Mini 1504 - Antihero Mafia REBOOT [GAME OVER]

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Hi hi I am replacing... somebody. I am at work right now but reading on my breaks. I would like to give my thoughts before someone hammers as I don't yet know what has happened. Can you guys give me until like... 8pm EST tonight?

Be back then with reads and stuff.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

EspeciallyTheLies replaces Splintered Shadow, effective immediately.

WELCOME HER, JERKWADS, OR INCUR MY WRATH.

ETL, please confirm by posting an insult to a player of your choice from this player list.

Oh hey I missed this.

Majiffy is a pooperhead.

I'm on page 5 or something. Useless caca so far. Or at least I cant get anything useful out of it. I like molliehydrathing and pigeon guy and someone else I cant think of the name atm (mobile).

I don't like darthe or grim or jkguy.

Probably premature but checking in. Continuing my reading now (lunch break).

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Still reading. As a side note, my manager is a dick and we now have to work tomorrow so... Lynch who you guys want as I am nowhere near ready to make any cases and my Saturday morning internet time has now been stolen from me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ETL chooses me because we already have a QT together describing ways Majiffy can go fuck himself

Damn, you're good. Chose you without even seeing this.

Update: I'm on page 15 (every fuckin time I get a few more pages further yall post 10 more). Also angrybird, lay off my style. If my bubbly helpful nature is all you can come up with to scumread me when I was all of 4 pages in then I suggest you go back to the newbie queue. <3

Ok, so as of page 14ish or whatever, Grim Reaper's post are really bugging me something fierce. Consider him my top suspect at the moment. I'll clarify and post full reads list as soon as I finish catching up tonight.

On Majiffy v. Flying Beauties: I get good feels from mollie's posts and they remind me of her town games. At first, I was pretty willing to trust her read on Majiffy (and honestly, going in, if she didn't give me scum vibes, I was hoping to get a peg on jiffy from her), except now I kind of feel like she's been tunneling. As far as his alignment goes, I have no fucking clue, but if one of him and angrybird is scum, I think the other would be town only because I don't see scum so openly buddying a partner, and the buddy buddy shit between the two of them is strange to say the least. Both could be town but I

don't

think both could be scum.

Ummmm what else.... that's all for now off the top of my head and I'll have more later.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Oh hey there's a VC on this page.

UNVOTE:

[EspeciallyTheLies]

"A justification for not posting very much" lol... there's like 35 pages and I just replaced in. Suspecting the slot is fine and all, but don't then try to rationalize my intro post as anything more than that. Also, I did not get the impression that he was suspecting you, unless that occurred after page 15, so shush until I'm done with that.

Maybe you should re-read the first 15 pages to see where I'm coming from. You'd think someone who's been in the game from the beginning would realize that is my perspective thus far and remember what they have already read. I'm not "trying to start something petty" with you. It was a joke, nothing more. Pin your balls back in and stop overreacting.

I was willing to trust Mollie's read on Majiffy, contingent on whether I felt she was town or not, because I know she knows him and I know she's a good player. I don't know a lot of the people on the player list and the mod mentioned both of them when he asked me to replace. I knew they were going to be here, and I knew I'd be able to lean on one of them for a read on the other. Also, I never said she wasn't credible, I said I got the feeling that she has been tunneling, because after about page 9 or so, it didn't seem like she was willing to consider any other possibility. However, that doesn't negate her original impression of him this game, so it's something I'm willing to work with. It's important to be open enough to trust your town reads, and mollie is one of them.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'M NOT READYYY.....

On page 23. Mollie-angel still my top town read. Varsoon has eclipsed grim in scummyfuckscumminess. Darthe also not high on the town list (quite low actually) due to useless posts and not enough active hunting. Most others are null/require ISO (which I have been putting off until I finish thread). Though.. i like lying cat and pasch for townish right now based on good conversation about their reads and discussing with others openly.

More to come later tonight.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

How is it taking you this long to read the thread?!?

Could you explain your pasch town read

~G

lol... because I replaced into about 5 games, am getting ready to mod 2, and boss pulled some last minute mandatory overtime bullshit so i have less time than i expected. But once i'm all caught up it will be fine.

For pasch, it was more about the motivation behind the questions he (she?) was asking on d1, or at least, perceived motivation. I dont agree with all of his reads but i understand the thinking behind them because he took the time to explain himself. I would say my reads on pasch and lying cat are more gut, but its good.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Also minecraft. I have a problem.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Welp.
VOTE: AP

y

Bcz scumz jiffylube.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

this is who fear and loading were sus of:

varsoon
beli
pasch
ap

eta: @ etl - if you think he is scum then why are you not voting him?

Cuz I want the whole picture first. There may be something between page 24 and end of D1 that could help me understand the slot better, and I wanna get some ISOs done on a couple people first. I don't wanna waste my time putting a case together when I don't have all the info, and I'd rather vote when I have a case.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Welp.
VOTE: AP

y

Bcz scumz jiffylube.

buh y

I'll let Varscum answer this, though I don't expect much since he doesn't have a good history of actually explaining anything.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Sorry. That wasn't actually my intention, but that is increasingly becoming my opinion thus far.

By the by, just reached Grim's 638 fairy tale on page 26. I pride myself on reading every single word and rereading until I get it... cuz I'm slow sometimes... but I'm not reading that.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Grim, why don't you give me the cliff's notes version?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I DID IT GAIZ. I finished the thread <3<3<3

Now on to business. >:(

Varsoon:

His attitude this game has been apathetic, pitiful, and full of AtE. He has called himself out for being useless as if that somehow negates any suspicion it might cause. He tries to excuse it all away with "I'm busy" and "I'm lame", and expects to be given a pass (which he was). I get that people get busy and life gets in the way, but to that end, I also believe every player has an obligation to the other players to allow someone who is able to put effort into the game do so. But he doesn't. So, either he's extremely inconsiderate and selfish town, or he's scum using "RL" to excuse his blatant uselessness.

Spoiler: Reasons why Varsoon cannot give evidence, support his "reads", explain his votes

Gonna spend more time with this when I get a moment.

@PASHCE:

I'm not cautious, just belligerent and busy.

@FLYING BEAUTIES:

Yo, Mollie, I don't quite like your appeal to ethos in 222. I've been skeptical of you for this whole game, but that's because I'm -always- skeptical of you. How do you feel about AP, and what insight can you give me about how your hydra partner plays?

-V

(What I found interesting about this one is that he didn't even mention angelmollie until the above post.)

Then again, maybe I need to sit down with this game, look over all the posts, and stew with it for awhile before hitting the submit button here.
Nah.

Guess I'll have to get in here and do some work soon.

I'm not doing my best, that's for sure.

I'm pretty busy now, but I'll try to post something worthwhile later today.

@Grim: I'll elaborate a bit more when I get some time to do so.

However, the biggest reason I believe Varsoon is scum is the way he acted towards the end of JKLM's lynch.

Spoiler: Varsoon calls JKLM townscumtownscumtownscumtown

JKLM is a terrible wagon that doesn't really get us much further in the game.

<snip>
Why should I be on the JKLM wagon when all my biggest scum-reads are pushing it the hardest?

Here he says JKLM is a bad wagon. Why would a wagon on scum (or what people thought was scum) be bad? Unless you knew he was town.

If there's not scum between Grim, FlyBeau, Beli, and JKLM, then the scum's already won.

Except at the time of the above post here, the JKLM wagon was gonna go through, and you knew that. So, better change tune, right? "JKLM is scum!"

Angry pidgeon is scum.
Beli is scum. That's all I'm sure of.

Angry is scum because look at who he thinks is scum: me, varsoon, and NEARLY EVERYONE ELSE. Scum trying to leave mislynched open.


Please don't let them discredit me tomorrow. Don't underestimate me ever, Beli is scum for sure. (I'm just really bad at presentation)

You all ready to eat your foot? Not really, it isn't your guys fault for the mislynch, it's really mine, a don't need to tell me that, so yay.

Good luck town. This is a tough list of people.

I tried, JKLM.
I really did.

It was really obvious from your play so far that you're town.
Reads list, bro?

OH no wait, JKLM is town again!

But, AP, the problem with your lists is that
You have had JKLM as scum for awhile

(he probably isn't).

You have me as scum (I definitely am not).

Bold pinged me so hard. I don't know that I've ever heard this from town or said this myself (except as scum). :/

VOTE: Varsoon

P-edit: I had started with the currently living player list, and Varsoon was at the top, so I'm making this a single post, and the rest in another.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Grim I find it hard to believe you don't understand what pasch just said....

[EspeciallyTheLies]

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I suppose it is only fitting you did not read my post, since I didn't read your fairy tale.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Maybe, you and I have different definitions for "on the wagon". Because voting for someone and saying they are scum is pretty much it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Random comma.....

Why do you think he wasn't on the wagon?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

WIFOM.

my definition of being on the wagon would be actually voting .

I do find it suspicious that he both pushed and distanced himself from the wagon at numerous times.

Where?
I'm fairly certain that while I couldn't be -sure- that JKLM was scum, I knew damn well he was town since he claimed.
It was obvious, and you're all either scum or blind for staying on that wagon after that point.

Yes, because a claim is always truthful.



He claimed VT. Then you waffled around calling him scum and town and scum and town. But the cherry on top was the "It was really obvious from your play so far that you're town." If it was so damn obvious, why did you vote him?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@ETL Varsoon never voted JKLM... only AP and ourselves

Wow. touche. Reading his ISO, I was sure he had. That makes it worse imo.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Pretty much.

If there's not scum between Grim, FlyBeau, Beli, and JKLM, then the scum's already won.

You are specifically saying here that JKLM is among your scum list. You are not saying this is contrary to what you think.

Am I supposed to read minds now?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Also, yes. OMGUS. Your vote is it. Case please.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

(lol)

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Wow. Its like a switch. I made my case based on what I saw. This is like alice through the looking glass with you, Varsoon. You are saying there is scum in those 4 but you knew jklm was town all along? I'm sorry but that is exactly what I'm getting out of it. And that doesnt make sense to me.

