Mini 1649: Jabberwocky Mafia (Game Over)

AxleGreaser · Post Post #3 (isolation #0) » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:26 pm

@Mod

As we are through the looking glass. FTFY.

In post 2, goodmorning wrote:
ƨɘvoƚ yʜƚilƨ ɘʜƚ bnɒ ,ǫilliɿd ƨɒwT`
:ɘdɒw ɘʜƚ ni ɘldmiǫ bnɒ ɘɿyǫ biᗡ

Where to begin...?
Oh yes, where we left off.

ʜǫuoɿʜƚ bnɒ ʜǫuoɿʜƚ bnA !owƚ ,ɘnO !owƚ ,ɘnO
!ʞɔɒnƨ-ɿɘʞɔinƨ ƚnɘw ɘbɒld lɒqɿov ɘʜT
VOTE: TSO
.ʞɔɒd ǫniʜqmulɒǫ ƚnɘw ɘH

...
...
...
...
Hmmmm.

␚ʞɔowɿɘddɒႱ ɘʜƚ niɒlƨ uoʜƚ ƨɒʜ ,bnA"
!yod ʜƨimɒɘd ym ,ƨmɿɒ ym oƚ ɘmoƆ

Perhaps I ought start somewhere else.
UNVOTE: TSO

VOTE: Debonair Danny DiPietro
The usual reasons. <I dont do RVS>

Spoiler: utf8

AxleGreaser · Post Post #4 (isolation #1) » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:38 pm

@TSO

I have read your previous games and note that you are student, with periodic assignments and exams. I remember being a student, I had advance notice of each. If due to those RL impediments you know in advance you going to be unable to have a timely commitment to being responsive in the thread please say so in advance to avoid me getting the wrong impression... or the right one.

@farside22

I cant remember quite where but someone said of me they couldn't decide if I was getting

farside

or scum points for my post. I couldn't decide whether they meant farside22, points or actual farside points.
I read a lot, and have seen you around but cant remember details off hand. Can you suggest a town!farside22 game and a scum!farside22 game I can look at to get feel for your play, also if appropriate a a game where you got lots of farside points... <Assuming your name is for reason.>

*picks knife up*

@Seraphim

you are a ye oldie(2008) player of the game. Styles and people change. Could you suggest a town and scum game that I could look at to get a feel for how you expect to play this game.
Also, same as for farside, choose third game too if you think that is a good idea.

@Valkyrie Mollie

How many heads? are they public?

AxleGreaser · Post Post #23 (isolation #2) » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:29 pm

In post 5, TierShift wrote:heeyyyyu
Axlegreaser ur podts are still too long

You want me not to play?

My podts are not too long they have point.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #28 (isolation #3) » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:58 pm

In post 6, Titus wrote:@AxleGreaser, why did you pick those players?

I would guess pirate mollie is one of the heads of VM.

If its a hydra that was my guess, and thus looked like very public hydra
but the other head didnt seem to jump out, (other times i hve seen such hydras they do.) perhaps I just dont know the history.

How long have you been playing? Meta links?

ooo. A tricky question.

4 games on site http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... _MafiaScum
last game was with TSO and Tier.
Some offsite.

Spoiler: more

why did you pick those players?

Why not?
My reasons were pretty much in the posts. & later.

Why not others?
You were a candidate (I've seen you around) but you didn't make the cut (as I cant remember anything useful.)
Tier was a candidate too, but i wanted to interact with Tier by not...(seeing what agenda he set) (liked the voooote, don't like the comment, have a thing about claimed drunk posters...)

AxleGreaser · Post Post #48 (isolation #4) » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:34 pm

In post 40, Elbirn wrote:What's your interest with TSO?

We just played a game together. We have water under the bridge, at least in part it is now I hope clear its not bad blood under the bridge.
(testy and walking on eggshells maybe, but not yet blood)

If you wait and watch it may make more or less sense.
Whatever, I am usually happier to explain my interactions with people after i have made them, rather than during.
Ask again, if you are still interested, after TSO responds.

A one handed clap is hard

AxleGreaser · Post Post #71 (isolation #5) » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:52 pm

In post 58, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:If Witness Protection made a third of the posts he's currently making that would still be too many.

It doesn't matter so much how many posts or how long but what is in them... or not.
claimed drunk == lots of not

but that was not quite the towny post I was looking for.
Status unchanged. <Waiting for Danny to play either scummily or townily.>

AxleGreaser · Post Post #73 (isolation #6) » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:41 pm

In post 61, BRantz wrote:
Well at least I'm not the only one who is confused!

as

In post 51, BRantz wrote:I feel like nothing has happened for two pages.

is there something you could be doing to make yourself less confused?

You are confused about what in particular?

AxleGreaser · Post Post #75 (isolation #7) » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:13 pm

In post 72, farside22 wrote:
Good luck with that.
Tbf it's been some time since I played with triple D so maybe he's more chatty these days.

Doesnt have to be chatty just play...
Drawing conclusions from reading this http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... overview=1 isn't.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #115 (isolation #8) » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:19 pm

In post 106, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:
In post 71, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 58, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:If Witness Protection made a third of the posts he's currently making that would still be
too many
.

It doesn't matter so much how
many
posts or how long but
what is in them
... or not.

1/
Doesn't matter in terms or what?
2/
It can matter in terms of alignment and it definitely matters in terms of game dynamics.

1/

In terms of whatever it is

too many

of?
I assumed we were scum hunting.

2/

Basically (If i am very succinct) I agree with you.
but if i say more words. The number of posts can matter in terms of alignment because if there are that many posts

whats in them

wont be helpful, purposeful.
Too many is loosely correlated, contents is where its at.
My post drew your attention to the shallowness of the contribution you had made up to that point.
and that posting and thinking about content and reasoning was more alignment indicative by you and him.

Now there are other things to do.
UNVOTE: DDD

AxleGreaser · Post Post #116 (isolation #9) » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:09 pm

@thread

but not

@titus

In post 62, Titus wrote:VOTE: Tiershift

Sneaking so a cw forms on me.
<clarified l8r to: I am just going to sneak onto this wagon so people vote me.>

mechanistic, by the numbers

@titus

Titus as indicated earlier from reading my knowledge of your play is limited, #28 " (as I cant remember anything useful.)" but, I have seen you before, this style/focus of getting out of RVS, seems odd.
We could discuss it to death at length here, but I am happier for now seeing what happens.

but in the meantime
Have you done it before? (overtly ask for self to be a CW) When?
Failing that, other times you did a .... 'thing' to get out of RVS.

