Mini 1804: Poker Mafia (Game Over)
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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If only we could lynch both. You grab one and I'll grab the other.In post 376, Infinity 324 wrote:I'd rather wagon faq as he's actually done scummy stuff while fire has done nothing.-
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BlueBloodedToffee Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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In post 377, Something_Smart wrote:@Infinity: you mentioned that MoI had made some towny posts. Can you direct me to them?Spoiler: MoI's push on RC
Those posts are more aggressive than I would expect for scum, and even though they are stretchy, they feel more like confbiased town than tunneling scum to me. I agreed with quite a few of them as well, though his argument has become worse since then. I also like his defense of MM, it echoes a lot of my thoughts. Again, I didn't like how little paranoia he has given he's pushed on RC 3 times before when RC was town, but his response makes me think he actually believes there's no good reason to be paranoid.
What do you think of RC, faq2, and qubixes?-
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
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Town, awkward and possibly scum (but probably not a good D1 lynch), and town
I definitely disagree that scum can't make terrible cases that look like confbias. I've been on both ends of forceful cases by scum on town that were weak at best. I think his defense of MM is contrived and could possibly be partner defending (one reason why I want an MoI flip today), and I agree that his thoughts on RC don't seem real.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Lol, I don't put much stock into your memory, MoI, no.In post 349, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Sorry if that hurts but the only thing memorable about you was your username.
Please, don't get all pissy. It's funny you coincidentally left out the games most valid to my point is all. Instead of letting just a speck of humility show with a response like, "RC, I don't recall this 'history' you are talking about at all, and I demand you back it up", you make this big show asking me, "why would I lie about something that was so easy for you to check"?In post 349, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Who isn’t reading now? I SPECIFICALLY mentioned I went through 3 pages of my topics looking for games we might have in common. Many of my games we didn’t but I needed to check them. This took me over one hour. Are you suggesting it isn’t reasonable for me to find 4 games after an hour of searching and conclude your point wasn’t valid?
Further, if it was "so easy" for you to go check, why are you now complaining about how it took you over an hour and that I'm being unreasonable to expect you actually stand by the words you yourself wrote?
I'd actually claim that 7 games is a fairly signifcant sample size considering the time span and the amount of games total. Perhaps not the cross-sectional levels of a DGB or Nachomamma, but relatively speaking it's something worth noting.In post 349, MagnaofIllusion wrote:So your statement (which I feel was yet another attempt to discredit my feelings on your slot) was that I attack you regardless of alignment. Small sample size of scum games shows me never attacking you. Town games I correctly read you 2 of 5 times and incorrectly read you 3 of 5 times. That’s hardly the poor situation you are presenting.
In any event, 75% of games where we were both town, you either voted or had me on your scumlist or both; 50% when we had different alignments. I just wanted to make that history known to everyone.-
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BlueBloodedToffee Survivor
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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I know scum can fake confbias cases, but they rarely actually do in my experience and MoI's push doesn't look like that. It's funny you say the MM defense is contrived, because I agree with it quite a bit.In post 382, Something_Smart wrote: I definitely disagree that scum can't make terrible cases that look like confbias. I've been on both ends of forceful cases by scum on town that were weak at best. I think his defense of MM is contrived and could possibly be partner defending (one reason why I want an MoI flip today), and I agree that his thoughts on RC don't seem real.
The fact that he said things that were so close to what I was thinking in his initial push on RC and in his MM defense just makes him very unlikely to be scum from my perspective.
We still have a week, and I kinda wanna pressure a lurker slot to see what we can get out of them.
It just sucks that we have a bunch of players using weak logic and a bunch of lurkers, and most of them are probably town :/-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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lane0168 Jack of All Trades
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VOTE: fa_q2
I like this slightly more than moi. I disagree with almost everything moi says. And I'm not liking how he got so worked up with redcoyote saying he scum reads rc regardless of their alignment. Which from what I've seen, appears to be true...
Also wtf still any the fire assassin meta read? I'm kinda talking myself into an moi vote, but fa_q2 takes it.-
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lane0168 Jack of All Trades
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Why did faq2 accidentally post here... But never... Post here?
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
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Yeah, I'm leaning scum on him, but reading him is hard because of the massive theory arguments that really didn't need to be there. I'll look at him more tomorrow, but I don't know how much more I'll be able to find. I'd rather try to sort him going forward, I've found my reads almost invariably improve as a game goes on (which is no surprise).
Pedit: I think mod deleted it.-
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lane0168 Jack of All Trades
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No I mean, that was yesterday around noon. His last post before the delete post was the day before. Why did he post here, realize how accident, but not stick around to make an actual post?
Theres a lot I don't like in his iso. How cases are all crap. In a "I gotta find something to look scum hunting" kind of way.
His case on Persivul. The thing I find scummy, is that it stems from Persivul's so called role fishing. Only be never mentions that as being part of his case. He mentions pers reaction to the charge of role fishing, but I feel like if he thought it was role fishing that'd be a bigger issue.
I better go check myself on this...-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
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lane0168 Jack of All Trades
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lane0168 Jack of All Trades
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First he repeats my play was scummy. But I've seen no reason for it to be scummy unless I'm partners with the mm.In post 74, FA_Q2 wrote:
Agree.In post 59, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
I find it suspect that you just assumed an immediate All-In would not possibly get called. Especially given you told Pers "I'm not going to win". If anyone calls then odds are overwhelming that one person ends up with $1,000 plus in their bankroll immediately. Which if they are scum is not good for Town.In post 53, lane0168 wrote:@magna. I'm not sure I understand the question. I didn't want to consolidate money into anyone's hands but my own. I didn't expect anyone to call. I want money to get the benefits of getting money. So why am I scummy again?
I could certainly see a pre-game scenario where it was decided to try to consolidate money on one scum via an All-in and scum counterclaim.
