Large Normal 199: L'Hôtel Pleuvoir (Fin)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Still enjoying the summer breeze (alive)

Pine

Nero Cain

gerryoat

Gamma Emerald
Aj The Epic

xSoniaNevermindx

ssbm_Kyouko

Alisae

Tywin Lannister

Elbirn

Titus

UNVOTE:

so in 3127 I was working on a list for the vigi pool since we're getting so close to lynch. Not gonna let this go through without Nero, Gerry, and Gamma posting first though

Anyways green should be off limits to Alisae, Red preferred shots, No color is fair game. That's my opinion. Titus, thoughts on this list?

Why are you TRing Elbrin

well green is just people that I thought you would say shouldn't be shot, was trying to get something out for Alisae before hammer. If I were in charge of the list it would be limited to [Sonia, Aj, Nero, Gamma], with Sonia/Aj as preferred shots. Elbirn isn't a strong TR, just one of my leans from general feeling about his posts combined with other players looking either more scummy or less towny than him. Got you and Alisae as my lock towns now that Cabd flipped. Sure scum doctor is possible technically, but if that were the case I don't think Nos would have died last night considering this post:

None here.

Dear Santa, I want to vig the following people
Tywin
Kyouko
Cabd

Yeah no on kyko or cabd

Nero nos tywin

Like if you were scum doctor you wouldn't put more than 1 of your team on the vig platter and if you did put 1 up there you would just doc on them. Since you're still pushing Tywin/Nero today after seeing Nos flip scum, and would probably still have Nero in tonight's vigpool,

I'd say the chances of you being scumdoctor are slim to none

, and even smaller if Tywin or Nero flip scum.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My theory of Elbrin Tywin AJ Nero feels good, but it's probably wrong

what about Gamma/Sonia? Seeming town to you even with Cloud ISO under consideration?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

but if 2-3 of [Pine, Gamma, Elbirn] are scum it wouldn't be unreasonable for town to sense something is wrong with the Lapsa wagon and vote for one of the scummy players on that wagon. It could be town was wrong about which of the players on that wagon was scummy, or it could be that Lapsa wasn't gaining enough traction so other members of the scumteam started a new wagon elsewhere (you), in which case you'd be town. If you flip, we know what happened. If you flip town, points to scum on your wagon. Speaking of, CK was last onto your wagon and he knows who the scumteam is. That points to you being town imo, which means scum thought lapsa wasn't gaining traction and started wagon on you, probably

[ssbm_Kyouko]

LUV, Sonia, Aj, Kyouko, Gerry, CK was your wagon. Gonna say if you flip town it means one or both of Sonia/Aj are scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Will get to you about Sonia when I get home Nero, but Tywin you should iso me, I know I haven't interacted much with gamma but I SRed mozamis on the basis she was preferentially treating Pine for lurking compared to other lurkers. I was thinking scum!Moz meant scum!Pine but I was wrong there

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So there are 4 traitor games in the archive and they're all 4 mafia total except one game where there were 5 mafia but in that game there were 21 players, a vengeful, and a lot of protective power (a doc, a non-consecutive doc, and a 3-shot commuter). Should only be 2 scum left imo, regardless of the presence of an SK (there were SKs in 3 of those games which had 21/19/21 players, no SK in the last game, a 16 slot game).

Gonna spec based on past games we're looking at 13 town vs 4 mafia, maybe 12v4v1 if town has a lot of protectives still lying in wait which seems unlikely given how many kills there have been.
2 scum dead leaves us with just 2 left so I think we should consider that when looking at possible scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So there are 4 traitor games in the archive and they're all 4 mafia total except one game where there were 5 mafia but in that game there were 21 players, a vengeful, and a lot of protective power (a doc, a non-consecutive doc, and a 3-shot commuter).

Should only be 2 scum left imo

, regardless of the presence of an SK (there were SKs in 3 of those games which had 21/19/21 players, no SK in the last game, a 16 slot game).