@tiershift

#5 Ok so maybe you are drunk maybe you are stalling to see the lay of the land, meh.

In post 98, Titus wrote:
In post 91, TierShift wrote:I cannot vote if I haven't read the game yet

Why are me and WP likely the same alignment?

Claims not to have read...is asking questions vased on reads I gace...

This is now a small pattern, please be sure to say when you have read and can be held accountable for your actions or lack of them.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #130 (isolation #10) » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:01 am

In post 129, TierShift wrote:
In post 116, AxleGreaser wrote:This is now a small pattern, please be sure to say when you have read and can be held accountable for your actions or lack of them.

You can always hold me accountable for that!

Earlier you seemed to claim we should not do that.

In post 91, TierShift wrote:I cannot vote if I haven't read the game yet
...

In post 9, TierShift wrote:I'm drunk tits don't nag mE
...

but Ok

VOTE: TierShift

You are now held accountable for being scummier than anyone else is.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #144 (isolation #11) » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:06 pm

In post 135, TierShift wrote:
In post 132, Belisarius wrote:I'm not digging the Tier wagon. It feels too easy.

I don't even know what it's for!

and so

@site admins

Spoiler: technote

</ooc>

AxleGreaser · Post Post #199 (isolation #12) » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:39 pm

In post 144, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 135, TierShift wrote:
In post 132, Belisarius wrote:I'm not digging the Tier wagon. It feels too easy.

I don't even know what it's for!

and so

...

at what point do you intend to start playing?

As scum not playing has the upside... of perhaps people will conclude youre too cool to lynch, and at least there are no associative tells. (I think you are better than that)
As scum: Stalling always is handy as you can see which suspicions, are fashionable before taking a risk.

As town not playing has the upside of ... { } (I am sure you are better than that)

AxleGreaser · Post Post #202 (isolation #13) » Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:19 pm

Spoiler: VM argy bargy

@farside

In post 57, farside22 wrote:Axle: saw your question but I don't have time to do links to games till tomorrow. Most of the time I phone post while I'm running around or at home in a comfy chair having a few minutes to myself.

Do you have time for, you to choose links, yet?
The request for game with farside points is now very optional. (the farside points are not strong in you this game. That concern is gone.)

This request (What i am after) is a little tricky to explain, so humor me....
I am not quite sure what exact interpretaion I should put on this (what you were thinking when you wrote it.)

In post 169, farside22 wrote:Why is it bs Mollie?
Did you look into the games I referenced?

And when the hydra looks into those games you referenced they
"you expect they will see" ... (this bits probably boring, so be brief)
"which means" ....

AxleGreaser · Post Post #203 (isolation #14) » Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:31 pm

In post 152, Witness Protection wrote:@ VM I'm pretty much in agreement. I think we just made a Town bloc?

as they were _mainly_ probably obvious town reads (at that time)

In post 122, Valkyrie Mollie wrote:Probably obvious townreads but I won't lynch any of these folks today.

then I am unsurprised you are pretty much in agreement. <(no dont read that as a poke at you)> (I am unsurprised)

What I seek clarification on is, I cant tell if the language you used means you (at that time) include VM in the town bloc, or you are saying Mollie just elected the other 4 into the town bloc.

I feel(reads to me) like you included Mollie. yes?

AxleGreaser · Post Post #211 (isolation #15) » Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:39 pm

In post 204, Belisarius wrote:Yeah, still not feeling the love for Tier .... wagons,

Id argue with you about your post 165 but I dont want to muddy the clearest water he can post in.

I want Tier to play or die.
I have enough scummy vibes from the little he has posted that, him not playing as well, is dying for me.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #218 (isolation #16) » Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:04 pm

This post got lost in the tabs, chronologically, it belongs up there a bit...

In post 206, Valkyrie Mollie wrote:
In post 205, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 202, AxleGreaser wrote:What a shame I dont.

Spoiler: Here's a hint
Capitalization

Spoiler: Hint 2
Look for alt slip too.

Spoiler: fsck I am bad......

AxleGreaser · Post Post #221 (isolation #17) » Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:11 pm

In post 210, farside22 wrote:As to your question I asked to Mollie I asked her why it's bs. She said my view on titus was bs and didn't explain why, I also pointed to a game we were both in where titus was less then active so she hasn't explained to me why my knowledge of titus is NS.

Let me know if I missed anything.

If you did it was my fault i was being deliberately vague.
The Titus/mollie/FS game you pointed #170 to either

Explains your original Titus read.
or
Justifies your existing Titus read.

not quite the same thing,
I am pretty sure you say those links to games justify the read on Titus as scum.

I have reading to do and places to go. l8r.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #230 (isolation #18) » Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:46 am

In post 229, farside22 wrote:@axle: why are you okay with vm dodging questions?

I am not, and if I inadvertently did i was wrong.

Spoiler: exceptions

You have not specified what questions but I am guessing you mean this.

In post 210, farside22 wrote:As to your question I asked to Mollie I asked her why it's bs. She said my view on titus was bs and didn't explain why,

and this which is kind of the same question

In post 169, farside22 wrote:Why is it bs Mollie?
Did you look into the games I referenced?

Spoiler: Where i think Mollie already had in effect answered those questions

What I should make of you not noticing that, or understanding it the way I do, or why VM has not clarified that.
are all things I don't yet understand.

Either that or I am wrong and that is not VMs answer to those questions and VM is dodging.

Assuming, 97 is not a flat out lie then I don't agree with your reasons 93 for Titus.
and while I don't know what ofwtf is, I do know I have some.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #231 (isolation #19) » Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:58 am

In post 228, farside22 wrote:
In post 221, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 210, farside22 wrote:As to your question I asked to Mollie I asked her why it's bs. She said my view on titus was bs and didn't explain why, I also pointed to a game we were both in where titus was less then active so she hasn't explained to me why my knowledge of titus is NS.

Let me know if I missed anything.

If you did it was my fault i was being deliberately vague.
The Titus/mollie/FS game you pointed #170 to either

Explains
your original Titus read.
or

Justifies your existing Titus read.

not quite the same thing,
I am pretty sure you say those links to games justify the read on Titus as scum.

