a question or comment that they would like to hear a non-planned reaction to by virtue of time stamps. As an example, say there is a cop in the game and the first night has passed. A scheduled posting could be issued to then give a command like this: Everyone post a town power role and what you did with it last night. If you actually are a PR then don't lie. My logic here is that this allows the power roles to stay concealed while still being able to reveal a "will" of what they have been doing in case they die later. Or is there a better way of doing this without outing them?

I haven't really seen either of these tactics in action from what I've perused on this site, but they were an important aspect of the only game I played on another site.

[Natsu]

PROTIP - it's best to use the vote tags

Code: Select all

[v]BadGuy1234[/v]

Nice to know. What's the hotkey for unvotes? Any other important ones?

[Natsu]

@mykonian, Are you saying the VTs shouldn't claim VT if they're about to get lynched? Or are you just saying don't reveal unless you absolutely have to?

The latter. Not saying you can't claim, but people should be a bit careful with it. On first sight it doesn't look like you are giving away all that much with a VT claim, but that's not the whole truth, so you have to be as careful with them as with pr claims.

@ Roku

Expanding on this, I think the idea is that mafia is more likely to claim Vanilla than a power role. Claiming a PR can lead to your insta-lynch if that PR ends up dying later. Also, it might let everyone secure safer lynches so as not to lynch a PR, which narrows things down and might allow mafia to kill our PR's more easily.

[Natsu]

@
RNG Spat out a 6!

So.... VOTE: Natsu

Ruku, sorry for the misspelling above.
Just curious, would you have voted yourself if your RNG landed on 8?

[Natsu]

Ok, should we get to work on finding the scum now we've all made random votes.

Unvote

Well this is an odd thing to say since we haven't all made random votes yet. I've posted but haven't yet decided on my RVS target. And jachawk doesn't seem to realize that the game has started yet.

I'm going to vote you for now due to seemingly trying to accelerate past RVS and into a part of the game that we are too uninformed to handle.

VOTE: tojam2

[Natsu]

I already mentioned that I'm new. I played one other game on another site that operated very differently, and this was nearly a decade ago. I didn't even take it seriously there. It was kind of hard to keep track of with 150 people, so I remember myself semi-lurking around until I got lynched halfway through for not posting enough.

[Natsu]

Yeah, lol. I think the mafia count was around 30 players. Are those mega-games not a thing here?

[Natsu]

Yeah, lol. I think the mafia count was around 30 players. Are those mega-games not a thing here?

Jeez. How long do those games usually last? I could imagine a whole year.

I think it was several months. I managed to find it and browse through it a little. I actually had significantly less posts than I remembered during it, and most people barely posted at all. One thing that was kind of cool about it though was how the mod gave clues towards the mafia members. For instance, the mafia night kills would be elaborate paragraphs of text, detailing the death scene. And the mod took a small piece of the mafia member's username, avatar, profile information, or signature and twisted it into a clue of some sort. There was also an initial mayor-voting segment where people had to try to pick a mayor who would gain extra powers, and the mafia wanted to get their own man into the position of course.

[Natsu]

@Natsu: Yes, you are too poorly uninformed, so read the wiki!!! And I don't want to waste the first day getting killed by the scum trying to fool you all, yes Natsu, I'm pointing the finger at you, you literally jumped on a bandwagon against me when you are 'too uninformed to handle' and claim I'm trying to skip the RVS, how do you even know what that means if you're not informed well enough, I've been playing since before Christmas and know less than you!!

First of all, when I used the term "uninformed," I meant that to apply to all of us in that we are all too uninformed to handle a "post-RVS stage of the game." What I meant with that sentence was that we aren't past the RVS stage at that point, and accelerating past it would just leave us in a confused state with a need to go back to square one.

Second of all, in what way did I jump on a bandwagon? I was literally the first person to vote for you. I could understand this point if Ruku came out roasting you for it, and then subsequently voted on you. But he kind of gave you a slap on the wrist while I used it to form my very first RVS vote.

