Newbie 1763 | Foreigners of a Person - Happy Ending?

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Hello everyone. First game hope it's fun.
Now let's make sure I can figure out this vote thing.

VOTE: TOTO

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Let's try this.

VOTE: Toto

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VOTE: Arrowscum

Scummy name

Coming from someone with a scumy avatar.

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The mafia experience I have is on Starcraft 2. I like playing there and another player mentioned playing mafia on forums. I have played town of Salem but didn't like it as much. I was surprised to see so many different choices for forum games.
What are the rest of new players mafia experiences?
Does anyone ever play on Starcraft?


So concerning this game. Does the mod have a choice who is scum? Is it ever two noobs? Does the mod try to balance it and do a noob and experienced player or all experienced players only?

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Come on Fruitsman. You can say a little more than that.

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Unvote

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UNVOTE: Toto

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Sorry, still trying to figure this out.

Thanks for all the info.

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Both of Krylea and Mlmooney, why switch your votes over to Toto.
Someone getting 3 votes on page 1. What warrants that?

Toto, just because you changed avatar doesn't make you less scum. From what I have read a scum play is to avoid conflict. Is that what you are doing by changing it? Avoiding conflict?

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Lots of people out for the early kill.
Can we not let everyone check in first?

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Are we sure there is only 2 scum?

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@Fruitsman
The reason I said "say more" was just because I wanted people to say more. You were the first person to vote without saying anything else at all.
As for my unvote.
I am playing on my mobile. Most of the time I will be. We I got on and read through the post all I saw were Toto votes. There were not any unvotes at the time I was making my post.
It takes we a little longer to type on my phone and I was also trying to scroll up on the page to read the spoiler to figure out how to unvote.

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This is odd. Hmmph.

Why is that odd?

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(unofficial vote count - takes 5 to lynch)

Toto (2)

: mlmooney89, Elhabe21

Arrowscum (1)

: Toto

mlmooney89 (1)

: krylea

Shannon (1)

: Titus

Titus (1)

: fruitsman

Do you have any thoughts about how this game is going? Why not speak to the people who still have votes on you.

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I don't have any scum leads. The closest I see leaning to a scum is Toto. He doesn't say much and I feel like he is not being very engaging even though he has to votes on him. Not enough pressure?
This is a lot harder than I thought it would be.
The ic and se don't say as much as I thought they would. Maybe the more experienced you are the less you say so not to give up anything? I wish if they where town they would begin to give up a little more so I can find more positive things about them.

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VOTE Toto

Maybe it will help a little.

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This is odd. Hmmph.

Why is that odd?

Dunno. Doesn't feel right. What's your handle on sc2?

I play on my sons account. Whemestar

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Shannon thanks for stopping in.
Lol. Back in the day when I was coming up with a name (this was Napster days) screenplay was all ready taken. As I sat there mad about it staring at the monitor I decided this is the new age of computers. I'm going to change what srceenplay is!

Toto you are missing the point or dodging it. If you talked more you would be able to give us a better read on you. I don't understand why not tell us your leads or thoughts on the game. Can you tell me how not sharing your thoughts helps town?

This goes for you as well Titus. Pressure is on Toto now but I would like to hear more of your thought process too.

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Nope. This is the first time I have ever played on any forum

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The scary thing about not having thoughts yet is, if everyone waits for everyone else no one will have any thoughts.

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@ Shannon
I was just wondering if the mod wanted to pick roles could they. My thought process was, if there were two experienced players as scum it could give the town a disadvantage when we would all be new. The opposite could be said if all scum was noob.
Coming into this game I assumed that the experienced players role was to guild us and move the game along. Teach us the flow. If that was the case I would also assume that there had to be one experienced player as scum.
I can tell now that I was wrong about the role of experienced players. They are only her to play there game, with the exception of ic who's only stipulation is can not lie about game mechanics/rules.

About the "are you sure there is only two scum". It was a joke in regards to all the votes going to Toto so fast after his one liner.

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Plus I said the vote links are auto generated. Which means I put 0 effort into it. Just testing out my lil script.

And Im not trying to look town. Everyone that doesn't get that is either scum or doesn't understand sarcasm.

I like the idea of being able to get a vote count when ever we need it.

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Well. This kind of sucks. I'm a Vanilla Townie.