Yet you vote me because i dont understand your motivation for saying any of that and forthinkng you are scum because of it? How is that NOT omgus?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

BUTTERFLIES.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm voting you because you lied about me in post 850, and because your case on me is a misrepresentation of my play so far.

You're literally twisting my words to fit your own ends, and that's scummy.

Also, it really pisses me off when people do that, so if you insist on lying and misinterpreting/misrepresenting me despite the several times I've explained what I meant, I will replace out of this game.

This is absolutely not true. I am attempting to interpret the motivation behind your posts. You know. Scumhunting. Which you have LITERALLY done none of.

My case was a list of direct quotes of things you said! Its not like I had to explain what they already showed. If I spent a lot of time overexplaining your words and translating and cobbling together obscure reasons for things, then I could see how you would call it misrepping, but I'm in actual fact not doing that.

I don't understand why you would put your town reads in a group with your scum reads and then say if scum isn't in this group of people, then scum has won. I seriously, honestly, 100% do not fucking understand.

P-edit: i heart you antihero.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

YEY NACHO.

Also angelmollie: reason?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Grim is being silly, I think. "The worry in her quivering voice..." lol...

Of course I'm interested in mollie's perspective as she is my strongest town read. Though I'm thinking she did it more for reaction than anything else and that is fine with me.

But yes I certainly "made a point of making it a secondary element" /sarcasm

Dont be dumb. I was starting to like you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Where? I am mobile and skimming most recent posts. Stop spotlighting my bad behavior.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Dammit. I dont know thor.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ok. 4 new pages in 24 hours... you guys are fucking insane. <3

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Umm ok. ISOd thor. Now thoroughly confused. (Though kudos on the "tailor" ref. I<3U for that but I hate your slot).

Thor, am I correct in my understanding that you have no intention of actually reading the thread, ISOing anyone, or making any cases? I'm not convinced by your cocky attitude and my suspicion has not changed just because you make a lot of (empty) posts.

How am I supposed to get a read on this mess... who here has played with this guy before???

P-edit: G-man, I have only ISO'd thor as I just got back to the thread now. I'll need a few minutes to catch up as I'm at work.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Beard = Thor is manly and probably smells faintly of bacon, and thus his opinion is right.

Ease of consensus - I have two players ripping at each other while *both* claim that this other player is the scum pal of the other. Hint: if either of you really think what you think, wouldn't that make him the obv. buddy that they are soft bussing? And if so, why not be willing to vote him to call their bluff at the very least? Heck, you have a built in person who should sheep your vote, already giving you one of the strongest wagons at the moment making it vastly more useful than what either of you are doing right now.

Took me a minute to understand what the fuck Thor was saying here. What don't understand is how this makes pasch (a good town read of mine) scum. (To be honest, I do not recall any convincing cases from either AP or Grim on pasch, or perhaps I might feel differently).

Beard = Thor is manly and probably smells faintly of bacon, and thus his opinion is right.

bullshit give me a proper reason... I've never played with you before and I've heard you are good. I also thought Mastin was good before playing with him and he was a bit of a disappointment. He didn't inherit a scummy slot when he replaced in... you did. Don't make me lynch your sorry ass due to bullshit reasoning like this as I will get even more disappointed with the so called elite members on this site :/

Ease of consensus - I have two players ripping at each other while *both* claim that this other player is the scum pal of the other. Hint: if either of you really think what you think, wouldn't that make him the obv. buddy that they are soft bussing? And if so, why not be willing to vote him to call their bluff at the very least? Heck, you have a built in person who should sheep your vote, already giving you one of the strongest wagons at the moment making it vastly more useful than what either of you are doing right now.

AP and us ripping into each other? Have you considered that both of us could be town and we both suspect wrongly that he is scum?

"Suspect wrongly that he (pasch) is scum". Suspect wrongly.. ??

Or that we both are scum and we are just playing you for a fool putting out scum lists with a common link to set up an easy mislynch?

Another scenario where pasch is town. ? Do you or don't you think pasch is scum? I'm confused here because a few pages ago I was under the impression you thought pasch was town, and varsoon was not. Then Thor shows up and you flip your story for what looks to me like fear of Thor. I don't know if this makes you scum or not. Yet.

If pasch flips scum who is your next favourite for a lynch Thor?

And if pasch flips town?

If you are not to the point you think I am being pro-scum, vote me.

CONFUSING. "If you don't think I'm scum, vote me." Is that right? This makes no sense. Please explain.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

If we both agree that Pasch is scum I'm happy to leave you alone for now but I'm expecting some more from you tomorrow. You'll have all of the night to read up on the game.

So you think a lynch should happen before I catch up?

Umm ok. ISOd thor. Now thoroughly confused. (Though kudos on the "tailor" ref. I<3U for that but I hate your slot).

Why do you hate my slot?

I did not like the way varsoon dodged his responsibility to actually play the game for pretty much all of Day 1, until the wagon on JKLM got close to being a lynch. At that point, he decided to defend JKLM repeatedly with no evidence to back this up. I found it extremely suspicious that he felt the need to do this, when everything JKLM had done up to that moment pointed to him being scum. Yet Varsoon was positive he was town, did not explain why he was positive, then said JKLM was indeed scum, then went back to saying he was town. I don't know how else to interpret that kind of behavior other than scum attempting to gain town cred after a town flip.

If you make a case about how scummy I am you might actually get some traction and move things forward. This game is begging for a case to be made. I have openly requested cases and received nothing. I made a case based around other people's half explained thoughts and got an L-1 wagon in a few minutes.

Yes you are so wonderful for pushing a lynch on one of my town reads. Go you.

I have already made a case against Varsoon, and by extension, you. I do not fancy repeating myself because you don't feel it's necessary to read the fucking game.

Basically, I suspect people are all being lazy and are starved for anyone to actually take a real and defined stance on ANYTHING. Why don't you lead that charge?
Otherwise I will.
And you think I'm scum.

Yes. I do.

Thor, am I correct in my understanding that you have no intention of actually reading the thread, ISOing anyone, or making any cases?

Where have I claimed or implied any of that?

Obviously, your posts up to mine gave me that impression. It's not like I pulled it out of thin air. I asked you for clarification and all you say is "Where did I say that?" That's not what I asked. I asked if that is indeed what your intentions are. Answer the question.

I'm not convinced by your cocky attitude and my suspicion has not changed just because you make a lot of (empty) posts.

My posts are actually far less empty than anyone else who has posted thus far. Serious, look the pages over since I entered and tell me who has presented more reads with reasoning. You might be able to argue Majiffy and that is literally it. And I would debate the Majiffy one.

I quoted and responded to the posts you made that had any substance. The rest was filler bullshit. Subtly implying that you are the only one scum hunting to discredit anyone's suspicions of you is scummy as fuck.

How am I supposed to get a read on this mess...

By scumhunting instead of complaining how impossible it is to scumhunt every time you post because...*gasp* 4 pages!

Don't be a dick. It doesn't suit you. 100 posts is still a lot and I am allowed to comment on it light heartedly. If you have a problem with that, I will gladly grow a penis for you suck on.

Here, I'll even give you a handy guide.

1. Explain your case against my slot.

I have already done so. Do your homework. Don't just pretend it doesn't exist.

2. Explain why you oppose/support the L-1 wagon that you haven't even addressed (hint: it's on Pasch)

I do not support a lynch on pasch at the moment because I have him as a town read. I feel he has actively engaged others in the thread from the beginning, sought to learn the intentions behind people's actions, and their motivations, and asked good probing questions of everyone, and responded with his thoughts on why he agrees or disagrees. I do not see him acting like a pushy arrogant jerk (hint: that's you).

3. Give me a read on any other player, town or scum read, I care not, who is not Thor or Pasch.

Flying beauties is my top town read. I've already explained why.
Grim is townscum. My read on him has changed about 100 times while reading this game.
Majiffy is null because I can't read him and I don't know what he is trying to do.
Darthe is scummy. I don't feel like he's produced anything noteworthy or contributed anything of use at all. He seems to have coasted through Day 1 and it looks like he will likely do so again today.

This will be sexy, give it a whirl (secret extra hint: Thor has already presented a case, offered multiple reads, and created and discussed the L-1 wagon in his "empty" posts)

Reads based on what? The 6 pages or so of Day 2? You "created" a wagon? Dude. You think I'm supposed to respect a wagon on one of my town reads that was pushed by my top scum read. Yes. This certainly makes you town. 23 posts as of my catch-up post is what you made. I quoted how many? 4? 5? I'd say if only 4 or 5 of your 23 posts were worth responding to then, yes, the majority of your posting has been "empty".

[EspeciallyTheLies]

What is this smurf business...

Being rude is not a scum tell. Being pushy is.

I don't the time nor capacity to respond with all your necessary quotes (since you can't seem to be arsed to find them yourself - you know, yes, I feel it's an obligation of a player to at least try to see all angles of a game, not just base reads on the last bit of it. I expect it of everyone, myself, and you, included). I'm done with my lunch break and will work on this after work.

@Majiffy, if that is the case, then I expect I will not be getting anywhere with Thor, because I don't get anywhere with you either. >:( *sigh* This is fucking frustrating.

P-edit: LET ME POST.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

BLATENT LIES, THOR. I HAVE DISCUSSED THEM WITH YOU. BUT WHY, I HAVE NO IDEA.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

BLATENT LIES, THOR. I HAVE DISCUSSED THEM WITH YOU. BUT WHY, I HAVE NO IDEA.

ETL chooses me because we already have a QT together describing ways Majiffy can go fuck himself

Damn, you're good. Chose you without even seeing this.

Update: I'm on page 15 (every fuckin time I get a few more pages further yall post 10 more). Also angrybird, lay off my style. If my bubbly helpful nature is all you can come up with to scumread me when I was all of 4 pages in then I suggest you go back to the newbie queue. <3

Ok, so as of page 14ish or whatever, Grim Reaper's post are really bugging me something fierce. Consider him my top suspect at the moment. I'll clarify and post full reads list as soon as I finish catching up tonight.