Finally, I want to acknowledge that you do bring up a good point about my perceived experience, even though it was born out of a misinterpretation. I might seem informed and experienced while at the same time not knowing a basic abbreviation or something. I'm just as new to this game as you guys, but I have really soaked in a lot of information as I waited for this game to start. I think it is pretty obvious that I would look experienced in some areas and inexperienced in others. Most of what I've learned so far was how people in newbie threads react to self votes, some of the more basic abbreviations/acronyms, and of course the basic wiki strategy. If it looks suspicious, like an alt account or something, just know that I've read through about 5 other newbie games.

To all the new people: How many games have you read through?

[Natsu]

Theory discussion isn't everything, but at least it's a discussion of sorts!

@mykonian (or anyone else who wants to answer), I've almost finished skimming through other peoples games, and trying to look at their MOs. Would it be appropriate to mention something like "(user) has played like this before in previous games." or are outside games not for discussion?

I've definitely seen this sort of thing in some of the newbie games I've looked at. People will do an in depth read-through of someone's game library, and elaborate on how they acted when they were scum vs. when they were town. As long as the game is completed it should be alright.

I don't like someone being at L-1 this early. I've seen some newbie games where a townie drops the hammer in the dumbest way possible.

UNVOTE:

[Natsu]

I looked at Tojam2's other games. It appears he replaced late into both of them and played very similarly to how he is now. He seems to be a very OMGUS-ey player all-around, because he acted the same way to accusation in both games. In the newbie game he was a vanilla townie, and in the blitz game he was a werewolf. I'm actually completely in the dark about what a werewolf team is or how they operate, anyone care to break it down?

As of now, my current read on Tojam2 is that he is leaning town but just seems to have a poor playstyle.
For everyone else: I'm just waiting for more posts; there's so little to go on now.

[Natsu]

is asking too many questions

This is the first I've heard of it being a bad thing.

Lol, that actually sounds kind of hilarious when you crop it like that. I can totally picture a mafia member going on about someone "asking too many questions" or "sticking their nose where it doesn't belong."

[Natsu]

Nice, this thread is finally exploding. I'm going to post some thoughts on the recent developments:

-Breakout between Mocha and PC is weird to me. I'm not really sure where I stand on "asking too many questions can make mafia look town."
108 is odd to me because isn't the quotation above a form of meta analysis? Maybe I'm just not understanding, but it seems like PC is authoring his own meta tool there, or perhaps Mocha is just trying to make it look like a (ridiculous) meta rule of thumb. I'm currently very uncertain about these two.

Tojam2's play seems really weird, but I think he is starting to fall in line with the "so bad he can't be scum" thing. He seems to be just as clueless in his other games on here (no offense), so I'm thinking he is an average town-lean currently.
Minor question Tojam2, when you make your reads list why are you saying "Natsu and the rest."? You are lumping me in with two largely lurky players and then saying "useful comments etc. - neutral."

Hawkleader, Eventi, and Jachawk are WAY too lurky for my tastes. I think it especially looks bad on the former two because they are SE's. I would think players with more experience would be more proactive.

Mykonian is the IC and I'm having the hardest time reading him. He makes good points occasionally, but some things he has been doing seem really suspect. First of all, he hounds Ruku for using the RNG whereas I was just prodding him about it. I can let that slide, after all I hounded Tojam2 while Ruku prodded him. What does stand out is how sure of himself he seems. "We shouldn't let ruku get away with murder here!"

I like Mykonian's thoughts on Tojam2, but he kind of loses me with 100. It seems excessively wordy like he is trying to bury something, and beyond that, what are we supposed to take from it? I don't see anyone going around acting like "super town," and I haven't really noticed that as a strategy employed by mafia in the other games I've observed. The mafia I have observed thus far seem to use short one-liners quite often.
Mykonian, what is your vote on PC based on. Because from my perspective right now, it looks like you are trying to sneak a vote in on PC and bury it with that text wall that makes a new page.

