Mini 1730: Suikoden U-Pick GAME OVER

[Titus]

I am pretty sure you're melodramatically paraphrasing there Jeanne.

@Suzune - Jeanne LQ Wgeurts BM (scum in there?).

[Titus]

Tell me who is scum. Are you caught up?

[Titus]

Tell me who is scum. Are you caught up?

I'm semi caught up so far.

Where are you? Who are you scumreading?

[Titus]

pistachi seems scummy to me.

I got the opposite impression: pistachi0n seems to be the only town player on your wagon.

Between that (LQ), and the Titus wagon, we probably have the entire scumteam.

{FireKari, Elbirn, Jeanne, Titus, Suzune} are

very

strongly town.
{Klingoncelt, pistachi0n} are weaker town.
BRantz stands at null.
{LicketyQuickety, Blackest Magic, wgeurts, Reasonably Rational} are all scumreads.

Why is Jeanne town?

[Titus]

Suzune, never clear or scumfirm based on ability. I had a doc inventor as scum. Used it to sail for days.

[Titus]

Why is Jeanne town?

I've seen absolutely nothing to make me think Jeanne is scum, and the whole interaction with you has looked insanely town to me, Titus. I don't even get why you're not townreading Jeanne.

She's saying trust no one while buddying me like crazy...that looks town to you?

[Titus]

I trust no one without undeniable proof. So far, only one player gave me solid proof.

This is the first mention of trust in her iso.
That player was you, no?

So yes.
It does.

Read the rest. She said solid after that so no undeniable proof I am town fhpov.

However, let's suppose your interpretation is correct. What player with undeniable proof of my towniness votes me for suspecting them?

[Titus]

What player with undeniable proof of my towniness votes me for suspecting them?

A player who reconsiders their stance on what undeniable proof is.

That's not possible. Either proof is deniable or it's not...

[Titus]

@Jeanne, Cultivate but never forget failsafe procedures.

@Wgerts, My accusations of LQ role fishing stand. A play that supposes dumb town (which you do on LQ) is several layers of ewww and white knight. Forgetting who is voting you is usually, but not always a scum indicator. Him not knowing AUA is pretty bad. Either he has no attention to relevant details or is scum.

Glad you pointed this out because yes, my attention to relevant details suck balls. I go about completely different ways at reading people.

Well how do you read people? What are your stances? I asked like 3 times.

[Titus]

@Jeanne, Cultivate but never forget failsafe procedures.

@Wgerts, My accusations of LQ role fishing stand. A play that supposes dumb town (which you do on LQ) is several layers of ewww and white knight. Forgetting who is voting you is usually, but not always a scum indicator. Him not knowing AUA is pretty bad. Either he has no attention to relevant details or is scum.

Glad you pointed this out because yes, my attention to relevant details suck balls. I go about completely different ways at reading people.

Well how do you read people? What are your stances? I asked like 3 times.

I'm reading through the thread now. I don't exactly know how to put into words how I read people. Just know its not conventional.

Try. Please. I am not a telepath. If you're town, help me help you.

[Titus]

Either proof is deniable or it's not...

I learned long ago that such black and white thinking never ends well, especially when it comes to projecting it onto others.

If I said 'undeniable proof', it would not actually be 100% beyond-all-reasonable-doubt undeniable proof. I can see myself easily second-guessing my assumption that it was undeniable proof. If I can doubt it, so can someone else.

Some black and white thinking is bad.

Yet, black is black. 2 plus 2 = 4 unless pregnancy is involved. Undeniable is undeniable.

I don't revisit definitions.

Jeanne isn't confscum. Someone *cough* needs to investigate her tonight.

[Titus]

Titus, Jeanne:

Do you both have your scumread of LicketyQuickety stand?

If so, you can table going at each others' throats and lynch him first.

Ok.

VOTE: LQ

Wagon on LQ is all town anyway and he's giving me nothing.

[Titus]

Bright, if you're a proxy for a player, quote this post please.

Right now, you're voting town and I don't like it.

[Titus]

I believe I have deduced which player you are. So if you refuse and I can prove it, I will lynch you unless you claim to me.

[Titus]

I can't prove it yet. I suspect both Bright and its owner are scum. It's not a far stretch to find the owner.

I have no qualms blackmailing scum. Notice the part where I said claim to me. I believe this player can claim to me, or at least stop voting obvious town.

Your Ranger vote also sucks.

[Titus]

Right now, you're voting town and I don't like it.

Grrrrwar

I believe I have deduced which player you are. So if you refuse and I can prove it, I will lynch you unless you claim to me.

Kyrrr

Mal'Ganis from off site says hello. Quote this post if accurate. If not, then if it's proven scum if you claim it later. If yes, only I know. Your move. Include your alt name back.

[Titus]

Forgot you might be PRed as Bright. Ignore the latter part.

[Titus]

Mal'Ganis from off site says hello. Quote this post if accurate. If not, then if it's proven scum if you claim it later. If yes, only I know. Your move. Include your alt name back.

Please do not use out-of-game information in this way.
This sort of post borders a little too uncomfortably on infringing the Global Rule against bringing "outside influences into the game".

Question withdrawn temporarily.

[Titus]

It's not proven scum if claimed later at all.
Town can quite understandably not claim double voter as well. You're not the almighty god here.

Yes, it is. A dog that only snares and votes obvious town is scum.

Oh and yes Drixx, we could debate this and I realize the reversal. I am town role fishing.

[Titus]

Klingon votes ranger which is a bit of wtf.

I didn't like the secret vote in the dark mechanic. It seems to me it's just a sneaky way for Scum to create a mislynch. No one can see the count, no one can claim at L-1... No, I don't like it.

So I voted for Ranger. I didn't think anyone else would, therefore I wouldn't be part of a creepy as fuck lynch that would probably be a mislynch.

And why Ranger? Why has your vote stayed?

What did the stunt tell you about alignments?

You have played with me more than anyone and I'm just drawing you out now.

If you hated the secret vote mechanic, where's your anger at me? At not being included?

[Titus]

Thoughts on the dog?

[Titus]

There's nothing dirty about leashing scum/anti-town. I'm just transparent about it. It happens every game. People are more subtle about it.

Claim at L-1 is no different.

Punt on Jeanne but largely agree.

