Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]

[MathBlade]

Skull only answers questions via PM PeregrineV.

[MathBlade]

there isn't anything you can't reveal now if you claim to have the scumteam on lock. if it would really win the game for us.

We do not have a single scum flip to build on. NOTHING. They COULD have a Framer, but that would require them guessing who Narna would check beforehand. Otherwise they may have a redirector, and that doesn't needs knowledge of the target beforehand, but needs Narna NOT to be checking on scum (in which case the probabilities are on their side because the Town has a majority still, even assuming Narna never outs his reads and picks randomly).

Redirector with Narna town impossible again.

Narna says she gets the names of who she visited.

Please stop. It is embarrassing to you.

[MathBlade]

Narna says he*

Sorry

[MathBlade]

The fact of the matter remains if I was scum I would not push inconsistencies. I would get a townie lynched. Why would scum remove someone who is obviously playing to their win Con? You need to explain why I pushed Maxous for multiple days straight as scum. Hell Maxous if telling the truth for all intents and purposes is another scum member because of his play.

No. instead you push me and make up things because you know you need me dead.

Because you thought you had him (thinking he was Town, because he is NOT on your team). When you discovered he was NOT Town you tried to stear away from him, but it's too late now, so you are coming around to the idea of lynching him.

....No. That is ridiculous. As I explained already. You are bringing up bad arguments again. Go to sleep. Read a book. Do something else and come back later.

[MathBlade]

Town when I replaced in was a bunch of apathetic sad don't give two shits group.

Now everyone is playing.

As scum I manipulate and enhance weakness. Please explain to me how getting people to care and fixing the night action issues is a enhancing/exploiting a weakness?

Your slot was already in deep deep trouble, so you had to act to town it up.

...No it wasn't. And if it was I would have said "Hey teammates bus me for the creds"

I am an expert busser and bussee.

[MathBlade]

The problem is NOT whether to motivate the players. The question is: Are you leading them in the right direction??

My answer is NO, absolutely NOT. You put me, Chara and PV in your scum reads, and that is absolutely nonsense.

Yes I am. If you think that is wrong explain why. You and Yoshi are definitely scum. Pine is likely scum since he can't be bothered to post here.

I have built a town block of Awesome. Deal.

[MathBlade]

....No. That is ridiculous. As I explained already. You are bringing up bad arguments again. Go to sleep. Read a book. Do something else and come back later.

one thing throwing me off right now, Math. this isn't how i'd talk to a solid scumread of mine.

It absolutely is for me.
Almost50 is content on spamming. As town he would listen to his townreads. But since he isn't the only way to get him to stop spamming is to get him to go away so we have a productive thread.

[MathBlade]

1) Town doesn't make up mechanics.
2) Town doesn't then ignore their town reads as they tell them they are derping and what they say is impossible.
3) You just say you are town but are floating impossible scenarios.

Just stawp.

[MathBlade]

Oh I have suspected SirCakez. Suspecting everyone in a bastard game is normal when mechanics don't line up. I don't doubt that I did at some points.

Secondly as scum I would not be so brazen. You yourself use Gistou as an argument. I tunneled Titus D1 (incorrectly as she would be one of the few who would catch me) then hunted other scum while pitching a win Con solution that benefitted me. I built a massive 30+ player read wall in that game and hardly ever lied I just hunted the other scums.

I had to push everywhere to find the liar in the mechanics. I don't regret it and I would do it again.

You aren't confirmed town. I can claim confirmed town too. The difference is there is no way scum me pushes Maxous. Scum have this hideous tool called lying.

[MathBlade]

So I scumread you. That doesn't make me scum.

[MathBlade]

Math's reads, some of them, are wrong, but everything they've said mechanically is sound. and.. to be fair, i haven't seen you concede your theory except to say that you did to Math just now.

of course, from your pov, math is wrong on your alignment. that's mafia. it's not grounds to dismiss their other logic, and certainly isn't a point against anything.

You are creeping me out how much we are thinking alike right now.

[MathBlade]

And which reads do you think I am right and wrong on?

[MathBlade]

This is ridiculous.

A50, you have to have Narna as confirmed scum in your eyes. Because yes, that

is

the only conclusion if you're going to take this path of reasoning.

Unless you seriously think when Narna asked what their result targeting a miller would be, Skullduggery decided to answer Narna's question

using a different variation of miller than the one used in this game

.

Some would argue that would be very misleading. Thinking the miller is the reason I got a guilty would violate the same rule that "prevents" the sanity theory. The mod told me a miller wouldn't fuck with me. Stop making me repeat this.

What was the exact question you asked so we can put this to bed?

[MathBlade]

That is correct for the wiki version of Miller. However Shiro's version of Miller he explicitly said guilty on all investigations.

[MathBlade]

But I will PM this to Skull.

[MathBlade]

So three options exist in order of likelihood:

1) Town derp -- What I believe
2) A Framer
3) Narna is scum and therefore Gio is as well.

[MathBlade]

Seriously with all the cops in this game Miller would have to operate differently than the wiki else it is almost useless.

[MathBlade]

So hence Narna is town derp for checking a claimed miller. No way scum buddies let Narna do that or claim to.

Which brings us to the Gio/Nahdia/Creeps/Narna town block. I am making an assumption here Gio isn't a liar here but I think with all the pressure he had that is okay.

[MathBlade]

Would a miller return as is/was capable of killing even if they could not kill.

Nope nope nope they wouldn't

'a miller'. we're not talking about the wiki's miller, we're talking about the miller in this bastard game. was Skull answering for the generic 'miller' or for a universal miller? or did you specifically ask about Shiro's flipped miller role?

pedit: that.

Skull is linking kids the wiki page when they inquire about the miller, but it's not the miller from the wiki? How is that not intentionally misleading?

The wiki says that there can be specialized millers for roles that aren't gs or cop. The flip does not indicate anything of the sort.

Because it answers exactly what you asked assuming Skull gives me the same answer.

[MathBlade]

Seriously with all the cops in this game Miller would have to operate differently than the wiki else it is almost useless.

Tell me our vanilla cop was anything but useless as well. The miller role would still more than likely force the miller to claim. It's more impactful than the vanilla cop in that regard.

It probably was unless someone here is VT. Maybe Titus gets her token 1 VT thing she spouts odd but I don't believe is required.

[MathBlade]

@mathblade

- did you kill Titus?

Considering I wasn't in the game yet no I did not kill titus and neither did Creature. I can't kill.

[MathBlade]

Lol and Peregrine V invents time travel

[MathBlade]

Like I am in the middle of a laughing and coughing fit right now.

I do not and never have I employed time travel in a game.

[MathBlade]

Whatever, I'm over it.

We will see.

Did you kill zakk math?

Again just said can't kill.

[MathBlade]

@mathblade

- did you kill Titus?

Considering I wasn't in the game yet no I did not kill titus and neither did Creature. I can't kill.

Lol and Peregrine V invents time travel

you know what I mean. Your slot.

want to lynch Not Chara and probably Maxous.

Maxous is getting rope today just letting people get caught up.

[MathBlade]

And I've played at least 3 time travel games I can recall right away.

Okay I can't breathe you gotta stop PV. This hurts so much.

I did not kill anyone on any night. I am a tank.

[MathBlade]

.... ....

Assume I am scum Ank.
Who am I scum with?
There is no possible scum partners for me. Therefore I HAVE to be town.

[MathBlade]

Titus' role is designed to work with mine.

Explain how a vanilla cop would work with yours. She would just get Not Vanilla.

[MathBlade]

Titus' role is designed to work with mine.

Explain how a vanilla cop would work with yours. She would just get Not Vanilla.

[MathBlade]

Titus' role is designed to work with mine.

Titus was vanilla cop. You are claimed not vanilla. Ergo how do you get what you posted?

[MathBlade]

...but you aren't vanilla so she would get Not vanilla.

[MathBlade]

I do because it gives us a shit ton of town. Redeems us this epic clusterfuck.

In Role madness games you have to analyze the setup.