Finally, before I started writing this I was going to say that Ruku was my strongest town lead. However, I just noticed that the 107 can be construed as tunnelling on Tojam2. There's nothing I really disagree with about his assessment there, but it does seem to dig deep. Tojam also hasn't even tried to fight back on that stuff. But still, Ruku seems very town-leaning to me. I just like his attitude I guess.

Summary:
-Hawkleader, Jachawk, and Eventi need to post more to be factored in.
-Mykonian is a medium scum read for tripping over common newbie behavior from Ruku, but excusing Tojam's newbie behavior. Also made a seemingly unsolicited attempt to inform us on mafia-based strategy that doesn't even seem to apply to most newbie games.
-Ruku seems largely town, but it's based on feel I guess. Possible tunnelling attempt on Tojam2.
-Tojam2 seems to be either town that can't handle pressure or newb-mafia that's in over his head.
-PC vs Mocha: I'm not touching this one just yet.

[Natsu]

@Natsu, You have a convincing list of reads, but you haven't found anywhere to put your vote. Why is this?

I'm kind of hesitant about non-RVS voting with many players not playing the game yet. Is that a bad thing?

Okay, so hawkleader might be rolefishing as pointed out by Mocha. But where is this rolefishing from Tojam that PC is talking about?

[Natsu]

I'm kind of hesitant about non-RVS voting with many players not playing the game yet. Is that a bad thing?

It can be, if you're too conservative with your vote, and aren't pushing enough, it can be seen as not scumhunting. At least that's what happened to me in my previous game.

Yeah, I think it's just in my nature to not want to accuse without hard evidence. I am kind of leaning on voting mykonian right now. I think I read somewhere that the IC has like a 90% chance of being night-killed first. If this is true, then it may help to get rid of a possible lightning rod first. I'm only worried that mykonian is a power role and that he is acting sketchy so the mafia keeps him around, thus letting him get some mileage out of his ability.

I'm going to go with hawkleader for now. Very few posts and none have seemed like town to me. Plus there's the potential role-fishing on Tojam.

VOTE: hawkleader3

[Natsu]

I think I read somewhere that the IC has like a 90% chance of being night-killed first.

I'm 2nd or 3rd in most scumlists as far as I can see. I think scum is fine keeping me around for a while. I think the only reason I'm getting killed at all right now is if they are under no suspicion at all and all they have to worry about is a new suspicion on them, for which they might take aim at a more experienced player. Otherwise, unless you lynch me, I fear you are stuck with me

This sounds pretty bad to be honest. If you are mafia then it's the perfect excuse for never getting night-killed.

What defines a post as not seeming town? I think any post that isn't seen as scummy is town, so if that's what you are trying to say, it would be clearer if it was written as "every post by hawkleader3 seems scummy to me" so I can ask the obvious follow-up question "How?".

I'm not sure I agree with this. I feel like there can be more neutral posts and reactions as well as genuinely townie ones. So while your posts aren't particularly scummy, many of the early ones seem like basic theory exposition.

Mocha you just crossed the line. You never talk about focal points.

What in the world are you talking about? What's a focal point and how did he cross that line?

[Natsu]

I've also got a little twinge about

Natsu

but I think that may be to do with the relative speed of his vote on hawkleader following Ruku's vote, despite mykonian having been his scum read. Going to think that one over a bit more.

Nice to have you aboard Lia. I thought I explained that I didn't want to lynch the IC on the first day for a couple reasons. Without actually checking back, I realize I might not have made my thought process totally clear on that. I suspect that mykonian is acting scummy because he is a PR and wants to avoid night kills. I guess I really shouldn't be saying that, but I feel like we are in a good spot with keeping him around through the first day phase.

[Natsu]

While I'm not sure if Hawk is scum, I do think I have seen enough to know he might not be the best D1 lynch. After analyzing PC some more, I think he might be a better lynch target.