This move by lane is pretty scummy. I think that we need to see the hands though to make that call. The statement:
may very well be a lie to get some more players to put their money in. I certainly think it is asinine to all in on a 13 player card game and expect no one to call you. There are to many players at the table to go hard without the hand to back it up. If he has a shit hand then he very well could be trying to shift his money over to another scum.In post 44, lane0168 wrote:Because I didn't think anybody would call. I was wrong
Fold
Bad for two reasons, 1) then why not vote the mm 2) he only ever says it's scummy. Why is Persivul's role fishing dumb or scum, but mine is straight up scummy?
In post 240, FA_Q2 wrote:
Why vote persivul?In post 231, Infinity 324 wrote:You have any other reads? Why vote lane over persivul?
I am not sure if it is just a dumb idea he is pushing or if it is scum.
Again had to be scummy, only explanation.In post 242, FA_Q2 wrote:
Because the only real reasoning behind his bad play is that scum wants to combine money pools. It does make a lot more sense with MM as his partner. When lane flips scum MM is the obvious lynch the next day.In post 188, Something_Smart wrote:FA, why is lane bullshitting to cover his bad play scummy? We're playing two games here, he screwed up in one game in a way that only slightly affected the other. Do you think lane's play makes sense as scum if MM isn't his partner?
Note this quote, a tongue in cheek remark. My only "suspicion" In anyone else other than the mm up to this pointIn post 259, lane0168 wrote:Must be partners
Willing to throw suspicion anywhere that might not be me... I said one off handed remark that can hardly be taken seriously. And I definitely had a lot of interest in proving the mm to be scum. This is all just so terrible. Character attacks are scummy? And saying people don't know poker is a character attack? You're just trying to paint a scum picture with chop sticks.In post 281, FA_Q2 wrote:
Because you are scummy for more than your bad play. Not only did you push a bad play but you followed that by defending yourself with character attacks (saying that others obviously do not know how to play poker) and have been almost exclusively defending without any real interest in finding scum. You also seem to be willing to throw suspicion anywhere that might not be you. That is not very townie.In post 244, lane0168 wrote:If I was scum and had day talk... And I planned a scum money dump, how do you think that would actually go? What would be the actual plan?
First of all I wouldn't do the plan if we didn't have better than a pair. And I would've been aware of jokers so a pair doesn't mean much. You can figure this out by saying I have a bad, meh, good, very good, probably unbeatable hand.
2 options to start. Either the one with the good hand goes all in, and the shit hand calls. Or the bad hand goes all in and the good hand calls.
To me, it makes sense for the good hand to go all in first. Then if town calls and there's a chance they have a better hand, the bad hand can save its money. That obviously didn't happen.
So now if the bad hand goes all in, and even if a town calls, the good hand would still go all in, because it would've been decided its a very good hand that probably wouldn't get beat.
Considering there was only one call, the only option here is me and mm.
That's no way we would do that plan unless we were very confident we wouldn't be throwing money away. Cause that'd be dumber than town going all in on a bluff.
So faq2, why aren't you voting the mm?
He says several times that it makes sense me and the mm are partners, but compared to what I was saying about the mm, I see no reason why he'd insist on voting me.
And "lane can wait till tomorrow" makes me cringe-
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lane0168 Jack of All Trades
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What I don't like about the Persivul case, is he says the role fishing is blatant, and also not a tell. Yet here he talks about Persivul trying to cover his role fishing. It was obvious. True, but what's to cover? I feel like he's just trying to pad the case with whatever he can.In post 290, FA_Q2 wrote:
It is not necessity a scum tell in this case (as there are already some knowns about the abilities themselves). I do not like the response though.In post 285, Infinity 324 wrote:s_s, a lot of things in that post seem to suggest I'm scum, why do you think I'm town?
About mm, I think he's been less careful (the inconsistencies people mention are an example of this) than noob scum would be, especially because he seems more of a careful person to me. I feel like he started off posting carefully, but once he got put under pressure he panicked and tried to over-explain, whereas as scum he would have good explanations prepared for his actions. He also seems quite willing to engage.
PEdit: I don't agree with that at all faq2, and honestly that reasoning seems pretty fabricated. Lane has definitely been trying to scumhunt, the "character attacks" are NAI, and I think most of his changes in reads so far have had a good reason for them.
PEdit 2: Oh I didn't realize that part of your quote about persivul was about the rolefishing. Were you unsure about it from the beginning?
Why do you think persivul is scum for using something you don't think is a scumtell?
He does not engage directly with the charge - rather he tries to attack me with a BS meta charge. The timing there is extremely suspect (didn't have any problem with my activity before then), he does not actually go into my meta at all, uses activity as a meta tell which is asinine to start with and ultimately sidesteps the original issue to begin with using that charge. He also tried to cover his fishing with the statement that his choices were obvious not even giving credence to the fact that outing the decisions made tells scum exactly what powers he has and how much money he has remaining. For instance, should he say he was going to purchase the first ability then he does not present any real threat to scum but if he saves that cash for the last one there is a chance that they may want to take him out to prevent that purchase. IOW, rather than get into why his query was toxic to town he attacks immediately and brushes off the fact that town gains no useful information with the question but scum gains tons. If he were town then he would have been genuinely concerned with why I thought such information would be a bad idea to share. There was zero of that.
The more I think about it the more I want a Persivul lynch before a Lane lynch.
VOTE: Persivul
Lane can wait till tomorrow.
Literally no one cared about the role fishing because what was said was true, scum know who the most powerful person is, there's nothing to hide. And yet hes after Persivul about it. When nobody in the game cares? I don't see anything wrong with Persivul's reaction.-
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lane0168 Jack of All Trades
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lane0168 Jack of All Trades
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