Open 647: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[Chip Butty]

VOTE: Cakez, he's totally the serial killer, guys.

VOTE: podoboq because there is no SK in this setup.

Well, that was easy.

[Chip Butty]

Link to previous game? Would like to do some research.

I actually like my vote on this guy. Not only is there the "Look at me! I want to do research! I'm so Town!" angle, but it's also lazy. Assuming the "previous game" is the failed one Open 640, it's not hard to work that out.

[Chip Butty]

What N-0 cop claim?

VOTE: Wake

Night 0 cop, I have a guilty on Wake.

It was a gambit, but people actually followed it for several pages, which I think is kind of hilarious.

For the record, the game you are looking for is this one: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=66642

Yeah, the point I made is not so heavy but, hey, the game was stalling...

[Chip Butty]

^ i.e. Open 640. Dave wasn't Mod. The Mod was thisismyusername, who abandoned the game after making a moderr.

[Chip Butty]

Thank you sir, I have an excellent view of all the scum from up on this wagon.

Don't worry this wagon isn't to get you lynched.

O ho ho! Reassuring your scumbuddy, huh?

[Chip Butty]

I believe in fast high pressure wagons,

If you believe in high-pressure wagons, why did you take the pressure off by telling karnos the wagon wasn't to get him lynched?

PS: Sorry to hear about your dog.

[Chip Butty]

and an inconsistency worth owning up to.

Hate to be that guy, man, but that looks an awful lot like coaching.

[Chip Butty]

and an inconsistency worth owning up to.

Hate to be that guy, man, but that looks an awful lot like coaching.

No, I'm saying that he should have owned up to it. He didn't. He defended the inconsistency, and it's the fact that he didn't own up to it that's a problem.

WTF? I made the point about taking pressure of in #50. #51 was unrelated, from Karnos. And that quote I said could have been coaching was in #52. Shooty didn't reply at all to #50, but you say he defended the inconsistency??? That's BS, pure and simple.

Now you are definitely on my scumdar.

[Chip Butty]

What's pinging me about 27 is that I'm being talked to in a way (tone wise) that usually only comes about when someone has a strong town read on me later in the game. There's of course no way to know I'm town yet, unless you are scum. I also don't like the "it's a really good catch" part (feels like a buddy) but then saying it's not worthy of a vote. But then unless you give content he's highly inclined to vote. It feels like he doesn't have a real opinion, but he's trying to make it seem like he does.

I didn't mind the first part of the post too much - it looked like he thought you misunderstood my point and actually explained what I had in mind quite well.

But, yeah - the "really good catch" part doesn't sit right. Not only possible buddying, but he was also making too big a deal of it. It wasn't a "really good catch", it was just a pedestrian observation to help get the game going when it was stalling. Like MC said, if it is such a good catch, why not worthy of a vote? I'm not saying that what I pointed out is nothing, mind you - pod is on my scumdar for other stuff too.

[Chip Butty]

Imo Maruchan did well to get this game rolling. You could at the very least be a tad grateful. I dislike Sircakez calling it a big ball of fluff when literally it's one of the only posts made thus far that has attempted to progress the game. Why is Maruchan a big ball of fluff but nobody else is?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SirCakez

<ahem> Maruchan was responding to my post finding pod suspicious, so technically

I

got the game rolling. You're welcome.

I agree with you about Cakez, though - up to a point. Maruchan's post didn't strike me as fluff - I had problems with it for other reasons (see above). Don't know that Cakez' comment was exactly voteworthy, though. OTOH, it's a slow game, so why not?

[Chip Butty]

Agree with the above, and...

SirCakez was scum in the original roll open 640. The *only* scum from 640 who made it into the re-roll. What are the chances that he pulled scum again?

VOTE: SirCakez

Are you trying to plunge us back into RVS? It was hard enough to crawl out the first time...I'm pretty sure you don't believe this reasoning. Not saying you are being scummy, but I know you like capers...

[Chip Butty]

Sigh my dog just died so you can look it up your self, I believe in fast high pressure wagons, blah blah blah, watch how the machine works in response to all input, blah blah blah, I do this most games, and it's not a scum tell, blah blah blah.

Sorry to hear about the dog, VOTE: DrMyShotyIzSuj. Does that have some relevance to the game? I've noticed that scum are not beneath using any and every thing to obfuscate with pathos.

I hate this. At best, it is reachy. At worst, it is insensitive and a bit non-sensical. I mean, how many times do you think a player could pull a stunt like that, if that is what it is (Hint: it isn't)? And it seems to be saying something terrible about Shotty as a person, and I don't think there is any call for that.

I'm not Townreading Shotty, but I really doubt he would stoop to fabricating a story about the death of his dog just to get sympathy. He's not even in a really tight spot (yet).

[Chip Butty]

Well, your vote on Cakez seems a bit reachy; like I said in #74, I don't think Cakez's comments on Maruchan were voteworthy. And like I also said, the game is a bit slow, so I think I can see why you are voting him - it's like a semi-RVS vote, right?

I'm still happy with my vote on pod. It's not an RVS vote any more, as I think I said somewhere. I have more to say about an issue I have already raised with him, but it will have to wait until later.

[Chip Butty]

2. Saying pointing out someone's good catch's is buddying. So we're all independently scummhunting here? there's no group cohesion?

Mod go ahead and close the topic, we don't need it anymore. We can scumhunt without the rest of these fools, on our own. That whole group-process to finding scum is overhyped apparently

(I guess I wasn't done with the sarcasm). Pointing out that you didn't notice something, that someone else did, and that you agree with it, encourages more content from them. It's a concept called positive reinforcement. Think of potty training a dog. I'll give three examples that are the most similar to ways I could have reacted to someone else posting good content. So, I have a new dog I'm trying to pottytrain. he goes pee in the house. Lets take option 1. Ignore it and not give positive or negative reinforcement. He has no lesson to learn one way or the other as I haven't given him a lesson. He continues to pee in the house. He pees outside. We take Option 1 again and not give a positive or negative reaction. He never gets pottytrained nad he keeps peeing inside and outside, both good and bad actions, and he never becomes a better dog. Skip to option 2. He pees inside. You scold him. You punish him. You've negatively reinforced the behavior. He goes pee outside, no reaction. He's confused. He knows you DON'T want him peeing inside, but doesn't know that you DO want him peeing outside. Maybe he thinks he just cant pee in that room, and he tries another room, still a bad action. eventually by process of elimination, he will learn that the only thing that is not negatively-reinforced is the outside. the one good option. this takes forever. Skip to option 3. He goes pee inside. You do nothing. he doesn't stop peeing inside, no lesson learned. he pees outside. you give him a treat. he goes ecstatic over that treat and wants to learn how to get more. he goes pee inside again and gets no treat. he gets a treat when he goes pee outside. OH SHIT. He's just learned the quickest way to get treats is to pee outside, and he IMMEDIATELY ceases peeing inside, because he wants fuckin treats yo! You've just pottytraiend your dog.


of coruse the most efficient way is to combine postive and negative reinforcement to back each other up, BUT IF YO UCOULD ONLY postive OR ignore OR negative, the best thign is to positive.

same thing to player participation in a game. You keep telling them they are doing the right thing, you appreciate their efforts, you want them to continue trying, you'll get good engaged, players who actively try to scumhunt.
you just keep telling them when they are wrong, they get apathetic, they lurkmoar, they proddodge, they resent you, the game stagnantes.


