Open 638: Friends and Enemies! (And Enemies!) - GAME OVER!

[Creature]

We should kill the story.

VOTE: Killthestory

[Creature]

Caught scum is caught.

Agree here.

VOTE: randomidget

[Creature]

Why is DrDolittle voting himself then?

[Creature]

{randomidget}
{Creature, Kop}
{BTD6, Masquerade}
{Charloux}
{Kasumeat, Javajoe}
{Killthestory, karnos}

One.

I think ranger is town. I just finished a game with you that you town read me the entire game when I was scum, and you should know I am playing nothing like I did that game.

So she must scum read you if you're town?

[Creature]

I am thinking Ranger did this intentionally.

[Creature]

I am thinking Ranger did this intentionally.

Uh, what?

The read on the moderator.

[Creature]

Do you at least know what post I am talking about?

[Creature]

Nvm.

I forgot about post 77. Still quite thought it was a reaction test.

[Creature]

Mod gets post #100!

Sad

[Creature]

I am seeing Ranger as town. I believe she usually makes not-so-well-thought gut reads. The Kuroi read seems weird, but I don't see scum motivation behind it.

[Creature]

If it's obvious that his vote is ridiculous, then your defensive is really strange. I mean if it's obvious then you don't have to defend at all.
-1 town points for you

How many town points everyone has?

[Creature]

I'm also suspicious of KTS right now for the same reasons, but that readlist by Ranger with the Moderator in it is super sketchy. I've never that specific slip before, but it smacks of "I'm not really thinking about these reads, I'm constructing them" which is scummy as fuck. Every time I've seen players give reads on dead players, it's been a scumslip.

VOTE: Ranger

I am seeing Ranger as town. I believe she usually makes not-so-well-thought gut reads. The Kuroi read seems weird, but I don't see scum motivation behind it.

There isn't motivation behind mistakes.

Funny.

[Creature]

Current leans:

BTD6_maker, Charloux, Masquerade, Ranger

DrDolittle's slot, Killthestory, Kop, randomidget

Javajoe24, karnos, Kasumeat

[Creature]

VOTE: Kasumeat

I can't understand you, you say Ranger's mistake is scummy but you say there's no motivation at all.

[Creature]

Nvm.

I forgot about post 77. Still quite thought it was a reaction test.

What kind of reaction test would this be?

I believe she was testing to see if someone was paying attention.

[Creature]

Nvm.

I forgot about post 77. Still quite thought it was a reaction test.

What kind of reaction test would this be?

I believe she was testing to see if someone was paying attention.

*would be

[Creature]

Well i like using "rating" for my reads, which goes from -10 to 10. Everyone starts at 0 and depending on their posts it changes.

So where everyone is at currently?

[Creature]

Both of these points seem null, so I am interested in knowing where the town read comes from?

Her readlist, it looks like she's actually following her readlist, not just making noise. I am not counting the Kuroi read.

And how is paying attention indicative of anything?

It usually is. How would you see someone sheeping your readlist without noticing something?

[Creature]

Defending your teammate D1 is suicidal, but I guess that's difference in playstyles.

Not if there's potentially a MYLO.

[Creature]

I've already explained my Ranger scumread, but I'll reiterate. Ranger admitted her own mistake with the read list. And while I do believe her reason she gave for why she made the mistake, I think it's a mistake that scum are more likely to make than town. Also, there's the fact that she's supposedly this savant-like scumreader and she's wrong as fuck about me but still maintains her stance. I expect better of The Legendary Ranger. The one thing that gives me a shred of doubt about her is that she might just be a spiteful and petty town like I, admittedly, have been this game too. But unlike her, I'll admit that my mistakes are a reasonable reason to vote me. I don't think the wagon against me is necessarily scum-driven.

I don't agree lynching someone over a mistake. I feel like this was an NAI mistake.

Kop is also scummy as fuck. His entire posting history, 3 days into this game, is one RV plus one vote on me with the sole justification being that I wasn't reading carefully,

immediately after Creature just admitted that he didn't read the thread carefully.

And after that, Creature defended Kop's vote by saying that Kop had other reasons to vote for me when Kop's #104 explicitly states that it was the sole reason. If that isn't buddying, I don't know what is. This hasn't been a low-content game so the only reason to be lurking that hard is if you're scum with no pressure on you.

Excuse me, I didn't defend Kop's vote.

[Creature]

No point keeping my vote on Karnos, for now.

Why not?

VOTE: karnos

[Creature]

Weak town: Creature, Masquerade, Randomidget
Null: Javajoe, Ranger, Karnos, Charloux,

Kuroi <3

Weak scum: KillTheStory, Kasumeat, Ozymandias

My reads are fairly weak as of now.

VOTE: KillTheStory

And Kop?

Kop has posted so little that it was barely worth trying to read him.