UNVOTE:

I want to keep Mykonian around for one day, I just have a feeling. But PC seems really suspect. He has been fairly aggressive towards mochaman, and hasn't really responded to other people questioning him. For instance, I asked him what he meant about mocha crossing the line and he ignored it. I also get the feeling that he is trying to butter me up. Literally every post is a one-liner, but that may be his playstyle. I'm going to try and find time for reading another game of his. I also find it kind of weird that he seems so sure about mochaman but then jumps on the hawkleader wagon opportunistically.

~Intent to cast vote on phantomcobalt

[Natsu]

Sorry for being away, been a bit busy. I think I'm finally going to vote for PC and leave it there throughout the deadline. He acts like he knows exactly who the mafia is, which doesn't seem common to me for a town to know this on Day 1. I tried looking at his other games but it appears that they are all ongoing.

VOTE: PhantomCobalt

[Natsu]

It's mostly just the fervor you seem to have in attacking mocha and lia.

[Natsu]

Yeah, the lines are really starting to blur to me for Tojam2. He has been making repeated town-slips, which I'm still not sure are due to absolute noobishness or if they're planned.

Looking back at the chart, it seems like we're in a very bad spot. With a Jailkeeper gone, that means we either have nothing but vanilla townies, or the only power role is bulletproof with a mafia roleblocker. Can the roleblocker stop the bulletproof vest from applying? Because if they can, then that means their roleblocker is just going to keep blocking the same target that they attack, which brings us right back to not having power roles. I'm assuming it works like that, or is there a rule that a passive ability can't be roleblocked?

Another role question: If the Jailkeeper actually visited a mafia member, would that have prevented the kill or anything? I was kind of just wondering if we could maybe deduce innocence of someone by guessing who PC may have went for.

[Natsu]

Actually, looking back at the ISO, I guess I was just reading his general misunderstandings as townslips. He just seems to be way too clueless to be mafia to me. Here's the three things he has misunderstood so far:

1. Not knowing what RVS is or when it's over.
2. Completely misunderstanding what L-X is.
3. Thought each mafia member gets a kill a piece.

While I've had some pretty newby questions in this thread, I've always made it explicit that I'm just asking a game-related question. On all three of those counts, though, Tojam2 has kind of assumed that he wasn't making an error in his understandings.

[Natsu]

Sorry I haven't been talking much, things have been picking up with work and school.

The thing I am trying to work out is how the mafia knew PC was a power role. Was it really random chance that they hit our one power role, or in the case of the column, our best power role? The way I see it, PC was a poor night kill target because he was looking like he was going to get himself lynched soon anyways. He was making enemies with a lot of people over little stuff, I guess to apply pressure. It's actually kind of funny to think of how Mocha or Tojam would react to him coming out with a Jailerkeeper claim and calling someone out.

During Day 1, I kind of assumed that mykonian was a power role, which I alluded to in a couple other posts. I didn't want to spell it out, but I definitely didn't want to lynch him Day 1 because of two majors reasons:

1. He is the IC, and I believe this makes him an HVT. The mafia would benefit to get rid of the more experienced players. Therefore, I wanted to see if he would be a lightning rod for a night kill, which would be impossible if we lynched him.
2. I thought he was a power role.

The reason I thought he was a power role is this:
He was working himself up to be one of the scummiest players in the game during Day 1. Sure, Jachawk and hawkleader were lurking, PC was mouthing off one-liners at people, Tojam was being Tojam, and I don't know what Lia was doing, but it somehow got her rallied against. But I felt like mykonian was drawing a lot of heat for the purpose of making himself a scum-read, which would give him the time he needed to use a PR ability.

Needless to say, I'm still quite surprised by PC's flip. It still makes sense why PC acted that way, for the very reason I outlined above. But it makes me more suspicious about mykonian.

But still, how did they know about PC?

I'm going to post here what my next steps are: I'm going to try and look at another game from mykonian, and I'm going to look at PC's iso again to see if I missed anything.

A question I would like to ask to everyone, who was your prediction on the nightkill after Lia flipped green?
I thought it was going to be either me, ruku, or mykonian.

[Natsu]

I definitely want to know that myself Mocha. It's kind of awkward considering either of the mafia could kill, but it might give us a clue? I strongly suspect that PC targeted you with his jail ability.