I think telling someone they made a Good!Post, is the best option here yeah? Not buddying. Encouraging pro-town behavior.

Sooooooo....you're saying I am like a puppy you are training? Maybe you can train me to salivate when you ring a bell.

More seriously, this does look like an overreaction to me. I mean, a whole rant about puppy training just because I pointed out an over-the-top endorsement of a point I made? Are you Cesar Millan?

[Chip Butty]

Why don't you vote SirCakez Chip? Your vote is still RVS and you've brought up some relatively good reasons to be voting elsewhere..

UNVOTE:
VOTE: podoboq

Why the change? Jumping onto a convenient wagon?

[Chip Butty]

Incidentally, when Smithereens posted #75, my vote was already on podo. So he's asking me there to take my vote off podo, and then later votes podo himself, with no explanation.

[Chip Butty]

Agree with the above, and...

SirCakez was scum in the original roll open 640. The *only* scum from 640 who made it into the re-roll. What are the chances that he pulled scum again?

VOTE: SirCakez

VOTE: karnos
I was waiting for something....else, but no, this is still it. There needs to be some pressure on karnos to make him actually participate, because this doesn't count.

This is a good post. We were starting to slowly pull ourselves out of RVS at that point, and here comes Karnos rolling back in with a "Hey have some RVS bishes!" post, and no help to the game at all. He tries to throw a shred of validity on it by WIFOMing "what are the odds" of back to back scum rolls. Which in a game of exactly the same setup, the odds of back to back scum roles,

are the exact same odds of any single one of us rolling scum

because each game is played in a bubble, so outside factors do not place any pressure on the pure randomness of each game.

I think Maru's tone is a bit better here, but I want to point out that neither his nor podo's comments on karnos' #63 were exactly original. I was there first in #73, although we reached different conclusions (Well, I didn't really reach a conclusion):

Agree with the above, and...

SirCakez was scum in the original roll open 640. The *only* scum from 640 who made it into the re-roll. What are the chances that he pulled scum again?

VOTE: SirCakez

Are you trying to plunge us back into RVS? It was hard enough to crawl out the first time...I'm pretty sure you don't believe this reasoning. Not saying you are being scummy, but I know you like capers...

Also, re:probability, I think what Maru is trying to say is that, given game A followed by game B:

prob(player.scum(Game B)) = prob(player.scum(Game A and Game B, given player.scum(Game A)). Or something.

That's all I have time for now. Prob won't post again for 8-10 hours, at least.

[Chip Butty]

Thank you sir, I have an excellent view of all the scum from up on this wagon.

Don't worry this wagon isn't to get you lynched.

Don't worry this wagon isn't to get you lynched.

This is weird.

Thank you sir, I have an excellent view of all the scum from up on this wagon.

Don't worry this wagon isn't to get you lynched.

O ho ho! Reassuring your scumbuddy, huh?

Sigh my dog just died so you can look it up your self, I believe in fast high pressure wagons, blah blah blah, watch how the machine works in response to all input, blah blah blah, I do this most games, and it's not a scum tell, blah blah blah.

I believe in fast high pressure wagons,

If you believe in high-pressure wagons, why did you take the pressure off by telling karnos the wagon wasn't to get him lynched?

PS: Sorry to hear about your dog.

If you believe in high-pressure wagons, why did you take the pressure off by telling karnos the wagon wasn't to get him lynched?

I'm with Chip on this. If your strategy is too play so aggro that it riles people up, and gets people to say something they might not have without pressure, the last thing you want to do is release that pressure. I don't think that it's scum reassuring scum, like Chip implied earlier, but I do think it's an inconsistency.

It's probably excusable, all things considered (I've lost dog family, too, man. It hurts), but it's still an inconsistency worth pointing out, and an inconsistency worth owning up to.

and an inconsistency worth owning up to.

Hate to be that guy, man, but that looks an awful lot like coaching.

and an inconsistency worth owning up to.

Hate to be that guy, man, but that looks an awful lot like coaching.

No, I'm saying that he should have owned up to it. He didn't. He defended the inconsistency, and it's the fact that he didn't own up to it that's a problem.

Also, judging by your other posts, I think you actually like being that guy.

and an inconsistency worth owning up to.

Hate to be that guy, man, but that looks an awful lot like coaching.

No, I'm saying that he should have owned up to it. He didn't. He defended the inconsistency, and it's the fact that he didn't own up to it that's a problem.

WTF? I made the point about taking pressure of in #50. #51 was unrelated, from Karnos. And that quote I said could have been coaching was in #52. Shooty didn't reply at all to #50, but you say he defended the inconsistency??? That's BS, pure and simple.

Now you are definitely on my scumdar.

Sigh my dog just died so you can look it up your self, I believe in fast high pressure wagons, blah blah blah, watch how the machine works in response to all input, blah blah blah, I do this most games, and it's not a scum tell, blah blah blah.

He defends his weirdness by saying that he plays by making high pressure wagons, doesn't note the inconsistency in that statement, and doesn't own up to it. Like, I get that he hasn't talked more since then, but he should have said at some point in there "You're right, I shouldn't have told him not to worry about it, because that's inconsistent with my apparent strategy." Nothing new has come out since this post except us pointing out that it's inconsistent. We shouldn't have to explain that to him. He should recognize it on his own.

For what it matters, I'm going to keep assuming that this is a misunderstanding on your part, rather than scum trying to throw shit everywhere hoping it sticks somewhere.

Okay, I've reread this sequence a few times and I see what you are saying in #54 and #56 now - This, if I am reading you right: "Shotty was inconsistent in his #48 and he should have noted that, even though he believes in high pressure wagons, he had relieved the pressure on karnos".

I thought you had slipped by saying Shotty had defended himself after 348, when he hadn't in fact posted more. So, okay.

I guess where this leaves me on you is that you say you weren't coaching, but I still think it is possible that you were. Moving on, for now...

[Chip Butty]

* "...defended himself after #48..." ^

[Chip Butty]

Thank you sir, I have an excellent view of all the scum from up on this wagon.

Don't worry this wagon isn't to get you lynched.