[Titus]

Jeanne, legit question, have you ever been mislynched?

Wgeurts is not assuming LQ is a god. You could argue white knighting. The context of your point is very similar to the gripe I have on you.

[Titus]

Your behavior though is anti-town. All your reads being omgus isn't helpful. While no mistakes should happen, they do. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water. If you play with someone for quite awhile and know they can read you, then this approach may be valid on that player.

As for 861, those are the points you need to elaborate on. Not the LQ is scumreading you therefore scum bit.

[Titus]

Also if you're only voting LQ cus titus was in some manner then your current scum read of titus should logically mean you town read LQ.
Also there ARE ALWAYS MISTAKES! period.
People mislynch constantly, town can only mislynch if town made mistakes. Your logic is faulty.

Yeah the logic here for town reading LQ is shit and manipulative.

[Titus]

Your behavior though is anti-town. All your reads being omgus isn't helpful. While no mistakes should happen, they do. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water. If you play with someone for quite awhile and know they can read you, then this approach may be valid on that player.

As for 861, those are the points you need to elaborate on. Not the LQ is scumreading you therefore scum bit.

That's what I'm saying, her logic is flawed

Logic is flawed on why she is voting you (OMGUS); doesn't mean she's wrong on you wking LQ.

[Titus]

Your behavior though is anti-town. All your reads being omgus isn't helpful. While no mistakes should happen, they do. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water. If you play with someone for quite awhile and know they can read you, then this approach may be valid on that player.

As for 861, those are the points you need to elaborate on. Not the LQ is scumreading you therefore scum bit.

That's what I'm saying, her logic is flawed

Logic is flawed on why she is voting you (OMGUS); doesn't mean she's wrong on you wking LQ.

Wking?

White knighting.

[Titus]

That's what Shiro and Titus said last game. They ended up being scum. Case in point, your argument isn't something I haven't seen.

To be fair, what I did is I spun a series of facts based on the setup to "confirm" Shiro violating my own rule on read strength.

[Titus]

Ranger; you are objectively bad at mafia. Whatever is "bad" about marked had better not result in wguerts being dead or we'll ensure you are hanging on a rope as swiftly thereafter as possible.

We have our reasons, already crumbed.

~Drixx

From where I sit, wgeurts looks pretty bad too.

From your POV, why do you consider Ranger as bad rather than scum? Why not reconsider your wgeurts read?

[Titus]

Right now? So I would be at night? The night is in 9 days or so, not 'right now'.

You do realize you're implicating yourself?

Can we lynch this please? There's literally no way to read this and I don't want to be staring at end game and still wondering.

Nope. Don't feel like it anymore.

Talk to me if LQ flips town. You could convince me on Klingon.

[Titus]

But, no, seriously, you all have 'let scum play us for fools, huzzah!' mentality and are looking me like I am insane for trying not to let scum string me along.......

You're coming across more like aliens are out to get me guy rather than cautiously skeptical to the point where it is hard to tell your alignment. I have done the same myself. Hence why I favor facts, vote counts and VCA.

It's not the question of what people are doing at first but why. With more facts, charisma is less important.

So chill. I agree wgeurts looks scummy for his gambit reaction. LQ has issues. So does BM. So does Klingon. I doubt RR.

We're all powerful roles in our own rights probably.

Try to find who you can trust but always have a failsafe.

[Titus]

*so does wgeurts

[Titus]

There's nobody in this game who can objectively read Jeanne, and so there's only two ways to handle her: Lynch her while we have mislynches in case it's not just a put on by scum ... or investigate. But we can't trust that we HAVE a proper investigator and it would be suboptimal for an investigator to waste a night on someone who is being deliberately obtuse and slinging mud all over the place. This is a case where we're going to have to lynch Jeanne sooner or later, so better to do it today and get some clarity from all of her interactions.

You're town for {reasons}, which don't need to be discussed today, because scum doesn't need help.

This makes me want to vig you despite thinking you're town. While Jeanne has things she needs to learn, lynching her for being transparent about her trust issues isn't on the agenda.

[Titus]

@Ranger, Do you townread Jeanne and I?

[Titus]

*cough* Ranger 936 *cough*

[Titus]

Ten they get lynched. See Legends of the Hidden temple.

[Titus]

@Cerb, Klingon fits your bill. I'm not lynching the dog unless lylo hits. The dog should die if its master does. (Pure logical guess here). The more the dog should talks the more it tells about its owner. I am pretty sure who owns it. Not town reading them they can shape up or ship out.

[Titus]

Join me Elbrin.

[Titus]

Jeanne, you have just said far too much. When LQ said there was no way you and I could have been neighbors, just stating Titus and Suzune would be able to vouch was sufficient.

LQ, you had significant proof in the post he quoted. The theme song is Mr. Rodgers Neighborhood talking about "be my neighbor", not subtle. Asking why someone might be weird about that sticks a huge sign asking "Hey are you actually neighbors?" Hence role fishing.

LQ, All votes cast over PM were real. I used the various messaging mechanics to make sure town knew what was going on. Hence why I can conclude you're most likely scum or scum in my townreads. The codes were to transfer things to Elbrin as he couldn't reply back. The hood can only have one person other than Jeanne at a time. To have all four of us discuss things necessitated the code.

What really bothers me is Jeanne is really loose lipped. She's essentially claimed all of the above and some other things I am not confirming or denying. Someone of them may have been done as tests. Given our daytalk power, scum almost certainly have daytalk as well. Yet, if that's the case, why would Jeanne have to spill all that? Further, she'd need a reason to do so.

Tldr, Jeanne is town but I am not trusting her with any secrets (including confirming or rejecting who got my first message) for obvious reasons.

[Titus]

@LQ, I needed someone people would actually possibly pile votes on. I was stating Elbrin was scum for horrible inane reasons and people thought we were masons together. He was the plan originally. Yet I couldn't use Elbrin if no one would vote him. No one was going to vote me. So that leaves Jeanne or Suzune and Jeanne had more undercurrent. Plus she was wierding me out a bit.

Forgive me if I don't buy you didn't watch or read the title of post 10. Don't buy it at all.

As for why, the pair of Elbrin and Suzune were picked. They were joint townreads of me and Suzune.

@Jeanne and LQ, STOP POSTING PLEASE!