I was attracting attention to myself to see if I could catch some opportunistic scum. Pretty confident we got one in Shannon, though. That is a 100% BS town read she made there.

Great. Claiming VT is very easy. No fear of counter claims.

Honestly, Toto seems really scummy to me. He's metagaming and posting crap.

(I couldn't post before because of timezones. They suck.)

Can you explain to me what meta gaming is?

If Toto had claimed a power role would you have. Even comfortable with that?

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Do you think I should claim this early Titus?

Yes. I don't like it but you are l minus 1.

Why do you not like the L minus 1 vote?
Are we not supposed to pressure someone until the break and talk?
What would you have done differently to get more information out of Toto or someone else?

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For now I want to remove my vote. I'm still looking at other players as well.

UNVOTE: Toto

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Krylea Posted in #35
Toto seemed, as you pointed out, to react defensively to pressure. This can be a scumtell, but also indicates that pressure on that person can lead to responses which might give additional information. Thus, I would definitely like to see more pressure on Toto. That being said, I didn't like mooney's vote at all either, and so my vote is staying parked on them for now.

I agree in the sense that pressure can really give tells of the person, but at the same time it's natural to be defensive in the RVS in these newb games, such as me in my previous one. But with this happening, you randomly switch vote to Toto. (didn't UNVOTE: Screenplay it looks). However I see it as town to add a small amount of pressure to players when acting a bit scummy to get more info out of them.

Also, @Screenplay, you said I should "say more than that" when I vote, but you barely stated anything either when you first RVS vote. Then you follow Krylea by unvoting Toto, which seems pretty sheepish/opportunistic to me.

However, I do want to know more/see more on what others say.

You still around?
After seeing what others have said what are you thinking now?

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Arrowscum, 2 posts.
Fruitsman, 2 posts.
I defently want to hear from the both of them. For me they are both still null.

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Elhabe21 I agree with you on your Toto read. I'm definitely not ready to call him town but I do feel that he put himself into the spotlight on purpose. I can't see why scum would do that. I did see that as an effective way to get people talking and questioning one another.

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Toto can you give us your read list?
What would you like to have seen happen by the time you have came back?

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I think my wagon should be very informative for town. Pretty sure at least one scum jumped in there.

So your read list so far is , at least one of they five people who have voted for me is scum?

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Krylea was actually my biggest town read so far.

I am glad to see you adding context to the game now Toto. Even though it's not exactly what I was wanting to hear.

I think I have a feel on some scum, but I want to continue to watch the conversations, see how a few people interact together. I still need to hear more.

Do you think I should claim this early Titus?

Yes. I don't like it but you are l minus 1.

Why do you not like the L minus 1 vote?
Are we not supposed to pressure someone until the break and talk?
What would you have done differently to get more information out of Toto or someone else?

Titus I can't find where you answered this. Could you point me to that post? I know you said to much IC talk slows development but with not enough does that hurt your trustablity.

For now I am going to try this.
VOTE: Titus

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I did another read through this morning. Didn't learn much of anything new.
@ Mooney
I saw your post about leaving work, will post tomorrow. Does this imply that you will only be posting when your at work?

@ Arrow
I was looking at your profile and noticed it said you were last on this morning. Lurk but no post? Fingers are beginning to point at you. Does that concern you?

@ Titus
Concerning your last post you said the Toto wagon FELT wrong. Do you have any circumstantial evidence that you can give, for anything?Are you still playing on just feelings? If so I wonder how you would feel if we mislynch a town today and another town dies tonight.

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We!! You work to much. You must really enjoy your job.

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And lurking again

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since no one else will I will post some more to het this going. This is my read so far. Some of it is just gut feeling but most importantly I feel i have narrowed down the scum.

Town
Krylea
Fruitsman
Toto
Elhabe21
Titus
Arrow
MlMooney
SHANNON
Scum

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I, personally, thought it was weird to do an unofficial vote count, especially with the links included. That and the trying too hard is enough for me to VOTE: Toto right now.


I like Fruitsman for town. I think I was in his first game quite recently, so it's just a meta read at this point.

Gut feel is Mooney voted Toto to try to look town, but from an actual town perspective. Like it's newbie Fear of Missing Out (or fear of being scum read) for not doing the popular thing.