So what differs him from the other null reads?

[Creature]

^

VOTE: BTD6_Maker

[Creature]

town-who-thought-he-was-scum

If he thought he was scum, why would he claim he's scum?

[Creature]

Do you think KTS vs BTD6 is SvW?

[Creature]

Meh

Sounds like coming from town that doesn't proofread their posts.

[Creature]

Scum that doesn't proofread their posts are most likely coming from a bad scum player or someone trying to pull a gambit.

[Creature]

VOTE: karnos

Pretty terrible entrance.

[Creature]

[quote="In post 302, Kasumeat"][/quote]
Then it's scum trying to look like a bad town.

[Creature]

So, should everybody check in and say they don't counterclaim?

[Creature]

If you want, then wait Kop check in.

[Creature]

Town Mason - Killthestory
Town Mason - Ranger
Town Mason - Kop
Vanilla Town - Creature
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town

Let's close this list then we can PoE.

[Creature]

Well, do you want to be mafia or werewolf?

[Creature]

Well, do you want to be mafia or werewolf?

Hell yes

Which one?

[Creature]

Javajoe

Since you're here, can you now do what town does?

[Creature]

Why would mason not have one of their members counterclaim and get one entire scum faction down?

[Creature]

Creature, do you think BTD is scum or VI?

Pretty sure that's not how a VI works.

[Creature]

I'd like to discuss other players before lynching BTD.

[Creature]

Opinions on this:

My meta is odd. I am read as scum when I am town, and town when I am scum. Every. Single. Game.

My meta is odd. I am read as scum when I am town, and town when I am scum. Every. Single. Game.

So in others words, you're town who is going to play scummy, or you're scum?

Not scum, and not playing scummy intentionally, but stuff happens and I am a lot less careful what I say as town so I come off as more scummy.

[Creature]

It's funny because he says he's a lot less careful to post as town, though, he's posting very little.

[Creature]

Why is Masquerade a strong town?

[Creature]

Because they are mason buddies

Huh what?

[Creature]

Another question, will you answer Masquerade's questions?

[Creature]

Scumteam 1 - BTD6_maker, Charloux
Scumteam 2 - Javajoe24, _______

Thoughts on Joe's teammate?

[Creature]

I currently have townleans on:
Masquerade
Kasumeat (lol)
karnos

so that leaves randomidget and Ozymandias.

[Creature]

Post 164 is so much buddying.

[Creature]

Both Ozy and random support Joe's lynch, both of them look like they're bussing, though, I currently believe Ozy is Joe's teammate.

[Creature]

What do you think of Ozymandias?

[Creature]

Hi, I am bored.

[Creature]

It should be pretty evident I don't play like that as scum, even if I am town read.

[Creature]

I don't feel like joining one of the main wagons unless we're going to lynch them right now.

BTD6 will make more scummy posts and I don't think Javajoe will want to spew.

[Creature]

I believe Ozymandias is most likely sided with BTD6 rather than Javajoe right now. It could make sense having BTD6 reading me as town so his partner can easily tinfoil me.

[Creature]

Town Mason - Killthestory
Town Mason - Ranger
Town Mason - Kop
Vanilla Town - Creature
Vanilla Town - Kasumeat
Vanilla Town - karnos
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Scumteam 1 - BTD6_Maker
Scumteam 1 - Ozymandias
Scumteam 2 - Javajoe26
Scumteam 2

Undecided (in order from townier to scummier): Masquerade, randomidget, Charloux

[Creature]

I'd still like Javajoe26 to do as much spews as he can (or just confscum himself to not accidentally out his teammate).

[Creature]

I still want Javajoe26 to spew as much as he can.

[Creature]

Since we don't have much to do, what about we play "Let's meta" with Javajoe26?

(Town) Micro 586: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65483 (72 posts out of 1059 total)
(Scum) Micro 607: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=66255 (42 posts out of 728 total)
(Scum) Mini 1790: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66305 (48 posts out of 1098 total)
(Town, replaced out) Mini 1785B: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66274 (8 posts out of 1106 total)

[Creature]

I still feel like there's a chance we can read Javajoe24.

[Creature]

At least we should make him flail, because currently he's avoiding spews, which is technically scum.

[Creature]

It's quite bad we're in a MyLo since the start of the game.

[Creature]

This is if scum don't hit the same town/each other.

[Creature]

8:4
Mislynch
7:4
2 town deaths
5:4
Scum lynch
5:3
2 town deaths
3:3

[Creature]

How would town regain majority with 3:2:1?

[Creature]

Well, our ideal for now is seek BTD6's partner, which I don't think Javajoe is.

[Creature]

Javajoe24 - 5 - Ozymandias, Masquerade, randomidget, BTD6_maker, Karnos

I really feel BTD6's partner is somewhere here.

[Creature]

gg

I didn't expect a mason lie like this.

