Open 651: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[Sir Bastion]

VOTE: Vedith

cause I'm going for the harem ending and I cant have any rivals


*waves*

[Sir Bastion]

Don't know anyone here (coming back after some time), but gonna VOTE: Lycanfire because that's a scummy sounding name

you're not alone in that regard. Its been a year since my last game (roughly)

Also I may not know anyone here too, though it may be that I do and just havnt put 2 and 2 together yet.

[Sir Bastion]

Ok lets see...

@Shadowez just because you are now the only reliable honest person in this town does not mean you should start acting the village idiot. Shape up man. You are the only person here who can push people without any consequences. Less self voting and more *slap slap look me in the eye son and tell me how much you love this town*

@NJAC, the vote on shadowez reads automatic reaction to me, like someone who's played SE/IC in one too many newbie games and has had to deal with someone doing that once too often thinking their funny or clever.

I'm actually more uncomfortable with the pre-reroll choices talk, but I wasnt there for any of that so its probably simply the unknown that has me unsettled. As Vedith points out it is useless info with the potential "depending how the game goes" of polluting how people might think later in the game of certain players or scenarios.

I'm fine with Vedith postings and superbowl9 (though I agree that daytalk is a strong power so side with superbowl9 on that)

The only posts I didnt like were Kyndy101's posts here

Why did you feel the need to answer for NJAC?

so UNVOTE: Vedith
VOTE: Kyndy101

I also dislike the follow up excuse to drop an RVS vote

obviously rerolls are random, they are not likely or more likely to contain anything different to the previous roll

but more importantly why did you feel the need to justify dropping an RVS vote at all?

[Sir Bastion]

Oh and before I forget I obviously see we have a lot of people of different timezones (including some other UK based posters like myself)

Could we get a timezone and general posting time confirmation from everyone

the deadline is 6am (roughly) for me so I dont want people hoping for me to come in and deliver a hammer at the 11th hour cause I can guarantee you at 6am I'll be alseep (at least until 1st of september, and then I'll be too cranky on the tube to save the day). And I'd bet it wont be just me. It would be best if everybody gives their general posting periods (doesn't need to be accurate, just so we know there is a point where you cannot be relied on to show up).

I'm UK based but for the time being my posting time will more likely be around now or in the early afternoon (so 12 hours ago) so just use the timestamp of this post to get an idea what that is in your own timezone.

[Sir Bastion]

@Sir Bastion - I'm UK time as well usually, but European time (+2) for the next week

The only posts I didnt like were Kyndy101's posts here

I don't see the problem here?

I'm actually scum reading Vedith as well

Answering for another players is not a pro town action in my opinion and experience. It goes against scumhunting and its a form of info instead of pushing.

At its most harmless it denies us to see a genuine response from the original player, essentially spoiling another player's case (even in its most minor of examples) and letting a player brush of potential issues by just chirping back the same response.

At its worse it is very much an action that makes the most sense with scum motivation, only scum know who is genuinely town and who's not and are more able and willing to step into the defence of one town player from another town player building a trust that they can potentially exploit.

Town players should never answer for another town player. If you think its town vs town then:





@Vedith do you get spooked easily?

[Sir Bastion]

you dont get spooked by your buddies right?

[Sir Bastion]

No wait I have that the wrong way round dont I?

[Sir Bastion]

Beep

boop

[Sir Bastion]

has she always been town when you played against her?

[Sir Bastion]

What is it you like about Vedith's posting?

confidence

[Sir Bastion]

@bastion why do you think vedith's confidence is a good thing?

confidence = content = cases* = catching scum = winning

*not necessarily from the confident player

[Sir Bastion]

So "X is scum" has more content than "I think X might be scum"?

i'm not sure I follow your question

[Sir Bastion]

confidence = content

So "X is scum" has more content than "I think X might be scum"?

OOOOOOh *penny drops*

sorry misunderstood, I thought you were asking me something very different there

= may have been the wrong shorthand

Confident players tend to post more, more posts mean more content, more content means more material for me to work with. More material means I have a better chance to work out their alignment and use it to hunt scum.

It's less to do with their vocabulary and more to do with their willingness to engage, discuss and challenge. Its a neutral trait, but early day 1 its beneficial to town, nothing worse then a day 1 that drags from the onset.

[Sir Bastion]

Bastion if you like confidence you should vote light_ganski with me.

there's nothing confident about your posts.

[Sir Bastion]

@bastion has your kyndy vote/read changed from her recent interactions?

at the time you asked I was kind of on the edge of my seat wondering how she'd respond to Vedith brushing her off in this post

but there hasnt been any reaction at all which is not necessarily scummy, but she does a reads post reiterating Vedith as her scum read and doesnt add to it just pointing back to what was honestly a very underwhelming case.

Which rubs me as someone who's happy to sit on vedith (especially since his wagon was blowing up and had grown since her case) without actually pushing, it's not like between her original case and her reads post he was quiet.

So i'm still leaning scum. But Vedith has been openly vouching for her and has put himself forward very clearly with the claim (further thoughts on that later) though the fact that he's only played town Kyndy makes the vouch unreliable, he can very well be just mistaken and is dooping himself into thinking she's town because of experience, when really he has none.

So yeah I'm still leaning scum. but she's not alone anymore.


SoraAdvent really rubs me wrong, his posts are hard to read i find and I get the impression they are more like summery over actual posting and I say impression because they are genuinely difficult to follow, his post in relation to Kyndy and Vedith requires having 3 pages open so you can cross reference what he is talking about to the original post.

I think he's mostly posting his train of thought directly hence it reads like someone chattering over a cup of coffee everytime I start reading it

Add he's given two reads list within 2 pages of each other. Which again is summery over actual posting.


Which is why I'm uncomfortable, chain of thought posts like this I associate more with scum, its a lot of info crying out that they are scumhunting, Look I did not 1 but 2 Reads lists. Aint I contributing!

But really he's sitting on the Kyandy wagon and his forward movement of what resembles his case was (oddly like Kyandy) to repeat he's already presented a case and to sit pretty:

kyndy - I've already expressed my thoughts on her overreactive behaviour which you can find here. As mentioned in this post, however, I like the post she made with regards to Vedith, at least in its intent - if I'm not mistaken, someone said scum wouldn't tunnel on someone this early, and to be honest I kind of agree with that statement, though not fully. In addition, although I do think her reads are playing it super safe right now (not deviating too much from myself/superbowl's reads which are posted on the same page), I like the effort shown towards straight-up contributing to the town. I still have my reservations, so I'm gonna say null leaning scum with some confidence (as oxymoronic as that is)

His only new addition to the case is also the same point he dismisses in the same sentence.

On top of it I dont like that he's been very pushy on getting reads

which are honestly imo overrated, beyond who I think is scum you dont need to know who I think is town. If you are town it doesnt help you to know who I feel is town or not. I'll say directly to you what I think of you, and if you think I'm wrong tell me. How does it help a town player to know that we both agree that someone else is town?

It looks very towny asking for reads, but its busy body work. Like reminding everyone to wait for a claim before hammering. It looks town but doesnt mean a thing

and being pushy on it as Sora has been a few times

here

and here

is just forcing a point.

How does knowing what their reads going to affect your case on them?

So thats two players sitting pretty and one of them on the same wagon as me...

So UNVOTE: unvote

VOTE: SoraAdvent


Anyone else to set me off?

Vedith, if you're not fake claiming and you scum read me I request that you investigate me tonight.

Godamn it Light!!!

[Sir Bastion]

I'll be VLA for the weekend as I'm visiting relatives up in Scotland, earliest I can post consistently is Sunday night. Though I'll probably be exhausted and not post til monday.

[Sir Bastion]

grumble

I'm not happy

I thought I had something but its really nothing

unvote

@Sora: your case on Njac and your previous case on Vedith seem similar (primarily built on lack of reasoning from either player) it honestly almost feels like you are just twisting a case that was killed off by a pr claim to fit the nearest target. So can I have your opinion on (shakes magic 8 ball) heebee please


@Vedith: Do you think scum would be so opportunist this early?