[Titus]

The only reason that's not gun to your head autodeath LQ was Drixx was equally as stupid in We Didn't Play test this.

You both need to stop posting otherwise I am just going to votepark on the biggest wagon that's on one of you. You're going at it for pages making it hard to communicate with everyone else.

[Titus]

Why those scumreads?

[Titus]

Which question?

[Titus]

@Cerb, I wanted you to engage. So I asked you for a read. Any read.

Notice how I said anti-town, not scum. Really, my post was crafted to get the result I wanted. We get a lot of engagement and we can determine there's next to no bussing. You seem to think that scum would default to thinking that vote by PM = town and that's absurd.

[Titus]

My point is that there is no information gained from that vote which is usable today, and your assertion that would be is fundamentally flawed.

-Cerb

VCA isn't meant to be done Day 1. Still flipping LQ would do shittons in proving my theory as you believe that Suzune/Elbrin/Jeanne are town right?

My assertion isn't flawed. If my plan failed at all, it's because of Jeanne saying "scum" instead of anti-town. Still think it netted us LQ and wgeurts as scum. BM is likely the third.

[Titus]

Error Titus Robot mentioned 8 slots.

Titus robot also forgot Klingon as a scumread.

[Titus]

@BM/LQ/Wgeurts, Thoughts on Klingon please!

[Titus]

I went through Klings ISO and saw some Scum hunting. That's an ok sign I guess. I nailed Kling last game we were both in for not doing that and they were Scum who didn't get lynched fwiw.

Where?

[Titus]

I went through Klings ISO and saw some Scum hunting. That's an ok sign I guess. I nailed Kling last game we were both in for not doing that and they were Scum who didn't get lynched fwiw.

Where?

IDK.. go through her ISO as see if you see her asking any questions and stuff.

I don't. That's why I asked you.

[Titus]

I don't know what to say, I had to do some catch up.
Still think Lickety is the lynch for the day.

I might be falling into a confirmation bias and consensus though with everyone else....

Valid concern but I really do think LQ is scum.

[Titus]

I went through Klings ISO and saw some Scum hunting. That's an ok sign I guess. I nailed Kling last game we were both in for not doing that and they were Scum who didn't get lynched fwiw.

Where?

IDK.. go through her ISO as see if you see her asking any questions and stuff.

I don't. That's why I asked you.

You don't do ISO's?

I don't see Klingon scumhunting.

[Titus]

@RR, Quoting Klingon's ISO and saying it's meaningful doesn't explain anything.

[Titus]

@RR, Quoting Klingon's ISO and saying it's meaningful doesn't explain anything.

I'm not trying to explain anything. I'm just highlighting the pieces that might lead someone to feel she's scum hunting.

-Cerb

Do you? Might lead someone isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

[Titus]

You want to vote her together?

[Titus]

I actually don't see Ranger saying that. I like Ranger's transparency. I don't mind his mark choice (but if it murders the target I'd feel differently).

You're wanting to lynch Ranger who could be bad town over someone you think isn't scum hunting and your vote isn't sitting on an active player? So many levels of wtf.

[Titus]

@BM, Jeanne and I were in a hood. Town having daychat and not scum is stupid. Plus, Varsoon favors day chatting scum.

I wanted to use it because scum are very unlikely to bus with the lights out.

[Titus]

I am strongly leaning towards LQ/wgeurts/BM/Klingon, with a long shot of RR as the scums. Don't see myself supporting any other wagon.

[Titus]

Your thoughts on Klingon?

[Titus]

Will have to discuss it with Jeanne, but I am fine with that.

[Titus]

RR, if you want a counter to LQ, I am willing to wagon Klingon. You and I agree she's not scumhunting. I'm obviously not self voting. Ranger's town. There's gotta be more than two scum.

#reachout

[Titus]

Hoods are not alignment indicative..

If there are 2 people in the hood. The bigger the hood, the more likely that there's at least 1 Scum in it. A hood with 4 players in it most likely has at least 1 Scum.

That's only true of mod designed hoods. Jeanne picked me. We added Elbrin and Suzune.

[Titus]

I don't see Klingon scumhunting.

It's Day 1. I'm trying to sort things out. This game is like falling down a rabbit hole, it's so nuts. As soon as I think I've got someone sorted, somebody else comes in and changes everything.

For now, I'm trying to figure out who's Scum between Wgeurts and Ranger, and between Jeanne and LQ. Also I keep forgetting that Brantz and Pistachion are in the game until I see their names in my notes.

I still think the threadlock vote thing was scummy.


That's pretty much all I have right now.

Deal.

One thing - I want everyone's reads on Brantz and Pistachion.

Why are you pushing dichotomies?

If you thought the threadlock thing was scummy, where is the anger? You are fully capable of being pissed with me, ranting at me. You have a certain amount of fire. Where is it?

Why do you feel the way you do?

Why aren't you asking questions that could highlight alignment?

[Titus]

Wgeurts, fake daykills not cool. Doubly so on town.

[Titus]

@RR, Your rage at Kari's statement looks a lot like my rage at Mastina in Stevens Universe. If she doesn't conftown, we can deal with it then.

[Titus]

I'm not backing off of LQ. I still think LQ is fine to lynch. I was thinking you were town, but you're drawing too many parallells here where I'm starting to doubt again. Given the LQ wagon appears to be all town, but none of the people on the wagon are expressly townreading Klingon, I was hoping to work together. Considering you're shitting all over that, I'll just be over here doing me.

Kari's claim is exactly like Mastinas. Both said they were conftown on Day X. Kari's hasn't resolved yet, but this one has all the issues Mastina had. Yet, you were fine with that particular one. You're not now. I'm wondering whether the difference is because of your alignment or because you aren't going to be in the hood confirmed that "confirms" Kari.

[Titus]

Why are you pushing dichotomies?

If you thought the threadlock thing was scummy, where is the anger? You are fully capable of being pissed with me, ranting at me. You have a certain amount of fire. Where is it?

Why do you feel the way you do?

Why aren't you asking questions that could highlight alignment?

The anger's in the local sewage system. I'm getting over a nasty stomach flu. The fire's in my spine with an arthritis flareup. I don't have the energy to rant.

I am asking the right questions. They're working for me. I'm getting used to being on this side of the looking glass, things will begin to gel for me soon.