On Majiffy v. Flying Beauties: I get good feels from mollie's posts and they remind me of her town games. At first, I was pretty willing to trust her read on Majiffy (and honestly, going in, if she didn't give me scum vibes, I was hoping to get a peg on jiffy from her), except now I kind of feel like she's been tunneling. As far as his alignment goes, I have no fucking clue, but if one of him and angrybird is scum, I think the other would be town only because I don't see scum so openly buddying a partner, and the buddy buddy shit between the two of them is strange to say the least. Both could be town but I

don't

think both could be scum.

Ummmm what else.... that's all for now off the top of my head and I'll have more later.

"A justification for not posting very much" lol... there's like 35 pages and I just replaced in. Suspecting the slot is fine and all, but don't then try to rationalize my intro post as anything more than that. Also, I did not get the impression that he was suspecting you, unless that occurred after page 15, so shush until I'm done with that.

Maybe you should re-read the first 15 pages to see where I'm coming from. You'd think someone who's been in the game from the beginning would realize that is my perspective thus far and remember what they have already read. I'm not "trying to start something petty" with you. It was a joke, nothing more. Pin your balls back in and stop overreacting.

I was willing to trust Mollie's read on Majiffy, contingent on whether I felt she was town or not, because I know she knows him and I know she's a good player. I don't know a lot of the people on the player list and the mod mentioned both of them when he asked me to replace. I knew they were going to be here, and I knew I'd be able to lean on one of them for a read on the other. Also, I never said she wasn't credible, I said I got the feeling that she has been tunneling, because after about page 9 or so, it didn't seem like she was willing to consider any other possibility. However, that doesn't negate her original impression of him this game, so it's something I'm willing to work with. It's important to be open enough to trust your town reads, and mollie is one of them.

How is it taking you this long to read the thread?!?

Could you explain your pasch town read

~G

lol... because I replaced into about 5 games, am getting ready to mod 2, and boss pulled some last minute mandatory overtime bullshit so i have less time than i expected. But once i'm all caught up it will be fine.

For pasch, it was more about the motivation behind the questions he (she?) was asking on d1, or at least, perceived motivation. I dont agree with all of his reads but i understand the thinking behind them because he took the time to explain himself. I would say my reads on pasch and lying cat are more gut, but its good.

I DID IT GAIZ. I finished the thread <3<3<3

Now on to business. >:(

Varsoon:

His attitude this game has been apathetic, pitiful, and full of AtE. He has called himself out for being useless as if that somehow negates any suspicion it might cause. He tries to excuse it all away with "I'm busy" and "I'm lame", and expects to be given a pass (which he was). I get that people get busy and life gets in the way, but to that end, I also believe every player has an obligation to the other players to allow someone who is able to put effort into the game do so. But he doesn't. So, either he's extremely inconsiderate and selfish town, or he's scum using "RL" to excuse his blatant uselessness.

Spoiler: Reasons why Varsoon cannot give evidence, support his "reads", explain his votes

Gonna spend more time with this when I get a moment.

@PASHCE:

I'm not cautious, just belligerent and busy.

@FLYING BEAUTIES:

Yo, Mollie, I don't quite like your appeal to ethos in 222. I've been skeptical of you for this whole game, but that's because I'm -always- skeptical of you. How do you feel about AP, and what insight can you give me about how your hydra partner plays?

-V

(What I found interesting about this one is that he didn't even mention angelmollie until the above post.)

Then again, maybe I need to sit down with this game, look over all the posts, and stew with it for awhile before hitting the submit button here.
Nah.

Guess I'll have to get in here and do some work soon.

I'm not doing my best, that's for sure.

I'm pretty busy now, but I'll try to post something worthwhile later today.

@Grim: I'll elaborate a bit more when I get some time to do so.

However, the biggest reason I believe Varsoon is scum is the way he acted towards the end of JKLM's lynch.

Spoiler: Varsoon calls JKLM townscumtownscumtownscumtown

JKLM is a terrible wagon that doesn't really get us much further in the game.

<snip>
Why should I be on the JKLM wagon when all my biggest scum-reads are pushing it the hardest?

Here he says JKLM is a bad wagon. Why would a wagon on scum (or what people thought was scum) be bad? Unless you knew he was town.

If there's not scum between Grim, FlyBeau, Beli, and JKLM, then the scum's already won.

Except at the time of the above post here, the JKLM wagon was gonna go through, and you knew that. So, better change tune, right? "JKLM is scum!"

Angry pidgeon is scum.
Beli is scum. That's all I'm sure of.

Angry is scum because look at who he thinks is scum: me, varsoon, and NEARLY EVERYONE ELSE. Scum trying to leave mislynched open.


Please don't let them discredit me tomorrow. Don't underestimate me ever, Beli is scum for sure. (I'm just really bad at presentation)

You all ready to eat your foot? Not really, it isn't your guys fault for the mislynch, it's really mine, a don't need to tell me that, so yay.

Good luck town. This is a tough list of people.

I tried, JKLM.
I really did.

It was really obvious from your play so far that you're town.
Reads list, bro?

OH no wait, JKLM is town again!

But, AP, the problem with your lists is that
You have had JKLM as scum for awhile

(he probably isn't).

You have me as scum (I definitely am not).

Bold pinged me so hard. I don't know that I've ever heard this from town or said this myself (except as scum). :/

VOTE: Varsoon

P-edit: I had started with the currently living player list, and Varsoon was at the top, so I'm making this a single post, and the rest in another.

WIFOM.

my definition of being on the wagon would be actually voting .

I do find it suspicious that he both pushed and distanced himself from the wagon at numerous times.

Where?
I'm fairly certain that while I couldn't be -sure- that JKLM was scum, I knew damn well he was town since he claimed.
It was obvious, and you're all either scum or blind for staying on that wagon after that point.

Yes, because a claim is always truthful.



He claimed VT. Then you waffled around calling him scum and town and scum and town. But the cherry on top was the "It was really obvious from your play so far that you're town." If it was so damn obvious, why did you vote him?

Pretty much.

If there's not scum between Grim, FlyBeau, Beli, and JKLM, then the scum's already won.

You are specifically saying here that JKLM is among your scum list. You are not saying this is contrary to what you think.

Am I supposed to read minds now?

Wow. Its like a switch. I made my case based on what I saw. This is like alice through the looking glass with you, Varsoon. You are saying there is scum in those 4 but you knew jklm was town all along? I'm sorry but that is exactly what I'm getting out of it. And that doesnt make sense to me.

Yet you vote me because i dont understand your motivation for saying any of that and forthinkng you are scum because of it? How is that NOT omgus?

I'm voting you because you lied about me in post 850, and because your case on me is a misrepresentation of my play so far.

You're literally twisting my words to fit your own ends, and that's scummy.

Also, it really pisses me off when people do that, so if you insist on lying and misinterpreting/misrepresenting me despite the several times I've explained what I meant, I will replace out of this game.

This is absolutely not true. I am attempting to interpret the motivation behind your posts. You know. Scumhunting. Which you have LITERALLY done none of.

My case was a list of direct quotes of things you said! Its not like I had to explain what they already showed. If I spent a lot of time overexplaining your words and translating and cobbling together obscure reasons for things, then I could see how you would call it misrepping, but I'm in actual fact not doing that.

I don't understand why you would put your town reads in a group with your scum reads and then say if scum isn't in this group of people, then scum has won. I seriously, honestly, 100% do not fucking understand.

P-edit: i heart you antihero.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I cant I'm mobile.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I dont like being called lazy and made to seem stupid when someone else doing just that. I have made my case, that slot is scum, I am voting it. I also dont like arguing with scum reads and it fucking frustrates me when they distract me and waste my time.

I dont care that i'm not as good a player or have a different idea of what constitutes a scum tell. I will do what i feel makes sense and i will vote who i think is scum. Simple as that. I am not going to just sheep someone because they are better when i have no clue on their alignment. Absolutely not.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

mastin2 replaces Buckwild!

[EspeciallyTheLies]

wtf are you two doing....?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Reads list I promised...

Town reads: fb, lc, ap, beli

FB: I really liked 109, I liked their reasoning and actually it was angel's posts that gave me the town feels. when she was attacked by jiffy, her push back seemed to come from a town perspective, that is, knowing her own alignment and getting frustrated with jiffy for not getting what she was saying. specifically 156 and the posts following. and then 271, i think it's mollie, she attempts to stop a wagon she started. tells me she's willing to look scummy to make her thoughts known. i think scum-mollie would be more careful.

lc: he's made a LOT of observant points that make sense to me regarding the way people are acting and freely gave his thoughts. I especially like how he's been pushing people to do more and trying to generate real reads from the responses he gets. Specifically, i liked his ideas in 182. I can understand where he's coming from; he's taken the time to read and try to understand and ask questions and then share what he's found. that seems pretty town to me.

beli: I thought SSK was scum when reading him through day 1 because I didn't see him doing anything that actually helped but then he replaced. beli's supposition about contractions was weird but I understand what he was getting at. I actually really liked his intro catch-up post (375), and his 624 makes a lot of sense. He's more null than the rest in this town section, but I like it.

null reads: pasch, mastin, ap, grim, jiffy

pasch: I checked his ISO. My town read was mostly gut but I do like how he defended himself when grim was pushing him mid-day 1. Biggest issue here that knocked him from town to null is the fact that he opposed the JKLM lynch pretty vocally only to join it just to avoid "being a stick in the mud".

mastin: null because I've never completed any games with him. I know nothing about his style, and Buck was not really a strong town read prior to replacing. I'd like to see what he has to say when he's finished catching up.

ap: I actually like a lot of what he's said, even if he's wrong about me. he's been aggressive and loud and pushing just about every single person. more town than the rest in this section. the null mostly comes from paranoia that he's one of those players who's just loud and aggressive all the time, and he's probably really good at being scum. that unnerves me a lot actually. I'm not quite ready to give him a full town read just yet.