Sigh my dog just died so you can look it up your self,

I believe in fast high pressure wagons

, blah blah blah, watch how the machine works in response to all input, blah blah blah, I do this most games, and it's not a scum tell, blah blah blah.

Shotty, I know your dog had just died at this point in time, but you never did go back and explain this inconsistency, even though podo

coached

advised you to do so.

And, frankly, even though I am trying to give you a break because of the demise of your canine friend, your ISO sucks. Since you haven't asked to replace out, I'm going to assume you're okay to play.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SHOTTY

[Chip Butty]

Prodge. Sorry, had a bad headache most of yesterday, plus busy and generally wasn't in the mood for Mafia. Think I only posted (minimally) in two of my games. I'm getting a Townish feel from Dix. Given the level of interest in podo from Penguin, Ranger, Anen, and my own earlier suspicions, will have to look at him again. And, finally, survey the rest of the field. Have been a bit slack in this game because it has been moving so slowly. More later.

[Chip Butty]

Okay, time to do some catching up, while I have a chance...

First, this sequence disturbs me, particularly with regard to Smithereens. I'm also seeing Shotty as scummish, so I want to remember their interaction here...

Why don't you vote SirCakez Chip? Your vote is still RVS and you've brought up some relatively good reasons to be voting elsewhere..

UNVOTE:
VOTE: podoboq

Why the change? Jumping onto a convenient wagon?

Incidentally, when Smithereens posted #75, my vote was already on podo. So he's asking me there to take my vote off podo, and then later votes podo himself, with no explanation.

The initial jump to podo that caught my attention, as naked votes out of the blue tend to do...

Fair enough response to tilt me over the fence.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: podoboq

PP votes podo, had already posted earlier that he was thinking about it...Not awful, but doesn't announce L-1...

L-1

We are either all on scum or there's scum on the wagon. So let's figure out if podo is legit scum or if some of the votes look sketchy.

...but MC does that. Seems like a sensible post.

Yeah, that wagon was pretty damn fast, there is probably scum pushing it.

All the same , I want to see podoboq's response before I consider change my vote.

In my experience, this fits with Town.karnos' thinking.

My vote looks sketchy~~

I had an irresistible urge to just lynch a fucker, I'm not gonna lie to you :3 I'm awful.

There's still time to unvote him and lynch someone else though...

Why is he worried about how his vote

looks

? Town worries about whether their vote is on scum. Also, his reference to the awfulness of his vote seems too self-conscious...

UNVOTE:

woah, l-1 legit on page 6? No no no, I'm not saying podo isn't scum but it seems more likely that this is a scum driven wagon. Could be both.

p-edit,
that post looked worse than your vote

This particular post from Shotty doesn't look too bad. Will have to go back and look at his ISO again...

interestinggg.....

UNVOTE:
VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

well I'm happy with this.

Seems like a manufactured reason to vote Shotty. Probably panicking a little here, realizing just how bad his vote on podo looks.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

well I'm happy with this.

Why, being happy isn't reasoning.

"woah, l-1 legit on page 6? No no no, I'm not saying podo isn't scum but it seems more likely that this is a scum driven wagon. Could be both."

if this isn't a guilty mindset that betrays you already knew you were voting a townie, Idk what is.

I'd like to get more explanation of this last line from Smithereens...

On the basis of this sequence alone, I am inclined to think Smithereens is scum, but will look at his entire ISO before deciding.

[Chip Butty]

I'm thinking Maruchan is prob Town now. Lots of strong opinions, little or no fence-sitting. And, looking back, that rant about puppy training was too bizarre to come from scum, I think. At least, I've never seen scum try anything like that. I'm also liking that he is talking about lynching within Smithereens, Ranger, Shotty, although I need to look at all three more before deciding. Don't agree that Transcend is a strong Townread, though.

[Chip Butty]

@Maruchan: I get that you have limited internet access and all, but do you really need to wallpost I mean, within that onse session you get a day, couldn't you make several smaller posts, rather than one big one? Would make your stuff easier to read.

[Chip Butty]

So much for catching up. Got stuff to do now, more in about 12 hours, prob.

[Chip Butty]

Mind explaining the Karnos read a bit more if you are sticking to it?

Out of the more than 20 games I've played with him previously, he is only ever this quiet when he is scum. I'd like to hear from in before changing my vote.

UNVOTE:

Need to re-read this thread...I'm torn between Smithereens due to what karnos said above, and Ranger because I just cannot believe that after 100 more posts, he reads remain unchanged given some of the exchanges.

Is karnos now posting at a Town AI level, in your opinion? Because you seem to have dropped this without a word?

And in the second quote, you say you are influenced by karnos' read on Smithereens, yet you didn't say anything positive about him since having your (RVS-then-non-RVS) vote on him. What's up withh that?

[Chip Butty]

F-cking town: Murdercat, ChipButty, Karnos
Townish: SirCakez, Smithereens, Ranger
No idea yet: Transcend, DixC
Ghhhhhhh: Maruchan, Shotty
Scummy and needs to meet pigeons: Penguin, Podoboq

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Podoboq

I'm rating Anen nullTown for now. I don't know if this is just me, but I am struggling a bit in this game. By this stage I usually have a few players I have strong reads on - either Town or scum - but so far I haven't been able to really get a handle on what is going on here. Even Shotty is only a moderate scumread for me atm. Part of that is because I haven't put enough time in, so hopefully get it together here fairly soon.

I don't agree with all of Anen's reads here but I don't think any of them are awful. He's pushing podo fairly consistently, and I think it goes beyond possible distancing, so I don't think they will be scum together. Of the players on the scummy end of his list, I agree Shotty, and can understand the others. Maruchan is Townish for me, but I can understand the opposite view.

On the top end, I don't think I would have anyone in top tier yet - or, to put it another way, my top tier would just be moderate nullTown. I think Anen has Smithereens too high, still need to look more at the others.

[Chip Butty]

Why aren't you happy with the Smithereens wagon?

Because it has people I'm suspicious of on it, while being on a player I do not find suspicious.

If lynch within smithereens ranger and shotty at this point

...Find a townflip guaranteed, we will!
{karnos, Aneninen}
{SirCakez, Smithereens}
{shotty, Chip Butty, Murdercat}
{DixC}
{Maruchan, Transcend}
{podoboq, PenguinPower}

F-cking town: Murdercat, ChipButty, Karnos
Townish: SirCakez, Smithereens, Ranger
No idea yet: Transcend, DixC
Ghhhhhhh: Maruchan, Shotty
Scummy and needs to meet pigeons: Penguin, Podoboq

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Podoboq

On the basis of Ranger's readlist, which bears some similarity to Anen's, I'm nullTown reading her also. She hasn't posted enough for this to be a strong read, but I have found that in games where we are both Town, her rankings look quite similar to mine. I haven't completed doing my reads yet, but I would say of both Anen's and Ranger's lists that they look "the right side up".