You didn't answer my question.

What question have I not answered?

How have your questions revealed anything about alignment?

[Titus]

@RR And why do you view me as scum absolutely, while ignoring any and all possibilities of me being town?!

That's not what he's saying.

[Titus]

No he said you're anti-town and should be vigged.

[Titus]

So I am trying to remove LQ, the biggest threat to town and I am anti-town?

Your posting stops other people from seeing this. I went over this with you in the hood.

[Titus]

I'd find out relatively soon into D2 if Jeanne trusts me still and we're all alive.

[Titus]

@Klingon, yup. Suzune Elbrin and Jeanne aren't conf anything solely because we had a communication method. They're town due to actions.

So LQ BM RR or Brantz, name your scumreads please.

[Titus]

Forgot Wgeurts.

How many lean towns do you have?

[Titus]

^^^ was at Klingon

[Titus]

1253 was a communication error. I was intending to ask Klingon her reads in that pool.

[Titus]

Also Jean me you up for a little bet?
I'll vote LQ and if he flips town you have to sheep me with your vote all of tommorow, failing to do so would either show you're likely scum or you lack honour/honesty.
Let's put your certainty to the test. Also, do you have some ability which has lead to a scum result on LQ or something?

Ewwww that part at the end makes this post terrible.

If LQ is town, I'll want wgeurts's head.

[Titus]

Forgot Wgeurts.

How many lean towns do you have?

Not a lot.

I have some either/or:

If Wgeurtz is Scum, Ranger is Town,
if LQ is Scum, Jeanne is Town

The shy is black at night.

[Titus]

It was a reaction yest? How was it bad?
Depending on how he reacted he could of let slip his alignment.

Since the test is over, how so

[Titus]

Lq/blackmajick/pistachio

If only the game were actually that easy to solve. *sighs*

Forgot Pist was here...

Klingon's probably scum.

[Titus]

@LQ, I have learned a shitton from my gambit. If I am alive in a few days, I should have this cracked.

Also, why wouldn't you claim here?

[Titus]

@wgeurts Here's the question

Why not use our abilities to full extent in order to catch scum?

Please do, just say shenanigans have confirmed him as scum.
just like RR has claimed I'm town for (reasons)

Him being LQ? What shenigans?

[Titus]

Just vaguely say that something done via your role has confirmed him as scum.

That's not vague. He has a high likelihood of scum just because scum didn't vote him.

Either a) LQ is scum or B) They didn't think votes were anonymous which highly points to scum within Suzune/Elbrin/Jeanne.

[Titus]

There is the possibility scum were already on the wagon, but again that's scum within the three most likely again.

[Titus]

If you have something stronger, you should out it.

[Titus]

No I'm wondering if the reason jeanne is getting so frustrated is that she KNOWS LQ is scum because of something game-mechanic wise, if that's so I'm asking her to say so but not say how as that could reveal useful abilities

I can state for certain this is no. You wouldn't believe me if I said why Jeanne was pushing LQ's scum so hard. It's something so off I'm reflecting on it. Town or scum wouldn't actually put forth the reason Jeanne's so confident.

[Titus]

No I'm wondering if the reason jeanne is getting so frustrated is that she KNOWS LQ is scum because of something game-mechanic wise, if that's so I'm asking her to say so but not say how as that could reveal useful abilities

I can state for certain this is no. You wouldn't believe me if I said why Jeanne was pushing LQ's scum so hard. It's something so off I'm reflecting on it. Town or scum wouldn't actually put forth the reason Jeanne's so confident.

Are you saying that Jeanne's reasoning is irrational? Or are you saying that neither town nor scum would say what the reason is? If the latter why?

Both. It's just that unbelievable...

[Titus]

I'm not saying her reasons for LQ are bad for LQ being scum, but she's real likely confbiasing if town. Her rabid desire comes from something no one should actually have...

[Titus]

@Ranger, what other sites do you play on?

[Titus]

@RR, Asking what sites he plays on is to get in his head, not an external influences violation. I'm not going to say something like "If I am town, I'll join your site." It's promises based on alignment that's troublesome. Wanting to know background or meta is not.

Second, your stalling on VCA is farcical. Day 1 is the most useful but VCA shouldn't happen until D3 at the earliest.

[Titus]

How can they deliberate if they're not reading at all?

We are. Deliberation is a slow process. You have to deal with facts presented, figure out what you want, etc etc.

Freak out if people aren't agreeing with your wagon and not responding. You have a good majority going. Let's go slow and wait for others to catch up.

[Titus]

RR might be scum with LQ. His push on me is garbage.
Wgeurts bleh not thrilled with him. He tried a SIG bet with me as well. I am reading the same hallmarks of desperation from him. If he hadn't cast that dumb vote, not sure I'd be scumreading him.
People agreeing won't comment. The rest are lurkers.

[Titus]

I mostly agree with what Titus said. Your case is full of confbias, and is extremely convoluted.

@Titus: any chance of you answering about why you think LQ is scum (besides the rolefishing thing)?

Role fishing, scum didn't hammer, LQ's refusal to claim at L minus 1, unclear stances.


I am also seeing a relationship between RR and Klingon. Jeanne and Brantz thoughts?

[Titus]

@RR, What living players (not the dog) would you be willing to wagon?

[Titus]

RR might be scum with LQ. His push on me is garbage.
Wgeurts bleh not thrilled with him. He tried a SIG bet with me as well. I am reading the same hallmarks of desperation from him. If he hadn't cast that dumb vote, not sure I'd be scumreading him.
People agreeing won't comment. The rest are lurkers.

What part of the push in you is garbage? Do we hold you in higher esteem than you deserve, because that's the fundamental problem we have with your slot. Your thoughts aren't at the level we've come to expect from you.

-Cerb

#1330

[Titus]

@RR, What living players (not the dog) would you be willing to wagon?

[Titus]

@RR, I have learned plenty.

1) My hood is likely all town, unless rarely Jeanne is scum.
2) LQ is probably scum or scum didn't believe what I said.
3) You as scum would avoid an LQ wagon and avoid wanting any real conflict.

You are going aggressive because you're boxed in. I've cleared too many people. Having that many clears is a shit ton.
Add in scum wouldn't likely bus on the offshoot I was honest and... Wham.