If you aren't breaking the setup you should be damn scared this is close to LyLO. So you should be trying to identify a team. So I ask again: assume I am scum who would be my buddies?

[MathBlade]

...but you aren't vanilla so she would get Not vanilla.

MY ROLE DEPENDS ON WHICH STATE I AM IN.

Your role is all states together.

Your abilities are based on which state you are in.

It is called a role PM for a reason.

You can say you would check as VT with Miller and Hated checks but you are not and never have been VT.

[MathBlade]

Which again doesn't make sense because always having a miller claim up means you would not check as VT.

[MathBlade]

...what you say is literally impossible.

All players get one role at the start of a game.

A role can have multiple abilities and change and gain and lose abilities but multiple roles is impossible.

Yes your role changes. I am not arguing that. I am not saying you couldn't be powerless at the start of the game.

What I am saying is that it is almost certain that Titus would not get a VT return on you.

[MathBlade]

A vanilla townie doesn't have states. It doesn't have the ability to shoot.

It is just that. Vanilla.

[MathBlade]

Now I am long overdue for my nap.

People needs to get in here and catch up.

And Ank needs to answer my question about buddies. He avoided it AGAIN

[MathBlade]

Day 5, Vote Count #2

Current Vote Count:

(0)

SirCakez

(0)

Giovanni il Pellegrino

(5)

Maxous -- Nahdia, Accountant, Creeps20, Not Chara, Narna

(0)

MathBlade

(0)

PeregrineV

(0)

Nahdia

(0)

Accountant

(1)

Not Chara -- PeregrineV

(0)

Ankamius

(0)

BigYoshiFan

(0)

Narna

(1)

Almost50 -- BigYoshiFan

(0)

Pine

(0)

Creeps20

Not Voting:

SirCakez, Giovanni il Pellegrino, Maxous, Ankamius, Almost50, Pine, MathBlade

With 14 votes available, it takes 8 votes to hammer.

Giovanni il Pellegrino is V/LA until 12/8.

Day 5 Will End on Tuesday, December 20th, at 8 a.m. Eastern Time
Countdown: (expired on 2016-12-20 08:00:00)

Only person not caught up is Pine. Intent to hammer when Pine is caught up and/or is prodded.

[MathBlade]

....I am bulletproof.

The entire case is "something" after I stop a mislynch single handedly.

Never have I ever felt like the superhero who saves the city but people complain about the blades of grass being on fire.

This is ridiculous.

[MathBlade]

Almost50 and Yoshi are scum together testing the waters for my mislynch because they can't fucking kill me.

If any of you have an actual case other than that "something" being that you have a scum role PM let's fucking hear it.

Assume I am scum. Find my buddies. Because I am damn sure you won't be able to find any. So sit down shut up admit that as scum you fucked up and have a bulletproof innocent child running around who will lynch each and every single one of you to a pulp.

And if I get my way I will start with Yoshi. Making him eat the fact he still hasn't given reasons for reads despite the fact I have asked numerous times. I will take your bullshit "something" til you choke on that something and get lynched and come back to life and then lynch you again with your words hanging out of your mouth with a whimper about how you tried to mislynch me. How do I know I will?

Because I did it with Maxous and brought everyone kicking and screaming. And if I have to I will do it again. And keep lynching scum until you players realize that for once Math can actually be good.

Now you can take your "something" and make a case or I will use your piles of bullshit to find your buddies and demonstrate that Pine and Almost50 are scum as well. This town is not and will not be doing goddamn apathy lynches while I am alive. People will care and if I get lynched it will be because people had no regrets about it.

Your "something" is just an attempt to get others to do your dirty work.

Now I will start by giving you what IS an actual goddamn case.

[MathBlade]

It was probably maxous

Those roles you gave me, do those include modifiers or did none of them include one. If not, I would suggest they claim whether they are full or modified roles now.

Role fishing without having caught up on the thread.

Oh my god can we just discuss on who is more likely the liar here?

Yet you never come back to this. Oh that is right because Maxous was your little play thing.

Yoshi, why haven't you done jackcrap?

Uhmmmm, I'd like to disagree but go on.

Narna townflip clears Shiro as scum and massive as town.

But we lose a psychologist. Who knows what Shiro's investigative role is (if they have one). Did they ever say?

Here is the starts of actual thought but instead you seed discourse. You plant the idea that Shiro and Narna have to be opposite alignments. And bonus scum points for rolefishing Shiro.

Narna townflip clears Shiro as scum and massive as town.

But we lose a psychologist. Who knows what Shiro's investigative role is (if they have one). Did they ever say?

Yoshi, why haven't you done jackcrap?

Uhmmmm, I'd like to disagree but go on.

Guess what? Titus was right. You haven't done jack crap and haven't probably even thought about an original thought. Nooo that would derail the rather obvious townbickering between Narna and Shiro and how defeated Shiro was. Man if I was in this game at that point omfg.

It was probably maxous

Here you seemed to already know who the liar was. You completely just said it was Maxous. No case no reasons. If you seriously believed this why the hell did you not do anything when Maxous repeatedly stated he blocked me? My guess is you didn't want to lose your little puppy dog just yet.

[MathBlade]

Phone posting so I had to break it apart.

[MathBlade]

Nahdia continues to not vote Narna.
Giovanni continues to not vote Narna.

Remember this when Pine tries to explain how they are town because they won't sheep a town player who clearly derped by checking a goddamn miller in the first place.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler:

are you really feeling the effects of this game when you replaced Snarky? are you just jumping on the apathy bandwagon?

Not Chara said it even better than I could.

Spoiler:

are you really feeling the effects of this game when you replaced Snarky? are you just jumping on the apathy bandwagon?

Spoiler:

are you really feeling the effects of this game when you replaced Snarky? are you just jumping on the apathy bandwagon?

I just thought it would be funny.
But kinda feeling the effects, I'm torn on Narna.
I think the bus driver is a plausible theory, and my gut tells me Narna is town.

Look at Yoshi drumming up apathy so he doesn't have to post reasons for what he thinks or show damn thought.

[MathBlade]

Where is Maxous at on votes?

Oh is poor little Yoshi scared of a MathBlade case on him? Scared of my oh yeah "something"?

Well my something brings all the town to the yard.

[MathBlade]

And their like "Math's case is better than yours"

[MathBlade]

why have we still not lynched maxous

Waiting on Pine to get his butt in here so he can scum claim.

Technically if we hammer before that 48 hour mark he won't have a prod even though he has been posting elsewhere.

[MathBlade]

And their like "Math's case is better than yours"

They're* ugh bad grammar sorry

[MathBlade]

the result i got is a result, but it seems my results don't differentiate between being roleblocked, and simply nothing happening that night.

Let me try to make this even clearer: Assuming you were a Tracker (which is probably not true, but is a hypothetical assumption to get the point through) you'd get "You saw NOTHING" whether

our

target had no night action or you were locked, so you cannot differentiate between the two. Am I correctly understanding this?

I hope you mean "your".

Oh you mean how you would "edit" how the three of you are together?

[MathBlade]

Your cases are full of loaded words, your posts full of LAMIST phrases, your attitude full of arrogance. I don't need a case on you right now.

P-edit: Was about to edit that for you, now I lose that pleasure.

You mean evidence, of fucking course I am town, and yeah I am arrogant I just took down a 3P pet of scum while scum tried to suggest Narna at every turn and likely got us a shit ton of conf town.

Excuse me for being arrogant. Because damn it I am. And I will not let you try to mislynch me over "something".

If my TOWNREADS agree we can lynch Maxous without waiting for an inevitable Pine prod.

[MathBlade]

Not when the motivation is clearly "Ob we can't kill them. Guess we have to lynch them" something.

[MathBlade]

Well, he's been quite active so I thought he would know. Also, I just wanted to see if he'd be polite enough to answer.

I am but you are just demonstrating how you don't read or do anything.

My unofficial vote count has Maxous at 6. 5 from last VC. I voted unovted and Almost50 voted twice for emphasis but it only counts once.

[MathBlade]

the result i got is a result, but it seems my results don't differentiate between being roleblocked, and simply nothing happening that night.

