Open 579: Pick Your (Chocolate) Power -- Game Over

insanity018 · Post Post #925 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:06 pm

Votecount 2.7

Venrob

(4): Formerfish, wgeurts, Alchemist21, TheAdrienC

wgeurts

(2): Ankamius, Venrob

TheAdrienC

(2): droog, farside22

Formerfish

(1): Aneninen

Alchemist21

(1): Flubbernugget

Not Voting

(2): VictorDeAngelo, Mathdino

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2014-12-22 22:00:00)

Formerfish · Post Post #926 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:21 pm

Anen seems to be in the same category.

Alchemist21 · Post Post #927 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:15 pm

In post 916, Aneninen wrote:
In post 893, VictorDeAngelo wrote:I have arrived.
Anyone want to recap events for me?

(0) Hi there!
(1) Siv was mislynched. He had claimed VT before and also told that he had gone for Doc but it had been taken before him.
(2) The counterwagons were Alchemist and me. My soft-claim was 679.
(3) Davesaz got Nightkilled, flipped Jailkeeper.
(4) AdrienC and Venrob are the main suspects right now. (Maybe Wgeurts too?)
(5) Your slot was scumread by some of us, mostly by me, at the beginning of Day1. The case was dropped, I don't think anyone's scumreading your slot right now.
(6) The players are active in general, or at least, there are some active players all the time. Although, the activity of "particular players" is fluctuating.

Everyone, have I missed something important?

Who are the "particular players" and wy did you choose to put emphasis on that term?

Alchemist21 · Post Post #928 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:16 pm

I'm going to go kick myself in the ass now for mispelling the word "why."

Flubbernugget · Post Post #929 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:33 pm

Guys a venrob lynch is nice

But an adrian lynch is nicer.

Formerfish · Post Post #930 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:35 pm

Yet your vote is on Alch...

Alchemist21 · Post Post #931 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:14 pm

In post 929, Flubbernugget wrote:Guys a venrob lynch is nice

But an adrian lynch is nicer.

So I'm guessing at least one of these two is your scumbuddy?

Mathdino · Post Post #932 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:00 pm

Alright, after much thought and 0 catching up, I'm going to
VOTE: Ankamius

Will explain more later, along with rereading the thread and some reads lists based on the draft order.

Just realised something as well: If Hayate Yagami's slot is scum, it leaves open the possibility of 2 scum picking the same number, so we'll have to watch out for that just in case. Also note that davesaz continued to push the notion that no one is conftown due to picking the same number as scum.

Mathdino · Post Post #933 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:01 pm

Also, Aneninen is town, fuck you if you ask why. I find it likely there was scum on his wagon, but I can't remember who was on his wagon so I'll go and check real quick.

Mathdino · Post Post #934 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:04 pm

In post 675, insanity018 wrote:
Votecount 1.17

Siveure DtTrikyp
(5): Alchemist21, Ankamius, davesaz, Venrob, wgeurts

Aneninen
(4): Amy Farrah Fowler, droog, Siveure DtTrikyp, Formerfish

Alchemist21
(3): farside22, Mathdino, Flubbernugget

Not Voting
(2): Aneninen, TheAdrienC

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline
: (expired on 2014-12-07 08:00:00)

Aneninen is LA
Venrob is V/LA until December 8
Amy Farrah Fowler is V/LA until December 7

Siv's town, Former's town. droog as a townread has been weakening lately out of gut, but of these, I think Amy's slot is the most likely scum on Anen's wagon. It's possible that both Amy AND droog are scum actually, having not picked the same number, but I'm shelving that for now.

FoS: Amy

ALSO I'M BACK IN BUSINESS FOLKS, GIMME A SEC FOR A READS LIST.
PUMPED.
WOOT.

Alchemist21 · Post Post #935 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:33 pm

Glad to have you back.

I still think Ank is Town based on my prior experience with him.