[Titus]

@RR, Quoting Klingon's ISO and saying it's meaningful doesn't explain anything.

I'm not trying to explain anything. I'm just highlighting the pieces that might lead someone to feel she's scum hunting.

-Cerb

Do you? Might lead someone isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

I don't think she is. I see tangential involvement in the noise that is Jeanne, with no independent pushing being done. But I see how someone could view that as scum hunting.

-Cer

So you think Klingon's not scumhunting but only Drix wants to lynch her? Yet your basis for me is my scumhunting underwhelming?

You left out Brantz from no meaningful content too...

You've asked to wagon Jeanne several times, but she doesn't appear in your list now.

[Titus]

@Titus What do you mean 'your hood'?

Easiest way to say you me suzune Elbrin.

[Titus]

And why aren't you visiting the farm anymore?

I am right now. #confused.

[Titus]

So basically neither of you want to lynch Klingon despite the fact you think she's not scumhunting?

@Suzune, Does RR's lynch list seem weird to you in light of that?

[Titus]

But you just said Klingon's not scumhunting? How is that "providing questionable content"? Second, FYPOV, you've alleged I've provided questionable content and you're certainly trying to lynch me more than lurkers.

[Titus]

If you're all scumreading him, then vote him. You're pretty much stalling here and cross-accusing one another. There are 6 days till deadline. If this continues, we'll end up with no lynch, something that's bad for town.

It's pretty clear that LQ will be the lynch.

I prefer to stretch the Day out a bit and sort everyone else out.

Then do something. The more you sit on your ass and apologize; the more I convinced I become that you're just scum sitting on your ass trying to have town take the fall for a bad lynch.

The fact you're not expressing anger over my gambit, over people are stating you're not scumhunting, the fact you've found nothing worth digging into, the fact you're not sspeting RR of buddying you...

Where is your fire?

[Titus]

@RR, There is no hole for me to dig myself out of. You always go back to your "disagreements" on my gambit when I call you out for your inconsistent read patterns.

Of course KC has value to town. That's if she's scumhunting.

If you think she's not, then you should be willing to lynch her.

[Titus]

Klingon isn't providing content or scumhunting. That's exactly how you defined a lurker in Steven's Universe, not the number of posts.

You're sitting there on the dog and avoiding any and all major conflict but for me avoiding pushing lurkers.

VOTE: RR

Jeanne's going to be pissed but I like you as scum now more than LQ.

[Titus]

OK, I'm a multivoice voter with bullet proof.

So you're claiming the dog then?

[Titus]

VOTE: RR

Don't lose track of the target!

OK, so stuff happened and I'm at L-1. Want me to claim now?

This claim-stalling is showing LQ's scum motivation. He is skirting by on RR and wgeurts defending him, without actually doing anything. He's hoping that by doing nothing, people will just forget about him and get distracted like Titus did above.

Why are you giving a fluff answer and not speaking to the main point that I raised?

See above.

VOTE: LQ

RR pretty much slipped he was buddies with LQ anyway when he said don't blame me if LQ flips scum.

[Titus]

That's right, you don't. The same way I don't understand what the heck LQ and RR want me to do to prove I am town. They wanted a case and I gave it to them. They still insist I am scum no matter what I say. So I will give you and them the taste of your own medicine.

RR is stating you must be lynched regardless of your alignment, not that you're scum.

[Titus]

In post 1385, FireKari wrote:

n post 1381, Reasonably Rational wrote:
Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon?

-Cerb

To placate Jeanne11.
~Yukari

That's a terrible reason to join a wagon. Even if you were in a game with an Innocent Child, that doesn't make them infallible. You still need to engage your own brain. You are essentially saying, ahead of time,

"hey don't blame me if LQ flips scum

... I'm just on the wagon to placate someone who was vomiting posts into the thread like it was going out of style."

It's the type of slip I make all the time as scum. Much more confident in my RR scumread now.

No one hammer till LQ answers my question to him please

[Titus]

Have the dog vote. Confirm you are likely the dog.

[Titus]

Have the dog vote. Confirm you are likely the dog.

Why does this matter so much?

Because I don't think you're the dog.

[Titus]

Have the dog vote. Confirm you are likely the dog.

Why does this matter so much?

Because I don't think you're the dog.

Who should I vote for?

Whoever you want lynched. Quote this chain. You have 15 minutes.

[Titus]

Have the dog vote. Confirm you are likely the dog.

Why does this matter so much?

Because I don't think you're the dog.

If your gambit did anything, it showed there are potential ties between LQ/Pistachion/Bright, and Wgeurts, BM, and myself. With that information, why is it unlikely that LQ controls the dog?

-Cerb

Because LQ said he doesn't have a powerful role and it's ok to lynch him.

LQ hasn't interacted or pushed the same people the dog is voting either.

It is possible by timezones but I actually think the dog is someone else. So having LQ post now is good.

[Titus]

Oh, and that reminds me, why didn't LQ answer this question?

@Why not use our abilities to full extent in order to catch scum?

@LQ Answer this question or I will assume that you're too afraid to answer it because it'll give you away as scum.

Sorry, but that is a stupid question Jeanne11. Its pretty obvious we should use our abilities to full extent to find Scum, but only if its going to lead to catching Scum and not creating crazy Wifom.

Here. Is part of it. The other is the total lack of fight against you're lynch.

We've already deduced role madness. You've stated such roles should be used to the best of their abilities so using the dog to start a counter wagon would be good.

You certainly have a scumread right?

Have you and your dog/dragon/whatever vote it.

[Titus]

@RR, Why would he hammer if his buddies won't bus and there are enough lurkers to where a deadline wagon can be swung?

That's exactly what your post is trying to have LQ do anyway despite you realizing the flaws in LQ's claim.

@LQ, I'm still waiting...vote anyone. Hell vote Varsoon is you can't even fathom a scumread.

[Titus]

@Jeanne, Just removing the last objection that way (redacted) can't come on and save his ass.

[Titus]

Can we get intent?

Not going to answer how a deadline wagon can be swung. Considering you tried to get LQ to start one on me, I'll presume you know how.

[Titus]

It's unlikely the dog's owner will come on in two hours given the timestamps.

If (redacted) is the dog owner and comes on, don't cc. Just hammer with the dog.