Let me try to make this even clearer: Assuming you were a Tracker (which is probably not true, but is a hypothetical assumption to get the point through) you'd get "You saw NOTHING" whether

our

target had no night action or you were locked, so you cannot differentiate between the two. Am I correctly understanding this?

I hope you mean "your".

That typo is NAI. Noticed it but didn't want to clutter things.

My Yoshi case is not noise. Prepare for a scum funeral tomorrow.

Oh you mean how you would "edit" how the three of you are together?

Funny thing you both noted the Y was missing from "Your" but overlooked the B missing in "Blocked", but keep up the good work. I'm just enjoying all this noise.

[MathBlade]

*glares at MS* Stop messing with my quotes damn it.

[MathBlade]

Can you three have a little rest for 15 minutes? I don't see much productivity right now from this conflict. So recollect your thoughts and prepare a bit more. I don't want scum to win this *fight* and so please take a brake for a little while. All I see is a clogged up thread

Sure.

[MathBlade]

Max ascetic (which we will know when he flips) under constant pressure of multiple players questioning his actions and reads he stuck by them. When the original mechanics didn't support it he still stood by it. I don't see scum sticking by such a claim after being hounded about it that much. Gio is town because of Max being ascetic (again assuming truth)

If Gio telling truth Narna is innocent. If Narna is innocent Nahdia and Creeps can't kill (granted they may be Maxous like and 3P and not kill) but then they certainly aren't group scum. I do not believe for a moment that only one scum on the entire team can kill. This is where the town block comes from. Scum would have 0 reason to frame Narna on any night because they were trying to mislynch Narna.

The explanation for the guilty is a simple one: Town Derp.

Oh and Narna mod got back to me said he couldn't answer the question as worded probably because it would confirm you as Town even though it should be pretty plain.

[MathBlade]

Ok, what the fuck? I come to post and I find myself in front of the Apocalypse.


I understand that I am scumread and rightly so, so reading the last few pages before the Leonshade shenanigan, I will try to defend myself.

If I was scum that had replaced into the generally townread House slot, I wouldn't have a reason to even go near the McMenno wagon or post polarizing theories regarding flips. Instead, I would had voted Narna like all the cool kids did at the time and generally I would not stick out as much I did.

In games I usually have a low post count with a high word count per post (I like textwalling). If I was scum, I would actually textwall based on theories my mafia buddies would help me to develop during the night I replaced in. I know that Creature (and possibly SirCakez) know how I play and I would do anything possible to play as similarly as I did in the previous games.

Also, regarding Creature:

Maxous, Giovanni and Almost50 are my top preferences.

This is the second time Creature says he wants to lynch Maxous and I. My objection here is that I am a weak role who targeted Maxous at night, so, barring shenanigans, I should have been dead if he was scum.

PEDIT

VOTE: Maxous

Disingenuous my ass.

Interesting.

VOTE: LeonShade

This here. He claimed he targeted an ascetic and weak LONG before it became a thing.
This would mean that a scum team of Gio AND Narna would have had to plan a long elaborate ruse. Keep in mind this ruse would have had to been concocted immediately after Narna's being governed. Gio is town.

[MathBlade]

Does "Town Derp" imply that Narna actually received an innocent and just thought it was a guilty?
Narna received a guilty, that has to be clear by now.

P-edit: Narna can't be insane, that goes against Skull's last rule. Right?

No I am confident Narna received the guilty.
I am also confident in that Narna asked a question she thought would make her check against a miller get accurate results.

The derp here is two fold.
One) Don't ever target millers as cops.
Two) Skullduggery inherited my sister's penchant for lawyer/wordsmithing. Narna more than likely got screwed by that and Skullduggery likely answered the exact question asked.

Therefore Narna acted like he had a guilty when he didn't because he believed it.

[MathBlade]

And right Narna can't be secretly insane goes against the mod won't mislead you and your role functions as you think it does on page one.

[MathBlade]

....

Like I can't even. Again as scum I would lynch Narna. It was setup there and easy.

Secondly yes you derped. I know you might not want to admit it but you did.

The entire theory I am scum is shit posting with no evidence.

I now see why we have had mislynches on everyday with such brilliance as this. (Brilliance is sarcastic)

[MathBlade]

Because as scum with however many people left when scum only need X (and X is unknown but small) you really think I would go through the effort of dragging everyone behind me to Maxous getting that lynch AND demonstrating how it likely confirms four scum in the process.

Oh right because "something".

So tomorrow looks like a day of dragging everyone to Yoshi while stopping my mislynch tomorrow. Fucking brilliant people. I can't even.

[MathBlade]

Here he goes again, trying to discredit people who aren't heralding him as a town leader.

.....

I have been discrediting derp all day.

I deliver scum or 3P to your floor and wipe it.

I give you four likely conf townies and now your case is attack anyone who discredits me.

I don't scumread Narna FYI. I just think that they can't admit they made a mistake.

Scumreading me for "something" is derp. If you think I am scum make a case. Explain it. Fight for it.

Bah bah black sheep have you any wool: yes sir yes sir three posts full isn't explaining.

[MathBlade]

The point is he mentioned it before any conflicted night actions. He can't be defending Maxous because no conflicts happened yet.

But if Maxous is not ascetic yes that is true but after Gio saying Maxous is multiple times I do not believe that will happen.

@Narna The Shiro lynch is done. It is spilled milk. I believe you derped you believe framer. Fine. At the end of the day you're still Town. (barring insanities like Godfather to all cops which based on your play I doubt) The town block still exists.

[MathBlade]

Godfather to all actions*

[MathBlade]

My anger is at people who do nothing but say "gut".

"Gut" is a tool. But ask questions. Get answers. A post pings you fine. Say what does and ask a question.

Occam's Razor people. While what I seem to say is complex it is only because scum bog it down.

[MathBlade]

The simple answer is scum don't give you four conf town. They don't.

[MathBlade]

That is all scum need. I need the remaining proper lynches.

That because is not a because at all. It is Math is scum because scum need X more mislynches.

And again oddly specific. You be scum.

[MathBlade]

No. I didn't. I made a case. Out of my ass doesn't have a case.

Let's assume 5 scum like you said and 1 3P for Maxous.

With 14 alive that means 7 other town (myself included)

One of which will likely die tonight unless Nahdia gets really good with her Jailkeep.

So 7 Town alive 5 scum. Shit that is LyLO fml. Which means we can't afford a mislynch on me so y'all see how pitiful this sheeping is.

[MathBlade]

Myself included meaning 7 other towns* that may not be clear in the above.

[MathBlade]

Yes. That is my belief. I believe you derped; you believe framer. The mod said they cannot answer the question you posted as worded so yes I believe that you are misreading something. Skullduggery based on my limited interaction with him seems like a rules guy. And very strict. Whatever question you asked likely left you with that impression if you asked a leading question about a miller versus the miller in this game.

[MathBlade]

have u guys just considered rewording the qn and asking skul again

I have asked the questions I think three or four times to Skull. I am pretty damn sure he is annoyed of me asking.

[MathBlade]

If you have some genius way please let me know. I would love it if you did.

[MathBlade]

The point is he mentioned it before any conflicted night actions. He can't be defending Maxous because no conflicts happened yet.

But if Maxous is not ascetic yes that is true but after Gio saying Maxous is multiple times I do not believe that will happen.

@Narna The Shiro lynch is done. It is spilled milk. I believe you derped you believe framer. Fine. At the end of the day you're still Town. (barring insanities like Godfather to all cops which based on your play I doubt) The town block still exists.

A preemptive defense, then. There doesn't have to be a conflict for him to back up a buddy.

Also Skull is a she <.<

Sorry Skullduggery!
...
How would Gio know Maxous is a buddy when he claimed?

[MathBlade]

@Yoshi Move your vote back on Maxous *sigh*

I have well thought out reasons as to why you are scum. Maxous said the same thing that my analysis was too confusing. You just want me dead.

And I made it more than 5 seconds.

