Newbie 1763 | Foreigners of a Person - Happy Ending?

[mlmooney89]

I've played mafia on atheistforums.org so I know the general game but this is my first one here. Should be fun to see the differences.

[mlmooney89]

Srceenplay, you need to bold or use vote tags to officially vote.

VOTE: Shannon

I am your IC. My job is to help you find your playstyle and define any terms.

Mlmooney89, I would like a link to your games. Also, roles work differently from site to site. I will take a quick gander to see if that may be true.

I think you have to be a member to see the boards but I can still give the link.

I'm playing this game currently.
http://atheistforums.org/thread-46612.html

[mlmooney89]

VOTE: fruitsman

[mlmooney89]

VOTE: Toto

Trying too hard.

[mlmooney89]

Wow four pages, I wasn't expecting that. I was told by the person that got me on this site that these games last forever compared to our 24 hour phases on AF.org so when it was still on page one when I went home from work I figured I could wait till this morning to check in again. I apologize, I will be more aware from now on. Now a few things.

I am a girl, if you want you may call me Mandy but Mooney works too as long as we get the pronoun right... Toto :p

I voted for Toto based on the comment about his avatar and nothing else. I was taught to create wagons quickly though so we can analyze who is on the wagon. I've played 9 mafia games but they were bastard madness games where you can't trust anything and it is much faster paced so I'm really out of my element here and trying to relearn the style of basic mafia which is why I need this newbie game. I didn't intend to get the wagon to almost lynched I was trying to put heat on Toto so more reads could come of it. Let me go back through the thread with a fine tooth comb and give reads on everyone. Until then,

UNVOTE:

[mlmooney89]

Alright my notes (which aren't much)

Toto I'm sorry but you are acting like you want to be pegged scum. At worst you are scum at best you are anti-town.
Srceenplay has been scum hunting
Elhabe21 scum hunting a little
Fruitsman spoke up with reads
shannon good reads, and I about died laughing with the Africa joke. You get kudos there lol
Arrowscum opinion on toto was discussed which I think is a bit of scum hunting but not enough

Also I got RVS and L-1 but I think I missed what SRC means.

[mlmooney89]

I have nothing really on Krylea or Titus.

[mlmooney89]

It's cool.

Hey anyone is there a way to kudos, one up, like or whatever people's comments on this site?

[mlmooney89]

VOTE: Toto
Because it seems like you're being desperate by trying to act innocent

Plus it seemed like Toto was threatening Screenplay when Toto got voted

I agree in the sense that pressure can really give tells of the person, but at the same time it's natural to be defensive in the RVS in these newb games, such as me in my previous one. But with this happening, you randomly switch vote to Toto. (didn't UNVOTE: Screenplay it looks). However I see it as town to add a small amount of pressure to players when acting a bit scummy to get more info out of them.

Also, @Screenplay, you said I should "say more than that" when I vote, but you barely stated anything either when you first RVS vote. Then you follow Krylea by unvoting Toto, which seems pretty sheepish/opportunistic to me.

However, I do want to know more/see more on what others say.

These are why I said I was okay with these two. (sorting these quotes is a lot harder than I am used to so I apologize if I screw it up.
Elhabe21 is seeing the aggression that I saw in Toto so that makes me think she is paying attention to the thread and looking for scum.
fruitsman I originally voted randomly for and saw nothing of interest from it but then after this post of his I give off that he is weighing people's reactions and comparing them to how he thinks during his newb game which makes me think town. He turns around and questions srceenplay's actions which I see as hunting.

[mlmooney89]

I think my wagon should be very informative for town. Pretty sure at least one scum jumped in there.

Your wagon would have had to go through and you would have to die and show up green before we can analyze your wagon sweetie.

[mlmooney89]

We don't have to vote for a scum read. It's not mandatory. I said he was anti town. I did vote for him and didn't want a lynch so early so I unvoted him. We have time and my vote doesn't have to stay on one person.

[mlmooney89]

Nor do I have to have a vote on someone at all times. You are being very pushy krylea.

[mlmooney89]

I'm leaving work here in a few minutes and won't be back until tomorrow morning so I will catch up here once I clock in and get situated. Night y'all.

[mlmooney89]

Im pretty sure Im town and therefore the wagon is quite informative to me. You can also take a leap of faith and assume Im town while holding your breath for a few seconds and try to draw some conclusions based on that. It is not very hard

I would like to hear Shannons opinion on arrow. Im very curious about that.

The point of the game is to not assume not take anyone's word for truth so I'm sorry but your wagon means nothing right now. If you die at some point and turn up town for sure we will go back and look at it. Unfortunately it was really early on so I don't know how much we can take for real game play instead of getting the game started.