Can't tell with Titus (I've never seen her IC before).

No idea about the others yet

So here you can see her get onto the Toto wagon. Why not join the others right, it was a good enough reason to.
Also this is where I start to she the Mooney relationship. She tries to explain Mooney's vote for Her like she is a complete noob but if look look at Mooney's first post she explain that she does have mafia experience.

Wow four pages, I wasn't expecting that. I was told by the person that got me on this site that these games last forever compared to our 24 hour phases on AF.org so when it was still on page one when I went home from work I figured I could wait till this morning to check in again. I apologize, I will be more aware from now on. Now a few things.

I am a girl, if you want you may call me Mandy but Mooney works too as long as we get the pronoun right... Toto :p

I voted for Toto based on the comment about his avatar and nothing else. I was taught to create wagons quickly though so we can analyze who is on the wagon. I've played 9 mafia games but they were bastard madness games where you can't trust anything and it is much faster paced so I'm really out of my element here and trying to relearn the style of basic mafia which is why I need this newbie game. I didn't intend to get the wagon to almost lynched I was trying to put heat on Toto so more reads could come of it. Let me go back through the thread with a fine tooth comb and give reads on everyone. Until then,

UNVOTE:

Here I feel Mooney's post here she explains how she plays fast paced games, get in quick with votes.(lynch?) She is not used to people slowing down the past and thinking and analyzing actions. She caught herself and said she wouldn't do it again.

Alright my notes (which aren't much)

Toto I'm sorry but you are acting like you want to be pegged scum. At worst you are scum at best you are anti-town.
Srceenplay has been scum hunting
Elhabe21 scum hunting a little
Fruitsman spoke up with reads
shannon good reads, and I about died laughing with the Africa joke. You get kudos there lol
Arrowscum opinion on toto was discussed which I think is a bit of scum hunting but not enough

Also I got RVS and L-1 but I think I missed what SRC means.

Here you can see her reads. Toto still has the pressure on, and Mooney intends to keep there. Its understandable still right now though.
What does she say about Shannon... a big pat on the back. Personal from Shannons reads all I sam was a "don't worry I got you Mooney."

Im pretty sure Im town and therefore the wagon is quite informative to me. You can also take a leap of faith and assume Im town while holding your breath for a few seconds and try to draw some conclusions based on that. It is not very hard

I would like to hear Shannons opinion on arrow. Im very curious about that.

The point of the game is to not assume not take anyone's word for truth so I'm sorry but your wagon means nothing right now. If you die at some point and turn up town for sure we will go back and look at it. Unfortunately it was really early on so I don't know how much we can take for real game play instead of getting the game started.

Yeah I have mixed feelings about her. Her behavior is very townie looking. my main problem with Krylea is that she has a little too much confidence and is trying to become the voice of town a little too hard.

After continuing on with Toto and with Toto defending his actions Mooney finally says it was early game play, probably doesn't mean nothing.
So then she sheeps directions to the pushy Krylea.


I know this seems like more about Mooney but my gut tells me they are connected. I was waiting to see if I could get more interactions between they to but figured I would just give them a little push. Shannon also has not in my view had an original thought. Her votes come in after someone else votes...so pressure time.

UNVOTE: Titus

VOTE: Shannon

I'm voting Shannon now over Mooney because it puts more pressure on her for now.
I think that puts you at L-2 would you like to say anything or defend Mooney before you go to sleep?

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I'm sorry for being inactive. I was on a vacation (weekend).

Anyways, this game is confusing at this point. Partially because I don't remember your names, lol.


I'm a little concerned about krylea. She's (or he? Idk) trying to lead the town but with little success. Most of her posts are metagaming and fluff. The logic behind her posts is twisted and her intentions shout scum to me.
VOTE: UNVOTE: Srceenplay
VOTE: VOTE: krylea

Hi arrow. Hope you can post more now. Where did you go on vacation to?

You do know if you scroll all the way down to the end of all the posts, you can click on the tab to read each individual persons posts?

If you don't plan on being around for a long while maybe post it on hear so the mod and the rest of us know. Thanks.

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I'm sorry for being inactive. I was on a vacation (weekend).

Anyways, this game is confusing at this point. Partially because I don't remember your names, lol.


