Newbie 1766 - Game Over

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Sup nerds and rb
VOTE: Political CloutVOTE:

Anyone new to mafia or new to online mafia should check out Huntress's links at the bottom of 1

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: PoliticalClout

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah I can barely read that blue on the dark theme tbh

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hey that's a lot of writing and not a lot of voting you're doing there
VOTE: the_end

[ssbm_Kyouko]

He's voting someone already. It's okay to just pick a name at random off the list and vote it. It's expected really that you start by voting for someone, especially if you're one of the first few players to post in the game. Sometimes you don't get online until a few pages have passed and then you'll want to check the vote count before you vote so you don't put yourself onto a big wagon you don't actually support.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hey rb I vote from phone all the time you lazy bum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hey that's a lot of writing and not a lot of voting you're doing there
VOTE: the_end

I'm just waiting for everyone to post before I decide who to vote for.

There was a lot of writing from rb before I came along. Why didn't you vote for him?

He voted

I thought the same thing but he actually didn't vote at the time that I pointed that out

He's voting someone already. It's okay to just pick a name at random off the list and vote it. It's expected really that you start by voting for someone, especially if you're one of the first few players to post in the game. Sometimes you don't get online until a few pages have passed and then you'll want to check the vote count before you vote so you don't put yourself onto a big wagon you don't actually support.

Yeah, but why do what's expected?

Optimal play for both alignments is to start rvs that way imo

I'm going to UNVOTE: rb for now because Zekro's vote, but I'm a bit iffy about the openness of declaring reads and alignment so soon. Could just be how rb works tho and to be fair there's something to be said about sort-of-kind-of leading us towards the end of rvs this early.

I'm not sure what I feel about the other major slots so far. Can I do questions or is that kinda frowned upon?? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You can do questions. I have one for you: are you made uncomfortable by Zekro voting rb? If you're iffy about him declaring reads why would you move your vote?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Wagons are the best. I always wagon

It's all fun and games until some one dies of dysentery

or rope

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If you read the sample PM for Mafia goon, it clearly says they can only talk at night.

I suspect you read this out of YOUR OWN ROLE PM

VOTE: ThinkBig

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I suspect you read that the mafia have no daytalk in your own role pm. Did you read my post?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I see

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: RB

Not even a full 3 pages in and we already have a player at L2. I don't like the way RB has been pushing for wagons. If he wants a random wagon, I am happy with this one. We shouldn't lynch without a cause.

You open the game by pushing for what looks like a mislynch to me. Wagons are a good thing, they draw players out of hiding and get them to react. You contesting "wagons" as a general idea and implying that the_end might be lynched in the same post while simultaneously voting for the easiest target on the wagon makes me think you are scum either trying to chainsaw defend for the_end because he is town and you want to pocket him later or because he is scum and you want the wagon off of him.

@MOD: Can you post your vote counts in green? It's very easy to miss the VC.

There is no daytalk in newbie games.

If you read the sample PM for Mafia goon, it clearly says they can only talk at night.

Your next 3 posts are all informational and lacking any content.

do u guys not think the_end is scum?

Why do you think he is scum?

Your last post before my vote confirms my suspicion that you have a reason to not want votes on the_end. I do not know the reason but suspect you might be scum, so I vote you.
You have a bad reaction to me voting you, so my vote will stay for now.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@Sofiel - I jumped on it quickly because he overreacted to what appeared on the surface to be a weak vote. I had a reason to vote him but decided it would be better to see what he would do if I poked him.

I suspect you read that the mafia have no daytalk in your own role pm. Did you read my post?

I've played enough newbie games on here to know that scum team doesn't have day talk. Read the sample PM. You are grasping for straws in a very scummy way.

VOTE: ssbm

This is not a townie reaction to a single weak vote. If he were town he would ignore my vote because it poses no threat to him, because nobody would follow after a weak vote like that. Scum, however, are very paranoid of being lynched and will sometimes overreact to these kinds of votes. I think this is what he did, and that's further confirming my feeling that he is scum, which is why my vote will stay.

pedit:
@Lucca - As for whether my vote was a reaction test: yes it was, but I had a real reason to suspect him, it was just a weak reason. I was just about to ask you what you thought about that exchange. Do you think ThinkBig has been so towny this game that my vote should not be on him?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Your last post before my vote confirms my suspicion that you have a reason to not want votes on the_end. I do not know the reason but suspect you might be scum, so I vote you.

The reason why I don't want to vote for the_end is because I don't want to put someone at L-1 so early in the game. Random voting and even wagons are good. Putting someone at L-1 so early isn't.

That's a good reason for

you

not to vote the_end. Nobody ever put him to L-1 though, so why not wait and see if anyone else will put him at L-1? Wouldn't that person look suspicious if they decided to run someone up to L-1 so quickly when the day has hardly even begun? What I don't understand is why you were trying to push a counterwagon on the easiest target on his wagon. It makes it look to me like scum!TB is either trying to pocket town!the_end or defend a partner
@Lucca - I thought there was a motive that may have been a scum motive when I read TBs posts. I decided to vote him, but instead of explaining I decided to test him with the vote. My vote on him is real, but if he's null to you why are you willing to sheep? That doesn't sound right at all, sounds scummy to me.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

FOS: ssbm

I suspect you read that the mafia have no daytalk in your own role pm. Did you read my post?

Seriously? There are CLEARLY SAMPLE PMS ON THE FIRST PAGE.

but he CLEARLY READ IT FROM HIS OWN PM

Also finish catch up and comment on my ThinkBig exchange

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What does Idem mean? "I don't even mind"?

Why would you unvote someone and not ask anyone else a direct question? Are you even trying to find scum? Do you have any reads of your own or are you just waiting for popular opinion to form so you can mold your reads to fit that?

VOTE: Zekromaster

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I have a problem with post 97 - can anyone guess what it is?

TMI

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If you read the sample PM for Mafia goon, it clearly says they can only talk at night.

I suspect you read this out of YOUR OWN ROLE PM

VOTE: ThinkBig

Booooo. This is reachy.

This is me not explaining why I'm voting someone to see how they react to a meaningless vote. OMGUS is not a good look and that's why I decided to keep my vote there. It's early D1 so my vote will be on the person I think is scummiest.

You have a bad reaction to me voting you, so my vote will stay for now.

"I wish to continue having my vote parked here for no reason"

I gave my reason. Whether you agree with it or not doesn't change the fact that it is there and in the open. Why do you misrepresent me here?

@Sofiel - I jumped on it quickly because he overreacted to what appeared on the surface to be a weak vote. I had a reason to vote him but decided it would be better to see what he would do if I poked him.

I suspect you read that the mafia have no daytalk in your own role pm. Did you read my post?

I've played enough newbie games on here to know that scum team doesn't have day talk. Read the sample PM. You are grasping for straws in a very scummy way.

VOTE: ssbm

This is not a townie reaction to a single weak vote. If he were town he would ignore my vote because it poses no threat to him, because nobody would follow after a weak vote like that. Scum, however, are very paranoid of being lynched and will sometimes overreact to these kinds of votes. I think this is what he did, and that's further confirming my feeling that he is scum, which is why my vote will stay.

I disagree. Your vote on him was pretty baseless and opportunistic; whether you agree or not isn't what's important. What is important is the reaction, really, as you were saying.

Thinkbig saw that it was kind of a baseless reason to be parking your vote, and called you out on it. I feel like as town, this makes a lot of sense; a scum reaction probably would have been less about attacking/pressuring you and more about defending himself. E.g., it probably would have been a scum reaction if he was busy defending himself trying to prove that he just read the OP instead of his own PM.

town is hunting for scum,

scum is defending themselves

.

Thinkbig may have disagreed with why I was SRing him, but I don't think his response to my vote was towny at all. A town reaction would be to disregard something that nobody else would follow. I feel like nobody is reading the entirety of that exchange, because you're probably the third person who thinks my original reason for voting TB was actually because I thought he read about daytalk in his own role PM. I explained the reason I voted him after I was done testing him. Also I strongly disagree with the bolded, if scum just defends themselves and never hunts for "scum" they would lose a lot more games than they do

What does Idem mean? "I don't even mind"?

Why would you unvote someone and not ask anyone else a direct question? Are you even trying to find scum? Do you have any reads of your own or are you just waiting for popular opinion to form so you can mold your reads to fit that?

VOTE: Zekromaster

I'm conflicted here, because I absolutely agree with this post, but it also looks like ssbm jumping off of that ThinkBig wagon ASAP because it sure was a bad look.

ThinkBig was my strongest SR at the time. This was much scummier than TBs reaction to my vote. If he had remained calm under pressure I would have looked elsewhere for a scummy player. What was so bad about voting TB? I explained the real reason in 81.

liking RB for town more and more.

@zekrom, if you had to bet the game on one player being scum, right now, who would you choose?
@sofiel, same question.
@friend, you got any real reasons to vote end right now or is the vote still random? because you fosed ssbm and rb, but instead of voting them, kept a random vote. why is that?
@ssbm, are you going to scumhunt at all?

i got a weird feeling about Sofiel's #113. I feel like he wanted to vote The_End, but didn't wanted to be the third vote on the wagon, so he voted Zekrom instead. The logic is weird. He thinks that pointing out his decision is opportunistic scum. But he didn't think I was scum for doing it. I feel like he was looking for an excuse for voting Zekrom.

--

UNVOTE: Think

keeping voting Think right now is useless, since he is going to be V/LA.

i'll unvote and wait for the answers.

The questions in the post seem kind of boring, random, and baseless. Why ask that to ssbm, when there's like half the game that's made a lot less of an effort to do anything?