[Natsu]

Hmm, you may have a point there. I just remembered that I read somewhere that IC's are killed first in 90% of newbie games. Maybe I'm putting too much stock into it.

Ruku makes a good point about Tojam. I was of the opinion that he is pretty damn likely to be a town, but I wouldn't want him in lylo at all. But thinking back to that one game where he was a werewolf, he just as easily could be scum here too.

[Natsu]

I did a bit more browsing.

My opinion on mykonian has changed. Yesterday I thought he was almost assuredly scum. After looking at the other game, it does seem that he plays differently there as scum. His posts seem a lot more helpful in this game. My read on him was most likely to be mafia, but now I think he's a town-lean that I might be okay with in lylo.

Speaking of lylo, let's keep in mind that we are in it if we hit town with our next lynch, assuming mafia doesn't hit a bulletproof.

I browsed PC's ISO again. I can't see a single thing that would point to him being a power role. It's interesting that he changed his opinion on mochaman after digging in so hard early game. There's also an unsubstantiated scum-lean towards jachawk, which I kind of share due to low post content.

Tojam2 was read as null by PC, which is also how I feel right now. I also have to mention that Ruku has creeped into null range for me. He did a swift hammer on Lia without letting her speak, though time was running out anyways. Ruku was my biggest town-read before but I'm not sure anymore.

Mochaman might still be scum despite PC's change of heart. It seems a bit too obvious, but I guess mocha might have just wanted to night kill PC for being so aggressive towards him early on.

I still need to dissect hawkleader and jachawk. I'm not ready to vote now guys. I know everyone hates me for it but I just like to cover all my bases before I throw it around.

[Natsu]

oh, thankfully not all that much happened. I'd like to repeat that natsu should sheep me if he indeed saw sense in thinking tojam was scummy. I'd rather have a partner on the wagon than a supporter off it.

At this point I'm thinking the mafia team is either mykonian and mochaman or Tojam2 and a hawk. I do think mochaman is innocent though. I guess I've finally seen enough to where I can say tojam might be my best vote. I really thought he was just being a newbish town the whole time, but with his playstyle he seems dangerous to keep around.

VOTE: Tojam2

[Natsu]

Why is that?

[Natsu]

@ Mocha, mostly because he scumread you hard at the beginning. I actually missed where he townread you at the time of me posting that.

[Natsu]

Just to answer some of the questions towards me. I voted Tojam because I wanted to see if he did something stupid at L-1, and to see how mykonian would react to it. While mykonian seems highly suspicious to me too, he is also extremely good at deflecting suspicions. His last point kind of makes sense. If he is bussing Tojam, then there is just no way he wins as scum. That makes 4 town and 1 scum after the night. And as far as I'm aware mykonian would be both my and Ruku's primary suspect if such a thing went down.

Updating reads list:

Hawkleader is now very suspicious to me after looking at his ISO for the first time. He was applying aggression on mochaman very early on, and is still suspicious of him at this point.

Mochaman seems to almost assuredly be town. Starting day 2 he has been prying everyone and piecing a lot of things together.

I think Ruku is town also. He seems to be approaching the game similarly to myself. I also agree that mykonian seemed to overreact to Tojam's newb post in 265. Tojam has been doing this stuff all game, it's just his character at this point.

Jackhawk has offered very little to the game other than singling out stray posts from people and scum-reading them for it. I don't think nearly enough pressure has been applied to him for his pseudo-lurking.

That leaves Tojam and Mykonian. If you haven't figured it out, my read on Tojam is that he is town. He acts clueless, but it seems really consistent. Mykonian on the other hand bothers me. I'm glad that Ruku is finally starting to notice it too. But I still can't help but keep mykonian in null category because he does make excellent points as well.

So I am scum-reading Hawkleader, scum-leaning Jachawk, and flopping around between null and scum for mykonian. I won't exclude the possibility that Tojam is scum either. I wouldn't be super surprised if he flipped mafia like I would if mochaman or Ruku did. So with all of that said.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jachawk

[Natsu]

That's an extremely helpful post Ruku. I strongly agree with your reads.