@Kyndy: Why do you keep trying to be the peaceful pacifist?

@ Kyndy again: No more puns...ever.

@light_ganski: humour me, what is the advantage of such a gambit?

[Sir Bastion]

Highhopes catchup is so-so, there's no problems apparent but it does happen to 100% support the status quo. Shaddowez scumread is pretty wifom after already being mentioned and the rest is too basic to read into much. Need something more in depth.

will you be doing a catch up of your own or are you happy where you are chasing light?

[Sir Bastion]

FTR I don't mind lynching HH if we get to it.

who is this for?

[Sir Bastion]

Highhopes catchup is so-so, there's no problems apparent but it does happen to 100% support the status quo. Shaddowez scumread is pretty wifom after already being mentioned and the rest is too basic to read into much. Need something more in depth.

will you be doing a catch up of your own or are you happy where you are chasing light?

How do you feel about the light wagon?

Light's wagon is surprisingly light, he's made some really stupid posts with one particular standing out (which I already highlighted) but I am going to have to be unpopular and say he's town and I will oppose any move to lynch him today.

WRT catchup; I've made a case and went into my scumreads. I guess you're casting shade on me for not doing an "official" catchup beyond that but like ehh?

Never said anything about casting shade on you not doing a catchup, actually I like the gusto of standing your ground on your case. Even if its case you seem to be second guessing in your own posts.

[Sir Bastion]

FTR I don't mind lynching HH if we get to it.

who is this for?

Nobody in particular, just pointing this out in light of 370 and 371.

if you didnt like 370 and 371 you could call him out on it.

I mean what is your actual case on Sora?

[Sir Bastion]

Actually SB who are you scumreading now? Given the sora unvote.

that's an excellent question. I discovered I had actually made a major error yesterday so my read of the game was off. So I am actually back prodding and pocking and rereading. Hopefully though even an error may turn around to prove to be an effective tool. But I need new content first.

problem is if I spend another day sitting back and reading this game will go nowhere so I am mostly poking at those who are currently active and leaving questions for those who are not.

Which reminds me

@Highhopes: Do you feel like you've caught up?




On a side note @Light sorry for getting your gender mixed up earlier, I got you mixed up with Sora in terms of gender identification below your avatar and defaulted to male

[Sir Bastion]

That was addressed to superbowl ^

you did that knowing I wrote a lengthy response didnt you.


goddamnit.

[Sir Bastion]

@SB

sir bastion

Sir Bastion


I was answering your question about no lynches then got the follow up post.

[Sir Bastion]

@Mod you know I unvoted in 366 right?

in case that didnt register

UNVOTE:


@light: you townread Sora, what is it that you like in her posts? And humour me by pointing to a specific one.

@Lycanfire: anything aside from throwing shit at light? it seems to me that this is a point where its about convincing other people to abandon their current wagon. Why would Light be a better wagon right now then Sora (because if I suggested Njac, I know the answer will be because Light is on that wagon) because assuming this stands then I hope it's something interesting.

@Vedith you're not voting light, you're on Sora, so is there something in particular that has you sticking with Sora or something in particular keeping you away from light's wagon?

@Raskolnikov: I rather not until it's needed.

[Sir Bastion]

@Vedith you're not voting light, you're on Sora, so is there something in particular that has you sticking with Sora or something in particular keeping you away from light's wagon?

Sora's scum.
Hopefully I've been more than helpful here!

i think you have

[Sir Bastion]

Light's wagon is surprisingly light, he's made some really stupid posts with one particular standing out (which I already highlighted) but I am going to have to be unpopular and say he's town and I will oppose any move to lynch him today.

I don't remember if you already did, but could you please elaborate on why do you think she's town?

see

@Raskolnikov: I rather not until it's needed.

[Sir Bastion]

Then sheep me because it's needed!

???


Sheep you trying to lynch the person I said I dont want to lynch...

you know I was starting to like you

[Sir Bastion]

In that case:

@Vedith, @Rask, @AnyoneNotVotingLight:

Let's move that wagon so we can hear Bastion's reasons for townreading her!

thats a tad shit reasoning.

[Sir Bastion]

I know. I'm just adding it to try to gain supporters. I just want to move light's wagon and see what happens.

*spit*

if you cant see why that was stupid I may need to revisit my read of you.

[Sir Bastion]

@light: you townread Sora, what is it that you like in her posts? And humour me by pointing to a specific one.

Of course. 220 - him calling out vedith on being anti-town, and actually trying to encourage him to contribute more constructively than the crap he'd put in before that post, rather than just scum reading him and leaving it at that. If Sora was scum, I simply can't see what her incentive would be in trying to stop vedith playing anti-town (as he has been doing all bloody day).

hmm I'm surprised you picked 220. I personally disliked that post overall and the vedith section is all about giving reads, to me thats an easy push for scum to play, set up a town act *hey everybody lets have some reads* push the players that dont play along *Hey XYZ why are you not giving reads! We cant continue until XYZ gives his reads!* and then turn it into a case *XYZ is scummy, they are not contributing to town and playing anti town*

Its specifically a response to Vedith refusing to give a reads list (thats what 209 was) its an overlong paragraph that honestly doesnt make sense both in terms as a response to 209 and also because it reads almost like a list of negative terms. Anti-town, straw-manning, distracting, non-commital, useless with no actual through way. And gives an almost incomprehensible reason why that could be a scum play (no seriously explain to me what "but it makes sense to think you're scum who's deliberately trying to get you/your partners off the heat." actually means?)

followed by another demand for reads.

I mean actually read it:

You're acting in a severely anti-town way. First, you continually refute the current arguments on kyndy and the like, which is fine in and of itself. However, you don't even bother to attack anyone else (your vote is still on kyndy from RVS, for goodness' sake), and you end up just distracting the town while making sure nothing's being done to further the game forward. You use straw man arguments to portray opposing people's arguments as stupid, you respond in posts that appear to contribute and be confident but are hilariously non-commital, and again don't bother pushing the game in any particular direction. I really want to hope that you're just town acting in a manner that's incredibly distracting and, if I may be a little bit blunt, kind of useless, but it makes sense to think you're scum who's deliberately trying to get you/your partners off the heat.

Your multiple posts may suggest you're active, but you're in reality saying nothing at all. You say things and don't back them up with anything other than a hand wave of things like 'The case on the random unvote is weak, and too weak for a vote on her imo. Her "defending herself" I disagree with.', which doesn't explain WHY you disagree at all.

In short, please actually contribute to the town by providing your reads instead of constantly refuting arguments and in general distracting the town.

the bit in italics is the only genuine bit of case there, the rest is hot garbage.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------MAFIA GAME THEORY TALK------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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So i'm going to assume I need to actually show some people why giving out too many reads list are a bad idea and refusing to give them is not scummy


Here is an iso from the mafia thread of a scum hydra player from a game I played (poor term to describe me getting destroyed) just under a year ago named Beardedcat

He was scum in a game with daychat and he wrote over a 140 posts in the pt tracking every players reads.

post 154 sums it up best

Giving out too many reads list throughout a game can lead to this, telling everybody who you think is town and who you think is scum allows scum to get a map of the town

ESPECIALLY if a game can potentially have daychat

and that sort of play destroys town, I mean they absolutely bollocked us from here to the moon. We lost control of the vote by day 2 because scum knew which buttons to press to set player A off on player B


and we can potentially have daychat here.


Thats an extreme example, but you'll find similar processess on a smaller scale.

[Sir Bastion]

Oh. Well, the wagon on Sora makes sense now. I didn't think of that D: I forgot the scum could have daytalk; wow. And Sora has been pushing reads lists out of everyone..

But @Sir Bastion, why do you think Sora continued fabricating reads posts as well, even when not asking others for reads?

because it's easy whitenoise for scum to play because its practically whitenoise for all players

Its practically why I (wrongly) accused Sora of sitting on your wagon in 262, cause giving out a reads list lets you sit, lets you watch and lets you be town without actually doing anything.