I get the feeling lucca is very suspicious of me and hesitates to say it. I felt like he saw my reaction test and decided to try one of his own on me when he offered to sheep me on someone who he thought was null.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Thinkbig may have disagreed with why I was SRing him, but I don't think his response to my vote was towny at all. A town reaction would be to disregard something that nobody else would follow. I feel like nobody is reading the entirety of that exchange, because you're probably the third person who thinks my original reason for voting TB was actually because I thought he read about daytalk in his own role PM. I explained the reason I voted him after I was done testing him. Also I strongly disagree with the bolded, if scum just defends themselves and never hunts for "scum" they would lose a lot more games than they do

That's not true. I asked you if it was a reaction test, or if you had voted Think seriously for his comment to me. Your answer: "As for whether my vote was a reaction test: yes it was, but I had a real reason to suspect him, it was just a weak reason". Here is you clearly saying that you voted him for that comment.

VOTE: Kyouko

Yeah that's definitely not me saying I voted TB for his comment about daytalk directed at you. I told you my vote was a reaction test. I also told you I had a real reason to suspect him, but didn't tell you what it was in that post. My reason for originally voting him is in 81. The comment about daytalk was meant to bait a reaction out of him

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It's because people think I literally voted TB for reading his role PM, and not for the reasons detailed in 81
(I think)

What pings me a bit is that neither of the_end or zekromaster are on my wagon rn which makes me think they aren't the scumteam. Lucca looks probably the towniest vote on my wagon with those detailed explanations, but I think he's misinterpreting some key points due to the language barrier

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Not much has really happened but it's only page 7. That's a fair clarification. My wagon sux btw

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It's because people think I literally voted TB for reading his role PM, and not for the reasons detailed in 81
(I think)

What pings me a bit is that neither of the_end or zekromaster are on my wagon rn which makes me think they aren't the scumteam. Lucca looks probably the towniest vote on my wagon with those detailed explanations, but I think he's misinterpreting some key points due to the language barrier

What points to you think I'm misinterpreting? Only the PM vote? Or there is something else on the "case" I made on you that you think I was misinterpreting?

Gonna outline what I think you're misinterpreting below. Making this from phone so it may not be as well organized as it should be for a wallpost

I get the feeling lucca is very suspicious of me and hesitates to say it. I felt like he saw my reaction test and decided to try one of his own on me when he offered to sheep me on someone who he thought was null.

I don't hesitate to say that at all. I was waiting to see if you were going to interact with me about my vote, but you isn't so interested. So, let's get going:

- My first reason to suspect kyouko was his vote at think. Not the vote itself (that I would hate if it was serious, but since it was a reaction test, it's ok), but the "case" he made on Think's earlier posts, compared to a response he gave me. I quote:

pedit:
@Lucca - As for whether my vote was a reaction test: yes it was, but I had a real reason to suspect him, it was just a weak reason. I was just about to ask you what you thought about that exchange. Do you think ThinkBig has been so towny this game that my vote should not be on him?

My point is: he had a real reason, even if he had a weak reason to vote him. his words. To me, it appears that reason he's talking about it's the answer to my question. But then, after voting him for the answer, he went there and posted a "case" based on his earlier posts, at #81. I don't get this. All of Think's posts were available for him to do that "case" earlier, when he voted him for the answer.

So why he said his vote was a reaction test based only on the answer?

Also, I thought he was cleverly asking me if I was open to a Think's lynch. So I went and voted for him.

The reason for the vote is easy. If he is town on that exchange with Think, and even later, with Zekrom, he seems to be the type of player who finds the tiniest crack, and pushes on it, to create interaction between players. So I went and voted for a null player. If you look at my post where I say I'm willing to sheep and call him null, it's a small post, with one line. I knew I was being scummy. I expected Kyouko, especially !townkyouko, to push on it, given that he seems to vote for people over the tiniest stuff, to get a reaction. But he only commented on it.

---

The second reason that I suspect kyouko it's his change at voting. He, on #95:

I decided to vote him, but instead of explaining I decided to test him with the vote. My vote on him is real...

and on #102:

Also finish catch up and comment on my ThinkBig exchange

seemed both happy staying voting Think, and testing the waters for a possible wagon on him

. But then, on #105 he suddenly changes his vote for Zekrom. for that, let's go to his answers to Aero:

Thinkbig may have disagreed with why I was SRing him, but I don't think his response to my vote was towny at all. A town reaction would be to disregard something that nobody else would follow. I feel like nobody is reading the entirety of that exchange, because you're probably the third person who thinks my original reason for voting TB was actually because I thought he read about daytalk in his own role PM. I explained the reason I voted him after I was done testing him. Also I strongly disagree with the bolded, if scum just defends themselves and never hunts for "scum" they would lose a lot more games than they do

That's not true. I asked you if it was a reaction test, or if you had voted Think seriously for his comment to me. Your answer: "As for whether my vote was a reaction test: yes it was, but I had a real reason to suspect him, it was just a weak reason".

Here is you clearly saying that you voted him for that comment

.

Also, on this answer to Aero he seems very suspicious aboout Think, saying that the response to his vote was not towny. I had just voted Think. If you think a player response to his vote wasn't towny, when the same player gets another vote to react against, would you vote another player so quickly?

VOTE: Kyouko

---

going to say my thoughts on this page, as well as my reads on each player on another post.

Going to address the bolded in order.

• My vote was a reaction test because I decided to withhold my reason for voting him when I voted him. I had already noticed the posts I quoted in 81 when I pushed on TB. I didn't come up with those reasons after seeing a bad reaction to my vote.
• 102 was directed at the_end who had posted something on a partial catch-up up to page 3 I believe. I told them to finish their catch-up and comment on my exchange because they were the player I thought TB was chainsawing for, and I wasn't sure if it was because they were scum together or if it was TB trying to pocket the_end. the_end put gave weak stances on both of us that implied he either didn't fully understand my 81 or hadn't read it. I wanted to hear what he thought of my accusing TB of chainsawing him, so I told him to finish catching up and then comment on it. And of course I was happy voting TB at the time, he was my top SR at the time.
• That was not me clearly stating I'd voted him for the comment about daytalk, that was me explaining in my answer that your question wasn't worded correctly because the answer wasn't as simple as the closed-ended question suggested. I clarified that I
  both
  had a reason to vote him
  and
  that my vote was reaction testing him.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm catching up. Let me know if I missed anything

My last post reminded me you never did explain full thoughts on my TB exchange after I followed your 97 with 102. Specifically, what do you think of my suspicion that TB was chainsawing for you by attacking rb, which I detailed in 81?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Prodge, busy day, gotta sleep

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm catching up. Let me know if I missed anything

My last post reminded me you never did explain full thoughts on my TB exchange after I followed your 97 with 102. Specifically, what do you think of my suspicion that TB was chainsawing for you by attacking rb, which I detailed in 81?

@the_end

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My reason for voting Zekromaster is in my voting post. He hasn't been towntelling since either so I haven't unvoted him or moved votes yet

@Mod - VLA through Jan. 2

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Well that was an opportunistic and unexplained L-1 vote
VOTE: Friend Computer

[ssbm_Kyouko]

FC, the_end, Zekromaster, but they seem obvious. Probably only 1 scum there unless they're just really obvious. That seems too easy if both scum are in that pool

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I mean looking just at those suspects, then seeing the opportunistic FC vote on the_end to put him at L-1 I'd say FC/Zekromaster is the team. Too many nulls to POE it to those 3 though, they're just my top SRs

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It's because people think I literally voted TB for reading his role PM, and not for the reasons detailed in 81
(I think)

What pings me a bit is that neither of the_end or zekromaster are on my wagon rn which makes me think they aren't the scumteam. Lucca looks probably the towniest vote on my wagon with those detailed explanations, but I think he's misinterpreting some key points due to the language barrier

If you're town, just because someone recognizes that you're town doesn't mean that they're not scum.

What I meant is those 2 together aren't the scum

team

. I think 1 scum was on my wagon and 1 scum off it. Wrt to Lucca, I felt like he was towny because he looked like he was suspicious of me and trying to test me. Obviously, if he was testing me and now that I've admitted I noticed, he can't rely on the results, but I can rely on the test to TR him. The problem is with mixed signals. I can't be confident in that read on him.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

In post 171, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:

• My vote was a reaction test because I decided to withhold my reason for voting him when I voted him. I had already noticed the posts I quoted in 81 when I pushed on TB. I didn't come up with those reasons after seeing a bad reaction to my vote.
  
  
  What made you want to withhold those reasons? And what did you gain from the test?

The reasons were weak, so I kept them to myself because I felt like the test would either confirm or disconfirm my suspicion. TB moved from nullscum to scumlean from the test, which is something I've alluded to but not put in these terms before. I use [Town/TR, Townlean, Nulltown, Null, Nullscum, Scumlean, Scum/SR] to categorize my reads, and I put a "lynch line" inside my townleans or between my townleans and nulltowns and will lynch anything below it in D1 situations, with lynch preference given to SRs.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm gonna vote.

VOTE: the_end

Seriously? NEWS FLASH: THERE IS ONLY 2 SCUM!

oh boyyyyyyyyyy

Okay so who's the better lynch now, Zekrom or FC?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I also refuse to sponsor a wagon with both Zeke and FC on it, especially after that l-1 vote which is really garbage

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like Zeke is still scummy but I'm not clearing FC on the basis he's too scummy to be scum, slot needs rope

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh shoot 10 hrs uhh that's at 2 my time. I work tomorrow 11-8 so i have break scheduled at 1 but sometimes it's late.
Gonna have 15 minutes in there within an hour of deadline hopefully
Will only vote FC/zeke/the_end

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm here looks like FC is the lynchso my vote staying, gotta go back to work in a couple though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Why do you think scumreading everyone and having just one townread is scummy? If anything, it's easier for scum to have a bigger number of townreads. It's easier to explain a townread than a scumread, and it can be used as towncred when people die. The thing about him not wanting to get on wagons i'll give you.