I have reading to do and places to go. l8r.

All the games I referenced are the games I've played with titus.
I maybe missing one or two but I can't remeber every game I've played.
But yea off the top of my head 3 completed games I played with titus, all with an inactive titus.

Ok so that

explains

why its is not scummy of you to have made your original read. (potentially an honest mistake)
(I am cool with that, I am voting Tier not you, and its for that and other reasons.)

Do you still claim Titus is scummy,

because he is not as inactive he was the other times you played with

inactive!Titus

?

if so why are the times molly played with

Chatty!Titus

not also valid games to draw meta from?

Basically, Huh?

AxleGreaser · Post Post #259 (isolation #20) » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:48 pm

Down to the line this establish a piece of basic mafia knowledge that i know you know.

In post 236, farside22 wrote:I voted Titus
I stated what I see from titus typically
Mollie called my read on titus bs.
None of what you quoted explain mollies reasons for finding my read on titus bs. She has said it more then once.
I referenced a game all 3 of us were in because if she is pushing my read on Titus as bs I'm asking her why based on a game all 3 of us have been in.
Why is that unclear to you?

when I asked you for 1 town 1 scum game you gave me three Town, two scum. #210

That tells me that, you know that in order to use meta, you cant just use specific examples but need to see whats normal and whats not.

Thus:

That you have an example or even few, where Titus is

In post 210, farside22 wrote:less then active

is not alignment indicative if there are others where as Mollie says

In post 97, Valkyrie Mollie wrote:I spend the majority of my time politely asking titus to stfu

So in terms of titus alignment your original tell is null and empty: wrong. (wrong is not necessarily scummy but can be.)

However at some time #168 VM read you as scum a million times for being wrong about that.
I disagree, you could be scum who knows they have meta of Titus and use that as an excuse to scum read Titus badly, or even scum that just made a mistake.

Something you are failing to clarify, is when you ask for instance

In post 169, farside22 wrote:Why is it bs Mollie?

Is that you claiming the Titus read is valid and he is scummy for that reason.

or

that your misread on Titus is understandable as town and hence not as scummy as VM makes out?

For me unless you are still claiming

In post 93, farside22 wrote:I voted for you because you are not typically a Chatty Cathy asking lots of questions.

is a valid read and not
a read based on insufficient meta (as Titus is apparently only sometimes "less then active"(as seen by you) and sometimes plays "stfu"(as seen by mollie))

unless you are stuill claiming Titus is scummy for that reason I am nto real interested in that read, nor in calling you scummy for it.

As i stated here

In post 202, AxleGreaser wrote:Also i am pretty sure your Million times over would be based on meta, that I dont yet have...

Someone will need to put something else on the table for the Million times over to make sense to me.

VM is not voting you....
You are voting VM.

What do I think of that:

I dont think I actually object to your vote. 190 has other reasons. (at least some of which are about VM?) But yeah spotaneous town lists like that(122) feel funny to me(and are easy for scum to do) but I observe that other people do them as town.(so i try to ignore them). I questioned, wp(203) because I cant see VM in the town bloc or a reason, back then for it,

and if you were profitably digging to clarify your, and hence my read, with your vote on Mollie it would be wonderful.

I am not getting anything much out of you wanting to know why VM, wont agree that just because on some occasion in the past (but not others) Titus is sometimes not chatty, that not being chatty this time makes him scum.

and given that your not voting Titus, and VM is not voting you, why all the focus on what is not useful or relevant

AxleGreaser · Post Post #260 (isolation #21) » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:01 pm

In post 237, farside22 wrote:
In post 232, Titus wrote:This feels wierd.

I don't think farside is scum bc they would not push something blatantly false.

Can you point to a game we've been in with you as active from the get go?

I'm pretty tired of people saying something is false were I have no experience with you this way before.

Missed this:

Ah, Ok that is progress.

Spoiler:

@Vm

could you provide links to games where you have had to

In post 97, Valkyrie Mollie wrote:I spend the majority of my time politely asking titus to stfu

Note i expect significant literary license with "majority of my time" and or "politely" but at least one stfu(or its metric equivalent) per game would be nice....

Then we can either decide someone is scummy for this, or move on to the rest of peoples basis for their reads.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #266 (isolation #22) » Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:26 pm

In post 263, farside22 wrote:Axle: you realize the Mollie had voted me right? You realize she has still expressed a scum read based on that reason right?

Yep. and Yep.
(I have some suspicion but not a million times over, and less than I do for Tier)

Your _current_ meta read on Titus does not make sense to me. if there are counter examples of him being chatty it is not valid. (ninja'd now there is one #265)

That you were only interested in the times you had seen Titus be not chatty,

and not interested immediately back then in seeing the counter (stfu) examples, that Mollie said existed. Didn't seem right. (as town, but also doesnt seem quite right as scum? as in ofwtf, rang true for me)

In terms of suspicion on VM,

This post 168 represents a level of suspicion that is larger than I see as warranted,

"million times over"

(town people do that/scum fuck up)

stiring the nest, but fishing for other people to make the push

In post 194, Valkyrie Mollie wrote:if any1 wants help me convince guy that far is scum plz feel free to!!!

that can be scummy, (not owning/distancing from own push) and concerns me more than the "million times over"

AxleGreaser · Post Post #275 (isolation #23) » Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:50 pm

In post 269, farside22 wrote:You seem to use double talk a lot when explaining things.
Please link me to your town and scum game.

already done #28

Double talk:

93 states scum read reason based on meta. it is refuted shortly afterwards. 94 97
You pursue the read basing meta on just two games despite knowing there are claimed counter examples 95
You challenge Mollie to refute meta read based on examples of meta you chose 170
You are all aboard the basis of your meta read....

but you want me to explain....

In post 270, farside22 wrote:Also I don't doubt or question when players say titus has been chatty when there is more then one stating that, but again you axle have yet to explain to me how my read coming into this and expressing my view at the time means anything?

I don't and didn't say, i had (real) problem about what you did

"at the time"

, mistakes based on your personal experience of Titus meta is entirely plausible.

It was lack of curiosity, afterwards once it had been said in the thread that counter examples existed
and you bull headedly went ahead with but yes I have this example of titus being not chatty. (one example does not a meta make)
That was what piqued me.