I doubt there isnt a player here who as town hasn't at some point dropped a reads list to avoid a mod prod.

I'm also going to guess quite a few of you when you saw a post with a reads list at the bottom that you went straight to the list first and in a few cases only actually read the post when you're name showed up on the wrong side of the tracks.


Though I will say in this game that role seems to have been swapped with promise posts...perhaps the meta of mafia has changed again.

[Sir Bastion]

I know. I'm just adding it to try to gain supporters. I just want to move light's wagon and see what happens.

*spit*

if you cant see why that was stupid I may need to revisit my read of you.

Why are you offering two warnings of changing your read on NJAC? Just do it if you're going to XD

because I have the patience of a saint and reward effort

[Sir Bastion]

Also sir bastion why the fuck not explain your super secret strong-townread on someone coming to l-2. Waiting for l-1 to get a claim out of them first? Either that or you're dumb I guess; if you have really good reason you should out it now. Technically people can wait until intent but very often nowadays people don't.

again I have the patience of a saint and reward players who make an effort

[Sir Bastion]

To be honest NJAC encouraging another vote to get bastion townread out could TECHNICALLY be really clever scum wanting a claim in the same way but that's (wanting SB to explain) at least a really good reasoning for his action and overall NJAC's probably town. Not ridiculous like what mr bastion's doing here.

patience, saint, effort

[Sir Bastion]

I know. I'm just adding it to try to gain supporters. I just want to move light's wagon and see what happens.

This is what happens. I'm tracker. Cue more "opportunist" bullshit from Vedith. Didn't wanna have both investigatives outed today but heh. Claiming now so I don't come online and find myself quickhammered like in my last game.

and that ladies and gentlemen is why I was refusing to vote Light


he pr slipped waaaaay back here and before someone says he might have been scum gambiting...yes possible but highly unlikely when we had 2 town pr roles claim already, hints to me that scum probably cashed in and took everything they could. Also it's a pr slip because there is no reason to make such a challenge unless your role was something more then a VT. But I was hoping people would go back and ISO Light (rewarding effort). I actually missed that post first time through and only spotted when I iso'd him and vedith.

I'm not blameless on this, perhaps it would have been better if I said I think he town slipped and left it at that, I wanted to avoid saying he was a possible pr, but maybe it would have been better if I did and we could have avoided outing such a crucial role and still hope that they assumed he was the bodyguard of vigilante instead.


I am pissed at vedith though cause I thought he picked it up too, hence why he was staying on Sora and me prodding him earlier if he was avoiding joining light's wagon or convinced about Sora here and I thought he was trying to be subtle here


*sigh*

[Sir Bastion]

ok then I'll remember Rule number 1


So aside from not being NJAC whats appealling about the Hebee wagon?

[Sir Bastion]

goddamnit I got the genders mixed up again *facepalm* Its because of the avatar, I keep thinking death note and arrghhh

[Sir Bastion]

sorry I am going to derail this momentarily to satisfy my nerd like habits

Is this still about 42

The answer is 42 but what is the question?

[Sir Bastion]

goddamnit I got the genders mixed up again *facepalm* Its because of the avatar, I keep thinking death note and arrghhh

Originally I was going to make my avatar light from death note as well.
Imagine how confusing this game would've been

I was reminded when I linked my previous game of a deeply flawed habit I have when I play in that I tend to trust players with avatars I like much more then they deserve.

thankfully i'm not much of a bleach fan so you'll get my honest opinion.

Vedith running with a mysterion avatar is also ok, if he had a Min-Berry Crunch...then we would have problems.

Though it does mean I read most of his posts in a bad christian bale batman voice.

[Sir Bastion]

Vedith running with a mysterion avatar is also ok, if he had a Min-Berry Crunch...then we would have problems.

I'm 15 now mom! Don't tell me how to live my life!

touche

[Sir Bastion]

I mean, if he saw the crumb

and then said

he had valid reasons

to townread her

, then scum would be looking for crumbs anyway, so why not to be clear?

You need to explain this misrep asap...


emphasize on

need

seriously

everything I ever said about my read




Explain fucking quickly and fucking clearly

[Sir Bastion]

What? What do you exactly want me to explain?

explain why you felt the need to add fiction

Fine, you didn't explicitly said you had valid reasons to townread her, as I said but that's how I read it.

Why?

Was it because I interupted the wagon shouting from the hilltops that this player is town! and She must not be lynched?

No?

Did I attack every poster's case on her as flawed and backed her 100%

No?

Did I give a 2 line answer to a question put to me by another poster?

Yes!

How did that imply anything? How is that any more of an implication then Vedith's townblock? Or when High hopes did a catch up and just states that me and vedith are town without reason or when any of you or anyone else does a pointless reads post and put people in the town section without comment.

Why did my answering of a question imply earth shattering super secret changes to this game and none of them did?

I mean, you implied it by calling her town and saying that will oppose to lynch her.

yes cause no one else in this game has called someone else town. It's kind of funny that me saying I oppose her lynch strangely carries more weight then the players in this game who have actively stepped in against other players.

So, you had this strong super secret townread on her, which I interpreted as you having valid reasons to townread her.

Or you could be thinking of the wrong poster, but its ok you're going to instead sheep the person that said the things you are accusing me of saying, nothing suspicious there.

I don't understad your reaction.

Because it's scummy as hell its both misrepping and looks like your excusing your own actions by blaming me.

Bastion waited until light's full claim to explain. It was better for us to out light as a PR, and not for her to specify to scum that she's a tracker.

cause thats sure as hell what this looks like.

VOTE: NJAC

[Sir Bastion]

@Mod: I think you got the number of living players left alive wrong

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Awk, thanks. Fixed.

[Sir Bastion]

Shaddowez (edit: and others now) I recommend reading this section of the setup and focus on the bit I am highlighting:

Goon Cop
Welcome, [Player Name]. You are now a Goon Cop.
Abilities:
Each night you may target a player. You will receive a result of "Goon", "Not a Goon" or

"No Result"

.

Highhopes is insinuating he roleblocked Vedith (why pick Vedith?) and vedith claiming that Kyndy is Not a Goon means he's lying about being a goon cop. He should have gotten *No result* and knew he'd been roleblocked.

Which is pretty damning if true.

it's also I assume why he asks clearly:

This is you,

claiming you have a Not-a-goon result

on kyndy, correct?

But it could be a scum play as they would be in the best position to know how many prs and knew his claim was safe.

A lot of ifs, but most of them in scum hands.

either way one of them is lying and needs a lynching

Unless I'm meant to apply first rule of Vedith and assume he was so useless he misread his night report?

And highhopes full claim please or retract the challenge, I dont want someone to counter claim based on my reading of those posts unless you are 100% confirming the scenario we are in.

edit: Welcome Ironstove!

[Sir Bastion]

QH is bad though not even necessarily AI for KTS (it's pretty terrible if you can say that about someone...).

Can I get an abbreviation translation please

@bastion's post if this is truly the situation we should lynch vedith first.

QH = Quickhammer I assume

Not sure on the other two.

Why should we lynch Vedith first?

vedith's claim was the riskier of the two

we can confirm with one of them is telling the truth that there is at least 3 prs in this game (tracker, innocent child, goon cop/roleblocker) which means vedith on day 1 claimed goon cop before any other claim (aside from innocnet child) with the risk of it being potentially in the game. If there are more then 3 prs then the risk vedith took just goes up and up. At best he had potentially 2 players in the game that might have been able to CC him. At worse he could have had 4.


Highhopes claim came at a point where the 3 roles had been claimed by end of day 1 and a night period had passed where a chance for scum to find a 4th if they took a role cop. Which means regardless of there being 3 prs or 4 there is no risk to HH's claim being countered. There is only a risk if there are 5 prs with only 1 player potentially available to counter claim him.