Gonna spec based on past games we're looking at 13 town vs 4 mafia, maybe 12v4v1 if town has a lot of protectives still lying in wait which seems unlikely given how many kills there have been.
2 scum dead leaves us with just 2 left so I think we should consider that when looking at possible scum

but if 2-3 of [Pine, Gamma, Elbirn] are scum

it wouldn't be unreasonable for town to sense something is wrong with the Lapsa wagon and vote for one of the scummy players on that wagon. It could be town was wrong about which of the players on that wagon was scummy, or it could be that Lapsa wasn't gaining enough traction so other members of the scumteam started a new wagon elsewhere (you), in which case you'd be town. If you flip, we know what happened. If you flip town, points to scum on your wagon. Speaking of, CK was last onto your wagon and he knows who the scumteam is. That points to you being town imo, which means scum thought lapsa wasn't gaining traction and started wagon on you, probably

...
...
...

post 3359: Still working on the guesstimation that there are 4-5 scum in this game
post 3462: Just checked the archive of previous games and determined there are most likely exactly 4 scum in this game
...
...

. . .

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Votes like this are exactly why I have said all game that you guys don't know what you're doing. You lynch town, NEVER give reasons for your wagons, NEVER give actual cases against any player you SR, and all of your decisions have been absolutely terrible. Everyone has sheeped each other, but not a single person has objectively read the game and played it well. None of you. All the good town players have been lynched or NK'd.

I'll hammer myself when I'm L1 just to get out of this shit show

. Nobody listens to my opinions anyways, because my reads are always counter to your shit wagons, not to mention that I've been railroaded by Titus ALL GAME LONG. Idk why I haven't been NK'd by Alisae (she probably thought I was the Mason for being literally the ONLY player to defend a fucking obvious town yesterday), but since I haven't been NK'd, let the predicted lynch happen quickly.

Again, I pointed out this would happen yesterday. I knew scum would quicklynch me off the shit reads of Titus. I said it yesterday, which is why I wanted Alisae to NK me instead.

Also AJ: have you not read any post I've ever made? Did you just forget everything I said at the end of D2? Is that on purpose? ISO me when you get a chance and see all the players I've called town and scum. Then after the game, see the results and compare them to Titus and others. See who was right here.

Post game, I want you all to rememver how your shit wagons and reads went, then try learning from it. It's not my job to convince you all that your reads are bad, but I've tried time and time again. I will be wagoned for doing so, but I am right. Wagon me for calling players out for not playing the game correctly, but don't blame the eventual loss on me. You sheeped the wrong players and will lose for it. Stop being sheep in future games and learn from this game.

Am I L1? Hammering myself

. Good luck! I said this all game and nobody listened.

Still enjoying the summer breeze (alive)

Pine

Nero Cain

gerryoat

Gamma Emerald
Aj The Epic

xSoniaNevermindx

ssbm_Kyouko

Alisae

Tywin Lannister

Elbirn

Titus

UNVOTE:

Tywin never asked to hammer himself though. He said he would hammer himself when he reached L-1. He was probably voted to L-1 while writing that post. He then notices he's L-1 and instead of hammering himself he says "Am I L-1? Hammering myself." but then doesn't vote. That's clearly scum AtE. The only reason he's alive is because we want to use the time we have to talk about scumreads. Tywin said he would hammer himself and I spotted it in a preview while making my post and I just quickly added unvote to the bottom of my post and posted, and only then, when it wasn't a lynch vote, did he vote himself.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

There is no vote so there is no hammer. No matter how loudly he screams and shouts he's going to hammer himself it is meaningless until he does it with vote tags

[ssbm_Kyouko]

meaningless is the wrong word - obviously there is intention behind waving around such a big and colorful stick. What I mean is no matter how loudly he talks about hammering himself he still does not actually hammer himself unless he uses vote tags to vote himself while he is at L-1

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Well Tywin if you're scum then I must be the last scum and we staged your fake selfhammering AtE

Did you read my ISO like you said you would before you mindlessly repeated the same accusation you had before? If you're scum it's with AJ or Sonia. If you're town Gamma is scum imo.