[MathBlade]

That second question I won't get an answer to because I don't have your role PM. I am very much serious. Given Skull she probably said something like "Millers in general give guilties on blah blah blah or look at the wiki". She cannot confirm to you what you would get in advance.

[MathBlade]

So that is one town vote for end the day. Do we have any others? I really want Pine to get a prod or replaced before daybreak so everyone can see the scumminess.

[MathBlade]

Why is this not simple?

I said wait on Pine. Displayed town block for the millionth time.

Then all the scums said they scumread me. I got pissed.

Now there are a few genuine questions but most of it is scum can't kill me.

[MathBlade]

All is a sarcastic quip.

[MathBlade]

7511
7516

You will find other reasons sprinkled in my ISO.

Now I am honoring my townread's request and not arguing with you merely pointing to what I have said before. Now I suggest you do the same so Pine can post and see what he needs to respond to. But boy is it hard not to continue to rip you a new one.

[MathBlade]

Christ almighty.

Because he

claimed non-town.

And because

the town win condition states we need to eliminate all non-town.

It doesn't say "threats to town". It doesn't say "all non-town except Maxous because lol idk". It says

ALL FUCKING NON-TOWN

.

Why is he scum?

Setup spec doesn't mean jack shit, so that's not a reason.

Setup spec is what caused me to catch him. Look you may hate me.

Despise me.

Think I am the worst player at mafia. Fine.

I can take the insults. Hell I will take whatever abuse you want. Tomorrow. There is no way confirmed scum/anti-town 3P escapes because I let scum push my goddamn buttons to far.

[MathBlade]

The mod just killed the insane Narna theory. Shiro was either framed or came into some killing power they weren't told about.

Math, of course I asked my more specific question today after the flip. There is no reason the mod can't tell me how my role interacts with a dead miller that I investigated. You're townreading me, and town has no reason to fabricate this.

Fine framer or someone is a gunsmith or something. It is fundamentally irrelevant today.

[MathBlade]

Yeah, like Narna being scum because his result was impossible. That turned out great, didn't it.

HE CLAIMED NOT WORKING WITH TOWN.

[MathBlade]

I have nothing against you personally, I just hate the playstyle of scumhunting by setup spec because not only is it impossible for me to read, but I've seen either scum manipulate the 'information' to force fake 'solved' gamestates to lose town the game or town just fucking it up badly enough to just lose themselves the game by clearing scum that aren't actually cleared.

That is only part of how I hunt. I take in ALL information. Tone speech word choice. All of it. However I struggle in real life sometimes to find that sarcastic edge and that "readability" found in most people. Looking at the mechanics gives a jumping point. Everyone here was primed to very likely mislynches a Narna on bad setup spec. You can say you hate it but when every game uses it you can't say it is bad to use it.

I also posted gut reads at the start and go very flow of consciousness as either alignment. I also rarely lie as either alignment. Look at my points on Yoshi scum. None of it is setup spec. Get a read on that. Ask questions on that.

However don't you dare say you can't read me because I use setup spec or VCA. I suck at reading people but I play mafia to get better at it. It isn't up to people to change their playstyle so you can read them. It is up to you to ask questions and notice individual unique patterns until you can.

So what questions do you have for me?

[MathBlade]

I asked many many times over to see where any flaws were. So far Narna's bit seems to be the only one. (TBH I am working under it trusting him but it still doesn't feel right) if you have any flaws with my logic share it. SirCakez is expressing doubt but I haven't seen a flaw yet. So do you see any flaws Ank? Any reason to not trust it?

[MathBlade]

You do realize that the fact that Narna wasn't lynched early in the game is the reason we're in this shitfest right now, right?

You mean how we didn't mislynch likely town. You're fucking welcome.

[MathBlade]

Leonshade was town anger over not being able to lynch Narna. Shiro after that as Narna said is frame or derp.

Part of this is setup spec. Part of it is analyzing the people and Narna was giving many Town tells of being railroaded.

Town didn't do that and we had mislynches together.

[MathBlade]

Going with frame Narna before you post again otherwise.

[MathBlade]

I'm going to trust my gut over your analysis, thanks.

...................................................................................

thats not how any of this works

I agree.

Can you pweeeease be a secret double voter so I has hammers?

[MathBlade]

That last line is a joke.

[MathBlade]

I don't have to have played with anyone before to know that Not lynching claimed scum is a horrible play.

[MathBlade]

/care

Make sure you kill me tonight so that my kill can't ever inconvenience you or your team.

My team is me, myself, and I.

....How exactly would the Maxous lynch be a trap? He claimed non Town. Non town gets lynched.

How would my logic about Narna be wrong?

Gio would have to be scum who is lying about a Narna check yet you don't suspect him.

You don't have to have influence. I didn't have any when I replaced in but I presented a case.

Present something other than feelings.

[MathBlade]

If ever, at any time, I end up flipping, Narna and Nahdia are confscum.

I don't expect that will happen unless a hammer gets stolen out from under me, in which case that person should be flipped third after those two.

Because you do. Per your own words if you flip Nahdia and Narna are conf scum. That only happens through role interactions. Otherwise it is a read.

I don't believe you.

[MathBlade]

I'll believe there's a bus driver when I see it.

I'm unimpressed with all the innocent results going around. I'm almost certain one is a lie.

Narna is very likely scum.
Nahdia is very likely scum.
Almost50 is very likely scum.
Maxous is likely scum.
Massive is likely scum.
Giovanni is likely scum.
Not Chara is likely scum.

That leaves (Sircakez, Creature, PeregrineV, Firebinger, BigYoshiFan, Andrius) as my townlist for right now.

Here is another one where you do it. This was before I replaced in. You seriously can't have only started this now?

[MathBlade]

You are using concrete information to form your reads.

Here is another Maxous claimed scum/3P.

So that is not anything manipulatable. He said it. Nothing can fuck with it.

[MathBlade]

I am not. You said you didn't believe the innocents. That is acting on concrete information. That is choosing to ignore it. Disregarding something is an active choice. An action.

You are therefore acting on it. Once information exists it is in our subconscious and in our minds. That is part of the reason I knew Maxous is an uphill battle and still is.

[MathBlade]

The difference is that with a person who says they are guilty in a non RVS non joke manner you lynch them.

[MathBlade]

Again. Psychology says that once you take in information you have altered it and yourself. It is the reason for the controls. That is my point. You made an active willing choice to disregard information. Ergo acting on it.

Vote Maxous.

[MathBlade]

Drat Titus making me take intro psych in college. Never thought I would ever use it in mafia.

[MathBlade]

Going to bed since apparently you don't even consider science any more or any rudimentary logic anything further is spam.

[MathBlade]

I gotta sleep Accountant. Will do my best and check in the AM.

[MathBlade]

Four more hours til we can lynch Maxous.

We got this.

[MathBlade]

Four more hours til we can lynch Maxous.

We got this.

We have 11 days left to deadline.....?

The only reason to wait at this point is for a Pine prod because Maxous claimed not Town.

[MathBlade]

The way Mathblade has been posting in the thread the last 10 or so pages fits a scum-trying-to-force-a-town-leader role a lot more than anything else.

lol I force Town leader when Town is getting ready to mislynch a townread of mine and there is conf scum found.

I did it and would do it again.

I have work but will keep checking back.

[MathBlade]

And better yet:

How is this not replacing my arrogance with his when Ank doesn't have reasons or make a case?

[MathBlade]

The difference is I am opening myself up to being wrong.

[MathBlade]

I am not Titus nor am I wisdom.

If you want to use meta use mine.

There are also Town games where Town players took leadership and saved it.

[MathBlade]

why does it feel like everyone posting just ignores the conversations that don't directly involve them?

Because that requires hunting.

Scum want me gone.

They can't kill me.

[MathBlade]

It is the truth.

Regarding Yoshi Not while I am at work. My notes are at home.

[MathBlade]

Buddying scum or PoE at the end is wrong somewhere.

[MathBlade]

That doesn't mean the latter of solving setup doesn't catch scum.

[MathBlade]

Pine is officially in prod range. No reason to drag this out. Let's lynch maxous.