[Titus]

In fact, no one else should post as any reasonable player can eliminate quite a few players as the dog.

[Titus]

RR, what do you think of Bright voting Elbrin when you said we should kill the dog?

[Titus]

Why not just say that at the time?

[Titus]

Noting something's weird would encourage a town bright to communicate. You can observe something without knowing why it happened.

[Titus]

Can't you log in it?

No, I have to send a PM to Varsoon and he sends the action. I can't speak intelligibly I don't think. I can only make dragon noises.

I don't think this is accurate ISOing the mod and Brantz.

If so, why didn't you say so at the initial claim?

Whydid you not claim this restriction the first time I asked you to vote?

[Titus]

*Bright

[Titus]

Mod Vc please

[Titus]

Unless he's fake claimed a partner's role this is real

I have PMed the mod to get a Vc to see if LQ is lying.

If LQ has to pm the mod to get Bright to vote, then Varsoon must be here for his claim to be possibly true.

[Titus]

Any other restrictions LQ?

[Titus]

Can't you log in it?

No, I have to send a PM to Varsoon and he sends the action. I can't speak intelligibly I don't think. I can only make dragon noises.

I don't think this is accurate ISOing the mod and Brantz.

If so, why didn't you say so at the initial claim?

Whydid you not claim this restriction the first time I asked you to vote?

Because I didn't think it would actually make a difference. X2

If you're claiming a confirm able role, did you think we wouldn't test it?

[Titus]

*sigh* LQ consistently makes little enough sense that I can't just call his behavior scum, but none of this is verifiable. We know he controls the dragon, or he's scum and one of his teammates is just watching, and/or they have daytalk.

Need you to answer my questions now LQ.

-Cerb

Just what I was telling Jeanne but for the cannot call him scum part.

[Titus]

P.s. Jeanne and I have an active hood which makes day talk extremely likely.

[Titus]

@LQ, can you vote a scumread with bright and give a read wall? Ty.

[Titus]

@elbrin,

I want to find Snowball. Who do you think is Snowball? That evil traitor.

[Titus]

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon? And, LQ, you haven't told me why Jeanne is scum to you.

-Cerb

FOUR LEGS GOOD TWO LEGS BAD

Are you more or less equal than us comrade?

^ dis guy
Dis guy right here gits it

I agree with Ranger.

@RR Answer this: If LQ is town, why doesn't he know what AUA is?

I'm town and I didn't remember what AUA was until I reread my role pm so I'm calling it a null tell.

------

I find the fact that lq didn't immediately claim his restriction and didn't immediately pm the mod and didn't immediately vote is really fishy.

LQ what happens to the dragon if we lynch you?

Kari specifically asked LQ to read his PM and he still didn't know.

[Titus]

5 days is 120 hours. Anyone freaking out over possibly not lynching when we have someone at L-2 with 120 hours left is insane.

-Cerb

Can you actually push your scumreads Tia.

[Titus]

Thanks in advance.

[Titus]

@Mod, It's helpful to me for VCA. Nightly updates work just as well. :nod:

@Jeanne, Chill out. We will lynch. Why are you concerned with RR's lack of voting but not Elbrin's unvote?

Cool. I was worried, since I forgot to update it last time and it was a few VCs old.
I know a lot of folks just use the ISO feature.

[Titus]

Because RR is scum and Elbirn is not.

Bad reasoning and confbias.

While I agree that's very likely the case, you can't presume that slot Elbrin is town and he's town forever. Same with RR. If something pings in either direction, reassess. Elbrin's fencesitting on LQ doesn't make sense to me. He sees how LQ's claim is bad, but doesn't want LQ at L-1... huh?

[Titus]

Bad reasoning? If anyone has it, it's RR. He ignores all my posts, even the good ones, why again?

Because his theory is that you're insane and interacting with you isn't worth while. Take my tips. You'll sound a bit more sane. I don't come across as the most sane, but having such a high volume of posts repeating the same thing

when you're getting what you want

is what causes people to tune you out and want to be vigged.

[Titus]

Maybe I don't want to sound more sane, and you know why.

You're forgetting something which I will explain again.

[Titus]

@Mod, It's helpful to me for VCA. Nightly updates work just as well. :nod:

@Jeanne, Chill out. We will lynch. Why are you concerned with RR's lack of voting but not Elbrin's unvote?

Cool. I was worried, since I forgot to update it last time and it was a few VCs old.
I know a lot of folks just use the ISO feature.

Most of the time, I do as well, but it's nice to have the war and other events in one place for easier documentation when I set up my VCA post (if I get to)

[Titus]

Jumping in. Jeanne can swap her neighbor. When Suzune was speaking there, I was not.

[Titus]

Why? Suzune literally gets the same thread. Jeanne kicked me out put Suzune in and kicked me out. There's actually mention of this when I discussed inviting Suzune.

[Titus]

@suzune: I'm pretty sure titus is just batshit crazy and I've been playing along because it's funny XP You should try it, it's fun.

What's your favorite fruit suzie q?

@Elbrin, Her answer is irrelevant before the taxicab arrives.

Vote count please mid

Taxicab?

Taxicab?

Yup. Mulburries cannot walk on their own. They must be brought to to the table.

Taxicab?

*whispers* Have you spoken to the wizard?

Yes. Yes I have. The wizard is pretty smart. Better do what the wizard says.

[Titus]

@1521, Total garbage. I did have predictions and stated them. One of those is that scum would take the opportunity to hammer LQ if town. They didn't. If LQ is town, that points to scum knowing the anonymous was a lie.

Now you're expecting me to have the PM the mod sends before the trigger? Second, even if you're town, how you think scum would approach something isn't how all competent scum approach it. I've set up plenty of traps to catch scum and they work.

You're trying to divert from the shitfest that is LQ by moving the focus to a gambit that worked and has been discussed ad nauseum while a) not voting any living player in the game b) not pressuring the people you think aren't scumhunting and c) provoking drama to make Jeanne look bad.

As for helping Jeanne, helping her makes her MRE readable which helps anyone who tries.

So, I am waiting. Do you still think the dog is scum, or are you just sitting o your ass trying to piss no one off?

B-but it's a Dragon, Titus. D:
It's like you didn't even play Suikoden II or III.