Both Anen and Ranger are Townish on Cakes and karnos, so I'll look at them next. Will revisit Ranger when I've done those and Transcend, MC etc.

[Chip Butty]

Cakes has been V/LA for a while, which explains why he hasn't posted much. I don't see anything awful in his ISO. Will revisit when he has posted more. Not a priority for today.

[Chip Butty]

My vote on smithereens is feeling stale, time for a change.

WTH is this?

I finally unvote him, and then everyone else decides to hop on the wagon?

Need to re-read and review.

It has to be said that you gave a kind of nothing reason for moving on...

[Chip Butty]

LOL I just bumped the thread but I have no idea how I did it...

[Chip Butty]

Okay, just quickly skimmed through to catch up. This game has certainly got weird of a sudden. Please don't hammer, at least until I can read through more carefully.

[Chip Butty]

I don't want to lynch Smithereens today. Hate Town self-votes though. I'm inclined to vote Dix or leave my vote where it is. Don't have time to post why right now, prob in about 12 hours. Transcend, don't know. will have to go over that again.

[Chip Butty]

Also, I'll look at Maruchan again to see if I think he really did slip.

[Chip Butty]

Pretty confident about Trans as town now.

That was my first impression, reading through. But I'm v. tired now and I don't do good reads when I'm tired...

[Chip Butty]

it's possible that this is a plan communicated between the two over day chat.

Do we know this setup has or does not have day chat? I looked but didn't see. Is this a slip?

It's a guess. The way he unvoted the wagon looks like potential daychatting scum to me. If it's scummy, it's too coordinated to be otherwise. I've yet to play a game here without day chat, but as I've learned in another game recently, I think mods are supposed to make that public knowledge.

@davesas: Does mafia have daychat in this game?

Scum only have night talk; it's in the sample Role-PMs:

Mafia Goon

Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a

Mafia Goon

, along with your partners, [Player Name] and [Player Name].
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the

night phase

you may talk with your partner here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partner may perform the factional kill.
Setup Information: You know that there are exactly X number of Docs in the game and Y number of Cops.
Win condition:
You win when all members of the town have been eliminated or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

[Chip Butty]

ChipButty, your vote on shotty is a vanity wagon at this point.

Not so much a vanity wagon as a procrastination wagon, in that I was hoping Smithereens would stop being weird and put his vote on who he thinks is scum, rather than himself. It MIGHT be a scum ploy on his part, but I'm thinking prob not.
@Smithereens: If you are Town, you need to shift your vote off yourself, because self-voting is NOT proTown. Consider this: if mislynching you is proTown, Mafia would avoid it, and we would have the ridiculous situation of a Town being mislynched by only Town. I'm by no means sure of Maruchan's alignment, and scum.Maru might well be using this issue as cover for a vote against you, but I do think he is right about this issue. If you don't want to play in this game, as you have implied, request to replace out.

People on my or Maru's wagons, you should probably just pick one, and take it to L-1. I already made the argument for how we're almost definitely the same alignment, (if one of us were scum, we would have joined the other's counterwagon regardless of Smith's alignment), so it shouldn't matter that much. Maru is V/LA, so putting him up is probably just going to waste our clock. So probably just vote me.

@podo: I don't think we need to buy that you and Maru are opposite alignments. That actually sounds like scum trying to protect themself/their scumbuddy in case one of them gets lynched. Having said that, you're not looking as scummy as you were earlier. If you and Smithereens are the only viable wagons as we get near deadline, I'll consider voting you to avoid a mislynch but other than that, I'm not enthusiastic.

[Chip Butty]

Chip..ugh. I'll explain in end game. Suffice to say I know what to do with my vote and no I don't actually feel the need to commit suicide. I think you're just catching up though.

Yeah, and my connection got reset while I was writing my last post, so I missed a whole lot of Ninjas...

I haven't completed a game with you yet, and I've seen a couple of Town self-votes recently, including a Town self-hammer, so I was a bit worried you were going to persist with that. At any rate, I did want that to be resolved before deciding where to shift my vote. So, all good now..

[Chip Butty]

Where do you think we should be voting though Chip?

See where my vote is? There.

[Chip Butty]

#605 ^

"...I'll consider voting you to avoid a

no-

lynch but other than that, I'm not enthusiastic."

[Chip Butty]

Chip Butty that wagon... clearly isn't going to happen >.>

Yeah, looks that way...but I'm not that keen on podo or you.

Looks like I have some re-reading to do...

[Chip Butty]

There are still a few players I haven't taken a solid look at yet. I now have a couple games in night phase, you should have more time for this.

[Chip Butty]

You're misunderstanding me. I'm saying the opposite. Maru and I almost certainly must be the

same

alignment.

Chipderp. My mind isn't even nearly 100% on this right now, and in fact I have to go take care of something. Be back to reread in a few hours with any luck...

[Chip Butty]

L-1 by my count. I'm still not so happy with either of the leading wagons but will hammer if we need my vote close to deadline. For now I am going to hold off to see if we get an extension for the Maruchan sub, and to hear from the replacement if possible. Sorry, I was intending to do a heavy re-read but got diverted by RL. Will try to get onto that soonish.

[Chip Butty]

UNVOTE:
I don't see podo scum claiming n5 cop

Why is the claim of all things what convinced you?

I don't think podo is scum for other reasons, but you should know everyone is going to claim either doc or cop, and claiming a late night is the perfect scum cover because they won't have to share results until the game is likely over.

UNVOTE:
I don't see podo scum claiming n5 cop

May I present to you the safest scum claim:

COP N5

They already know every affiliation, and by claiming night 5, they might not even get to use their role. Podo even revealed that that was his thought process.

I've been thinking along these lines too, but I think N5 Doc would be an even safer claim. WIFOM: But, then, scum might be reluctant to claim the very safest claim simply because it is way too obvious, so yeah claim N5 Cop. And Shotty's comment doesn't do anything to make me think my vote on him is misplaced.

[Chip Butty]

I'm still thinking podo is probTown, but his claim doesn't add to that, and actually makes me a little less confident about him.

[Chip Butty]

Don't worry guys, you can shit all over me if it goes wrong, just put your votes on with confidence~

Podo -> Trans -> Maru -> Aneninen. Use this flow chart in case I die tonight. Maru and Trans are interchangable

. Avoid introducing new names into the lynch pool without objective scum tells or

the approval of Ranger

.

My scum reads are irrelevant

. My controversial actions stirred up enough people to drop a deliciously large amount of AI material for us to read through. I'm happy with the results, you would be happy too if only you were town.

I've dropped the assumption that my reads are correct.