[Creature]

Guess that makes Kasumeat and Ozymandias strong town.

[Creature]

VOTE: Masquerade

[Creature]

but I don't want to play the waiting game, I feel like we have discussed enough.

[Creature]

I feel confident Javajoe will flip scum.

[Creature]

We should vote for a nightskip.

[Creature]

I think so.

[Creature]

Well, now we wait Kuroi who's at the wedding

[Creature]

Choose your own adventure

You're Joe, full name's Java Joe Parker. You're home choosing who to kill.
(a) Kill obvious town
(b) Find the real mason
(c) Stay 2 days breathing before the final lynch
(d) Go to Kuroi's wedding

[Creature]

Yes, was you scum?

[Creature]

Werewolf team almost never wins this setup, maybe because they howl too high?

[Creature]

BTD6_maker and Javajoe24 were obvious.

[Creature]

Should we play mafia within mafia?

[Creature]

I hope Java flips scum.

I like being part of easy games.

[Creature]

As long I am the winning side.

[Creature]

PMed

Did you receive a PM from Kuroi asking if you want to skip night?

[Creature]

Also, I believe Javajoe24 won't get a chance to post before being hammered like Masquerade.

[Creature]

If he is quick enough, he may manage to get a post in.

I wonder what he'll post, I don't think he's going to give decent reads.

[Creature]

Maybe he'll say he's usually scummy (and inactive) as town.

[Creature]

PMed

Did you receive a PM from Kuroi asking if you want to skip night?

Thanks and nope.

Strange, Kuroi PMed me asking if I am okay with the night being skipped, and he stated he needed everyone's okay.

[Creature]

Yes, it was the wedding thing.

[Creature]

N1 has already been skipped (it was supposed to end this morning, but it ended yesterday)

[Creature]

I don't know, that'd be great if Kuroi had a backup mod.

[Creature]

Masquerade - Killthestory, Creature, karnos, Ozymandias, Charloux

Not voting: Masquerade, Kasumeat, Javajoe24, Kop

Like a bird on the wire,
like a drunk in a midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free.

Masquerade has been lynched, he was a werewolf

Night 2 begins

Send me your night actions if you have any

Night will be skipped if everybody accepts

[Creature]

VOTE: Joe

gg I guess

[Creature]

Ozymandias: No

[Creature]

I think scum is between Charloux and karnos.

[Creature]

karnos then

[Creature]

I believe Ranger was trying to not buddy neither distance herself from her partner.

[Creature]

{randomidget}
{Creature, Kop}
{BTD6, Masquerade}
{Charloux}
{Kasumeat, Javajoe}
{Killthestory, karnos}

One.

{randomidget}
{Creature, Kop}
{Charloux, karnos, Kuroi}
{Killthestory}
{BTD6, Masquerade, Kasumeat, Javajoe}
Two.
VOTE: Masquerade.

{randomidget}
{Creature, Kop}
{Javajoe}
{Charloux, karnos}
{Killthestory}
{BTD6, Masquerade, Kasumeat}
Three.

Oh, whoops, that was meant to have a readslist.

{randomidget}
{Creature, Kop}
{Charloux, karnos, BTD6, Javajoe}
{Killthestory}
{Masquerade, Kasumeat}

{randomidget, Kop}
{Creature}
{Charloux, karnos, BTD6, Javajoe}
{Killthestory}
{Masquerade}
{Kasumeat}

Mod: I moved my vote to Masquerade, but I'm still listed on the Killthestory wagon.

Though,
VOTE: Kasumeat.
Masquerade's no townread, but his 117 puts him a tier above Kasumeat. (They were otherwise equal in scumminess until that point.)

{randomidget, Kop}
{Creature}
{BTD6}
{Charloux, karnos, Javajoe}
{Killthestory, Ozymandias}
{Masquerade}
{Kasumeat}

Site down time really didn't change much. This is where I'm at right now:
{randomidget, Kop, Killthestory}
{Creature}
{Charloux, karnos, Javajoe}
{Masquerade, BTD6}
{Ozymandias, Kasumeat}

[Creature]

Well, I find it weird Ranger always put Charloux and karnos together in her readlist.

[Creature]

I believe Ranger was trying to not buddy neither distance herself from her partner.

This applies to everyone alive, besides me.

He never had much interactions with anyone else alive, as far as I remember. So why Karnos over Charloux?

I thought Charloux's reaction at the end of Day 2 seemed town, when I can't get a read on karnos.

[Creature]

I actually agree with you. I don't think Charloux is scum; but I don't believe Karnos is scum either, so this leaves me with you.

What most of the players alive said when Javajoe was being lynched.

[Creature]

How confident are you in Karnos over Charloux?

Not much

[Creature]

I actually agree with you. I don't think Charloux is scum; but I don't believe Karnos is scum either, so this leaves me with you.