grim: At first I thought he was town because he seemed to be making good inquiries of other players. Then I thought he was scum because he seemed to be pretty manipulative. Then I thought he was town because he was willing to reevaluate his reads. Since day 2 started, I'm leaning more towards town on him, but the fact that he's attempting to set me up for a mislynch down the road when it becomes convenient is disturbing, making me think he's scum. So... I have no fucking clue.

jiffy: i don't fucking know. I don't think I will ever know. I don't even want to attempt to know. I don't care if it's stupid. He scares the fuck out of me. Always. Here's why - he's read me wrong before. But he's also a strong force in any game. People listen to him and follow him, even if he's wrong. I'm not saying he's stupid (in fact, i don't think he is at all), but there is that saying about stupid people in power... in jiffy's case, I'd say he's a liability when he's wrong. He can stay at null. I'm not touching him. I'll leave him to you able people who know him.

scum reads: thor, darthe

thor: i didn't like the slot before and i dont like it now. being manipulative IS fucking scummy; don't try to tell me it isn't or that I don't recognize scumtells. The very fact that he's trying to put me down and discredit my read on him by saying things like that just tells me I've hit scum. Saying he think I'm derpy town isn't going to change that. varsoon acted like a scummy scum fuck in every single post of his. there wasn't a single one that did anything to find scum. struck me as lazy scum trying to skate by with prod dodges and stupid excuses. blowing up at me when i pushed just confirms the lazy scum scenario more for me. just because thor is super active and loud doesn't mean the slot's alignment suddenly changed.

darthe: dude is literally useless. his 180 is a garbage attempt to look engaged. he quotes a bunch of posts and then makes a one-liner that says absolutely nothing. and leading up to the JKLM lynch he's just cool calm and collected, just nonchalant. like there's nothing to discuss. and he gave like, no reads on anyone. he sort of hinted here and there about people but no strong opinions, no attempts to catch people out. i just don't see any kind of town motivation. scum scum scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Giant wall which Thor did read

I see no actual reason for your Beauties townread outside of a minor read from Page 4 - am I missing something.

I said it started there, and pretty much everything after that confirmed it for me. Do you want me to quote every one of their posts? I never indicated my only reason for townreading them came from page 4. That's ridiculous.

Also, I actually agree with Varsoon, you took something that wasn't a scumlist and claimed it as his scumlist, and then pegged him for having flip-flopping reads which he didn't.
Though, honestly, i actually think that makes him look more theoretically scummy considering your case, but...y'know, at least work within reality for it.

Whether it's a scum list or not is irrelevant and so not the point at all. The point I was making is that he said "If scum isn't in this group of people, we have lost" and then named 4 people, of which one he claimed "was obviously town" since the beginning of the game.

The Pasch town read remained super vague just like last time you described it. I actually believe that you believe what you're saying about him, but, again, do you actually have a good example?

It is vague, because there's a bunch of people here who talk a LOT. I never said it was a strong town read. I'll look into pasch tomorrow as I'm wiped for tonight on ISOs.

Also, let's say I decide to let Pasch live and opt to run a wagon on Grim or AP - which of them do you think is more likely scum? If you think they're both town I'd love to hear why.

Eh. I don't like this line of questioning. Why these two people? Why not any of the other people who are more likely to be scum? I have paid attention to grim a lot because I originally thought he was scum, but I'd need to look more closely at ap. I'll do this tomorrow as well. Though, at this very moment, I'd choose grim because he's setting up lynches days ahead which makes no sense to me from a town perspective.

I dont like being called lazy and made to seem stupid when someone else doing just that. I have made my case, that slot is scum, I am voting it. I also dont like arguing with scum reads and it fucking frustrates me when they distract me and waste my time.

I only called you lazy insomuch as you had called me lazy since we were doing the same thing, and I never denied doing what I was doing was lazy - just that you were calling me lazy while emulating my behavior. If that bugged you...I submit the issue is your playstyle, not my words.
I never called you stupid - though I did indicate I thought you used bad tells, but those are rather different things. As far as I can tell you are of at least normal intelligence and I don't find you slow on the uptake in any particular way.
It is my opinion that you do use bad tells though.

Fine.

I dont care that i'm not as good a player or have a different idea of what constitutes a scum tell. I will do what i feel makes sense and i will vote who i think is scum. Simple as that. I am not going to just sheep someone because they are better when i have no clue on their alignment. Absolutely not.

That is perfectly fine.
Who has asked you to do so to the point you need to make this pronouncement?

People pushing me to vote this person or that person, and you all talking about "sheep me!" or "sheep that person!" It's a pet peeve of mine. I prefer people use their own minds, and not someone else's, as that someone else could be scum and I've lost games that way before.

Thor, I want you to read the thread. The whole thread.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I thought you said you read it. Or did you only read the part about you?

...

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Jesus.

VOTE: Darthe

[EspeciallyTheLies]

FB
Mastin
Beli
ETL
Varsoon
Lying Cat

I notice something odd about this list.
Just me?

He mentioned everyone's replacement except you.

Yes I ISO'd pasch. But it's also past midnight. I meant I would look more closely than I did tonight.

I never finished my thought on the whole scum list thing. It was more about his positive town read on jklm when jklm was scummy as hell. If i had been playing at that time i would have voted for him too. Yet varsoon said it was obvious. Based on what??

I get what you're saying about "if jklm isnt scum yadda yadda". It didnt read that way to me before.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I did until i had another beer and let my thoughts get loose. You talk too much. And i missed you town read on me. That makes you more suspicious, not less. -.-

[EspeciallyTheLies]

On buck, i wasnt sure but he came off like a newbie town. He didnt say anything particularly fantastic d1. I'm interested to see how mastin fills out the slot so i can get a better read.

On grim: Manipulative.. yeah its broad. Its just a general feel in the way he talks to people. Hence the null read.

I do plan to narrow this down a bit more. There are too many nulls that need to get sorted. Not because the read isnt there to be had but because i take a while to get them. Anyone who has played with me should know that's true.

P-edit: wat?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Until I started reading up more on mollie I thought we were referencing X.

Good post.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I did until i had another beer and let my thoughts get loose. You talk too much. And i missed you town read on me. That makes you more suspicious, not less. -.-

Townreading you makes me suspicious because?

Because I know when I'm playing well and when I'm playing like a sack of scum. Anyone town reading me right now gives me pause.

Playing mafia not-sober is the swag way to play mafia.

It help me thinks creatively.

You feel genuine. Your reads are fluid and you aren't afraid to state thoughts as you have them even if they don't have a very concrete conclusion.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Obviously I'm talking about the reasons one would town read me. It isnt the end all be all of a read but it makes me wonder if they knew it already.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Well, i dont know. If pasch is scum, i could see grim as the partner, if you just isolate just those two but with darthe or thor, i dont think so. I think grim is more likely to be scum than pasch. Pasch's response seems offhanded, like he isnt worried about getting lynched. As scum, I think he would be more animated about it.

P-edit: what.. you're confusing me and I'm obviously too tired/drunk to explain properly. I'll answer in the morning.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

:/ LC's case is pretty revealing. Points 1 and 2 ring truest for me based on what I've read. Though if he is scum do you really think scum would keep their buddy at a solid town read the entire time? I guess I'm not entirely sure how that alone points to AP. Can you expand on #3 a bit more? How is town reading your accuser incriminating? Why is claiming he is conf biased scummy?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Nice. Mastin can go in the town pile.

Can you explain your town read on grim for me? I've been having trouble pinning down that slot.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

*sigh* Again you are wrong mastin. I honestly expected more from you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Not to mention the fact that you have zero completed games with me, have no meta on me, and have no idea how I play town OR scum. I don't like being lumped in with AP and pasch when I have nothing to do with either of them, and like grim, I feel you are just setting me up for a mislynch when it becomes convenient for you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Mastin shut the fuck up about how "obviously town FnL" was because that's useless information. Respond and tell me why you are being dense?!!?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Yep. You caught me, mighty mastin. I'm scum.

How about not ignoring me?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Side-note, but in reading--ETL said she was going to make a post containing reads on every player, other than the one she devoted to Varsoon. Even if it's present on a later page, its absence by the end of 35 is itself reason for ETL to be scum, beyond the massive pile of evidence pointing that way already.

lolwow... you ARE an idiot. Now my work schedule makes me scum and cerb's bad scummy play (which btw I have lynched him wrongly for before!) = ETL is scum. You're 0 for 2 mastin and I'm getting pissed. How about you come up with a real reason I could be scum and not my lack of available time to play mafia!

Also I am getting tired of the clique-y bullshit from jiffy. If you all are just going lay out scum reads on anyone not sitting at your self-proclaimed "cool kids table" then I dont see a fucking point in playing with any of you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You are a fucking moron. You are basing a read on me on how others are reading me, my fucking life schedule, and my predecessor's idiotic playstyle. That is complete and utter fucking idiocy.

I'd like to see reasons for me being scum on how IIIIII have played and things IIIII have said. How about things IIIII have done? Fucking cop out bullshit excuse to get a mislynch.

P-edit: Fuck you mastin and your scumbuddy grim.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Fuck you mastin. I'm out of here.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm slightly uncomfortable with the current votecount. Like all of the town voting for two of the scum with not one bit of bussing?

Don't you get it grim? You're all super fabulous scum hunters. You caught the scum team! YAY.

Oh yeah. By the way. I'm totally scum right now. TOTALLY. I'm so scummy. I'm going to kill mastin tonight. That's what I'm going to do. And then I'm going to kill you. And Thor.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It doesn't matter because what I see happening is "Oh he's my friend. He's town. That guy's my friend too, so he is also town." What I see happening is, "Look, ETL is inexperienced. She doesn't know how to defend herself. She'd be easy to lynch." That's what I see.

I'm fucking sick of it. I'm fucking goddamn sick of it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm fucking sick of it. I'm fucking goddamn sick of it.