7716 the question is flawed. Ascetic mean Maxous can't be blocked. Ascetic means all actions but killing fail on him.

[MathBlade]

At doctor's office will read thread overnight. Since Ank doesn't use logic don't trust him with hammers.

VOTE: Maxous

[MathBlade]

The best argument is that people shouldn't have apathy in a bastard game.

[MathBlade]

Just got in.

FYI for people with checks I got added to the neighborhood that seems to have existed for a long while now.
I also received a one shot item that doesn't kill people.

Missing roleblocks are solved if Gio was telling the truth and Maxous was telling the truth to try to live.
Narna stuff is I have reason to believe there is an inventor. Probably gave Shiro a gun OR Narna was framed. Based on my results last night Town derp is still likely but I think the Gio narna Nahdia Creeps block holds for now.

[MathBlade]

That is a good question. I will need to reread my Shiro notes after dinner.However I still believe there is an inventor in the game.

[MathBlade]

Either way, old townreads are likely now invalid.

I find this inaccurate. I think if anything Maxous probably left us a trolling present. He was consistently lying throughout the game and there was no Maxous flip yet best I can tell.

I think because we lynched him Maxous probably just used a time delay on the night phase and threw up some Wingdings.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Not Chara

Explain please.

@Nahdia -- It isn't a moderator lie. I am saying it would be what Maxous would have asked Skull to post. It is a theory. The other faction existing is a theory. Both of which need exploration.

[MathBlade]

And you didn't even try to explain the extended night phase. Are you gonna suggest Maxous also had an ability to extend the night phase by a day for no reason whatsoever, which he can use after death?

I did. Maxous per the flip controls space and time.Time after lynch end being a possibility just to give scum time to talk. However another faction is a possibility as well.

[MathBlade]

I am not refuting your theory. I am merely stating that another faction doesn't have to exist. It isn't proven to.

[MathBlade]

There is a theory that specifically states that timeand space are outside of death. The video covers it in detail that is on Maxous's flip. So yes I think Maxous could have trolled on death. It is equally valid to me as another faction and I want to see how people respond after I eat dinner.

[MathBlade]

Tell me what fucking mod gives a role the following ability:

"If you are lynched, the night phase is delayed by a day. Then you will troll the town into thinking you formed a new faction. Then the next night phase will be extended by a day."

BECAUSE THAT'S LITERALLY WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING...

One in a bastard game. I could say the same about the Wingdings or a 10000 year deadline too. What mod has a day of 10000 years. I could yell and scream it but those things happened.

[MathBlade]

I am not refuting your theory. I am merely stating that another faction doesn't have to exist. It isn't proven to.

I find this inaccurate.

That is both correct. You were posting as if absolutely another faction was created. That is inaccurate when multiple possibilities exist.

[MathBlade]

...I am eating dinner before it gets cold.

[MathBlade]

TBH if there was a culting Math makes sense as a target for it with their thread presence and generally being townread

...First of all

1) I was not universally townread. Scum and one person I townread who I didn't before (Ank) were trying to mislynch me.

2) Even if I was universally townread -- Scum would be planning to use me as a mislynch anyway for the very thing you are suggesting.

Pretty much I know I am lynchbait because of the cult suggestion so I am trying to get out what reads I do have.

[MathBlade]

there's probably some logical error in my last post. i'll look at it later.

i agree with Accountant. not that we have proof one was created, i just don't think Math's 'Maxous was trolling' theory holds water. there's no reason for him to have done it.

Now that is a good point.

No cultist creator (assuming one exists) would aim at me though. That is like all kinds of terribad because of the gamestate. The point of a cult is to be hidden. So cult the megaphone makes no sense.

So we need to find the scum pre cult if you believe one exists. Flip them. They should be either cult or scum.

[MathBlade]

TBH if there was a culting Math makes sense as a target for it with their thread presence and generally being townread

...First of all

1) I was not universally townread. Scum and one person I townread who I didn't before (Ank) were trying to mislynch me.

2) Even if I was universally townread -- Scum would be planning to use me as a mislynch anyway for the very thing you are suggesting.

Pretty much I know I am lynchbait because of the cult suggestion so I am trying to get out what reads I do have.

Mostly town read, then
Your point 2 is super WIFOM

Pine stop trying to dodge playing the game

Technically yes it is wifom. However it is common sense. Most people here know my meta and I get loud and boisterous and such. Almost everyone here I have played a game in and know how I react to things. You know this too.

I think instead we work off our old town reads and here is why:

1) If there is an alignment change I would think it would be Town to cult or scum to cult.
2) If we lynch in the latter then it is surely antitown.
3) If we lynch in the former we are cult hunting.

[MathBlade]

Not Chara scummed up disgustingly hard just on this page alone. Holy shit.

I agree with you Ank. I was concerned about Not Chara buddying yesterday as well.

[MathBlade]

Not Chara scummed up disgustingly hard just on this page alone. Holy shit.

My kneejerk is to agree, but I don't see what objective is served by an of what they've done.

Although this is scary that Pine is producing content right now and it is to agree with you. So Pine+Not Chara probably scum.

[MathBlade]

i doubt Maxous decided to try and trick us in death. so far, the Gaster messages have just been related to the Gaster ability activated, and i wouldn't think this latest one would be an exception.

one: Maxous would have been aware if his death created a faction he would win with. i didn't get the sense he was.

um

VOTE: Not Chara

[MathBlade]

Not Chara scummed up disgustingly hard just on this page alone. Holy shit.

I agree with you Ank. I was concerned about Not Chara buddying yesterday as well.

who am i buddying today?

...I agreed with Ank about what he said and you were pinging yesterday as well for buddying. So buddying as well.

[MathBlade]

If anyone cares my lynch pool today is Not Chara, BigYoshiFan/Pine, Pine/BigYoshiFan, and Almost50 in that order.

[MathBlade]

ok I see where you're coming from wrt maxous and the messages (ie. you think that the wingdings messages are announcements created by the mod that gaster has used an ability)

Explain it to me because I don't get it.

[MathBlade]

ummmmmmmmmmm

you dont' think that

gaster

was writing the

gaster

messages?

no

. i don't think Maxous sent Skullduggery messages to be translated to wingdings. it's true that canon Gaster speaks with all capitals, and this one doesn't, but now i think that's just how Skullduggery has chosen to do it. plus, i doubt Maxous has been telling us to stay determined every day.

hahahaha you know what

UNVOTE:

I can't believe that scum chara says this stuff in response to me calling her out

i'm not a girl.

I think that is from the video attached to Maxous's lynch. It is a big long video about how these different games intersect but it involves time travel and such. I think something definitely weird is going on and I don't know how to explain it.

[MathBlade]

i doubt Maxous decided to try and trick us in death. so far, the Gaster messages have just been related to the Gaster ability activated, and i wouldn't think this latest one would be an exception.

one: Maxous would have been aware if his death created a faction he would win with. i didn't get the sense he was.

um

The original problem isn't that he did or didn't write the messages. IMHO it is these two posts together.

If Maxous was aware his lynch would create a cult he could win with then why did he try to hard not to be lynched? And if he didn't then how did the new faction spawn?

And if Not Chara didn't get the impression that Maxous was aware of a new faction then how could the message be related to an ability he triggered without triggering it?

These two things in tandem I don't get.

[MathBlade]

And if he didn't then how did the new faction spawn?

where did this question come from? i never said it was a sure fact that a new faction was created, and

you

appear to believe there are other things that could have happened that don't include a new faction.

That is what you said though. If it is not Maxous trolling it is a new faction. By your own posts you said not Gaster so by logical endpoint new faction in your POV.

[MathBlade]

And if he didn't then how did the new faction spawn?

where did this question come from? i never said it was a sure fact that a new faction was created, and

you

appear to believe there are other things that could have happened that don't include a new faction.

That is why those two posts confuse me so. It can't be both an ability and not one. Either there is or is not a new faction.