Can you do a readslist for me?

I still stand by the readlist in #148.

Also, if he accuses everyone of being scum, he'll basically be open for any lynch. Anyone who is offered for lynch, he can vote without raising suspicions, except his "townread". He also has some nullreads on some people and a townread, which may be both to defend a possible scumpartner (but I'm not sure on this. I think it he wouldn't townread his own partner, but that's how I would play if I was him, and doesn't mean much. Also, kyouko's pretty incospicuous. Him offering to vote for the_end in his last post makes me think they may not be the scumteam) or to avoid scumreading the entire player list, and three of his "scumreads" were people who would've been wagoned on pretty easily (inactives).
Also, some of the reasons for reading scum look constructed, especially his rb scumread, which are mostly based around his want for a lynch and nothing else.


Also, I suggest we don't actively try to lynch FC. I'd be okay with an FC lynch if it happens anyway, feel free to vote for him if you don't know where to place your vote, he's been inactive and basically we were already playing without him, but we'd be risking removing a player before he even starts playing the game, while he may be town (for me, he is still null, but my major scumread was placed somewhere else) and may get replaced with someone who may prove useful for the town.
That's a lot of "may"s, but it's the most likely outcome. Can we please lynch FC only as a last resort?

Also if FC flips scum this post is a scumclaim

[ssbm_Kyouko]

OK i agree with rb town but confirming Lucca? Explain?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

No use speculating who was shot or why at this point, all it will do is draw out PRs imo. We'll know more another day

[ssbm_Kyouko]

OK i agree with rb town but confirming Lucca? Explain?

stop pr baiting.

I'm assuming you did something to cause him to TR you unless he's an idiot cop, and I know he's not because I've read a game where he was cop

[ssbm_Kyouko]

OK i agree with rb town but confirming Lucca? Explain?

stop pr baiting.

I'm assuming you did something to cause him to TR you unless he's an idiot cop, and I know he's not because I've read a game where he was cop

I'm not a cop.

I also don't think I've been a cop on this site.

You replaced into a cop slot in Plotinus's Newbie "Zooborns", which is the first game I read when I came to the site. Unless I'm remembering wrong, but back then you had a bugs bunny avatar?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Because it's possible they are a scumteam fmpov and I'm not going to keep quiet about my opinions

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: SSBM

I initially voted for sofiel for his last post of the previous day phase. However, I can see where it can come from town as well. I want to wait for him to show up.

I absolutely do not like ssbm. I don't like how he is role baiting me and I don't like how he has been jumping on the most confinement wagons most of the game.

"Role baiting"
You

literally confirmed

a slot to be town, don't act like I've baited you. It's frustrating to see, especially after reading zooborns

[ssbm_Kyouko]

OK so the end and zekro were both L-2 when FC voted the end. When I voted FC and he gained some traction (Sofiel had been parked on FC a while). FC wagon was counter to whichever of the_end/zekro is scum, assuming town doesnt have it's head up it's ass wagoning 2 town and letting coast chill between the wagons/on vanity wagons. TB moved off of the L-1 the_end to vote FC. TB isn't the lynch today obviously but I want everyone to know this for later if the_end is scum. I also led the FC wagon (even though Sofiel was already there) so that should be remembered if the_end is scum.

the_end and Lucca both moved off of the Zeke wagon to the FC wagon. This indicates FC was not a counter to Zeke unless one of them was bussing Zeke. Lucca can't be bussing Zeke because he can only be scum with TB, but it's still possible the_end was bussing Zeke. I'm feeling the_end for scum from this. Possibly with Sofiel but I think the_end is more likely

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: the_end

[ssbm_Kyouko]

UNVOTE: looks like I read the vcs from d1 wrong

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Guess it means FC wagon would have been a counter to Zeke
I know TB already said intent to hammer while you were l-2 and you said you had nothing to add but I'm going to redeclare that I have intent to hammer Zeke

[ssbm_Kyouko]

okay so, looking at the wagon I see 4 players on Zeke and then there's me, rb, and Aeronaut.
I'm town, and my best TRs are rb and Aeronaut, but mostly rb. This means that if Zeke is scum, then either I'm wrong about 1 of Aeronaut or rb, or scum is bussing him right now. Lucca and TB I think are town after all, which just leaves the_end and Sofiel. Zeke is voting the_end which would be a double bus scenario which seems like a bad strategy.

If Zeke is scum it's with either Sofiel or Aeronaut imo

If Zeke is town, that means that unless the team is Aero/rb that at least one of Sofiel and the_end is scum either with the other or with one of Aero/rb. Pretty sure rb is town here as well

If Zeke is town, there are 2 scum in [Aeronaut, Sofiel, the_end]

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Zeke was online today (Jan 9th) at 1:20pm [UTC-8], and didn't post anywhere else. If I see they logged in again since then and they don't post any last thoughts I'll hammer. If they post last thoughts I may reconsider but probably not, I think after thinking about it and making my last post that his scumflip puts us in a good place to find the last scum and his townflip puts us in a good place to find the team.

This and my last post rely on rb and I being town though so I'd recommend a cop checking one of us

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Well Zeke was online an hour ago and didn't post anywhere, not even to say he's on his phone and will come back later so
VOTE: Zekromaster
Should be hammer

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm down to no lynch today but we should talk about scumreads first I think, or at least Lucca should make his opinions known

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What makes you think Lucca is confirmed? Are you assuming TB docced him?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

OK I guess it's fair, but knowing we have a doc that means we have an investigator whether it's tracker or copying so we should keep in mind no lynch is an option to let us get another night of results in before lynching.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I say we massclaim popcorn style, Lucca picks who starts since he's conftown, and he also claims last because he's conftown, so if he's PR and scum try to fakeclaim we'll catch them because he claims last, unless a scum is the 2nd to last to claim then they'll know to claim vt, same if the team are the 2nd and 3rd from last to claim. Forgot earlier doc can clear his target in this setup. If we no kill Lucca just dies and we lose this chance to have a massclaim situation that is pretty good for town.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Actually fuck popcorn style, have Lucca determine the order in which everyone will claim

[ssbm_Kyouko]

An alternative is we could have Lucca select a claim order for tomorrow and then we no lynch after that and massclaim in the order he chose in the morning

[ssbm_Kyouko]

But I feel like scum could manipulate that

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Town doesn't fakeclaim to take the heat off the real PR, the point of claiming now is to either confirm a.second townie or make scum go 1v1 with the PR. If PR is not Lucca and we correctly lynch we'll still have a conftown tomorrow because scum can only kill one player

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That's the thing though, by claiming like this we discourage scum from fakeclaiming, and we'll either come out of this with 1or 2 conftown, or with the choice to lynch between 2 players. If there's a cop with a living innocent we may end up with even more conftown. Claiming is the play at this juncture, does anyone disagree?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So the end claims next, then me aero rb lucca

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VT here, aero next

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Okey dokey rb your turn

[ssbm_Kyouko]

waiting on dat rb claim and dat lucca claim

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Just need Lucca claim then

[ssbm_Kyouko]

At least aero/rb aren't the team that would have been the worst case

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Lucca can still be PR which is what I suspected all along and why I wanted him to claim last, but we'll see

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Your claim makes a difference, we need to know if you're PR or not. If not someone lied about their claim and we still need to wait for it

As it is it's probably one of aero/rb with one of the end/sofiel

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Assuming you're PR, that is

[ssbm_Kyouko]

is it really going to take 5 days to finish claiming for 6 people >_>

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If Lucca claims VT I'll wait for one post from each player to claim PR before I ignore any future claims

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Just need confirmation from Lucca that he's tracker

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Alright so that means NK was on Lucca, going back to D1 to look for what led scum to the tracker so soon

[ssbm_Kyouko]

pretty sure the team is sofiel/aero. Looks like the Lucca kill was to keep the 3 mislynches alive (Zeke/FC/the_end), I don't think scum could have gotten a PR read on him from what he posted

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Nope I'm VT not a PR. Aero should have claimed PR, but he's scum I'm sure of it based on that Lucca NK target.

At work but will expand more.

expand dong please, also why would you want Sofiel over Aeronaut? Who's your second choice for Sofiel's partner, assuming he's scum?

Temporarily holding off on eliminating rb/aero team, however unlikely it seems. My initial thought was that rb was softing PR when he said that Lucca would claim VT which is why I held off on giving thoughts until Lucca claimed. I think the fact that this game has so few posts is indicative that there are scum in the SE/IC pool and I know I'm town which leaves one or both of rb/aero. When rereading I noticed most of Aeronaut's attention was focused on pressuring FC/Zeke/the_end, and when he did address Sofiel it wasn't really directed towards sorting the slot. I saw light defense of weak Sofiel stances by Aero when rb said he'd like to see stronger stances out of Sofiel. I also think Sofiel was too willing to lynch anyone D1 without really giving consideration to which of his scumreads were actually scum. He expressed he would swap votes well before deadline and restated that closer to deadline (the latter is fine, but the former was scummy).