Yeah I have mixed feelings about her. Her behavior is very townie looking. my main problem with Krylea is that she has a little too much confidence and is trying to become the voice of town a little too hard.

I like this. You said what I was thinking when I said she was being pushy. I don't know where I stand on her either but it's worth noting.

[mlmooney89]

@ Mooney
I saw your post about leaving work, will post tomorrow. Does this imply that you will only be posting when your at work?

Mostly yes. I prefer a desktop for mafia playing. I work 7 days a week though so it's not like I will be gone much, nor missing much.

[mlmooney89]

Lol it's ok, mostly just bored. The husband is end and works 24 hour shifts so if I don't want to sit in front of a tv playing video games all weekend I need a job lol
Anywho anyone else wanna weigh in on the game?

[mlmooney89]

Ems not end

[mlmooney89]

Oh I apologize for changing my stance once I realized that my old tactics don't work here. /sarcasm

I really don't know how random talking and talking about the same damn thing really helps the game. Throwing a wagon on a person is what gets people talking I tried that but y'all freaked out saying it was too early. I'm not sure how much more we can talk about the one wagon we formed nor how we are supposed to get reads from nothing. Day one sucks yes, and 9 out of 10 times town gets lynched no matter how much talk there is. I want more wagons, hell wagon me. I don't care cause at least that's summin to talk about. Seeing how there is already a vote on Shannon and you think I am bffs with her cause I liked her play so far instead of Kryleas harsh tactics let's go that way. I've been trying to hold back due to not wanting to pretend I'm an expert at this game seeing how game play is too different but ya know what this game is going nowhere like this so might as well play how I'm used to. If someone gets lynched soon so be it.

VOTE: shannon

[mlmooney89]

I voted to show no connection yes but that's only a small portion. You also already had two votes and I'm not concerned if you get lynched. Saying YOU aren't concerned isn't a helping factor for you. And please tell me why if I was with screenplay would we be so blatantly obvious about it?

[mlmooney89]

I voted to show no connection yes but that's only a small portion. You also already had two votes and I'm not concerned if you get lynched. Saying YOU aren't concerned isn't a helping factor for you. And please tell me why if I was with screenplay would we be so blatantly obvious about it?

[mlmooney89]

Sorry about the double post, it didn't say it was loading and I didn't think my finger hit the submit button... This is why I hate being mobile.

[mlmooney89]

Because I feel like we are getting no where and something has to be done. A wagon is needed, a real wagon. This whole two weeks thing is a bit much. If this is how it always is this might be my only game. I'm hoping out side of newbie games things pick up. Sitting around talking does nothing for me so I wagon people. You had two votes on you already so I made a wagon. You seem to be replying pretty level headed so I might have my answer. I already got my answer from Toto, he was playing anti town but I think he might just have that play style. His reaction made me put him in the town pile. I will tunnel people one at a time but it only works if people are on the wagon with me. Wagons aren't forming by themselves so I have to go with what I have.

[mlmooney89]

Krylea you are really starting to piss me off. You act like your play style is the only way to play this game. Just because the way I play doesn't fit into your pretty little box doesn't mean a thing. I will admit all day long to waggoning random people on day one. I've seen the proactive move work. You bitch about voting and when I do you bitch why I voted. Day one doesn't yield deaths to scum, it's a proven ratio. Therefore town is going to die. The way town comes away with any info is on the wagon. You analyze the wagon and yes I know a few tactics on how to analyze it but im sure as hell not giving scum that info until after the flip. What is the point of sitting here for two weeks arguing?

[mlmooney89]

Alright it must be because y'all don't have experience. I am not doing anything out of the ordinary but apparently to y'all that makes me scum. I didn't say it always leads to town death. I said the ratio was proven. With the majority of us town statistically the chances of us hitting one of the few scum is small. Random wagons work because; if you target everyone at least once no one flies under the radar, you can see who is hesitant to get on others wagons, you can see where they get on the wagon (Which is very important) and you can see who jumps on in follow me fashion. All of these are helpful to town. Just voting scum reads doesn't scare anyone into acting out it just gets everyone frazzled. Day one is usually only good for wagon reads, no real personal reads are going to be legit at this point. We don't know each other well enough. If in later games we get to know one another's play styles sure day one is more helpful. I had one player that always became extremely defensive when waggoned as town but played it cool when she was scum. We caught on and were able to tell which she was. She finally stopped doing that so it doesn't work anymore but it did for awhile. We don't have that advantage playing with strangers so we have nothing to really read until the wagons hit.

Um when have I ever said anything negative about you and the Toto wagon? I was seeing you as pretty much town this whole game. I waggoned you because, and I will say it again, you already had two votes and wagons hafta start somewhere. My play is logical, just because you don't understand it doesn't change it.