[MathBlade]

That is why those two posts confuse me so. It can't be both an ability and not one. Either there is or is not a new faction.

there's literally no doubt it was a Gaster ability. just because it was a Gaster ability doesn't mean that ability was to create a new faction, necessarily. and whether Maxous was even aware of the full extent of it is also up in the air.

again: why is a perceived illogical argument grounds for voting me? where's the scum motivation?

Accountant while I mentioned trolling as a possibility, both sides have to be analyzed.

It isn't the motivation that is the question. Scum do things that don't always have a motivation. It is more of a townie mindset and I don't see how a townie writes those posts.

[MathBlade]

i doubt Maxous decided to try and trick us in death. so far, the Gaster messages have just been related to the Gaster ability activated, and i wouldn't think this latest one would be an exception.

one: Maxous would have been aware if his death created a faction he would win with. i didn't get the sense he was.

um

It is more so that if you were Town I would not be theorizing about someone not receiving a part of their role PM. The bottom sentence suggesting Maxous creating a faction against his will doesn't jive with the top half of the PM. Furthermore you instead then make the vocal point Gaster instead of continually investigating or questioning Narna who immediately voted for you at the start of the day. It is like you aren't trying to interact and investigate but spill as much wine as possible before you believe you would be lynched.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: not chara

pine have you produced any content beyond asking us to lynch the mod

I have been trying and failing to catch up prior to now. I am now keeping up since daystart, though I never really finished catching up on D5. The past is the past, and I'm assessing people on their actions at present, rather than the hidebound arguments past.

I kind of feel like discussing the Maxous issue without doing anything is useless. I'm kind of feeling a Mathblade lynch - everything I've seen has featured them stifling contrary discussion, which is why this thread is a barren wasteland of anything other than a couple of people running their mouths.

On the contrary. I am open to discussion including those that wish to lynch me. I think you are wrong and the fact you push me coinciding with things going on I find no coincidence.

[MathBlade]

My meds are kicking in so I am going to bed. Good night all.

[MathBlade]

SirCakez on N2 who did you visit? I know super random can't find it in my notes here. So if you said it already sorry. Since you claimed roleblock I am assuming you visit people.

Not Chara -- I would be showing a bit more concern if a person who is a claimed psychologist votes you. You just asked for results. Very defeatist to me

[MathBlade]

Doesn't make sense. So sleepy. Before faction thing likely 4-5 scums. 13 alive. Some number of lynches away from my/LyLO worry should be there. Instead makes not townie posts. I don't like its posting...

Falling asleep

[MathBlade]

Me being an investigative does though.

No it doesn't. While I trust you IMHO that is not the purpose of a hood. A hood is for town unouted PRs to be able to give results and try to form a masonry as best as you can. Adding you to the hood gains nothing except adding a VT would and you are not widely trusted. While I trust you I think you are a poor hood choice.

[MathBlade]

The reason is because you have to announce your results each day so there is nothing new gained.

[MathBlade]

I also do not control anyone else's slot either or you would have listened to my suggestions last night. *sigh* I am a loud vocal player but I only pushed Maxous so damn hard because he was a confirmed liar. If I find another I will push as hard. Otherwise it is just "I believe this"

[MathBlade]

I understand that is why it is a suggestion.

This is in regards to checking self or Ank from yesterday. Using your logic why did you not check Ank?

[MathBlade]

Oh and I am dumb I just realized something.

VOTE: BigYoshiFan

Gotta go to work.

[MathBlade]

I need bread before I go to work. Will explain after work. No time now.

[MathBlade]

I want to make it a site rule that people can't vote other people without explaining why >.<

Read yesterday too. Big wall post.

Gotta run.

Rule sucks otherwise no RVS and games die.

[MathBlade]

I understand that is why it is a suggestion.

This is in regards to checking self or Ank from yesterday. Using your logic why did you not check Ank?

I already got confirmation on my sanity, and checking Ank would be fucking stupid. What logic are you talking about?

The slot recruited an outed Shiro into they neighborhood, and scum not knowing who I check can only be a good thing.

I think that was not a smart recruit.

Ank check not stupid because you said since N2. It would have confirmed something.

[MathBlade]

Dammit Shiro

I am Gerson - Psychologist

I can investigate a player every night and find out if they have or have had the ability to kill up until that point. So Massive has had no ability to kill as of n2, and therefore he is town.

[MathBlade]

Not sure why you want me to quote your own words but okay. But that was fast.

[MathBlade]

Creeps no that is dumb. Because of lynch on Maxous yesterday MyLO/LyLO is no where near close.

Erm okay then that means scum either shot me or something else stopped it.

[MathBlade]

Doesn't make sense. So sleepy. Before faction thing likely 4-5 scums. 13 alive. Some number of lynches away from my/LyLO worry should be there. Instead makes not townie posts. I don't like its posting...

Falling asleep

I think 4-5 scum at start of game because when I dipped into moderation on another site the general rule of thumb is takenumber of players and divide by 4 or 5. When I ran 5 scum with 15 a friend politely crucified me and taught me a lot of what I know for balance now.

This makes us no where near MyLO/LyLO and I did not say less than.
22/4 is 5 and change. So 5 + some powers
22/5 is 4 and change. So 4 + lots of powers

[MathBlade]

Therefore at the start of the game the most likely scenario is Maxous and 4 scum but those scum likely have powers which makes sense due to the seemingly role Madness nature of the game.

@Nahdia Why did you block no one?

[MathBlade]

Lemme answer your question with a question.

Why would I block anyone?

Because you are a claimed Jailkeeper and we have lost lots of townies and you can save a life by targeting the victim or the killer.

[MathBlade]

N1 - Shiro
N2 - Nahdia
N3 - Not Chara
N4 - Sir Cakez

they're my real targets, I tried blocking Cakez because I thoguht he might be a 'surprise scum'. I would of admitted it but Nahdia says she jailkept me which put me in trouble and I had to lie about it.

...You gonna post content like ever?

[MathBlade]

Why in the hell would I be interested in saving anyone when I've clearly stated I strongly believe a mass culting just happened?

Because if it was there was curling (the most likely scenario) then there would be even less town that before. If anything I would have jailkept my top town read and see if they claimed it or not to verify their alignment.

[MathBlade]

Culting * wow autocorrect

[MathBlade]

Lemme answer your question with a question.

Why would I block anyone?

Because you are a claimed Jailkeeper and we have lost lots of townies and you can save a life by targeting the victim or the killer.

I highly doubt that the risk is worth it. And the chances are pretty slim that the attacker will be targeted. Assuming your right.

I think it is worth it to either save a life and/or get a good read on someone. There is almost no instance I wouldn't use a Jailkeeper. If Nahdia doesn't Jailkeep on N7 I would find this extra worrisome.

[MathBlade]

How would that verify their alignment at all......?

Because you would be able to see they are telling the truth.
In a case with a kill you know they are not the killer and thus are much more likely to be of your alignment. In a case without a kill it is very unlikely scum would admit roleblocked attracts too much attention.

[MathBlade]

I don't follow your thinking even slightly, Mathblade. My jailkeep has failed every single time I've used it by some mechanism or another. So no, my targeting anyone doesn't verify shit.

Technically it has only "failed" on Zakk. N3 you submitted none N2/N4 was the Maxous stuff
The odd ones are the only suspicious ones.

N1 likely strongman kill.
Also you don't stop using a power because you get jailkept or blocked a million times. Mass Effect Mafia my first post for like 5 days in a row was I was blocked. Eventually it will work. You don't vanillize yourself or that does scum's job for them.

[MathBlade]

Especially if you're arguing this is now multiball rather than a single scum faction now exists, that's just meshugas.

I am arguing it is the most likely but not guaranteed. Multiball you use it even more because more bullets flying.

The fact remains though why did no one die?

[MathBlade]

You. Should. Want. Town. Alive.

[MathBlade]

If cult exists: Old townreads would be town or cult. Old scum would be scum or cult.

Therefore townreads likely still valid and we try to lynch scum reads til game over or likely cult only.

If no cult well duh lynch scumreads.

Tldr lynch scumreads pre Maxous

[MathBlade]

Back to work for me.