@Aero/rb - before either of you vote I think town deserves to see serious consideration of the remaining scumteams fypov. It's only a 15 page game or so, but idk what your current game loads are like. I know rb has irl shit happening now but show your work if you would be so kind

Lucca, assuming Sofiel is scum, who do you think his partner would be and why? Take your time on this question if you need to.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Spoiler: Colored VCs for reference

Vote Count 1.1

the_end (2) -

Friend Computer

, ssbm_Kyouko
rb (1) - Sofiel

Friend Computer

(1) - Aeronaut

Not voting (5) -

Generalcamo, Political Clout

, rb, the_end,

Zekromaster

Vote Count 1.2

the_end (3) -

Friend Computer

, ssbm_Kyouko, rb
rb (1) -

Zekromaster

Friend Computer

(1) - Aeronaut

Political Clout

(1) - the_end

Not voting (3) -

Generalcamo, Political Clout,

Sofiel

Vote Count 1.3

the_end (2) -

Friend Computer

, rb

Friend Computer

(2) - Aeronaut, Sofiel

ThinkBig

(2) - ssbm_Kyouko,

lucca261

rb (1) -

Zekromaster

Sofiel (1) - the_end
ssbm_Kyouko (1) -

ThinkBig

Not voting (0) -

Vote Count 1.4

the_end (2) -

Friend Computer

, rb

Friend Computer

(1) - Aeronaut
Sofiel (1) - the_end
ssbm_Kyouko (1) -

ThinkBig

Zekromaster

(1) - ssbm_Kyouko,

Not voting (3) -

lucca261

, Sofiel,

Zekromaster

Vote Count 1.5

ssbm_Kyouko (3) -

ThinkBig, Friend Computer, lucca261

the_end (2) - rb,

Zekromaster

Zekromaster

(2) - ssbm_Kyouko, Aeronaut
Sofiel (1) - the_end

Not voting (1) - Sofiel

Vote Count 1.6

ssbm_Kyouko (3) -

ThinkBig, Friend Computer, lucca261

the_end (2) - rb,

Zekromaster

Zekromaster

(2) - ssbm_Kyouko, Aeronaut
Sofiel (1) - the_end

Friend Computer

(1) - Sofiel

Not voting (0) -

Vote Count 1.7

Zekromaster

(3) - ssbm_Kyouko, Aeronaut,

lucca261

the_end (2) - rb,

Zekromaster

ssbm_Kyouko (1) -

Friend Computer

Sofiel (1) - the_end

Friend Computer

(1) - Sofiel

Not voting (1) -

ThinkBig

Vote Count 1.8

the_end (4) - rb,

Zekromaster, ThinkBig, Friend Computer

[L-1]

Zekromaster

(3) - ssbm_Kyouko, Aeronaut,

lucca261

Sofiel (1) - the_end

Friend Computer

(1) - Sofiel

Not voting (0) -

Vote Count 1.9

the_end (3) - rb,

Zekromaster, Friend Computer

Zekromaster

(2) - Aeronaut,

lucca261

Friend Computer

(2) - Sofiel, ssbm_Kyouko
Sofiel (1) - the_end

Not voting (1) -

ThinkBig

Vote Count 1.10

the_end (3) - rb,

Zekromaster, Friend Computer

Friend Computer

(3) - Sofiel, ssbm_Kyouko, the_end

Zekromaster

(2) - Aeronaut,

lucca261

Not voting (1) -

ThinkBig

Vote Count 1.11

Friend Computer

(5) - Sofiel, ssbm_Kyouko, the_end,

ThinkBig, lucca261

[LYNCH]

the_end (3) - rb,

Zekromaster, Friend Computer

Zekromaster

(1) - Aeronaut

Not voting (0) -

Vote Count 2.1

Zekromaster

(3) - Aeronaut, Sofiel, the_end
Sofiel (1) -

lucca261

ssbm_Kyouko (1) -

ThinkBig

Not voting (3) - rb, ssbm_Kyouko,

Zekromaster

Vote Count 2.2

Zekromaster

(3) - Aeronaut, Sofiel,

lucca261

ssbm_Kyouko (2) -

ThinkBig,

the_end
the_end (1) - ssbm_Kyouko

Not voting (2) - rb,

Zekromaster

Vote Count 2.3

Zekromaster

(4) - Sofiel,

lucca261, ThinkBig,

the_end [L-1]
the_end (1) -

Zekromaster

Not voting (3) - Aeronaut, rb, ssbm_Kyouko,

Vote Count 2.4

Zekromaster

(5) - Sofiel,

lucca261, ThinkBig

, the_end, ssbm_Kyouko [LYNCH]

the_end (1) -

Zekromaster

Not voting (2) - Aeronaut, rb

Note: Picked the darkest Green I could find for marking townflips in VCs (to avoid confusion with mod color), just putting these here to look at for anyone else interested

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Unfortunately rb going nowhere last night probably doesn't tell us anything about his alignment. I was thinking the only way he would be seen killing if he was scum was if his partner was as unsuspected as he is (Aeronaut). I thought more about it and I wouldn't put it past rb to have hard bussed his newb scummate from the get-go if the team is rb/the_end. That would be done for towncred and if the goal was to gain towncred to win in 3-way then I think he wouldn't risk killing last night and would let the more suspicious scum kill. At least, if I were in that hypothetical position as rb I would want the more suspicious maf to perform the kill to avoid getting the universally TRed member caught by the tracker.

Softing PR by saying Lucca will claim VT (despite the fact Lucca softed tracker when he told Doc to stay on his previous target) was weird too.

Back to Aero/Sofiel, I think Aero is the only player that TRed Sofiel this game despite minimal interactions between their slots and low effort posting from Sofiel.

Sofiel, who is rb's partner and why is rb scum?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Aero somehow avoided being on both the lynch wagons despite consistently SRing both of the lynches

[ssbm_Kyouko]

the_end appears to be pretty probably town that was being set up to be mislynched upon rereading thread, taking notes on the 6 remaining scumteams, and tallying points on associations for each team. He's also really trying to sort Sofiel early on.
That leaves rb/aero, rb/sofiel, and aero/sofiel.

VOTE: Sofiel

After a full reread I still think it's Aero/Sofiel and I was reading as though everyone could be scum with everyone (besides myself and lucca ofc).
I keep forgetting that lucca dies tonight, keep holding stuff back thinking scum will decide whether or not they want me alive tomorrow based on it

here's an unformatted dump of my reread notes if anyone is curious, some might not make sense without context

Spoiler:

rb/Aeronaut--+--- (-4)
-rb jokes with Aero about his IC color
-Aero returns the joke
-Aero didn't notice whether rb had voted or not. Mafia are very aware of their partners
-Aero misread what rb said about voting te
-aero/rb agree to cooperate with one another after aero's readslist
-rb pressures Aero's read on sofiel
-aero questioning rb for pushing te
-rb/aero pushing each other in MyLo

rb/the_end: -------++-- (-7)
-the_end opens lightly SRing rb
-te asks why i didn't vote rb
-rb votes te for saying something scum would say (not specifc)
-rb is sad that we don't think te is scum
-rb says te is scum b/c "He isn't even trying to put out content and his only vote is just a joke per his own statements."
-rb is unconvinced by lucca towncasing te
-rb pushes te's readslist
-te agrees w/ rb about sofiel
-te doesnt care that tb is chainsawing rb for attacking te
-te keeps up on sorting rb
-rb never wavered on voting te

rb/Sofiel: +++-+ (+3)
-Sofiel Opens RVS with rb vote
-Sofiel addresses rb in RVS with smalltalk
-rb replies with another joke
-sofiel paranoid of rb declaring reads and unvotes rb b/c Zeke voted him
-Sofiel entirely glosses over Aeronaut/rb in 88 readslist and mentions everyone else
-rb coaches sofiel when sof votes Zeke
-rb pushes on sofiel's weak stances
-rb defends sofiel's behavior at deadline
-sofiel expresses paranoia of Aero for getting TRed but doesn't do the same of rb (ignores rb)

Aeronaut/the_end: ++++----+--+-+ (+0)
-the_end doesn't comment on Aeronaut in his opening post
-Aero soft defends te not voting anyone
-Aero maybe sets up scum!Zeke and town!te
-Aero misread what rb said about voting te
-Aero notices te critiqueing sofiel and defends sofiel
-Aero tries to guide te into sring me
-te defends himself in reaction to aero SRing him
-te also pushes on sofiel
-aero discredits zeke pushing te b/c zeke copied my case
-Aero plants seed of scum!te/scum!Zeke in my head
-Aero reiterates scumread on te after te defends
-Aero questioning rb for pushing te
-Aero again defending te b/c people are copying rb's reasons
-Aero accuses te of scum after townflip of FC
-te comes onto zeke right after sofiel/aero

Aeronaut/Sofiel: +-+-+++++- (+4)
-Sofiel entirely glosses over Aeronaut/rb in 88 readslist and mentions everyone else
-Asks sofiel about sof's rb unvote
-Aero also coaches sofiel in 128 but with IC color too
-Aero tries to guide Sofiel into scumreading me
-aero defends sofiel's weak stances
-sofiel mimics aero's readslist mostly
-Aero pushing for same lynches as sofiel
-Aero goes onto zeke soon after Aero
-sofiel expresses paranoia of Aero for getting TRed but doesn't do the same of rb

Sofiel/the_End:
-te doesn't comment on Sofiel voting rb
-te asks sofiel questions about his rb read, genuine sorting
-te accuses Sofiel of getting agitated in sof's 113, more sorting of the slot
-te comes onto zeke right after sofiel/aero

Who pushed who?
rb - te, sofiel
Aero - Zeke3, FC2, Kyouko
Sofiel - Zeke, FC, te
te - zeke

who defended who?
rb - Sofiel, Kyouko
Aero - sofiel
Sofiel - rb
te - Sofiel

Readlists:
rb:

Aero:
town: Sofiel, rb
null: TB, Kyouko, Lucca
scum: te, FC, Zeke

Sofiel:
town: Lucca
null: TB, SSBM
scum: FC, te, Zeke

town: rb, aero, ssbm
null: tb, lucca, zeke
scum: FC, TE

te:
town: Kyouko
null: TB/Lucca
scum: FC, Zeke, Aero, Sofiel, rb

[ssbm_Kyouko]

UNVOTE:
Gonna let everyone talk but I still want sofiel

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Well aero and the end had a lot of points both ways on the posts I tallied today, but it looks more like if anything, aero tried to make it look like the_end was scum with him. Although I think aero SRed the_end for a while but didn't hammer because Zeke and FC were on his wagon

[ssbm_Kyouko]

In post 442, lucca261 wrote:
So, wait. Can everybody say their top scumread? I'm reading it wrong or everyone's top scumread is Sofiel. This concerns me.