Spoiler: rider (real)

More Double Talk:

VM, wants to claim

In post 168, Valkyrie Mollie wrote:I think far is scum.

VOTE: farside a trillion times over

reason being I think her read on titus is bs.

yet
also wants what is known in ye olde Aus vernacular as "A bob each way". (a bob is old money)

In post 194, Valkyrie Mollie wrote:if any1 wants help me convince guy that far is scum plz feel free to!!!

In post 253, Valkyrie Mollie wrote:I think guy and i are gonna fight.

That is so bad I parodied the 194 offer here 218

So I will do you a deal.
if you stop double talking, I will stop responding to it.

You either think your meta read on Titus is still valid with the claimed counter examples or you dont. Say which clearly.
This post by VM

In post 253, Valkyrie Mollie wrote:you
have
a really weird meta read on titus that is why I am sooper dooper sus of you.

Clearly is a claim they think you still

(

have

is present tense)

stand behind your Titus meta read.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #302 (isolation #24) » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:21 am

In post 297, Valkyrie Mollie wrote:axle I have no idea what you are tying to say in your big long post cos it doesn't make sense to me cos I am not sure how I can be any more transparent then stating that I think far is scum and I thought guy and I were going to fight cos when we talked prior he wasn't seeing it.

Not understanding me is fine, the cause of that was me not understanding where your and far are coming from, not sure i do yet.

In post 275, AxleGreaser wrote:
You either think your meta read on Titus is still valid with the claimed counter examples or you dont. Say which clearly.
This post by VM

In post 253, Valkyrie Mollie wrote:you
have
a really weird meta read on titus that is why I am sooper dooper sus of you.

Clearly is a claim they think you still
(
have
is present tense)
stand behind your Titus meta read.

I tried asking farside, she has not clarified it.
The post 253 by you above.

uses the the word. "

have

" I take that to mean you believe Farside still has a meta read of Titus based on Titus being all chatty this game but not in the example games Farside cited.

Is that the case?

Please explain exactly, with links or at least post numbers, what it is you are scum reading farside for.

farside here

In post 270, farside22 wrote:Also I don't doubt or question when players say titus has been chatty when there is more then one stating that, but again you axle have yet to explain to me how my read coming into this and expressing my view
at the time
means anything?

Indicates she is claiming he does not have it now, but is trying to represent the scum claims against her are based around saying it was an unreasonable mistake to make back then (

at the time

), when all her personal experience of Titus as shown in the links was non chatty.

Yet as i showed she has in some sense continued to pursue the read as i see it.

In post 275, AxleGreaser wrote:You pursue the read basing meta on just two games despite knowing there are claimed counter examples 95
You challenge Mollie to refute meta read based on examples of meta you chose 170
You are all aboard the basis of your meta read....

I too dont understand what is being said.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #311 (isolation #25) » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:40 pm

In post 310, BRantz wrote:Who is jon?

#97 might lead you to think jon was farside, the previously referenced player... in that post
but 100 replies to that point and it was WP that spammed the thread in Varsoon(a bastard game) due to a post restriction.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #319 (isolation #26) » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:25 pm

@thread

In post 317, farside22 wrote:
mod: LA/V till Saturday. Sorry I just got a bit of RL things that hit all at once.

I will be going away for the weekend (in my TZ) Approx departure (expired on 2015-03-07 15:00:00) (sat arvo my time...)
return (rubbery) (expired on 2015-03-09 21:00:00) (Sometime late my monday) <these times rendered right in preview>

@mod

will PM you and post 3 day VLA at appropriate time. (fri evening my time...)

which isnt a problem for

In post 301, goodmorning wrote:
With 13 alive, it takes
7
to lynch. The day will end in (expired on 2015-03-10 20:00:00).

@Belisarius

However, if you want to hear more on this because you cant read me. <

and yeah I am intrigued by empty reads too.

>

In post 316, Belisarius wrote:
In post 299, farside22 wrote:

Axel is starting to be a scum read.

I want to hear more on this. I can't read Axel.

Then you need to find something you don't understand or think might be alignment indicative and dig there.
I dont always bite. (and skip: never does)

Choose your own topic or start here.

earlier I waved people off with this

In post 211, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 204, Belisarius wrote:Yeah, still not feeling the love for Tier .... wagons,

Id argue with you about your post 165 but I don't want to muddy the clearest water he can post in.

I want Tier to play or die.
I have enough scummy vibes from the little he has posted that, him not playing as well, is dying for me.

The reason is the case on Tier is thin, as is his posting.
Him going first playing and taking the risk of posting as a towny, was the fairest opportunity for him to show us if he is town if he is, and the scariest one if hes scum. (think of that like really subtle reaction test, I do stuff tiers response or lack thereof is alignment indicative.)
Me showing my hand first lets him then tailor his play to my read, and makes me guess whether hes scum doing that or town.

<Statement of fact>: Tier is not to busy IRL to play mafia at all. He is just is choosing not to play in this game.

Given that time is running out, and Tier seems determined to just hope, and brazen this out.
I am now willing to discuss why I think Tier is scum without him first responding to any of the reasons stated by other people or playing at all.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #322 (isolation #27) » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:27 pm

In post 301, goodmorning wrote:

Voter Group 1.
TierShift [L-3] -
Elbirn, Titus, AxleGreaser, Witness Protection

Voter Group 2.
BRantz [L-5] -
Valkyrie Mollie, hi im Yakko

Valkyrie Mollie [L-5] -
farside22, T S O

Voter Group 3.
AxleGreaser [L-6] -
TierShift

Belisarius [L-6] -
Seraphim

farside22 [L-6] -
BRantz

hi im Yakko [L-6] -
Aeronaut

Aeronaut [L-6] -
Belisarius

@Group 1

Good job you are voting the scummiest guy in the thread, and hes lead wagon.

@Group 2

Not too bad, you are voting alternate wagonettes, and even though they clearly inferior wagons to my shiny Tier wagon, your reasons are not all crap. It would however make you look less like group 3 players, if, in the very near future, I could definitively point to where you are trying to get your wagon lynched.

@Group 3

Hi....
Are you guys playing the same game as me?

Spoiler: for 3 out of 5 thats a nope.

decide who you want lynched...

then

say why... and

then

try to make it happen.