ISO · Post Post #936 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:04 pm

In post 933, Mathdino wrote:Also, Aneninen is town, fuck you if you ask why. I find it likely there was scum on his wagon, but I can't remember who was on his wagon so I'll go and check real quick.

Why?

Mathdino · Post Post #937 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:13 am

In post 5, insanity018 wrote:
Alchemist21
- 4

davesaz - 6

Ankamius
, Hayate Yagami - 8

Siveure DtTrikyp - 13

Venrob
- 15

Aneninen
- 1

Formerfish
, Romitelli - 1

Victor
, Amy Farrah Fowler - 3

farside22
- 3

Mathdino - 5

wgeurts
- 5

Flubbernugget
- 2

Adrien
, gangsta_duck41 - 2

droog
- 2

This is not going to be in a sensible order. I'm going to wipe all previous reads I had for these purposes, since I've since forgotten why exactly I was suspecting Alch/Anen for if Siv flipped town. Also need to check who actually supported that associative of mine since I find it likely they're all town by now.

Aneninen

: TOWN, FUCK YOUR WAGON

Alchemist

: 51 is a good attempt to sort alignments based on meta. His vote on wgeurts was my initial reason to scumread him. Note: Alchemist and wgeurts are NOT scum together, that was not a distancing vote and it follows very well from his early game. And his results, while not full of substance, are legit. Given that he and wgeurts aren't scum together, 177 also looks pretty legit in that Alch chose to scumread things other than the meta point I brought up.
209 is interesting.
Actually never mind I reread it a couple times and it looks pretty town. Moving on.
Alright, so 284 I

think

was my initial reason for saying there was scum in {Alchemist, Siveure}; it seems policy lynch-ish. Tabling this for now.
Wait shit never mind it was 320.
Wow I was stupid for continuing to suspect Alchemist for that (THIS FOLKS IS WHY YOU REREAD).
See, the problem with Alscumist saying something like that is the statement makes no fucking sense. Siveure clearly did not get his chosen role, and Alchemist appeared to prepare to go after defenders that never ended up appearing. Also, the entire preparation was nullified with Siv's flip.
Stand by the sentiment that Alchemist reacted very townishly to being almost lynched.
D2 play: Nothing stands out. The comment on Siveure's wagon probably containing all town is very strange to me but unless all 3 scum are on the wagon I don't see much scum motivation in it.

wgeurts

: why the fuck did i call him town (note to self: go find out why)
i was expecting to write a towncase on him
goddammit
134 was a sketchy unvote that seemed concerned about people's perception of him. Then he called Flubber's vote on Amy opportunistic. But then I did a thing and ctrl+F'd "Amy" in his ISO. Guess what? I found a whole lot of him talking about Amy's wagon and votes on Amy but NOT ONCE did he give a single read on her. And then in 763 he encourages votes on Amy but still gives no thoughts on her.

What's your read on Amy? Not her replacement, what's your read on her?

This overconfidence on Siveure is exactly the thing I was seeing in his scum game. And then his response to my argument in 379... even if his misconception was true, it's still the strangest thing to scumread and it's pretty opportunistic. His conception was essentially "You call me town and are buddying me but you say I'm scum no matter what Siv flips." Like these are fundamentally incompatible and there's no scum motivation in doing those things in the first place.
In 441 he gives his top scumreads: {Siveure, Romitelli, Adrien}. The first 2 are town, haven't read Adrien so idk about that. Then in 445 he follows up on his earlier reads list with some meta on Flubber, Siv, Romi, and Adrien. A lot of it was without substance honestly and was entirely unconvincing. Seems more for the purpose of justifying wgeurts's reads than for presenting said reads to the thread.
Then his comments on me weird me out: "Damn it dino, don't make us lynch you in my third(?) game with you." "You're doing a good job of making people suspicious, I think it's however incorrect. The amount of effort you're putting in would be odd as scum."
His unvote and vote of Siveure actually ring pretty town to me. No one voted Siveure in between, and all that really did happen to influence that was Siveure wagon hopping. So it DOES make sense from a town POV.
D2 play: I have no idea what the fuck he's doing. Like almost every single post is bad or scummy in some way. I can expand on this if anyone likes but his D2 play is material that'd make me go for the "too scummy to be scum" argument. I'm not sure what to think. So I'll keep my vote on Ankamius and leave wgeurts as actually way scummier than I thought he was.