I apologize if I'm getting irritated but being called scum for using pretty well known mafia tactics is extremely frustrating. I made a bad call getting into a newbie game and that's not yalls fault. This is supposed to be intro mafia not normal tactics. Me trying to explain them when not everyone even has the game down is me being difficult it seems and while I am providing you with helpful info in later games it's just confusing y'all now. I don't apologize for my style of scum hunting only that I got frustrated.

[mlmooney89]

And give up? I don't think so. I apologized and I meant it but I still will finish the game. I was just frustrated that y'all pegged me for scum simply cause I wasn't following the line. But oh well I accept that and I will refocus.

After tunnelling Toto and shannon I feel pretty good they are town. Krylea is pretty hardcore so despite our differences I see town. Now let's see who has other votes on them... Arrow, screenplay, and Titus. Hmmm

[mlmooney89]

" I am not doing anything out of the ordinary" - you have admitted to not playing on this site, so how do you know your play is not out of the ordinary?

Because the basic game play tactics remain the same. The differences are bastard vs regular, who knows what, when scum can talk... Tweaks to the rules but the point is always the same.

By telling us that you start and join wagons at random, have you not removed any advantage of doing it though? Who's to say that I don't now flip a coin to see whether Ishould be on the wagon, and then roll dice to show in what place? How would you get a read on me based on that? Can I not circumvent your analysis by announcing that I'll always join a wagon once it's at two votes, and I'll hammer whichever wagon is at L-1 by the end of the day? Your system is a bit broken.

My system is not broken it is used all the time and wins for town. No I don't think it removes the advantage of the wagon by saying it's random because this is literally just a day one tactic. You wouldn't use this come the next day phase. Scum know who the town are so they know who they should be careful around and who to target, a random doesn't change that. Announcing when you join a wagon is not what I'm trying to accomplish, if someone who knows this tactic wouldn't do that as a blanket rule. What we are trying to do is scare people into thinking they will get lynched. Yes they know it's just a tactic but the fact that scum could move the balance is still there so the fear is still there. People have been known to act different under the pressure of a wagon which is why we do it. Just one or two votes against them does nothing which is why I was against everyone voting Willy nilly.

Voting scum reads can actually scare people. People do funny things under pressure, even on D1. I would ask you not to assume that people are getting 'frazzled'. What would 'frazzled' look like, and why is it a bad thing?

Why would one vote scare anyone? And yeah they do act out on day one but take Toto for instance. I was sure at first he was scum but after almost getting lynched I decided his reaction was town. Frazzled is when everyone is at everyone with no leads to follow. Chaos that takes forever with no results. It's bad because it's a waste.

And I disagree about personal reads. Leaving personality and play style aside, you can get a feel for whether people are being inconsistent or irrational. Examples of this are what I pointed out to you, i.e. voting your town read as you have done on me. That, on this site, is considered inconsistent and scummy.

I don't think it's this site I think it's the newbie games. No one wants to delve too deep while trying to teach the game. I'm not replying anymore to tunnel you this is just me explaining.

Also, some of us already do know each other a bit. And we can always check each others' post history to find out more. So it's not as blank a slate as you think it is.

Are we going back through the games and analyzing their style? I won't be for three reasons. That's a lot of work, if they are playing here they probably don't have a style yet worth looking into, things are learned each game and styles change so you might find an old style and could hurt town. For a few games I was holding grudges against people from last games and it was hindering things cause rolling scum is just a roll of the dice.

[mlmooney89]

Im going to unvote shannon so she doesnt get caught in a lynch. I need new reads but need to get to work and my desktop for that.

UNVOTE:

[mlmooney89]

It's the reaction I look for. Instead of defending herself she was scum hunting me back. That is a town sign for me. My experience is that scum, unless really seasoned player that has a great poker face, will defend themselves first.

[mlmooney89]

•Srceenplay town
•fruitsman MIA?
•krylea town
•Elhabe21 Has a vote, I could use a wagon on for interigation
•Arrowscum- has a vote, ditto
•Toto (SE) town
•shannon (SE) town
•Titus (IC) Null, could use questioning. Won't count the one vote since fruitsman had to be prodded.

To those that have played games on this site, are scum known to be the quiet ones? I've had people fly under the radar saying real life is getting in the way and keeping them busy but they were scum and pulled out with a win.

[mlmooney89]

interrogation**

[mlmooney89]

I know titus said she will catch up today but she is who I most want to hear from right now. Our seasoned person can be either side.

[mlmooney89]

Alright then let's wagon arrow and see how it goes.