If I flip today it will be fine though because of the opportunistic nature of the votes on me.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

In response to Nero though, just looked back at Sonia's vote off the mozamis wagon. I'd say Tywin being scum is a strong indicator for town Sonia so I'll wait for that flip. Scum!Sonia wouldn't move off of mozamis to get onto her buddy

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And the reason I didn't really pay attention to it is because mozamis was more of a scumread at the time and Sonia was just not rubbing me as town (still isn't) so was sort of just PoEd and associated with Cloud into a weak SR.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah it's like my 3rd post upon daystart, quack and MD crumbs made me think doctor, that's the extent of my TR on them. I really just didn't want them to be wagoned because I didn't want their claim to be forced out

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Gamma, Kyouko makes that move as scum if:
1) Tywin is town
2) He's bussing.

It's a pretty easy stance to have. It's made more or less worse by the fact that it wasn't followed by a vote, which kinda suggests option 2 isn't there.

Okay so you're saying Tywin is town based on a preflip association with me instead of reading him based on his own actions?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If you say I make a move

as scum

if: and then follow it by 2 scenarios

1)Tywin is town
2)Tywin is scum

then say that 2 doesn't make sense (again,

if I'm scum

) then all you're doing is assuming I'm scum then coming to the conclusion that because I'm scum and I didn't vote, that I'm not bussing, which means Tywin must be town. That does not make sense, you never consider why I would unvote there and keep my vote off Tywin if I were town. How is this not either a)Reading Tywin off of preflip associations or b)confbiasing scum!Kyouko theories?

Can you even explain why you scumread on me? I feel like the whole case on me is speculation based around the traitor discussion and people thinking that Cloud was trying to signal me. There are probably 4-6 people you could make that case on based on CK's posts.

I did not want this day to end early and still don't want it to end. Nero and Sonia have been almost silent today as far as their content goes. If Tywin is town, the longer the day goes on without town lynching each other, the more scum will have to show their hand. I think right now you're being forced to show your hand because we didn't speedlynch Tywin. Your alignment will be revealed more and more the longer we talk, so if you're town (which I seriously doubt right now) you may be able to convince the rest of us, but if you're scum, the longer this lasts, the more obvious you will be when it's all over.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

How is this not either a)Reading Tywin off of preflip associations or b)confbiasing scum!Kyouko theories?

or c) Reading Kyouko off of preflip associations with Tywin for that matter

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think that's L-1. [Sonia, Alisae, Aj, Tywin, Nero] with 11 alive should make 6 to lynch.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My theory of Elbrin Tywin AJ Nero feels good, but it's probably wrong

Also note that 3/4 of conftown's SRs and Alisae, confirmed Vig/SK are on me as we speak.

Requesting Alisae shoots between Aj/Tywin tonight and that if one flips scum the other is to be lynched tomorrow.

I think Aj/Tywin are the biggest proponents for my lynch so far, and Aj has been shading me for a while now. Just going to vote for now, since it's really late, but will case him formally probably tomorrow if I'm alive.
VOTE: Aj

[ssbm_Kyouko]

No Kyouko. I am not shooting townies because you are scum.
Hey Elbrin, hammer this guy already for us?

Hey, you will shoot my requests if I'm lynched today because I will flip town and you will reconsider your wrong perceptions.

Titus Children are hard to control sometimes. But they can be right too.
And notice how hard it was to get a wagon on Kyouko?
It was a lot easier to get a wagon going on Tywin, don't chu think?
I wonder why that is.

Yeah, I definitely noticed how difficult it was to get me to L-1. [/sarcasm]
Seriously, do you even think before you post?

If you say I make a move

as scum

if: and then follow it by 2 scenarios

1)Tywin is town
2)Tywin is scum

then say that 2 doesn't make sense (again,

if I'm scum

) then all you're doing is assuming I'm scum then coming to the conclusion that because I'm scum and I didn't vote, that I'm not bussing, which means Tywin must be town. That does not make sense, you never consider why I would unvote there and keep my vote off Tywin if I were town. How is this not either a)Reading Tywin off of preflip associations or b)confbiasing scum!Kyouko theories?