MORE NEXT POST

Mathdino · Post Post #938 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:13 am

In post 936, wgeurts wrote:
In post 933, Mathdino wrote:Also, Aneninen is town, fuck you if you ask why. I find it likely there was scum on his wagon, but I can't remember who was on his wagon so I'll go and check real quick.

Why?

fuck you

Mathdino · Post Post #939 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:16 am

In post 260, Mathdino wrote:
In post 241, davesaz wrote:Any special reason you didn't act on this idea of pressuring people? I find it to be very passive, and the one liners since then are even worse.
VOTE: wgeurts
In post 249, Siveure DtTrikyp wrote:UNVOTE: amy farrah fowler

Really not feeling this wagon any more.

I don't think conflicting or contradictory opinions makes her scummy, and there's not an enormous amount otherwise.

Also, Anen's latest post looks really confbiasy. So what if she's not scumhunting?

IN OTHER NEWS, dave has put down a non-rvs vote. This is BIG NEWS. Lets support this!

VOTE: wgeurts
In post 251, Flubbernugget wrote:VOTE: guts

Sheeping dino. I town read him and I suck at mafia right now.

This was too easy. Getting cold feet about the wgeurts wagon. I think there's scum in the above.
UNVOTE: wgeurts
Call it pseudoscience but wagons form easier on town than on scum. Gonna think about this and regroup.

Jesus, talk about confirmation bias. Looks like since I haven't reread the game at all my reads have been more static than I'd like.

It goes without saying that 2 of those people were town and my gut and heebjeebies were probably wrong.

Mathdino · Post Post #940 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:42 am

Adrien:

Lurker, but nothing really stands out to me and his thought process looks natural, so can someone explain why he's being scumread? I haven't read through D2 in chrono order, so ignore that if there's already been an answer. Probably town.

Romitelli/Formerfish:

Romitelli was a lurker, but he replaced out so that activity issue is pretty much null. In a vacuum, 159 and 234 look good though, the main issue was the fact that he wasn't engaged in the main issues. So that leans slightly town.
Formerfish's first catchup post was very townish (I won't say good since I disagree with some points, but it's townish) and fits my overall impression of him: Wants to get reads. He's been consistent with this for the entirety of D2. His tunneling of Venrob is kind of annoying but I haven't looked over Venrob yet so I'll see if that has merit. Not really consistent with scum, his play. Town.

Amy/Victor:

k so I forewent trying to read Amy after the initial suspicion due to our nice power trio of wagons {Alchemist, Aneninen, Siveure} getting all the attention. The fact of the matter is, Amy's early play is still scummy, and the funniest thing is the reason I suspected her for that stuff was that Victor acted the exact same way in his early scumgame: Throwing out strange questions without really giving reads and general mudslinging. And it took until ISO #8, post 74 for her to actually go and say that she was considering some actions scummy.
Then 201 is a really scummy defence due to the strawmanning and the question about research. And then 206 was actually pretty good. And then her response to Aneninen in 239 seems pretty consistent with town (note: not inconsistent with scum necessarily). And then she ends her ISO with some fairly scummy posts, dominated by her general inability to form scumreads except on Romitelli and Aneninen who are town. Leaning scum.

Flubbernugget:

I'm compelled to be consistent with my logic about the Amy/wgeurts/Siveure wagons but honestly, this guy, while annoying, is probably town. His D2 play is again, annoying, but probably town.
Flubbernugget please contribute more, this isn't a free pass to keep pulling that shit.