[Sir Bastion]

Even with scum choosing no roles, town still has two PRs so any PR claim by scum is a gambit, especially before any claims whatsoever.

uhmm I was referring to Highhopes doing a scum play in that section not Vedith, please see my response to supersoup for details.

The bolded line comes across as coaching - if you believe HighHopes, why would you put a line in there that could suggest a backpedal for Vedith?

I dont believe either of them until one flips.

sad fact of life.

And I didnt really see that as coaching for a possible backpedalling option, I'm pretty sure the twelve 5 year old story pretty much put a nail in that notion, Vedith has clearly double downed on his report.

[Sir Bastion]

superbowl

not supersoup

why do I think of soup whenever I say your name?

[Sir Bastion]

if it wasnt for the fact that almost everyone else who posted didnt think twice about the posts and were gunning to lynch HH out the gate I would be calling bullshit

but you did that follow up post with the little story of the five year olds

cause honestly that really does read like you confirming it says *not a goon*

thats my concern right now

and yes, Kyndy is not a goon.
I was worried that I over complexed my post, so I sat 12 5 year olds down and asked them to explain what I meant in that post.
2 other them started talking about fire engines, but the other 10 said to me "This means Kyndy isn't a Goon."

You can see what I'm getting at here.

[Sir Bastion]

you are such a squeeling fangirl right now.

the avatar is almost perfect...

[Sir Bastion]

Vedith with all the ups and downs where does your read of kyndy sit now?


Cause to me it feels like you admit there was a doubt there during the night but then your scumhunting today (even after being revealed you learnt nothing) has a distinct kyndy shaped hole.

Especially when you are say:

Hebee was scum though for sure, and the NJAC wagon was so poorly pushed to avoid Hebee lynched.

That puts Kyndy on the list but you've somehow done some amazing process of elimination and removed her from the suspect pool.

VOTE: Vedith

[Sir Bastion]

That's not how it is. Shut up.

and this just makes it better

I'm slightly annoyed I cant find a picture of Holo all tsundere and embarrassed

[Sir Bastion]

No wait I DID!

Spoiler:

[Sir Bastion]

Vedith with all the ups and downs where does your read of kyndy sit now?

Town

and is that still built primarily on your prior experiences or is there something specific in this game that pushes that read?

[Sir Bastion]

Can you point to something in the game, something you liked.

[Sir Bastion]

Can you point to something in the game, something you liked.

Why would I point out to you?
I think you are the 3rd scum

I'll try and talk about something else, but it really is the weirdness around kyndy that is the nub here.

When did I become the 3rd scum?


Because you mentioned me in the justification for checking kyndy ("After

Sir Bastian

mentioned that I could have been thinking wrong with Kyndy, I wanted to at least clear Kyndy from Goon.") But you wont talk to me now because I am the third scum!

so that means between you considering my observation during the night and the last page I must have shifted but all your arguments as to why I'm scum go back to day 1.

So you either heeded my words despite being scum, but are being tight lip now

or name dropping me in your report was just a formality?

[Sir Bastion]

its probably* mylo, can we at least confirm Hebee is still with us before potentially offering them to the scum team?


*I dont know if the situation is different if there is still a traitor?

[Sir Bastion]

So, we know town has at least 3 PRs, so scum took at least 1 of their roles. We can be fairly certain they didn't take the JOAT, because unless they blew their strongman use on N1, they wouldn't have bothered killing HH and left that to WIFOM.

I say we popcorn mass claim today. Thoughts?

4 prs. (Innocent child, tracker, goon cop, roleblocker) so they took at least 2 upgrades.

I guess I'm ok with a popcorn mass claim

I assume you want to have Hebee start. I'm ok with that.

[Sir Bastion]

it says in the first post for today that both hebee and lycan have been prodded

[Sir Bastion]

Not confirmed all prs are gone beside IC there could be a bodyguard or a vigilante still

though its very unlikely based on the last 2 nights.


@ironstove Are you still against popcorn massclaim ironstove after confirming the loss of the tracker?

I have an issue with your list suggestion, the numbers dont favour such an idea.

further quesiton. This is your 2nd game in mafia scum correct? Whats your experience prior?

Just you were calling to unvote post hammer which is impossible here

[Sir Bastion]

I think the softclaim makes it odd.

either claim still draws the scum target onto you tonight, the only difference a soft claim does is it makes it harder for us to read your actions in relation to your role honestly and more accurately judge your actions

you explained your lack of actions night 2

but what about night 1?

[Sir Bastion]

Actually, I'd like to get other player's opinions on verdeth as a player. Are his reads something that can be trusted? I find his judgment very questionable for self-lynching on D2 then dropping a list of reads clearing some players with no proof besides 'bad town player' or 'just lycan being lycan'

I think you meant vedith being vedith?

Nope never played with him before.

Self voting is normally seen as anti town, not only because its counter to our win con but also denying the remaining town info. Best thing for a town player on L-1 who knows they cant stop the wagon is to force every player in the game to commit an opinion on the situation at a minimum. The self vote was poor but the burst of opinion and reads was a good idea (even if I disagreed with some of them).

personally i favour case building. If you think there is something to work with to push a player on that you like I say go for it

though in some cases thats a bit thin (technicality on soupbowl)

At least we can ask Raskolnikov why Vedith thought you were acting lazy this game? are you normally someone to bury us in walls of text or is Vedith exagerating?

Well, if he's going to claim bodyguard, then I think voting to no lynch is the play.

I'd have serious issues with that claim personally. Honestly I wont believe a bodyguard claim based on the night 1 results.

Wait, is JOAT strongman just a modifier or does it allow mafia 2 kills in one night?

modifier I think? Going from its previous use in this game its rather unique to this set up i think, JOAT is normally a different sort of role.

and this game keeps going while I go off running to check things *sigh*


Can we all at least agree to not let today end without a post from Hebee inc.

[Sir Bastion]

i just realised i read that sentence wrong...

[Sir Bastion]

i just realised i read that sentence wrong...

[Sir Bastion]

*doh*

I forgot Hebee's a hydra.

I was about to accuse them of site flaking (in the middle of night 1 too:

for posterity the current last login time is: 21 Aug 2016, 16:09

) but actually no both heads are posting away in their own worlds and active

@mod: I know you've been poked and bugged on this a bit but have you prodded the individual heads, perhaps they've forgotten their hydra greatness

didnt one of the other hydras forget the keys to the hydra suit? Perhaps these two have done something similar.

All communication to hydras has always been sent to individual heads along with the hydra account.

[Sir Bastion]

All communication to hydras has always been sent to individual heads along with the hydra account.

ok thats great thanks, sorry for poking you again on the issue

[Sir Bastion]

Huh I had a sort of opposite view on this to you shaddowez.

But I'd like to add to your 2nd point, he did seem to dodge my question in 662 about his night 1 actions when he responded in 663

he skipped responding to my enquiry about night 1.

I wrote it off as part of his town motives so I assume it will be answered at some point

[Sir Bastion]

Also I think this post puts me at the top of the next page and I want that at least once so whooooooooo!

[Sir Bastion]

It was already mentioned, but we have no idea if we have another PR, but mafia would know this information so it's very easy to fake a claim.

We lost 3 PRs already (tracker, role cop, role blocker), so what are the chances we have a 4th? I'm not sure.

So it all boils down to whether or not to believe in lycan's claim regardless of what he claims because we have no way to verify this information, but with that said, if we do decide to believe in his claim and he is mafia, this pretty much assures we lose the game.

I want other people's thoughts on this.

he's pretty much spelt out the shameful story in his most recent post (I think we are at the point that everyone should be able put it together easily from just that post alone), I believe he's town because scum would have opted for sympathy by crying how they made incredibly stupid mistakes or they would have worked out some way to fake it so it wasn't a mistake. Whats oozing from lycan right now is pure unfiltered embarrassment, he's softclaiming because if he outright told the truth he'd be at risk of being quicklynched due to his incredibly poor judgement and misuse of his powers.