Can you even explain why you scumread on me? I feel like the whole case on me is speculation based around the traitor discussion and people thinking that Cloud was trying to signal me. There are probably 4-6 people you could make that case on based on CK's posts.
I did not want this day to end early and still don't want it to end. Nero and Sonia have been almost silent today as far as their content goes. If Tywin is town, the longer the day goes on without town lynching each other, the more scum will have to show their hand. I think right now you're being forced to show your hand because we didn't speedlynch Tywin. Your alignment will be revealed more and more the longer we talk, so if you're town (which I seriously doubt right now) you may be able to convince the rest of us, but if you're scum, the longer this lasts, the more obvious you will be when it's all over.

So the entire post was directed at Gamma who claimed because you were calling Tywin on not self voting, you must be town. That line of thought is bullshit so I showed the scenarios for which scum would do the same. You and Tywin shouldn't be able to be scum together due to your actions so your scum flip clears Tywin.

However, i'm going to have to unvote. My general philosophy is to make a case against anyone to create a wagon (even though this one... really didn't need help) but I can't find enough of a case to convince myself at this point in time. I feel like I'm missing a buttload of posts that made me scumread you in the first place, so I'll keep looking.

UNVOTE:

Still got my eye on you, don't see why if Tywin and I can't be a team you wouldn't lynch Tywin to clear me instead, it seems like there are more points for scum!Tywin than scum!Kyouko. Still want to hear from the others on my wagon as to why they're here.

Either way, I'm conflicted about Tywin. I'm not sure on him atm. I'm much more sure on Kyouko.

Issue is, Tywin's pushed himself into a level of WIFOM that's just harmful for the town at large.

I don't disagree here. AJ is right. I'm 'okay' with getting lynched. I knew it was inevitable since day 1. I didn't think I'd make it this far.

All I'm doing now is trying to give any information possible so that town can catch scum on Day 4 and (hopefully) past that. So after my flip, some players should be looked at for their role in my lynch, combined with their roles in the Lapsa and moz lynches. Three town lynches means people better have damn good reasons for it. If not, they've got to be considered probable scum until further notice.

Aside from that, I probably should be the lynch today. That doesn't excuse the early wagoners who didn't give reasons for their votes. A scum case on me absolutely should be given, regardless of the fact that I know I'm town. Voting me means you believe I'm scum, so give a case and put in the work to show WHY you believe that. People should never, ever be allowed to sheep wagons consistently and not be grilled for it.

If you REALLY wanted to give information for after your flip you wouldn't selfvote.

This is why I didn't self-hammer when calling who should be shot after my flip, not going to take that info away from town

Hey Gamma, there's such a thing as proof.

Proof of what? That Gamma's scum? Can you post some of it?

I'm really tired of how blind Alisae is to Tywin's scumminess, and after voting him no less.
Alisae, stop playing like you got a red role PM.

Best part about this post is I'm not blind.
I like his words more and I agree with a Kyouko, Gamma, Titus/Pine scumteam.
A Kyouko flip tells me a lot of information. Kyouko Lynch means Game_Solved.

If I'm town, which 2 players are scum? You say my lynch solves the game but have shown no indication that you're even considering that I'll flip town, which I will. I'm assuming you think scum!Kyouko would be with scum!Gamma? If not, who would I be scum with?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That doesn't seem like a lot of information to me tbh. That seems like you'll be arriving at exactly the same conclusion as Titus only you have to flip me to see I'm town and she doesn't. You think scum!Elbrin refuses to hammer me and talks you down from voting town!Kyouko into voting Gamma? Do you think he's trying to pocket me?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm still trying to sort out where the scum are. I'm aware that what he is doing could be an attempt to pocket me but could also be town pointing out how silly you're being.
I was sitting at L-1 with Gamma chainsawing for me and Elbirn whiteknighting me, and Aj, the player who I felt was scummiest on my wagon made an unvote that looked like it could actually be coming from town, or it could just be that scum!Aj realized my wagon isn't going to go through today, I really don't know at this point.