What most of the players alive said when Javajoe was being lynched.

Indeed, which is why I am not actually engaging you, instead of doing like with Joe and Masq.

Ranger did a good job setting up the mislynch, by the way, even though Joe's play did not help.

I am actually engaging*

Your initial vote seemed like pushing a quicklynch like we did with Masq and Java.

[Creature]

Why did you town read Ranger early D1?

How early?

If you mean by her first post, Ranger seemed to be town hunting there.

[Creature]

I am seeing Ranger as town. I believe she usually makes not-so-well-thought gut reads. The Kuroi read seems weird, but I don't see scum motivation behind it.

Here.

Yeah, gut reads. I hate when someone says gut reads are suspicious.

[Creature]

But how are they Town indicative?

They sometimes are. It's most likely a town member will use gut feelings rather than scum, who might be afraid of being called out for that.

[Creature]

Yes, I have completed one game as mafia goon and one game as serial killer, let me link these.

[Creature]

Mafia Goon (Micro 597): http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65858

Serial Killer (Open 629): http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=65645

[Creature]

And why do you feel they were Town indicative in this particular case?

Because I felt, I've already played with a town!Ranger, but never played with a scum!Ranger until this game.

[Creature]

Charloux looks town-aligned.

Some players, like me, really thought the mason team was KTS+Ranger+Kop.

[Creature]

Well, I am the safe lynch for your plan then, because I already claimed VT.

Though, I feel like we have the game already.

[Creature]

Do you guys think I am Mason or not?

I think.

[Creature]

Let's see:

So then both claimers get lynched and you've traded a scum for a mason which is a bad trade for the scum.

In a normal game, sure. In this game, one scum faction comes out clearly ahead in such an exchange.

Maybe it's still overall good for town, but it's even better for town if the 3 masons can drive a lynch into KTS without directly coming out, isn't it?

Whatever, just forget I brought it up. I think most likely KTS is indeed what he says he is.
-----------------------------

Back to scum hunting, I'm truly puzzled at the "kop is town" reads. Hiding so much is more often than not a scum tactic. And if kop does it every game, that certainly isn't indicative of him being town, it's just a null indication. So far ranger and KTS are the two pushing the idea that kop is obvious town...

Between the two, I trust ranger a bit less, especially given the recent discussion on KTS' role. Gotta put my vote where my mouth is-

VOTE: ranger

Obviously subject to change if anything comes out against KTS.

This game just tuned up a notch, Is this going to be massclaim day 1? (It's a rhetorical question, don't claim based on my post please)

I'll trust KTS is being honest, since if you aren't it would be a quick end when the real masons counter claim you.

UNVOTE: ranger
VOTE: kop

I just want some discussion, I am not trying to lynch kop just yet, I am just calling BS on the whole "hiding is normal and he is town" thing. There is no reason for town to hide.

kop is also mason, please unvote

Really?

kop isnt a mason but me and ranger r

Really?

Fine.

UNVOTE: kop

VOTE: Killthestory

You story just doesn't make sense anymore. I think you are scum. If your claims are true, I'm sure ranger and kop will rush to your support and lynch me, but at this point I'll take that risk.

[Creature]

Ozymandias

In the first post he just said he trusted Ranger less, but also stated he was subject to change.

In the second post he believes KTS and changes his vote to Kop, but this time with a reasoning (even if it looks weak). He didn't look to be wanting to change.

In the third post he distrusted KTS when he said Kop was also a mason.

[Creature]

Last point is actually townie, he gave good reason to distrust KTS. Or do you think they were not good reasons?

I don't see any reason. I just see him reacting with "Really?" and saying Ranger and Kop must support KTS and lynch him.

[Creature]

VOTE: Creature

Then vote karnos in LyLo

[Creature]

Geez, I'll have to wait 3-4 more days because Ozy doesn't want to lynch the real scum and the real scum will want a 48 hours night for breath.

[Creature]

lol I believe I am hammered

[Creature]

I never talk this freely as scum though

[Creature]

Lynch karnos tomorrow

[Creature]

No, I am not

[Creature]

Btw, can you vote nightskip? I don't want to wait 3+ days to see town win.

[Creature]

Hope one game I can survive to endgame without being carried.

[Creature]

Btw, is there any dead thread? I want to see it.

[Creature]

Hope Kop doesn't screw up.

[Creature]

Quite afraid he gets counterclaimed by karnos and becomes a ml bait.

[Creature]

No, he just claimed mason himself, but hopefully he has made a breadcrumb.

[Creature]

Guess karnos scumclaimed already.

[Creature]

Please, no

[Creature]

Can we reach 1000 posts before Kuroi locks this topic?

[Creature]

gg

Guess the strategy is not let Ozymandias lead.

[Creature]

Well, but why you called my case on karnos bullshit after I flipped town?