Actually, just give me your scum reads.

You or kyndy, which is depressing because these are the same scum reads I had for the most of day 1 (sora instead of you, but same slot) which really shows how little progress has been made.

Both Rask and Soupbowl have had posts *today* that feel like genuine town thinking to me, they've both said things that scum wouldnt want on towns mind today. Which is a problem because Genji is a big unknown and there is at least 1 scum among them. if I had to be pushed I guess soupbowl but that's only a fraction based on one quote being cut which looked misleading but honestly might have been trying to save space.

Reality is I'd need to see how Genji comes into this game to weigh up those 3.

But in the meantime I'd love to talk more about people who do rustle my jimmies

like you

Before people freak out that I'm trying to lynch superbowl who I marked earlier as my strongest town read, the indication by verdeth and genji to re-examine super made me do another re-read of this thread, and after ISOing him, kyndy, bastion, and rask, I decided to change my mind about superbowl.

what about a case?

you re-read him but didnt think to jot down what it is in the re-read that set you off or looked scummy?

Did you read him in iso on his own or in combination with other players?

[Sir Bastion]

because they've not been reading the game (see JOAT topic that takes up most of their first paragraph)

[Sir Bastion]

I get the feeling there is a lot of people holding their breaths at the moment.

@Everyone except Superbowl, Genji, Raskolnikov and shadowez

post in game, I want to confirm you've all been to this thread, hell Kyndy I'll take another useless promise post from you right now. I just want to confirm everyone is somewhere around within (expired on 2016-08-30 18:02:06) of now.


And if we all are and the game is still going

well we will have ourselves something to actually work with in terms of pulling this game back from the brink of disaster.

[Sir Bastion]

I had a nightmare last night about this game. That most of the players replaced out and got replaced with absolute idiots.

Then I logged in to find that vote from kyndy

so maybe it wasnt a dream?

Something is up here.

If we have 2 wagons within scum hammer range then in theory if either one was entirely town on town then this game would be over (hence the countdown Kyndy)

The fact it isnt says there is no town on town meaning there is scum in both wagons.

and the scary part which has me confused

the 3 players not in either wagon

one is me = town

one is Shaddowez = confirmed town

and Lycanfire = Who I believe is town as I covered in the first paragraph here

Which would mean all scum is in these 2 wagons. (your opinion on lycanfire and me may differ but I am working only with what I know)


So thought experiment for those 5 players

Genji, Superbowl, Ironstove, Kyndy, Raskolnikov.

Pick the person you most feel is town out of the other 4 players

and look at the remaining 3

Do those 3 players work as a scumteam in your opinion?

[Sir Bastion]

Wait a second. Genji didn't even vote yet. Why didn't you group genji into your analysis?

Scum pair is super/bastion. Still need to find 3rd scum...

He's still part of the 5 players currently in the active vote

Again

the logic is

IF it was town on town voting

this game would be over

so the scenarios for each wagon can be

2 scum voting 1 town

1 scum, 1 town voting 1 town

and importantly

2 town voting 1 scum

Which means there are 5 players that are currently involved in 2 wagons that have scum on them, even if 1 of them is not voting at all.

Bastion attempting to clear himself as not mafia by grouping himself with arguably the last 2 remaining PRs.

Just applying what I know and my opinion

If the situation was reversed and you were in my position would you pretend that there is a chance you were scum?

Or just aknowledge that some people may think different but you to hunt scum you need to work with what you know as fact

I even said that in the post

(your opinion on lycanfire and me may differ but I am working only with what I know)

The goal of the post was for you to respond to the question that you are conveniently dodging.

[Sir Bastion]

So thought experiment for those 5 players

Genji, Superbowl, Ironstove, Kyndy, Raskolnikov.

Pick the person you most feel is town out of the other 4 players

and look at the remaining 3

Do those 3 players work as a scumteam in your opinion?

Yep

you tease

genji's still obvscum: no real reads this far into day 3. picks at ironstove whereas meta flip flops on superbowl.

he remarkably brings up kyndy a lot.

Interesting observation, I assume you are suggesting some form of distancing between genji and kyndy?

though I recommend you ISO Ironstove and Kyndy if you want interesting interactions, Ironstove has yammered since he joined that he thinks kyndy is scum and while he has shifted to superbowl and myself as prime suspects (and given reasons for at least one) I'd like to point out that despite mentioning kyndy a whopping 28 times* (quite a few of them followed by *is scum*) Kyndy has directly addressed ironstove a total of three times. Welcoming him on day 2, getting him mixed up with you and posting a filler post wondering if he should believe him or superbowl.

this is a trend that also existed with ironstove's slot prior host. Sora mentioned kyndy in some form 51 times* and voted her at the very beginning of the game for a very brief period. Kyndy mentioned Sora 27 times*, but as far as I can see never responded to sora voting her. In fact I can only find one post where Kyndy said anything directly to Sora (post 167

That feels like genuine distancing. One player openly calls another scummy and consistently attack them and the other just avoids the first one. And cause there is always someone scummier to go after there is never any genuine move to act on the accusations or defend from them. You cant ever see them on the same team. If kyndy flipped scum,

well of course ironstove is not her partner he spent most of the game calling her scum.

If Ironstove is flipped scum,

well of course kyndy is not the partner, ironstove has been trying to get her lynched since he joined the game. The only reason he never succeeded is because she never gave him a chance to get that ball rolling by ignoring his now obviously scum like attacks on her.

Its all feels a bit fake to me.

I mean you'd think Ironstove would at least call out kyndy at this point for actively avoiding them since they joined the game?

and you should go back and read again because you're autistic/dyslexic/shouldn't be playing mafia because you obviously need to read things multiple times to understand what was written

Or he can just continue being a massive prick?






* please take numbers with a bit of salt it includes times when either poster may have quoted another poster mentioning kyndy. But the point remains, I scoured Kyndy's iso and she never responds to iron's numerous posts accusing her

[Sir Bastion]

Bastion, I've also called you scum and you've ignored me.

Kyndy, can you please respond to my scum accusations. Bastion is panicking and you're ignoring me as his response to my scum claim on him.

you've called me scum three times, the first time you never gave a reason (but promised to iso me) (here)

the second time you again gave no reason (here)

and the third time you did give a reason and *shock and behold* I did respond in 777


It's almost as if when you actually make effort...I respond with effort



So now look who's not reading mr mcshouty offensive angry person.

[Sir Bastion]

Bastion, I've also called you scum and you've ignored me.

Kyndy, can you please respond to my scum accusations. Bastion is panicking and you're ignoring me as his response to my scum claim on him.

you've called me scum three times, the first time you never gave a reason (but promised to iso me) (here)

the second time you again gave no reason (here)

and the third time you did give a reason and *shock and behold* I did respond in 777


It's almost as if when you actually make effort...I respond with effort


So now look who's not reading mr mcshouty offensive angry person.

Btw, I think you are referencing the wrong posts, because nothing you stated is accurate based on the links the posts lead to.

But addressing this post is a big distraction to the bigger question of:

Bastion, can you answer the question I asked you already?

Bastion, are you mafia?

Why are you dodging my question?

Nope they appear to be the correct links, you brought up me being scum three times. Twice you simply stated (or if you must be pendantric, asked in the 2nd post) I was scum, you didnt make a case nor did you explain your suspicions

Third time you actually did accuse me of something (of trying to make myself look like town by putting myself beside the 2 prs) and I responded to it (which is the post I linked)


And to humour you, No I am not mafia. Nor am I scum, I can answer that with confidence because at the moment this is the only game I am active in so I only have a single role to play at that moment and that role is find and hang scum.


But I assume you'll have some other petty annoyance to shout now because clearly you must distract people from going and reading you and Kyndy side by side and seeing that it looks pretty scummy and suspicious.

Or perhaps you'll go back to being offensive and shouting and faux angry, I think there is bit further beneath the barrel you can reach there, maybe you can kick some puppies or wear a *make america great again* baseball cap.