My only TRs at this point are you Titus and Gerry. I feel like the scum are pretty involved right now so I'm leaning away from scum!Sonia

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My only TRs at this point are you Titus and Gerry.

I feel like the scum are pretty involved right now

so I'm leaning away from scum!Sonia

Fruit for thought. How many times have you slipped again?

I've been thinking so much about fruit that I'm slipping on all these thought peels

Food for thought: Nero has gone from L-1ing me to L-1ing Gamma without presenting any sort of argument aside from "I'm not TRing him"
I'm not TRing Gamma either, do you see me scrambling to get on the counterwagon to my own formerly L-1 wagon?

pedit: if you are scum Aj, I'm sure your partner was already on that wagon, so no, I don't think any of the remaining players would have hammered me. Like I said though it looks like your unvote could be coming from town. Do you feel like Nero is actually scumhunting here?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah this game is fucking solved.

Enlighten me

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Nero

I'm with mom

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Votecount 3.6

Gamma Emerald 5 (Elbirn, Aj The Epic, Alisae, Tywin Lannister, Nero Cain)
Tywin Lannister 2 (Titus, Gamma Emerald)
ssbm_Kyouko 1 (xSoniaNevermindx)
Aj The Epic 1 (ssbm_Kyouko)
Nero Cain 1 (Pine)

Not Voting 1 (gerryoat)

Sonia is V/LA.

Votecount 3.5

ssbm_Kyouko 5 (xSoniaNevermindx, Alisae, Aj The Epic, Tywin Lannister, Nero Cain)
Tywin Lannister 2 (Titus, Gamma Emerald)
Aj The Epic 1 (ssbm_Kyouko)
Gamma Emerald 1 (Elbirn)

Not Voting 2 (Pine, gerryoat)

I like how the same 4 players swing from one wagon to the next like it's nothing. Doesn't surprise me to see Alisae doing this because he always sheeps but really calls into question Aj/Tywin/Nero imo. 1 of these is scum surely

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Considering how similar the wagon on Gamma looks to the wagon on me I'd say he's pretty likely to be town since I'm town. If he's scum though it would be with Sonia or Pine I think just based on PoE after seeing how swiftly the wagon moved onto him. Don't think a block of 4 players with a scum blending in would move off of town!Kyouko to scum!Gamma. This is all based on *if* Gamma is scum though but I think it's more likely that based on how fast that wagon moved from me to him that there are scum in there just going along with the anti-Titus side of the town because Titus is conf. People shading Titus's conf status are pretty suspect too.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Cabd brought up Metal Sonic on D1, he probably researched it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Jesus Christ Pine fix your avatar

[ssbm_Kyouko]

what scum game?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh. So as scum, I spot a traitor crumb, point it out in the main thread instead of daychat, then lynch it when it literally claims "it's a traitor crumb for my scumteam."

[ssbm_Kyouko]

As scum, I don't let your townread Tywin hammer himself to end the day before it's even begun?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I pretty much narrowed it down to Kyouko and Gamma.
Looking at Cloudie's ISO actually helped me do that XD

Oh my god can you shut the fuck up. To me it looks like you're confbiasing.

No need to point out the obvious

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Due to me knowing my own alignment, I know I'm scum.

topkek

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Now that it's finally over I can say something, that whole "Kyouko might be playing a great scumgame btw" was a dumb reference to an ongoing game in which CK and I were paired. We won this morning

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Which was really inappropriate tbh because iirc Transcend WA alive I both games at the time

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Was*

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Tywin will explain AJ read more fully when I'm home but the shirt of it is we've been butting heads for a while and I think he's arguing in a scummy way rather than trying to sort me, like back when he tried to put words in cabd's mouth and when I called him out on it he said I was discrediting him