Vote parking on vanity wagons (and calling those that is I think generous) is not useful, either get your pet wagon into at least class 2 territory, or work out who of the people you can get lynched you want to get lynched.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #323 (isolation #28) » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:21 pm

Reasons already in the thread prior 135, that Tier is scum.
That they are already there is relevant because, 135

In post 135, TierShift wrote:I don't even know what it's for!

Spoiler: A not entirely serious Elbrin reason

While not a good reason, and probably IMO not intended to be, it is the first vote on Tier that I think is a bit serious. (its also the first one thats still there)

despite starting as sneaking so a cw forms
Titus has stated these reasons.

In post 85, Titus wrote:
We should have been out of RVS when Tier reacted negatively to one of my first posts. Yet he did not cast a serious vote against me.

In post 86, Titus wrote:Tier's lack of voting me I find very odd btw.

In post 98, Titus wrote:Claims not to have read...is asking questions vased on reads I gace...

And those reasons were given in the post he is asking about wtf

Tier does find out about the same alignment issue/misunderstanding

In post 105, TierShift wrote:oh, thanks for explaining, elbirn, I indeed misunderstood.

Spoiler: mine

New reasons.

So, considering the above, is Tier trying to work the game out?
Nope.
Tier is scum.

Is tier working towards: a sentiment of shutting things down? or solving the game?

Spoiler: quote wall

Kicking back and coasting.

and then there is Titus's handy TLDR: (links added by me)

In post 158, Titus wrote:Tier thinks I made a bad post. Refuses to vote me. 91
Tier has posts denying he has read the thread while selectively responding to content. #91 (91)
Tier has provided no content. { }
Tier has refused to vote me despite being the only player he reacted negatively to. (prolly reaction in 67)

So guys voting wagons you reasonably believe could be todays lynch or at the very least explaining why you wont vote this one.
and then explaining what you are doing to get the alternative lynched.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #324 (isolation #29) » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:48 am

In post 189, BRantz wrote:@WP: Farside moved up to my top scum read because she accuses me of not saying anything, ...

@Brantz

who was your top scum read before that?

AxleGreaser · Post Post #352 (isolation #30) » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:56 pm

First dealing with some stuff, so it does not stick in my craw

In post 328, TierShift wrote:I see I'm being wagoned.

Nothing really changed, except you got to see I was not as tunneled on you D1, as I was on TSO last game.

Playing eventually, because your being wagoned is not a good look. If we dont lynch you today do we have to wagon you or you wont play tomorrow?

In post 351, TierShift wrote:I cannot mess up this game for others by not contributing

This didnt change, you were already choosing not to contribute to this game.

other AtE in 328 etal duly ignored.

In post 330, TierShift wrote:sick of axle

dont feel bad, I am sick of you, and perhaps more accurately of that schtick too.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #354 (isolation #31) » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:27 pm

In post 337, TierShift wrote:
I'm being wagoned for posting in this game without reading for a few days, which is a very shitty tell, especially during the first few days. I agree that I have no content up to today, but that isn't indicative of alignment.

Its now longer than the first few days. You are being wagoned by me for the reasons I posted, (

oh but you conveniently claim not to have read my posts past page 2...

) not just that one tell.
and the tell was, 91 implicitly claiming

not to have read

yet posting a question about content

you had read

. Which is not a shitty tell.

and now you argue

hiding

in the lurkers is indicative of others alignment?

In post 337, TierShift wrote:A last general remark is that there is an insane amount of lurkers; I'm pretty sure
scum is hiding in them
. It is really awful to have been a part of this and it will not happen again. I really think we need to look at the lurkers since I have pretty weak reads overall while the active players have really been quite active. I think there just hasn't been enough scum talking

I will be responding to some of your posts but an actual judgement, I will leave until i get back Monday. (I think I am a bit, biased today)

Different things are alignment indicative at different levels of player. While I would like that you asked questions in your catch up. That you then go VLA, and the shot gun load of questions thus lack purpose direction and followup is not so good. If the question had been asked at the time, and responded too, that ship sailed.
That you have stated an intention not to read my responses to your posts... not so good.

Indicating you have us on drip feed " I feel like I've given enough with my catchup here," providing only as much as is required... not so good.

"And this game is shitty omg a lurker is still the biggest wagn" as I said above the wagon is for lurking

and

being scummy in the little you did post.

In post 334, TierShift wrote:I'm sorry, what responses do you want from me?

I thought I was clear

In post 211, AxleGreaser wrote:I want Tier to play or die.

So is tier playing? is the content he has now posted alignment indicative or is it the stuff he can too easily fake?
That I will decide on Monday.

Spoiler:

AxleGreaser · Post Post #355 (isolation #32) » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:47 pm

In post 350, Valkyrie Mollie wrote:
Why is this not dead yet seriously

I can see that being surprising.
I was dumbfounded.

When i asked

In post 324, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 189, BRantz wrote:@WP: Farside moved up to my top scum read because she accuses me of not saying anything, ...

@Brantz

who was your top scum read before that?

I was looking for an insight into BRantz's thinking. BRantz: "moved up to my top scum"
Indicates a claim about an existing set of reads. It reads just like the kind of thing lot of people say.
However it didnt really gel with

Spoiler: Brantz Quotes

Which claim being lost? and confused. Which sounds like claim to NOT have list of scum reads where there are some people not at the top. (After all nothing has happened)

Basically "moved up to my top scum read" does and did not not feel like genuine representation of what happened.

However... another reactionary flip flop? !

AxleGreaser · Post Post #361 (isolation #33) » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:50 pm

In post 360, hi im Yakko wrote:catching up, ask me things. got some time.

I dont.

You are voting Brantz and were even before Tiers catchup.
Whats is your view of Tiers catchup posts?

AxleGreaser · Post Post #397 (isolation #34) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:35 am

@hi im Yakko

In post 361, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 360, hi im Yakko wrote:catching up, ask me things. got some time.

I dont.

You are voting Brantz and were even before Tiers catchup.
Whats is your view of Tiers catchup posts?

Even though VM gave a view, I would still like to ask you for yours.

Spoiler:

I was sure I have a, VM level, followup question for VM, I will see if I can phrase (pars-ably) it tomorrow when i wake up.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #418 (isolation #35) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:39 am

In post 415, TierShift wrote:Titus why the freaking fuck would I do the wagon lurk? I kick ass as scum.

and curl up in ball and whimper as town?