[Sir Bastion]

so "some other petty annoyance to distract people"

gotcha

[Sir Bastion]

I'll be pretty sad if iron gets replaced because of that fight... from my general experience around here it's pretty likely though

what fight?

[Sir Bastion]

783-795

there needs to be a troll smiley in mafiascum

that wasnt a fight

It was a a bit of razzle dazzle

Ok Iron used some language that was a bit much. But it did make a nice show because no one is talking about the 2 points that set him off.

So its clearly worked. we're back to talking about events prior to the fight.

I mean are any of you even going to consider to check Kyndy and Ironstove in iso?

Ahh no, too much drama there...Dont want to go there, things will get nasty


Or thinking about Lycan raising that ironstove unvoting at this point being very suspect?

Again ahh no a lot of drama there.

Pity

as has already been shown there were scum in both wagons, so to abandon your wagon as ironstove did but not actually change your mind on anything (Ironstove has repeated many times since unvoting that old soupbowl is still scum suspect numero uno) that is genuinely suspect.

Though I disagree with the notion that scum would push for a claim so hard, so that part of his case is meh.

but regardless Lycan calls out Ironstove and ironstove's reaction is to shout him down.

Idk I feel like despite all that analysis he's still like not that involved if that makes sense.

In what way?

[Sir Bastion]

So confirm for me

Night 1

you opted to protect Vedith or Shaddowez because you thought Light was lying about being a pr?

[Sir Bastion]

Shadow. My reasoning was that I didn't have proof for either Vedith or Light.

Damn it...

And I had such a good feeling about you.


I dont get dismissing both prs.

I mean firstly I dont get why you didnt protect Light, even if you didnt believe his claim you should have still protected him, he claimed the most powerful role in the game

Vedith even said as much when he claimed here

If he was scum and you both survived night 1 then you'd have a genuine case to push him on.

If he was town and you died, you still saved the most powerful pr in the game.

I dont get why you didnt apply that logic

*But*

I did believe you made this mistake, based on how you softclaimed and crumbed out the mistake, I believed you made the choice of not protecting Light because you didnt believe his claim and you showed that in your day 1 posts, you were scumreading light for most of the day but you showed you had some confidence in Vedith. You put him in your town reads, you showed no issue with his posts and you even approved of his posts at one point.

So why opt to protect Shaddowez over Vedith?

Both in terms of post content (no offencer Shaddowez) and his pr ability Vedith was the better choice.

If Light was lying like i thought you believed, vedith would have been the obvious target for scum. Both a pr that could potential catch one or more of them and a very active day player.


So putting him and light on the same level as simply not having *proof*

That feels off, wrong. almost neutered. As if their actions and even their claimed roles were irrelevant


Pity I was really sure of you from earlier.


Also on a side note your JOAT reasoning is flawed.

It makes a critical assumption of the scum team that none of us can possible know

That they still have their

One shot

ability

For that to happen scum would have needed to know that you were the bodyguard before the end of day 1 and that you wouldnt have protected Light. Very unlikely but lets pretend that was possible.

Then even knowing all that on night 2 they would have had to know that you were going to flake completely from the game for the night. That's pretty impossible unless you announced somewhere else in the forum that you were not going to be around in any form on the forum.



So there is a lot of ground to argue that scum have already used their roleblocker bypass JOAT ability, especially after day 2's theatrics where HH showed himself to be a bit of a wildcard with his choices, he might have picked his highest town read or randomly on night 2 and the joat ability guaranteed that scum could kill him, I cant see them not using it to ensure HH was out.

So No lynch is still an option if there is a genuine concern over your position, it wasnt for me, but now I'm slightly disappointed in your reasoning for night 1 actions. If you cant convince me that there is a genuine thought process behind those actions it may be better that we no lynch and pick things up.

[Sir Bastion]

VOTE: No Lynch

This is best option right now.

so you're in favour of ending the the day a week early?

Why?

[Sir Bastion]

Didn't you just say (Bastion) that no lynching was the best option? I think it is very acceptable that Genji believed that you meant a no lunch /now/

I said it was an option

not the best

and I also meant at the end of the day.

Voting for no lynch now means you want to end today now.

SO why now?

Voting no lynch does not put the game in twilight til the clock runs down (unless they changed that?) it ends the day. Do we want to end today now?

So, Bastion, are you saying that you don't believe Genji's claim unless Genji states a more logical train of thought for what happened night 1 and 2? Cause sometimes, people make mistakes in my view. I don't know, you also kinda contradicted yourself in the middle with saying you believe people can make mistakes but also that he needs to more logically explain himself?

I think you meant Lycan...

Dont believe is a bit strong, less trusting is something I'm more comfortable with, perhaps I felt too confident in my read of his earlier post. I guess the core issue is simply I can see a genuine mistake being made in reading another player as scummy so not believing their claim. We already saw it today with HH vs Vedith. And when I re read day 1 I can see this with Lycan and Light, he made it very clear he saw light as scum so I'm surprised his reasoning for his night action carries none of the same thoughts and am now unsure and less trusting, add on the flawed JOAT fear and there you go.

Hi NM! Long time no see ;P
I am quite ashamed of iron's behavior; mafiascum players just shouldn't play like that, and I skimmed over most of those posts because they were just angry fluff. I don't know why he was wriggling so much though.

I hate you

[Sir Bastion]

kyndy,

do you still want a superbowl lynch today? from your pov, you townread genji

and he's counterclaimed me

. shouldn't i be your lynch?

I clearly missed something here?

[Sir Bastion]

bastion getting in my way (what happened to post #110, bastion?? ) seems suspicious

genji seems obv the best lynch here because i don't think NM/bastion/kyndy is a good team. if this was bastion trying to stop kyndy from spilling the beans, they're still trying to bus genji.

ok a number of things

1. post #110 the key word there is *answer*

the scenario that is scummy as hell is player A saying "Oi PLAYER B why did you do X? and then player C going "Player A!! clearly player B did X because of Y?"

thats scummy, thatas answering a question directed at another player. Which unsurprisingly is not what I did in 846, your question to kyndy remains untouched I didnt answer your question to Kyndy. She's just dodged it by hiding behind me and shaddowez confusion, call her out.


2. 846 was genuine confusion. I put the confusing part in italics.
If it was what superbowl stated a jab at Kyndy consistently mixing up names then sorry it didnt work. The fact you put *he counterclaimed me* puts the action with genji, not kyndy. Which is why I doublechecked genji's iso before posting thinking I'd gone mad and missed a sudden turnabout from genji.


3. Are you in favour of a kyndy lynch today?

[Sir Bastion]

VOTE: Genji


and done

[Sir Bastion]

I'll a big post game write up after everything has been confirmed away.

But unless there is some hidden surprises that was endgame

scum hold 50% of the vote because there is no means for town to block the kill, so town total drops to 6.

Which means there is no night its automatic game over.

Everybody dies

except scum

[Sir Bastion]

More Town lost

Me throughout this entire game:

[Sir Bastion]

Oh I have pages of town play to write.

I'll point out the bloody obvious.

LET THE GENJI SLOT GO

I swear I never saw a town so committed to lynching a lurker in my life.

I practically gift wrapped kyndy to you and instead I had 2 town players accuse me of being the scum partner to Genji.

I mean Kyndy was genuinely active lurking and I was getting so annoyed at it that I was more then willing to lynch my own partner to get things going.

Of course I was also trying to take ironstove down with her.


But christ on a bike, what did Hebee do you to you guys that was so awful that none of you would let it drop?

[Sir Bastion]

I mean the last 2 pages Lycanfire I was genuinely confused at what you were trying to do.

You accuse me of blocking you pushing kyndy so you accuse me of being scum and vote genji?

I am genuinely perplexed

[Sir Bastion]

by the end i was losing my patience and was just about ready to hard bus

but i hate dragging games out

I havnt slept at all this weekend.