I'm a little concerned about krylea. She's (or he? Idk) trying to lead the town but with little success. Most of her posts are metagaming and fluff. The logic behind her posts is twisted and her intentions shout scum to me.
VOTE: UNVOTE: Srceenplay
VOTE: VOTE: krylea

Sooo... you have nothing to say about the current discussion vis a vis mooney and shannon and nothing to say about Toto's wagon?

Honestly, Arrowscum seems very scummy to me right now. First, his inactivity and lurking seems like he's trying not to be noticed and overlooked. Secondly, he states that krylea shouts like scum to him because her posts are twisted, but how? It seems like to me that he's trying to push blame towards krylea for no good reason or theory. Lastly, he isn't sharing any views about the current discussions or about anything really, which almost seems like he doesn't want to get his hands dirty or he's trying to blend in. That's why I'm VOTE: Arrowscum
Now I'm curious to how he'll respond.

I also do not like Arrow's post at all and I do quite like this post - except that again there is no analysis of shannon and mooney from the last page. I think the happenings there were interesting enough to warrant a comment, don't you?



I need to read through mooney, shannon and Arrow's iso-s again. I really don't like Arrow one bit, but Src's case was fairly compelling, and the mooney/shannon interactions still do seem suspicious to me. I'm going to be out for a few hours. I'll try to make take a more detailed look when I get back.

In the mean time, UNVOTE:

If Arrow was scum I would think he would jump on one of these two wagons instead of trying to take heat off of them. Unless Arrow is the scum number 2 and he is worried that he partner is about to be lynched. Personally I think he is uninterested town. He has already said that they are not following forgot names and is confused.



So with one day Shannon and Mooney go from voting each other then with the lack of other people commenting they find enough evidence amongst themselves to unvote each other? Am I reading that right?

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I am still comfortable with were my votes is right now. Maybe by this time tomorrow we will have a replacement for Fruitsman who can and some new perspective and Toto should be back to weigh in.

I think it is possible that Arrow could be a scum, but you aren't going to get much out of him if he is only posting every 36 hours or so. Either way if Arrow is scum, Mooney or Shannon is the partner. I don't see their arguments as TvT. So for now I don't have a reason to switch from one scum vote to another unless some new argument comes up that compels me to.

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I think the goal of lynching is analyzing the aftermath. That is where we will get more information. If there is no lynch and d2 comes with a town dead we won't have anything to go on. Scum will have had a free anonymous kill. What info can we get from that? We would have one less town and be in the same postion as d1 wondering who is the scum. The only difference is we would have one less possible person to point the finger at.

I agree 100%. It's time for Titus to step up.

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Ok, first things first, I don't feel great about Shannon, almost as if they're avoiding me. The action around their wagon is suspect. We can look to see who is NOT put at L minus 1. Claims happen at l minus 1 and claiming boxes scum in. They'd have a free rolefish if she was town.

Right now, I definitely want a wagon on Shannon.

Why not Arrow?
Why not Mooney?

Titus I feel like you are trolling us and we are letting you get away with it because you are the IC. I mean do you really not have anything more to add about the Shannon Mooney wagon? What about arrows behavior?

They vagueness you are bringing us almost seems like a distraction.

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Ok, first things first, I don't feel great about Shannon, almost as if they're avoiding me. The action around their wagon is suspect. We can look to see who is NOT put at L minus 1. Claims happen at l minus 1 and claiming boxes scum in. They'd have a free rolefish if she was town.

Right now, I definitely want a wagon on Shannon.

Sorry. I'm not understanding this post.
Are you saying you don't like Shannon?
Are you saying you don't like her wagon?
Are you saying don't reveal role at L-1?


I think maybe it's to early for me to wake up and try to read through these posts.

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Can I get an updated vote count?

Creature just posted a vote count. I think the only change would be Mooney unvoted Shannon.

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And then voted Arrow

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But how do you know if someone claims VT that they are VT? Does that claim just make everything nil and the point moot? After a power role is claimed and verified do we try and save the power role with another power role over night?

Yeah, a power role would be protected (if possible). If someone claims VT, they may still be scum. We keep scumhunting.

Can you post a link to one of your town games were this has worked?
It would be great if a had an example to read through.

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That game looks so large compared to this one. I would think play style and strategy would be completely different.

Do you have a smaller game, preferably a newbie game.