[MathBlade]

there's probably some logical error in my last post. i'll look at it later.

i agree with Accountant. not that we have proof one was created, i just don't think Math's 'Maxous was trolling' theory holds water. there's no reason for him to have done it.

Now that is a good point.

No cultist creator (assuming one exists) would aim at me though. That is like all kinds of terribad because of the gamestate. The point of a cult is to be hidden. So cult the megaphone makes no sense.

So we need to find the scum pre cult if you believe one exists. Flip them. They should be either cult or scum.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't a recruiting ability fail if the recruiter targets Scum??

On different sites the answer is different. If they can't then they are scum anyway. Priority should be scum to lynch. Not a cult that may or may not exist.

[MathBlade]

So... MathBlade.
Since this day started, how have you helped this town?

1) I am attempting to address the insanity cult hunting right now.
2) While people are making posts about the cult I am poking things that seem off.
3) Poking Nahdia over their clear bullshit of not doing a damn thing and other ridiculous posts.

I know you are doing your job of trying to look Town and sheep in general but when it is obvious you are doing nothing it is really annoying.

[MathBlade]

If anyone cares my lynch pool today is Not Chara, BigYoshiFan/Pine, Pine/BigYoshiFan, and Almost50 in that order.

I refuse to be included on that list only as a 3rd runner up. I call foul play. I should be a finalist at the very least, if not

the

top top lynch candidate.

Too bad. They are my reads. If you really want to be lynched brag about how you did it all. If anything Not Chara is likely the mastermind not you.

[MathBlade]

I'll make one too: Not Chara, Almost50, Pine, and MathBlade,

Oh, then I'll make one myself: Not Chara (not really), BigYoshi, Pine, and MathBlade.

@Chara:

Quick! Jump in and replace your name by mine. It looks like THIS is the game now, and whoever messes it up and puts the wrong entries eats rope. HURRY!

While this is hilarious it is not scumhunting people.

[MathBlade]

Accountant's town, if it matters. Pine also looks town for whatever reason. maybe it's the lack of trying. i wouldn't put stock in it like i am with the Accountant townread.

on Nahdia: i see why they didn't want to use their jailkeeper, but ido agree they should be. they thought they were being redirected due to Maxous, but without the possibility of a redirect, there's no danger. even if they don't want to protect anyone, i'd still be aiming for scum.

there's a distinct possibility we're one mislynch away from lylo/mylo. can we just massclaim.

This post is all kinds of horrible. Pants people. They exist.

Mass claim is only for when it is MyLO/LyLO. I don't think there were 6 scum at setup open.

[MathBlade]

how about we just throw away most of what i said in my theory post.

the gist of it is: i won't accept any theories/courses of action that rely on the lack of a scumteam in the first half of the game. that said, a mass-culting event isn't out of the realm of possibility.

Wait! I need to get this one straight. Do we have a "mass culting" or just a "cult" now? I mean, according to your theory/best guess?

What I mean is, I though we were talking about a possible SINGLE CULTIST who would have to pick a target to recruit each night, and is prone to success or failure.

A "mass" culting though would mean we already have a faction called "The Cult" (or something similar, such as the GASTER worshipers ) who would not actually mechanically act like a cult (i.e. they'd have no ability to recruit any new members) but will have to have one member alive at the end of the game to win (in other words, a mass of survivours.. a survivour faction.. you know what I mean having played in Mastin2's Gitsou)

I'm fairly sure based on the 1 day gap between "Technical Difficulties" and night start, and then the extended night phase, there was a mass recruitment creating this "survivor" faction (which we can't win with, so calling them survivors is a bit of a misnomer). It's possible Maxous just targeted someone to become a cult leader, but then that doesn't really explain the extended night phase.

Or mod was AFK for that day. *Shrug*
Let's not try to scumhunt the mod in a bastard setup.

[MathBlade]

So... MathBlade.
Since this day started, how have you helped this town?

1) I am attempting to address the insanity cult hunting right now.
2) While people are making posts about the cult I am poking things that seem off.
3) Poking Nahdia over their clear bullshit of not doing a damn thing and other ridiculous posts.

I know you are doing your job of trying to look Town and sheep in general but when it is obvious you are doing nothing it is really annoying.

why would you even bother answering this ridiculous question? why aren't you voting Yoshi?

While I don't think it was serious from Yoshi there were murmurs about me being curled or recruiter or whatever (which is incorrect). I answer for everyone not for the person who asked.

[MathBlade]

Mass claim is only for when it is MyLO/LyLO.

This is all sorts of bullshit. You just don't want to claim, I don't know why you could've just said that without all the other shit.
VOTE: MathBlade

Already claimed numbskull.

Bulletproof *sigh*

Please stop this is terribad.

[MathBlade]

Doesn't make sense. So sleepy. Before faction thing likely 4-5 scums. 13 alive. Some number of lynches away from my/LyLO worry should be there. Instead makes not townie posts. I don't like its posting...

Falling asleep

Creeps no that is dumb. Because of lynch on Maxous yesterday MyLO/LyLO is no where near close.

Erm okay then that means scum either shot me or something else stopped it.

you're the one who doesn't make sense.

pedit: damn it, Yoshi, stop having sentiments i agree with.

I see no issue there. Some number of lynches away. That should be more important than hunting a cult that may or may not exist and unlikely 6 scum so mass claim is stupid.

[MathBlade]

Or mod was AFK for that day. *Shrug*

This doesn't make any sense. Why would they post "Technical Difficulties: Please Hold" but not just start the night. Christ almighty, MathBlade, are you even listening to yourself???

Because they could be AFK? I don't know I am not the mod. The point is trying to use the mod to read gamestate in bastard game is dumb.

[MathBlade]

Mass claim is only for when it is MyLO/LyLO.

This is all sorts of bullshit. You just don't want to claim, I don't know why you could've just said that without all the other shit.
VOTE: MathBlade

Already claimed numbskull.

Bulletproof *sigh*

Please stop this is terribad.

You have an investigative role too, don't you? I thought I remembered you softing or claiming some sort of investigative.

...... Let me get this straight. I say claiming is a bad idea and then tell you what I am and then you ask me to drop pants. In what world do you imagine an answer to that?

[MathBlade]

Or mod was AFK for that day. *Shrug*

This doesn't make any sense. Why would they post "Technical Difficulties: Please Hold" but not just start the night. Christ almighty, MathBlade, are you even listening to yourself???

Because they could be AFK? I don't know I am not the mod. The point is trying to use the mod to read gamestate in bastard game is dumb.

Why are you so eager to dismiss what little information we have

Because it isn't information. It is theories. And we should be scumhunting. Not hunting for a cult that may or may not exist.

[MathBlade]

MathBlade: where on earth did your Yoshi scumread run off to?

pedit: i'd pick you, Almost. as Mathblade said, we'd make a good team.
well, somewhat. we weren't that great in Death Note, haha.

Still present. Look at my lynch list.

[MathBlade]

...... Let me get this straight. I say claiming is a bad idea and then tell you what I am and then you ask me to drop pants. In what world do you imagine an answer to that?

Well... you claimed BP. The tone at which you posted seems like:"I have already claimed, so I am innocent", but you didn't claim your investigative. You're not denying it.

Of course. I am outed bulletproof.
If I have an investigative I am a threat to scum so they will try to mislynch me or get a strongman kill. If I don't and act as if I have an investigative same thing happens.
There is literally no good that comes from answering that question.

[MathBlade]

MathBlade: where on earth did your Yoshi scumread run off to?

pedit: i'd pick you, Almost. as Mathblade said, we'd make a good team.
well, somewhat. we weren't that great in Death Note, haha.

Still present. Look at my lynch list.

i know that. it's there in name and not in spirit. no one tells their scumreads to 'stop being bad'.

not to mention you're still voting me based on faulty tone assumptions.

I am voting the perceived mastermind of scum.

I don't compromise until I have to. Ever.

[MathBlade]

More work for me.

There is no clear answer of a guilty to explain no NK last night.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Not Chara

I could have sworn my vote was on Not Chara. I think my bronchitis meds are making me derp. Fixed now.