Kyouko. I still want to hear RB's answer before I elaborate, though, because he has yet to explain it.

I don't see how rb's answer to that question affects your scumread on me, unless you're saying I'm scum because preflip association to scum!rb, in which case rb would be your top SR, so I don't buy that your read on me is genuine atm.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't see how;

So, as I've said, in a newbie game, there's no room for scum to fake claim a PR because it's far too easy to get CCed.

I've gotten away with fake CCing as scum in a newbie. Claimed cop when the tracker outed a guilty on me (doctor was flipped) and won the 1v1 in LyLo

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I feel like the current VC reinforces the theory one of aero/rb is scum with one of te/Sofiel. No reason for scum to bus here which leaves rb's only partner as aero

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Again bussing doesn't make sense here so I don't think rb can be scum here

VOTE: Aero
Maybe with the end, that post explaining Sofiel/rb team is a huge stretch

[ssbm_Kyouko]

so it's either te/aero or sofiel/aero. town!Aero wouldn't forget it's mylo and put rb at L-1, then point out it's MyLo and not unvote.

I'm posting and not hammering, rb can only be scum if I'm scum because otherwise his partner is currently bussing him to L-1 for no reason. I know I'm not scum so rb is conftown to me, this is an easy win now because rb and I are confirmed to each other tomorrow, and if scum decides to kill one of us instead of lucca who is conf to everyone, rb's or my townflip will confirm the surviving player as town. Either way we go into tomorrow in 4 way with 2 conftown and te/sofiel.

Vote Aero.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh, well I forgot we're in MYLO.

Ugh, well either way, any scumteam I see includes RB in it, and if I'm being honest, there's no way it's not rb/ssbm. This is pretty clear scumplay.

If it's clear you can explain it so go ahead

[ssbm_Kyouko]

SSBB was Lucca's biggest scumread of the day, and that kill makes WAY more sense for him

I would have killed you N1 because rb was defending me and you're the other experienced player. Killing off the most experienced players is standard strategy in newbie games because newbies have a harder time scumhunting.

Maybe the reason TB wasn't killed when you noticed his PR crumb is because you expected someone else might have noticed it and protected him? Scum can't have a roleblocker unless Lucca is faking Tracker when he's actually cop and I don't see any reason for him to do that. 2 Goon team would know it's either JK, BP/Tracker, or Doc/Tracker. Only a BP would soft their PR that way imo, and I think players as experienced as Aero or rb would draw the same conclusion I did if they were on a 2 goon scumteam. It makes sense to aim for someone else if you think the BP is softing. That would explain why TB wasn't shot despite Aero having noticed TB's PR softing. Aero as IC would definitely take charge over the decision of who to shoot when on a team with a newbie (Sofiel/the_end), so I'm going to comb over D1 for why Aero might have wanted to shoot Lucca

[ssbm_Kyouko]

30 minutes left guys.

If Friend flips Town, this is scum.

Makes sense if you're scum with Sofiel and you believe Think is BP or going to be protected

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Lucca also displayed willingness to alter his read on me during D1 while we had a very long discussion about my motives and how he was misinterpreting things. Why would I kill a towny that was reversing their SR on me?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

more specifically, my motives behind my TB vote and how he was misinterpreting how my reads were progressing

[ssbm_Kyouko]

SSBB was Lucca's biggest scumread of the day, and that kill makes WAY more sense for him

I would have killed you N1 because rb was defending me and you're the other experienced player. Killing off the most experienced players is standard strategy in newbie games because newbies have a harder time scumhunting.

Maybe the reason TB wasn't killed when you noticed his PR crumb is because you expected someone else might have noticed it and protected him? Scum can't have a roleblocker unless Lucca is faking Tracker when he's actually cop and I don't see any reason for him to do that. 2 Goon team would know it's either JK, BP/Tracker, or Doc/Tracker. Only a BP would soft their PR that way imo, and I think players as experienced as Aero or rb would draw the same conclusion I did if they were on a 2 goon scumteam. It makes sense to aim for someone else if you think the BP is softing. That would explain why TB wasn't shot despite Aero having noticed TB's PR softing. Aero as IC would definitely take charge over the decision of who to shoot when on a team with a newbie (Sofiel/the_end), so I'm going to comb over D1 for why Aero might have wanted to shoot Lucca

so, like you're proving why that wouldn't be the kill if I were scum this game

.

You know I saw the crumb; it makes absolutely no sense to shoot someone who I didn't think was a PR over someone that I thought was.

I'm proving why TB wouldn't be killed if you were scum with a newbie. I think Aero/Sofiel explains the Lucca NK attempt after rereading Lucca's D1.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm telling you that TB would be dead and gone. There is zero reason I would want to keep a crumbed PR around.

This literally cannot be the case unless rb is currently being bussed.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I've explained why you would keep a crumbed PR around as scum. If you were town you would acknowledge that thought process.

Also, what are you asking "when?" to?

pedit: The "why" is simple: If you would have truly killed TB as scum (you wouldn't, but I'm assuming town!Aero POV to explain why your logic can't be coming from town!Aero), that makes you town because Lucca was targeted instead. I'm also town. Lucca is confirmed town. There is one scum in [Aero, rb] based on their interactions in recent pages, specifically around massclaim. That makes rb scum if you're town, and since Lucca and I are also town, that means rb is being bussed by either Sofiel or the_end, because there are 2 scum in the game.

pedit2: I seriously doubt rb will come back to this game aside from to prodge

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Consider this as well: If Lucca wasn't crumbing PR and rb is scum, why would he kill Lucca and not Aero? Aero is the clear NK target because rb was widely TRed and could coast off that without much effort if the IC were gone

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Because I townread both on day 1; why kill me on N1 when you could easily let me steer the town wrong?

You townread both of who?

I repeat, what was your question in 519 when you asked me "when?"

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Plus we've already established that the team is not Sofiel/the_end because there is at least one scum in Aero/rb from everyone's pov, and fmpov there is exactly 1 scum in aero/rb and it's you Aero

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Because I townread both on day 1; why kill me on N1 when you could easily let me steer the town wrong?

You townread both of who?

I repeat, what was your question in 519 when you asked me "when?"

I townread you and RB on day 1, so there was no reason to kill me; if I'd been hard SRing him and you D1, I'd be gone.

This is where I'm at.

{NT}Sofiel [S: 38*][T: 47, 116]
{NT}rb (SE) [T: 118]

{N}ThinkBig(SE)
{N}ssbm_Kyouko (SE) [T: 43][S: 75]
{N}lucca261 [T: 84, 89][S: 93*, 118*]

{NS}the_end [S: RL*]
{NS}Friend Computer [S: 101*]

{LS}Zekromaster [S: 41*, 103*]

Spoiler: ***

38* This kind of stuck me as scum feeling the waters to see what is ok/not ok to do.
41* Ok... but you're going to efforts to show us that you're active, but aren't actually doing anything to help the game move forward.
93* willing to sheep
RL* Readslist; I really dislike how a lot the scum reads in this list, he later on sort of retracts by saying "I'm not sure"
101* I feel like this is somebody who read a lot of the last 2 or so pages, picked an argument, and then repeated it to look town
103* This post had three "I agree"s and one self defense for lurking. Nothing post to look busy.
118* Baseless/meaningless questions

Spoiler: Key

Conftown - {CT}

Town - {T}

LeanTown - {LT}

NullTown - {NT}

Null - {N}

NullScum - {NS}

LeanScum - {LS}

Scum - {S}

ConfScum - {CS}

I was definitely a null for you d1, you never shifted that to a TR, just double checked myself

When did Lucca townread you on D1?

I didn't say he TRed me D1, I said he displayed a willingness to adjust his read on me.

Lucca also displayed willingness to alter his read on me during D1 while we had a very long discussion about my motives and how he was misinterpreting things. Why would I kill a towny that was reversing their SR on me?

Town players that are willing to reconsider when they're SRing town are dangerous to scum, that's another reason why a scumteam that

didn't

include me would target Lucca for the N1 kill.

This is where he showed such a willingness:

Spoiler: Progression of Lucca's read on me

I get the feeling lucca is very suspicious of me and hesitates to say it. I felt like he saw my reaction test and decided to try one of his own on me when he offered to sheep me on someone who he thought was null.

I don't hesitate to say that at all. I was waiting to see if you were going to interact with me about my vote, but you isn't so interested. So, let's get going:

- My first reason to suspect kyouko was his vote at think. Not the vote itself (that I would hate if it was serious, but since it was a reaction test, it's ok), but the "case" he made on Think's earlier posts, compared to a response he gave me. I quote:

pedit:
@Lucca - As for whether my vote was a reaction test: yes it was, but I had a real reason to suspect him, it was just a weak reason. I was just about to ask you what you thought about that exchange. Do you think ThinkBig has been so towny this game that my vote should not be on him?

My point is: he had a real reason, even if he had a weak reason to vote him. his words. To me, it appears that reason he's talking about it's the answer to my question. But then, after voting him for the answer, he went there and posted a "case" based on his earlier posts, at #81. I don't get this. All of Think's posts were available for him to do that "case" earlier, when he voted him for the answer. So why he said his vote was a reaction test based only on the answer? Also, I thought he was cleverly asking me if I was open to a Think's lynch. So I went and voted for him.