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Toto is the only one not voting somewhere yet?

@MOD VOTE COUNT PLEASE

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Whew, done with my exam. Man, fuck physics, I'm so done with undergrad.

Seems like a bit of a slow day, not much has happened since I checked this morning. What is with this lack of posting from arrow, shannon, fruit, and elhabe?

I only just got up, it's 8:45AM here.

Might want to give her a couple hours. Look at the time stamps. I'm sure should would still be sleeping right now.

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I guess you would have to look at her ISO for the time stamps.

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And it's getting close to 36 hours for Arrow.
I would expect a post soon from Arrow.

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I just didn't want anyone to get on and well no answer, Hammer.

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I am a super noobie town?
I am more than willing to hear any advice you have. Hopefully Titus has an IC confession.

If you thought my read list was way off why not question it until now?

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Titus. That's clever.

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So Shannon is definitely scum or game throwing town.

She says I am trying to be super noobie in my first game ever.
This is not her first game,she is not a noobie, she is a SE. Yet she just happens to make a quote mistake with a "Shannon vote" when she is L-1. I have seen scum be their own hammer vote but not town. It seems like a indirect vote to throw us off.
Now if she is town I see it as a game throw. Now she gives out her opposite reads after her hypothetical lynch. And when asked to elaborate more she says it doesn't matter I'm done.
If you are town you are not done until the mod says so.

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@Titus
I have been skimming through other games. Most I have seen a role reveal is not given automatically at L-1. It usually comes after someone gives intent to hammer. Is there a reason why you don't wait for the intent to hammer?

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My point is you could have given out any type of read this past week. You didn't.
You wait until you are being voted up to do so. So how does your prejudice apply now but not 12 hours ago?

If I am a scum would I willing be putting myself out there questioning your motives on d1, or would the scum sit back and be quiet a let it play out to see what happens?

Personally I think if you are town and you have anything to say or on your mind I think you are obligated to say it. Why is your prejudice concerning?

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@Titus
I have been skimming through other games. Most I have seen a role reveal is not given automatically at L-1. It usually comes after someone gives intent to hammer. Is there a reason why you don't wait for the intent to hammer?

Yes, because it is wrong strategy and enables blitz hammers.

You told me when I posted to everyone to have caution and give Shannon time to answer because of time difference, don't worry everyone knows that. People don't blitz hammer. That would be a policy lynch.

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So if it was an accident she is town but if it wasn't she is scum?

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Would it be easier if we all told you our roles?

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Is everyone else ok with this? Claiming roles before even an intent to hammer? I'm sure at least two people are.

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You posted as I was typing.

So I can say I'm not comfortable with the way it has been going. It would seems that Mooney and Toto agree. Anyone else?

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Posted before me again

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I am still suspicious of Shannon.

UNVOTE: Shannon

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VOTE: Titus

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I think Titus is trolling us. She started the game with simple one liners without a lot of substance. The questions I ask, I feel get answered in a round about way or not at all.

I am still suspicious of Shannon. But I don't know if I see it possible that both of them are scum. I didn't how she gave her town reads late, quoted lost of post to make cases and then say she is done not doing anymore because she doesn't want her prejudice to influence town.

Arrow should have been prod already. So I think he is more of a just not interested in the game person.

Krylea was my top town read. People started questioning her tactics and calling them scuming and now her post have fallen off.

Mooney used to be a scum read but her frustration with town and there scum hunting seems genuine to me.

Fruit and elhabe lack of inactivity and coming in right before the prod time to post is suspicious. It's like they are purposely sitting back and waiting. For what I don't know.

Toto had odd post at the beginning, that I believe were to get people talking and get the game going. It worked. Honestly town started toslow down when he went on v/la

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Wait, hold the damn phone. The majority of players in the game were scumreading shannon, then she claims VT and accidentally maybe-self-hammers...and now we are just ignoring her because Titus and Titus alone decided she was townreading her? Is literally anyone else townreading shannon?
The wagon on Toto fizzled out, the wagon on shannon was slow to start and fell apart, then was revived...and now its fizzling out again? Does noone else find that suspicious as hell?

And vis a vis theory, the way we should play this is focus on scum, get them to L-1, give them a chance to claim so we make sure we aren't tunnelling a PR and then

lynch them if they aren't a PR

. Not mass unvote because we all get cold feet and start second guessing all our wagons. All that does is exactly what srceenplay and mooney said - gives more information to scum.