[Titus]

Stop spamming with irrelevant shit and not answering questions.

[Titus]

@1521, Total garbage. I did have predictions and stated them. One of those is that scum would take the opportunity to hammer LQ if town. They didn't. If LQ is town, that points to scum knowing the anonymous was a lie.

Now you're expecting me to have the PM the mod sends before the trigger? Second, even if you're town, how you think scum would approach something isn't how all competent scum approach it. I've set up plenty of traps to catch scum and they work.

You're trying to divert from the shitfest that is LQ by moving the focus to a gambit that worked and has been discussed ad nauseum while a) not voting any living player in the game b) not pressuring the people you think aren't scumhunting and c) provoking drama to make Jeanne look bad.

As for helping Jeanne, helping her makes her MRE readable which helps anyone who tries.

So, I am waiting. Do you still think the dog is scum, or are you just sitting o your ass trying to piss no one off?

[Titus]

What's the "false dichotomy"?

[Titus]

@RR, There is plenty of reason to vote. You're not a noob. We don't no lynch Day 1 especially with LQ playing like he is. Klingon not posting. You could make a point on Jeanne. Back up your me read you waffle on.

You voting for the dog is meaningless. You voting for LQ is not. You said the dog's owner is scummy and the dog's owner is likely scum. The dog owner claims and you want to try and start policy wagons on me and Jeanne (but you briefly state LQ's probably scum so I am town).

On Klingon, you think she's not scumhunting but are content to let it go.

BM, Useless vapid posts...you let go.


Voting shows you act. Charisma is just words. Right now, I could see you going whatever way the wind blows.

;_;
I'm gonna come to your games and insist that your flavor characters are dogs and see how you like it.

[Titus]

He dies Elb.

Hm.

UNVOTE:

You're not off the hook by a long shot, I'm just not happy with you sitting at l-1 atm.

There was a hammer right before this.

What do you thin the VC was?

[Titus]

"Come on! Show me what a man you've become!"

-Teo McDohl,

Suikoden I

VOTECOUNT 1.08

LicketyQuickety (5):

Suzune, Ranger, Firekari, Titus, Jeane11

Elbirn (2):

pistachi0n, BRantz

Titus (1):

Bright

Blackest Magick (1):

Elbirn

Jeanne11 (1):

LicketyQuickety

Klingoncelt (1):

wgeurts

Not Voting (3):

Klingoncelt, Reasonably Rational, Blackest Magick

With 14 Alive, it takes 8 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2015-11-11 18:55:00)

"Take care. Live your life to the fullest... for my sake too."

-Ted,

Suikoden I

VOTECOUNT 1.09

LicketyQuickety (4):

Suzune, Ranger, Firekari, Jeane11

Jeanne11 (3):

LicketyQuickety, pistachi0n, Bright

Titus (3):

Blackest Magick, Reasonably Rational, wgeurts

Ranger (1):

Klingoncelt

Elbirn (1):

BRantz

Blackest Magick (1):

Elbirn

Not Voting (1):

Titus

With 14 Alive, it takes 8 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2015-11-11 18:55:00)
My access will be very limited for the rest of the day. Please understand.

Alright, so no votes happened in between these VC's. We can see what happened in the melee.

Also, we should kill the damn dog, or at least figure out if the damn dog is even killable. I don't know if anybody else noticed that, but there are 14 players alive, including Bright, which isn't in the player list, and is CLEARLY some sort of method of anonymous double voting.

VOTE: Bright


-Cerb

I will give you the benefit of the doubt here and state you're not voting Bright because you pretend to think Bright is scum. With all your "I am only going to use my vote sparingly" crap, you can't seriously argue you didn't think the dog was scum here.

[Titus]

I am trying to sort people. I sort people by who they vote. You're camping on the sidelines.

[Titus]

<quote chop>I find it hard to imagine, regardless of what Titus says about roles, that a mediator kind of roll feel into the hands of a mafia.

<quote chop>

What's the difference between this and Jeanne's claim?

UNVOTE: LQ

[Titus]

VOTE: Titus

More and more you're reminding me of HU2 Titus.

Your scu buddies call you to vote me? There's a claim and leading wagon for you to comment on.

[Titus]

VOTE: LQ

Fuck it. Today needs to end.

[Titus]

VOTE: LQ

Fuck it. Today needs to end.

Given the claim I have you still vote for me.

VOTE: Titus

"The future is not unchangeable."

-Leeknat,

Suikoden I

VOTECOUNT 1.19

LicketyQuickety (6):

Ranger, Suzune, Firekari, pistachi0n, Jeanne11, Titus

Titus (3):

Klingoncelt, wgeurts, LicketyQuickety

Ranger (1):

Blackest Magick

Bright (1):

Reasonably Rational

Blackest Magick (1):

BRantz

wgeurts (1):

Bright

Not Voting (1):

Elbirn

With 14 Alive, it takes 8 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2015-11-11 18:55:00)

It's a Dragon!

Yup. I vote scum.

Dumb question, the counter on me is the only one with any chance to you. We both know this (RR will vote, BM may). So why didn't you have the dragon dog vote? Are you afraid of too many scum at once?

It's ok if I get lynched though because all the scum will have to get on, end masse to lynch me. Now if that doesn't confirm all I have been saying about LQ scum, I don't know what will.

(Love you Varsoon)

P.S. I still doubt LQ is the dog.

I give up. You guys win. Dragon, Dog, whatever.

[Titus]

The following is a bah post with no game or flavor or coded relevance.

Titus (Apple) plotted all day and fought to lynch the scum, but knew her time was short. That was her job to plan. She also knows what happens to good planners. They die. So Titus went out to have a good time dancing at the pub. If she was going to die, she was going to have fun, so she did.

Good game everyone. I will be over in dead chat.

[Titus]

Good job everyone.

I have to admit masons do trigger as false positives as scum but I am proud of this town and town game. Really proud.

[Titus]

I told Varsoon was I pick someone like me for my submission. I was not disappointed.

[Titus]

Masons are the one thing that gives me false positives IMO.

For Cerb

Jeanne I could read because she looked a lot like my first games here and Nethersprite's finished mini theme. She has the same temperament. Sure I doubted her at times, but I saw someone desperate to be lead. If you look at Bowser's mafia large theme, you'll see a lot of the same issues Jeanne has.