The reason for the vote is easy. If he is town on that exchange with Think, and even later, with Zekrom, he seems to be the type of player who finds the tiniest crack, and pushes on it, to create interaction between players. So I went and voted for a null player. If you look at my post where I say I'm willing to sheep and call him null, it's a small post, with one line. I knew I was being scummy. I expected Kyouko, especially !townkyouko, to push on it, given that he seems to vote for people over the tiniest stuff, to get a reaction. But he only commented on it.

I also voted Think for his own reaction. I thought his reaction, over 1 vote, on the early stage of the game, to be weirdly big. But if someone voted me for the PM stuff, I think I would've been kinda mad, too. I can see this coming from both town and scum. So I voted him, to develop a better read on him.

---

The second reason that I suspect kyouko it's his change at voting. He, on #95:

I decided to vote him, but instead of explaining I decided to test him with the vote. My vote on him is real...

and on #102:

Also finish catch up and comment on my ThinkBig exchange

seemed both happy staying voting Think, and testing the waters for a possible wagon on him. But then, on #105 he suddenly changes his vote for Zekrom. for that, let's go to his answers to Aero:

Thinkbig may have disagreed with why I was SRing him, but I don't think his response to my vote was towny at all. A town reaction would be to disregard something that nobody else would follow. I feel like nobody is reading the entirety of that exchange, because you're probably the third person who thinks my original reason for voting TB was actually because I thought he read about daytalk in his own role PM. I explained the reason I voted him after I was done testing him. Also I strongly disagree with the bolded, if scum just defends themselves and never hunts for "scum" they would lose a lot more games than they do

That's not true. I asked you if it was a reaction test, or if you had voted Think seriously for his comment to me. Your answer: "As for whether my vote was a reaction test: yes it was, but I had a real reason to suspect him, it was just a weak reason". Here is you clearly saying that you voted him for that comment.

Also, on this answer to Aero he seems very suspicious aboout Think, saying that the response to his vote was not towny. I had just voted Think. If you think a player response to his vote wasn't towny, when the same player gets another vote to react against, would you vote another player so quickly?

VOTE: Kyouko

---

going to say my thoughts on this page, as well as my reads on each player on another post.

Thinkbig may have disagreed with why I was SRing him, but I don't think his response to my vote was towny at all. A town reaction would be to disregard something that nobody else would follow. I feel like nobody is reading the entirety of that exchange, because you're probably the third person who thinks my original reason for voting TB was actually because I thought he read about daytalk in his own role PM. I explained the reason I voted him after I was done testing him. Also I strongly disagree with the bolded, if scum just defends themselves and never hunts for "scum" they would lose a lot more games than they do

That's not true. I asked you if it was a reaction test, or if you had voted Think seriously for his comment to me. Your answer: "As for whether my vote was a reaction test: yes it was, but I had a real reason to suspect him, it was just a weak reason". Here is you clearly saying that you voted him for that comment.

VOTE: Kyouko

Yeah that's definitely not me saying I voted TB for his comment about daytalk directed at you. I told you my vote was a reaction test. I also told you I had a real reason to suspect him, but didn't tell you what it was in that post. My reason for originally voting him is in 81. The comment about daytalk was meant to bait a reaction out of him

It's because people think I literally voted TB for reading his role PM, and not for the reasons detailed in 81
(I think)

What pings me a bit is that neither of the_end or zekromaster are on my wagon rn which makes me think they aren't the scumteam. Lucca looks probably the towniest vote on my wagon with those detailed explanations, but I think he's misinterpreting some key points due to the language barrier

It's because people think I literally voted TB for reading his role PM, and not for the reasons detailed in 81
(I think)

What pings me a bit is that neither of the_end or zekromaster are on my wagon rn which makes me think they aren't the scumteam. Lucca looks probably the towniest vote on my wagon with those detailed explanations, but I think he's misinterpreting some key points due to the language barrier

What points to you think I'm misinterpreting? Only the PM vote? Or there is something else on the "case" I made on you that you think I was misinterpreting?

Not much has really happened but it's only page 7. That's a fair clarification. My wagon sux btw

Meh. The only scummy vote on your wagon, given what has ocurred on this page, is Friend, I think. I want an explanation from him ASAP.

--

@end, he voted for SSBM.

It's because people think I literally voted TB for reading his role PM, and not for the reasons detailed in 81
(I think)

What pings me a bit is that neither of the_end or zekromaster are on my wagon rn which makes me think they aren't the scumteam. Lucca looks probably the towniest vote on my wagon with those detailed explanations, but I think he's misinterpreting some key points due to the language barrier

What points to you think I'm misinterpreting? Only the PM vote? Or there is something else on the "case" I made on you that you think I was misinterpreting?

Gonna outline what I think you're misinterpreting below. Making this from phone so it may not be as well organized as it should be for a wallpost

I get the feeling lucca is very suspicious of me and hesitates to say it. I felt like he saw my reaction test and decided to try one of his own on me when he offered to sheep me on someone who he thought was null.

I don't hesitate to say that at all. I was waiting to see if you were going to interact with me about my vote, but you isn't so interested. So, let's get going:

- My first reason to suspect kyouko was his vote at think. Not the vote itself (that I would hate if it was serious, but since it was a reaction test, it's ok), but the "case" he made on Think's earlier posts, compared to a response he gave me. I quote:

pedit:
@Lucca - As for whether my vote was a reaction test: yes it was, but I had a real reason to suspect him, it was just a weak reason. I was just about to ask you what you thought about that exchange. Do you think ThinkBig has been so towny this game that my vote should not be on him?

My point is: he had a real reason, even if he had a weak reason to vote him. his words. To me, it appears that reason he's talking about it's the answer to my question. But then, after voting him for the answer, he went there and posted a "case" based on his earlier posts, at #81. I don't get this. All of Think's posts were available for him to do that "case" earlier, when he voted him for the answer.

So why he said his vote was a reaction test based only on the answer?

Also, I thought he was cleverly asking me if I was open to a Think's lynch. So I went and voted for him.

The reason for the vote is easy. If he is town on that exchange with Think, and even later, with Zekrom, he seems to be the type of player who finds the tiniest crack, and pushes on it, to create interaction between players. So I went and voted for a null player. If you look at my post where I say I'm willing to sheep and call him null, it's a small post, with one line. I knew I was being scummy. I expected Kyouko, especially !townkyouko, to push on it, given that he seems to vote for people over the tiniest stuff, to get a reaction. But he only commented on it.

---

The second reason that I suspect kyouko it's his change at voting. He, on #95:

I decided to vote him, but instead of explaining I decided to test him with the vote. My vote on him is real...

and on #102:

Also finish catch up and comment on my ThinkBig exchange

seemed both happy staying voting Think, and testing the waters for a possible wagon on him

. But then, on #105 he suddenly changes his vote for Zekrom. for that, let's go to his answers to Aero:

Thinkbig may have disagreed with why I was SRing him, but I don't think his response to my vote was towny at all. A town reaction would be to disregard something that nobody else would follow. I feel like nobody is reading the entirety of that exchange, because you're probably the third person who thinks my original reason for voting TB was actually because I thought he read about daytalk in his own role PM. I explained the reason I voted him after I was done testing him. Also I strongly disagree with the bolded, if scum just defends themselves and never hunts for "scum" they would lose a lot more games than they do

That's not true. I asked you if it was a reaction test, or if you had voted Think seriously for his comment to me. Your answer: "As for whether my vote was a reaction test: yes it was, but I had a real reason to suspect him, it was just a weak reason".

Here is you clearly saying that you voted him for that comment

.

Also, on this answer to Aero he seems very suspicious aboout Think, saying that the response to his vote was not towny. I had just voted Think. If you think a player response to his vote wasn't towny, when the same player gets another vote to react against, would you vote another player so quickly?

VOTE: Kyouko

---

going to say my thoughts on this page, as well as my reads on each player on another post.

Going to address the bolded in order.

• My vote was a reaction test because I decided to withhold my reason for voting him when I voted him. I had already noticed the posts I quoted in 81 when I pushed on TB. I didn't come up with those reasons after seeing a bad reaction to my vote.
• 102 was directed at the_end who had posted something on a partial catch-up up to page 3 I believe. I told them to finish their catch-up and comment on my exchange because they were the player I thought TB was chainsawing for, and I wasn't sure if it was because they were scum together or if it was TB trying to pocket the_end. the_end put gave weak stances on both of us that implied he either didn't fully understand my 81 or hadn't read it. I wanted to hear what he thought of my accusing TB of chainsawing him, so I told him to finish catching up and then comment on it. And of course I was happy voting TB at the time, he was my top SR at the time.
• That was not me clearly stating I'd voted him for the comment about daytalk, that was me explaining in my answer that your question wasn't worded correctly because the answer wasn't as simple as the closed-ended question suggested. I clarified that I
  both
  had a reason to vote him
  and
  that my vote was reaction testing him.

VOTE: Zekromaster

So I reread some old posts of mine, and some kyouko posts, and I can see that maybe I was overanalysing some stuff, especially the reaction test. I still think Kyouko is kinda scummy, but liked his interactions with me enough to unvote him and go to my other scumread.