Ever since genji got put at L-2 I have been refreshing Kyndy's profile waiting for her to log in.


God was it driving me up the wall. I knew I couldnt vote without kyndy because lycan had me pegged as his partner and if I voted and there was a big gap he might have unvoted or soupbowl would have clicked and unvoted. And I stayed up to 5am my time which was when kyndy normally logs on to follow her vote...and she didnt show

so I stayed going til 6pm which is the other time she sometimes posts


still no show

Now ever so slightly crazy I stayed up again til 5am hoping *this time* she'd show


no luck.

I'm slighly over caffinated and cranky by now when she finally showed up over 2 days later...

*crack*

[Sir Bastion]

I don't know what to think of this setup. I rather don't like it, it seems rather silly to me and too simplistic that it can be usually predicted what scum would do.

Getting Encryptor is more useful and then rest isn't worth it.

Except everything everyone predicted was wrong

EVERYTHING

[Sir Bastion]

Except everything everyone predicted was wrong

EVERYTHING

well actually most town got either 1 scumread right or 2 right they just didnt happen to lynch in the right order

yeah except they were all convinced of a JOAT and scum day chat and despite constantly being pointed out as scummy, neither me or kyndy ever ended up as first choice.

There was a heavy dose of hunting scum via their potential partners which is the worse way to scumhunt period. You should never scumhunt that way. So even if they put 1 of us down as a scumread they always put us with a town player and insisted on lynching that town player first...

Pushing that was actually really sub-optimal because it risked my reputation, confirmed scum within {genji, bowl, me}, and was bad for associations with other scum

ideal play would have just been bussing or doing no-lynch... but if theres a lazy option that ends the game weeks earlier its just too tempting

I am actually amazed that you got that ball going with almost no comment from town, I have a book's worth of deleted posts I wrote up calling out the issues I had but opted not to when I saw town were buying it without comment.

You're hebee case was hilarious

[Sir Bastion]

I think if ranger was alive I would have HAD to bus or no lynch because she probably doesnt let me get away with this lazy push

also ironstove and genji were starting to get wise to what was going on

Oh I never got to tell you

guess who high hopes blocked night 2?

Me!

Its a good thing we talked out who to send to do the kill.


Speaking of which, the mod will want our permission to open the scum chat to the game at the end.

are you in favour or prefer to keep it private?

[Sir Bastion]

*yay*

[Sir Bastion]

I'll write a big post shortly.

But I will add, the person who picked the scum powers left the game before it started, so we genuinely got screwed and honestly if town didnt keep shooting itself in the foot we would have been destroyed...

[Sir Bastion]

also light's post in the dead chat pointing this out:

hebee>you>super. all scumfuckers.

everyone else->townfuckers. i'd no lynch over flipping

kyndy, bastion or rask

and nail your buddies... with my body! or a bullet.

mostly a bullet

You cant make this shit up...

[Sir Bastion]

Is all the night actions up somewhere. I want to know what light did night 1

[Sir Bastion]

yeah that too along with the PR picks
"kraska has requested replacement" in game thread after role PMs were sent out... totally not suspicious

it gets worse *watch this space*

[Sir Bastion]

So Bastions big post of thoughts, all in here is just my opinion (man) you can disagree all you want, i'll gladly discuss any disagreements or agreements or even general mocking, but I like to try and give thoughts at the end of games and really it was a good game and I enjoyed myself and I hope everyone else enjoyed themselves, but we can always improve.

kyndy signed off on the mafia thread so here it is: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=67762


So first things first

All scum powers were picked by Kraska77 who then dropped out of the game and yes they were the most useless choice of powers you can imagine. Role cop, bulletproof and turn the traitor into a goon.

and then they proceeded to drop out before the game started and then go and post a thread in the general mafia section sharing about how they feel bad when they play mafia, in particular when they play scum,

I am amazed that no one put out any suspicion on me simply for the replacement, even without the other thread, players replacing in pregame lends more to scum then town, at the very least its unlikely the person is VT.

Worse someone in this game was posting in the other thread where kraska77 shared their feelings and that person didnt put 2+2 together.


Secondly

Of the 4 hidden PRS the best hidden was actually the one that was forced to claim first, Vedith read like a open forward VT, its why early day 1 I called both him and Superbowl out as confident players, that screams VT to me.

Lycan was pegged as a pr almost straight away because his early posts felt very fake, almost scripted.

And Light breadcrumbed which was a mistake, scum wont ignore a breadcrumb as Vedith pointed out.

Highhopes only mistake was the hammer. I dont know why its not a pr-tell yet but hammering without a care in the world screams PR to me, I have always pushed to nightkilling players who hammer like that if we dont have a specific target and it has more often then not turned up as a PR.


So yes by the start of night 1 scum had pretty much worked out who was a pr and who was a VT.

as seen here:

The game to me stands as following:

NJAC - dead due to inaccuracy
kyndy101 - team win
Lycanfire - possible pr, weak townplay (bodyguard or roleblocker)
superbowl9 -possible vt. strong town
light_ganski *; -Tracker. will be stronger day 2
Vedith - Goon Cop, will be stronger day 2
Hebee Inc (beeboy + hebichan) **; -possible VT, not interested in game
HighHopes (Ranger + Killthestory) ***; -possible PR self destructive (bodyguard or vig)
Raskolnikov *; -team win
shaddowez *; -Innocent child. weak town
SoraAdvent - possible VT. average town
Sir Bastion - team win

though I was sure HH was going to be a vig.

As for players

NJAC: Eager, intuitive and clearly thinking, I didnt get why people went so hard on you for buddying in the early game, rereading your interactions you were clearly keeping track of some points that you came back to and prodded vedith and others on later in the day.

kyndy101: The god of coincidences, I was terrified someone was going to do a proper vote count analysis on day 3 because on both wagons you were L-1 and directly behind me, you're day 1 play was good enough and I'm sorry I bussed you quite a bit, the biggest issue I saw was you were very shallow on your input which made you very easy to bus and day 3 it was very clear you were active lurking because you never ended up getting prodded.

superbowl9: Oh I had to buddy you quick, I knew Vedith would get all prickly if I tried to be nice to him, but you my glorious soupbowl are a good townie to have in my corner...even if I am scum. solid reading except you had a big old blind spot where the genji/hebee slot sat and it blinded you so much. I think more then any other player you lost out the most from the day 2 fuck up, if day 2 had gone as normal and hebee had been lynched I think in day 3 you would have been a much stronger player. I think Raskol played that blind spot too well.

light_ganski *: Sorry man outside of the breadcrumb you didnt give much of a presence I thought, which is probably why you became lynch bait so easily, but on the brightside if you can avoid breadcrumbing you'd give a solid enough pr play if town would be discouraged from trying to lynch you on day 1.

Vedith: Bit of a rockstar poster. I think you still have the highest number of posts in the game despite dying day 2, solid confident town play, a lot of head butting but to me if you get two players aggressively headbutting odds are they are both town, in fact I've always found town vs town to be more aggressive and mean then town vs scum arguments. Such a simple mistake doomed you on day 2 and my heart bleeds. But lesson learnt. I am also glad and terrified that on day 1 I did poke at something that made you go check kyndy. Which was my big mistake as I didnt realize kyndy was the goon, I thought it was Raskol. So I did panic a small bit on night 1.


Genji Hebee Inc (beeboy + hebichan) **; I honestly never saw hebee in such a bad light as the rest of the game. Worse I took from it was a hydra who didnt want to play this game and not making much of an effort, best is if people read her posts in context and not as an ISO they actually make sense. They were a terrible scumhunting via hunting partners policy (lynching Njac because they thought sora was distancing from njac) but they made sense. Genji was an overall better player screwed over simply because nobody really wanted to listen, they were lynching him because they wanted to lynch Hebee.