I don't like what Titus has been suggesting, but I am not sure I agree with the Titus scumreads over it - this seems like a theory question, and

ICs cannot lie about theory

. It's in the rules.

Was it posted here that IC cannot lie about theory? Can you show me. I thought it was just cannot lie about how the game works/mechanics.

What is vis a vis

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@titus

With your IC hat can you tell me that in noobie games the optimal strategy is to get someone to L-1 force them to claim role before some one had intent to hammer. Do it fast before scum rushes the hammer?

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Well, looks like I'm alive.

And no, Mooney, we don't line 'everyone' up, we look at the people who are scummy and line *them* up. You are really over-simplifying things.

With this reasoning when do we stop and hammer? I guess I'm missing that point. It still just looks to me like someone is fishing for roles.

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The point is to make sure someone isnt a PR before they die, not to randomly run each person up to L-1 and get a claim. This game has just been stupid because we keep refusing to actually lynch someone so we just keep running up more and more people. The idea is to only make them claim if they would actually get lynched otherwise.

But we haven't been playing that way, why?

[Srceenplay]

If you claim another role you force the other PR to counter claim and reveal himself. If you are bp there could be a jailkeeper. If you claim doctor the jK will say you are lying because the set up is impossible and now you cost us a jk

It depends on how much you trust the people you're playing with and the individual game. If I were already 'known' to be a PR because of my general vibe, I'd totally claim the wrong one if I were pushed, and encourage no one to counter it.

Wait, hold the damn phone. The majority of players in the game were scumreading shannon, then she claims VT and accidentally maybe-self-hammers...and now we are just ignoring her because Titus and Titus alone decided she was townreading her? Is literally anyone else townreading shannon?
The wagon on Toto fizzled out, the wagon on shannon was slow to start and fell apart, then was revived...and now its fizzling out again? Does noone else find that suspicious as hell?

And vis a vis theory, the way we should play this is focus on scum, get them to L-1, give them a chance to claim so we make sure we aren't tunnelling a PR and then

lynch them if they aren't a PR

. Not mass unvote because we all get cold feet and start second guessing all our wagons. All that does is exactly what srceenplay and mooney said - gives more information to scum.

I don't like what Titus has been suggesting, but I am not sure I agree with the Titus scumreads over it - this seems like a theory question, and

ICs cannot lie about theory

. It's in the rules.

Titus is doing exactly what she's supposed to be doing, and she's giving you good advice.

If you scum read me, keep pushing. If you think I'm town, unvote me. It's that easy.

The point is to make sure someone isnt a PR before they die, not to randomly run each person up to L-1 and get a claim. This game has just been stupid because we keep refusing to actually lynch someone so we just keep running up more and more people. The idea is to only make them claim if they would actually get lynched otherwise.

This. This is what I think Mooney is missing. And really, two people (me and Toto) is not 'everyone'.

what is it that Mooney is missing? I am not understanding what you are trying to say. And were is this "everyone"

[Srceenplay]

Well, looks like I'm alive.

And no, Mooney, we don't line 'everyone' up, we look at the people who are scummy and line *them* up. You are really over-simplifying things.

This must have been the "everyone"

[Srceenplay]

My point is you could have given out any type of read this past week. You didn't.
You wait until you are being voted up to do so. So how does your prejudice apply now but not 12 hours ago?

If I am a scum would I willing be putting myself out there questioning your motives on d1, or would the scum sit back and be quiet a let it play out to see what happens?

Personally I think if you are town and you have anything to say or on your mind I think you are obligated to say it. Why is your prejudice concerning?

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I am finding this ridiculous and I'm going to walk away for a bit, it's giving me headaches. Lynch me or don't, just get around to some actual gameplay please.

I think this is some of the most game play we have had since it has started, dont you?

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The reason I voted Titus is because I thought she was trolling us. Trying to fish for all of our roles. If everyone agrees that she isn't and can't lie about that being optimal strategy then I have to take my vote off.

UNVOTE: Titus

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My point is you could have given out any type of read this past week. You didn't.
You wait until you are being voted up to do so. So how does your prejudice apply now but not 12 hours ago?