VOTE: Arrowscum

[mlmooney89]

I think the goal of lynching is analyzing the aftermath. That is where we will get more information. If there is no lynch and d2 comes with a town dead we won't have anything to go on. Scum will have had a free anonymous kill. What info can we get from that? We would have one less town and be in the same postion as d1 wondering who is the scum. The only difference is we would have one less possible person to point the finger at.

I agree 100%. It's time for Titus to step up.

OMG YES I have been trying to say this all along. We will get no where until we lynch someone, doesn't matter who, just someone. Chances are they will be town, yeah it sucks but someone has to die and for day one no one can be sure who is what. The faster we get to day 2 the better off town will be. Dragging this out just makes everyone mad at everyone. If we wait around to find scum on day one we will run down the timer and we get nothing. In the game I'm playing now on my other form we had a wagon ready for death on one person and then second guessed it and switched the wagon. That second person must have had some kind of power because although we lynched him the person we were going to lynch died. Now we get to analyze who was on that first wagon when and who was on the second. It helps more than scum hunting.

[mlmooney89]

If we can get one solid wagon we can analyze it. THEN we can determine who looked scummy on that and go back and look at toto's wagon. His won't be as definite because we don't KNOW he is town but with as many as us thinking he is it will help. Shannon and arrow both have two votes now. Please pick out of the two and start a real wagon. I beg of you, this day one is almost never ending!

[mlmooney89]

This has nothing to do with the game just an observation in differences in the different mafia sites. I'm very surprised with the whole claiming thing. In the other sites claiming was almost a unwritten rule not to, especially on day one. I've found it to kill the game because if you are VT you get away with it and most, including scum, would claim it. If you do have a power role you've just exposed yourself to scum. Now they know who to kill over night. Not claiming and not pushing for others to claim was always seen as pro town so you don't paint an arrow on the power roles backs.

[mlmooney89]

But how do you know if someone claims VT that they are VT? Does that claim just make everything nil and the point moot? After a power role is claimed and verified do we try and save the power role with another power role over night?

[mlmooney89]

Alright, cool cool. Thanks for explaining it that makes sense that with such a structured set up we could save them still, especially on day one. Are the bigger, more bastard games also like this or do they get more complex in their claiming?

[mlmooney89]

We have got to get a lynch soon. We are doing nothing for town by sitting here twiddling our thumbs. No one can be sure anyone is town and chances are we will lynch town anyway. Let's just get the lynch over, get through the night, and get going on real analysis.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: shannon

[mlmooney89]

I really want this day to end but I find it a very dick move if we count misquotes against Shannon. These quoting features aren't the best and it's easy to jack them up. Votes should be counted when intentional. Anyone can see she did not mean to do that. All the mod has to do is go in and edit the quote tags for her and bam she didn't "vote".

[mlmooney89]

Okay this whole claiming right before you get lynched is a joke. We might as well just go in a circle and claim. That's what this game is boiling down to. Wagon on Toto? Claim, Wagon on Shannon? Claim... and so on and so forth. In the end we have outed our power roles and have a bunch of VT claims. So now we lynch one of the VT's (cause you know now that we got the PR's out of the way we have less to pick from) But hey now scum can pick from our PR's to kill and we can protect those that we can. Then we line those VT's back up and lynch one again so that scum takes another power role. This can't seriously be how all the games are outside of newbie games... is it? This whole lining up our wagons, waiting for a claim, then rewagoning crap is getting exhausting.

[mlmooney89]

Then what is the point of this game? Let's all just role claim and save time. There is literally no mystery left in this game. This has ceased to be fun.

[mlmooney89]

I Pm'd Creature to ask how replacements work. I'm not interested in a game that we just line people up for them to role claim. I've looked into three other newbie games and have seen very little of asking people to claim and even one IC saying NOT to claim. And please don't think my alignment has anything to do with why I don't like how this game is played. I'm sitting here wanting a real sport of figuring out the mystery of who is scum and if we are just all going to sit here and tell each other the one thing that turns the tide of the game then that isn't sport at all.

[mlmooney89]

For the record to everyone I'm not against anyone here nor do I think Titus is cheating. I just think we have two very different playstyles. I would follow hers if I were y'all. She went into this knowing she was training newbies and possibly that is the best way for people to learn mafia here. I just can't play like this. I feel like we aren't actually playing the game. To me the point is to figure out who is scum not ask each person straight up, "Are you scum?" and then lynch anyone that doesn't have a PR. I have told creature that I simply am not having fun here and would like to be replaced out. I do hope to get into a more involved game outside the newbie thread so I hope to see y'all there. I apologize for the drama.

[mlmooney89]

Guys I've asked to be replaced. I'm not playing anymore.

[mlmooney89]

Eh just different play styles is all. I'm sure we will play together in bigger games. I hope y'all have fun and catch that scum!