I don't like Zekrom scumread of End. I feel like its inconsistent with his early game, and he doesn't believe it, just saw other people say it and repetead just to get under the radar. So I'm happy putting him at L2

my second readslist:

TOWN
- aeronaut: liking his posts. he is seeing this game from a town point of view, and is trying to look for scum. liked his exchange with Kyouko, and he seems to be effectively reading the thread and trying to look for scum, instead of just asking questions without any followup.
- end: I'm at the point where i'm thinking end's wagon was clearly a mislynch bait. he is clear-headed, analyse things and seems to think for himself, without sheeping other player thoughts.
- rb: after the strong start, he seemed to stopped scumhunting, and I don't know why his vote is still on end. he could be more present. I feel like his posts are asking why kyouko is the leading wagon, and trying to lynch end.
- sofiel: mostly by POE. sofiel stepped up. his posts seem to be looking for scum. but his #220 concerns me. especially where the part where he says: "hey, if Friend doesn't work tonight, let's look at Zekrom tomorrow" this is lining up lynches, and feels like scum that knows friend will flip town.
- think: his vote on end concerns me, and the unvote exactly when things started to change makes me feel uneasy. he is going with the flow.
- friend: his wagon makes me think he is townier. it feels like he made a bad vote, and now scum are trying to use the vote to make a counterwagon to zekrom.
- kyouko: still think he's scummy, but he's not getting lynched tonight. his posts feel like a mixed bag, and he seems to change wagons everytime the wagon he is is gaining force. that's a strange mindset for a town player.
- zekrom: everything makes sense if he's scum. he's coasting, trying to look town, parroting other people opinions...and it's crazy how much unspoken resistance there is to his wagon.

---

@zekrom, what is your view on the friend vote right now?
@friend, any reasons for your vote at end beside the readlist?
@end, can I interest you with a Zekro lynch?
@aero, what's your read on Kyouko?

By the end of the day Lucca was reconsidering his SR on me to the point that he wasn't willing to lynch me today because I had a strange mindset for town

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Plus we've already established that the team is not Sofiel/the_end because there is at least one scum in Aero/rb from everyone's pov, and fmpov there is exactly 1 scum in aero/rb and it's you Aero

can you explain to me why wouldn't it be Sofiel/End?

It can't be both of them because of how rb and aeronaut jumped at each other's throats at the end of the massclaim sequence:

Spoiler:

Which means we're between Sofiel, the_end, ssbm_Kyouko. I'm in the middle of catchup for a lot of stuff, but thinking it's te

more tonight

Nope I'm VT not a PR. Aero should have claimed PR, but he's scum I'm sure of it based on that Lucca NK target.

At work but will expand more.

Ssbm is town, lucca is town, I'm town.

Aero/sofiel/the_end - last 2 scum are in there

Yea, so despite RB's initial D1 stuff, I don't see much he's done in the way of solving the game. There were weak pushes on TE and a minimal amount of gameplay, but in the last game I played with him, he was this town-MVP player who solved the game almost immediately. This is the game I'm talking about.

I assumed he would eventually kick it into gear around D2 or today, but then I figured maybe he was a PR who was trying to lay low. If that's not the case, then I'm not seeing anything that makes him town.

Oh cool.

everyone must play every game the same or they aren't town

i guess you missed the times ive said how busy i am irl, or dealing with cases of workplace harassment involving police etc.

sry 4 having rl things 2 do, i forgot it's my job to win every towngame i play solo

VOTE: aeronaut

i want to lynch aeronaut

multiple reasons, like him being scum but also he's exactly the type of player who knows how powerful it is to stall out a game like this. he KNOWS if he's town his input is so fucking valuable rn, but he gives none of it.

I know rb is town fmpov as well and if Aero was also town he would consider more angles in LyLo. Also it's not the_end I think, it's Aero/Sofiel. They're both pushing rb the same way, putting the burden of evidence on him, saying he's scum because he's not catching scum well enough, when the same could be said of everyone in the game tbh, since we haven't caught scum yet. However, when I was looking back at massclaims, I saw this:

Which means we're between Sofiel, the_end, ssbm_Kyouko. I'm in the middle of catchup for a lot of stuff, but thinking it's te

more tonight

Before rb claimed VT and said Aero was scum, Aero was of a mind that the last 3 scum were in me, sofiel, and the_end, and his plan was to push for the_end. However, when rb claimed VT and voted Aero, Aero flipped on rb. I think before they cross voted it was possible their interactions were scum theatre and the idea was to lynch the_end today, but they aren't scum together with Aero putting rb to L-1. The only way sofiel and the_end can be town fmpov is if Aero and rb are TvTing right now.

If the scumteam is Sofiel and the_end they would have chosen to vote against Aero instead of rb, because they would know that rb and I are both town voting against town Aero, and that would be 4 votes for a mislynch on town and a scum win. They don't make sense as a team together. Neither makes sense as an rb teammate either because both are voting him when they could be voting Aero if they were rb's teammate. As it is, they're voting rb because one of them is Aero's teammate.

Now because Aero's plan was to lynch the_end, he was planning on getting rb and lucca to vote the_end today. He's been laying the groundwork since day 1, the same way he was laying the groundwork for the FC and Zeke lynches days 1 and 2. Note that despite the fact that Aero SRed both of the lynches and was voting them both and pushing them as their wagons grew, he unvoted before lynch and never tried to convince anyone not to vote them. He never gave reason for changing his mind on any of them, he just got the ball rolling on the lynches and then let go of it.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Lucca, the way you asked me about why Sofiel/the_end can't be the team earlier made me think you think maybe that's a possibility

I want to hear reasons why they're a team, if anyone has any, before I put my vote back on Aero

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like I want to judge if anyone else has cases that have merit to them that I've overlooked that point to Sofiel/the_end. Justify the Lucca N1 kill attempt, show me scumslips, anything. I don't think it's likely but I was thinking the_end would be the player to flip onto Aero, not Sofiel, because I was thinking the team is Sofiel/Aero

Aero I want you to explain what was pointing you towards the_end being scum before rb voted you and you flipped your TR on him into a SR

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think Sofiel and the_end should cross-vote (both vote each other) because they both think the other is scum with either of rb/aero

[ssbm_Kyouko]

actually nah I'm just gonna wait for Aero's reply to 536

[ssbm_Kyouko]

actually nah I'm just gonna wait for Aero's reply to 536

[ssbm_Kyouko]

GAWSH

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmm, neither te nor Aero pushed Sofiel D2 did they? @rb/lucca

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Well like, I mean if we think Lucca got shot at because of this:

30 minutes left guys.

If Friend flips Town, this is scum.

It either means scum was trying to frame Sofiel using the NK, or scumteam includes Sofiel. If Aero/the_end were the team I don't see why neither pushed Sofiel D2 because the Lucca kill would have been intended to frame Sofiel, right? The players I remember pushing Sofiel are Lucca and ThinkBig, and they're both conftown. That's why I'm asking if anyone pushed him for it. If they did, it was a framing NK, if not, it was a defensive NK

[ssbm_Kyouko]

hmm, I'll have to reread D2/D3 for any Sofiel scumreads just in case, I'm not as sold on the improbability of Sofiel/Aero.

Also I don't think I was ever presented the opportunity to hammer Aero. I unvoted when Sofiel put Aero at L-1

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Genesis 4 Top 8 melee is on rn though so I'll do my reading afterwards

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Spoiler: Sofiel's progression on the_end

General reaction: Thanks a lot for the really in-depth responses and the questions you've posed to me. Totally get it. I'm just going to throw my all into it and hope for the best. Thus:

VOTE: Friend Computer

I can't get over the posts. #147 says "Currently think the_end is null scum" feels like a weak contribution and I really cannot get past the fact he hasn't responded to my votes/questions to him at all and his contributions don't seem to add anything. I feel like his posts have allowed him to fly under the radar a bit and I can't get over it - he's not done anything to make him stand out, he's not published a readlist and he's not actively scumhunting. His only vague scumhunting post is one that agrees with a general opinion that is 'the_end' seems a bit scummy. Other players in the game have been more central and the focus has been on them and I think we need to change this. I'm also wondering if this is bussing i.e. the_end is one of my stronger scumreads and Friend is scum trying to distance himself from the_end, but at the same time voting for ssbm because he sees an easy lynch that won't lose his teammate. I really want to get some focus on Friend hence why I'm using this post & i think earlier posts like #166 and previous reads.

I don't feel ssbm is scum despite the wagon and it's notable that FC is voting for them & one of my biggest scumreads. ssbm was a bit pouncy on TB but I feel the explanation of pressing for information is legit & it did give us info that is important and contributed overall to the town. Should be acknowledged that TB was an OMGUS vote and I think lucca isn't scummy enough for me so far to want to lynch him D1.

My reads:

rb, Aero are town-y enough for me to not want to push for a d1 lynch. (NT?)
ssbm, TB , lucca and Zekro are null (Zekro because the buddying argument which still makes sense to me).
Friend and the_end look scummy to me - Friend for reasons detailed above, the_end because it's easy to capitalise on my voting record as a point to vote against and I disagree generally with his readlist (his scum reads are my town reads etc).

I think there's a general rule to have double the amount of scum reads there are scum, so if I did have to point at possible scum I'd want to re-examine TB (bc OMGUS), lucca (for his vote on ssbm which seems opportunistic and worth looking into esp in context of his earlier vote on me which rang the same way - but in previous games I've read I've seen town get scumread for being opportunistic when genuinely trying to scumhunt) and Zekro (buddying argument and the lack of content argument are both balancing out for me atm).

Sofiel's D1 scumreads: FC/end, with secondary consideration of TB/lucca/Zeke

Should add I'm voting for Friend because I just feel more sure about him than anyone else. It might seem better strategically to jump on the_end's wagon rather than try and start a new one but Zekro is still null for me and the voters on the ssbm wagon are very questionable for me in regards to my readlist & I'm not sure I fully trust them.

Sofiel's reason for voting FC over end (despite having a better case on end in his read's post above) was that Zeke (the player voting end)

is a null for him

. This is important for later

um no. They would be CCed almost immediately, or if they got to a point when we all eventually claim.