AxleGreaser · Post Post #419 (isolation #36) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:01 am

@Tier

Despite the previous provocative post... At this time do NOT answer this question. It is (until VM answers) a question for VM.

@VM

In post 362, Valkyrie Mollie wrote:we think tier is town.

Ok so if you think Tier is town, then please convince me to vote your preferred wagon...
by explaining this part of your town read.

A thing I like to have to go along with my read is story i can tell my self where the players actions are consistent, I can make up bits but there must be at least one plausible story to go with the alignment i am
reading. If there are no plausible stories then that is inconsistent with the read.

In Tiers case my problem is "Why the

wagon Lurk

" (Which take to be why Lurk when earlier the lead wagon is on Tier, and the game is stalled on Tiers wagon. Choosing not play at that time is different to just lurking/not playing that others have done.)

At that point Tier chose to do other things other than play in this game.

The (A possible) scum story is that: If the alternate wagon(brantz) was not on scum, but the alternate scum were potentially vulnerable. Then stalling the day out for a bit, then towning it up is way more likely to wind up with the Lynch merely flipping onto Brantz rather than finding, time to run him up notice it didn't feel right and find another... Thus possible story exists (yes there is some preflip in it, but if there are no stories (for any possible flips) then it would be problem. There are stories so while not evidnce it is true (preflip is bad) Its not evidence its false.

There exists the possibility of at least one strategically good reason to stall the days play.

I don't find a towny story for Tier not playing while he was lead wagon, and effectively had captive audience of people voting him to interact with, but chose not to. Why does towny (who can play) just choose not to?
Explain why

wagon Lurk

is not giving you pause for thought.

I dont find at least one strategically good reason to stall the days play.

Do you have towny story for Tier. or you just claim to think hes town but dont know why?

AxleGreaser · Post Post #442 (isolation #37) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:29 pm

In post 436, Flubbernugget wrote:I can never understand what the fuck he's talking about

In post 436, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 424, Elbirn wrote:
In post 416, Flubbernugget wrote:
Has axl been viged yet?

Why would he be? I think he's town.
Why do you want Axl to be vigged?

I can never understand what the fuck he's talking about

TLDR

: Try talking to me,... and asking?(

it(working stuff out) is the point of the game?

)

Benefits:

1/ I will get read on you... That is, unless, me getting a read on you is a problem?
2/ Your question, will tell me better what you do or dont know, and I will respond in way tailored to be understood by you. (

so: hint: use lots of words in your question. I will need them to understand you. See 1.

)

3/ It is true i understand the world (

and hence probably mafia

) quite differently to most people I meet, I spend most of my time when writing a post working out what to put in

(because you need to be told that bit)

and what to leave out(

because everyone knows that

).
4/ Sometimes a certain amount of hard to understand is deliberate (sorry) What misunderstanding and spin people choose to put on stuff is alignment indicative as it came out of their heads... (See 1/)

Either that or you could just take the approach of

kill anything you don't understand...

That seems to work for some people.

So does that help?

5/ You get a read on me.
6/ When I find scum, you notice and vote them too.
...

AxleGreaser · Post Post #444 (isolation #38) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:11 pm

In post 307, BRantz wrote:@Axle: Why don't you start playing this game instead of
continually
asking people to give you meta on everything?

In post 427, BRantz wrote:
AxleGreaser: Axle posts a ton of walls, but seems to focus too much on meta and not enough on what is going on in the game (though this has gotten better in the last few pages).

I am having trouble believing this post comes from you reading the thread and trying to understand it.

You suggest i am continually "asking people to give you meta on everything?"

I did spend some posts trying to sort out what VM and farside were really saying in their interactions about meta. circa: 259 (but that post is clearly all about this game)
I did when there was no content in the game, do a kind of variant on RQS at the start of the game. 4
I did reply to specific questions, about meta. 28 48

"

continually

"

Please give two examples of me doing what you say is continual and we will look at what i did between them, and why I did the examples you give.

Apart from walls Id have thought the other primary distinguishing feature of my posts was my tendency to link to exactly what happened in this game that I am talking about.
Your post 427 feels like a broadbrush go with the flow(416 417) smear

AxleGreaser · Post Post #453 (isolation #39) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:14 am

In post 447, BRantz wrote:@Axle: Post 4 is your first request for meta information. Then you self meta (in response to a question about it) in 28.

So one is me getting game going when there is nothing else to post about and the other is me answering a question..... So if you have problem witht he topic of the answer you ought be talking to the person that asked it..?

I am not sure what you did in 144 but remember feeling it was meta related, feel free to correct me on this.

WAT.
You linked to it and its a post linking Tier to a filter of this game... where he can find out "I don't even know what it's for!" Its me somewhat sarcastically pointing out that he could solve his problem the obvious way (read the game) instead of stalling.

You request meta from farside again in 202.

yes indeed I did re ask the question that had not been answered when i asked it the first time....
Do you have a problem with that?
It was also relevant to working out what I thought of the dispute between VM and far. Far had made rad based on meta, VM had called bullshit on the read, and far was scum reading back VM for it. various questions arise, was it a fake fight between scum? a TvT , or a caught scum? Only getting up to sped on the meta involved lets you evaluate their various claims.

221 starts your discussion with farside about meta (specifically on Titus). Then 231 more meta talk. 259 is basically just a giant meta argument.

The main point of 221, was an attempt to get clarity on the either or Phrase tight prominently in the middle of the post. What exactly was the read being claimed. *I* dont talk about the meta, I ask which of the two versions of the read is their position.

No that is not what 259 is. It was unclear even up to there whether or not farside was still claiming titus was scum for

In post 93, farside22 wrote:I voted for you because you are not typically a Chatty Cathy asking lots of questions.

or whether it had been accepted that VM's experience with Titus negated that read.

I still cant see this

In post 444, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 307, BRantz wrote:@Axle: Why don't you start playing this game instead of
continually
asking people to give you meta on everything?

In post 427, BRantz wrote:
AxleGreaser: Axle posts a ton of walls, but seems to focus too much on meta and not enough on what is going on in the game (though this has gotten better in the last few pages).

I am having trouble believing this post comes from you reading the thread and trying to understand it.

I am however getting the vibe you are wrong not pushing an agenda.

post split here.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #454 (isolation #40) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:15 am

some peopel indicate they are wall challenged.