If I am a scum would I willing be putting myself out there questioning your motives on d1, or would the scum sit back and be quiet a let it play out to see what happens?

Personally I think if you are town and you have anything to say or on your mind I think you are obligated to say it. Why is your prejudice concerning?

Now, does any one else feel that Shannon has answered this for me? If so could you point out where?
For now Shannon is still where my suspicion is. I don't think "accidentally" voting yourself automatically makes you town.

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So your read Titus having a bad read and Shannon not playing for the intrust of town. Anti-town is Scummy.
Anyone else want to add anything?

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The point is to make sure someone isnt a PR before they die, not to randomly run each person up to L-1 and get a claim. This game has just been stupid because we keep refusing to actually lynch someone so we just keep running up more and more people. The idea is to only make them claim if they would actually get lynched otherwise.

But we haven't been playing that way, why?

Because Titus either

a) Has been uninterested in this game and never explained it properly/just didn't phrase it the right way (town!Titus)


or

b) is telling the *technical* truth by saying that generally people at L-1 are forced to claim, but either phrased it in the right way to suggest getting claims through wagoning or just let the town assume that and didn't correct them (scum!Titus)

Titus do you agree with any of these statements. If so, A or B.

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If no one else has any other arguments they want to make on Shannon or anyone else, my vote is going to go back on Shannon.

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I have stated that voting Shannon is a mistake. Apparently others think voting is a mistake OR they are lurking.

UNVOTE: Titus

VOTE: Krylea

This entire game I have been watching your reads and playstyle and it comes off as sense of false Town Leader.

Your accusations have been heated and you harshly defend yourself which adds to your argument a type of authority.

Because of your activity and Screenplay's call of town for you have fallen into somewhat a safety net.

-Shannon as Town - Because she has been adding analytical reasonings to her reads and posts
-Toto as Town - Because he comes off as a newb with little exp. and not knowing exactly how to react to the posts which I had trouble with
-Screenplay Scummy - his constant questioning falls for Pro-Town but this comes off to me as a scum tactic because if you are actively scumhunting everyone, who will in-turn do it?
-Arrow - Uninterested town because of their lack of analysis of "in-depth" content but also because they don't seem to interested in D1
-Titus - Slightly scummy because of the whole idea of IC can't lie
-Elhabe - Scummy because they call out my inactivity/"lack of content" similar to theirs yet I have been posting consistent information and updates of what my reads are as to their changing and suspicious activity.
-Mooney as town because not only of their frustration but responses to pressure

I agree that D1 is lasting to long, but I highly disagree with a Hammer on Shannon.

Arrow- is over 3 days now. Don't know how they can still be considered in game.
Mooney -is Mia.

@MOD, IS MOONEY BEING REPLACED

Titus- IC CAN lie but just not about game mechanics. Now where that line is drawn has an effect on where I place her.
Elhabe and Fruitsman- I see about the same. Both with very limited post and lurky.
Krylea and Toto- I see them both as town. The both want us to stop voting for role calls and I agree with that.
Shannon- again does anyone think she has answered my question?

What did you mean by "who will in turn do it"?

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Guys I've asked to be replaced. I'm not playing anymore.

Sorry to hear that. I enjoyed the little time we had.

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Welcome To the game Grey.

Both of Krylea and Mlmooney, why switch your votes over to Toto.
Someone getting 3 votes on page 1. What warrants that?

Toto, just because you changed avatar doesn't make you less scum. From what I have read a scum play is to avoid conflict. Is that what you are doing by changing it? Avoiding conflict?

Why ask the question if you're simply going to give away the correct response?

Toto changing their avatar to avoid a vote was great grounds for a wagon. You asking for and providing those grounds in the same post doesn't make sense.

It has been a week since then, I would assume it was a more of a redundant question.

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The motive of that post would be questioning Toto

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since no one else will I will post some more to het this going. This is my read so far. Some of it is just gut feeling but most importantly I feel i have narrowed down the scum.

Town
Krylea
Fruitsman
Toto
Elhabe21
Titus
Arrow
MlMooney
SHANNON
Scum

What did fruitsman do in his three posts up to this point that warranted such high placement?

What has Elhabe done at all? Even if she's in null range, Titus has done more than her so it still doesn't make sense.