What are we left with? Pages of posts you've made that betray everything from your desire to lynch a person you've prior recognised as town to you attempting to reach for more reasons to substantiate a scum read that was falling apart.

And not just on you, Trans and Maru have dug themselves into pits as well.

Smithereens, you are confusing the fuck out of me. You seem def on your scum reads but see the bits in pink. And are you saying you def read Ranger as Town? Why? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but I need to see reasons.

[Chip Butty]

If it comes down to the wire and I need to vote either podo or Smithereens to get a lynch, I think I would prefer the latter atm. I want to see his reply, though...

[Chip Butty]

Yeah, and I see Shotty switching between wagons. If podo/Smithereens is t/t and Shotty is scum, he doesn't care which wagon goes through...

[Chip Butty]

He just needs to

look like

he gives a shit who gets lynched between them.

[Chip Butty]

Oi, you're not reading. Podo asked me to pretend for a moment that my reads were irrelevant, and while I don't believe that to be the case, for that conversation I told him 'let's pretend my reads don't mean anything.'

Of course I don't subscribe to this position. You could read that clearly from the posts. So why did you create this? ^^

No, I AM reading. You say you are dropping the assumption your reads are accurate, but then - based on the input of podo, Maru, Trans - you read them as scummy, IN THE VERY SAME POST. That is what is confusing me.

[Chip Butty]

How can you say those three have dug themselves into a pit, unless it is on the basis of you reading them? Which means you have not dropped the assumption your reads are correct, at all.

[Chip Butty]

I can live with a Penguin lynch, since it isn't going to be Shotty and I don't want to lynch podo today. I've looked through his short ISO several times and he is nullscum for me, so not a terribly strong scumread. A better lynch than the viable alternatives.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: PenguinPower

L-2

Vote edited for counter.

[Chip Butty]

And, yes, I am aware this wagon is building quickly, but with less than 24 hours on the clock, I'm not too worried about that.

[Chip Butty]

Where I'm at:

probTown: Anen, MC
nullTown: karnos, podo
nullishnullTown: Dix
nullish: Ranger, Cakez, Maruchan/Dunn, Trans, Smithereens
nullscum: Penguin
probscum: Shotty

[Chip Butty]

Calling it now for post game gloating:

{DixC, Penguin, Shotty}

I too think Shotty's scum.
Conflicted on Podoboq. Because of his lame claim and the whole Smith/Podoboq situation. (In case of one town, one scum there, there would have been a lynch by now.)

I'm not sure whether we're doing the right thing but a NoLynch would definitely be worse.

MC and Anen: If you think Shotty is scum, how come you wouldn't vote him with me, but jumped on the Penguin wagon right away?

[Chip Butty]

I don't think the Shotty case is all that super-strong, but I have been voting him for a long time and no-one joined me (and stayed). Then as soon as the Penguin wagon started it moved really fast. It just strikes me as a little odd. @Anen: The Penguin wagon started from nothing and moved really fast, so I guess it could happen with Shotty too. BUT, it's well less than 24 hours now, and there's nothing in Penguin's ISO that screams Town, so we might as well continue with it, I guess.

[Chip Butty]

claim please

Not for you. Nothing for you or podo.

What does it matter who asks? Everyone will read what you say, regardless...

[Chip Butty]

Extension is good, have just done a quick re-read. Will go through stuff a bit more carefully and decide what I want to do. For now:

UNVOTE:

@Dix: what is a "fundament-based chapeau"?

[Chip Butty]

1/3 chance of

4 Docs/6 Cops

, 1/3 5 Docs/5 Cops, 1/3

4 Docs/6 Cops

Mafia know how many Docs/Cops but not which night
Town roles are individually randomized night 1-5 with equal probability
Role is flipped but not what night.
Investigations return town/mafia but not role or night.

@Mod, is this correct?

should be flipped, 6/4 for the last one

Bit harsh to flip him for a typo...

It's a joke

[Chip Butty]

[Chip Butty, Karnos, Transcend, Smithereens, DixC]
[SirCakez, podoboq, drmyshottyizsuk]
[Aneninen, MURDERCAT, PenguinPower]
[Ranger]

Not lynching smithereens/podoboq today please

Ranger's reads are really bad

VOTE: Ranger

Aneninen/MURDERCAT/PenguinPower all scummy

The top tier there is leantown

[Chip Butty, Karnos, Transcend, Smithereens, DixC]
[SirCakez, podoboq, drmyshottyizsuk]
[Aneninen, PenguinPower]
[Ranger, MURDERCAT]

I want Ranger or Murdercat today, let's flip the votes, what you guys have going here is terrible

what's up with the vanity vote on Ranger?

podoboq is town

smithereens is maybe maybe

Ranger is mafia

Care to join me?

^^^ So I've changed my mind basically, still don't really want to get smith as opposed to ranger

who else you got?

Ranger

VOTE: Ranger

Let's flip this.

Or at least I can see who won't

VOTE: Ranger

Lol just noticed

Ranger
MURDERCAT probably

I'd settle for lynching drshotty too if we can make that happen (that also seem slike the most likely)

I mean

I want Ranger still

I can't see myself voting Smithereens or podo today, didn't like those wagons. Penguin maybe - if I saw him at L-1, I might hammer, especially if we get close to deadline again. I'm thinking Anen and MC are probTown. Dunstral I can def vote. Maruchan wasn't too bad in the slot but Dunstral's been pushing various lynches while giving very little in the way of reasons. And he has been chopping and changing without giving sufficient reason, too. In fact, we need time to get a claim and discuss it, etc. so let's go:

VOTE: Dunnstral

I'll follow up with some stuff I've spotted in his ISO...

Tags fixed, they confused the vote counter.

[Chip Butty]

LOL, I got distracted by something and forgot I had already quoted stuff from Dunstral's ISO. ^

[Chip Butty]

@Mod: My vote is on Dunnstral... (#963)

[Chip Butty]

Prodge. Okay just read through the last six or so pages. Need to go do something, will post thoughts in a few hours.

Sorry everyone, been limited for time, so focussed on another, very active, game, and have had connection issues as well.

[Chip Butty]

VOTE: Dunn

YO YO

Slow down

Don't do this to me

Actually




Transcend might be mafia this game

Don't like this sequence.

[Chip Butty]

frustrated by the Smithereens flip

Hmmm...

[Chip Butty]

Oh and about that readslist.

{Murdercat}
{karnos, Aneninen, Persivul, Chip Butty}
{DixC, podoboq, PenguinPower}
{SirCakez}
{Dunnstral, Transcend}
Something like this? Basically, Murdercat is confirmed town, Dunnstral and Transcend are both definitely scum, SirCakez is heavily my candidate for the third and basically the rest of the playerlist literally doesn't matter at all.