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So Gerry do you or don't you want a Tywin shot? First you don't but then you agree Tywin/Aj/Titus are players CK was trying to get MLed. You and CK are both from EM right? Do you think he, or would you, play the way Alisae described if he, or you, rolled traitor?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Thinking Elbirn is right about reconsidering things tbh. Will still make that reply to Tywin though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Wouldn't be surprised if 2 scum were in Sonia, Pine, Gamma actually. Just rereading my ISO, I feel like I get lost sometimes and it's nice to see my old ideas again and see what makes sense and what doesn't. Like rereading I see places where I started SRing Tywin and realize now that some of them weren't the greatest reasons. Same goes for Aj. A lot of my reads on him I feel are like his reads on me. Like I feel like I've sort of confbiased him because of an early transcend opinion which morphed into my opinion and just got worse over time as the both of us argued back and forth from time to time and I defended Titus as he pushed Titus. I feel like the game has been divided into 2 factions of popular opinion lead by similar scumpools and both sides SR the other side. The sides, basically, are Titus/Kyouko/Gamma/Pine and Nero/Aj/Tywin/Alisae. Sonia and Elbirn I feel are more nebulous here but Elbirn is a towny kind of nebulous I think.

Anyways I'm switching camps here, Titus can be confirmed all she wants over there but I think her reads are outdated/confbias/moon/stubborn whatever.

Going back to the post where I analyzed Clouds ISO:

I think both of you are just too invested and should back off a bit, its easier to see interactions when youre outside tunnels and whatnot, alisea 2nd to last post was explicitiy scumtelling imo

alisea is bascially saying that shes flip flopping because of tywin and that is just lold

Alisae is not scum here, especially if we ever see scum!Tywin flip. Cloud's iso as a whole points me to [Tywin, Sonia, Transcend, Gamma] for scum in order of descending suspicion. Alisae definitely not scum, Cloud was hanging onto that mislynch as long as he could and when Alisae finally calmed down he immediately backed off and went for the next easiest mislynch in the lurker Lapsa

Titus who do you see me being paired scum with?

Don't know. Not enough data, but why would you care?

Because I wanna help you scumhunt?

That's not helping scumhunt. That's pushing me down a path, which unfortunately is a different theory all together.

Also, why are you voting me if convinced I am hunting?

VOTE: Tywin
Not anymore.

For those that don't understand, I freaked out when

I was under the pressure Tywin gave me. And cause I was in that state of mind, I reacted to shit out of desperation. However, Tywin knows I react this way when I'm under a ton of fucking pressure. I think he does anyways. I think his first step to fighting Titus was to pressure me and be like "If she flips scum you're fucked." Tywin knew the buttons to push with me, so he manipulated me and pushed them. But I think he knew that he should start pushing them.

Tywin, you seem so desperate, I'm calling your bluff.

Imo that textbook mafia overexplaning their vote prior to the flip, also being proactive about being called out on it since the vote in itself is bad from her priors votes, alisea has be tuning her titus/tywin vote depending on the town swing for a good 10 ish pages now

This is Cloud pushing a

mislynch

.

yo if im wrong on tywin im wrong, i want trans read on that tho, i bet my macaroni he will agree with me

Preempting a scum!Tywin flip by saying "if I'm wrong I'm wrong" and is maybe trying to tempt scum!transcend into defending his partner. Could also be Cloud trying to buddy town!Transcend though so that's part of why he's lower on my list of suspects from the cloud iso.

Also woops i forgot i did quote, im sad transcend boi is subbing out, i really wanted to play with him and sonia, one of the reason why i joined the game, lapsa also said he wouldnt be part of tywin lynch but eventally did vote them, also aj you are right its not AI per se, but you have to read in to nd tywin's imo was genuine, much more than titus's iso she has posted as proof

VOTE: lapsa

This is where he gets onto Lapsa and his reasoning has to do with Lapsa voting Tywin. We've seen cloud and Lapsa's flips, I think this points to scum!Tywin

@ssbm get your vote in there, i see no reason why you would back off to go back on town

Cloud has already switched off Alisae (or was it Pine at this point?) onto Lapsa once he sees me start to push him. "go back on town" in this post refers to Tywin.