I thought Fruitsman started of the game well with asking people questions. It felt like what I was try to do.
With Titus I have felt uncomfortable with the ic and lying. I feel like there is a catch to that I'm not getting. Plus I thought some earlier post were vague and dodgy. That's why Titus is below null. Elhabe hasn't done anything.

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"Some of it is just gut feeling"
From what I said and that ^ it just feels right.

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It's a recent position I take based on the rise of derp hammers, so no I cannot. It used to be that we could wait for intent to hammer, but some players just hammer anything at L minus 1.

So you only just recently decided this is optimal? How recent?

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Why Shannon so hi?

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I don't understand this at all.

So why do scum hammer themselves sometimes.

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Can you elaborate on why elhabe

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I understand that. But if you look at that entire exchange was it not acting antitown?

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It's a recent position I take based on the rise of derp hammers, so no I cannot. It used to be that we could wait for intent to hammer, but some players just hammer anything at L minus 1.

So you only just recently decided this is optimal? How recent?

1-2 months ago give or take.

Ok. So you can link to it and tell me about it

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I don't think "accidentally" voting yourself automatically makes you town.

I agree with you here. But it was Titus who said that, not Shannon. Shannon's willingness to die is anti-town. Not sure if that makes her scum.

Actually it's indicative of town.

Death is anti-scum more than it is anti-town because scum would lose half their team upon the death of a member.

Do math.

Its anti town if she is town. It makes our numbers smaller too

Lynching anti-town does not advance my wincon.

Well it should. Who does an anti town help win?

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Ok. Let's go about it a different way. What would be the motive to post anti town?

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Playstyle would show all game long. Do you see that?

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Ok. Everyone seems to be ok with your reasoning. I will move on.
I am still learning and figuring out playstyles.
I suppose you are right, it was a risky gamble.

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So on elhabe we are going on lack of information is the information?
I understand what you are saying about her it's just not much there.

Again I will say it is a little off that Krylea began the game strong but when people started questioning her motives her posts have backed down.


And a game question. Does scum have day talk?

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Krylea and Elhabe, can we get some read lists from you two.

[Srceenplay]

Elhabe has a little amount of post and information and substance. So the lack of, is the evidence/suspicion?

[Srceenplay]

Krylea and Elhabe, can we get some read lists from you two.

Town
Srceenplay
Toto
fruit
---
Titus
elhabe
---
arrow
mooney/grey
shannon
Scum

Can you elaborate on them.

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As I read through Krylea's it looks as if she is trying to push other people's reads.
Definitely doesn't seem as aggressive as before.
VOTE: Krylea

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UNVOTE: Krylea

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I'll come back to that thought later.

I have seen Elhabe lurk twice today without saying anything.

VOTE: Elhabe

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Now lurk and not say anything

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*try to lurk and not say anything

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I have seen her online once more since I have posted.

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@MOD are you still looking for arrow replacement?

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Welcome Hellfire

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Im pretty sure the lets compare names tomorrow means she is expecting a green flip here. Why else would she said that. Also the now vs not doesn't change anything.

"People scum reading me are now scum reading my target" means she doesn't trust people in the wagon
"Lets compare names tomorrow" means she is expecting this to flip green and expose those people.

Yet she still supports the wagon.

@screen where did see elhabe online? Elhabe if you are a pr you have to claim.

On the bottom of the home page. Every time I open up the page I glance at the bottom to see if I recognize anyone on.

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Yes. Saturday night for me. Christmas party time.
I think Elhabe flacked out.

@ Mod Can you prod Elhabe?

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Now Krylea needs prod.


Are we just going to sit here and wait for elhabe replacement? We only have about three days left. How normal is it for games to die out like this?

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GG both of you.

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GG both of you.

GJ being so town we had to kill you n1, lol.

I figured that's what is was. First game. Try hard.

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GG both of you.

GJ being so town we had to kill you n1, lol.

I figured that's what is was. First game. Try hard.

I was so sad You were townreading me so hard early d1 that I hoped I could keep you alive and lead you down the garden path, but you caught on to me by the end of d1.

I don't think I was ever convinced you were scum. I was definitely ready to revaluate though. I never understood why Titus could push Shannon as town so hard. It read to me that she knew more information than the rest of us.

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I thought you were confirmed town buddy at the beginning.

I do think the flow of this game was slow.