@Thread.

However if deadline rolls up and Brantz and Seraphim are still the only two lynches on offer. I will if given a choice hammer Seraphim.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #455 (isolation #41) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:16 am

In post 452, TierShift wrote:VOTE: brantz
This the wagon yo

why?

Not why how or where is he bad, wrong, ...

show me scum.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #456 (isolation #42) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:20 am

In post 451, TierShift wrote:Sera wagon forms too fast to be scum

How else would it form given the time of day.
And if it forms fast, most of the decisions to make it go are town... exactly why cant it form quickly and what would scum have done about it?

AxleGreaser · Post Post #457 (isolation #43) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:36 am

In post 446, Valkyrie Mollie wrote:VOTE: Sera

#Justice

@VM

you missed a question at you here 419

AxleGreaser · Post Post #459 (isolation #44) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:18 am

In post 458, TierShift wrote:I don't like how there is the 'maybe we'll vote sera' sentiment but no one actually does it while there's a bigger wagon. The wagon that forms now is huge and rapid and has a few players on it that look like they are reeeaaaallly happy to let go off the leading wagon (brantz), especially brantz himself looks very opportunistic in that regard.

I base my vote solely off his latest readslist, axle. Go reread his stances before the wagons changed and after they changed. They are extremely self-preserving.

UNVOTE: Tier

Really self preserving is thing that been in the Brantz, iso for a while.
other than that I need to sleep on it.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #479 (isolation #45) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:34 am

In post 466, TierShift wrote:
Major problem is that a sera townflip will tell us absolutely nothing in regards of associative tells.

Not quite nothing but the push on Sera was thin and late, I suspect mostly driven by not liking the Brantz wagon either. (So Id agree with tell us nothing)

I have not seen any convincing evidence sera is scum other than powerlurking which is a meh tell. I don't want to go into tomorrow with a deadline town wagon.

just assume I said something snide here.

I'd much rather have a more probable scumflip in brantz and a useful day 2 even if he flips town.

...

Town and scum are self-preserving in different ways. Town don't just flip their read on someone because they aren't the big wagon anymore, scum do.

Who flipped their read,

"because they aren't the big wagon anymore," ?

Joining the big wagon is something town do at times, but it's a much more consistent scumtell than lurking.

Town know 100% everyone else is more likely to flip scum than themselves. Even making shit up to excuse voting the self preserving wagon, is I think commonish amongst newer players.
The votes 171 339 427 All have other weak scum tells. Even 51 is problematic, as apparently the "joke" is RVS

In post 359, BRantz wrote:a joke that I made in RVS.

but the vote in the same post/period

In post 339, BRantz wrote:Tier was, but I felt far was a better place to be than Tier because
tier was mostly gut
.

wasnt RVS, but was at the time distanced with "just cuz."

AxleGreaser · Post Post #481 (isolation #46) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:48 am

In post 474, Elbirn wrote:Axle has declared willingness to hammer either I believe.

Not in this game, but in previous games I believe I will have declared a general willingness to hammer any wagon, at end of day.

In post 475, Elbirn wrote:Oops, apologies, Axl said that given a choice he will hammer Seraphim. So that's a townlean pseudo on the Seraphim wagon. Looking better imo.

Tier looking better makes me less decided. Before that i felt herded by the days play onto the Brantz wagon.

Also I had forgotten about this mechanic, and its effects.

In post 477, goodmorning wrote:He has 5-6 hours to pick up his prod.

letting Sera off the hook after 356 is a bad plan, but this game is not played against people but against the slot.

As the slot might get replaced with someone useful, that is not such a real need to find some way to deal with Sera.
My bad.

I think Id lean towards a Brantz Lynch, but at the moment I dont have a choice, as we dont even have a Sera vote and there is only 1 L-1 wagon.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #482 (isolation #47) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:11 pm

In post 480, TierShift wrote:Brantz flipped his read on me because I wasn't the leading wagon anymore. That's how I see it, at least.

Ah, I hadn't thought about the vote situation being the reason for the read change. For me causality goes the other way, reads => votes.

In post 427, BRantz wrote:but rereading it there is certainly more than I initially gave it credit for, and his posting since then feels very proactive. Mild town.

this is convenient. retroactive.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #496 (isolation #48) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:15 pm

In post 490, Valkyrie Mollie wrote:
In post 457, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 446, Valkyrie Mollie wrote:VOTE: Sera

#Justice

@VM

you missed a question at you here 419

Because Tier-scum kicks ass and he's being lame as hell rite now thus town.

Tier knows Tier can kick ass as scum 415, if he doesn't need to this game, or its good idea not to...
you think he cant not "kick ass" for part of d1.
and if he starts playing you might then scum read him?

We are Through the Looking Glass indeed.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #498 (isolation #49) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:30 pm

In post 497, TierShift wrote:Why is scum-me more likely not to vote a scumread than town-me?

Here is you making a post that makes waves not enemies. It appears useful as a scum post and largely pointless as a town one.

In post 67, TierShift wrote:Hey farside we agree on something! May this bode well for our future!

believing this

In post 334, TierShift wrote:
In post 303, Titus wrote:Yeah Farside is likely town. She has a nasty habit of scumreading disagreement as town.

True that.

means scum!tier egging on a town!farside v town!titus makes sense.

means scum!tier egging on a town!farside v scum!titus also makes some sense, but is harder in that I would also have to guess you thought the point would not gain traction. That you were indirectly backing Farside on an inaccurate interpretation of Titus's words in 62 makes that plausible.

not rocket science.

I am not sure i get sincerity, with you still not understanding there are problems with 67 and 91.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #501 (isolation #50) » Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:08 am

Hi:

@FA_Q2

,

posts 454 was my previous position on hammering Seraphim
I reconsidered that in 481

So you are on L-1, but its perhaps not that bad.

There is an obvious conclusion for who you will find scummy. (well scummier than you say you are)

I'd suggest doing something more than just the obvious would be helpful.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #507 (isolation #51) » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:30 pm

In post 506, FA_Q2 wrote:Just got in and reviewing the thread.