No one is lynching you right now, calm your titties.

THAT IS NOT THE POINT. It's about setting up future mislynches. If I'm getting put on some fast track for days ahead, what other townies are too? Do you get what I am saying???

P-edit: Oh hey mastin. FUCK OFF.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

not the point!!! I don't care if I die but you are following the wrong people down a bad bad rabbit hole!

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Let's talk about the start of Day 2. Remember that covnersation, with Paschendale bringing up the argument "Varsoon staying on the JKLM wagon despite his reservations"? You promptly defended this argument. Yet Guyett showed it was invalid.
Then you made a mistake, which think was a scummy one: you stood by that argument, and went into a semantic argument about wat "wagons" are.
Can you link me to a completed game where you refer to a "wagon" in the way you did in this game?

I don't think I was understanding what was being argued, grim, and I admitted that when we talked about it then, as well as when Thor explained the thing with the scum list, not to mention at the time I was under the impression that Varsoon HAD voted for JKLM. I stood by the argument that I understood at the time. Does that make sense?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Uh. Mastin, you are full of shit.

I changed my vote to Darthe because he became more important of a lead than Thor. As well, I have thought Pasch was town for a long fucking while, and have said as much. You are basing your read on what other people think of me and that is fucking stupid.

Lemme ask you this: If you are so on the money, and I'm scum with pasch and AP, don't you think I'd hammer pasch the moment you start flapping your face to shut you the fuck up? Jesus. It's like you aren't even thinking.

Yep. You're totally right. Scum would totally act like this when they get caught.

Why don't you lynch me now then? What's stopping you?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

PLEASE FUCKING QUOTE ME WHERE I SAID YOU WERE WITHOUT A DOUBT TOWN YOU PIECE OF SHIT FUCKHEAD.

I SAID BUCK WAS LIKELY TOWN BUT I WASN'T SURE. WHICH WAS AND IS TRUE. I SAID I WANTED TO SEE WHAT YOU HAD TO SAY TO MAKE THE SLOT MORE READABLE. ALSO TRUE. I FELT LIKE YOUR POSTS CAME FROM A TOWN POV. ALSO TRUE. I SAID I PUT YOU IN THE TOWN PILE. AND NOW I'M SCUM FOR THAT.

WELL FUCK YOU IN THE FUCKING FACE. I DONT CARE IF YOU ARE TOWN OR SCUM. YOU CAN FUCK OFF.

VOTE: mastin

[EspeciallyTheLies]

also your "towndar" is fucking broken. you should probably get that checked.

0 FOR 2 MASTIN. 0 FOR 2. I HAVE REASONS TO CALL YOU STUPID.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Well fuck you I can be a threat if i fucking wanted to!

P-EDIT BECAUSE I THINK YOU ARE WTF

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Qnd i WOULD HAMMER PASCH IF I WAS SCUM AND HE WAS A BUDDY. LIKE I SAID. YOU DONT FUCKING KNOW MY SCUMPLAY.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm fucking done. Mastin, you are dead wrong. And that pisses me off because there is literally nothing i can say since you have already made up your mind. If you are wrong about me, then i'm betting you are wrong on your other reads too.

Untrustworthy is what you are and i am fucking done.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

WHERE. IS. YOUR. VOTE?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't fucking care if I look like scum! The fact of the matter is that I'm not, which makes you FUCKING WRONG AND OBVIOUSLY NOT AS GOOD AS YOU THINK YOU ARE.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Then tell me WHY they are

wrong

bad.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Jesus christ. You JUST fucking said it and you're acting like I'm talking about something else.

Bad posts from predecessor. Bad interactions from predecessor. Bad posts from her. Bad interactions from her. Bad interactions regarding her predecessor and her. POE. Any single one of these would be strong on its own. Together? Together they show a strong picture of ETL being scum.

Which of my predecessor's posts are bad? Why are they bad?

Which of my predecessor's interactions are bad? Why are they bad?

Which of my posts are bad? Why are they bad?

Which of my interactions are bad? Why are they bad?

Which interactions regarding my predecessor and me are bad? Why are they bad?

Your "PoE" is also based on... what? Good feelings and happy thoughts? Because you have chosen a team based on the scum reads of people you prematurely decided were town with no real reason?

Answer.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

MASTIN!

ANSWER!!!! You took all that time quoting every fucking post in the game, it shouldn't be too hard!

Jesus christ. You JUST fucking said it and you're acting like I'm talking about something else.

Bad posts from predecessor. Bad interactions from predecessor. Bad posts from her. Bad interactions from her. Bad interactions regarding her predecessor and her. POE. Any single one of these would be strong on its own. Together? Together they show a strong picture of ETL being scum.

Which of my predecessor's posts are bad? Why are they bad?

Which of my predecessor's interactions are bad? Why are they bad?

Which of my posts are bad? Why are they bad?

Which of my interactions are bad? Why are they bad?

Which interactions regarding my predecessor and me are bad? Why are they bad?

Your "PoE" is also based on... what? Good feelings and happy thoughts? Because you have chosen a team based on the scum reads of people you prematurely decided were town with no real reason?

Answer.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

UNVOTE:

I don't think he's scum. I just think he's stupid and obviously cannot read me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Reads list I promised...

Town reads: fb, lc, ap, beli

FB: I really liked 109, I liked their reasoning and actually it was angel's posts that gave me the town feels. when she was attacked by jiffy, her push back seemed to come from a town perspective, that is, knowing her own alignment and getting frustrated with jiffy for not getting what she was saying. specifically 156 and the posts following. and then 271, i think it's mollie, she attempts to stop a wagon she started. tells me she's willing to look scummy to make her thoughts known. i think scum-mollie would be more careful.

lc: he's made a LOT of observant points that make sense to me regarding the way people are acting and freely gave his thoughts. I especially like how he's been pushing people to do more and trying to generate real reads from the responses he gets. Specifically, i liked his ideas in 182. I can understand where he's coming from; he's taken the time to read and try to understand and ask questions and then share what he's found. that seems pretty town to me.

beli: I thought SSK was scum when reading him through day 1 because I didn't see him doing anything that actually helped but then he replaced. beli's supposition about contractions was weird but I understand what he was getting at. I actually really liked his intro catch-up post (375), and his 624 makes a lot of sense. He's more null than the rest in this town section, but I like it.

null reads: pasch, mastin, ap, grim, jiffy

pasch: I checked his ISO. My town read was mostly gut but I do like how he defended himself when grim was pushing him mid-day 1. Biggest issue here that knocked him from town to null is the fact that he opposed the JKLM lynch pretty vocally only to join it just to avoid "being a stick in the mud".

mastin: null because I've never completed any games with him. I know nothing about his style, and Buck was not really a strong town read prior to replacing. I'd like to see what he has to say when he's finished catching up.

ap: I actually like a lot of what he's said, even if he's wrong about me. he's been aggressive and loud and pushing just about every single person. more town than the rest in this section. the null mostly comes from paranoia that he's one of those players who's just loud and aggressive all the time, and he's probably really good at being scum. that unnerves me a lot actually. I'm not quite ready to give him a full town read just yet.

grim: At first I thought he was town because he seemed to be making good inquiries of other players. Then I thought he was scum because he seemed to be pretty manipulative. Then I thought he was town because he was willing to reevaluate his reads. Since day 2 started, I'm leaning more towards town on him, but the fact that he's attempting to set me up for a mislynch down the road when it becomes convenient is disturbing, making me think he's scum. So... I have no fucking clue.

jiffy: i don't fucking know. I don't think I will ever know. I don't even want to attempt to know. I don't care if it's stupid. He scares the fuck out of me. Always. Here's why - he's read me wrong before. But he's also a strong force in any game. People listen to him and follow him, even if he's wrong. I'm not saying he's stupid (in fact, i don't think he is at all), but there is that saying about stupid people in power... in jiffy's case, I'd say he's a liability when he's wrong. He can stay at null. I'm not touching him. I'll leave him to you able people who know him.

scum reads: thor, darthe

thor: i didn't like the slot before and i dont like it now. being manipulative IS fucking scummy; don't try to tell me it isn't or that I don't recognize scumtells. The very fact that he's trying to put me down and discredit my read on him by saying things like that just tells me I've hit scum. Saying he think I'm derpy town isn't going to change that. varsoon acted like a scummy scum fuck in every single post of his. there wasn't a single one that did anything to find scum. struck me as lazy scum trying to skate by with prod dodges and stupid excuses. blowing up at me when i pushed just confirms the lazy scum scenario more for me. just because thor is super active and loud doesn't mean the slot's alignment suddenly changed.

darthe: dude is literally useless. his 180 is a garbage attempt to look engaged. he quotes a bunch of posts and then makes a one-liner that says absolutely nothing. and leading up to the JKLM lynch he's just cool calm and collected, just nonchalant. like there's nothing to discuss. and he gave like, no reads on anyone. he sort of hinted here and there about people but no strong opinions, no attempts to catch people out. i just don't see any kind of town motivation. scum scum scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

UNVOTE:

I don't think he's scum. I just think he's stupid and obviously cannot read me.

Good then help me lynch him. He is antitown at best right now and one of him/Majiffy is probably scum so lets find it.

I'm not interested in lynching people just because they annoy me. I don't know about Jiffy and I'm not joining you on some crusade against him.

P-edit: Please, grim, that would be helpful if I knew exactly what you were asking about.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

also, I should have been working earlier when I was bitching at mastin. I did a lot less today than I normally do and it's costing me tomorrow morning so I can finish what I should have finished today.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I can defend myself tyvm.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

What is "hardballed"?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You seem to have conveniently excluded the part where Varsoon and you both pointed out he was not ever voting for JKLM, at which point I double checked for myself, admitted my mistake, and explained that I had thought he was on the wagon?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

grim... that had more to do with YOU and less to do with pasch... I was making a comment about you since I had considered you were playing dumb on purpose.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm surprised that you are attempting to hinge a case against me based on whether or not I directly stated in my initial case on Varsoon if he was actually voting JKLM or not, since I quite clearly believed he had.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And yes, when I realized my mistake, I backed off. Would you have preferred I tunnelled him to death on false information?