There's nothing too wrong with this list, I think. I think Trans is prob dumb, not scum. Would maybe swap Cakez and Dix, but not much in it. Persivul's is too high up, imo - that's the Shotty slot, of which I am still suspicious. Thinking Ranger is

proooobably

Town here. So I'd be more like:

{Murdercat}
{karnos, Aneninen, Ranger}
{podo, Penguin, Cakez, Trans}
{Dix}
{Dunnstral}

[Chip Butty]

Whoops, forgot someone...

{Murdercat}
{karnos, Aneninen, Ranger}
{podo, Penguin, Cakez, Trans}
{Dix, Persivul}
{Dunnstral}

[Chip Butty]

The trouble is, I am not sure if Dunstrall is really scum or just dumb Town who continually spams Town into following him down the wrong path (based on this and another game I can't talk about).

[Chip Butty]

Actually, I',m gonna move Trans down a notch:

{Murdercat}
{karnos, Aneninen, Ranger}
{podo, Penguin, Cakez}
{Dix, Persivul, Trans}
{Dunnstral}

Yeah, that's better...

[Chip Butty]

Transcend

might

be town though

Why not come start a DixC wagon? Pretty sure he's blatant scum

Dunnstral is scum and trying to form a counter wagon hard.
Xheck the posts nearby too.

This.

[Chip Butty]

Are you caught up?

Yeah, I think so. Don't want to lynch anyone claiming an N2 role today.

[Chip Butty]

Just because I quickhammered town doesn't make me scum transcenderoni

[Chip Butty]

What do you think of my cake/DixC association?

I can't say I am feeling it strongly atm, but yes a possibility. Could be scum distancing or just genuine mutual suspicion. I think we need to hear more from each about their interactions.

[Chip Butty]

I'm also coincidentally a n2 cop

Makes sense that I'd want other people lynched instead of me, huh?

If smith is town I'd like to request a night 2 cop on me...

So, he's claiming N2 cop and also requesting N2 cop on him? Yes, it IS possible in this setup, but still...

[Chip Butty]

^backing of until we hear from others (perhaps more N1 cops/docs?)
VOTE: SirCakez

@MC: Dix does actually vote Cakez here. You quoted this post earlier, so how come you are not aware of this?

[Chip Butty]

im town

I find this very convincing. Scum would never say this /sarcasm

[Chip Butty]

That's the biggest throwaway distance vote I've ever seen though. Dunn/DixC/Cake are all trying to get as far apart from each other as possible right now.

I think there is a chance you are right, but Dunn seems to be pushing Dix too hard for it to be mere distancing. I see you've voted Dunn. I'd be happy to do that were it not for his N2 Cop claim. And I'm reluctant to vote Dix simply because Dunn is pushing it so hard.

Ninja'd dunn. See what I mean?

[Chip Butty]

MC: Current thoughts about the Shotty/Persivul slot? Obv you clear it by POE, but do you think it is even a possibility this slot is scum?

Ninja'd MC: Yeah, we can just get them to each investigate a different scum, and morning D3 we'have the entire scumteam nailed LOL.

[Chip Butty]

I'm not a n2 cop

Okay, so there goes my only reason for not voting you.

VOTE: DUNSTRAL

[Chip Butty]

So the vote counter gets it:

VOTE: DUNNSTRAL

[Chip Butty]

Also, I missed that that was a joke.

I wasn't implying that Dunn's claim was a joke btw.

[Chip Butty]

It's easy from my point of view

We lynch DixC, then Aneninen, then Persivul, and if the game isn't over scumhunt or something

We just win if we cop/lynch all of Dix/Penguin/Transcend/Aneninen/Persivul

I don't think Dunn and Dix are scum together, but I could see Dunn and Cakez...and maybe Persivul/Shotty. I'll have to reread too...

[Chip Butty]

My reads so far:

{Murdercat}
{karnos, Aneninen, Ranger, podo}
{DixC, Persival}
{Cakez, Trans}
{Dunnstral}

I'm feeling left out...

[Chip Butty]

when dunn flips town I'mma slap all these people who are like "hurr durr cakez/dunn scum team"

Why should I town read dunnstral?

because his posting yesterday was transparently town
he's been kind of flaily today but I think he's town desperate to try to push his scumreads through over him

What about that hammer yesterday? Are you going to say that wasn't bad?

[Chip Butty]

because you started out the day being practically confscum

Uh, can you say a little more?

[Chip Butty]

About why you think Dunn is Town now...

[Chip Butty]

I was reading Shotty as scum, but then I always read Shotty as scum. His playstyle just seems scummy to me. Persivul doesn't seems so bad in that slot, but I am wary because I know his scum game is not easy to pick.

[Chip Butty]

I suck

Makes me wonder why I bothered saving your ass Not that it mattered in the end. Anyway, I was just as bad. This is now officially my worst-ever week in Mafia, by far. Hopefully I will return to form once whatever is afflicting me physically goes away.

I thought Ranger's claimed save on N1 was solid, so followed suit.

Incidentally, we should bear in mind that Doc claims should be taken with a grain of salt. I'm pretty sure Ranger's N1 claim was genuine, but something to keep in the backs of our minds...

[Chip Butty]

UNVOTE:

Let's see where we are:

N1:
Ranger claims doctor, protected murdercat, no kill N1.
Karnos claimed cop, innocent on podoboq

N2:
Transcend claimed cop, innocent on penguin

Claims plus flips:
Cop:

Smithers, DixC

, Karnos, Transcend
Doctor:

Dunnstral

, Ranger

Unclaimed: Persivul, Aneninen, Chip Butty, PenguinPower, MURDERCAT, SirCakez, podoboq

PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'VE MISSED SOMETHING

If we believe all claims:

Ranger, Murdercat, Karnos, Podoboq, Transcend, Penguin

Persivul, Aneninen, Chip Butty, SirCakez

We're at 7:3. If no doc saves, tomorrow is 5:3 mylo, then NL for 4:3 lylo.

We have 0 - 2 investigations remaining.

If we believe the claims, we lynch in {Persivul, Aneninen, Chip Butty, SirCakez} today.

VOTE: Chip Butty
Totally fenceshitty ISO.

Read my #1568 again. And I haven't been sitting on any fences - cite examples if you think so. I was early on podo's case but then decided probTown. I was suspicious of your slot when Shotty was in it but couldn't get support for his lynch on D1. Said that Smithereens shouldn't be lynched D1. Was strong on lynching Dunn D2.

But yeah, I do owe this game some quality time. You weren't around for the first part of the game, but it was very slow and I probably have been cruising a bit. Plus I really am having trouble getting clear reads in this game - like is Trans just horrible Town or scum?

MC, Ranger, Anen, karnos, podo seem Town to me atm.

You, Cakez and by POE I guess Trans are where I am looking for scum atm.