Need some time to go over the twenty pages. Not good that I have to start from an L-1 position. Any synapses id the game so far would be helpful.

me hearing your synapses work is my idea.
but heres an index to the votes on you to save you menial leg work. (hope I got them all, out of time bye)

dont have long at the moment but as i recall it, votes on you and negative comments started about here WP 370

game context in broad strokes is Tier, the former lead wagon, had started posting. and then went VLA.
There or soon after the Tier wagon lost steam.
422 Elbrin votes Sera
427 Brantz votes sera.
440 far votes sera
443 Beli votes Sera
446 VM votes Sera.
454 481 I indicate then amend my position.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #522 (isolation #52) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:57 am

In post 519, BRantz wrote:But in seriousness, Axle this is going to come down to you.
If
When
you decide to hammer one way or the other please give intent first so whichever of us it is can claim.

FTFY: When decide.

The thread appears to have played itself out.
Intent to

hammer BRantz.

@Thread: There are reasons if you want them, mainly they are the obvious in the thread ones.

@BRantz

time to claim.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #535 (isolation #53) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:03 am

In post 533, Titus wrote:Ready for hammer.

except for this

In post 524, FA_Q2 wrote:Just checking in before the day ends - will not be back on until 1800 pacific time. Please do not hammer before that time.

he may have just meant don't derp hammer him, or he may want to be sure he can post, last reads in twilight. (as i did here) 102
Its only time, so I will wait.
Its currently 7:59 PDT. we have 35 hrs.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #561 (isolation #54) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:52 pm

@Thread

yeah this post has words, lots, and refers to stuff. Please really read all of them. Dont skim.

A rather short time ago....
This was your claimed state of mind with how happy you were with the lynch situation.

In post 521, TierShift wrote:I'm up for deadline wagons. Sooooo up.

Then on the basis of >>

just

<< this one post

In post 532, BRantz wrote:I am just a vt. Do what you gotta do axle.

@FA: why would I change something that works for me just because people have a hard time reading it correctly?

when this was the

Spoiler: previous similar Brantz post

In post 537, TierShift wrote:UNVOTE:

Pretty damn sure
brantz is town due to latedt reactions to getting hammered.

VOTE: faq
I don't like their latest post wrt farside. Am somewhat okay with this lynch.

TLDR 1:

I do not accept your claim that your read changed on the basis of the information you say it did.
The previous Brantz post was quite similar, and you were all systems go for the lynch. 521

and even though there is in fact one post that swayed your mind in that interval,

In post 543, TierShift wrote:Great, what do you think of brantz's latest
posts
?

you when re-imagining your own past refer to it(one post) as plural.

What else happened in between is I declared intent to hammer. Then you suddenly get change of heart. I dont see the new information that came from. I see distancing.

TLDR 2:

I still intend to Hammer Brantz sometime after 18:00 PDT.

That is, unless of course Tier winds up at L-1 in the next little bit... then Id "reconsider"....

AxleGreaser · Post Post #569 (isolation #55) » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:41 pm

OK, its long enough after 18:00 PDT for anyone that wanted to say anything to have their chance.

VOTE: BRantz

AxleGreaser · Post Post #1316 (isolation #56) » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:32 pm

town hit 2 for 2 day 2.
gg.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #1347 (isolation #57) » Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:25 pm

In post 1340, Witness Protection wrote:
@ good morning
When you get time, I'd be interested in the Roles and their mechanics. Especially ones like the TumTum Tree.

pedit @ Elbirn I used to be a tunneler, and I'd write walls on why Town were scum all the time. * Waves at gm* I'm more cautious now. I need a little bit of that aggression back (I think).

I enjoyed my short stay in Town, and the company, even the scums!

I am here, and the PM's are all in post #1 in the dead thread. I ...can... copy them over as I am here... or we can wait for GM... or someone I *trust* that knows etiquette can say post them.
Choose whether or not you want to know if I (RL) trust your, RL judgment, at your own ego's own peril.

In terms of parphrasing, FAQ2 got it real close. It says sword has to be in the right hands.

Significant Roles and PMs you dont know about are:

The sword Item

:
The decision was made by the holder in the daytime (both the pass and the kill) (hence it was defined as an unblockable day action. (hence some in game thread comments at the end of the day)
Thus scum cannot RB the swords snicker snack nor the pass and the scum don't know that.
Further the pass list was a prioritised list. So VM could choose who to pass it to.
AND i think possibly unknown to VM? (PMs?)(but guessable?) if the target of the pass was killed then "prioritised" meant in went to the next choice.
Also the sword could not be given back to anyone that had held it already.
Note the pass was resolved in NR order after the kill.

This meant that, unknown to me, my role the suicidal Jabberwocky was virtually certain to die before endgame.
Well in fact to survive I the jabberwocky needed to do the counter intuitive thing to NOT kill the townsword holder(beamish boy) so that he could get hold of the sword and keep it
then hope I convinced him not to kill me. (leaving town with double kills all game.... not a good plan)(but there was no way to get the sword out of towns control, as at worst they pretty much always knew where it went last.)

Suicidal Jabberwocky:

I(jabberwocky) was suicidal in that if anyone ever gifted me the sword I died.
I assumed that scum would have some means to counter that, and hence planned around gaining control of the sword.
I also thought N vig kills in anyones hands was likely imbalanced, so I guessed that WP was the vig and was not activated until he got the sword hence a limited vig.
Fortunately, I decided my odds on survival (esp with people wanting to policy vig/cop me) were not that great, and So I tried to see what trouble I could make while I was alive and yet look like normal towny me.
I did Ok...

Not @WP.
BTW on the topic of policy kills....
nah actually who you choose to policy and why is your own silly affair.

I would however suggest it is quite bad karma to replace into a game then claim you are policing shooting someone out of it because they make _you_ play apathetically.... (bats and balls and things comes to mind)
Sooooo... you replace into games with the intention and expectation of being apathetic? That is Bad Karma all round not just at one person.
Also its awful damn convenient next time you are scum and I am town, and I find as many of your team mates as I did last time we played together. Also rather odd you would want to policy someone who was recently was killed ahead of a claimed power role by your own scum team mate. As I said what you choose to do is not my problem.

AxleGreaser · Post Post #1348 (isolation #58) » Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:30 pm

Oh and my best reading of the posts and setup info is, DDD got the sword by RNG... 3/13 times scum would have had the sword N1.

AxleGreaser · Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:19 pm

oops also misremembered something, sword cant be given back to the person that gave it to you not can never be given back to that person.
needs a circle of 3...