P-edit: What? I made a mistake after pash agreed? I agreed with pasch mistake .. what..

You're trying to say that I'm scum because pasch made the same mistake as me, and I didn't catch it, because I believed the same thing?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You are trying to tell me... that I knew varsoon hadn't voted, when I made my case, then forgot, and then remembered? Is that right?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I never argued the semantics about the word "wagon"... wtf? I never once argued about that. I honest to god thought Varsoon had voted for JKLM. Is it completely impossible to look at that case and the conversation following it from the point of view of someone who thought that?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Fucking exactly dude. I thought he had voted for JKLM.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

At which point, I was corrected, and realized I'd made a mistake. I thought he had voted for him. What else do you want me to say? I thought the dude had fucking voted for him.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Are you trying to make a case against me for that? When you know what I'm like?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That I forget it's LYLO or when a game has already flipped a scum even... ask Guyett. You are missing information, Grim.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@ETL Varsoon never voted JKLM... only AP and ourselves

Wow. touche. Reading his ISO, I was sure he had. That makes it worse imo.

I am beginning to think you are leaving this out on purpose....

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I forgot I was talking to grim and not guyett.

Listen, you are obviously cherry picking things to make it look however you want.

I made a case on Varsoon based on what I saw in the thread and thought to be scummy. I was under the impression he WAS on the wagon and HAD voted. Guyett and Varsoon both corrected me, at which point, I said the above post which you are avoiding including in your case and pretending does not exist. Then I backed off because I made a mistake and needed to reevaluate the case.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

How does this make me scum?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

EtL steers away from further discussion and admits to her mistake.

You are being ridiculous.

Please look at the time of that post. My last post that evening was a few minutes after that, about 9:15, when I went TO BED. AND THEN WORKED THE NEXT DAY.

I don't understand how this makes me scum. Because I didn't reprimand pasch for making the same mistake as me?

How about the other people who voted for Varsoon during that time period?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You are attempting to make a case against me for making a mistake. A mistake that obviously was easy to make since other people did the same thing. I just happen to be the first that made it. I didn't tell them to follow me. I presented a case I believed in. I'm not sure what more you want from me.

P-edit: And what will you do if pasch flips town? Or when I do? Then what?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I think it points to you wanting to vouch for Paschendale before anything, as an initial reaction.

My case on VARSOON had nothing to do with PASCH at all! I dont even understand your train of thought here.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

p-edit: it's not about the vote. It's about the argument "Varsoon stayed on the wagon..."

BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I FUCKING THOUGHT! I THOUGHT HE HAD!! I CANT UNTHINK THAT!

[EspeciallyTheLies]

There is LITERALLY, and I mean absolutely, nothing to your case when the truth is the truth is the truth no matter how you like to twist it. I thought varsoon had voted for him. What more is there to it!

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ugh. Impossible.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Obviously I made an assumption. Obviously it wasn't in my case because it wasn't in the ISO and it didn't occur to me to think about that. I had just assumed. Obviously I am a dumbass. But that was my impression and I presented it and I believed in it and I wasn't afraid to look at it again when it was proven to be incorrect.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And obviously I am being called scum for careless and lazy scum hunting. I'm just not that willing to put all of my time and energy into a forum game. For some people it may be more important but I do this for fun in my down time, of which there isn't much. I have a few hours where I am highly active every other day or so. You can check my site history. When I post here I'm posting everywhere. It's not like I "evaded" the conversation with guyett or varsoon or pasch or whoever. I took the time to read the entire thread, and try to find scum. Even if you think my case was shitty, I'd at least like people to look into when I give them the same respect. I don't like having things twisted way out of line and taken down a path it was never intended for. A poor choice of words does not a scum make, especially when the person you are calling scum is NOTORIOUSLY absentminded. It is an easy case to make, and I am sorry if people are unable to do better than that, but I'm not just going to suddenly start acting differently or put more effort where I don't feel it is deserved.

And now, because I spent all day fucking around with mastin who has conveniently disappeared when I ask him to back up his "case" against me, I need to go to bed myself, so I can work on a Saturday like some sort of schlepp. Goodnight.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Dat useless post.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

...is that a hammer?

mollie.. before he locks us away for the next couple days....

Why have you not talked with me?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I am feeling particularly sad and lonely in this game.

But also beli appears out of nowhere and doesn't say anything that makes any sense.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Explain the reasons behind your vote. Please.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@mollie: I'm not worried about pasch. If he's scum then I was wrong and it's not the first time. If he's town, then I was right and I'll take that as a testament to my continuing improvement. His alignment has nothing to do with mine. What I

am

worried about is doing anything useful here. I am clearly out of my depth. I am enjoying the game, I particularly like many of the people here personally, but as far as players, I have no idea what I'm doing. I know I haven't been around THAT long but I feel like a newbie again and I don't like that. I like to think I have SOME idea what's going on. I give my reads and get told that makes me scum and no one seems to give a bother what I'm actually saying. I realize I'm horrible at making cases but that's no reason to write them off. If I say something that makes sense, then it only stands to reason the best interest is to help each other develop the case from those different perspectives.

P-edit:
@beli: I'm not so ok with AP. Pasche lynch is eh. I'm not sold on it, not by a long shot. I have had him as town for a bit now and to have a sudden influx of suspicion is weird to me when I didn't see anything before. I'm not unwilling to take a look but I'm less willing to deny initial gut. I also don't think painting everyone on the D1 lynch as scum is prudent, considering how scummy JKLM in actual fact was being (imo). My case on Varsoon/Thor began when I saw the way he acted like he KNEW JKLM was town before there was even a flip. I've never seen anyone say shit like that except in newbie games, and even if I'd had a strong feeling someone was town, there'd be enough doubt that I wouldn't make statements like that. So I don't quite understand it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

mastin grim darthe

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Quick fire! I dunno. That's my gut reaction. mastin because I just can't see a case that empty being made by someone who has a town wincon. grim because I

really

don't like people trying to set up lynches well in advance that contain half the player list just so he can have options, and darthe because he's been absolutely mind numbingly useless and has no excuse.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

He is more useless. And I just haven't gotten around to you yet.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Beli talk to me about contractions. Have you caught scum with that before? It seems to me like a bizarre thing to comment on.

It depends on baselines.

Deviating from one's baseline behaviour is a sign of dishonesty.

I am absolutely unwilling to move on AP without knowing if contraction avoidance is normal for him.

No, I haven't caught scum with contraction avoidance before, that would be madness...but what I was looking for when I read this game over to start with was anything that looked out of place. Talking like Spock qualifies. So...if AP normally talks like Spock, I'm completely null on him. If he does not, that qualifies as a deviation from his baseline mode of speech, which I see as scummy.

Contractions or no contractions. Silly and a minute point, but I understand and agree with the bold. This one post has already done more than darthe.

Do you know what PoE means?

"IIoA" and "Active lurking" are nothing more than bullshit buzzwords,

so if you think you can get my goat by tossing them my way, then *wanking motion*

This too, and what you said to LC about how often scum are caught because they pushed a lynch using those buzzwords.

Shitfire. Lots of pages since last time I was here.

How many days are we supposed to wait before we can lynch?

Don't be fatuous, Jeffrey.

((Given the massive amount of content that has been posted since then, I'm now OK with a hammer))

Also - what is your alignment opinion (not timetable opinion) of the wagon and those on it?

Pasch - probscum

eh

Darthe - probscum (and don't give me that shit about leading wagons; For all intents and purposes I led a wagon on a partner as scum in La Isla. Granted, I wasn't actually expecting it to go to lynch...)

agreed

Majiffy - Majiffy

agreed

Lying Cat - Town

agreed

Reaper - Town

ehhhhhh

Thor - ???

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

where's the rest, beli?

Y'ain't wrigglin' away this easy, Pasch.

VOTE: Paschendaele

That battle was a hardcore Canadian win and it pisseth me off that thou'rt scum, sirrah.

@Mod: If you've really done an antihero theme without Thomas Covenant, yer on me shit list

If pasch IS scum, who's the partner? AP? If pasch ISN'T scum, who is?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I still think you're more likely to be town than darthe. or mastin. or grim. And until that avenue of inquiry runs dry, I am fine to keep you there.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why is that?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why is that not possible if grim darth and mastin are scum?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Perhaps I don't understand the PoE. How strong are your town reads? Where did they come from?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Yes well that's just dandy beli. Come on.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

There are a bunch of other people you aren't even considering....

[EspeciallyTheLies]

GAMES OVER NOW BELI. YOU SCUMBUTT. Your Shaheed's Law... you can't manipulate me with that again.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Oh look. Mastin has posted and again ignored me. You don't get to sling mud and be unwilling to get dirty. ANSWER THIS NOW PLEASE.

MASTIN!

ANSWER!!!! You took all that time quoting every fucking post in the game, it shouldn't be too hard!

Jesus christ. You JUST fucking said it and you're acting like I'm talking about something else.

Bad posts from predecessor. Bad interactions from predecessor. Bad posts from her. Bad interactions from her. Bad interactions regarding her predecessor and her. POE. Any single one of these would be strong on its own. Together? Together they show a strong picture of ETL being scum.

Which of my predecessor's posts are bad? Why are they bad?

Which of my predecessor's interactions are bad? Why are they bad?

Which of my posts are bad? Why are they bad?

Which of my interactions are bad? Why are they bad?

Which interactions regarding my predecessor and me are bad? Why are they bad?

Your "PoE" is also based on... what? Good feelings and happy thoughts? Because you have chosen a team based on the scum reads of people you prematurely decided were town with no real reason?

Answer.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

This is ridiculous.

Jiffy, you have no reason to town read him. Your mason stuff is stupid. Stop trying to get me to vote people I don't think are scum. Makes me think you are scum. And anyway, I'd lynch pasch over AP if I was forced to choose between them. He made a lot of good points D1 and I see more contradictions in Pasch's ISO than his.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Yes yes, because you say so. /gagme.