[Chip Butty]

Oh, and if Trans is scum, Penguin prob is too

[Chip Butty]

Also, I see no reason to believe all claims. I believe claims by those I don't find scummy. So I have doubts about Trans' claim. In fact, more pressure on Trans might be a good idea.

And it is interesting that Persivul voted Trans then jumped off quickly for no reason and posted so as to lead Town away from a Trans lynch...

VOTE: TRANS

[Chip Butty]

chip had the scummiest vote on me today.

well, I was writing you off as more likely just to be badTown but with Dunn gone I'm struggling a bit to get three solid scum candidates and your obsession with lynching Anen, who I read as probTown, just looks way over the top. I just read through his ISO again and I really don't see where you are getting that from. So my vote stays.

Persivul is in the Shotty slot, which was scummy to me - need to ISO Persi to see how he looks. But Persi was scum in Open 640 and I didn't pick him there (except with his final hammer) so...

Cakez is another one who I find hard to pick as scum. A possibility.

And since Trans is claiming to clear Penguin, I have to regard Penguin as possible scum too.

But this game has been kind of meh for me, since scum don't seem to be all that active; they're seemingly content to just sit back and let Town vote itself into oblivion.

[Chip Butty]

Karnos and podo are both town
Murder is town
Penguin is confirmed town

These are all true.
At this point, I want to lynch Transcend, then {Persivul, SirCakez}.
If Transcend is scum, that's good game.
If Transcend's town, there's one more, and by necessity, in {Aneninen, Chip Butty}. That's a bridge I'd very much like to cross only if we come to it.

While I do tend to think karnos, podo and MC are probTown, I think we need to bear in mind that claims are very easy to make in this setup, and we don't have any greenchecks from cops who have themselves flipped green. I don't regard anyone as confTown in this game.

[Chip Butty]

The unconfirmed are sircakez, chip butty, persivul, and anemeneni

What is wrong with you lot? Yet again, read 1568. That's a claim of N2 Doc saving MC.

[Chip Butty]

I don't feel the same about the other confirmed town, because your claim is easier to fake than rangers, for example (which required a no kill & no counterclaim).

Are you forgetting there can be more than one instance of any role-night? E.g. could be two or more N1 Docs. CCs don't count here, except for counting purposes.

[Chip Butty]

Ranger's claim can be faked because it came after it was already apparent there was no night kill. Even if another N1 Doc claimed to have saved MC as well, it wouldn't disprove Ranger's claim.

I did believe Ranger's claim, btw, but I just got burned by scum!Ranger in another game (as did you!) so I am a bit more wary of her now.

[Chip Butty]

The unconfirmed are sircakez, chip butty, persivul, and anemeneni

What is wrong with you lot? Yet again, read 1568. That's a claim of N2 Doc saving MC.

Missed that. So you're saying you protected MC when we had cop claims on the table...

LOL, yeah, not a great decision when you put it that way, but I wouldn't have put more than five seconds' thought into it at the time. Basically just followed Ranger's lead from N1. I can say though that I don't put much store in claims in this setup and maybe that's why I didn't recall their being cop claims on the table. My thought was just to protect the most confirmed Town we had. But, given Dix's flip, I guess you are right and I should have saved Dix.

[Chip Butty]

Chip's post count is way down from his town game.

In the just completed Open 644, chip made 348 posts in the first 2 game days. In this game, he made 87 in the first two game days.

Looking at it from a RL perspective: those 87 posts were made from 6.18 - 7.14 (my time). In that same period in Open 644, he made 206 posts.

The overall posting rate in that game was very high, whereas here it was very slow. If you've read through, you will have seen numerous comments from various players to that effect. Also, in Open 644, there were a few prolific posters that i was engaged with (ploben, Dunnstral, PantherPunt), and who I found kind of annoying, which boosted my post rate there. I have been more than happy to cruise in this game a bit since I am (was) playing in an unprecedented (for me) four games and it is clearly too much. I'm spending way more time on this site than I really want to, actually.

[Chip Butty]

If there is a N3 Cop, I'm perfectly happy to be investigated so Persi's mind can be set at rest (assuming he is Town).

[Chip Butty]

Chip- Being in the unconfirmed pile, I would consider voting Chip, but I just don't see the strong case on him. I don't see any of Chip's posts as particularly scummy,

How many of his posts are particularly townie? The charge apart from activity is fence-sitting, and no, fence-sitting posts don't look particularly scummy. That's why it's effective.

You keep accusing me of fence-sitting, but you refuse to furnish examples. In fact I have been doing anything BUT fence-sitting. I've already listed some of the strong stances I have taken so far.

As for posting, now that Open 644 has ended and my other games are all in night phase, I can focus on this one. I think we need to take a close look at you on the basis that you are in the Shotty slot and you didn't get picked up as scum in the ill-fated predeccessor game to this one, Open 640. You've made a lot of fine noises in this game, but what have you actually ACHIEVED that is Town? Nothing. In other words, your play fits the pattern you established in Open 640, which I encourage everyone to read: See if you can spot a difference between Persi here and scum!Persi in that game, because I can't.

[Chip Butty]

Persivul makes a decent point

Mind explaining what it is? All he seems to have said, as far as I can see, is that I haven't posted prolifically in what has been a very slow game, and a baseless accusation of fence-sitting...

[Chip Butty]

VOTE: Aneninen

Why Anen? I don't see where he has done anything perticularly scummy...

[Chip Butty]

Oh, okay...I thought you might have something more. Actually I need to revisit that, and re-evaluate.

[Chip Butty]

I mean, something more recent...Your post and your vote were kind of far apart from each other...

Ninja'd Anen

[Chip Butty]

What is wrong with you lot? Yet again, read 1568. That's a claim of N2 Doc saving MC.

There was a kill n2, your claim doesn't really hold much water.

True, but what I am not seeing is why you are coloring green several players whose claims are not substantiated, or who have been the targets of unsubstantiated investigations. You are in danger of makking some players undeservedly look confTown. I'm not saying that it is scummy at this point, but it could def hurt Town.

Though, it does make me curious, anyone done the math to see if it might be worth mass-claiming at this point? I know from the previous incarnation of the setup that it's a bad move to make on day 1, but with so many roles already outed maybe it would help us sort the remaining scum.

LIVING PLAYERS

Ranger - doc n1

SirCakez - ?

MURDERCAT (replaces MurderCat) - ?

karnos - cop n1

Aneninen - ?

Transcend - cop n2

Persivul (replaces drmyshottyizsik) - ?
Chip Butty - doc n2

PenguinPower - doc n3
podoboq - cop n5

Dead Players

Smithereens, Town Cop, was lynched Day 1.
Dunnstral, Town Doctor, was lynched Day 2.
DixC, Town Cop, was killed Night 2.