Venrob:

Ugh, okay, this ISO is bad, but this is another kind of guy I'd like to meta before I even attempt to read this shit. He's probably not scum with wgeurts, so by associatives town, otherwise, null.

Has anyone played with Venrob before?

oh joy now i have to read ISOs of droog(spamposter)/farside(wallposter)
I'M GOING IN FOLKS
WISH ME LUCK
OH GOD NOOOOOOO

Formerfish · Post Post #941 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:51 am

Of course when people finally decide to post content I am at work and can't read. That being said if anyone wants to stop by we have fresh zeppoli. I hope to get to this tonight but I might just go home and crawl back into bed man. Fuck, I think someone just burned up all the Alfredo.

More votes on Venrob please. Someone seriously needs to get to jocking the bitches and slapping the hoes in this thread. Step the fuck up people.

farside22 · Post Post #942 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:08 am

Dino: your going to have to explain that town read on adrien better.
All I see is a player voting and explaining Jack shit.

Fishy: I'm tempted to visit Pittsburg, but it's a bit further then I want to go for food.
We go as far as erie when heading into pa.

VictorDeAngelo · Post Post #943 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:43 am

In post 916, Aneninen wrote:
In post 893, VictorDeAngelo wrote:I have arrived.
Anyone want to recap events for me?

(0) Hi there!
(1) Siv was mislynched. He had claimed VT before and also told that he had gone for Doc but it had been taken before him.
(2) The counterwagons were Alchemist and me. My soft-claim was 679.
(3) Davesaz got Nightkilled, flipped Jailkeeper.
(4) AdrienC and Venrob are the main suspects right now. (Maybe Wgeurts too?)
(5) Your slot was scumread by some of us, mostly by me, at the beginning of Day1. The case was dropped, I don't think anyone's scumreading your slot right now.
(6) The players are active in general, or at least, there are some active players all the time. Although, the activity of "particular players" is fluctuating.

Everyone, have I missed something important?

Cheers for this. I will get going with a full reread but it doesn't seem like there is much outside the flips I need to worry about. With 6 days til deadline I should be caught before the end of Day (assuming people aren't in a huge rush to lynch).

VictorDeAngelo · Post Post #944 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:30 am

Alright let's see what happened.

Spoiler: For some reasons I suddenly have a craving for something sweet

Meh, I can't get the energy together to do anymore right now.

Alchemist21 · Post Post #945 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:42 am

I'm not sure how I feel about that above post. I know Victor has to catch up, but it looks like instead of focusing on reading and catching up, he put more energy into questioning things that have been answered already. Most, if not all, of the questions he asks can be found by reading through the thread.

Formerfish · Post Post #946 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:51 am

I just am not a fan of catch ups like that. To broken and disjointed. I really don't want to have to click a hyperlink to see what he is referencing and then decifer his posts to actually make sense. And how can he possibly keep track of who answers what questions. I don't see him actually looking for answers here, just acting like he is.

Aneninen · Post Post #947 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:21 am

Okay, Formerfish, just answer this.
Your main scumread is Venrob. Given that he's reaching on your scum-o-meter 10, who's your next scumread and what kind of value would he/she reach?

Mathdino · Post Post #948 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:30 am

In post 942, farside22 wrote:Dino: your going to have to explain that town read on adrien better.
All I see is a player voting and explaining Jack shit.

I can't really explain what 'natural thought process' means. In context, Adrien's been the opposite of active. I'm not sure how much of a scumtell that is. Regardless, if you look through his ISO, he explained his Flubber vote, had good thoughts on the Siv wagon, 593 in particular is good, and I don't really see anything unexplained about his D2 play, seems pretty consistent with town.
Explain your scumread and I might listen. How would you explain how he acted around the Siv/Alchemist/Aneninen wagons? At the moment I'm treating these 3 as all town, keep in mind, so lemme know if your perspective differs.