Just because I think someone may be scum doesn't mean they are or that they are my top scum read. There are bigger fish to fry than you. Why are you so pushy?

Why wont you vote darthe or thor or grim or mastin?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And what about pasche?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

-.- You're mean.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

No. I am not. I said it was stupid.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm confused and don't know what's going on anymore. People I thought were town I think are scum and people I thought were scum I now think are town and everything is fucked up in my head.

Just fuckin tell me who to vote and I'll figure shit out after a scum flip.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Who is your biggest town read?
~G

I dont know anymore. It was moolie. But i dont like the fact that she is basically sheeping what used to be her biggest scum read on day one, and i agree with thor on the post he made on the last page (i'll quote when i get back to my desk) about pasch. I also dont agree with the mason thing and i'd rather have that cleared up instead of sly hint dropping or jokes i cant figure out if they are serious or not.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

The other tjing is that varsoon was really scummy but thor is changing my mind so i dont know if i'm just dumb or gullible or if he is actually town and one of my town reads is completely wrong.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You know what, I have been doing that and getting told I'm stupid/wrong and that makes me scum. I'm tired of it. You think I'm wasting your time, then lynch me already. I've given reads lists, explained why I think so, and offered my ideas on who to lynch, but because it's not formatted all pretty with nice language and sounding smart, you dismiss it right away.

Thor/Varsoon: Town who plays like a scumbag.
Mastin: Probably scum with mastin.
Jiffy: Probably scum with Jiffy.
Mollie: Unknown but probably town
AP: Unknown but probably town
Lying Cat: Town
Pasch: Unknown but probably scum.
Grim: Unknown
ETL: Town
Darthe: Scummy.
Missing someone I can't remember. Lynch that person. Oh yeah, Beli, who is flying under the radar saying fuck all. Scummy.

Just because someone plays differently does not mean their instincts are completely off the wall. Am I interested in spending 5 hours a day arguing with people and looking up quotes and putting together cases that look far too deep into shit and are usually wrong? No. I'm not. I have a life. I have a job. And mafia is not that important to me. I'm sorry but it just isn't. Does that mean I shouldn't play? Maybe. If people are going to act like this, then definitely. Take what I've got and help me, or don't and lynch me. I really don't care.

VOTE: Pasch

There you go. I'd rather lynch than no lynch, and this is who it will be.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

sorry.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Thor: Because a no lynch is stupid. And the fact that half the game is disagreeing with the other half down the middle is leading us to a no lynch, I think it's ridiculous. Me voting Darthe is not going to help anyone because no one cares about darthe and there's simply not enough in his ISO for me to put a nice case together to convince everyone. I don't believe in making associative links until after we get a scum flip, so beyond what he's said and done (or rather, not said and not done), I don't have enough to make it clear to anyone. I also understand there are much better players here, so someone has to be right about either AP or Pasche. So I chose one, and I chose pasche because he disagreed with the JKLM lynch but joined it anyway. AP didn't do anything like that, and words are just words so as far as his voting patterns, that I can tell, pasche is the better option.

Also I'm not "paralytic" because people think I'm scum. It's just that this day has gone on far too long and no new information has come up. It's been the same thing page after page after page. I'm stuck because I keep thinking well maybe if I think someone is town, they are probably scum, and vice versa, these people probably know how to hide their shit well enough, and they are all talking about how scary AP is, but in my mind, you're all scary, so what am I missing, and it goes on like that. So I'd like a fucking flip so I can do something I know how to do. K?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I've always been told NKA is bad.. and besides, FNL seemed like an obvious choice. I'd do the same thing.

But also, mastin is... mastin. And he pissed me off. And I lost my face because I was stressed about RL shit. So I hope there IS a difference between before and after and now.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

:/ Well, if pasch is scum, then I'll be able to give you more tomorrow. I'm much better once I have something concrete to work with.

P-edit: Thor, are you

offended

by curse words or is that just a shtick?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Are you kidding me; i knew i should have stuck with my original read. FB you dont believe it even after he drove the pasch lynch? And grim's reversal out of fuckin nowhere to hammer. AND we have a conf town!

VOTE: THOR

P-edit: what is hedging?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

This game is finally looking up! !

P-edit: shush scum. I fucking knew it. You dont get to talk anymore.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

P-edit: I have a GUILTY on Thor, not a read anymore. you thought both masons (buck and majiffy were obvtown D1) were scum. You still think I am scum. Thor is scum sure, you finally got one right!

Is this @me? Because mine was @thor.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

etl you were leaning thorella as town if I recall.

I was starting to think he was, yeah, because his case on pasch made sense, and I didn't think if he was scum, he would push a difficult wagon. But I have done a little research in the night and he apparently does lead wagons as scum. I was thinking scum would be less willing to put themselves out there like that if they knew the person they were pushing for would flip town. Thor is a different animal.

hedging typically means "hedging your bets" but I like the analogy of having a bunch overgrown shrubbery to mask what you are doing.

Ah ok. (I don't know what "hedging your bets" means either). Are you saying this is what AP's doing?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@ap: I don't think so, stop jumping to conclusions. Can we just focus on thor today and lemme figure shit out?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Actually... I was wondering why he suddenly flipped his read on my slot at the start of D2, and why he was defending me like that. I thought he was buddying but the rest of his play made me think he was town, especially given my suspicions on Varsoon/Thor.

If you ISO him and look for my name, there's a distinct difference between D1 and D2.

Spoiler:

How is it taking you this long to read the thread?!?

Some people play at a slower pace...its not alignment indicative so why ask?

So, either he's extremely inconsiderate and selfish town, or he's scum using "RL" to excuse his blatant uselessness.

Ok, you don't sound very convinced that Varsoon is scum here. Why do you think its the latter and not the former?

Except at the time of the above post here, the JKLM wagon was gonna go through, and you knew that. So, better change tune, right? "JKLM is scum!"

I don't really read that the same? It sounded like he was saying that those people were going to get lynched (for being useless, scumy, w/e) and that town would lose if they were all MLs.

I dislike the AtF from him here, but you hinging a case on this is a bit weird/forced. I never got the impression that Varsoon seriously thought JKLM was scum.

I'm actually slightly relieved to know about FnL. I had gut problems with him. All sorts of conflicting reads.

Who did you expect to die then?

I do find it suspicious that he both pushed and distanced himself from the wagon at numerous times.

Why don't I remember Varsoon pushing JKLM at all?

I remember him howling about me being scum and howling about Grim being scum and thats all.

[ur;=http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p5403044]853[/url] is terrible. Varsoon is extremely self conscious about his appearance here and providing selfmeta that doesn't have direct relevance to what is going on other than to discredit his town play and reads? Doesn't add up to the confidence he's exuding elsewhere and this post feels out of place in general.

Anyway, it's clear that the kill was made to leverage a wagon against at least one of the people F&L wrongly thought was scum.

WTH? There is no way Varsoon thinks this over thinking that FnL was killed because they mentioned supporting me. He is seriously going to play a victim card here and imply the FnL death was a setup? No.

Oh, and Vars, don't start with the level shit again. I'll vote you on principle if you pull the same crap you did in Diffusion.

This is not scum with Varsoon. I strongly doubt Pasch-scum would forget about Varsoon being on/off the lynch wagon and I strongly doubt Pasc-scum would take such a waffly stance on a buddy like that.

879 is a good post. EtL feels honest here and a bit genuinely stunned by Varsoon's reaction to her case and her gut-reaction is to reinforce that her case is concrete and try to understand what she perceives as an overreaction. Strongly doubt this is scum with Varsoon or, lesser extent, at all.

WHO SUMMONS ME?

Did anybody else get a Warcraft II throwback when reading this?

Town: Beauties, Majiffy, EtL, Pasch, Buck

Scum: Nacho

Mollie, I'd still like to talk to yo about Lying Cat. I can't shake this post. Call it gut, but I feel like LC is trying to hedge a scumread on me. He even opens today by calling out me/Beli (FnL suspects) and it just feels like fishing for which ML has the most support.

Oh and I figured out what about EtL feels good. If you look at her posts today, her train of thought makes sense. On top of that, it feels like she is suffering from some confirmation bias on Varsoon, but he probably is scum so meh. Still her push feels incredibly genuine.

Nacho get the hell in here. Im only not voting you because you are too valuable to mislynch on the offchance you are town.

Why is Paschendale among your townreads in 901, while shortly after admitting you haven't been paying attention to him and restricting yourself to calling him "not lolobvscum"?

Because you are calling him lolobvscum; I find the intensity of your push to be disturbing which is what I was trying to make known there. I can understand not thinking hes town, but I really don't see what he has done to earn death-tunneling from you. Explain what pings you about him briefly? Not a case, just whatcaught your eye about him.

I don't think Pasch is scum with Varsoon based on his treatment of him today and I think Varsoon is scum, so. Pasch is somebody I'm not feeling very town from on his own accord though.

P-edit: Thats exactly what I was saying - his rage feels fake. Everybody? apologized for any factual misrep about him being on the wagon I think. EtL was defensive about it in a very genuine way in 879 and Varsoon won'teven meet her half way to acknowledge the rest of her case?

EtL, no comment on me standing up for you aggressively?

So two scum reads, a possible scum read, a...confirmation bias read, and a 'I dunno' read.
I'm guessing this means you think Majiffy and Grim are town - or are you expecting more than 3 scum on your wagon right now?

What is the point of posting this? What is wrong with Pasch finding yo and Darthe scummy on his wagon? He explicitly said he thinks Grim is just conf-biasing here. He never proposed more than 3 scum being on his wagon and hes not OMGUSing, but it feels like you are trying to imply he is w/o saying it.

--

Nobody should have a scumread on EtL after 1032. That sort of indignance is way more often from town.

Grim is

townscum

. My read on him has changed about 100 times while reading this game.

Although what is the underlined supposed to be?