Elbrin picked up the shitty RVS vote on me by BM. His call out, subtly that he thought we were masons helped. The fact he called me and Jeanne conftown and was willing to claim helped. It really allowed me to see strategy which I felt Elbrin scum would never do. Second, scum wouldn't be locked into a fake claim that early.

Suzune engages very little as scum. Here, I could get inside her thoughts, track her and she was consistent. I had fail safes in case she was scum but I didn't think I would need them.

The vote plan comes from how I approach the game. I know how the collective votes.

[Titus]

Oh and policy lynch Klingon if she doesn't take strong positions D1.

[Titus]

Oh I forgot Fire was town cuz gut. :-p

[Titus]

But Titus is always scum.

[Titus]

Sorry about the dog thing Varsoon. Kept getting confused with my own game. I had Sparky the dog.

[Titus]

So he's a dragon? Cool. [/joke]

I was actually super, super confused when everyone in-thread was calling Bright a dog. I even checked my role PM multiple times, going... "But...aren't

I

the dog?" I kept silence about it since I didn't want to give any flavor clues about what marking did, but needless to say, it was something I was constantly wondering about.

The dog thing was me recalling Sparky from dead of winter and fixating. Lols.

[Titus]

I want to nominate this town for a scummy, but I am afraid it will be vain.

[Titus]

@Drixx, I take things literally.

We had a debate about you voting Klingon. I said something like, well if you hate the LQ wagon, you could vote Klingon. You said no. Later you defended Klingon and said you wanted a draw. I didn't realize it was your own gambit because I take things literally and I have seen town throw away so many wins.

Oh hey we're nommed for best town performance.

[Titus]

"Come on! Show me what a man you've become!"

-Teo McDohl,

Suikoden I

VOTECOUNT 1.08

LicketyQuickety (5):

Suzune, Ranger, Firekari, Titus, Jeane11

Elbirn (2):

pistachi0n, BRantz

Titus (1):

Bright

Blackest Magick (1):

Elbirn

Jeanne11 (1):

LicketyQuickety

Klingoncelt (1):

wgeurts

Not Voting (3):

Klingoncelt, Reasonably Rational, Blackest Magick

With 14 Alive, it takes 8 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2015-11-11 18:55:00)

"Take care. Live your life to the fullest... for my sake too."

-Ted,

Suikoden I

VOTECOUNT 1.09

LicketyQuickety (4):

Suzune, Ranger, Firekari, Jeane11

Jeanne11 (3):

LicketyQuickety, pistachi0n, Bright

Titus (3):

Blackest Magick, Reasonably Rational, wgeurts

Ranger (1):

Klingoncelt

Elbirn (1):

BRantz

Blackest Magick (1):

Elbirn

Not Voting (1):

Titus

With 14 Alive, it takes 8 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2015-11-11 18:55:00)
My access will be very limited for the rest of the day. Please understand.

I said town should vote Jeanne or LQ.

Elbrin voted scum to avoid quickhammer. I unvoted for the same reason.
Klingoncelt had unexplained vote on Ranger and was scum.
BM had unexplained vote on me. He was scum.
LQ and Bright both piled onto the town mislynch of choice, Jeanne. They were scum.
The masons acted as a false positive because they chatted with each other and got defensive. Masons tend to be false positives in my scumhunting but scum did exactly what I expected by either voting the mislynch of choice wagon or casting useless votes if LQ was scum.

[Titus]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p7443245

That's the scummy nomination link.

[Titus]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p7443245

That's the scummy nomination link.

why are you ignoring me now?

I didn't see a question. link me?

[Titus]

I maintain that I was not rolefishing :/

You can. Not true though.

That's exactly how Drixx views my slip btw. Each their own.

[Titus]

I'm probably going to go ahead with the Steven Universe Prequel game first.
I can only really handle modding a single game at a time right now and that one is the closest to being finished.
I typed up rolecards and made all sorts of promotional imagery for it. :3

Too bad it's a mini-theme and my Pre-ins are probably already full without me realizing it.
It's not like advertising or doing all this work will make it go through the queue any faster.

I really shouldn't put so much effort into my games, most people probably don't notice or care.

LET ME PLAY!
(Will now proceed to exit the thread.)

Me too, I want rematch for Inorganic Chemistry.

[Titus]

There's also girls-only mafia game, currently in pre-ins.....I think? I am definitely interested in playing that one when sign-ups open.

I wanted to pre-in but I couldn't think of three women relevant to Titus

[Titus]

If I were to choose, it'd be Jean Grey from X-Men. I really loved that show and her name is short version of mine.

That's yours for when you in.

[Titus]

Haha, it's all good. I was amused by the dog thing more than bothered by it.

I love all you guys, and, c'mon, Pre-ins can only ever take up 1/2 the players.

/pre-in for everything, then!

Yeah...i should have.
I mostly just talked to Yukari in our hydra chat about game, bouncing ideas back and forth.

If I participated more, it probably would have been to post fluff jokes

Who wants that? I mean, besides me.

Me. Probably would have invited you over Suzune with a good fluff joke or two more.

[Titus]

><
Titus, you're on review-crew, you can't play!

Pre-ins are full for SU:Prequel, but I'll still take note of anyone who'd like for me to send them a PM when it's going into actual factual signups.
As of now, it's about to go into the queue (just waiting on a few more checks/balances from reviewers).

I should have comments ready in 24 hours.

[Titus]

Klingoncelt had unexplained vote on Ranger and was scum.

I explained it a lot.

But the true reason was that no way in hell would I go with any Town gambits.

Post flip yeah but the Ranger thing came out of left field prewar.

If you wanted to fuck with my plan, bussing LQ would have been the move. :-p

[Titus]

I think my primary goals in setup design (after making sure it would fit the flavor) were to ensure that town's roles were independently weak (except masons, imo) but that they would gain strength if used in clever and synergistic ways. I also wanted to give the scumteam what seemed like a strong set of protective roles for a variety of reasons (most of which I have already outlined), especially to give a false sense of town's actual strength.

I have to say that I was happy with my role, although I was the closest thing to a VT. It was on the surface anti-town as fuck, but allowed town scheming Titus to be really pro town. Very me, and that's what I asked for.