In post 945, Alchemist21 wrote:I'm not sure how I feel about that above post. I know Victor has to catch up, but it looks like instead of focusing on reading and catching up, he put more energy into questioning things that have been answered already. Most, if not all, of the questions he asks can be found by reading through the thread.

In post 946, Formerfish wrote:I just am not a fan of catch ups like that. To broken and disjointed. I really don't want to have to click a hyperlink to see what he is referencing and then decifer his posts to actually make sense. And how can he possibly keep track of who answers what questions. I don't see him actually looking for answers here, just acting like he is.

Can definitely agree with this. I'll respond to each of his individual points in a sec but these kinds of strangely suspicious questions that don't really point out scummy things are both how Amy played and how he played in O575 (wgeurts, would appreciate your thoughts on this).

Mehhh. I don't feel like PbPing farside and droog. They're probably town regardless, with farside as one of my weakest townreads and droog as a medium one.

Mathdino · Post Post #949 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:40 am

In post 944, VictorDeAngelo wrote:Droog - I've never seen anyone PEdit in rvs just to get on wagon.

Have you seen scum do this?

9 - MathDino - This is my first time playing this setup, but I find it noteworthy that you tried to get a good draft slot even if you failed.

Wow. It's this kind of question that almost tries to paint something as scummy just because it stands out. He did the same thing in 575 when I asked for someone's meta early on and he's like "I find it weird that you're asking for meta this early".

13 - Droog - I read this question as Droog missing Rom's rvs and trying to go after for it.

Legit.

19 - MathDino - On a scale of 1-10 how serious was this?

Pretty serious. The above had a seriousness level of 2, btw.

20 - Droog - Yeah he did think, which seems odd considering he intentionally shifted his vote to follow Rom.

30 - MathDino - Dislike this thinking from MathDino. Town have as much reason to want those roles as scum.

Strange how evidence proves you wrong.

32 - MathDino - So every scumteam picked Jailkeeper. That seems like the one constant you should have picked up on.

I did pick up on this. Unfortunately tracker is also a strong role and is also likely to be picked by town. Meanwhile, vig/vengeful, not so much.

34 - Hayate - You see this is the kind of analyse I like.

35 - MathDino - And this roletalk has gone past the point of useful ice breaker to the point of trying to tease role info. Lean on scum on MD.

???

41 - MathDino - And you jit just keeps getting worse.

?????

44 - MathDino - This post just seemed like an attempt to throw down some artificial reads so he go after Amy. I kinda feel like she had something.

Your confbias is showing. Guessing you're scum though.

45 - Farside - Like this post from Farside.

62 - Alchemist21 - Where the blue hell did this vote come from?

Already answered.

63 - MathDino - That said, he got an interesting response from Dino. It kinda reads like a defense.

Except it doesn't. At all. Enjoying how almost every post I made back then was scummy.

97 - Alchemist21 - What made you think Wgeurts wouldn't get involved in theory talk? And why haven't you been able to form any reads yet?

100 - droog - Why was this relvent?

102 - Anenin - Huh? She said the roles were not scummy, why is it that she ignored the fact that taking the roles prevents scum from having them, rather than either that she didn't mention choose to mention it or simply consider it. I was a little unsure before but I think you were simply looking to jump on a popular wagon in 98.

115 - MathDino - Now why are you so keen on rvs behaviour? Have you ever caught scum through rvs?

Okay this REALLY stands out to me. Above after 97 you ask Alchemist why he had no reads yet, but now you're criticising my trying to get very early reads. NICE. GOING. I don't remember if I've ever caught scum through RVS, but it's a damn nice place to start instead of being useless, no?

118 - Anenenin - This condensed case feels forced, and seems like overcompensation to explain why he was on the Amy wagon.

So on one hand, I was making a forced attempt to throw down artificial reads, and on the other hand, Aneninen is overcompensating and putting TOO MUCH to explain why he was voting you? You're kidding.

Please note my response to 115.