Well my only good scumread was on your slot and Im certainly not going to waste your time preaching to you about you being scum.

that's a fair point, but it still seems drastically underperforming from you.
Am I wrong?

Annnd, this is still probably scum. This is just like Thor from mini 1393.

You should be specific about how it is the same.

Thor v Grim is terrible in general actually, both propagating shitty arguments over Pasch that don't actually go anywhere. I thought that Grim was very sure Varsoon was town and they certainly didn't antagonize him this way. Suddenly Thor replace in and we get all this crap and "omg Thor needs to pass burden of proficiency or hes scum".

That would tend to indicate they see me as a threat and are scum - but only if I am town...which you are saying I am not.
Clarify?

Grim did in a scumgame of mine recently. I'd link it but Im gonna go out on a limb and guess you dont care.

Not really, it was a question for him.
Let's be serious, you know my attitude towards anyone pointing out your fluctuating reads and calling it a scumtell.

What is the point in asking me this? Oh right there is none. Just smoke.

I'll explain when Im not in a time crunch.

I think its scummy on rim to be sure. A slot they've been cozy with replaces out and all of a sudden we get spam wars with you and them and forced dissonance? So ok, mostly a point against them. You are scummy on your own accord anyhow.

A scumtell for me specifically? I mean obviously its wrong. I couldnt even tell you if my reads 'fluctuated' similarly to my town meta in that game. But why beat around the bush if you don't care - tell them that there read is crap and move on.

Right and suddenly in 992 Thor is ok with just putting Pasch at L - 1 after this scummy herpaderp with Grim.

Because up till then I'd been opposed to it...?

Lets not start this, thanks.

If you are town you know this sort of crap is going to result in a repeat of mykonian's game.

Since she makes up meta on me and tries to lynch me as town - I don't really care.

Then what were you saying? This post is so useless, but I know I was scumreading Thor for propagating crap with Mollie in Patator and that was a crap read as it turned out. sadlkfjaskfj

What?
Go read what she actually asked me that I was answering - and then tell me why this even remotely matters to you.

least of all putting Pasch At L - 1 which is certainly not what I'd expect from town Thor.

Oh my gawd, you till have no concept of my meta and still choose to talk like you do.
I am an open and strong advocate of early L-1 and even preach it in Newbies as the IC.
Derpa-derp AP, this is fething terrible. Why do you do this gak?

What changed your mind? And I don't like that you are trying to play a "Oh don't you want me to read before the hammer?" card and also putting Pasch in hammer range. That is not town motivated thinking.

Ok. Stop doing blatantly anti-town things ans just ignore her then.

You are being obtuse instead of saying what you meant. Stop.

Why is Pasch scum then or are you just trolling Grim?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

mollie I'd like to lynch thor today. he was one of the top solid scum reads i've had this game and i let him get in my head to the point where i started thinking he was right on pasch (which fucking pisses me off), so i want to lynch his scum ass.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Grim i'm not deferring responsibility. I feel like an asshole. I blame myself entirely because you know if I hadnt voted who knows... maybe it wouldnt have happened and we would have gotten somewhere. But AP's claim just confirms my original suspicions, and i dont see scum having the kind of confidence to make that detailed a claim. And such an odd role of all things.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@mollie: If thats what you think, can you compromise with me and lynch thor for my own pleasure and satsifaction? He is clearly scum, now, and he was scum then.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ap is teh powah role why r u protecting h1m

Because I believe it's thor/darth with the third being between beli/grim, and I don't see AP in that mix. Do you?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Claim, Papa Scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why are you deflecting my request?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Because I want to know what you are going to say. I would ask anyone for a claim and it absolutely has a bearing here.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Yeah but it depends on the mod's interpretation of have a gun. I don't particularly care to explain it further without your claim, as I don't intend to give you plausible ideas.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Thor.... *sigh*

You do realize that quote was from D1. I checked his D2 ISO. I even quoted all the posts where he even mentioned my name. If that's the only "hole" you have, I think you better lie in it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

879 is a good post. EtL feels honest here and a bit genuinely stunned by Varsoon's reaction to her case and her gut-reaction is to reinforce that her case is concrete and try to understand what she perceives as an overreaction. Strongly doubt this is scum with Varsoon or, lesser extent, at all.

This is from Day 2.

To a 'lesser extent' he doesn't suspect she's scum.

THIS is what you're talking about? Are you kidding me? Really? This is your big contradiction? You know, for all your bluster, and the shit I've heard and read about you, I'm really surprised by this. I would have expected better. I'm rather disappointed.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Just tell me why he would include that 'lesser extent' comment on a player he knew was town?

I'll wait.

My guess would be that he didn't want to seem obvious. What good is an innocent result if you die before you get a guilty. I have done this as a cop. I would do this in his role. This is hardly damning AP. In fact, it is damning you more.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That's fine with me and gives me a good break for this weekend. But beli, please do come back with something substantial. Thus far you've kind of only popped in to make one-liners and then disappeared again.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Hey, AP, why'd you investigate me?
Was it because I

fought hard against the lynch on

buddied the fuck out of you

and instead lynched town instead of just

letting you be lynched

going for the obvious wagon to avoid getting caught

? Because that is a truly amazing scum plot of mine.
As long as you're scum.

FTFY.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

what in the hell is going on...

what in the hell thor. you scum piece of poop. i'm not listening to any of this wifom shit.

what in the hell grim. I said I wanted to hear from beli and you swoop in and fucking hammer.

i WANTED TO HEAR FROM BELI.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Shuttup AP. You don't sound like.. like...

what you sound like is trolling scum. GODDAMMIT GRIM COULD YOU NOT WAIT FOR BELI???

Where is the flip.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Thor you scumbucket.

Goddamn you both. Goddamn this game. I don't understand.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

GRIM!

[EspeciallyTheLies]

But you are shocked that a fakeclaim on you worked.

I FUCKING HATE YOU.

I fucking hate you.

AP I HATE YOU SO FUCKING HARD RIGHT NOW. I HATE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'M NEVER PLAYING ANOTHER GAME WITH YOU EVER AGAIN. THE LOT OF YOU. WHAT THE FUCK.

WHAT THE FUCK.

WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

But you are shocked that a fakeclaim on you worked.

I FUCKING HATE YOU.

I fucking hate you.

AP I HATE YOU SO FUCKING HARD RIGHT NOW. I HATE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[EspeciallyTheLies]

FUCK YOU IN THE EYE AP I'M GOING TO FUCKING KILL YOU TOMORROW.

p-edit NO YOU SCUM FUCK YOU JUST SAID IT WAS FAKE AND NOW

NOW I DONT FUCKING KNOW.

I HATE THIS GAME.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

YOU ARE A LYING SACK OF SHIT

[EspeciallyTheLies]

WHERE IS THE FLIP.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why would you say that

You know you're going down tomorrow if he flips town. So if he's scum then why would you say that

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Town don't say things like that when they caught scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

So why did you say it was a fake claim then

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why are you acting like a scum troll

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You wait for the hammer and then flip a switch

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Like you know, AP.

Why did you say that.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

WHERE IS THE FLIP.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Then why did you say that!! You're the one that said it, AP!

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ANSWER ME.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

But you are shocked that a fakeclaim on you worked.

I FUCKING HATE YOU.

I fucking hate you.

AP I HATE YOU SO FUCKING HARD RIGHT NOW. I HATE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Yeah ok. You're both scum. mollie was right and I should have listened to her yesterday and lynched your ass instead of pasch.

Where is the flip.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

mollie if thor flips town i will sheep you in every game ever.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i feel like an asshole right now about pasch.

p-edit: fuck off ap. just stop talking and go down with your buddy.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'd like to hydra with ETL sometime We'd both be pissed drunk all of the time
~G

lol... yes.

even though you're AP/Thor's partner, I still love you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

but I'm drunk like 2 or 3 nights a week....

pft. I think you know how often I'm drunk.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Idk your cut-off-discussion-with-a-quickhammer-13-days-before-deadline vote was pretty bad, too.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

who the hell are you thor

oh yeah, i know. you're scum. attempting to take me down with you is bullshit.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

who the hell are you thor

oh yeah, i know. you're scum. attempting to take me down with you is bullSmurf.

Holy cow, you really need to work on your fake town anger.
For starters, you need to dial it back by about 75% so it looks remotely real.

Yeah because month-end deadline plus 10 games and my car breaking down isn't enough.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

no. he pretends to know me and comment from the sidelines about how i feel like its a fucking joke.

i caught your scum ass, thor. I caught you on d2.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

<3 mollie

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I think Anti just forgot.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Good thing he doesn't have that rule in his ruleset.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Mollie, don't trust a man with only one nipple.

STFU AND LEMME POST YOU GAIZ.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Oh.



....



Anti can delete it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And anyone reading this would have thought it was a joke or someone else I was talking about if you didn't even mention that you know.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Yeah I don't believe that for a second jiffy.

(but I'm sorry anyway I didn't know the rule)

[EspeciallyTheLies]

No. Nevermind.

No.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

A mudslide is not a girly drink.

It is a fatty drink.

A girly drink would be a strawberry cosmo.

Or a tequila sunrise!

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Oops. I don't read whole sentences before I post.

I thought jiffy couldn't think of a girly drink. I don't think you're a fatty.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I like beer (ambers, browns, porters, stouts), wine (chardonnays, pinot noirs, shiraz), tequila and rum.

I can't stand gin. Or vodka.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I like dirty martinis

love tequil

a

my kinda gal <3

p-edit: jiffy, i am so not surprised that you like bubblegum shit flavored beer.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

gin tastes like.. like... toxic paper.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

[EspeciallyTheLies]

IPAs are still gross.

Like bitter bubblegum flavored rotten jellybean.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I started with guinness, but my boyfriend was working at a microbrewery when i met him, and introduced me to some interesting things.

jiffy, all the IPAs I've tasted had a strange bubblegum taste.

I prefer maltier beers with not so much hops. Maybe that's what it is, a flowery flavor.