[MathBlade]

Why, because I was right about Maxous?

Correction I was right and brought people kicking and screaming. You caught on and voted later and still occasionally tired to lynch yoshi during it.

Pretty much from my POV

Gio+Narna+Nahdia unknown on Creeps
OR
Not Chara+BYF/Pine+Almost50

The fact Gio having weird results with Maxous D2 makes the latter combination infinitely more likely. Especially with the shitty start of day by Not Chara and Almost50 creating more spam than Hormel

[MathBlade]

Correction I was right and brought people kicking and screaming. You caught on and voted later and still occasionally tired to lynch yoshi during it.

EXCUSE ME? YOU WANTED TO LET MAXOUS LIVE WHEN HE CLAIMED SURVIVOR.

No I did not. If Maxous thought he was going to lose then he wouldn't have explained the night actions which reaffirms the town block. There was no way he wasn't be lynched. I was friendly. I said give us a reason to let you live. I wanted to get as much out before hammering.

[MathBlade]

Why, because I was right about Maxous?

Correction I was right and brought people kicking and screaming. You caught on and voted later and still occasionally tired to lynch yoshi during it.

Pretty much from my POV

Gio+Narna+Nahdia unknown on Creeps
OR
Not Chara+BYF/Pine+Almost50

The fact Gio having weird results with Maxous D2 makes the latter combination infinitely more likely. Especially with the shitty start of day by Not Chara and Almost50 creating more spam than Hormel

oh, shut it. i can give you spam, you don't want it.

Almost50 was the spammer not you. You had shitty start.

[MathBlade]

I am not. I am merely stating the associations I see.

[MathBlade]

Oh and I am dumb I just realized something.

VOTE: BigYoshiFan

Gotta go to work.

This specific vote was back before Nahdia blocked no one. My initial instinct was that Nahdia was crumbing that Nahdia had blocked Yoshi as they were scumreading Yoshi hard yesterday. I thought I had revoted Not Chara after Nahdia made it clear they didn't block anyone. Obviously I didn't so I fixed it once the VC went up.

The old case was posted preflip http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8595707

There's more reasons but until someone interacts with those I would make more spam.

[MathBlade]

i still think i'm pocketed. scum not pushing for my lynch are probably doing so because they figure i'll be mislynched. Math's case on me makes no sense if town, but they probably are. and Yoshi is scum.

I have a suggestion. We both plead guilty and have Math lynching us both, then we go find a game where there are people who are actually trying to develop reads rather than pulling some out of thin air or fishing for someone else's role or being so friggin' stubborn the won't change their mind under any given circumstances. I hope you now see why I'm HAPPY about receiving the role of the ANNOYING Dog (emphasis on ANNOYING because that's the fun part). It is giving me room to release the pressure without venting of calling names. Sarcasm IS a cure, you know.

Stubborn doesn't mean wrong. It just means stubborn.

[MathBlade]

Being stubborn = won't look at things even if they poked them in the eye = often wrong because of ignoring obvious stuff and manipulating one's own logic to reach the already designated conclusion.

And I KNOW you're wrong. At least about me. But there's absolutely nothing I can do to help you there, and I'm not going to change my real life character to fit a role playing game, and much less so to fit someone else's perceived idea of how I should play, and ESPECIALLY so when that someone has been more wrong than right in games we played together.

You may see it differently, but I'm calling it as

I

am seeing it. I play to have fun and that's exactly what I'm getting here. This game is FUN. This is also why I decided to stop editing my stats on the wiki for a while. I don't want to have a heart attack from getting too emotional and stuff. I do try to win, but I dropped the part about being pissed when people decide to act strange and be persistent about it.

Thank you.

VOTE TRUMP!

OH! You already did, it seems!

I will never ever ever vote Trump. *shivers*

You say I'm not looking at things correctly but right now I'm looking at very likely Gio+Narna+Nadhia+Creeps+Accountant town. SirCakez and Ankanimus town reads are getting stronger. I know I am town.

This means that scum would be in (Not Chara, Big Yoshi, Pine, PeregrineV, Almost50).

So unless you can explain to me how that circle jerk of innocents is a lie I'm going to pursue the most likely group which is here. And if you say Narna is scum, then Gio is scum. If you say Gio is scum then likely Nahdia scum.

It's pretty much all fruit of the tree at this point. The only person who could be a part of both is Not Chara.

[MathBlade]

Why?

[MathBlade]

If NC or BYF is scum I'm pretty sure the other is too

great. i'm scum. lynch Yoshi.

<.<

See now a problem I realize in retrospect with that statement is that I don't see NC/BYF fitting with A50/Narna/Gio.

It can't. That's why I am split between two different potential teams.

Who are your biggest town reads SirCakez? (Myself excluded) Also for shits and giggles please repeat for N4?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Almost50

Granted I am happy you are voting a scumread of mine but why are you? I explained my Yoshi read explain your Almost50 read.

[MathBlade]

great bit there Andrius @4060

I don't see how Gaster is decidedly anti-town by the way. 3p / underground-aligned is most likely based on game flavor, I'd imagine. But that's probably irrelevant information at the moment.

Not Chara is town guys

Please


Can
We
Lynch
Titus

This is your old slot. Said 3P is fine. Your old slot made blanket NC is town statements and never bothered to actually put Not Chara as a town or scumread a common tell.

[MathBlade]

hey, Peregrine, please continue to be town. thank you.
my magna vote was ignored. i'm crying. come on, zakk, Snarky isn't a fun wagon.

Similarly Not Chara does the same thing.

It is these types of examples and a lack of questions to each other is what makes you related. It wasn't til I came in did Not Chara start Yoshi push. That isn't natural. It is a response to being pinned in and trying to bus for the creds but hoping it doesn't go through. Notice how many people (A50 included) say they will lynch Yoshi of support.

[MathBlade]

There is plenty of time. I am scumhunting and trying to poke people for associations. I am going to discuss and put my vote where I want it. We have had a lot of apathy and "because we can" lynches this game. We need to not take easy fruit here and poke. What you are suggesting Almost is low hanging fruit.

Big Yoshi do you Town or scumread Not Chara and why?

[MathBlade]

Scum because it is voting me.

Just kidding, but I don't recall it scumreading me yesterday as it says.
Nothing strikes out to me as scum from NC.
To be honest, I like NC's interaction with you right around 7950-ish.
I'm sorry, but your posts there seemed wack, and NC seemed to see it like I did.
I mean... is null acceptable? I'm sure you know by now that when you ask me for a read I won't deliver to the potential you're asking for.
I'm not understanding the scumreads on NC prior to this day, persuade me. I haven't spent much time on NC.

I know you won't deliver because it is against your wincon.
Secondly if you have no reason to scumread it and then say you agree with it then that makes it a townread. But I think you are trying to avoid association with it.

Now try again this time with Almost50. What is your read on them?

[MathBlade]

Accountant's town, if it matters. Pine also looks town for whatever reason. maybe it's the lack of trying. i wouldn't put stock in it like i am with the Accountant townread.

on Nahdia: i see why they didn't want to use their jailkeeper, but ido agree they should be. they thought they were being redirected due to Maxous, but without the possibility of a redirect, there's no danger. even if they don't want to protect anyone, i'd still be aiming for scum.

there's a distinct possibility we're one mislynch away from lylo/mylo. can we just massclaim.

Not Chara contradicted themselves based on what they said in RVS. They said they don't support claiming unless MYLO/LYLO. This is just sloppy bad play. Not Chara is scum with you Yoshi.

[MathBlade]

I watched Pacifist and Genocide, is that enough?

you know basically all of the plot. the problem is there are so many differing motivations in Undertale (plus, at least three different neutral endings) that it would be difficult.
plus, i think flavour claiming is just a bad idea when scum surely have fakeclaims. i oppose this as a rule unless we're in lylo.

[MathBlade]

Then you follow it up with a vote on me to try to get the ball rolling on a claim. The links are there. The connection is there. You just can't see it because you are scum with it and unable to pull yourself out to see it.