If all claims are true so far, we have 5 cops and 4 docs. That leaves one town cop or doc, and 3 scum. If the un-claiming players all claimed, it seems like it would be a pro-town result to me.

Actually, if we assume ranger's vouch for murdercat is legit, which I think we should, murdercat should be the LAST claim, as we know and trust he is town. This forces any scum in the unconfirmed players to pick roles before they know for sure what is potentially possible in the setup.

Is there ANY way this could hurt town? Don't start claiming unless the majority think it's a good idea, but a this point I think it makes sense.

[Chip Butty]

UNVOTE:

Let's see where we are:

N1:
Ranger claims doctor, protected murdercat, no kill N1.
Karnos claimed cop, innocent on podoboq

N2:
Transcend claimed cop, innocent on penguin

Claims plus flips:
Cop:

Smithers, DixC

, Karnos, Transcend
Doctor:

Dunnstral

, Ranger

Unclaimed: Persivul, Aneninen, Chip Butty, PenguinPower, MURDERCAT, SirCakez, podoboq

PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'VE MISSED SOMETHING

If we believe all claims:

Ranger, Murdercat, Karnos, Podoboq, Transcend, Penguin

Persivul, Aneninen, Chip Butty, SirCakez

We're at 7:3. If no doc saves, tomorrow is 5:3 mylo, then NL for 4:3 lylo.

We have 0 - 2 investigations remaining.

If we believe the claims, we lynch in {Persivul, Aneninen, Chip Butty, SirCakez} today.

VOTE: Chip Butty
Totally fenceshitty ISO.

And here is the original version of what karnos is doing. Sure, "if we believe all claims", but why should we believe them? They are for the most part unverified and unsubstantiated.

Is it coincidence that both are using this approach to throw shade on me?

[Chip Butty]

We need to lynch in the unclaimed pool today. If we're unsuccessful claimants can be on the table tomorrow. Part of the point of this setup is to use claims to narrow down the lynch pool.

That doesn't make sense. Unclaimed just tend to be the players with PRs later in the game. Anyone, Town or scum, is going to claim under pressure. So in the end there will be no unclaimed to lynch. And we don't necessarily want to force claims in advance, even just Cop/Doc without giving night, because it makes it easy for scum to pick off the remaining cops who haven't yet used their powers, given that their is no guaranteed Doc coverage on any given night.

[Chip Butty]

Responding to prod. Sorry been busy IRL. Will catch up soon. Agree with podo about Cakez and Persi need looking at (because Shotty slot)...I'll have to see if Anen has become scummier in my absence but he looked ok last time I looked...

[Chip Butty]

Updated for Cakez' claim:

LIVING PLAYERS
Ranger - doc n1
SirCakez - cop
MURDERCAT (replaces MurderCat) - doc
karnos - cop n1
Aneninen - doc
Transcend - cop n2
Persivul (replaces drmyshottyizsik) - doc
Chip Butty - doc n2
PenguinPower - doc n3
podoboq - cop n5

Dead Players
Smithereens, Town Cop, was lynched Day 1.
Dunnstral, Town Doctor, was lynched Day 2.
DixC, Town Cop, was killed Night 2.

6 cop; 7 doc.

We've got at least one mafia in the doc claims.

Possibilities are:

4 cop, 6 doc (i.e. 2 fake cops, 1 fake doc)
5 cop, 5 doc (i.e. 1 fake cop, 2 fake docs)
6 cop, 4 doc (i.e. 0 fake cops, 3[!] fake docs)

[Chip Butty]

because you're being a pain to push through

A lot of the resistance to Transcend's wagon seems to be coming from conf* town. This only seems like a pain in the ass if you're scum pushing for a mislynch.

i'm not paying attention to who's resisting it, I just know it's being way too hard to lynch

I'm a cop

I'm not quite seeing Trans as being as scummy as earlier - he's pushing Anen so hard he must know he is setting himself up for a lynch if Anen flips green, which I still kinda think he will (though I am becoming less sure as time wears on). But I don't see this as Trans bussing Anen either.

Meanwhile, looks like getting a claim from Cakez was like pulling teeth, although it could be for VLA-reasons. In light of the above, though, Cakez hard push on Trans has me wondering...

It's not much, but this game is dying yet again. Now that everyone has claimed, I'm not even sure what is the point of applying pressure anymore, but trying something is better than not doing anything, so

VOTE: CAKEZ

[Chip Butty]

yes, thank you for that useless information and not voting aneninen when he's flopping today like a pancake on an ihop grill.

granted, i'm pretty sure you're scum, but still.

The case on Anen just isn't strong enough to justify your death-tunnel on him. But I'm tempted to vote Anen just to see you eat your sock.

[Chip Butty]

This is just my second time in LYLO, and I kind of fucked up the first time, so not really all that sure what I am doing. I know the conventional logic is to no-lynch, and I guess I can live with that. But if we do lynch, I think it should be Persi. First, he is in the Shotty slot. Second, look at how he slipped onto the Anen wagon yesterday. Third, he is good at scumming, as I learned in Open 640.

I think Trans was prob too committed to the Anen wagon to be scum, but we should (1) enjoy watching him eat his sock and (2) stop listening to him. Second choice for scum would be Cakes, I guess. Third, no idea, but one step at a time. First step is to decide whether we are going to lynch or not.

[Chip Butty]

Prod response. Sorry, computer conked out on me.

Mod: V/LA until 10 August.

[Chip Butty]

I'll try to read up tomorrow...

[Chip Butty]

Sorry, computer conked out again almost as soon as I got it back. Hopefully will be okay now. Maybe time to buy a new one...

[Chip Butty]

Should be able to read up in a few hours...

[Chip Butty]

Should be able to read up in a few hours...

12 hours later...

Chip, come back to us! If you are town, we need you paying attention here, this is LYLO.

If you are scum.... it would be a lot more fun to play against active scum, rather than giving-up scum.

Yeah, I'm back. Was thinking of replacing out, but I think I should be able to be around now. Doing my re-read now...

[Chip Butty]

Ok, let's do this. Ranger looks like Stack The Deck scum!Ranger LOL

VOTE: RANGER

[Chip Butty]

Thanks for the game all. Thanks for Modding, daveaz.

Just so you all know, I wasn't faking about beng sick and having computer problems. That stuff was all real, and have been really busy IRL as well. Now not in any games. Will take a break until I have time to play again.

Reason I took a long time to hammer Ranger is I got called away before I could read through. As soon as I got back and read through the last few pages, I hammered.

[Chip Butty]

Well done karnos and cakez btw - sorry I couldn't have been more active over the last few weeks.

[Chip Butty]

Mafia, ok to release PT?

Pretty quiet in the dead thread.

Ok by me...