Also, "jachawk is w/e for me" is triggering alarms. The biggest lurker is just whatever to you? I mean, sure, he is kind of null to me also, but why not apply pressure at this point?

[Natsu]

Could you elaborate on that MochaMan? I have hawkleader as a slight scum lead, and I definitely trust you as town at this point.

"Thankfully we're at a stage where we can afford to sacrifice someone to prove/disprove scum." Tojam2

My initial reaction to this was that it may well have been the scummiest thing said all game. After all, I already spelled out that we are in LyLo if we hit a town again. It seemed like he was just trying to push us towards that 3 town and 2 mafia outcome by offering up such a gambit. But after thinking about it, I think he may have just been saying this in the literal sense. Technically, we wouldn't lose the game on the spot if we lynch town again, but I think that would make things unrealistically difficult. I think I've already established how I don't want to see Tojam around during a LyLo scenario, or the subsequent 2 town vs. 1 maf that would follow.

But Tojam, could you elaborate on your "if X is Y, Z is W" scenarios? I'm not quite sure I follow.

[Natsu]

Well, I'm glad that Ruku is starting to see what I've been seeing in mykonian now. I don't know how mocha is still town-reading him at this point. I'm going to flip scum priorities after this last exchange.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: mykonian

[Natsu]

Mykonian, you are kind of misrepresenting our point. It's not that Jachawk is remarkable to us, it's that he is not offering too much information. And your relentless defense for what is typically considered anti-town behavior is shocking to me.

[Natsu]

I'm speaking for Ruku there because he seems to be reasoning about this similarly to myself. This is our first game, and what does the beginner's guide in the wiki say? Things like:

"posting is generally seen as pro-Town while not posting simply lets the other players continue their trains of thought without interference (which is usually only useful for scum)."
"Note that if if the game is at a standstill, lurking is profoundly harmful to the Town."

You should know that beginners like us who read the rules will likely play/react like we did.

[Natsu]

I guess I might as well post the whole argument.

What makes that natsu is so convinced ruku is town that he's convinced he knows ruku's entire thoughts that he can talk for him? It's because there's not that lingering bit of doubt that ruku could be scum. Pointing to the wiki as an autority after that is just icing on the cake, I'm worried about natsu's actions, not the wiki's.

I can barely take this seriously, but I'll refute it anyways. I feel like this is cherry-picking at best. Ruku expressed confidence in me being town earlier than I did. And beyond that, you expressed supreme confidence in Mocha being town. I think you're just trying to take my plural usage in that post and run with it. Ruku didn't even seem to disagree, and in fact backed up the point that your response to lurky behavior was the issue.

[Natsu]

Jachawk has become less suspicious for me since his latest explanatory post. I am now favoring mykonian strongly over him. I do agree with mykonian's assessment of Tojam, though. Tojam is playing way too loose and aggressive to be scum to me, in addition to other details already covered. Hawkleader's spot is perhaps my most neutral read, so I guess I will have to wait for Maestro to post something last-minute. But I doubt I would see him as more scum-leaning than Mykonian.

Once again, I am town-reading Ruku highly because his inclinations and tendencies seem to be mirroring my own. And this has been the case since the start of the game. Mochaman has stayed hovering around neutral range for me, but town-leaning.

[Natsu]

Thought that was a hammer for a second, lol. This puts Maestro (back) at L-1.

[Natsu]

Regarding Tojam2, I personally think he's town just by how recklessly he is playing. I have to agree with mykonian on that regard: he has been sticking his neck out every opportunity he can get. He has been making newb moves all game to the point where I am kind of ignoring him. Also, Ruku's post 334 points to him being a bad partner for most mafia.

[Natsu]

LOL, you're right. I completely forgot that Tojam voted him. He didn't even give a real reason or much of a comment to go with it, that I just kind of forgot it happened.