HighHopes (Ranger + Killthestory) ***; I am so glad we killed you on night 2, you would have been terrifying if you survived without any town voice to butt heads with you (thought maybe Ironstove might have provided that)


Raskolnikov *; You were an excellent scum player, but the biggest note I take away from this game is we both see things very differently and I fear for the game when we are both town, cause I can see a mislynch happening between us. But you had the right amount of camouflage to input ratio that makes a great scum player.


shaddowez *; When you posted you were strong, Raskol knew it enough to fear you, but you didnt post enough which was a shame, Day 3 really was your moment to shine and it never took off.


Not_Mafia ironstove SoraAdvent: Firstly Not_Mafia sorry I cant say much as you didnt get to input much to the game but I get the feeling this slot was a bit like goldilocks and the 3 bears. This player is too timid, this player is too much of a prick but this player is just right. Sora's mistake was that they were too timid, they asked the right questions brought up the right issues but it was muddled and it really did feel that the slightest risk of a vote on them and they backed off. Which is a shame, bit more confidence and aggression with the patience to reread posts to structure them and we'd have something to fear. Cant say the same for Ironstove, a lot of noise and fury but easily pushed and prodded and turned around and prone to a lot of confirmation bias, if they didnt get kicked for flying off the handle this game might have ended earlier, again like Hebee hunting scum via their partners is a terrible way to play the game. Easily isolated and put to the sidelines.

Bastion: Awesome scum play...no not really, good day 2, but day 3 dragged which irked me as I like to keep active, problem with active is the nail sticking out tends to get hammered. so I drew some association claims but it became pretty clear early on that everyone just wanted to lynch genji. day 1 I felt went well, though I'd be curious of how day 2 would have gone without all the pr shake up, we never did get to hear anyone respond to Njac pointing the finger firmly at me at the end.

Lycanfire: And that leaves lycanfire...there is a reason I moved you to the end. You won us this game, I dont want to be mean about it, but everything about your play this game fed us, you were an obvious PR, your lack of night actions genuinely doomed this town, if you had been present on just one night you would have shifted the entire balance of this game. You were playing a PR that gives its life to protect town yet you played like self preservation was the highest priority, your day play when it finally showed up was back and forth timid and predictable to erratic and confusing, I get the feeling you were trying to set traps for scum to stumble into (something Ironstove was doing too I think) but a trap is only good if it catches only scum. You also suffered a small bit from confirmation bias which is the biggest problem when you scum hunt via partners, it feeds that bias leading to easy mislynches. And then there was the Kraska77 thread. I dont know how you didnt put 2+2 together from that thread and the pre game replacement.

Which comes to breaking the little dream I expect to see a lot of players grasp, "we lost but we correctly called Bastion or Kyndy or raskol out as scum before we went down", Dont use that as a comfort, so many of the calls against any of the scum in this game came with a train full of requirements. If it wasnt Mylo and we had flipped Genji as town, would I have stayed as scum suspect 2? Thats the horrible flaw of scumhunting via partners, you think you did ok because you identified one person correctly but you lynched the other and that was wrong and it was just a 50/50 chance and you picked the wrong one.

No thats not what happened you wanted to lynch someone else and you twisted content to fit that lynch so you never really built any sort of case or thought on the other player, you're just using that player to justify lynching the first one.

On a side note the only scum to have any sort of wagon in this game was kyndy from an early day 1 bus. Congrats to Raskol I dont think anyone ever voted you, at least not long enough to reach the votecount.


Anyway it was a fun game playing with you all.

[Sir Bastion]

Oh I just found my post of the game

from scum chat at the end of night 1:

screw it.

We get caught we get caught. best to get things done and not worry about it.


confirm earlier choices

hopefully town stupidity does most of the work for us


it usually does.

[Sir Bastion]

hurray bastion. overall play really great and I think you barely got voted either, only a few people started to scumread you towards the end when it was already too late
the only like big things I noticed about you were
1. the day 1 hop onto NJAC was kind of dodgy given your position previous to it (and a bit earlier, when you were like OMG stop pushing light you weren't counterpushing anything which I think I'd still have noticed as town tho im not sure)

Yeah I got caught catch 22 there, I needed Sora to post as sora was who I wanted to push but it kept being the same 2-3 players (you Njac and vedith) and I didnt have a reason to jump on any of them so I ended up stalling longer then I wanted. I thought Njac gifted me that hop, I could defend that hop til the end of time from a town perspective. Misrep is a serious matter

2. the day 3 active lurking towards the end and like 0 comment on genji the entire day while he was THE lynch target. idk if you did this partly to get people more confbias in associations though.

analysis was fantastic and i really liked your d2

Day 3 was a problem cause I genuinely didnt see Genji or hebee as scummy and didnt feel confident I could twist it convincingly, I always prefer to argue from a position where something can look scummy as hell with the right prodding, Ironstove was a gift to me because I dont know if Kyndy intended or not but she had blanked that slot throughout the whole game, never said a word beyond hello to them, it looked like genuine distancing and ironstove constantly calling her scum but never voting felt like nirvana, I am still a bit sad that it never picked up momentum because when you ISO the two of them it looks blatantly scummy. As for getting the confbiaa, not intended. I dont know what I did to set Lycan off (I am still genuinely confused by those last 2 pages) and ironstove did it to himself he had set what he thought was a trap and the first person to defend superbowl was clearly his partner.

I gladly walked into that because superbowl was the better player and I rather have him on my side then trying to ride the madness that was ironstove.

[Sir Bastion]

I love how everything Mhsmith0 said not to do in the deadchat was exactly what we ended up with...

[Sir Bastion]

Is all the night actions up somewhere. I want to know what light did night 1

tracked hebee

pity I was really hoping for the perfect storm of you tracking me to lycan or raskol coming to beat your brains in.

[Sir Bastion]

But the correct play was to no lynch in MYLo situation.
Lynching in MYLO is almost always bad

to be fair if this was a game where people picked JOAT as one the mafia powers (which is more common than rolecop and ESPECIALLY BP) no-lynch would just have shaddowez killed and one less vote to mislynch someone

so it would have been the optimal choice here but not in like 8 of 10 scenarios similar to this (3 mafia things chosen), so as a theoretical choice it wasnt really that good

actually I take this back
Joat strongman would have been used n2 onto highhopes and not have been available for n3.

Which would mean to resolve Lycan, no lynched was best bet.

We did cover this in game here in the second half of the post.

but as I said Lycan was firm on self preservation and the rest of the town seemed determined to lynch you.

You know something is off when scum is giving genuine accurate helpful advice to town and it gets ignored.

[Sir Bastion]

nah it would have looked bad for me... if there was a kill outside of the PRs people would wonder why it isnt me

that last post before kyndy voted was a bit of an ego trip for you, talking about what to do if you were killed.

[Sir Bastion]

you do know if we ever play in the same game again you'll never be able to trust me


ever

you and raskol will mislynch me to death in every game from here on out.

[Sir Bastion]

I did get invited to another game during this one, but it was on day 2 and day 1 was a 100 pages long so I was very much *nope*

[Sir Bastion]

If Vedith was given free reign scum would have lost a player day 2

If Vedith had been accurate in his report town would have 2 confirmed prs day 2 (1 of which scum didnt know what role they were)

If it hadnt been a perfect storm of both of those scenarios screwing each other over...


Put simply Vedith or HH on their own would have been great for town

both of them together essentially took each other out of the game.

[Sir Bastion]

Told you they would be suspect of your fangirl moment

[Sir Bastion]

scum were

Raskolnikov - scum bulletproof

Sir Bastion - Scum Rolecop

Kyndy101 - traitor turned goon


the powers were chosen by a player who replaced out before the game started so we had no control over them.

night actions were:
night 1

Raskolnikov killed Light

Sir Bastion checked Lycanfire


night 2

Kyndy101 killed HH

Sir Bastion checked Ironstove (got blocked)

[Sir Bastion]

Scum bulletproof is a bad choice imo (I know it wasn't you)
At least I was right about being 3 scum, even if nothing else I did was lol!

Yeah I hated all the choices, none of the powers we took ever really came into dire use.