Wouldn't it be possible that the people who can CC aren't in thread yet tho? Or am I missing a trick? (Tho to be fair the only people who haven't posted yet are Zekro and the_end )

Also I don't regret pushing for the lynch because at the end of the day considering this scenario at least we have the information of who was on the wagon for FC, we got the claim from TB/lucca from no NK and we can now approach D2 with a bit more info than we had D1. It's shit that he wasn't scum tho I was rly sure :u

@Lucca: I said we could review if we should or shouldn't lynch Zekro D2 when we have more info. But at the moment yeah Zekro does look suspicious so I *am* going to VOTE: Zekro to try and put some pressure on him. I kind of took the pressure away D1 by pushing for an FC wagon and if I was Zekro and scum I'd've been thankful for it and would've just kept quiet and let the wagon go on. His post #249 is a strange one but I think it could show he knew FC was town and just wanted to seem sympathetic - like, let's lynch FC as a last resort guys! expecting us to see FC was town and then town-read him for not wanting to kill a town player??

Sofiel votes Zeke here, despite never having announced a shift in his read on end, or having made any sort of interaction with end that may have helped Sofiel sort end into a town slot. He also lumps Zeke and end together at the top of the post so he's clearly aware of them but doesn't take the chance to ask anything of them in this post to sort which is more likely scum for him.
Sofiel also votes Zeke in this post, followed by:

VOTE: zekro
If I'm understanding the TB/lucca thing correctly, zekro is scum.

ssbm, it seems, is back to being pushy. I have my eye on him. I'm waiting for more posts from sofiel to get a better read on him.

end votes Zeke. Now the Zeke wagon has both Sofiel and end on it, and we know Sofiel notices this because in the next post:

@the_end can you elaborate on that more? That justification doesn't make much sense to me

Sofiel asks for an explanation of end's vote, without unvoting. Before, Sofiel would not vote the_end when he had to choose between end and FC because end's wagon had a nullread Zeke on it, but now Sofiel should have 2 SRs of Zeke and end, yet the same logic doesn't apply to Zeke's wagon as it did to end's wagon. end is worse than what zeke was to Sofiel - end is a scumread on the same wagon as Sofiel, and before Sofiel would not be on the same wagon as his nullread.
For what it's worth, end never explains his vote to Sofiel and Sofiel doesn't push him any further for reasoning. I feel like if Sofiel actually cared about end's lack of reasoning for his vote, he would have either unvoted or pressed end further.

Popping in to avoid prod; I've been busy preparing for a job interview (take it how you will lmao). I'll come in with a better post soon but cop is welcome to check me if they like, would recommend going for more suspect players (ssbm/aero/tb) because I'd rather they get a definite maf read than a town read.

Interesting that TB is calling for the cop to claim tomorrow/that he's been overall conf. town just because he suggested we start a townblock. Would call for more focus on that. But I guess we'll see on D3.

Should add Aero hasn't done anything explicitly scum but accepted townreads make me jumpy because if mafia is one of them they have a free ride to endgame.

Then this post, after I declare intent to hammer but before I hammer, Sofiel sets out his scumreads again, and the_end is mysteriously absent.

Sofiel definitely faked their read on the_end. Whether they're scum together remains to be seen but Sofiel is the day's lynch for me.

VOTE: Sofiel

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Sof even thinks game will continue after he's lynched, scumslip

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Town knows if they're lynched it's game over

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh jeez deadline

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Why does nobody care about the case that shows Sofiel faking reads on the_end? That incriminates Sofiel, not necessarily end though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Spoiler: Sofiel's progression on the_end

General reaction: Thanks a lot for the really in-depth responses and the questions you've posed to me. Totally get it. I'm just going to throw my all into it and hope for the best. Thus:

VOTE: Friend Computer

I can't get over the posts. #147 says "Currently think the_end is null scum" feels like a weak contribution and I really cannot get past the fact he hasn't responded to my votes/questions to him at all and his contributions don't seem to add anything. I feel like his posts have allowed him to fly under the radar a bit and I can't get over it - he's not done anything to make him stand out, he's not published a readlist and he's not actively scumhunting. His only vague scumhunting post is one that agrees with a general opinion that is 'the_end' seems a bit scummy. Other players in the game have been more central and the focus has been on them and I think we need to change this. I'm also wondering if this is bussing i.e. the_end is one of my stronger scumreads and Friend is scum trying to distance himself from the_end, but at the same time voting for ssbm because he sees an easy lynch that won't lose his teammate. I really want to get some focus on Friend hence why I'm using this post & i think earlier posts like #166 and previous reads.

I don't feel ssbm is scum despite the wagon and it's notable that FC is voting for them & one of my biggest scumreads. ssbm was a bit pouncy on TB but I feel the explanation of pressing for information is legit & it did give us info that is important and contributed overall to the town. Should be acknowledged that TB was an OMGUS vote and I think lucca isn't scummy enough for me so far to want to lynch him D1.

My reads:

rb, Aero are town-y enough for me to not want to push for a d1 lynch. (NT?)
ssbm, TB , lucca and Zekro are null (Zekro because the buddying argument which still makes sense to me).
Friend and the_end look scummy to me - Friend for reasons detailed above, the_end because it's easy to capitalise on my voting record as a point to vote against and I disagree generally with his readlist (his scum reads are my town reads etc).

I think there's a general rule to have double the amount of scum reads there are scum, so if I did have to point at possible scum I'd want to re-examine TB (bc OMGUS), lucca (for his vote on ssbm which seems opportunistic and worth looking into esp in context of his earlier vote on me which rang the same way - but in previous games I've read I've seen town get scumread for being opportunistic when genuinely trying to scumhunt) and Zekro (buddying argument and the lack of content argument are both balancing out for me atm).

Sofiel's D1 scumreads: FC/end, with secondary consideration of TB/lucca/Zeke

Should add I'm voting for Friend because I just feel more sure about him than anyone else. It might seem better strategically to jump on the_end's wagon rather than try and start a new one but Zekro is still null for me and the voters on the ssbm wagon are very questionable for me in regards to my readlist & I'm not sure I fully trust them.

Sofiel's reason for voting FC over end (despite having a better case on end in his read's post above) was that Zeke (the player voting end)

is a null for him

. This is important for later

um no. They would be CCed almost immediately, or if they got to a point when we all eventually claim.

Wouldn't it be possible that the people who can CC aren't in thread yet tho? Or am I missing a trick? (Tho to be fair the only people who haven't posted yet are Zekro and the_end )

Also I don't regret pushing for the lynch because at the end of the day considering this scenario at least we have the information of who was on the wagon for FC, we got the claim from TB/lucca from no NK and we can now approach D2 with a bit more info than we had D1. It's shit that he wasn't scum tho I was rly sure :u

@Lucca: I said we could review if we should or shouldn't lynch Zekro D2 when we have more info. But at the moment yeah Zekro does look suspicious so I *am* going to VOTE: Zekro to try and put some pressure on him. I kind of took the pressure away D1 by pushing for an FC wagon and if I was Zekro and scum I'd've been thankful for it and would've just kept quiet and let the wagon go on. His post #249 is a strange one but I think it could show he knew FC was town and just wanted to seem sympathetic - like, let's lynch FC as a last resort guys! expecting us to see FC was town and then town-read him for not wanting to kill a town player??

Sofiel votes Zeke here, despite never having announced a shift in his read on end, or having made any sort of interaction with end that may have helped Sofiel sort end into a town slot. He also lumps Zeke and end together at the top of the post so he's clearly aware of them but doesn't take the chance to ask anything of them in this post to sort which is more likely scum for him.
Sofiel also votes Zeke in this post, followed by:

VOTE: zekro
If I'm understanding the TB/lucca thing correctly, zekro is scum.

ssbm, it seems, is back to being pushy. I have my eye on him. I'm waiting for more posts from sofiel to get a better read on him.

end votes Zeke. Now the Zeke wagon has both Sofiel and end on it, and we know Sofiel notices this because in the next post:

@the_end can you elaborate on that more? That justification doesn't make much sense to me

Sofiel asks for an explanation of end's vote, without unvoting. Before, Sofiel would not vote the_end when he had to choose between end and FC because end's wagon had a nullread Zeke on it, but now Sofiel should have 2 SRs of Zeke and end, yet the same logic doesn't apply to Zeke's wagon as it did to end's wagon. end is worse than what zeke was to Sofiel - end is a scumread on the same wagon as Sofiel, and before Sofiel would not be on the same wagon as his nullread.
For what it's worth, end never explains his vote to Sofiel and Sofiel doesn't push him any further for reasoning. I feel like if Sofiel actually cared about end's lack of reasoning for his vote, he would have either unvoted or pressed end further.

Popping in to avoid prod; I've been busy preparing for a job interview (take it how you will lmao). I'll come in with a better post soon but cop is welcome to check me if they like, would recommend going for more suspect players (ssbm/aero/tb) because I'd rather they get a definite maf read than a town read.

Interesting that TB is calling for the cop to claim tomorrow/that he's been overall conf. town just because he suggested we start a townblock. Would call for more focus on that. But I guess we'll see on D3.

Should add Aero hasn't done anything explicitly scum but accepted townreads make me jumpy because if mafia is one of them they have a free ride to endgame.

Then this post, after I declare intent to hammer but before I hammer, Sofiel sets out his scumreads again, and the_end is mysteriously absent.

Sofiel definitely faked their read on the_end. Whether they're scum together remains to be seen but Sofiel is the day's lynch for me.

VOTE: Sofiel

Reposting

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah if sof's scum, I'd say it's t_e tomorrow.

Seems like it could easily be, didn't really look for the two-way interaction after I found something that convinced me on sofiel.

Sofiel's L-1 now, if we don't hammer we still have a day phase left to play LyLo

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'll still be voting Sofiel today
VOTE: Sofiel

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'd already decided on Sofiel anyways, I spent the last day phase combing over the game. I probably wouldn't have been convinced today to vote otherwise