I remember a while back Mykonian made a point that he would be bussing tojam pretty hard if they were a scum team. This was after PC and Lia died and there was seven of us. I felt like this was a good objective point, and is among my main reason for thinking Tojam is not partnered with Mykonian. If Mykonian bussed Tojam that early there would be virtually no chance of him winning.

[Natsu]

Alright nice, I think I like MyLo over LyLo.

Could you explain why Maestro wouldn't have killed Mocha, Tojam? I browsed Maestro's posts and didn't see any tunneling on Mocha. Or was there something that Hawkleader did before that I didn't check?

[Natsu]

Haha you think so? Our game actually looks fairly organized compared to some of the other newbie games I have read here where almost everyone replaces out.

[Natsu]

Chiming in to say that I agree with jachawk's assessment. I'm going to hold off on my vote until the people Jachawk is calling out reply to his points.

[Natsu]

I'll go ahead and put it out there that I think Tojam may have been scum this whole time. I know I've been his biggest defender but that stealth-vote that got buried is the last straw to me. While I am still suspicious of Maestro for hammering, I think it was more of a shady move for Tojam make mykonian L-1 without saying it, and also without saying anything at all. I didn't realize Maestro's vote was a hammer either. Though in hindsight I wasn't complaining as I really thought mykon was scum.

[Natsu]

I went back through the ISO's to see if I could predict your assessment. I think your scum-reading of me with hawkleader/Maestro is coming from the fact that we barely acknowledged each other around that time. I was still focused on the players that were putting out the most content. If you recall, I then shifted my attention to Jachawk and continued to ignore hawkleader. This does look kind of bad in hindsight, but it was mainly because hawkleader was slightly less lurky than Jachawk for me.

I'm actually fairly surprised that you wouldn't have me and Ruku as a scum team. I have been expressing my obv-town readings of Ruku for a while now.

As for Ruku and Jachawk being a scum team, again, I am guessing this is due to their lack of acknowledging each other around Day 2.

Could you explain where you see me sheeping many arguments? I feel like my playstyle might be getting misconstrued here. I tend not to spark the initial fires of pressure, or even start the first vote, because it just kind of feels bad to me. I feel more comfortable waiting for everyone's input so that I actually have something to analyze.

[Natsu]

Been fairly busy lately and will continue to be the next couple days. Prod dodging for now.

[Natsu]

It seems Mochaman is pretty set on me and Ruku being scum. I was kind of hoping his obv-town status would be coupled with more in-depth reads. I still feel pretty comfortable with Ruku as town. and Jachawk has gotten a little better to me but I still have him as a scum lean. Maestro's play has been impressing me actually. I think I'm most confident in him being town behind Ruku and Mocha. Tojam is possibly the shakiest player here to me. His playstyle isn't much different than that other game where he was scum; he wasn't afraid to look silly and get into trouble there either from what I remember.

I wish I could do more ISO browsing but it's a busy weekend for me. I'm voting Tojam for now and hopefully the pace of this game can speed up and give mocha some more clues.
VOTE: Tojam2

[Natsu]

Natsu, it was either you and him, or him and Maestro as scum.

You expect me to just take that at face value? You haven't explained at all why those pairs are the only two options, and why jachawk and yourself are somehow on the same level of innocence as mochaman.

[Natsu]

You make a good case Witchhunter, even though I'm suspect number two.

VOTE: Maestro

[Natsu]

I was sweating bullets at your catch-up posts Witch Hunter. You were so unbelievably close on a few of them, particularly the active + inactive scum team thing. I thought for sure I was getting lynched next, but Maestro got super antagonistic towards you for some reason, and made himself look very scummy for seemingly forgetting that you were confirmed town.
I also was really hoping people would forget about my early post about acting "super town." Even at the time, I was acting like it and said the opposite in order to divert attention, but the polarization was plainly there. You were really the first to pick up on that.

If Mochaman stayed, I think we might have still won. I think town was leaning towards a Tojam lynch anyways.
Great game guys.
~ Sincerely Natsu, The towniest town to have ever towned.