Lots of words

I'm sort of confused as to why you think AJ is naive for having lots of townreads he won't lynch when you basically hand your vote to two townreads

Though since I apparently have your vote please vote Titus with me kthx

Titus is town though, and neither of you have my vote. Titus and I have basically the same scumpool, but I think notable differences in our reads are at Nero and Aj. Voting with my townreads at an early stage before I develop strong SRs is not naive as you're implying though.

im fairly confident tywin is town though but i like you even if i think ure half wrong

Again, calling Tywin town. This was probably his most consistent stance all of D1, was that Tywin is town

Sonia is having the very same read that i have on tywin and we are competent enough to read into it, titus is just biased

Points to Sonia and Tywin for scum

Titus is town, tywin is town, aj looks town, sonia is gut town with pro reads that are just like mine. Sbm might be playing a great scumgame btw, elbirn looks town enough, gamma with the mason comment looks ridiculously town

This is the first and only time I see him mention Gamma which is why Gamma is the lowest on my suspect list but he repeats that Sonia has reads just like his again, maybe trying to hint that he has the same info she does?

And yea also

traitor claim

, if theres actually a traitor or not, its really great because mefia doesnt know if hes real or not and probably wont lynch him, just lynching a

traitor claim

is so good for reading interactions, mafia will find every reasons possble to not jump on it

i didnt read too mucn into your traitor crumd, im talking about the

traitor claim

Yeah, I'm still not interested in a Lypsawhateverthefuckhisnameis lynch

Pedit: whats this about lying about tywin?

Just going to mark this as fake looking and associatives with lapsa, this is the exact behavior im looking for by pushong on

traitor claim

He literally says "traitor claim" 4 times in a span of 6 posts if you read his ISO. The last time he says it he even draws attention to it with a , and the first time he says it he says "

and yea also traitor claim

, [redacted]"

I've since assumed that Transcend slot is mason based on NKA of night 3 and VCA of mozamis wagon. Tywin reads as a lot townier to me than Pine does overall, I do think he's just been driven to frustration especially early on but he's calmed down since I stopped him self-lynching I think, and talking with him has been helpful to figuring out where the game is. If I stop assuming Pine is right about Cloud defending Tywin because Tywin is scum, the game makes a lot more sense, and Tywin doesn't even read like scum for himself. I'm not sure if Pine is lazy town latched onto that idea or not though. This is where come back to Gamma/Sonia. I would much rather lynch Sonia because I feel like Cloud's real tells were early on. If people are going to crumb they'll do it early and I feel like he really tries to communicate something to scum!Sonia early knowing he couldn't be communicating it to scum!Transcend because that slot is most likely mason. He could also be crumbing to Gamma by telling him that he knows Lapsa's role because the mod PMed it to him. He could be telling Sonia he knows she's scum when he says he's already found 1 scum (because she's who he's voting) and that he'll townblock Transcend if he can come to the same read. He might be trying to convey he knows who mafia and town are by giving really accurate reads early so the scumteam catches on and sees that he knows too much for a town.

Anyways I'm confortable sheeping Tywin/Alisae and using CK analysis and a bit of POE to vote Gamma but for now I'm just going to read some Gamma/Sonia/Pine ISOs and see what I can dig up

[ssbm_Kyouko]

hoping this flips scum, if not im fine with being shot for the sake of getting the associations in CK iso figured out. If Gamma and I are both town (and I am town) I think Pine/Sonia/Aj are the most suspicious but Gamma is probscum

VOTE: Gamma

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So you think as scum I hammer my buddy without intent but if gamma's toiwn and i hammer without intent I'm also town?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So why does Gamma town not mean scum in Kyouko, Nero, Elbrin, Tywin, and why not Sonia after CK Iso?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You "can WIFOM my hammer all fucking night"

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So either shoot me so yall can lynch sonia for the cloud iso tomorrow or shoot sonia and consider lynching me if she's town

[ssbm_Kyouko]

rip, that one was close